So this is a literotica written by a woman, that's being made into a movie that should come out pretty soon. The book has sold over 100 million copies worldwide and hearsay is that the writing is horrific by any standard.
And, the primary demographic for this book is married women in their 30s.
I've seen some responses against the book and the movie. But one thing I have not yet seen is someone saying, "don't treat men like objects."
Would someone explain to me why? I think I can remember a couple times in my life--to be fair--that I've heard this said to women as to why they shouldn't be lustful of men. Men get the spiel, "don't treat women like objects," and if that's supposedly SUCH an effective and motivating rebuke for men to avoid lust (I wouldn't list that as anywhere close to my main motivator) then why am I not hearing this being said anywhere REMOTELY so much to women when they demonstrate the same issue?
Explanation, please.
Is that what happens in the book, that men are treated like objects?
I just got very sad that so many people read the book, and that the lady who wrote such trash is now very rich. Shows the low morals the world has now.
Is that what happens in the book, that men are treated like objects?
I haven't read it--saw a few excerpts, know the basic story.
The book is written by a woman,
for women, for the sake of women's sexual gratification. So of course that means the existence of the male character in the sexual exchanges exists for that reason: women's sexual gratification.
: Cally Sun Nov 23, 2014 - 18:57:07
Is that what happens in the book, that men are treated like objects?
I haven't read it--saw a few excerpts, know the basic story.
The book is written by a woman, for women, for the sake of women's sexual gratification. So of course that means the existence of the male character in the sexual exchanges exists for that reason: women's sexual gratification.
It is an ugly story of perversion. I can't understand why any woman would be drawn to it, but they are ::juggle::. This horrible abomination is hot on the heels of that movie "magic Mike" about men strippers. ::frustrated:: Just sick, sad and heartbreaking.
I have been on a soap box lately about how men are portrayed in T.V shows and movies. If a pretty girl walks by, men immediately become idiots who cannot think, reason or make a good decision..they are completely ruled by the hormones a pretty figure and face apparently ignites in them. ::shrug:: To me? That is objectifying men as buffoons, and they aren't IMO.
: Cally Sun Nov 23, 2014 - 18:57:07
Is that what happens in the book, that men are treated like objects?
I haven't read it--saw a few excerpts, know the basic story.
The book is written by a woman, for women, for the sake of women's sexual gratification. So of course that means the existence of the male character in the sexual exchanges exists for that reason: women's sexual gratification.
Well the world would say that as long as both partners are willing participants then anything goes. ::shrug::
It is an ugly story of perversion. I can't understand why any woman would be drawn to it, but they are ::juggle::. This horrible abomination is hot on the heels of that movie "magic Mike" about men strippers. ::frustrated:: Just sick, sad and heartbreaking.
I have been on a soap box lately about how men are portrayed in T.V shows and movies. If a pretty girl walks by, men immediately become idiots who cannot think, reason or make a good decision..they are completely ruled by the hormones a pretty figure and face apparently ignites in them. ::shrug:: To me? That is objectifying men as buffoons, and they aren't IMO.
I appreciate that, MM. I can easily think of examples of what you mean, and yet when the whole scene becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy after men are ingrained with the notion that they're defenseless before the attractive woman--whoops! Furthermore, the demeanor of a lot of "attractive women" is actually just as intimidating to women (all that we hear about threatened feelings of body image issues.
Well the world would say that as long as both partners are willing participants then anything goes. ::shrug::
I find it hard to believe that your ignorance is not deliberate. Men's lust issues are constantly met with "don't treat women like objects," and what I'm asking is, when it's women who are doing the lusting after men, where are all the "don't treat men like objects" or "respect men" lectures to women?
And to be fair, I remember several figures actually saying this--quite notably. But for the most part, there is most definitely a different response to the same thing. I want people's explanation for that.
: Cally Sun Nov 23, 2014 - 23:51:43
Well the world would say that as long as both partners are willing participants then anything goes. ::shrug::
I find it hard to believe that your ignorance is not deliberate. Men's lust issues are constantly met with "don't treat women like objects," and what I'm asking is, when it's women who are doing the lusting after men, where are all the "don't treat men like objects" or "respect men" lectures to women?
And to be fair, I remember several figures actually saying this--quite notably. But for the most part, there is most definitely a different response to the same thing. I want people's explanation for that.
Thanks for your rudeness which was totally uncalled for, ::eek:: My point was, what do you expect from people who are in the world? Anything goes, and they arent going to come out with godly statements about sex and relationships are they. I take no notice of what those who would read such a book think or say because they are following satans ways. Far better to listen to Christians and read what God says. Its wrong to use either sex for selfish reasons, but sex is so skewed these days with the widespread use of porn etc that we shouldnt be surprised when stupid people say stupid things. ::shrug::
: Cally Sun Nov 23, 2014 - 18:57:07
I haven't read it--
And that right there ends the thread. If you have not read the book, you have no right to make claims against it.
I have not read it, so I do know not if your claims are true or false. What I do know is that your argument holds no water.
I have heard of the book. I recently came across this blog about it:
I, Dannah, was introduced to the book by my husband, who'd been hearing about it in the media buzz. One night he couldn't take it anymore.
"You've got to write about this book," Bob said incredulously. He plopped a laptop in front of me and pushed play. A Saturday Night Live commercial spoof for amazon.com began. It was advertising a book I'd never heard of before: Fifty Shades of Grey.
A woman was reading the book in a bathtub and masturbating, when her husband and son walked in on her. She hollered and acted ashamed. Another woman was reading the book while she used her clothes washer as a vibrator, when her husband walked in on her. She hollered and acted ashamed. Another woman was reading the book and using a vibrator in bed, when her husband and kids came in with breakfast in bed for Mother's Day. She hollered and acted ashamed.
I pushed the computer away and told my husband matter-of-factly, "Oh, honey, I'm not going to write about that. I don't think that many spiritual women will be attracted to it."
The next day my mom told me a friend of hers had read it.
The next week a friend of mine told me her seventy-year-old mother had her name on a very long list at the library to get it.
The conversation had begun and it seemed everywhere I turned, a friend, family member, or acquaintance was either reading the books or asking if they should. Some of them specifically mentioned that they were excited that people were finally talking about topics like spanking.
Spiritual women, all of them.
Apparently, as a sexuality expert and relationship coach to spiritual women, I did need to write about this. So I wrote a blog titled "I'm Not Reading Fifty Shades of Grey." It sparked a fuel-fire of controversy with over fourteen hundred women choosing to pound out their opinions, long paragraph followed by long paragraph. Some defended the book and their choice to read it and criticized me for being judgmental. Others applauded me. Many wondered how I could critique it without having ever read it.
But I still haven't.
What I have read are the stories of countless women who have read Fifty Shades of Grey or other books in the erotica genre. It turns out I was very wrong: spiritual women do read erotica.
Praying grandmas are reading it.
Vibrant young human-trafficking activists are reading it.
Pastors' wives are reading it.
Homeschooled teenage girls are reading it.
The heads of charitable foundations are reading it.
Missionaries are reading it.
Professors of religion are reading it.
Jews, Muslims, and Christians are reading it.
I thought long and hard before I decided not to read it. While one obvious reason was that I'd already publicly stated that I wouldn't, another was that I want to dispel the myth that you have to read it to be able to have an informed opinion and engage in the debate. I have taken the time to come at this debate from another angle by engaging in the stories of women whose lives have been impacted by erotica. Email by email, they poured their hearts out. Many of them were brave enough to tell their stories, some of which you'll read in this book.
The co-author finally DID read the book and wrote about it along with the poster. You can read the rest of her statement and that of the co-author of "Pulling Back the Shades," their response to this work; here:
http://purefreedom.org/pulling-back-the-shades-true-confessions-from-dannah-juli/ (http://purefreedom.org/pulling-back-the-shades-true-confessions-from-dannah-juli/)
: DaveW Mon Nov 24, 2014 - 06:30:20
I have heard of the book. I recently came across this blog about it:
I, Dannah, was introduced to the book by my husband, who'd been hearing about it in the media buzz. One night he couldn't take it anymore.
"You've got to write about this book," Bob said incredulously. He plopped a laptop in front of me and pushed play. A Saturday Night Live commercial spoof for amazon.com began. It was advertising a book I'd never heard of before: Fifty Shades of Grey.
A woman was reading the book in a bathtub and masturbating, when her husband and son walked in on her. She hollered and acted ashamed. Another woman was reading the book while she used her clothes washer as a vibrator, when her husband walked in on her. She hollered and acted ashamed. Another woman was reading the book and using a vibrator in bed, when her husband and kids came in with breakfast in bed for Mother's Day. She hollered and acted ashamed.
I pushed the computer away and told my husband matter-of-factly, "Oh, honey, I'm not going to write about that. I don't think that many spiritual women will be attracted to it."
The next day my mom told me a friend of hers had read it.
The next week a friend of mine told me her seventy-year-old mother had her name on a very long list at the library to get it.
The conversation had begun and it seemed everywhere I turned, a friend, family member, or acquaintance was either reading the books or asking if they should. Some of them specifically mentioned that they were excited that people were finally talking about topics like spanking.
Spiritual women, all of them.
Apparently, as a sexuality expert and relationship coach to spiritual women, I did need to write about this. So I wrote a blog titled "I'm Not Reading Fifty Shades of Grey." It sparked a fuel-fire of controversy with over fourteen hundred women choosing to pound out their opinions, long paragraph followed by long paragraph. Some defended the book and their choice to read it and criticized me for being judgmental. Others applauded me. Many wondered how I could critique it without having ever read it.
But I still haven't.
What I have read are the stories of countless women who have read Fifty Shades of Grey or other books in the erotica genre. It turns out I was very wrong: spiritual women do read erotica.
Praying grandmas are reading it.
Vibrant young human-trafficking activists are reading it.
Pastors' wives are reading it.
Homeschooled teenage girls are reading it.
The heads of charitable foundations are reading it.
Missionaries are reading it.
Professors of religion are reading it.
Jews, Muslims, and Christians are reading it.
I thought long and hard before I decided not to read it. While one obvious reason was that I'd already publicly stated that I wouldn't, another was that I want to dispel the myth that you have to read it to be able to have an informed opinion and engage in the debate. I have taken the time to come at this debate from another angle by engaging in the stories of women whose lives have been impacted by erotica. Email by email, they poured their hearts out. Many of them were brave enough to tell their stories, some of which you'll read in this book.
That author finally DID read the book and wrote about it along with another woman. You can read the rest of her statement and that of the other co-author of "Pulling Back the Shades," their response to this work; here:
http://purefreedom.org/pulling-back-the-shades-true-confessions-from-dannah-juli/ (http://purefreedom.org/pulling-back-the-shades-true-confessions-from-dannah-juli/)
Would these 'christian' women who read this book be ok if their husband looked at porn? Probably not. I dont know anyone who read it and I have no idea why any Christian would think it was in anyway Ok. It troubles me that many have read it. Would they read it if Jesus was physically in the room with them? Unlikely. ::shrug::
: chosenone Mon Nov 24, 2014 - 07:11:16
Would these 'christian' women who read this book be ok if their husband looked at porn? Probably not. I dont know anyone who read it and I have no idea why any Christian would think it was in anyway Ok.
Since this is the "Singles Sexuality" forum, perhaps better questions would be
* "Is it OK to intentionally make yourself aroused over and over again [from what I have heard there are a LOT of erotic interludes] with equally frequent masturbation or a serious state of ongoing intense frustration?"
* Would you be OK with your boyfriend or fiancee reading erotic matieral and masturbating to it?
It troubles me that many have read it.
I guess I find it troubling that many on that website said they had read it and "not been affected" by it.
Does that mean that they find it to NOT be arousing? Or they are blanking out in their own mind getting aroused and then masturbating?
So either they are lying to themselves, or they have a SERIOUS problem with sexual shut-down. (in which case, why read it at all?)
: Cally Sun Nov 23, 2014 - 23:46:01
It is an ugly story of perversion. I can't understand why any woman would be drawn to it, but they are ::juggle::. This horrible abomination is hot on the heels of that movie "magic Mike" about men strippers. ::frustrated:: Just sick, sad and heartbreaking.
I have been on a soap box lately about how men are portrayed in T.V shows and movies. If a pretty girl walks by, men immediately become idiots who cannot think, reason or make a good decision..they are completely ruled by the hormones a pretty figure and face apparently ignites in them. ::shrug:: To me? That is objectifying men as buffoons, and they aren't IMO.
I appreciate that, MM. I can easily think of examples of what you mean, and yet when the whole scene becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy after men are ingrained with the notion that they're defenseless before the attractive woman--whoops! Furthermore, the demeanor of a lot of "attractive women" is actually just as intimidating to women (all that we hear about threatened feelings of body image issues.
yes! Intimidating!
But, what I am talking about doesnt seem like intimidation...but this is a new perspective and I will think on this.
From my observations, they just show that men become mindless drones working for the queen bee. Its like they are mesmerized and dopey.
Its like they are memorized and dopey.
Did you mean "mesmerized?"
: DaveW Mon Nov 24, 2014 - 09:30:09
Its like they are memorized and dopey.
Did you mean "mesmerized?"
rofl Yes! Sorry for the typo. My dh and son were talking to me of basketball trades, wavers and double doubles while I was trying to respond. so much for the myth that women can multitask ::noworries::. I am going back in to fix that now. ::giggle:: ::giggle:: ::giggle::
And that right there ends the thread. If you have not read the book, you have no right to make claims against it.
I have not read it, so I do know not if your claims are true or false. What I do know is that your argument holds no water.
Do you look at pornography? If not, does that mean you can't make claims against it?
It's a book with graphic descriptions of all kinds of sex, Bond. That's undisputed. It's called "literotica."
Moreover, I was really only using that as an example for another question: where are the "don't treat men like objects" lectures at women when (in GENERAL) they have lust issues, the way men get the "don't treat women like objects" lectures?
: Cally Mon Nov 24, 2014 - 10:09:42
Moreover, I was really only using that as an example for another question: where are the "don't treat men like objects" lectures at women when (in GENERAL) they have lust issues, the way men get the "don't treat women like objects" lectures?
Cally - it takes a while for the culture at large to catch up with reality. Western culture as a whole did not even recognize women had sexual desires or orgasms until about a century ago. The "do not objectify women" mantra has been around since the early 1800s (at least) and possibly can be traced back to the Early Church Fathers of the 2nd and 3rd centuries. So once Freud and others around the last turn of the century found out that what had been deemed "hysteria" by Hypocrates circa 400 bc was actually
frustrated sexual desire, ideas changed but still have a long way to go.
IMO, There is a feminist agenda involved as well. There is a reason you do not hear of osteoporosis in men; or men as victims of domestic violence, or men with breast cancer. They are "feminist" issues and to acknowledge that men suffer from those issues as well dilutes their stance. I think the same is true of lust and objectification.
When it ceases to be a femininst issue in favor of a HUMAN issue, it loses focus.
Dave, female infidelity in general has existed and has been known since time immemorial.
In any case, WHEN the matter of women's sexual problems arise (and they DO), that message is very suspiciously sluggish to enter the discussion where it's used liberally to men. If women have the same issue, you'd expect the same "effective" messages to be used to remedy it, wouldn't you?
That aside, I appreciate your thoughtful response, thanks for that. ;)
As a man, I am actually profoundly offended that men are told "don't treat women like objects" when I'm not hearing men being told:
Proverbs 6:26: "For the prostitute reduces you to a piece of bread."Wait, so it's actually the prostitute who reduces the MAN to an object (only seeing him as a meal ticket), according to the Bible?! Mind=blown. But it's common sense and that's been known forever. It's a LOVING and HELPFUL thing to say to men who struggle with temptation, along with Paul's message not to defile ourselves on the prostitute. That's why it's in the Bible and has been for thousands of years.
I'm used to seeing women told of their preciousness and sacredness for staying pure more than anything--a message of self-respect. I would that men were offered the same message, as that is more biblical--restoring the dignity of men in this culture is a huge, huge thing to do and I feel encompasses sexual immorality issues.
IMO, There is a feminist agenda involved as well. There is a reason you do not hear of osteoporosis in men; or men as victims of domestic violence, or men with breast cancer. They are "feminist" issues and to acknowledge that men suffer from those issues as well dilutes their stance. I think the same is true of lust and objectification.
When it ceases to be a femininst issue in favor of a HUMAN issue, it loses focus.
Wow, standing ovation over here for you, Dave!
: DaveW Mon Nov 24, 2014 - 11:40:20
: Cally Mon Nov 24, 2014 - 10:09:42
Moreover, I was really only using that as an example for another question: where are the "don't treat men like objects" lectures at women when (in GENERAL) they have lust issues, the way men get the "don't treat women like objects" lectures?
Cally - it takes a while for the culture at large to catch up with reality. Western culture as a whole did not even recognize women had sexual desires or orgasms until about a century ago. The "do not objectify women" mantra has been around since the early 1800s (at least) and possibly can be traced back to the Early Church Fathers of the 2nd and 3rd centuries. So once Freud and others around the last turn of the century found out that what had been deemed "hysteria" by Hypocrates circa 400 bc was actually frustrated sexual desire, ideas changed but still have a long way to go.
IMO, There is a feminist agenda involved as well. There is a reason you do not hear of osteoporosis in men; or men as victims of domestic violence, or men with breast cancer. They are "feminist" issues and to acknowledge that men suffer from those issues as well dilutes their stance. I think the same is true of lust and objectification.
When it ceases to be a femininst issue in favor of a HUMAN issue, it loses focus.
The reason we don't hear of those health issues in men Dave, is because they are far far less common in men. Nearly all violent crimes are still carried out by men, and osteoporosis for example is very common in women after the menopause because of the lack of oestrogen.
: Cally Mon Nov 24, 2014 - 12:02:15
Dave, female infidelity in general has existed and has been known since time immemorial.
In any case, WHEN the matter of women's sexual problems arise (and they DO), that message is very suspiciously sluggish to enter the discussion where it's used liberally to men. If women have the same issue, you'd expect the same "effective" messages to be used to remedy it, wouldn't you?
That aside, I appreciate your thoughtful response, thanks for that. ;)
As a man, I am actually profoundly offended that men are told "don't treat women like objects" when I'm not hearing men being told:
Proverbs 6:26: "For the prostitute reduces you to a piece of bread."
Wait, so it's actually the prostitute who reduces the MAN to an object (only seeing him as a meal ticket), according to the Bible?! Mind=blown. But it's common sense and that's been known forever. It's a LOVING and HELPFUL thing to say to men who struggle with temptation, along with Paul's message not to defile ourselves on the prostitute. That's why it's in the Bible and has been for thousands of years.
I'm used to seeing women told of their preciousness and sacredness for staying pure more than anything--a message of self-respect. I would that men were offered the same message, as that is more biblical--restoring the dignity of men in this culture is a huge, huge thing to do and I feel encompasses sexual immorality issues.
IMO, There is a feminist agenda involved as well. There is a reason you do not hear of osteoporosis in men; or men as victims of domestic violence, or men with breast cancer. They are "feminist" issues and to acknowledge that men suffer from those issues as well dilutes their stance. I think the same is true of lust and objectification.
When it ceases to be a femininst issue in favor of a HUMAN issue, it loses focus.
Wow, standing ovation over here for you, Dave!
Cally just some advise.
Cally it troubles me greatly that you have such an anti women stance and focus. It comes across in all your posts and threads, in fact it is all you ever seem to want to talk about. By your own admission you are an introvert who spends much of his time on line, and not much with the people in the real world. I am sure that it would benefit you greatly to spend much more time socialising and relating to normal real women(and men) in real life, and you will see that most of them are really nice and not out to get you or anyone else. There are good and bad in both sexes, one isnt better or worse than the other, and being bitter and angry towards one sex will only damage you emotionally and skew your vision of what is real and what isnt. ::shrug::
: chosenone Mon Nov 24, 2014 - 12:40:40The reason we don't hear of those health issues in men Dave, is because they are far far less common in men. .... osteoporosis for example is very common in women after the menopause because of the lack of oestrogen.
"far far less?" Really?
http://www.webmd.com/osteoporosis/living-with-osteoporosis-7/male-men (http://www.webmd.com/osteoporosis/living-with-osteoporosis-7/male-men)
20% of people with osteoporosis are men. What causes it, and what can you do about it?
.....
Real men get osteoporosis, too.
As many as 2 million American men already have osteoporosis, the bone thinning that makes bones brittle and porous and at likely to fracture. Twelve million men are at risk, and may have early signs of bone loss and low bone density, called osteopenia. But given that four times as many women have osteoporosis, men are less likely to end up with thin bones than women.
Why this lower risk?
"Women live longer, so they're more likely to get osteoporosis," says Paul Mystkowski, MD, an endocrinologist at Virginia Mason Medical Center in Seattle and clinical faculty member of the University of Washington in Seattle. And because men are generally more physically active over the course of their lives, he says, men are less likely to lose bone mass, since exercise has been shown to protect bone density.
But there's an even bigger difference with male osteoporosis.
"In general, osteoporosis in men is considered a symptom of something else," says Mystkowski, "whereas in older women, it's almost always postmenopausal."
And for many men, that "something" is hormonal.
Causes of Male Osteoporosis: Testosterone Deficiency
The most common cause of male osteoporosis is testosterone deficiency, says Mystkowski. "There's a clear consensus that when you're evaluating men with osteoporosis, you always evaluate for testosterone deficiency," he says.
BTW -
I was just diagnosed a few weeks ago with osteoporosis. (not sure yet how bad it is)
The reason we don't hear of those health issues in men Dave, is because they are far far less common in men. Nearly all violent crimes are still carried out by men, and osteoporosis for example is very common in women after the menopause because of the lack of oestrogen.
Issues that affect men in general receive less attention. Breast cancer research (for a quick example) gets about twice as much public funding as prostate cancer despite the threats being equal. There are multiple departments of women's health in government, but none for men.
Actually, chosenone, your disrespect for the personhood of men comes across in your posts. There is nothing, on the other hand, that is anti-woman in the post you quoted of mine above--nothing.
: DaveW Mon Nov 24, 2014 - 12:52:15
: chosenone Mon Nov 24, 2014 - 12:40:40The reason we don't hear of those health issues in men Dave, is because they are far far less common in men. .... osteoporosis for example is very common in women after the menopause because of the lack of oestrogen.
"far far less?" Really?
http://www.webmd.com/osteoporosis/living-with-osteoporosis-7/male-men (http://www.webmd.com/osteoporosis/living-with-osteoporosis-7/male-men)
20% of people with osteoporosis are men. What causes it, and what can you do about it?
.....
Real men get osteoporosis, too.
As many as 2 million American men already have osteoporosis, the bone thinning that makes bones brittle and porous and at likely to fracture. Twelve million men are at risk, and may have early signs of bone loss and low bone density, called osteopenia. But given that four times as many women have osteoporosis, men are less likely to end up with thin bones than women.
Why this lower risk?
"Women live longer, so they're more likely to get osteoporosis," says Paul Mystkowski, MD, an endocrinologist at Virginia Mason Medical Center in Seattle and clinical faculty member of the University of Washington in Seattle. And because men are generally more physically active over the course of their lives, he says, men are less likely to lose bone mass, since exercise has been shown to protect bone density.
But there's an even bigger difference with male osteoporosis.
"In general, osteoporosis in men is considered a symptom of something else," says Mystkowski, "whereas in older women, it's almost always postmenopausal."
And for many men, that "something" is hormonal.
Causes of Male Osteoporosis: Testosterone Deficiency
The most common cause of male osteoporosis is testosterone deficiency, says Mystkowski. "There's a clear consensus that when you're evaluating men with osteoporosis, you always evaluate for testosterone deficiency," he says.
BTW - I was just diagnosed a few weeks ago with osteoporosis. (not sure yet how bad it is)
There are still 4 times as many women as men who have it if your figures are right. There have always been illnesses or conditions that men have more than women and women have more than men, its not some sort of weird conspiracy. ::shrug::
Breast cancer is about 140 times more common in women that men, and incidently I have seen programmes both about breast cancer in men, and about domestic abuse against men, so it is talked about.
By the way take vit d suppliments.
MeMyself said-I have been on a soap box lately about how men are portrayed in T.V shows and movies. If a pretty girl walks by, men immediately become idiots who cannot think, reason or make a good decision..they are completely ruled by the hormones a pretty figure and face apparently ignites in them. ::shrug:: To me? That is objectifying men as buffoons, and they aren't IMO.
I've actually seen many a church portray men this way too.
: gracey71 Mon Nov 24, 2014 - 13:34:49
MeMyself said-I have been on a soap box lately about how men are portrayed in T.V shows and movies. If a pretty girl walks by, men immediately become idiots who cannot think, reason or make a good decision..they are completely ruled by the hormones a pretty figure and face apparently ignites in them. ::shrug:: To me? That is objectifying men as buffoons, and they aren't IMO.
I've actually seen many a church portray men this way too.
Have you? Probably need to change churches is if that is the case.
Sadly yes. I have sat through many sermons on 'Ladies cover up as men can't control themselves. They are wired that way, you know. Give him lost of sex though and good food though and he will be happy." So, imo, it is no different than how the world sees men. And yes, I did find a new church.
Sadly yes. I have sat through many sermons on 'Ladies cover up as men can't control themselves. They are wired that way, you know. Give him lost of sex though and good food though and he will be happy." So, imo, it is no different than how the world sees men. And yes, I did find a new church.
It's two sides of the same problem. It's a feedback loop at this point, like a self-fulfilling prophecy.
When someone uses a prostitute, lusts after someone (visually), has an affair, etc. It's a false association with a love that isn't actually there. (Proverbs 5:19)
The answer is self-respect, part of a MUCH larger issue for men in a culture that disrespects men and is very poor at protecting men.
I would say to a man, I don't care if you're 100 pounds overweight, covered in acne, still at your parents' house at age 35, you're not to be disrespected by the prostitute (no matter what she looks like) who reduces a man to a piece of bread. (Proverbs 6:26) God thinks you're too beautiful for that. ;-) We were bought at a price, our bodies are a sacred temple. (1 Corinthians 6:19)
It sounds to me like that's the sort of thing that people like to tell women about sexual purity. But not men. We have this weird culture with men in a position of "we're not worthy" before women in a very weird sort of way on a lot of levels.
I would say the same thing to women if/when applicable, although it looks to me like people don't neglect that core message so much with regards to women.
: gracey71 Mon Nov 24, 2014 - 15:59:54
Sadly yes. I have sat through many sermons on 'Ladies cover up as men can't control themselves. They are wired that way, you know. Give him lost of sex though and good food though and he will be happy."
True. I remember an evangelist came to town working with several area congregations of different denoms (he was Assembly of God I think) and one of the sessions covered that issue. (this was back in the 1980s) He was sharing the podium with his wife who made that statement. He responded by pointing to his pants and said "Feed me;" and then to his mouth and again said "Feed me."
: gracey71 Mon Nov 24, 2014 - 15:59:54
Sadly yes. I have sat through many sermons on 'Ladies cover up as men can't control themselves. They are wired that way, you know. Give him lost of sex though and good food though and he will be happy." So, imo, it is no different than how the world sees men. And yes, I did find a new church.
I have never heard that taught, on the contrary church leaders here are way too scared to even mention the subject of women and modesty. Too afraid of opening a can of worms. ::eek::
Of course its right that men are visual beings and that women should dress modestly, thats totally biblical. As is regular sex for married people as Paul instructs. However men arent helpless to control their lusts, and godly men will act in a decent and proper way.
: DaveW Tue Nov 25, 2014 - 05:31:41
: gracey71 Mon Nov 24, 2014 - 15:59:54
Sadly yes. I have sat through many sermons on 'Ladies cover up as men can't control themselves. They are wired that way, you know. Give him lost of sex though and good food though and he will be happy."
True. I remember an evangelist came to town working with several area congregations of different denoms (he was Assembly of God I think) and one of the sessions covered that issue. (this was back in the 1980s) He was sharing the podium with his wife who made that statement. He responded by pointing to his pants and said "Feed me;" and then to his mouth and again said "Feed me."
Gross. ::frown::
: DaveW Tue Nov 25, 2014 - 05:31:41
: gracey71 Mon Nov 24, 2014 - 15:59:54
Sadly yes. I have sat through many sermons on 'Ladies cover up as men can't control themselves. They are wired that way, you know. Give him lost of sex though and good food though and he will be happy."
True. I remember an evangelist came to town working with several area congregations of different denoms (he was Assembly of God I think) and one of the sessions covered that issue. (this was back in the 1980s) He was sharing the podium with his wife who made that statement. He responded by pointing to his pants and said "Feed me;" and then to his mouth and again said "Feed me."
::frown::
I hate this for men. They are not mindless neanderthals who are lead by their physical urges for food and sex...it make me FURIOUS that so many have bought into this! ::frustrated::
: MeMyself Tue Nov 25, 2014 - 09:10:16
I hate this for men. They are not mindless neanderthals who are lead by their physical urges for food and sex...it make me FURIOUS that so many have bought into this! ::frustrated::
Well - try this one on for size.
http://www.squaredancecd.com/Bride/brides.htm (http://www.squaredancecd.com/Bride/brides.htm)
Most men, if not denied, would demand sex almost every day. The wise bride will permit a maximum of two brief sexual experiences weekly during the first months of marriage. As time goes by she should make every effort to reduce this frequency.
Feigned illness, sleepiness, and headaches are among the wife's best friends in this matter. Arguments, nagging, scolding, and bickering also prove very effective, if used in the late evening about an hour before the husband would normally commence his seduction.
Clever wives are ever on the alert for new and better methods of denying and discouraging the amorous overtures of the husband. A good wife should expect to have reduced sexual contacts to once a week by the end of the first year of marriage and to once a month by the end of the fifth year of marriage.
: DaveW Wed Nov 26, 2014 - 05:55:36
: MeMyself Tue Nov 25, 2014 - 09:10:16
I hate this for men. They are not mindless neanderthals who are lead by their physical urges for food and sex...it make me FURIOUS that so many have bought into this! ::frustrated::
Well - try this one on for size.
http://www.squaredancecd.com/Bride/brides.htm (http://www.squaredancecd.com/Bride/brides.htm)
Most men, if not denied, would demand sex almost every day. The wise bride will permit a maximum of two brief sexual experiences weekly during the first months of marriage. As time goes by she should make every effort to reduce this frequency.
Feigned illness, sleepiness, and headaches are among the wife's best friends in this matter. Arguments, nagging, scolding, and bickering also prove very effective, if used in the late evening about an hour before the husband would normally commence his seduction.
Clever wives are ever on the alert for new and better methods of denying and discouraging the amorous overtures of the husband. A good wife should expect to have reduced sexual contacts to once a week by the end of the first year of marriage and to once a month by the end of the fifth year of marriage.
it was written in 1894. We have thankfully moved on since then. ::eek::
: Cally Sun Nov 23, 2014 - 23:51:43Men's lust issues are constantly met with "don't treat women like objects," and what I'm asking is, when it's women who are doing the lusting after men, where are all the "don't treat men like objects" or "respect men" lectures to women?
I am of the opinion that most men (probably an overwhelming majority)
wish they were viewed by women as sexual objects. Even good christian men.
Women often cry "foul" when they are viewed that way, but what man complains?
: chosenone Wed Nov 26, 2014 - 06:44:26
it was written in 1894. We have thankfully moved on since then. ::eek::
I understand there are some questions of its authenticity. The wording sounds more like mid 20th century. But it is an accurate portrayal of the sentiment at the time.
While as a culture we may have "moved on," there are still shreds of that mentality hanging around; particularly in some segments of the church. There are still mothers and church leaders that tell young girls that sex is traumatic. While it may be a well-intentioned attempt to discourage premarital sexual activity; it often yeilds a lifetime of inhibition and feeling violated if the young lady does get married.
ETA: which may be in part feuling the popularity of "romance novels" and "literotica." When a proper desire is suppressed, it often pops out in some other strange form elsewhere.
: DaveW Wed Nov 26, 2014 - 05:55:36
: MeMyself Tue Nov 25, 2014 - 09:10:16
I hate this for men. They are not mindless neanderthals who are lead by their physical urges for food and sex...it make me FURIOUS that so many have bought into this! ::frustrated::
Well - try this one on for size.
http://www.squaredancecd.com/Bride/brides.htm (http://www.squaredancecd.com/Bride/brides.htm)
Most men, if not denied, would demand sex almost every day. The wise bride will permit a maximum of two brief sexual experiences weekly during the first months of marriage. As time goes by she should make every effort to reduce this frequency.
Feigned illness, sleepiness, and headaches are among the wife's best friends in this matter. Arguments, nagging, scolding, and bickering also prove very effective, if used in the late evening about an hour before the husband would normally commence his seduction.
Clever wives are ever on the alert for new and better methods of denying and discouraging the amorous overtures of the husband. A good wife should expect to have reduced sexual contacts to once a week by the end of the first year of marriage and to once a month by the end of the fifth year of marriage.
::frown:: It makes me so sad how something so beautiful between a man and his wife is reduced to a duty that you have to chart, make a list to remember to do and just grin and bear it. ::frown::
Way to take what God intends for blessing and make it akin to cleaning the toilet. ::doh::
: DaveW Wed Nov 26, 2014 - 06:50:09
: Cally Sun Nov 23, 2014 - 23:51:43Men's lust issues are constantly met with "don't treat women like objects," and what I'm asking is, when it's women who are doing the lusting after men, where are all the "don't treat men like objects" or "respect men" lectures to women?
I am of the opinion that most men (probably an overwhelming majority) wish they were viewed by women as sexual objects. Even good christian men.
Women often cry "foul" when they are viewed that way, but what man complains?
::destroyingcomputer:: Edited to remove post. My apologies
: MeMyself Wed Nov 26, 2014 - 09:13:01
xxxxx
OK - Well, Moving right along ... ::blushing::
This is the SINGLES sex forum. Not the married one. Can we put something in there that is more keyed to the singles?
Can we hear from any singles on this book (or others like it) and if you think it is beneficial or detrimental, and why.
Are you going to see the movie? .....
edited to remove comment deleted by MeMy
Sorry. Didn't realize it was in the singles space. I will remove my post....and keep to my own lane. ::doh::
I am of the opinion that most men (probably an overwhelming majority) wish they were viewed by women as sexual objects. Even good christian men.
You may well be right, Dave, which is really sad, and it's something I've contemplated for a long time, that the reason a message like not letting the prostitute reduce you to a piece of bread or defiling one's body on her (THAT's the bible's message on sexual purity) falls so flat is really because we, in the culture of men, are simply so accustomed to being reduced to pieces of bread ALREADY in so many other ways that it just doesn't make our senses react to what's really going on.
Men will even become complacent that they're treated like their value is the summation of what they produce, lacking thought as to their innate value.
I remember seeing studies (shouldn't be too hard to look up) of news reports of (say) some natural disaster and the report will go something like "90 were killed, 16 of them women," like it's a MUCH bigger deal if a woman is harmed.
Boko Haram killed many boys before he kidnapped girls, and the only thing reported by major news outlets and caused an uproar was the kidnapped girls, not the boys he killed. Later on Boko Haram also kidnapped boys, and again, nothing. The outrage was only for the well-being of girls. There is just overwhelming indication that men's lives, protection and well-being are valued FAR less than women's and it's nothing really new. Men's PRODUCTIVITY is a rather high priority, which is something else. I have no doubt this is all connected. I wish men could be taught not to be party to this objectification of themselves and even learn to start fighting for it.
One of the few times I ever went to a bar in my life (drinks were half price, and I like the occasional mixed drink), a woman kept trying to get me to "dance" with her and eventually started grabbing at me and elbowed me in the ribs. No, I was not particularly pleased. Neither are most victims of (for example) female-on-male rape.
Honestly another thing I think that has to do with these outlets like pornography and literotica is the repression of masculinity and femininity, like unfortunately one of the last places for those to exist in the modern world are those "secret" places where it's no-holds-barred immorality anyway. :(
: Cally Wed Nov 26, 2014 - 17:14:32
Neither are most victims of (for example) female-on-male rape.
Actually I think you mean sexual assault or criminal sexual conduct. The word "rape" requires penetration by the perpetrator; and unless some foreign object is used, a woman lacks the equipment to do that.
: DaveW Mon Nov 24, 2014 - 08:16:15
: chosenone Mon Nov 24, 2014 - 07:11:16
Would these 'christian' women who read this book be ok if their husband looked at porn? Probably not. I dont know anyone who read it and I have no idea why any Christian would think it was in anyway Ok.
I don't think it's fair to put 'Christian' in inverted commas like that. I am a Christian and yep, I read it.
I read it because of a lot of rather self-righteous sounding internet posts telling me I shouldn't. I don't think it's actually anyone's business what I read or not - I will let my gut be the guide on that one.
I wasn't sure what to expect - as a woman it actually kept my interest because there was a good story running through it all. Christian is this dark, foreboding character with a troubled, mysterious history. She is of the view that somehow she can 'save' him and little by little, as the story unfolds, it's clear she can't. But I was intrigued to know what kind of terrible secrets lurked in his past. The sex stuff adds to the intrigue but after a while, it got a bit ridiculous - I was thinking, 'Oh COME on, not AGAIN!!!'. As the story finished up, I wondered if I would read the other books and I made a choice not to, because I didn't think it was good for my spiritual health. But I am glad that I made the choice myself to read it. I am a grown up, who can make my own decisions and don't need someone questioning my relationship with God because of what I've chosen to read. After all, the same people who might be questioning my reading material, could be watching horror or slasher movies, or drooling over the half naked posters in magazines or any other number of things.
It was my choice and I'm glad I read it.