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All emphasis in the following quotes is mine.


THE GREAT CONTROVERSY 1888, PAGES 588 & 599

Through the two great errors, the immortality of the soul, and Sunday sacredness, Satan will bring the people under his deceptions. While the former lays the foundation of Spiritualism, the latter creates a bond of sympathy with Rome. The Protestants of the United States will be foremost in stretching their hands across the gulf to grasp the hand of Spiritualism; they will reach over the abyss to clasp hands with the Roman power; and under the influence of this threefold union, this country will follow in the steps of Rome in trampling on the rights of conscience.

As Spiritualism more closely imitates the nominal Christianity of the day, it has greater power to deceive and ensnare. Satan himself is converted, after the modern order of things. He will appear in the character of an angel of light. Through the agency of Spiritualism, miracles will be wrought, the sick will be healed, and many undeniable wonders will be performed. And as the spirits will profess faith in the Bible, and manifest respect for the institutions of the church, their work will be accepted as a manifestation of divine power.

The line of distinction between professed Christians and the ungodly is now hardly distinguishable. Church-members love what the world loves, and are ready to join with them; and Satan determines to unite them in one body, and thus strengthen his cause by sweeping all into the ranks of Spiritualism. Papists, who boast of miracles as a certain sign of the true church, will be readily deceived by this wonder-working power; and Protestants, having cast away the shield of truth, will also be deluded. Papists, Protestants, and worldlings will alike accept the form of godliness without the power, and they will see in this union a grand movement for the conversion of the world, and the ushering in of the long-expected millennium. (THE GREAT CONTROVERSY 1888, PAGES 588 & 599)


Excerpts from - ENCYCLICAL LETTER
LAUDATO SI'
OF THE HOLY FATHER
FRANCIS
ON CARE FOR OUR COMMON HOME

237. On Sunday, our participation in the Eucharist has special importance. Sunday, like the Jewish Sabbath, is meant to be a day which heals our relationships with God, with ourselves, with others and with the world. Sunday is the day of the Resurrection, the "first day" of the new creation, whose first fruits are the Lord's risen humanity, the pledge of the final transfiguration of all created reality. It also proclaims "man's eternal rest in God".[168] In this way, Christian spirituality incorporates the value of relaxation and festivity. We tend to demean contemplative rest as something unproductive and unnecessary, but this is to do away with the very thing which is most important about work: its meaning. We are called to include in our work a dimension of receptivity and gratuity, which is quite different from mere inactivity. Rather, it is another way of working, which forms part of our very essence. It protects human action from becoming empty activism; it also prevents that unfettered greed and sense of isolation which make us seek personal gain to the detriment of all else. The law of weekly rest forbade work on the seventh day, "so that your ox and your donkey may have rest, and the son of your maidservant, and the stranger, may be refreshed" (Ex 23:12). Rest opens our eyes to the larger picture and gives us renewed sensitivity to the rights of others. And so the day of rest, centred on the Eucharist, sheds it light on the whole week, and motivates us to greater concern for nature and the poor.

VIII. QUEEN OF ALL CREATION

241. Mary, the Mother who cared for Jesus, now cares with maternal affection and pain for this wounded world. Just as her pierced heart mourned the death of Jesus, so now she grieves for the sufferings of the crucified poor and for the creatures of this world laid waste by human power. Completely transfigured, she now lives with Jesus, and all creatures sing of her fairness. She is the Woman, "clothed in the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars" (Rev 12:1). Carried up into heaven, she is the Mother and Queen of all creation. In her glorified body, together with the Risen Christ, part of creation has reached the fullness of its beauty. She treasures the entire life of Jesus in her heart (cf. Lk 2:19,51), and now understands the meaning of all things. Hence, we can ask her to enable us to look at this world with eyes of wisdom.

242. At her side in the Holy Family of Nazareth, stands the figure of Saint Joseph. Through his work and generous presence, he cared for and defended Mary and Jesus, delivering them from the violence of the unjust by bringing them to Egypt. The Gospel presents Joseph as a just man, hard-working and strong. But he also shows great tenderness, which is not a mark of the weak but of those who are genuinely strong, fully aware of reality and ready to love and serve in humility. That is why he was proclaimed custodian of the universal Church. He too can teach us how to show care; he can inspire us to work with generosity and tenderness in protecting this world which God has entrusted to us.

Excerpts from - ENCYCLICAL LETTER
CARITAS IN VERITATE
OF THE SUPREME PONTIFF
BENEDICT XVI
TO THE BISHOPS
PRIESTS AND DEACONS
MEN AND WOMEN RELIGIOUS
THE LAY FAITHFUL
AND ALL PEOPLE OF GOOD WILL
ON INTEGRAL HUMAN DEVELOPMENT
IN CHARITY AND TRUTH

Man's earthly activity, when inspired and sustained by charity, contributes to the building of the universal city of God, which is the goal of the history of the human family. In an increasingly globalized society, the common good and the effort to obtain it cannot fail to assume the dimensions of the whole human family, that is to say, the community of peoples and nations, in such a way as to shape the earthly city in unity and peace, rendering it to some degree an anticipation and a prefiguration of the undivided city of God.


His was certainly a social teaching of great importance: he underlined the indispensable importance of the Gospel for building a society according to freedom and justice, in the ideal and historical perspective of a civilization animated by love. Paul VI clearly understood that the social question had become worldwide  and he grasped the interconnection between the impetus towards the unification of humanity and the Christian ideal of a single family of peoples in solidarity and fraternity.

, but only on Christ, to whom every authentic vocation to integral human development must be directed. The Gospel is fundamental for development, because in the Gospel, Christ, "in the very revelation of the mystery of the Father and of his love, fully reveals humanity to itself". Taught by her Lord, the Church examines the signs of the times and interprets them, offering the world "what she possesses as her characteristic attribute: a global vision of man and of the human race"

The following quote is taken from an article which may be viewed at - http://wwrn.org/articles/45896/ (http://wwrn.org/articles/45896/)

Mary has become a "symbol of unity" in Lebanon, as the BBC put it, where war, inter-religious strife and the ever-present threat of extremism might otherwise tear people apart.

The shared reverence for Mary is especially engrained in the culture of Lebanon, where Christians, Muslims and people of other faiths celebrate the Feast of the Annunciation on March 25 and visit the Harissa shrine during Mary's month of May and throughout the year.

Randa Youssef, a Shiite Muslim woman from Beirut, told CNS she liked to come to the shrine to ask for forgiveness. "I hope she listens to us to give our prayers to God," Youssef said.

Modern day "Christianized" spiritualism uniting Roman Catholics and Muslims in prayer to the dead. No doubt the evil one will step in to answer their prayers and help bring about the false unity in rebellion against God predicted in biblical prophecy. Those who choose to believe a lie, are left with nothing but deception. Therefore will God give them over to strong delusion, and allow Satan to perform the same.

2 Thess 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Muslims and Mary

https://www.ewtn.com/library/mary/marykran.htm (https://www.ewtn.com/library/mary/marykran.htm)

http://www.faithstreet.com/onfaith/2010/12/08/love-for-the-virgin-mary-runs/5072 (http://www.faithstreet.com/onfaith/2010/12/08/love-for-the-virgin-mary-runs/5072)

http://www.faithstreet.com/onfaith/2010/12/08/love-for-the-virgin-mary-runs/5072 (http://www.faithstreet.com/onfaith/2010/12/08/love-for-the-virgin-mary-runs/5072)

http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/ecumenical-and-interreligious/interreligious/islam/how-mary-holds-christians-and-muslims-in-conversation.cfm (http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/ecumenical-and-interreligious/interreligious/islam/how-mary-holds-christians-and-muslims-in-conversation.cfm)

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2014/11/12/our-lady-provides-common-ground-for-catholics-and-muslims/ (http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2014/11/12/our-lady-provides-common-ground-for-catholics-and-muslims/)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/lebanon-mary-shrine-catholic-muslims_us_5745edfde4b0dacf7ad3bc85 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/lebanon-mary-shrine-catholic-muslims_us_5745edfde4b0dacf7ad3bc85)

http://www.catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/islam/Godsplan.htm (http://www.catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/islam/Godsplan.htm)

http://galliawatch.blogspot.com/2016/04/catholics-and-muslims-pray-to-mary.html (http://galliawatch.blogspot.com/2016/04/catholics-and-muslims-pray-to-mary.html)

http://www.catholic365.com/article/962/the-virgin-marys-coming-triumph-in-muslim-hearts.html (http://www.catholic365.com/article/962/the-virgin-marys-coming-triumph-in-muslim-hearts.html)

http://www.catholic.org/featured/headline.php?ID=712 (http://www.catholic.org/featured/headline.php?ID=712)

http://www.cuf.org/2007/09/our-lady-and-islam-can-our-common-devotion-to-mary-lead-muslims-to-christ/ (http://www.cuf.org/2007/09/our-lady-and-islam-can-our-common-devotion-to-mary-lead-muslims-to-christ/)

http://www.ucanews.com/news/marian-shrine-serves-as-faith-beacon-for-muslims-catholics/74119 (http://www.ucanews.com/news/marian-shrine-serves-as-faith-beacon-for-muslims-catholics/74119)

http://www.nairaland.com/750387/end-times-muslim-catholic-connection (http://www.nairaland.com/750387/end-times-muslim-catholic-connection)

http://www.spiritmediumlaura.com/mother-mary-ascended-master/ (http://www.spiritmediumlaura.com/mother-mary-ascended-master/)

http://www.sacredwind.com/mothermary.php (http://www.sacredwind.com/mothermary.php)

http://www.motherofallpeoples.com/2012/06/how-is-mary-the-spiritual-mother-of-humanity/ (http://www.motherofallpeoples.com/2012/06/how-is-mary-the-spiritual-mother-of-humanity/)

http://www.summitlighthouse.org/archangel-raphael-mother-mary/ (http://www.summitlighthouse.org/archangel-raphael-mother-mary/)

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Mother+Mary+and+spiritualism&view=detail&mid=895E3CA008954ADF75EC895E3CA008954ADF75EC&FORM=VIRE (https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Mother+Mary+and+spiritualism&view=detail&mid=895E3CA008954ADF75EC895E3CA008954ADF75EC&FORM=VIRE)

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Mother+Mary+and+spiritualism&view=detail&mid=3139E34A0C17B43D85FD3139E34A0C17B43D85FD&FORM=VIRE (https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Mother+Mary+and+spiritualism&view=detail&mid=3139E34A0C17B43D85FD3139E34A0C17B43D85FD&FORM=VIRE)

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Mother+Mary+and+spiritualism&view=detail&mid=90D6F1BC6A65E241C03990D6F1BC6A65E241C039&FORM=VIRE (https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Mother+Mary+and+spiritualism&view=detail&mid=90D6F1BC6A65E241C03990D6F1BC6A65E241C039&FORM=VIRE)

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Mother+Mary+and+spiritualism&view=detail&mid=2E240485D42538D187252E240485D42538D18725&FORM=VIRE (https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Mother+Mary+and+spiritualism&view=detail&mid=2E240485D42538D187252E240485D42538D18725&FORM=VIRE)

The following sites claim messages from beyond the grave.

http://medjugorje.org (http://medjugorje.org)

http://www.heartscenter.org/HeartStreams/MessagesfromMotherMary/tabid/568/Default.aspx#.V1dptVc0nCU (http://www.heartscenter.org/HeartStreams/MessagesfromMotherMary/tabid/568/Default.aspx#.V1dptVc0nCU)

http://www.baproducts.com/pred2002.htm (http://www.baproducts.com/pred2002.htm)

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=intercession+of+mary+and+the+saints&qpvt=intercession+of+mary+and+the+saints&view=detail&mid=206B0E84E0C1C8A157B2206B0E84E0C1C8A157B2&FORM=VRDGAR (https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=intercession+of+mary+and+the+saints&qpvt=intercession+of+mary+and+the+saints&view=detail&mid=206B0E84E0C1C8A157B2206B0E84E0C1C8A157B2&FORM=VRDGAR)


https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Jesuits+the+army+of+Mary&&view=detail&mid=1F8B3C92D7E2F95FAF931F8B3C92D7E2F95FAF93&FORM=VRDGAR (https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Jesuits+the+army+of+Mary&&view=detail&mid=1F8B3C92D7E2F95FAF931F8B3C92D7E2F95FAF93&FORM=VRDGAR)

The following is in relation to Ignatius Loyola, the founder of the Jesuit institution, and faithful soldier and Knight of Mary. All emphasis is mine. The entire article may be viewed at - http://www.reformation.org/jesuits1.html (http://www.reformation.org/jesuits1.html)

The change was a sudden and violent one, and drew after it vast consequences not to Ignatius only, and the men of his own age, but to millions of the human race in all countries of the world, and in all the ages that have elapsed since. He who lay down on his bed the fiery soldier of the emperor, rose from it; the yet more fiery soldier of the Pope. The weakness occasioned by loss of blood, the morbidity produced by long seclusion, the irritation of acute and protracted suffering, joined to a temperament highly excitable, and a mind that had fed on miracles and visions till its enthusiasm had grown into fanaticism, accounts in part for the transformation which Ignatius had undergone. Though the balance of his intellect was now sadly disturbed, his shrewdness, his tenacity, and his daring remained. Set free from the fetters of calm reason, these qualities had freer scope than ever. The wing of his earthly ambition was broken, but he could take his flight heavenward. If earth was forbidden him, the celestial domains stood open, and there worthier exploits and more brilliant rewards awaited his prowess.

The heart of a soldier plucked out, and that of a monk given him, Ignatius vowed, before leaving his sick-chamber, to be the slave, the champion, the knight-errant of Mary. She was the lady of his soul, and after the manner of dutiful knights he immediately repaired to her shrine at Montserrat, hung up his arms before her image, and spent the night in watching them. But reflecting that he was a soldier of Christ, that great Monarch who had gone forth to subjugate all the earth, he resolved to eat no other food, wear no other raiment than his King had done, and endure the same hardships and vigils. Laying aside his plume, his coat of mail, his shield and sword, he donned the cloak of the mendicant. "Wrapped in sordid rags," says Duller, "an iron chain and prickly girdle pressing on his naked body, covered with filth, with un-combed hair and untrimmed nails," he retired to a dark mountain in the vicinity of Manressa, where was a gloomy cave, in which he made his abode for some time. There he subjected himself to all the penances and mortifications of the early anchorites whose holiness he emulated. He wrestled with the evil spirit, talked to voices audible to no ear but his own, fasted for days on end, till his weakness was such that he fell into a swoon, and one day was found at the entrance of his cave, lying on the ground, half dead.

The cave at Manressa recalls vividly to our memory the cell at Erfurt. The same austerities, vigils, mortifications, and mental efforts and agonies which were undergone by Ignatius Loyola, had but a very few years before this been passed through by Martin Luther. So far the career of the founder of the Jesuits and that of the champion of Protestantism were the same. Both had set before them a high standard of holiness, and both had all but sacrificed life to reach it. But at the point to which we have come the courses of the two men widely diverge. Both hitherto in their pursuit of truth and holiness had traveled by the same road; but now we see Luther turning to the Bible, "the light that shineth in a dark place," "the sure Word of Prophecy." Ignatius Loyola, on the other hand, surrenders himself to visions and revelations. As Luther went onward the light grew only the brighter around him. He had turned his face to the sun. Ignatius had turned his gaze inward upon his own beclouded mind, and verified the saying of the wise man, "He who wandereth out of the way of understanding shall remain in the congregation of the dead."

Let us turn our eyes upon Jesus through the prayerful reading and studying of His word found in the holy scriptures, and not upon the dead who cannot help or spiritually elevate us.

Eccl 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

The dead cannot answer or help the living. Do not seek salvation or wisdom from them, all such is from below, not above.

You should read the bible more and this woman less.

: Texas Conservative  Fri Jun 10, 2016 - 14:01:06
You should read the bible more and this woman less.

I've read the bible from cover to cover many times over, and will continue to read it daily always. That woman has told me and everyone else that the bible is the most important book for everyone to read as well. Perhaps you would care to elaborate, concerning what she said which I have posted which contradicts or takes away from the bible.

AMO, a Christian doesn't need a false prophet such as Ellen to tell them that the Bible is important. 

Such assertions about ellens statements contributing to her claimed status are non-sequitur. 

Adventism is based on logical fallacy. 

: current occupant  Sat Jun 11, 2016 - 08:08:33
AMO, a Christian doesn't need a false prophet such as Ellen to tell them that the Bible is important. 

Such assertions about ellens statements contributing to her claimed status are non-sequitur. 

Adventism is based on logical fallacy.

Adventism is based upon scripture. You are free of course to refute that, by proving otherwise, from scripture if you wish. No one should believe the testimony of EGW or anyone else simply because they said so, but rather because the scriptures support what they say. Nor should any then, listen to your above assertions, since they are nothing more than your own opinions. I turn your own accusation back upon you. You are a false prophet, prove your above accusations from scripture please, if you wish for anyone to believe your testimony. Or are you above the need to do so? The topic of this thread is in relation to the false doctrines of Sunday sacredness, and the state of the dead. That Sunday is not sacred, and that the living should not seek to communicate with the dead, whether one believes they are conscious in heaven or not. If you think this is wrong, and that EGW was a false prophet by teaching it, then prove it from scripture. Why should I or anyone else believe a thus saith current occupant?

More supposed messages from beyond the grave.

http://www.messagesofheaven.com (http://www.messagesofheaven.com)

More news regarding the topic at hand.

http://wwrn.org/articles/45992/ (http://wwrn.org/articles/45992/)

More on Mary and Islam.

http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/1186/story-of-mary-in-brief (http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/1186/story-of-mary-in-brief)

http://www.ignatiusinsight.com/features2009/fsheen_maryandislam__jun09.asp (http://www.ignatiusinsight.com/features2009/fsheen_maryandislam__jun09.asp)

http://www.onepeterfive.com/a-fatima-novena-for-the-conversion-of-muslims/ (http://www.onepeterfive.com/a-fatima-novena-for-the-conversion-of-muslims/)

http://www.tldm.org/News22/WhyMillionsOfMuslimsAreSeeingApparitionsOfTheMotherMary.htm (http://www.tldm.org/News22/WhyMillionsOfMuslimsAreSeeingApparitionsOfTheMotherMary.htm)

The following links are in reference to the day of the sun, weekly or otherwise. One main difference between Israel and the rest of the nations and peoples, was the seventh day Sabbath, and the worship of one God alone who Himself was not the sun but in fact created the sun and everything else. Worship of the sun, or sun gods was prevalent among almost all the false religions of this world. Was it really God through Jesus Christ that magnified this day of the sun for "Christianity" in this new covenant era? Was it His plan to create this thing in common with prevailing paganism of the day?

http://www.sacred-texts.com/time/smd/smd16.htm (http://www.sacred-texts.com/time/smd/smd16.htm)

http://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/the-day-the-sun-danced-fatima-1917 (http://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/the-day-the-sun-danced-fatima-1917)

http://www.hope-of-israel.org/cmas1.htm (http://www.hope-of-israel.org/cmas1.htm)

Mary continues to appear and communicate around the world, the dead to the living. She is of course calling for peace and unity in and of the world, as the Catholic Church itself does also accordingly. She also has specific designs for the America's as does the Church of Rome accordingly. As the first link of the following reveals, she has chosen the United States to lead the world toward peace. Now where are we headed as a nation but toward being the enforcers of globalism and also toward the unification of Cananda, the US, and South America. So whose design are we really following, and who is really running our nation.

http://enlightenedcatholicism-colkoch.blogspot.com/2008/12/two-little-known-marian-apparitions.html (http://enlightenedcatholicism-colkoch.blogspot.com/2008/12/two-little-known-marian-apparitions.html)

http://unveilingtheapocalypse.blogspot.com/2015/02/the-recent-marian-apparitions-in.html (http://unveilingtheapocalypse.blogspot.com/2015/02/the-recent-marian-apparitions-in.html)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZVDDKJxMRY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZVDDKJxMRY)

http://churchpop.com/2015/05/09/when-our-mother-appeared-5-little-known-marian-apparitions/ (http://churchpop.com/2015/05/09/when-our-mother-appeared-5-little-known-marian-apparitions/)

http://www.divinamadre.org/en/fotos-de-las-apariciones (http://www.divinamadre.org/en/fotos-de-las-apariciones)

The quotes under the following links, are from the links themselves. All emphasis in them, is mine. It is glaringly obvious that Mary has had, and does have very specific designs for this nation, and therefore the Catholic Church does as well. This simply means that the dead, or demons have a very specific design for this nation. The ever increasing number of Catholics running our nation has and continues to bring these specific designs to fruition. Americans denial and or refusal to admit the same, only encourages and strengthens these very efforts. Wake up America!



http://www.unitypublishing.com/Apparitions/OLA-OutlineFinal.htm (http://www.unitypublishing.com/Apparitions/OLA-OutlineFinal.htm)

                                The story of Our Lady of America truly began on May 10, 1846 when one Archbishop and 22 US Bishops met in Baltimore, MD, the first Catholic diocese in the US, for the 6th Provincial Council of Baltimore.  On that date they petitioned Rome to have the Blessed Virgin, under the title of the Immaculate Conception, named as Patroness of these United States, 28 at the time.   In 1847 that petition was granted by Pope Pius IX and Mary, under the title of her Immaculate Conception, became Patroness of the US.
                                The following story expresses Our Lady's gratitude to the American Church for this honor and promises Her special help and protection for these United States of America. It is the story of a Mother's love for her children, especially her children in America, and her mandate from heaven that we in America, in particular, help her renew the face of the earth by assisting her in bringing America, and the whole world, back to Faith and Purity.  She herself says she comes to America as a last resort.

I am pleased, my children, with the love and honor my children in America give to me, especially through my glorious and unique privilege of the Immaculate Conception. I promise to reward their love by working through the power of my Son's Heart and my Immaculate Heart, miracles of grace among them. I do not promise miracles of the body, but of the soul.

For it is mainly through these miracles of grace that the Holy Trinity is glorified among men and nations. Let America continue and grow in its love for me, and I in return, in union with the Heart of my Son, promise to work wonders in her. My child, I desire that this be known.

My child, I entrust YOU with this message that you must make known to my children in America. I wish it to be the country dedicated to my purity. The wonders I will work will be the wonders of the soul.  They must have faith and believe firmly in my love for them. I desire that they be the children of my Pure Heart.  I desire, through my children of America, to further the cause of faith and purity among peoples and nations. Let them come to me with confidence and simplicity, and I, their Mother, will teach them to become pure like to my Heart that their own hearts may be more pleasing to the Heart of my Son.

Behold, O my children, the tears of your Mother! Shall I weep in vain? Assuage the sorrow of my Heart over the ingratitude of sinful men by the love and chasteness of your lives. Will you do this for me, beloved children, or will you allow your Mother to weep in vain? I come to you, O Children of America, as a last resort.  I plead with you to listen to my voice. Cleanse your souls in the Precious Blood of My Son. Live in His Heart, and take me in that I may teach you to live in great purity of heart which is so pleasing to God. Be my army of chaste soldiers, ready to fight to the death to preserve the purity of your souls. I am the Immaculate One, Patroness of your land. Be my faithful children as I have been your faithful Mother.
These are my words, O my daughter. Make them known to my children.  I desire to make the whole of America my shrine by making every heart accessible to the love of my Son.  


http://campus.udayton.edu/mary/questions/yq/yq104.html (http://campus.udayton.edu/mary/questions/yq/yq104.html)

Q: Is Mary Empress of the Americas?
A: We have much information on Guadalupe, in image and in text. Use our search engine and you will discover a variety of aspects, historical, spiritual and iconographical in nature. As to the name and influence of Our Lady of Guadalupe behold the following: in 1737 Our Lady of Guadalupe was made patroness of the City of Mexico, in 1746/1747 of the whole of "New Spain" or America Septentrional. Benedict XIV in his Brave Non est equidem (1754) gave the Guadalupe feast a special office and formulary. In 1757 Our Lady of Guadalupe became patroness of Cuidad Ponce in Puerto Rico. In 1895 there followed the solemn coronation of the miraculous image. Leo XIII extended the privilege of office and formulary to all Latin-American countries. Pius X made the Guadalupana patroness of all Latin American countries in 1910. Pius XI extended her patronage to the Philippines in 1935. Finally, Pius XII, in his radio message commemorating the fiftieth anniversary of the crowning of the Guadalupe image in 1945 (October 12, See AAS 37, 1945, 264-267), called her "Empress of the Americas." John XXIII called her in 1960 the "celestial missionary of the New World" and "Mother of the Americas." Paul VI honored Our Lady of Guadalupe in a televised message to the faithful gathered in the Basilica of Guadalupe on October 12, 1970 (AAS 62, 1970, 681-683). John Paul II saw in her not only the "Mother of the Church in Latin America" but also the "Star of Evangelization" of the whole sub-continent (Puebla, 1979). In recent years, the reference to "the Americas" (patroness, empress of the Americas) has been applied to both North (USA and Canada) and South (Latin American countries). Its original meaning covered in a special way the Latin American nations. With the strengthening of US Catholicism, thanks to large numbers of Hispanic Catholics, the application of patroness, empress to both North and South seems very appropriate.

http://www.ourladyofamerica.org/wordpress/ (http://www.ourladyofamerica.org/wordpress/)

Our Lady promised that greater miracles than those granted at Lourdes and Fatima would be granted here in America, the United States in particular, if we do as she desires. Sister Mary Ephrem stated that Our Lady called herself Our Lady of America in response to the love and desire that reached out for this special title in the hearts of her children in America. For example, Our Lady repeatedly spoke approvingly about the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception in Washington D.C. This new title is a sign of Our Lady's pleasure in the devotion of her children of America towards her and this visit is a response to the longing, conscious or unconscious, in the hearts of her children in America.

"It is the United States that is to lead the world to peace, the peace of Christ, the peace that He brought with Him from heaven," Sister Mary Ephrem quoted The Virgin as saying. "Dear children, unless the United States accepts and carries out faithfully the mandate given to it by heaven to lead the world to peace, there will come upon it and all nations a great havoc of war and incredible suffering. If, however, the United States is faithful to this mandate from heaven and yet fails in the pursuit of peace because the rest of the world will not accept or cooperate, then the United States will not be burdened with the punishment about to fall." (Messages)

On October 13, 1956, Our Lady again appeared as Our Lady of America, but instead of a lily in her hand, she held, with both hands, a small replica of the finished Shrine of the Immaculate Conception.

"This is my shrine, my daughter. I am very pleased with it. Tell my children I thank them. Let them finish it quickly and make it a place of pilgrimage. It will be a place of wonders. I promise this. I will bless all those who, either by prayers, labor, or material aid, help to erect this shrine."

According to Sister Mary Ephrem, Our Lady often emphasized her desire that the Shrine of the Immaculate Conception in Washington, D.C., be made a place of special pilgrimage and that she be honored there under this image and the title "Our Lady of America, the Immaculate Virgin."

The Blessed Virgin Mary has promised that her statue as Our Lady of America once placed in the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception would be a safeguard for our country, and her picture or statue honored in all homes, a safeguard for the family.  She also promised that the medal would be a safeguard against evil for those who wear it with great faith and devotion.


http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2014/12/13/pope-hails-mary-as-great-missionary-who-brought-gospel-to-americas/ (http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2014/12/13/pope-hails-mary-as-great-missionary-who-brought-gospel-to-americas/)

With St Juan Diego's vision of Our Lady of Guadalupe in 1531, the Pope said, Mary "became the great missionary who brought the Gospel to our America."

Mary's Magnificat, her hymn of praise to God, he said, proclaims that God "overturns ideologies and worldly hierarchies. He raises up the humble, comes to the aid of the poor and the small, and fills with good things, blessings and hope those who trust in his mercy."

Mary did not just want to visit the Americas, the Pope said, the image on the cloak or "tilma" is a sign that "she wanted to remain with them."

"Through her intercession, the Christian faith began to become the greatest treasure" of the American peoples, Pope Francis said, a treasure "transmitted and demonstrated even today in the baptism of multitudes of people, in the faith, hope and charity of many, in their precious popular piety and in that ethos of the people who show that they know the dignity of the human person, in their passion for justice, in solidarity with the poor and suffering."

http://www.maryourmother.net/Guadalupe.html (http://www.maryourmother.net/Guadalupe.html)

The appearance of Our Lady of Guadalupe to the Aztec Indian Juan Diego in December of 1531 generated the conversion of Mexico and Latin America to Catholicism.2 Indeed, the Blessed Virgin Mary entered the very lifestream of Central America and became an inextricable part of Mexican life and a central figure to the history of Mexico itself. The three most important religious celebrations in Central and South America are Christmas, Easter, and December 12, the feast-day of Our Lady of Guadalupe. Her appearance in the center of the American continents has contributed to the Virgin of Guadalupe being given the title "Mother of America." 3

The following prayer may be viewed at - http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resources/prayers/marian-prayers/a-prayer-for-the-conversion-of-america/ (http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resources/prayers/marian-prayers/a-prayer-for-the-conversion-of-america/)

O Mary, mother of mercy and refuge of sinners, we beseech thee,
be pleased to look with pitiful eyes upon poor heretics and schismatics.

Thou who art the seat of wisdom, enlighten the minds that are miserably enfolded in the darkness of ignorance and sin, that they may clearly know that the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Roman Church is the one true Church of Jesus Christ, outside of which neither holiness nor salvation can be found.

Finish the work of their conversion by obtaining for them the grace to accept all the truths of our Holy Faith, and to submit themselves to the Supreme Roman Pontiff, the Vicar of Jesus Christ on earth; that so, being united with us in the sweet chains of divine charity, there may soon be one only fold under the same one Shepherd; and may we all, O glorious virgin, sing forever with exultation: Rejoice, O virgin Mary, thou only hast destroyed all heresies in the whole world.

The following quote of prayer for England may be read in full at - http://www.catholicdoors.com/prayers/english2/p00918.htm (http://www.catholicdoors.com/prayers/english2/p00918.htm)

O Immaculate Virgin Mother of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Mother of Grace,
and Queen of the kingdom of thy Son,
humbly kneeling before thee,
we offer thee this country in which we live.
It once was thine.
Before it was robbed of the holy Faith
all its children were thy children,
and thou wast honoured throughout its length and breadth
as its Protectress and its Queen.
Again do we consecrate it to thee;
again do we dedicate it as thine own Dowry.
We offer our own hearts,
that their love and service
may ever grow and increase.
We offer all our brethren
those multitudes who know thee so little
or know thee not at all.
May thy prayer bring back the country's ancient faith.
May thy intercession lead us to a closer union
with thy divine Son.
We consecrate ourselves to Him through thee.
Obtain for us,
and for England thy Dowry,
every grace and blessing,
O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary!

Who do you think took England away from Mary mentioned above? Was it not Protestants? Does not Rome intend to take back all that was lost through Protestantism, and return it to Mary? Yes she does. Which she continues to advance in England and here in the United States.

The following quote from prayer may be viewed in full at - http://www.catholicdoors.com/prayers/english4/p02811.htm (http://www.catholicdoors.com/prayers/english4/p02811.htm)

OUR LADY OF AMERICA
PATRONESS OF OUR LAND (AMERICA)
(By Sister Mary Ephrem, 1956)

Oh Immaculate Mother,
Queen of our country,
open our hearts, our homes,
and our land to the coming of Jesus,
your Divine Son.
With Him, reign over us, O heavenly Lady,
so pure and so bright
with the radiance of Gods light shining in and about you.
Be our leader against the powers of evil
set upon wresting the world of souls,
redeemed at such a great cost
by the sufferings of your Son and of yourself,
in union with Him, from that same Savior,
Who loves us with infinite charity.

We gather about you, O chaste and holy Mother,
Virgin Immaculate, Patroness of our beloved Land,
determined to fight under your banner of holy purity
against the wickedness that would make all the world an abyss of evil,
without God and without your loving maternal care.

We consecrate our hearts, our homes,
our Land to your Most Pure Heart, O great Queen,
that the kingdom of your Son,
our Redeemer and our God,
may be firmly established in us.

Yes, your nation has been dedicated to Mary, and selected to fight the battles of the church of Rome at her bequest.

The following quote may be viewed at - http://www.religiousliberties.org/novena/novena%20book_820pm.pdf (http://www.religiousliberties.org/novena/novena%20book_820pm.pdf)

From the foundation of the United States of America, our Bishops have expressed great trust in Mary's motherly protection. In 1792, for instance, America's first Roman Catholic Bishop, the Most Reverend John Carroll of Baltimore, chose the Blessed Mother as the Patroness of the United States and entrusted the newly created nation to her care. On May 13, 1846, the Bishops unanimously chose Mary, under the title of The Immaculate Conception, as the Patroness of our land. When the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception was dedicated in Washington D.C. in 1959, the Bishops again solemnly entrusted the country to her. Their prayer is well worth our consideration:

One can view quite a bit of Roman Catholic revisionist history on the above site. This nation was established by and large by Protestants and Protestant biblical principles of government and civil and religious liberties. This was done in direct opposition to the governing principles of Roman Catholicism and Roman Catholic nations of that time. Rome had very little to do with the founding of this nation, and our forefathers knew well enough not to trust the forming of this nation to her or her adherence, if they truly treasured freedom and liberty. Yet, if you read the info supplied at the site quoted above, you will leave it with a far different understanding of the history of our nation. Rome's pretended concern for religious liberty, is really concerning only the liberty of her own adherents. She will unite with any and all who agree with her on whatever points, to bring liberty or privilege about concerning the same. She absolutely does not support separation of church and state at all, accepting when the church or religion involved is not her own and effects her own liberties. Her ideal of religious liberty, is that liberty which she herself would grant to her subordinates.

As this nation and world become increasingly ignorant about her past, and present hidden designs, they continue to fall increasing under her usurped power. Thus are we living today, in as it were, the modern dark ages. Which darkness will only grow greater as time approaches its end for this world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38OuGFG9_ik (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38OuGFG9_ik)

An interesting video which addresses Mary from more than just the Catholic view.

http://www.albatrus.org/english/religions/pagan/pagan_origin_mary_worship.htm (http://www.albatrus.org/english/religions/pagan/pagan_origin_mary_worship.htm)

More to Mary.

Hello Amo, it's been a while since we have talked!

I want you to know this post is not directed at your person, it's directed at the video I just watched.

I have studied the scripture in detail for many years, and I believe nothing if I can't find it written there.

While watching this video I saw quite a bit of writing about Mary. I didn't see one single scripture that bears witness to these words.

How does one come to these conclusions without the Word of God bearing witness? We can't just believe it because someone said it!

Seriously, can you explain this to me?

Charlie, I think that is the point of the video, that deifying Mary has no scriptural basis.

Jaime is correct Charlie24. The videos and information I share about Mary is not in support of her veneration or worship, but to reveal the deception of the same. One of the reasons Jesus died for us, was so that we might have direct access to the throne of God with our prayers, through Him. Those who choose another route, especially knowing this truth, are at the very least in danger of loosing Christ's intercession.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

: Amo  Sat Aug 20, 2016 - 18:09:56
Jaime is correct Charlie24. The videos and information I share about Mary is not in support of her veneration or worship, but to reveal the deception of the same. One of the reasons Jesus died for us, was so that we might have direct access to the throne of God with our prayers, through Him. Those who choose another route, especially knowing this truth, are at the very least in danger of loosing Christ's intercession.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

I've been away to long Amo, I should have known you are not in support of this. Sorry Brother!

No need to apologize, a simple and common mistake. I've done the same several times before. Especially when rushing a read for whatever reason.

The following is a post from another thread, which is petinent to this thread as well.

The following information regarding Gregory the wonderworker quoted by Winsome as an early promoter of the term Mother of God, is very pertinent to the subject at hand. Gregory is the first "church father" quoted after Irenaeus, whose quote is certainly no solid evidence of the use of the term by him or during his day. It should seem no surprise at all, that the first person to receive a so called Marian vision, should also be one of the first to use the term Mother of God. Both the vision and the term I personally believe to be manifestations of deception, certainly not biblically based truths. The links provided above the following quotes are where they may be viewed in the articles they were taken from. 

http://www.awakentoprayer.org/gregory_mary_appears.htm (http://www.awakentoprayer.org/gregory_mary_appears.htm)

MARY APPEARS TO THE YOUNG GREGORY THE WONDERWORKER
 
"While [Gregory] was passing a sleepless night because of these worries, someone appeared to him in human form, aged in appearance, clothed in garments denoting a sacred dignity, with a face characterized by a sense of grace and virtue. Gregory, looking frightened, rose from his bed and asked him who he was and why he had come.

The other, in a subdued voice, after soothing his distress, told Gregory that he had appeared by divine will, because of the questions that Gregory found ambiguous and confusing, to reveal to him the truth of pious faith. After hearing these words, Gregory regained his serenity and began to observe the other man with a certain joy and wonder.

The other then held up his hand, as if to point out, with his index finger, something that had appeared opposite him. Gregory, turning his gaze in the direction indicated by the other man's hand, saw before him another figure, which had appeared not long before. This figure had the appearance of a woman, whose noble aspect far surpassed normal human beauty. Gregory was again disturbed. Turning away his face, he averted his glance and was filled with perplexity; nor did he know what to think of this apparition, which he could not bear to look upon with his eyes. For the extraordinary character of the vision lay in this: that though it was a dark night, a light was shining, and so was the figure that had appeared to him, as if a burning lamp had been kindled there.

Although he could not bear to look upon the apparition, Gregory heard the speech of those who had appeared, as they discussed the problems that were troubling him. From their words, Gregory not only obtained an exact understanding of the doctrine of the faith but also was able to discover the names of the two persons who had appeared to him, for they called each other by name.

For it is said that he heard the one who had appeared in womanly form exhorting John the Evangelist to explain to the young man the mystery of the true faith]. John, in his turn, declared that he was completely willing to please the Mother of the Lord even in this matter and that this was the one thing closest to his heart. And so the discussion coming to a close, and after they had made it quite clear and precise for him, the two disappeared from his sight."

http://www.christianitytoday.com/history/people/evangelistsandapologists/gregory-thaumaturgus.html (http://www.christianitytoday.com/history/people/evangelistsandapologists/gregory-thaumaturgus.html)

The help of Mary
Doctrinal conflicts required him to participate in several church councils that condemned false teaching. Though much more of a practical pastor than a theological writer, Gregory's writings are strong defenses of Trinitarian doctrine. According to Eastern tradition, his principal work, The Exposition of Faith, was given to him in a vision of John the Evangelist with the intercession of the Virgin Mary—the first recorded Marian apparition.

http://oramaworld.com/blog/en/author/matina/page/14/ (http://oramaworld.com/blog/en/author/matina/page/14/)

During this time, the heresy of Sabellius and Paul of Samosata began to spread. They taught falsely concerning the Holy Trinity. St Gregory prayed fervently and diligently imploring God and His most pure Mother to reveal to him the true faith. The All-Holy Virgin Mary appeared to him, radiant like the sun, and with Her was the Apostle John the Theologian dressed in archepiscopal vestments.

By the command of the Mother of God, the Apostle John taught the saint how to correctly and properly confess the Mystery of the Most Holy Trinity. St Gregory wrote down everything that St John the Theologian revealed to him.

http://www.miraclehunter.com/marian_apparitions/approved_apparitions/neocaesarea/index.html (http://www.miraclehunter.com/marian_apparitions/approved_apparitions/neocaesarea/index.html)

Summary
The Virgin Mary and the Apostle John would appeared to St. Gregory the Wonderworker (213-270), before he was ordained bishop of Neocaesarea. The apostle, at the urging of Mary, would provide all the necessary clarifications to the Saint around the theological issues, particularly on the mystery of the Trinity, then the subject of strong controversy.

The above information becomes increasingly significant when one considers that neither Clement, Mathetes, Polycarp, Ignatius, Barnabas, Papias, Justin Martyr, Hermas, Tatian, Theophilus, Athenagoras, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Minucius Felix, Commodianus, Origen, Hippolytus, Cyprian, Caius, or Novatian, ever to my knowledge used the title Mother of God in reference to Mary. Please do correct me if I am wrong.

Therefore, one of the first, if not the first "church father", to use this term Mother of God in relation to Mary was himself spoken to by Mary and John from beyond the grave. Why should any be surprised, that a title given to Mary which leant credence to a doctrine which allows for communication with Mary and other saints from beyond the grave, should come to us itself supposedly from beyond the grave? It should not. The title and the doctrines are non biblical deceptions brought to us through the father of lies himself via agents who would communicate or accept communications from the dead against the plain teachings and testimony of scripture.

Isa 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? 20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

"What a day was it!" according to the SOP and all Saturday- as well as Sunday-observers, because while Sunday "was a day of mourning" to the NT apostles, "it was a day of celebration for all the heavens" and "a day to be remembered for all time by the world". DA chapter, "He is Risen!"

: Gerhard Ebersöhn  Sat Jun 24, 2017 - 02:02:27
"What a day was it!" according to the SOP and all Saturday- as well as Sunday-observers, because while Sunday "was a day of mourning" to the NT apostles, "it was a day of celebration for all the heavens" and "a day to be remembered for all time by the world". DA chapter, "He is Risen!"

You will have to expand upon your point. I'm not sure what your point is. Are you quoting from the book The Desire of Ages? I didn't see what you quoted in the chapter The Lord is Risen. Perhaps you could provide more detail and expound upon your point.

Ellen White taught that the Lord Jesus is the antitype of the "wave sheaf", that His resurrection occurred on the day mentioned in Leviticus 23 regarding the feast of first fruits, as it is written in The Desire of Ages:

: The Desire of Ages, Chapter 81Christ arose from the dead as the first fruits of those that slept. He was the antitype of the wave sheaf, and His resurrection took place on the very day when the wave sheaf was to be presented before the Lord. For more than a thousand years this symbolic ceremony had been performed. From the harvest fields the first heads of ripened grain were gathered, and when the people went up to Jerusalem to the Passover, the sheaf of first fruits was waved as a thank offering before the Lord.

I believe that Mrs. White is right regarding the above. The Lord Jesus does represent the fulfillment of the wave sheaf offering. But it is interesting to note a couple of things here:

1. She said that the resurrection took place on the very day of the wave sheaf offering.

2. She said that the wave sheaf was "a thank offering" to God.

Before I comment on these two points, let's first look at the feast she's referring to as recorded for us in Leviticus chapter 23:

: Leviticus 23:9-149 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 10 "Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: 'When you come into the land which I give to you, and reap its harvest, then you shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest to the priest. 11 He shall wave the sheaf before the Lord, to be accepted on your behalf; on the day after the Sabbath the priest shall wave it. 12 And you shall offer on that day, when you wave the sheaf, a male lamb of the first year, without blemish, as a burnt offering to the Lord. 13 Its grain offering shall be two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil, an offering made by fire to the Lord, for a sweet aroma; and its drink offering shall be of wine, one-fourth of a hin. 14 You shall eat neither bread nor parched grain nor fresh grain until the same day that you have brought an offering to your God; it shall be a statute forever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

Just a few things to note from the passage above:

1. This is something that would be done only after the people of God came into the land He was giving them. (verse 10)

2. This is an offering that would be brought to the priest. (ibid.)

3. The priest would wave this offering before the Lord on behalf of the congregation. (verse 11)

4. This liturgical worship (all Bible worship was liturgical in nature) would take place on the day after the Sabbath, i.e. Sunday. (ibid.)

5. There were additional offerings of a lamb, grain (i.e. bread), and wine. (verses 12 & 13)

Taking these points from the aforementioned passage, I would submit that we have here the complete liturgical worship of the Church in type. We have the offering being brought to the priest, or in the context of the Church it is brought to the presiding bishop or presbyter. The offering is Christ Himself since He is the sheaf, the lamb (see 1 Corinthians 5:7), the bread (grain) and wine (see Matthew 26:26-29) which would be the Holy Communion. They offer it on behalf of themselves and the congregation. The liturgy takes place on the day after the Sabbath which is obviously Sunday. And this liturgical worship wouldn't start until the people of God entered into the land He was going to give them, i.e. the land of Canaan, the land of promise, which was a type of the Church itself, the kingdom of God on earth (compare Hebrews chapter 11:8-10 with chapter 12:22-24). The Church didn't exist before Christ promised to build it with His Holy Apostles (see Matthew 16:18), therefore the Church is the land of promise, the city whose builder and maker is God Himself.

Now if we combine the points already gleaned from Leviticus 23 with those mentioned by Ellen White we come to a complete picture. She said that Christ's resurrection happened on the very day of this liturgical worship offering of the sheaf, and she referred to it as "a thank offering" to God. I would just like to point out that the Church, from the very beginning, has celebrated the Holy Communion as Eucharist (Greek Εὐχαριστία, meaning Thanksgiving) on the Day of the Resurrection, i.e. Sunday, as her primary day of worship. This was all foretold by prophetic utterance through the Prophet Moses in Leviticus 23:9-14 which followed after the liturgical feast of the Passover (Pascha in Greek) in verses 4-8. Just as the feast of first fruits followed after Passover in the Old Covenant, even so the worship of the Church follows after the offering of Christ Himself, our Passover in the New Covenant. And according to scripture, this worship happens on the day after the Sabbath, i.e. Sunday. Therefore, the worship of the Church on Sunday, the Day of the Resurrection, the day after the Sabbath, of the Holy Eucharist (Thanksgiving) to God for His offering to us of His Son, our Passover, who conquered death for us, setting us free from its clutches, is a direct fulfillment of scripture.

: DMA  Wed Jun 28, 2017 - 09:45:50
Ellen White taught that the Lord Jesus is the antitype of the "wave sheaf", that His resurrection occurred on the day mentioned in Leviticus 23 regarding the feast of first fruits, as it is written in The Desire of Ages:

: The Desire of Ages, Chapter 81Christ arose from the dead as the first fruits of those that slept. He was the antitype of the wave sheaf, and His resurrection took place on the very day when the wave sheaf was to be presented before the Lord. For more than a thousand years this symbolic ceremony had been performed. From the harvest fields the first heads of ripened grain were gathered, and when the people went up to Jerusalem to the Passover, the sheaf of first fruits was waved as a thank offering before the Lord.

I believe that Mrs. White is right regarding the above. The Lord Jesus does represent the fulfillment of the wave sheaf offering. But it is interesting to note a couple of things here:

1. She said that the resurrection took place on the very day of the wave sheaf offering.

2. She said that the wave sheaf was "a thank offering" to God.

Before I comment on these two points, let's first look at the feast she's referring to as recorded for us in Leviticus chapter 23:

: Leviticus 23:9-149 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 10 "Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: 'When you come into the land which I give to you, and reap its harvest, then you shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest to the priest. 11 He shall wave the sheaf before the Lord, to be accepted on your behalf; on the day after the Sabbath the priest shall wave it. 12 And you shall offer on that day, when you wave the sheaf, a male lamb of the first year, without blemish, as a burnt offering to the Lord. 13 Its grain offering shall be two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil, an offering made by fire to the Lord, for a sweet aroma; and its drink offering shall be of wine, one-fourth of a hin. 14 You shall eat neither bread nor parched grain nor fresh grain until the same day that you have brought an offering to your God; it shall be a statute forever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

Just a few things to note from the passage above:

1. This is something that would be done only after the people of God came into the land He was giving them. (verse 10)

2. This is an offering that would be brought to the priest. (ibid.)

3. The priest would wave this offering before the Lord on behalf of the congregation. (verse 11)

4. This liturgical worship (all Bible worship was liturgical in nature) would take place on the day after the Sabbath, i.e. Sunday. (ibid.)

5. There were additional offerings of a lamb, grain (i.e. bread), and wine. (verses 12 & 13)

Taking these points from the aforementioned passage, I would submit that we have here the complete liturgical worship of the Church in type. We have the offering being brought to the priest, or in the context of the Church it is brought to the presiding bishop or presbyter. The offering is Christ Himself since He is the sheaf, the lamb (see 1 Corinthians 5:7), the bread (grain) and wine (see Matthew 26:26-29) which would be the Holy Communion. They offer it on behalf of themselves and the congregation. The liturgy takes place on the day after the Sabbath which is obviously Sunday. And this liturgical worship wouldn't start until the people of God entered into the land He was going to give them, i.e. the land of Canaan, the land of promise, which was a type of the Church itself, the kingdom of God on earth (compare Hebrews chapter 11:8-10 with chapter 12:22-24). The Church didn't exist before Christ promised to build it with His Holy Apostles (see Matthew 16:18), therefore the Church is the land of promise, the city whose builder and maker is God Himself.

Now if we combine the points already gleaned from Leviticus 23 with those mentioned by Ellen White we come to a complete picture. She said that Christ's resurrection happened on the very day of this liturgical worship offering of the sheaf, and she referred to it as "a thank offering" to God. I would just like to point out that the Church, from the very beginning, has celebrated the Holy Communion as Eucharist (Greek Εὐχαριστία, meaning Thanksgiving) on the Day of the Resurrection, i.e. Sunday, as her primary day of worship. This was all foretold by prophetic utterance through the Prophet Moses in Leviticus 23:9-14 which followed after the liturgical feast of the Passover (Pascha in Greek) in verses 4-8. Just as the feast of first fruits followed after Passover in the Old Covenant, even so the worship of the Church follows after the offering of Christ Himself, our Passover in the New Covenant. And according to scripture, this worship happens on the day after the Sabbath, i.e. Sunday. Therefore, the worship of the Church on Sunday, the Day of the Resurrection, the day after the Sabbath, of the Holy Eucharist (Thanksgiving) to God for His offering to us of His Son, our Passover, who conquered death for us, setting us free from its clutches, is a direct fulfillment of scripture.

Of course Ellen White was not saying what you are at all. What you are saying is extra biblical, what she was saying is scriptural. There is nothing in scripture about your theory for establishing Sunday sacredness, apart from you building that theory yourself according to what you already believe, not what is or has been taught in the scriptures themselves. The scriptures make the connection between the first fruits and the resurrection, but do not address your theory concerning Sunday sacredness at all. All emphasis in the following quotes and scripture is mine.

Acts 26:22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

1 For 15:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles. 12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Christ was "the firstfruits of them that slept", or the dead that have been saved in Him.

Rev 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God. 6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. 8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. 9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. 12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. 13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them. 14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. 16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. 17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. 18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. 19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

Those who follow Jesus Christ by keeping the commandments of God and having the faith of Jesus, are the first fruits of the harvests of the earth at Christ's second coming. They stand in contrast to those who worship the beast and his image. The call of the first angel in the above messages to be given shortly before Christ's second coming, is to worship Him who created heaven and earth, exactly what the fourth commandment calls for. Your message calls for the abandonment of that very commandment in favor of worship on a different day and for modified reasons. This places you outside of the group who keep the commandments of God, and have the of Jesus. Your teachings contradict the teachings and living example of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Perhaps you should reconsider the implications of which harvest you will be a part of according to your teachings. You are supporting the abandonment of one of the commandments of God, and a form and day of worship that has already been forced upon may throughout history. While there are may today seeking to force that same day and worship upon all again if they could. Are you not supporting Babylon the Great in her endeavors?

The Synod of Laodicea - 343-381 A.D. - furnishes a decree which is quoted by many:
"Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday [Sabbatum is always used for the Sabbath and is translated Saturday in the English edition of Hefele], but shall work on that day; but the Lord's-day they shall especially honor, and as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If, however, they are found Judaizing they shall be shut out from Christ. (Canon 29, Hefele, Vol. 2, p. 316.)

The following is from the CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.

Sunday- fulfillment of the sabbath
2175 Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ's Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:[107] 
Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death.[108]

2176 The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all."[109] Sunday worship fulfills the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people.

A day of grace and rest from work
2184 Just as God "rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had done,"[121] human life has a rhythm of work and rest. The institution of the Lord's Day helps everyone enjoy adequate rest and leisure to cultivate their familial, cultural, social, and religious lives.[122]

2185 On Sundays and other holy days of obligation, the faithful are to refrain from engaging in work or activities that hinder the worship owed to God, the joy proper to the Lord's Day, the performance of the works of mercy, and the appropriate relaxation of mind and body.[123] Family needs or important social service can legitimately excuse from the obligation of Sunday rest. The faithful should see to it that legitimate excuses do not lead to habits prejudicial to religion, family life, and health. 
The charity of truth seeks holy leisure- the necessity of charity accepts just work.[124]

2186 Those Christians who have leisure should be mindful of their brethren who have the same needs and the same rights, yet cannot rest from work because of poverty and misery. Sunday is traditionally consecrated by Christian piety to good works and humble service of the sick, the infirm, and the elderly. Christians will also sanctify Sunday by devoting time and care to their families and relatives, often difficult to do on other days of the week. Sunday is a time for reflection, silence, cultivation of the mind, and meditation which furthers the growth of the Christian interior life.

2187 Sanctifying Sundays and holy days requires a common effort. Every Christian should avoid making unnecessary demands on others that would hinder them from observing the Lord's Day. Traditional activities (sport, restaurants, etc.), and social necessities (public services, etc.), require some people to work on Sundays, but everyone should still take care to set aside sufficient time for leisure. With temperance and charity the faithful will see to it that they avoid the excesses and violence sometimes associated with popular leisure activities. In spite of economic constraints, public authorities should ensure citizens a time intended for rest and divine worship. Employers have a similar obligation toward their employees.

2188 In respecting religious liberty and the common good of all, Christians should seek recognition of Sundays and the Church's holy days as legal holidays. They have to give everyone a public example of prayer, respect, and joy and defend their traditions as a precious contribution to the spiritual life of society. If a country's legislation or other reasons require work on Sunday, the day should nevertheless be lived as the day of our deliverance which lets us share in this "festal gathering," this "assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven."[125]

IN BRIEF
2189 "Observe the sabbath day, to keep it holy" (Deut 5:12). "The seventh day is a sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the Lord" (Ex 31:15).

2190 The sabbath, which represented the completion of the first creation, has been replaced by Sunday which recalls the new creation inaugurated by the Resurrection of Christ.

2191 The Church celebrates the day of Christ's Resurrection on the "eighth day," Sunday, which is rightly called the Lord's Day (cf. SC 106).

2192 "Sunday . . . is to be observed as the foremost holy day of obligation in the universal Church" (CIC, can. 1246 # 1). "On Sundays and other holy days of obligation the faithful are bound to participate in the Mass" (CIC, can. 1247).

2193 "On Sundays and other holy days of obligation the faithful are bound . . . to abstain from those labors and business concerns which impede the worship to be rendered to God, the joy which is proper to the Lord's Day, or the proper relaxation of mind and body" (CIC, can. 1247).

2194 The institution of Sunday helps all "to be allowed sufficient rest and leisure to cultivate their amilial, cultural, social, and religious lives" (GS 67 # 3).

2195 Every Christian should avoid making unnecessary demands on others that would hinder them from observing the Lord's Day.

And this liturgical worship wouldn't start until the people of God entered into the land He was going to give them, i.e. the land of Canaan, the land of promise, which was a type of the Church itself, the kingdom of God on earth (compare Hebrews chapter 11:8-10 with chapter 12:22-24).

The land of Canaan was a type of heaven, not the Church of Christ in this world constantly being persecuted by those around them. You stopped short of the full meaning of the first fruits and added your own to it, and now you stop short of the final fulfillment of the land of promise as well, in order support your own unbiblical teachings.

Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: 10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. 11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable. 13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

2 Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. 6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

 

I would just like to point out that the Church, from the very beginning, has celebrated the Holy Communion as Eucharist (Greek Εὐχαριστία, meaning Thanksgiving) on the Day of the Resurrection, i.e. Sunday, as her primary day of worship.

No it did not. This is another extra biblical claim of yours, to support your own unbiblical teachings. Sunday sacredness and Sunday as a day of worship instituted by Christ or the Apostles is found nowhere in scripture. At least the Roman Catholic Church has admitted this much in the past.

You will have to expand upon your point. I'm not sure what your point is. Are you quoting from the book The Desire of Ages? I didn't see what you quoted in the chapter The Lord is Risen. Perhaps you could provide more detail and expound upon your point.

Then you haven't read with attention. It is there, written in plain print letter by letter. Read the chapter after as well.

I had the book twice in my life. The first one I gave to a SDA pastor together with my whole library of E.G. White's books after I left the church. Many years later I received an extract as a gift, titled, 'The Passion of Love' or something. And this was where I quoted from. That book I donated with my whole library to the University of Potchefstroom, so I don't have it available anymore to give you page and paragraph. But I am telling you now, that is what is written in Desire of Ages. The first time I referred to these pronouncements by E. G. White on an internet discussion board, 'Babtistboard.com', it was in a discourse with 'BobRyan'. IT IS ARCHIVED in BB's archives. And I backed them up myself. You will find those discussions in my google cloud. Why I tell you this? Because I was the first and only person yet to have used publication of the SDA church of Mrs Whites writings through internet re THESE QUOTES, which I POSTED in those discussions on BB. I repeated the internet references in our debate, and when I checked them up again THEY WERE CUT OUT and were no more to be found. Even BobRyan tried to apologise and said something must have happened so that the internet version no longer correlated with the physical book, DA!

I don't know what happened after, but enter the quotes I gave you on the search engine of the Ellen White trustees or whatever they / it may be called nowadays. Best of course remains, go read properly, and don't come an tell me stories. There are tens of thousands of paper editions of DA in the world.

Mrs White E.G. wrote that book; the SDA church published that book and still does. And over and above there is God Almighty the True and Only Witness. Mrs. White and the SDA church TEACH SUNDAY VENERATION.

But what is a greater truth, is that Mrs E. G. White and the SDA church STOLE THE SABBATH DAY'S ONLY HONOUR --the honour of having been the day Jesus Christ ROSE FROM THE DEAD ON, and changed the Times and Law of GOD, and bestowed that only honour ON THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK, SUNDAY. It is an historical fact.

DMA:

Ellen White taught that the Lord Jesus is the antitype of the "wave sheaf", that His resurrection occurred on the day mentioned in Leviticus 23 regarding the feast of first fruits, as it is written in The Desire of Ages:

Quote from: The Desire of Ages, Chapter 81
Christ arose from the dead as the first fruits of those that slept. He was the antitype of the wave sheaf, and His resurrection took place on the very day when the wave sheaf was to be presented before the Lord. For more than a thousand years this symbolic ceremony had been performed. From the harvest fields the first heads of ripened grain were gathered, and when the people went up to Jerusalem to the Passover, the sheaf of first fruits was waved as a thank offering before the Lord.

I believe that Mrs. White is right regarding the above. The Lord Jesus does represent the fulfillment of the wave sheaf offering. But it is interesting to note a couple of things here:

1. She said that the resurrection took place on the very day of the wave sheaf offering.

2. She said that the wave sheaf was "a thank offering" to God.

Before I comment on these two points, let's first look at the feast she's referring to as recorded for us in Leviticus chapter 23:

Quote from: Leviticus 23:9-14
9 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 10 "Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: 'When you come into the land which I give to you, and reap its harvest, then you shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest to the priest. 11 He shall wave the sheaf before the Lord, to be accepted on your behalf; on the day after the Sabbath the priest shall wave it. 12 And you shall offer on that day, when you wave the sheaf, a male lamb of the first year, without blemish, as a burnt offering to the Lord. 13 Its grain offering shall be two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil, an offering made by fire to the Lord, for a sweet aroma; and its drink offering shall be of wine, one-fourth of a hin. 14 You shall eat neither bread nor parched grain nor fresh grain until the same day that you have brought an offering to your God; it shall be a statute forever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

Just a few things to note from the passage above:

1. This is something that would be done only after the people of God came into the land He was giving them. (verse 10)

2. This is an offering that would be brought to the priest. (ibid.)

3. The priest would wave this offering before the Lord on behalf of the congregation. (verse 11)

4. This liturgical worship (all Bible worship was liturgical in nature) would take place on the day after the Sabbath, i.e. Sunday. (ibid.)

5. There were additional offerings of a lamb, grain (i.e. bread), and wine. (verses 12 & 13)

Taking these points from the aforementioned passage, I would submit that we have here the complete liturgical worship of the Church in type. We have the offering being brought to the priest, or in the context of the Church it is brought to the presiding bishop or presbyter. The offering is Christ Himself since He is the sheaf, the lamb (see 1 Corinthians 5:7), the bread (grain) and wine (see Matthew 26:26-29) which would be the Holy Communion. They offer it on behalf of themselves and the congregation. The liturgy takes place on the day after the Sabbath which is obviously Sunday. And this liturgical worship wouldn't start until the people of God entered into the land He was going to give them, i.e. the land of Canaan, the land of promise, which was a type of the Church itself, the kingdom of God on earth (compare Hebrews chapter 11:8-10 with chapter 12:22-24). The Church didn't exist before Christ promised to build it with His Holy Apostles (see Matthew 16:18), therefore the Church is the land of promise, the city whose builder and maker is God Himself.

Now if we combine the points already gleaned from Leviticus 23 with those mentioned by Ellen White we come to a complete picture. She said that Christ's resurrection happened on the very day of this liturgical worship offering of the sheaf, and she referred to it as "a thank offering" to God. I would just like to point out that the Church, from the very beginning, has celebrated the Holy Communion as Eucharist (Greek Εὐχαριστία, meaning Thanksgiving) on the Day of the Resurrection, i.e. Sunday, as her primary day of worship. This was all foretold by prophetic utterance through the Prophet Moses in Leviticus 23:9-14 which followed after the liturgical feast of the Passover (Pascha in Greek) in verses 4-8. Just as the feast of first fruits followed after Passover in the Old Covenant, even so the worship of the Church follows after the offering of Christ Himself, our Passover in the New Covenant. And according to scripture, this worship happens on the day after the Sabbath, i.e. Sunday. Therefore, the worship of the Church on Sunday, the Day of the Resurrection, the day after the Sabbath, of the Holy Eucharist (Thanksgiving) to God for His offering to us of His Son, our Passover, who conquered death for us, setting us free from its clutches, is a direct fulfillment of scripture.

It is good to argue with straight forward, clear and plain argument. Both ways.

I find one objectionable ASSUMPTION the basis and crux of your whole argumentation though, 'the day after the Sabbath, i.e. Sunday'. I am sure you know the counter
and true and only correct, stance.

: Gerhard Ebersöhn  Fri Oct 27, 2017 - 14:34:58
Then you haven't read with attention. It is there, written in plain print letter by letter. Read the chapter after as well.

I had the book twice in my life. The first one I gave to a SDA pastor together with my whole library of E.G. White's books after I left the church. Many years later I received an extract as a gift, titled, 'The Passion of Love' or something. And this was where I quoted from. That book I donated with my whole library to the University of Potchefstroom, so I don't have it available anymore to give you page and paragraph. But I am telling you now, that is what is written in Desire of Ages. The first time I referred to these pronouncements by E. G. White on an internet discussion board, 'Babtistboard.com', it was in a discourse with 'BobRyan'. IT IS ARCHIVED in BB's archives. And I backed them up myself. You will find those discussions in my google cloud. Why I tell you this? Because I was the first and only person yet to have used publication of the SDA church of Mrs Whites writings through internet re THESE QUOTES, which I POSTED in those discussions on BB. I repeated the internet references in our debate, and when I checked them up again THEY WERE CUT OUT and were no more to be found. Even BobRyan tried to apologise and said something must have happened so that the internet version no longer correlated with the physical book, DA!

I don't know what happened after, but enter the quotes I gave you on the search engine of the Ellen White trustees or whatever they / it may be called nowadays. Best of course remains, go read properly, and don't come an tell me stories. There are tens of thousands of paper editions of DA in the world.

Mrs White E.G. wrote that book; the SDA church published that book and still does. And over and above there is God Almighty the True and Only Witness. Mrs. White and the SDA church TEACH SUNDAY VENERATION.

But what is a greater truth, is that Mrs E. G. White and the SDA church STOLE THE SABBATH DAY'S ONLY HONOUR --the honour of having been the day Jesus Christ ROSE FROM THE DEAD ON, and changed the Times and Law of GOD, and bestowed that only honour ON THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK, SUNDAY. It is an historical fact.

Your problem is not with EGW or the SDA church, it is with scripture. According to scripture Christ rose on Sunday. As of yet the SDA church does not venerate Sunday sacredness, though in the future no doubt many professing to be SDA will. If you have been keeping up with this SDA thread at all, and think it is involved in the veneration of Sunday sacredness, I can only conclude that you are either willingly ignorant of what has been discussed here, or are in very serious denial of the same. 
Christ rose on Sunday, a most monumental event in the history of humanity. This does not mean in any way shape or form that the day was or is meant to replace Christ's seventh day Sabbath. The scriptures do not support any such notion.

Mt 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. 2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. 3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow: 4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men. 5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified. 6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. 7 And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.


Mk 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. 2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun. 3 And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre? 4 And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great. 5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted. 6 And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him..........................................
9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.


Lk 24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. 2 And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre. 3 And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus. 4 And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments: 5 And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead? 6 He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee, 7 Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.


Jn 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre. 2 Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him. 3 Peter therefore went forth, and that other disciple, and came to the sepulchre. 4 So they ran both together: and the other disciple did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre. 5 And he stooping down, and looking in, saw the linen clothes lying; yet went he not in. 6 Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie, 7 And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself. 8 Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed. 9 For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead. 10 Then the disciples went away again unto their own home. 11 But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, and looked into the sepulchre, 12 And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain. 13 And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they have laid him. 14 And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus. 15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away. 16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. 18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her. 19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. 20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.

The above testimony is what you need to address and prove wrong if you want to convince anyone of what you are claiming. It is scripture, and therefore above all other testimony and of the greatest authority. EGW and SDA's believe it above your or any other testimony. Prove this wrong, and we can go from there.

Don't try run away from the only thing disputed here and now, which is, that Ellen White wrote in the DA what she wrote in the DA about Sunday AS the day on which Jesus according to her and all SDA rose from the dead, and that all SDA BELIEVE HER and are not SDA if they don't believe her.

: Gerhard Ebersöhn  Sun Oct 29, 2017 - 18:39:32
Don't try run away from the only thing disputed here and now, which is, that Ellen White wrote in the DA what she wrote in the DA about Sunday AS the day on which Jesus according to her and all SDA rose from the dead, and that all SDA BELIEVE HER and are not SDA if they don't believe her.

Nobody is running away from anything, save in your own head perhaps. It is right for SDA's and all others to believe what the bible conclusively states, that Jesus rose on the first day of the week. Any SDA or otherwise that believes anything according to EGW or anyone else above a conflicting testimony from scripture, is seeing things backwards and in danger of deception.

The above testimony is what you need to address and prove wrong if you want to convince anyone of what you are claiming. It is scripture, and therefore above all other testimony and of the greatest authority. EGW and SDA's believe it above your or any other testimony. Prove this wrong, and we can go from there.

I don't have to proof a thing. It is you and SDA and rest of Christianity who have to prove because ALL Scripture, especially these Scriptures you have now quoted, witness to the most basic and essential Truth of the WHOLE Bible that Jesus Christ 1) WOULD, and 2) DID rise from the dead, death and grave "the third day...ON THE SABBATH". Matthew 27:62-28:4.

Matthew 28:1 IN the end of the Sabbath, as it mid-afternoon began to dawn toward the First Day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary set out TO see the sepulchre 2 when suddenly there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it : 3 his countenance like lightning, and his raiment white as snow : 4 and for fear of him the keepers convulsing like ones dying. 5 And the angel answered / explained and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified. 6 He is not here: for he IS RISEN as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord LAY. 7 And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he IS RISEN from the dead. And, behold, he [Sunday morning already] is on his way before you to Galilee; there
shall ye [during 40 days] see him : lo, I have told you.


Mark 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
No resurrection! Resurrection was "mid-afternoon Sabbath" at least three hours ago!


Mark 16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun. 3 And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre? 4 And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away [Resurrection PAST]: for it was very great. 5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted. 6 And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him..........................................

Mark 16:9 Now when Jesus was risen=RISEN, He, early the first day of the week APPEARED [Verb of the sentence] first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
NO resurrection, no ACT of rising but of APPEARING!

Lk 24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. 2 And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre. 3 And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.
NO resurrection, no ACT of rising but of FINDING NO BODY!

John 20:1 On the First Day of the week comes Mary Magdalene BEING STILL EARLY DARK = DUSK [after sunset, evening] to [not 'in'] the sepulchre, and sees the STONE [not the grave or inside it] taken away from the sepulchre. 2 Then she runs [back and didn't go in], and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him. [She thought Jesus was still dead!]

John 3:3 Peter therefore went forth, and that other disciple, and came to the sepulchre. 4 So they ran both together: and the other disciple did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre. 5 And he stooping down, and looking in, saw the linen clothes lying; yet went he not in. 6 Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie, 7 And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself. 8 Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed [what Mary had told them; and she did not tell them Jesus resurrected!]. 9 For as yet they knew not the Scripture, that he had to rise again from the dead. 10 THEN the disciples went away again unto their own home. 11 But Mary HAD HAD stood after without at the sepulchre, weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, and looked into the sepulchre, 12 And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain. 13 And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they have laid him. [Mary was still thinking Jesus was dead! Not raised!] 14 And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus. 15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener [who would start working sunrise], saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away. 16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. 18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her. Cf., Mark 16:9.

John 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. 20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
For what do you bring this Scripture here, to prove Jesus rose from the grave on Sunday evening?!

Nobody is running away from anything, save in your own head perhaps. It is right for SDA's and all others to believe what the bible conclusively states, that Jesus rose on the first day of the week. Any SDA or otherwise that believes anything according to EGW or anyone else above a conflicting testimony from scripture, is seeing things backwards and in danger of deception.

PLACE the Scripture HERE, WHERE 'the bible conclusively states, that Jesus rose on the first day of the week.'! I, this lowest of stones that shall shout out the Truth, DARE YOU AND ANY! and will show you, 'backward things' of 'deception' and fraud to compromise the Sabbath of the LORD for the sake of SUNDAY WORSHIP SACREDNESS: LIKE MRS WHITE DID.

I'll give you this much, the bible does not say the exact words that Jesus rose on Sunday or the first day of the week. Nor does it say anywhere, that He rose on the Sabbath day. The former though, is most certainly inferred and logically concluded by that which is said.

Mt 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

The Sabbath ends at sun down Saturday. The only dawn logically being referred to in the above statement, would be dawn on the first day of the week which began at sundown Saturday. If there were any real issue of confusion on the matter, which I do not believe there is, other scriptural testimony certainly clears any misunderstanding up.

Mk 15:42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,.....................
16:1And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. 2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.....................................................
9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

Jesus died on the preparation day before the Sabbath. When the Sabbath was past, early in the morning on the first day of the week which began sundown Saturday night, they went to the sepulcher. While the above does not establish that Jesus actually rose on the first day, it certainly does not establish either that He rose on the Sabbath. In either case, no one knew about the resurrection until Sunday morning, and neither Christ nor any angels ever said He rose on the Sabbath. To the contrary, Jesus' resurrection is only referred to in relation to the first day of the week as in verse nine, never the seventh day of the week or Sabbath. The most logical conclusion regarding the matter is that Christ rose right before or at dawn on the first day of the week. Even if you want to insist that verse nine only says Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, not that He rose early the first day of the week, no scripture says that He rose on the Sabbath. Which Sabbath ended several hours before dawn on the first day of the week.

Lk 23:52 This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. 53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid. 54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on. 55 And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid. 56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. 2 And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre. 3 And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus. 4 And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments: 5 And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead? 6 He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,

Again, the Sabbath was already past, having been observed before going to the sepulcher. The angels simply testified that Jesus had risen, not that He rose before sundown on the Sabbath. There is no logical reason for concluding such, without any statement to that effect.

John 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. 32 Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him. 33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs: 34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. 35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.

John 20:1The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.....................................
19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

All scriptural testimony points to Christ's resurrection occurring some time after sundown Sabbath, which is the end of the Sabbath, and either during the evening of the first day off the week, or at dawn on the first day of the week. No scripture says, or even hints that Christ rose on Sabbath before sundown. Any who believe so simply chose to do this apart from any scriptural testimony or inclination. Believe as you wish, but you cannot make the scriptures out to testify that Christ rose on the Sabbath, or deny that they certainly highly suggest that He did rise on the first day of the week. Nevertheless, and again, none of this changes any of the ten commandments of God including the fourth, nor was ever meant to. Those who wish to maintain a man made tradition of Sunday sacredness certainly have a right to do so, but they have no right to force their tradition upon others as they have, do, and will continue to do so. Nor do they have any support from scripture concerning either. To the contrary, God Himself has chosen their deception and allowed for the exaltation of the same, according to His own plans. That all may be decided concerning a relatively simply issue which clearly identifies one's motives concerning God, before He returns to end and settle all matters of this very temporary world.

God established both the seventh day Sabbath, and the mortality of mankind at creation and recorded both in the testimony of His word to the same. The final deception will include a repudiation of both of the same.

I'll give you this much, the bible does not say the exact words that Jesus rose on Sunday or the first day of the week. Nor does it say anywhere, that He rose on the Sabbath day. The former though, is most certainly inferred and logically concluded by that which is said.

Nor does the New Testament say that Jesus rose on any day of the week. It says many times that Christ rose; but not in so many words ever, 'on' or 'in' this, or 'on' or 'in' that, day of the week, because it not at all says Christ, 'rose', on or in this or that, or, 'rose', after this or that day of the week. That Jesus 'rose' on a day of the week is always implied, and the day of the week implied is always, certainly, and only, the Sabbath yet only, implied. But... Never on a Sunday, a Sunday.... tra la la... nice love song, but not Gospel. Not the Gospels not the New Testament say in direct words either, Jesus rose on the Sabbath, or, Jesus rose on the First Day.

The New Testament as the Old Testament never in the least even suggests Christ would rise from the dead on the First Day of the week though. But both, throughout and clearly and abundantly, promise and prophesy and figure forth and prove, that He would and had to and eventually actually did rise from the grave and death, "on the day, the Seventh Day, Sabbath : OF THE LORD GOD."

In the Old Testament not surprising, one does find one statement in so many words that the LORD, Jesus Christ, "revived on the Seventh Day". Exodus 31:17.

The moment one claims that the New Testament states that Jesus in so many words rose on the Sabbath or that Jesus in so many words rose on the First Day, he at once with his arrogance proves his ignorance and inability to rightly deal with God's Word.

Amo:

I'll give you this much, the bible does not say the exact words that Jesus rose on Sunday or the first day of the week. Nor does it say anywhere, that He rose on the Sabbath day. The former though, is most certainly inferred and logically concluded by that which is said.

Mt 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

The Sabbath ends at sun down Saturday. The only dawn logically being referred to in the above statement, would be dawn on the first day of the week which began at sundown Saturday. If there were any real issue of confusion on the matter, which I do not believe there is, other scriptural testimony certainly clears any misunderstanding up.

GE answers:
It was by that which Amo said: "on Sunday or the first day of the week"
It was by that which Matthew said: "toward the first day of the week"

It was by that which Amo said: "dawn on the first day of the week"
It was by that which Matthew said: "in the end of / late on the sabbath"
So much for 'certain inference' and 'logical conclusion' to Amo's 'understanding'. There is much more that must be inferred and concluded but cannot be read so literally in English as in the Greek, must also be 'understood'.

The Sabbath ends at sun down Saturday. The only dawn logically being referred to in the above statement, would be dawn on the first day of the week which began at sundown Saturday. If there were any real issue of confusion on the matter, which I do not believe there is, other scriptural testimony certainly clears any misunderstanding up.

GE answers:
The Sabbath ends, sun down (Saturday) when every eye can see it. But, "As it on the Sabbath began to dawn towards the First Day", it "being-mid-afternoon in the end of the Sabbath", everyone could see "it began to dawn towards the First Day of the week".

'The only dawn logically being referred to in' Matthew 28:1, 'would be', and because it's in Matthew 28:1 which is Scripture, in fact was from, "mid-afternoon late on the Sabbath, towards the First Day of the week" starting 'sundown Saturday' sharp. Which 'dawn' then actually began "mid-afternoon" three hours before, 'sundown Saturday'!

If there were any real issue of confusion on the matter, which I do not believe there is, other scriptural testimony certainly clears any misunderstanding up.

Mk 15:42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,.....................
16:1And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome,

GE answers:
You have quoted, exactly,
Q~Mk 15:42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,......~Q

Now tell me two things,
First, How the heck achieved you that giant jump, from, Q~the day before the sabbath,~Q  to,  Q~6:1And when the sabbath was past~Q?!

O I know how! With SDA right of Scripture interpretation! Don't worry, SDA aren't restricted by what's written under '.............', they have the SOP that elevates them above mortals like those who still depend on what has been buried under the thin, perforated, film of '............'.

Now tell me the other thing,
Two, What the heck have you buried under, Q~the day before the sabbath,.....................16:1And when the sabbath was past~Q?!
That Q~Jesus died on the preparation day before the Sabbath. When the Sabbath was past, early in the morning on the first day of the week~Q?!
Too fantasic for words or comprehension the brilliance of the SDA! The cunning, so masterly!

Wait, don't get too elated. You only managed to clear jump the abbyss all usual good Christian believers before you have been misled to follow over after their leaders. God will bring them, and you, all to task for it yet, don't worry.

Amo:

Jesus died on the preparation day before the Sabbath.

GE:
You cannot quote anything like 'Jesus died' from the space in or between Mark 15:42 and 16:1. So you inserted your dots instead

Amo:

When the Sabbath was past, early in the morning on the first day of the week which began sundown Saturday night, they went to the sepulcher.

GE:
They didn't go to the sepulcher; they went to the grocer and "bought spices".

Amo:

While the above does not establish that Jesus actually rose on the first day, it certainly does not establish either that He rose on the Sabbath.

GE:
What have you expected? When Joseph arrived, he had not even buried the body of Jesus!

Amo:

In either case, no one knew about the resurrection until Sunday morning

GE:
Exactly. Does that say that He rose on the First Day? Not rather that He HAD resurrected the day before, "on the Sabbath"?

Amo:

neither Christ nor any angels ever said He rose on the Sabbath.

GE:
Who said they said? But Jesus, said, that the Servant --ox or donkey-- of the Lord on the Sabbath would be lifted from the pit and given living water to drink.

Amo:

To the contrary, Jesus' resurrection is only referred to in relation to the first day of the week as in verse nine, never the seventh day of the week or Sabbath.

GE:
Non sequitur... we're not referring to 'verse nine' which is Mark 16:9 now never seen before in this discussion! Another giant leap of yours for mankind?! From Mark 15:42 to Mark 16:9 covering Crucifixion to Resurrection as if nothing in between whatsoever in Mark or in any other Gospel happened... amazing vacuous 'logic', 'The most logical conclusion regarding the matter is that Christ rose right before or at dawn on the first day of the week'!

Amo:

Even if you want to insist that verse nine only says Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, not that He rose early the first day of the week, no scripture says that He rose on the Sabbath. Which Sabbath ended several hours before dawn on the first day of the week.

GE:
Again 'the matter' here and now is not about Mark16:9; it's about you alleging Christ resurrected in the text starting in Mark 15:42. Pure futility of course.

And again, no one says (me too, remember!), 'scripture says that He rose on the Sabbath.' If you mean I do, then you're clearly lying, simply--- unless you mean Scripture 'says', by implication, sure, I insist!

But you are perfectly correct, it's unambiguous,
Amo:

Which Sabbath ended several hours before dawn on the first day of the week.

GE:
It is high time you see that, yourself!

You may of course believe whatever you choose. There is a big difference between trying to establish the truth of a matter, and simply trying to create confusion concerning it. I leave you to your nonsense. Christ was not raised on the Sabbath, He was at rest in the sleep of death and likely rose at the dawn of light rather than the darkness of night. Even if He did rise at night, it was the evening of the first day, not the Sabbath.

Amo:

Lk 23:52 This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. 53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid. 54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on. 55 And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid. 56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. 2 And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre. 3 And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus. 4 And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments: 5 And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead? 6 He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,

Again, the Sabbath was already past, having been observed before going to the sepulcher. The angels simply testified that Jesus had risen, not that He rose before sundown on the Sabbath. There is no logical reason for concluding such, without any statement to that effect.

Again, the Sabbath was already past, having been observed before anyone got to the sepulcher. True; I said no less, no more, no different.

Now, Q~The angels simply testified that Jesus had risen~Q True; I said no less, no more, no different. So what's your problem? This...

Amo:

...not that He rose before sundown on the Sabbath.

GE answers:
That isn't correct or true. It's false; it directly contradicts what is written in Matthew 28:5a and what only Matthew wrote, the "ANGEL EXPLAINED / ANSWERED the women" about the conclusive EVIDENCE that Jesus resurrected: "on the Sabbath late, being in the mid-afternoon daylight of the Sabbath, as it began to dawn towards the First Day of the week ... and there suddenly was a great earthquake ...".
Yes, the report was it of only this angel who —on Sunday morning—, "informed the women" thus.

There is no 'logical reason for concluding such', needed, of course not; we have the testimony of the angel who "testified / explained / informed / witnessed". What would any true believer need else or better or to the contrary 'to the effect' that Jesus did not rise "on the Sabbath late, being in the mid-afternoon daylight of the Sabbath, as it began to dawn towards the First Day of the week ... and there suddenly was a great earthquake ..."? It's absurd!

You may of course believe whatever you choose. There is a big difference between trying to establish the truth of a matter, and simply trying to create confusion concerning it. I leave you to your nonsense. Christ was not raised on the Sabbath, He was at rest in the sleep of death and likely rose at the dawn of light rather than the darkness of night. Even if He did rise at night, it was the evening of the first day, not the Sabbath. 

For lack of self-confidence, lack of Scripture, lack of Truth, lack of order to the confusion... my condolences.

Amo:

John 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. 32 Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him. 33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs: 34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. 35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.

John 20:1The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.....................................
19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

All scriptural testimony points to Christ's resurrection occurring some time after sundown Sabbath, which is the end of the Sabbath, and either during the evening of the first day off the week, or at dawn on the first day of the week.

GE answers:
There is no 'scriptural testimony points to Christ's resurrection occurring some time after sundown Sabbath'. You haven't presented any, 'scriptural testimony'; you never will, because there never will be Scriptural testimony than what there at present is.

Amo:

some time after sundown Sabbath, which is the end of the Sabbath, and either during the evening of the first day off the week, or at dawn on the first day of the week.

GE answers:
Any time 'after sundown Sabbath', is 'during the evening of the first day off the week'.
Correct! Did I say something else?!
But how can what is 'during the evening of the first day off the week', be 'at dawn on the first day of the week'?! It's absurd again!

And here you are doing it, again, burying everything in between John 20:1 and John 20:19 under '..........' as if it never occurred and 20:1 and verse 19 happened at once while there was at least 24 hours, yes, a whole day and the dusk of the second day, in between!
Now remember, This, you, selected under the comprehensive list of texts in which 'the bible says', though not in 'the exact words', 'that Jesus rose on Sunday or the first day of the week', 'the same day'—three, nay, four days before! AND with which you ostensibly prove,
Amo:

All scriptural testimony points to Christ's resurrection occurring some time after sundown Sabbath, which is the end of the Sabbath, and either during the evening of the first day off the week, or at dawn on the first day of the week.

GE answers:
Flabbergasting! Flabbergastingly dishonest, sir; Sir SDA!

Amo:

No scripture says, or even hints that Christ rose on Sabbath before sundown. Any who believe so simply chose to do this apart from any scriptural testimony or inclination. Believe as you wish, but you cannot make the scriptures out to testify that Christ rose on the Sabbath, or deny that they certainly highly suggest that He did rise on the first day of the week. Nevertheless, and again, none of this changes any of the ten commandments of God including the fourth, nor was ever meant to. Those who wish to maintain a man made tradition of Sunday sacredness certainly have a right to do so, but they have no right to force their tradition upon others as they have, do, and will continue to do so. Nor do they have any support from scripture concerning either. To the contrary, God Himself has chosen their deception and allowed for the exaltation of the same, according to His own plans. That all may be decided concerning a relatively simply issue which clearly identifies one's motives concerning God, before He returns to end and settle all matters of this very temporary world.

God established both the seventh day Sabbath, and the mortality of mankind at creation and recorded both in the testimony of His word to the same. The final deception will include a repudiation of both of the same. 

GE answers:
You oppose your opponent who probably knows you better than you know yourself, and your doctrines, most definitely. But you oppose your opponent whom you don't know at all, and his doctrine, even less.
So I'll let you off the hook this time for sheer sympathy, and love for my worst friends and foes.

You may of course believe whatever you choose. There is a big difference between trying to establish the truth of a matter, and simply trying to create confusion concerning it. I leave you to your nonsense. Christ was not raised on the Sabbath, He was at rest in the sleep of death and likely rose at the dawn of light rather than the darkness of night. Even if He did rise at night, it was the evening of the first day, not the Sabbath.

Just because Mrs E.G. White said so. I pity you people. May God open your eyes

Yea cause everyone knows, that everyone who believes Christ rose on Sunday, does so because EGW said so, right. Again, I leave you to your quackery. Why do you think it is so very important which day Christ rose on? Do you believe the day of the week He rose upon supports the idea that it should be a holy day to replace God's Sabbath? Why would you think such? There is no scripture to back this notion up. Do you wish it to be so, because you are secretly a Jesuit really trying to support and bolster Sunday sacredness?

Yea cause everyone knows, that everyone who believes Christ rose on Sunday, does so because EGW said so, right. Again, I leave you to your quackery. Why do you think it is so very important which day Christ rose on?

It is so important that Christ rose on Sunday for you, Amo and all SDA, that it is 'quackery' just the idea the Scriptures don't say He rose on Sunday but that it says "on the Sabbath". You actually say it is of no importance what the Scriptures say, Because Mrs. White says it was on Sunday. For you, there's no other reason than that Mrs. White says on Sunday. Therefore for you, Scriptures are the 'quackery'.

Do you believe the day of the week He rose upon supports the idea that it should be a holy day to replace God's Sabbath?

I believe that Jesus rose upon "the Sabbath" is the only truth which supports the commandment that it should be the holy "day the Sabbath of the LORD GOD"... Not that it should 'replace God's Sabbath'.

Do you believe the day of the week He rose upon supports the idea that it should be a holy day to replace God's Sabbath? Why would you think such? There is no scripture to back this notion up. Do you wish it to be so, because you are secretly a Jesuit really trying to support and bolster Sunday sacredness? 

I believe the day of the week Jesus rose upon was the holy day of God's Sabbath the Seventh Day of the week.
Why would I think such?
Why would or should I not think or believe such in the light of all the Scriptures stating and proving 'such'---that Christ rose from the grave "on the Sabbath when there occurred a great earthquake mid-afternoon of / on the Sabbath before the First Day of the week"? While this Scripture --Matthew 28:1-4--, 'back this notion up'?

WHY don't YOU, wish it to be so? Because you are secretly a Jesuit really trying to support and bolster Sunday sacredness?

Mt 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

The Sabbath begins Friday at evening, and ends Saturday evening, long before dawn on the first day of the week which day also begins at dusk Saturday evening. The above verse simply means what another scripture more clearly and plainly states, that Mary went to the sepulcher after the Sabbath as dawn of the first day of the week was imminent.

Mk 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. 2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun................

9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

Why do you reject the above testimony? Is it not because it does not support what you have chosen to believe?

Lk 23:54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on. 55 And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid. 56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. 2 And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre. 3 And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.

Why do you reject the above testimony of scripture as well? Is it not for the same reason? What more can scripture say? The Sabbath was over, it was the first day of the week near or at dawn. If this is wrong, please expound and state your case as to how and why with more than just the vagueness of the Mt 28 statement which is given more clarity by the scriptures I have quoted.

Amo:

Mt 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

The Sabbath begins Friday at evening, and ends Saturday evening, long before dawn on the first day of the week which day also begins at dusk Saturday evening. The above verse simply means what another scripture more clearly and plainly states, that Mary went to the sepulcher after the Sabbath as dawn of the first day of the week was imminent.

GE answers:

"In the end of the sabbath" = "in the ending of the Sabbath" = "late on the Sabbath"---in ALL English Bibles from Tyndale's to the beginning of the 20th century.

It was "Sabbath's-time" Genitive, of time and or quality and or possession.

If it were 'after' the Sabbath, 'sabbath'-[sabbatohn] would have had to be Accusative, 'sabbaton'; but it is not.

If it were after the Sabbath 'on' the First Day, 'first day'-[Mian sabbatohn] Accusative, would have had to be Genitive [mias] or Dative, 'Miai'. But it is not.

And the Adverb 'opse'- "late" would have had to be 'prohï'- 'early'; and the Preposition 'eis'- "towards" / "unto" / "against" would have had to be omitted or be something else like 'en'- "in".

And many more things to the same effect, that it was NOT 'before dawn on the first day of the week ... after the Sabbath', but just what the KJV says, 'In the end of the Sabbath towards the First Day'.

Also, NO Scripture 'clearly and plainly' or just vaguely, states that 'Mary went' to the sepulcher 'after the Sabbath as dawn of the first day of the week was imminent.' NO Scripture.

Amo:

Mk 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. 2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun................

9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

Why do you reject the above testimony? Is it not because it does not support what you have chosen to believe?

GE answers:
I do not reject the testimony of Mark in any one place or more.
But you treat Mark 16:1 as equals it Mark 16:2 as equals it Mark 16:9 as equals it Matthew 28:1-4.

I fully and unconditionally accept the testimomy of the above and all Scripture literally and historically true and correct, that, "Having been resurrected..." or, "When Jesus was risen..." or, "As the Risen One..." or, "Resurrected, He, Jesus, early on the First Day of the week APPEARED, first, to Mary Magdalene..."

You are no better of than those who claim He rose on Sunday. The scriptures do not specifically state which day HE rose upon. Even the Mt 28 account simply says an angel rolled away the stone, not that Christ rose at that time. He apparently didn't roll away the stone to reveal Christ's resurrection, but the fact that He wasn't there because because He had already been resurrected. The Sabbath though, does not begin or end at dawn. So either the statement itself is  confusing, has been confused, or is being confused by those who do not wish Christ rose on Sunday. In any case, the testimony of other scripture makes it clear that Mary went to the sepulcher after the Sabbath. 

Matthew 28Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

28 After Shabbat, as the next day was dawning, Miryam of Magdala and the other Miryam went to see the grave. 2 Suddenly there was a violent earthquake, for an angel of Adonai came down from heaven, rolled away the stone and sat on it

Do you suppose the Jewish bible got it wrong?

Matthew 28Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

28 After Shabbat, as the next day was dawning, Miryam of Magdala and the other Miryam went to see the grave. 2 Suddenly there was a violent earthquake, for an angel of Adonai came down from heaven, rolled away the stone and sat on it

Do you suppose the Jewish bible got it wrong?

This darn thing is as 'Complete Jewish Bible' as had I written it. A lot of 20th century Sunday worshipping pro-Israel lobbyists made it up to fool foppols like you with, dear Amo. 

Gerhard Ebersoehn replied 11-15-17, 02:54 AM
Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post
The SIMPLER SOLUTION is to synchronize the events of the Crucifixion with the Spring Feasts, which has Jesus arrested Wednesday night (Tuesday night by our reckoning), Crucified Wednesday, in the tomb until Sunday morning. I prefer to think outside the silly Catholic "Holy Week" Box. SO the only "ancient problem" there is, was created at the council of Nicaea when the Catholics set out to "De-Judify" their rituals.
Gerhard Ebersoehn replied 11-15-17, 02:54 AM
The ONLY solution is to strictly follow the Text in all four Gospels together, which 100% correlates with the events of the Crucifixion, Burial and Resurrection through Jesus' Last Passover, which solution has Jesus arrested Wednesday night our reckoning in the night beginning the Fifth Day of the week in Bible reckoning. Thus was Jesus Crucified the following daylight of the Fifth Day (Thursday day) and Died "the ninth hour" (3 PM); was taken from the cross in the night of the Sixth Day (Thursday night) and was closed in, in the tomb, "mid-afternoon the Sabbath nearing That Day the Preparation" (Friday mid-afternoon 3 PM); and remained closed in until "Late ON THE SABBATH ... there was a great earthquake MID-AFTERNOON" (3 PM).
NEXT day, Sunday, Jesus "As the Risen One, early on the First Day of the week (Sunday morning), APPEARED to Mary Magdalene first...". All of which perfectly fits in and correlates with the Gospels' Last Week of Jesus' Last Suffering of the Passover of Yahweh and its "three days thick darkness" on the 14th, 15th and 16th days of the First Month, when the New Era of Redemption and Salvation was inaugurated by the Resurrection of Our Passover and Lamb of God, Jesus Christ.
SO the only "ancient problem" there has ever been, is that the Catholics wanted to shift Jesus' Resurrection off the Sabbath and forward onto Sunday. Which required that the Crucifixion had to be moved forward off the Fifth Day onto 'Good Friday'; which again required that the Burial had to be moved forward, off the Sixth Day of the week's "WHOLENESS" of "the Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath" [having been "That Selfsame BONE DAY" of the fifteenth day of the First Month and "Great Day of sabbath" of the passover], onto a few hasty moments before the Sabbath on the SAME day as the supposed Crucifixion on Friday.

: Gerhard Ebersöhn  Wed Nov 15, 2017 - 01:26:15
Gerhard Ebersoehn replied 11-15-17, 02:54 AM
Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post
The SIMPLER SOLUTION is to synchronize the events of the Crucifixion with the Spring Feasts, which has Jesus arrested Wednesday night (Tuesday night by our reckoning), Crucified Wednesday, in the tomb until Sunday morning. I prefer to think outside the silly Catholic "Holy Week" Box. SO the only "ancient problem" there is, was created at the council of Nicaea when the Catholics set out to "De-Judify" their rituals.
Gerhard Ebersoehn replied 11-15-17, 02:54 AM
The ONLY solution is to strictly follow the Text in all four Gospels together, which 100% correlates with the events of the Crucifixion, Burial and Resurrection through Jesus' Last Passover, which solution has Jesus arrested Wednesday night our reckoning in the night beginning the Fifth Day of the week in Bible reckoning. Thus was Jesus Crucified the following daylight of the Fifth Day (Thursday day) and Died "the ninth hour" (3 PM); was taken from the cross in the night of the Sixth Day (Thursday night) and was closed in, in the tomb, "mid-afternoon the Sabbath nearing That Day the Preparation" (Friday mid-afternoon 3 PM); and remained closed in until "Late ON THE SABBATH ... there was a great earthquake MID-AFTERNOON" (3 PM).
NEXT day, Sunday, Jesus "As the Risen One, early on the First Day of the week (Sunday morning), APPEARED to Mary Magdalene first...". All of which perfectly fits in and correlates with the Gospels' Last Week of Jesus' Last Suffering of the Passover of Yahweh and its "three days thick darkness" on the 14th, 15th and 16th days of the First Month, when the New Era of Redemption and Salvation was inaugurated by the Resurrection of Our Passover and Lamb of God, Jesus Christ.
SO the only "ancient problem" there has ever been, is that the Catholics wanted to shift Jesus' Resurrection off the Sabbath and forward onto Sunday. Which required that the Crucifixion had to be moved forward off the Fifth Day onto 'Good Friday'; which again required that the Burial had to be moved forward, off the Sixth Day of the week's "WHOLENESS" of "the Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath" [having been "That Selfsame BONE DAY" of the fifteenth day of the First Month and "Great Day of sabbath" of the passover], onto a few hasty moments before the Sabbath on the SAME day as the supposed Crucifixion on Friday.

This certainly doesn't seem simpler than just believing the testimony of scripture. Why do you "synchronize the events of the Crucifixion with the Spring Feasts". Does scripture tell us to do that? Are you claiming that the scriptures have been changed to make it look like Christ rose on Sunday? Is this why you believe simple conclusive statements of scripture should be ignored?

Mt 27:57 When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple: 58 He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered. 59 And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, 60 And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed.61 And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over against the sepulchre. 62 Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,

Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome; 41 (Who also, when he was in Galilee, followed him, and ministered unto him;) and many other women which came up with him unto Jerusalem. 42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath, 43 Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus.

Lk 23:50 And, behold, there was a man named Joseph, a counsellor; and he was a good man, and a just: 51 (The same had not consented to the counsel and deed of them;) he was of Arimathaea, a city of the Jews: who also himself waited for the kingdom of God. 52 This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. 53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid. 54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on. 55 And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid. 56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

Jn 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. 31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

Why should all of the above simple statements of scripture, and that already shared concerning the first day of the week, be ignored in order to "synchronize the events of the Crucifixion with the Spring Feasts" as you suggest? What good reason is there to do such?

Why do you "synchronize the events of the Crucifixion with the Spring Feasts".

GE answers:

Valid objection, on condition that you read correctly and see it is not my statement, but the statement which I replied to.
Thanks.

Are you claiming that the scriptures have been changed to make it look like Christ rose on Sunday? Is this why you believe simple conclusive statements of scripture should be ignored?

First, Am I claiming that the scriptures have been changed to make it look like Christ rose on Sunday?

GE answers:

Yes, and not only claiming, I have been PROVING it with Scripture, irrefutably, for halve a century long already.

Next, After how long and you still don't see it's YOU who 'ignore...simple conclusive statements of scripture', NOT I! You have not given any Scripture that says or indicates in any manner that Jesus rose on Sunday, but I APPLY AND ABIDE BY ALL SCRIPTURE which says or and indicates in EVERY way and manner that Jesus rose on the Sabbath and had to rise on the Sabbath.

...simple conclusive statements of scripture should be ignored?

Mt 27:57 When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple: 58 He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered. 59 And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, 60 And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed.61 And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over against the sepulchre. 62 Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,

Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome; 41 (Who also, when he was in Galilee, followed him, and ministered unto him;) and many other women which came up with him unto Jerusalem. 42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath, 43 Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus.

Lk 23:50 And, behold, there was a man named Joseph, a counsellor; and he was a good man, and a just: 51 (The same had not consented to the counsel and deed of them;) he was of Arimathaea, a city of the Jews: who also himself waited for the kingdom of God. 52 This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. 53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid. 54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on. 55 And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid. 56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

Jn 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. 31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

Why should all of the above simple statements of scripture, and that already shared concerning the first day of the week, be ignored in order to "synchronize the events of the Crucifixion with the Spring Feasts" as you suggest? What good reason is there to do such?

Mt 27:57 and Mk 15:40 do not go together. You put them together falsely.

Mt 27:57 and Lk 23:50 Mk 15:42 go together. You separated them falsely, falsely shoving Mk 15:40 in between Mt 27:57 and Lk 23:50. What a shame!

Mark 15:40 goes together with Matthew 27:55,56. You falsely place them together with Luke 23:54,55 and what should be Mark 15:47 and Matthew 27:61!

Your 'exegesis' of Scripture is witch-mongering of wrong Scriptures.

: Gerhard Ebersöhn  Tue Nov 21, 2017 - 10:46:46
GE answers:

Valid objection, on condition that you read correctly and see it is not my statement, but the statement which I replied to.
Thanks.

It wasn't and objection, just a question.

: Gerhard Ebersöhn  Tue Nov 21, 2017 - 10:59:08
First, Am I claiming that the scriptures have been changed to make it look like Christ rose on Sunday?

GE answers:

Yes, and not only claiming, I have been PROVING it with Scripture, irrefutably, for halve a century long already.

Next, After how long and you still don't see it's YOU who 'ignore...simple conclusive statements of scripture', NOT I! You have not given any Scripture that says or indicates in any manner that Jesus rose on Sunday, but I APPLY AND ABIDE BY ALL SCRIPTURE which says or and indicates in EVERY way and manner that Jesus rose on the Sabbath and had to rise on the Sabbath.

What scriptures do you claim have been changed?

Mt 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. 2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. 3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow: 4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men. 5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified. 6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.

The Sabbath ends sundown Saturday. Are you saying the Lord rose before sundown Saturday night, before Sunday began in the evening?

Mk 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. 2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.

So again, are you saying that Christ rose before sundown Saturday evening, and the woman just didn't find out about it until early Sunday morning?

Lk 23:54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on. 55 And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid. 56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. 2 And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.

Same thing, same question. Your claim is that Christ rose Saturday evening before sundown, but nobody was told about it until Sunday morning, correct?

: Gerhard Ebersöhn  Tue Nov 21, 2017 - 12:10:58
Mt 27:57 and Mk 15:40 do not go together. You put them together falsely.

Mt 27:57 and Lk 23:50 Mk 15:42 go together. You separated them falsely, falsely shoving Mk 15:40 in between Mt 27:57 and Lk 23:50. What a shame!

Mark 15:40 goes together with Matthew 27:55,56. You falsely place them together with Luke 23:54,55 and what should be Mark 15:47 and Matthew 27:61!

Your 'exegesis' of Scripture is witch-mongering of wrong Scriptures.

They are simply scriptures which address the topic at hand.

AMO:

It wasn't and objection, just a question.

GE answers:
Then valid 'question', on condition that you read correctly and see it is not my statement, but the statement which I replied to.
Thanks.

Amo:

They are simply scriptures which address the topic at hand.

GE answers:
Not so 'simple'! The sequence you purposely placed those Scriptures in, YOU, MEANT to prove YOUR 'topic'-- a chronology which you intentionally MEANT, to prove YOUR Sunday resurrection chronology 'topic'.

Again like again and again and again it is not YOU who are scaly and wily. SDA NEVER are sly, but their opponents are always, awry.

Same thing, same question. Your claim is that Christ rose Saturday evening before sundown, but nobody was told about it until Sunday morning, correct? 

Open your eyes! Or can't you read open eyed or other eyed? QUOTE ME: where I ever wrote: 'Christ rose Saturday evening before sundown'! And i'll immediately admit you're right and retract my every plight that Christ rose "on the Sabbath mid-afternoon" 3 hours before, sundown!

So again, are you saying that Christ rose before sundown Saturday evening, and the woman just didn't find out about it until early Sunday morning?

This I'm sure will surprise you, That no woman except the two Marys even knew that Jesus' body got buried, what, that He rose, "LATE ON THE SABBATH being [-ousehi] in the [tehi] centre-inclining [epi-] DAYLIGHT-SHINING" [-phos-k-] before/towards/unto [eis] the First Day of the week [Mian sabbatohn]"!

The Sabbath ends sundown Saturday. Are you saying the Lord rose before sundown Saturday night, before Sunday began in the evening?

The First Day of the week [Mia (Hehmera) sabbatohn] 'began' sundown before the evening after sundown (Saturday night) and the Sabbath ended or had ended.

Amo:

What scriptures do you claim have been changed?

All those Scriptures bearing upon the DAY, the TIME of day, the day of the WEEK, and the DATES of either the day Jesus was crucified and KILLED, was BURIED, and, ROSE up from the dead again.

: Gerhard Ebersöhn  Thu Nov 23, 2017 - 02:26:57
Amo:
GE answers:
Not so 'simple'! The sequence you purposely placed those Scriptures in, YOU, MEANT to prove YOUR 'topic'-- a chronology which you intentionally MEANT, to prove YOUR Sunday resurrection chronology 'topic'.

Again like again and again and again it is not YOU who are scaly and wily. SDA NEVER are sly, but their opponents are always, awry.

I created no sequence. I did a word search, and picked out scriptures concerning the issue at hand to examine, that is all. The rest is in your head.

: Gerhard Ebersöhn  Thu Nov 23, 2017 - 02:43:48
Open your eyes! Or can't you read open eyed or other eyed? QUOTE ME: where I ever wrote: 'Christ rose Saturday evening before sundown'! And i'll immediately admit you're right and retract my every plight that Christ rose "on the Sabbath mid-afternoon" 3 hours before, sundown!

Bad wording. It couldn't have been Saturday evening which is actually Sunday. Shortly before sundown Sabbath. As already discussed though, the scriptures do not specifically say anywhere that Christ rose on the Sabbath or Sunday. So how is your argument any better than those who say He rose on Sunday?

: Gerhard Ebersöhn  Thu Nov 23, 2017 - 03:00:15
This I'm sure will surprise you, That no woman except the two Marys even knew that Jesus' body got buried, what, that He rose, "LATE ON THE SABBATH being [-ousehi] in the [tehi] centre-inclining [epi-] DAYLIGHT-SHINING" [-phos-k-] before/towards/unto [eis] the First Day of the week [Mian sabbatohn]"!

How do you know how many or not knew that Jesus got buried? You don't. That is presumption. How many were involved in the process of getting His body for burial, and placing it in the tomb. They set a guard around it in order to prevent anyone from faking a resurrection. To the contrary it is apparent that a lot of people were aware of Jesus burial, it certainly was not a secret.

: Gerhard Ebersöhn  Thu Nov 23, 2017 - 03:09:32
The First Day of the week [Mia (Hehmera) sabbatohn] 'began' sundown before the evening after sundown (Saturday night) and the Sabbath ended or had ended.

Mt 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. 2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. 3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow: 4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men. 5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified. 6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.

Strong's Greek Lexicon Search Results

Result of search for "2020":
2020. epiphosko ep-ee-foce'-ko a form of 2017; to begin to grow light:--begin to dawn, X draw on.

The implication of Mt 28:1 is that the woman went to the sepulchre early Sunday morning as it was beginning to dawn. The Sabbath was long over and Christ was already risen when they arrived. We don't know exactly how long it took them to get there, or exactly what time they arrived. Only that they left to go there shortly before dawn Sunday morning. Nor do we know exactly when Christ rose, only what is implied. Again therefore, I see no advantage to any exactness concerning Sabbath or Sunday. Though it seems certain that the woman went to the tomb very early Sunday morning, as another scripture states more conclusively as well.

Mk 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. 2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.

If Jesus rose on the Sabbath, apparently no one knew about it.

: Gerhard Ebersöhn  Thu Nov 23, 2017 - 03:17:44
Amo:
All those Scriptures bearing upon the DAY, the TIME of day, the day of the WEEK, and the DATES of either the day Jesus was crucified and KILLED, was BURIED, and, ROSE up from the dead again.

Then there is no hope of discovering the truth is there? Do you have any proof of such? Why do you think God allowed for such? If He did, He must not have considered the subject important enough to merit preserving the truth regarding the same.

I created no sequence. I did a word search, and picked out scriptures concerning the issue at hand to examine, that is all. The rest is in your head.

You did create a sequence-- by doing your, chosen, 'word search, and pick(ing) out scriptures concerning the issue at hand to examine' according to 'the rest' that's 'in your head' -- not in my head or in the Scriptures!

Bad wording. It couldn't have been Saturday evening which is actually Sunday. Shortly before sundown Sabbath. As already discussed though, the scriptures do not specifically say anywhere that Christ rose on the Sabbath or Sunday. So how is your argument any better than those who say He rose on Sunday?

GE:
Re: Amo:

Bad wording. It (that Christ rose) couldn't have been Saturday evening which is actually Sunday.

GE:
And what have I been saying all the time!?

Re: Amo:

Bad wording. It (that Christ rose) couldn't have been Saturday evening which is actually Sunday. Shortly before sundown Sabbath. As already discussed though, the scriptures do not specifically say anywhere that Christ rose on the Sabbath or Sunday.

GE:
So what's your point? You say 'the scriptures do not specifically say anywhere that Christ rose on the Sabbath or Sunday', but say No to 'Saturday evening which is actually Sunday' because it is 'bad wording'. When then do you say? Straight away you 'specifically' claim, 'Shortly before sundown Sabbath.' You must have been in a monologue all the while to nevertheless claim 'the scriptures do not specifically say anywhere that Christ rose on the Sabbath or Sunday.'

And you have had to be deaf and or blind and or illiterate and or non compos mentis that it all the while has not penetrated your head the fact that this ongoing 'discussion' has been confirming the Scriptures everywhere, specifically, say that Christ had to, and indeed did, rise: "on the Sabbath", had the "great earthquake" and "the angel of the Lord descending from heaven casting the stone from the grave" ANY MEANING whatsoever.

: Gerhard Ebersöhn  Thu Nov 23, 2017 - 08:05:54
You did create a sequence-- by doing your, chosen, 'word search, and pick(ing) out scriptures concerning the issue at hand to examine' according to 'the rest' that's 'in your head' -- not in my head or in the Scriptures!

Yes, I do always try to look at all the scriptures say concerning any topic, in order to get all the light possible. If this is creating a sequence to you, then I created a sequence. Though my intention is not to create a sequence, but rather take all the scriptures into account when forming a decision regarding the truth of a matter.

How do you know how many or not knew that Jesus got buried? You don't. That is presumption. How many were involved in the process of getting His body for burial, and placing it in the tomb. They set a guard around it in order to prevent anyone from faking a resurrection. To the contrary it is apparent that a lot of people were aware of Jesus burial, it certainly was not a secret.

GE answers:

Re: Amo
'How do you know how many or not knew that Jesus got buried? You don't. That is presumption.'

GE:
What is 'presumption', is "TO THINK ABOVE WHAT IS WRITTEN." Paul 1Corinthians 4:6. And I do not 'presume'; it is written 'how many or not knew that Jesus got buried': 1) Joseph, Mark 15:42 Matthew 27:57 Luke 23:50 John 19:38; 2) Nicodemus, John 19:39; 3) the two Marys, Mark 15:47 Matthew 27:61 Luke 23:55 "the two" 24:1.

Re: Amo:
Amo:
'How many were involved in the process of getting His body [ready] for burial'...?

GE:
The two men, Joseph and Nicodemus.

Re: Amo:
'How many were involved in the process of ... placing it in the tomb...?'

GE:
The two men, Joseph and Nicodemus.

Amo did not ask what the two Marys did, but I'll tell anyway:
"They followed after" in the procession to the grave.
Then "they beheld the sepulchre and how his body was laid" by the two men. Luke 23:55b,c.
Matthew 27:60 also tells that "they sat over against the sepulchre", observing what Joseph and, of course, Nicodemus who assisted him, did.

Amo:

How many were involved in the process of getting His body for burial, and placing it in the tomb. They set a guard around it in order to prevent anyone from faking a resurrection. To the contrary it is apparent that a lot of people were aware of Jesus burial, it certainly was not a secret.

GE:
Who were your 'they's'? NO ONE 'involved in the process of getting His body for burial, and placing it in the tomb', 'set a guard around it', or, planned 'to prevent anyone from faking a resurrection'... goodness gracious how atrocious!

Re: Amo:

...it is apparent that a lot of people were aware of Jesus burial, it certainly was not a secret.

GE:
Now this for you is what 'presumption' is --- is 'simply'... NO SCRIPTURE!

However, tell me, Why then did the 'lot of people (who) were aware of Jesus burial' wait until "the (next) morning that is after the Preparation" to, of all days on the Sabbath, "come and make the sepulchre sure, sealing the stone and setting a watch"? WHY HAVEN'T THEY DONE IT BEFORE THE SABBATH BEGAN, FRIDAY BEFORE SUNSET, IF it 'certainly was no secret' and it was 'apparent that a lot of people were aware of Jesus burial'?!

: Gerhard Ebersöhn  Thu Nov 23, 2017 - 08:39:03
GE:
Re: Amo:
GE:
And what have I been saying all the time!?

Re: Amo:
GE:
So what's your point? You say 'the scriptures do not specifically say anywhere that Christ rose on the Sabbath or Sunday', but say No to 'Saturday evening which is actually Sunday' because it is 'bad wording'. When then do you say? Straight away you 'specifically' claim, 'Shortly before sundown Sabbath.' You must have been in a monologue all the while to nevertheless claim 'the scriptures do not specifically say anywhere that Christ rose on the Sabbath or Sunday.'

And you have had to be deaf and or blind and or illiterate and or non compos mentis that it all the while has not penetrated your head the fact that this ongoing 'discussion' has been confirming the Scriptures everywhere, specifically, say that Christ had to, and indeed did, rise: "on the Sabbath", had the "great earthquake" and "the angel of the Lord descending from heaven casting the stone from the grave" ANY MEANING whatsoever.

Yes I know, everyone who does not see it your way is deaf, blind, illiterate, non compos mentis, whatever that is. Nothing you have presented suggests to me that Christ had to rise on the Sabbath. While I might be deaf, blind, illiterate or non compos mentis, whatever that is, perhaps you are not to so good at explaining yourself either.

The earthquake took place "In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week". You take this to mean near the end of the Sabbath, as evening approached and it was getting dark. I and most take it to mean that after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week was dawning, which would make it Sunday morning. As the other scripture I shared also more conclusively stated saying "And when the sabbath was past,". Without the latter your argument would hold more weight with me, since I try examine all the testimony of scripture before making a decision. The latter seems to me, to confirm what most believe. This one thing though, you have in common with most Sunday sacredness proponents as I see it, you make to much hoopla concerning the specific day He rose upon. Both of your positions make more importance of it, than the scriptures themselves ever do. What happened on the day is far more important than exactly which day it happened upon.

The scriptures indicate nowhere, that the day it occurred had be memorialized by some type of weekly observance thereafter, or had to be upon the day already selected by God as such. This people have decided for themselves, as far as I can tell. Applying Christ life, death, and resurrection to ones own life by faith, is far more important than exactly which day any of these events took place. The fourth commandment of God does not require the Christ rose on the Sabbath to maintain its significance for the new covenant. Nor does Christ rising on the first day of the week take anything away from it, or establish a new day of worship in any way shape or form. I believe that all who would believe either, are in error, and have no scriptural foundation for either claim.

: Gerhard Ebersöhn  Thu Nov 23, 2017 - 09:22:37
GE answers:

Re: Amo
'How do you know how many or not knew that Jesus got buried? You don't. That is presumption.'

GE:
What is 'presumption', is "TO THINK ABOVE WHAT IS WRITTEN." Paul 1Corinthians 4:6. And I do not 'presume'; it is written 'how many or not knew that Jesus got buried': 1) Joseph, Mark 15:42 Matthew 27:57 Luke 23:50 John 19:38; 2) Nicodemus, John 19:39; 3) the two Marys, Mark 15:47 Matthew 27:61 Luke 23:55 "the two" 24:1.

Re: Amo:
Amo:
'How many were involved in the process of getting His body [ready] for burial'...?

GE:
The two men, Joseph and Nicodemus.

Re: Amo:
'How many were involved in the process of ... placing it in the tomb...?'

GE:
The two men, Joseph and Nicodemus.

Amo did not ask what the two Marys did, but I'll tell anyway:
"They followed after" in the procession to the grave.
Then "they beheld the sepulchre and how his body was laid" by the two men. Luke 23:55b,c.
Matthew 27:60 also tells that "they sat over against the sepulchre", observing what Joseph and, of course, Nicodemus who assisted him, did.

Joseph and those who were with him and helped him request, receive, and place Christ in the tomb knew. Those he made the request to knew. The Jews who requested that a guard be placed by the tomb knew. The guards and all associated with them during the time knew. No doubt many more also knew by word of mouth. Your do not know how many knew.

Quote
Strong's Greek Lexicon Search Results
Result of search for "2020":
2020. epiphosko ep-ee-foce'-ko a form of 2017; to begin to grow light:--begin to dawn, X draw on.

Yes, that is 'Strongs' in the 21st century! Go check it out in the first edition perhaps editions. Promise: You are not going to find this BS in it/them! Check the same FRAUD in 'Greens'!

More importantly as Naas Botha always says... WHERE ARE THE INCIDENCES? NONE! NONE!! NONE!!!

Now instead of 'Strongs' sheer BS, take A.T Robertson's sheer honesty and integrity,

Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament

Quote begins:
Now late on the sabbath as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week (opse de sabbatwn, th epipwskoush eiί mian sabbatwn). This careful chronological statement according to Jewish days clearly means that before the sabbath was over, that is before six P.M., this visit by the women was made "to see the sepulchre" (qeorhsai ton tapon). They had seen the place of burial on Friday afternoon (Mark 15:47; Matthew 27:61; Luke 23:55). They had rested on the sabbath after preparing spices and ointments for the body of Jesus (Luke 23:56), a sabbath of unutterable sorrow and woe. They will buy other spices after sundown when the new day has dawned and the sabbath is over (Mark 16:1). Both Matthew here and Luke (Luke 23:54) use dawn (epipwskw) for the dawning of the twenty-four hour-day at sunset, not of the dawning of the twelve-hour day at sunrise. The Aramaic used the verb for dawn in both senses. The so-called Gospel of Peter has epipwskw in the same sense as Matthew and Luke as does a late papyrus. Apparently the Jewish sense of "dawn" is here expressed by this Greek verb. Allen thinks that Matthew misunderstands Mark at this point, but clearly Mark is speaking of sunrise and Matthew of sunset. Why allow only one visit for the anxious women?
Quote ends

WHERE HAVE ALL THE JESUITS GONE? TO WHERE THEY'RE FROM!

: Gerhard Ebersöhn  Thu Nov 23, 2017 - 10:02:26
Yes, that is 'Strongs' in the 21st century! Go check it out in the first edition perhaps editions. Promise: You are not going to find this BS in it/them! Check the same FRAUD in 'Greens'!

More importantly as Naas Botha always says... WHERE ARE THE INCIDENCES? NONE! NONE!! NONE!!!

I will look further into it. I have found places in the Strongs concordance where they have added info before regarding hell. It is true that they need to be double checked.

: Gerhard Ebersöhn  Thu Nov 23, 2017 - 10:11:25
Now instead of 'Strongs' sheer BS, take A.T Robertson's sheer honesty and integrity,

Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament

Quote begins:
Now late on the sabbath as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week (opse de sabbatwn, th epipwskoush eiί mian sabbatwn). This careful chronological statement according to Jewish days clearly means that before the sabbath was over, that is before six P.M., this visit by the women was made "to see the sepulchre" (qeorhsai ton tapon). They had seen the place of burial on Friday afternoon (Mark 15:47; Matthew 27:61; Luke 23:55). They had rested on the sabbath after preparing spices and ointments for the body of Jesus (Luke 23:56), a sabbath of unutterable sorrow and woe. They will buy other spices after sundown when the new day has dawned and the sabbath is over (Mark 16:1). Both Matthew here and Luke (Luke 23:54) use dawn (epipwskw) for the dawning of the twenty-four hour-day at sunset, not of the dawning of the twelve-hour day at sunrise. The Aramaic used the verb for dawn in both senses. The so-called Gospel of Peter has epipwskw in the same sense as Matthew and Luke as does a late papyrus. Apparently the Jewish sense of "dawn" is here expressed by this Greek verb. Allen thinks that Matthew misunderstands Mark at this point, but clearly Mark is speaking of sunrise and Matthew of sunset. Why allow only one visit for the anxious women?
Quote ends

WHERE HAVE ALL THE JESUITS GONE? TO WHERE THEY'RE FROM!

Do you have a link to this Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament, that we may examine it as well? Two visits to the tomb is possible, but not revealed by scripture, and therefore certainly not any conclusive evidence one way or the other.

Amo:

The implication of Mt 28:1 is that the woman went to the sepulchre early Sunday morning as it was beginning to dawn. The Sabbath was long over and Christ was already risen when they arrived. We don't know exactly how long it took them to get there, or exactly what time they arrived. Only that they left to go there shortly before dawn Sunday morning. Nor do we know exactly when Christ rose, only what is implied. Again therefore, I see no advantage to any exactness concerning Sabbath or Sunday. Though it seems certain that the woman went to the tomb very early Sunday morning, as another scripture states more conclusively as well.

Mk 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. 2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.

GE answers:
The clear and simple words as well as logical implication of Mt 28:1 are, That the woman the two Marys mentioned only, "set out TO go have a look ['ehlthen theohrehsai'] at the tomb", "Late on the Sabbath  (as it began to 'dawn') before the First Day being in the mid-afternoon daylight shining down towards" sunset!   

The Sabbath was long over and Christ was / had been already risen / raised / resurrected when they arrived.

We know exactly when they "stepped out / departed / set out TO GO SEE the tomb".
We know exactly when "there occurred great earthquake" and thwarted their INTENTION.
We know exactly when "the angel cast the stone from the tomb" and Jesus rose from dead in it.
We know exactly when because "it is written", "WHEN... the angel ANSWERED / EXPLAINED REPORTED to the women" on SUNDAY MORNING after sunrise, "THERE SUDDENLY WAS A GREAT EARTHQUAKE"!

We know exactly that it is just surmising of the petulant who insist without a single Scripture EVER ANYWHERE '... they left to go to the tomb and got there 'shortly before dawn Sunday morning'.

We know exactly that, and when, Christ rose! because it is both written and implied as prophesied in "all the Scriptures".

Again therefore, if you don't see any advantage in Jesus' Resurrection from the dead "ON THE SABBATH" for it, it's your loss and none of my concern... although I must say I feel sorry for you for it, because all the Scripture is so clear and certain about it-- the GREAT DISCOVERY the woman had to make when they went to the tomb very early on Sunday morning "and THE ANGEL" in Matthew 28:5 "EXPLAINED TO THEM" as all the Scripture as well conclusively confirms.

Mk 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. 2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.

If Jesus rose on the Sabbath, apparently no one knew about it. 

That's right, nobody knew about it; also not those who buried Him. Nobody EXPECTED He would rise again; no one BELIEVED He would; no one further (seemed) to bother... until "Mary Magdalene on the First Day of the week while being early-of-dark still (i.e., dusk), comes to the tomb, sees the stone cast aside from the tomb and--- RUNS BACK...!"

But "Mk 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. 2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun", had nothing to do with that!

Re: The Two Great Errors
« Reply #82 on: Today at 05:45:18 »
Quote from: Gerhard Ebersöhn on Today at 03:17:44
Amo:
All those Scriptures bearing upon the DAY, the TIME of day, the day of the WEEK, and the DATES of either the day Jesus was crucified and KILLED, was BURIED, and, ROSE up from the dead again.

Then there is no hope of discovering the truth is there? Do you have any proof of such? Why do you think God allowed for such? If He did, He must not have considered the subject important enough to merit preserving the truth regarding the same.

Note: It is not Amo who wrote: 'All those...' etcetera; it was GE answering Amo, who said, 'All those...' etcetera. And it was Amo who in return replied to GE, who wrote, 'Then there is no hope...' etcetera.

Now then...

Amo: 'Then there is no hope of discovering the truth is there?'

GE:
If not for God's Providence, true! No one might have 'discover(ed) the truth'. But now God saw to it that the Truth did get discovered! Look at yourself! What must be happening with you "Today that you hear His Voice" speaking to you "all things concerning the Christ, HOW that He HAD TO, Suffer these things ... and the third day RISE!"

Therefore, to quote Amo: 'Why do (I) think God allowed for such?' as that no one might have discovered the truth with regard to Jesus' Resurrection "on the Sabbath"? Well, God gave assurance his Word shall not return to Him empty and many more such promises of his Divine Omnipotence, Omniscience and PROVIDENCE! It's an eternal impossibility God's Truth will not be discovered!

Concluded: God NEVER would allow that his "Written" Truth would stay covered up and hidden, locked away in the robbers' den the church of antichrist. He never did or would, having sworn that no tittle or iota of his Written Word would pass away or be dissolved like human flesh and thought would in the battery acid of satanic lying. So important considered God the subject of Christ raised from the dead on the Sabbath Day, that He "by the Power of his Resurrection" from the grave and death upon it, preserved "the Seventh Day Sabbath Rest Day of the LORD GOD", as and for "the Lord's Day"!

How ironic the Sabbathtarians are those MOST OPPOSED TO THIS TRUTH!

The earthquake took place "In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week". You take this to mean near the end of the Sabbath, as evening approached and it was getting dark. I and most take it to mean that after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week was dawning, which would make it Sunday morning. 

I do NOT 'take this' --"In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week"--, 'to mean near the end of the Sabbath, as evening approached and it was getting dark.'
I take it for just what it says, "In the end(ing 3 hours before sunset) of (or "on") the Sabbath, Sabbath's, as it began to dawn in the mid-inclining / declining (towards the west, 3 p.m.) DAY-LIGHT-SUN-SHINING-DOWN-OVER-UPON approaching / toward / nearing the First Day of the week"! Not what you LIE I say! It was not 'getting dark' after sunset (like in John 20:1,2); it was becoming "towards / before vespers / late afternoon" 3 hours before sunset.

For you, yes, you must take it to mean 'after' the Sabbath, 'Sunday morning', because you know nothing about the Greek words or word-forms or history of meaning and only believe the antichrist's changing of God's Laws and Times and Mrs. E.G. White in complete agreement with him. Also because you know nothing and understand nothing about all the Scriptures that make abundantly clear that Christ would, and did, resurrect "ON the Seventh Day God FINISHED ALL HIS WORKS" IN CHRIST THROUGH RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD, AND SO, "RESTED from all his works He had made and done and finished and blessed and hallowed."

You are worse off than the Sundaydarians who illegitimately TAKE ADVANTAGE of the Power of Christ's Resurrection for their Sunday worship, which Truth and Power of Christ's Resurrection you, SDA, despise belittle and reject and scorn as GOD'S REASON FOR BEING of his Holy Sabbath Rest Day. GO ON! But know, God will confront YOU in the day of judgement about this. 

Do you have a link to this Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament, that we may examine it as well? Two visits to the tomb is possible, but not revealed by scripture, and therefore certainly not any conclusive evidence one way or the other.

I gave all my books to the university, so I can't help you from any book/s. But you can better than I google or something, I'm sure, because I am bc before computers. You can also check Robertson's Grammar. P.519 Partitive idea of Genitive (or Ablative) 'sabbatohn'. P. 522 ...Sabbath is the point of time...the substantive is not expressed in 'tehi epiphoskousehi'. Pp. 645/646 Refer http://www.biblestudents.co.za/books/Book%202.%20Resurrection.pdf p. 56f par. 5.3.2.2.6. P.672 Hebrew influence.

Do you have a link to this Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament, that we may examine it as well? Two visits to the tomb is possible, but not revealed by scripture, and therefore certainly not any conclusive evidence one way or the other.

GE answers:

http://www.biblestudents.co.za/docs/html/Visits%20to%20the%20tomb.htm

http://www.biblestudents.co.za/docs/html/Visit%20on%20Sabbath.htm

http://www.biblestudents.co.za/books/Seven%20Posts%20Between%20Tree%20and%20Stone.pdf

http://www.biblestudents.co.za/docs/html/Ten%20Visits%20at%20the%20Tomb.htm

: Gerhard Ebersöhn  Thu Nov 23, 2017 - 11:01:34
Amo:
GE answers:
The clear and simple words as well as logical implication of Mt 28:1 are, That the woman the two Marys mentioned only, "set out TO go have a look ['ehlthen theohrehsai'] at the tomb", "Late on the Sabbath  (as it began to 'dawn') before the First Day being in the mid-afternoon daylight shining down towards" sunset!   

The Sabbath was long over and Christ was / had been already risen / raised / resurrected when they arrived.

We know exactly when they "stepped out / departed / set out TO GO SEE the tomb".
We know exactly when "there occurred great earthquake" and thwarted their INTENTION.
We know exactly when "the angel cast the stone from the tomb" and Jesus rose from dead in it.
We know exactly when because "it is written", "WHEN... the angel ANSWERED / EXPLAINED REPORTED to the women" on SUNDAY MORNING after sunrise, "THERE SUDDENLY WAS A GREAT EARTHQUAKE"!

We know exactly that it is just surmising of the petulant who insist without a single Scripture EVER ANYWHERE '... they left to go to the tomb and got there 'shortly before dawn Sunday morning'.

We know exactly that, and when, Christ rose! because it is both written and implied as prophesied in "all the Scriptures".

Again therefore, if you don't see any advantage in Jesus' Resurrection from the dead "ON THE SABBATH" for it, it's your loss and none of my concern... although I must say I feel sorry for you for it, because all the Scripture is so clear and certain about it-- the GREAT DISCOVERY the woman had to make when they went to the tomb very early on Sunday morning "and THE ANGEL" in Matthew 28:5 "EXPLAINED TO THEM" as all the Scripture as well conclusively confirms.

Well, thanks so much for feeling sorry for me. We do not know exactly when Christ rose. It is not so crystal clear as you suggest. Nor do I believe it is so important as you believe. If it were, the scriptures would probably expound upon such quite a bit more than they do. I would be interested to know from your perspective though, just exactly why it is so very important. I know you are upset about so many believing wrong as you suggest, but what is the great lesson or deeper meaning all are missing by not seeing what you do? If you don't mind explaining with some more depth please.

Well, thanks so much for feeling sorry for me. We do not know exactly when Christ rose. It is not so crystal clear as you suggest. Nor do I believe it is so important as you believe. If it were, the scriptures would probably expound upon such quite a bit more than they do. I would be interested to know from your perspective though, just exactly why it is so very important. I know you are upset about so many believing wrong as you suggest, but what is the great lesson or deeper meaning all are missing by not seeing what you do? If you don't mind explaining with some more depth please.

If this matter were but a discussion between Amo and GE, I would long since have stopped partaking. But since this is the Heart of the Gospel which I have from my side attempted to show during this discussion, I will answer again. And again and again and will never stop exposing and refuting the cowardice and hypocrisy SDA maintain and shall persevere in untill the day that Christ will come again.

To begin with and be honest, I don't care a damn about you or the SDA. As far as I'm concerned, you can all go to hell, and in any case, are going to hell.

You know as well as I do that 'we' DO know exactly when Christ rose. But you worship your church and prophetess as well as the DAY she TAUGHT that Christ rose from the dead on--- Sunday! Your prophetess TAUGHT that Sunday must in heaven and on earth as THE great day of joy and light forever be remembered. DA. 

The Bible is crystal clear and not only 'suggests' it but prophesies and institutes as both Old and New Testament LAW, that Jesus Christ rose from the dead "on the Sabbath Day". Don't pretend ignorant; you only show off with your arrogance. 

How important you may 'believe' the fact is, is of no importance or weight or worth. It's just part of  your attempt to prove your SDA Sunday resurrection with. "Faith is SUBSTANCE" bud, not useless vacuous insulting your coup de gráce.

YOU, simply PRETEND 'blind' for the abundance and clarity of "ALL the Scriptures" that most definitely and definitively expound upon the very HEART OF THE GOSPEL of Jesus Christ of which the "POWER" IS THE "POWER OF HIS RESURRECTION".

You CLOSE your eyes, PLUG your ears, BLOCK your brain and HARDEN your heart in order NOT to 'be interested to know just exactly why it is so very important ... what the great lesson ... deeper meaning'!

Absolute, 'all are missing by not seeing' it! Especially those like the SDA who could at last have found the one and only GOSPEL reason for being of God's Holy Sabbath Day.

Therefore I have 'mind(ed) explaining with some more depth' times without number, SOLA SCRIPTURE or be damned!

Joseph and those who were with him and helped him request, receive, and place Christ in the tomb knew. Those he made the request to knew. The Jews who requested that a guard be placed by the tomb knew. The guards and all associated with them during the time knew. No doubt many more also knew by word of mouth. Your do not know how many knew.

GE answers:

Re: Amo: 'Joseph and those who were with him and helped him request,'

You QUOTE WHO helped him...Joseph...request,' NO ONE did; the Text says Joseph asked Pilate 'secretly' and evaded "the Jews". The Text says "Nicodemus came to him", later on and "they", further "wrapped" the body in more, "linen". That makes it TWO men if I can count.

Re: Amo: 'The Jews who requested that a guard be placed by the tomb knew.'

Yes, AFTER, in fact 15 hours AFTER, three "daylight" hours "mid-inclining, towards (sunset and) the Sabbath drew near" and one whole night --12 more hours-- until "the next Sabbath morning AFTER "the Preparation" had passed, they learned!  15 hours AFTER: because they 'knew' NOT until THEN and wasted no time because they 'knew', He said, "today is the third day" and He whom they had crucified and killed, and were sure was cast in Gehenna but never thought would be buried, would RISE again as "he SAID he would"!
Yes then, "the morning after the Preparation", 'The guards and all associated with' the JEWS 'during the time', 15 hours of 'time', learned and 'knew' that Jesus had gotten buried. No one of them 'knew' before, and none of 'how many' soever 'associated with' Joseph or Nicodemus.

Therefore, no doubt one Gospel writer at least would have recorded 'many more also knew by word of mouth'. But now all four Gospel state that only two men were associated with the "nighttime...preparation" for Burial and two more women were associated with "the daylight laying down in the sepulchre of the body".

: Gerhard Ebersöhn  Mon Nov 27, 2017 - 00:30:25
If this matter were but a discussion between Amo and GE, I would long since have stopped partaking. But since this is the Heart of the Gospel which I have from my side attempted to show during this discussion, I will answer again. And again and again and will never stop exposing and refuting the cowardice and hypocrisy SDA maintain and shall persevere in untill the day that Christ will come again.

To begin with and be honest, I don't care a damn about you or the SDA. As far as I'm concerned, you can all go to hell, and in any case, are going to hell.

You know as well as I do that 'we' DO know exactly when Christ rose. But you worship your church and prophetess as well as the DAY she TAUGHT that Christ rose from the dead on--- Sunday! Your prophetess TAUGHT that Sunday must in heaven and on earth as THE great day of joy and light forever be remembered. DA. 

The Bible is crystal clear and not only 'suggests' it but prophesies and institutes as both Old and New Testament LAW, that Jesus Christ rose from the dead "on the Sabbath Day". Don't pretend ignorant; you only show off with your arrogance. 

How important you may 'believe' the fact is, is of no importance or weight or worth. It's just part of  your attempt to prove your SDA Sunday resurrection with. "Faith is SUBSTANCE" bud, not useless vacuous insulting your coup de gráce.

YOU, simply PRETEND 'blind' for the abundance and clarity of "ALL the Scriptures" that most definitely and definitively expound upon the very HEART OF THE GOSPEL of Jesus Christ of which the "POWER" IS THE "POWER OF HIS RESURRECTION".

You CLOSE your eyes, PLUG your ears, BLOCK your brain and HARDEN your heart in order NOT to 'be interested to know just exactly why it is so very important ... what the great lesson ... deeper meaning'!

Absolute, 'all are missing by not seeing' it! Especially those like the SDA who could at last have found the one and only GOSPEL reason for being of God's Holy Sabbath Day.

Therefore I have 'mind(ed) explaining with some more depth' times without number, SOLA SCRIPTURE or be damned!

Ranting, raving, and threatening people with hell fire, explains nothing. The bible does not state exactly when or what hour Christ arose, it does exactly state when humanity first became aware that He had risen, which was early Sunday morning. Nor is the issue as important as you wish to make it, but in your own mind. Your warped perception concerning EGW's support for Sunday sacredness is straight up delusional. Her testimony that the day of Christ's resurrection was a wonderful day, was due to the fact that Christ rose on that day, not any kind of support for the invention of a spurious day of worship to replace the seventh day Sabbath. This is in your own mind alone, it does to exist on the plane of reality. The following are just a few of the very many testimonies she gave concerning the true nature of Sunday sacredness. All emphasis is mine.

TESTIMONY TREASURES, VOL. 2, PAGE 452
Church Schools*1900, Testimonies for the Church 6:193-205.

The Protestant churches have accepted the spurious sabbath, the child of the papacy, and have exalted it above God's holy, sanctified day. It is our work to make plain to our children that the first day of the week is not the true Sabbath, and that its observance, after light has come to us as to what is the true Sabbath, is a plain contradiction of the law of God. Do our children receive from the teachers in the public schools ideas that are in harmony with the word of God? Is sin presented as an offense against God? Is obedience to all the commandments of God taught as the beginning of all wisdom? We send our children to the Sabbath school that they may be instructed in regard to the truth, and then as they go to the day school, lessons containing falsehood are given them to learn. These things confuse the mind, and should not be; for if the young receive ideas that pervert the truth, how will the influence of this education be counteracted?


THE HOME MISSIONARY
November 1, 1893
Christ Our Helper in the Great Crisis

God will hold men accountable who have the plain teachings of his word, but disregard them and accept the sayings and customs of men. And yet how many are doing this! They reject the light in regard to the Sabbath, and trample upon God's holy day. Ministers and people, with the Bible open before them, show contempt for the words of God in his holy precepts, while they exalt a spurious Sabbath, which has no other foundation than the authority of the Roman Church. The claims of this spurious Sabbath are to be enforced upon the world. The Protestant churches, having received doctrines which the word of God condemns, will bring these to the front, and force them upon the consciences of men, just as the papal authorities urged their dogmas upon the advocates of truth in Luther's time. The same battle is again to be fought, and every soul will be called upon to decide upon which side of the controversy he will be found.

MANUSCRIPT RELEASES, VOL. 17 [NOS. 1236-1300], PAGE 7

"And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to Him; for the hour of His judgment is come: and worship Him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters" [Revelation 14:6, 7].
This message, if heeded, will call the attention of every nation and kindred and tongue and people to a close examination of the Word, and to the true light in regard to the power that has changed the Seventh-day Sabbath to a spurious sabbath. The only true God has been forsaken, His law has been discarded, His sacred Sabbath institution has been trampled in the dust by the man of sin. The fourth commandment, so plain and explicit, has been ignored. The Sabbath memorial, declaring who the living God is, the Creator of the heavens and the earth, has been torn down, and a spurious sabbath has been given to the world in its place. Thus a breach has been made in the law of God. A false sabbath could not be a true standard.
In the first angel's message men are called upon to worship God, our Creator, who made the world and all things that are therein. They have paid homage to an institution of the Papacy, making of no effect the law of Jehovah, but there is to be an increase of knowledge on this subject.


Ms 71, 1896

The righteous are to pray as never before. God has promised that He will avenge His own elect who cry day and night to Him, though He bear long with them. When truth appears to be overborne by falsehood, when an idol sabbath is erected as was the golden image in the plains of Dura, when the rulers take their place to compel the conscience, and by legislation exalt a spurious sabbath, Protestantism abjures the principles which gave her the name of Protestant, and supports an institution of the Papacy. Then it is time for God to work in indignation and vengeance. To those who give their power to suppress religious liberty He says, "Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire; for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her."


Ms 60, 1893

Directly across the road is the Catholic church. The Roman power has thought to change times and laws. It has claimed the power to change the law of God and to institute the first day of the week as what they call the Christian Sabbath. Here stands the little church to dispute the authority of the power of Rome to change the law of God. Those who are standing in defense of the Sabbath of the fourth commandment are refusing to bow in allegiance to a spurious idol sabbath that has for its authority the Roman Catholic sign or mark.


TESTIMONY TREASURES, VOL. 2, PAGE 318
The Impending Conflict*1889, Testimonies for the Church 5:711-718.

There are many, even of those engaged in this movement for Sunday enforcement, who are blinded to the results which will follow this action. They do not see that they are striking directly against religious liberty. There are many who have never understood the claims of the Bible Sabbath and the false foundation upon which the Sunday institution rests. Any movement in favor of religious legislation is really an act of concession to the papacy, which for so many ages has steadily warred against liberty of conscience. Sunday observance owes its existence as a so-called Christian institution to "the mystery of iniquity;" and its enforcement will be a virtual recognition of the principles which are the very cornerstone of Romanism. When our nation shall so abjure the principles of its government as to enact a Sunday law, Protestantism will in this act join hands with popery; it will be nothing else than giving life to the tyranny which has long been eagerly watching its opportunity to spring again into active despotism.


COUNSELS TO WRITERS AND EDITORS, PAGE 97

To Meet the Sunday-Law Movement—I do hope that the trumpet will give a certain sound in regard to this Sunday-law movement. I think that it would be best if in our papers the subject of the perpetuity of the law of God were made a specialty. Should there not be a paper or a pamphlet issued to take the place of the Sentinel? I have not been able to think that it was the wise thing to do to let that paper drop. It was a voice that was constantly speaking in defense of religious liberty. The truth should be presented in short articles, in clear, distinct lines, giving special points in regard to the Lord's Sabbath, and showing that those who frame laws to compel the observance of the first day of the week, are disloyal to the Lord of heaven, who placed His sanctity upon the seventh day. Are we doing all we can to exalt the law of Jehovah?
We should now be doing our very best to defeat this Sunday law. The best way to do this will be to lift up the law of God and make it stand forth in all its sacredness. This must be done if the truth triumphs.—Letter 58, 1906.


The Coming Crisis*1885, Testimonies for the Church 5:449-454.

"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." Revelation 12:17. In the near future we shall see these words fulfilled as the Protestant churches unite with the world and with the papal power against commandment keepers. The same spirit which actuated papists in ages past will lead Protestants to pursue a similar course toward those who will maintain their loyalty to God.
Church and state are now making preparations for the future conflict. Protestants are working in disguise to bring Sunday to the front, as did the Romanists. Throughout the land the papacy is piling up her lofty and massive structures, in the secret recesses of which her former persecutions are to be repeated. And the way is preparing for the manifestation, on a grand scale, of those lying wonders by which, if it were possible, Satan would deceive even the elect.
The decree which is to go forth against the people of God will be very similar to that issued by Ahasuerus against the Jews in the time of Esther. The Persian edict sprang from the malice of Haman toward Mordecai. Not that Mordecai had done him harm, but he had refused to show him reverence which belongs only to God. The king's decision against the Jews was secured under false pretenses through misrepresentation of that peculiar people. Satan instigated the scheme in order to rid the earth of those who preserved the knowledge of the true God. But his plots were defeated by a counterpower that reigns among the children of men. Angels that excel in strength were commissioned to protect the people of God, and the plots of their adversaries returned upon their own heads. The Protestant world today see in the little company keeping the Sabbath a Mordecai in the gate. His character and conduct, expressing reverence for the law of God, are a constant rebuke to those who have cast off the fear of the Lord and are trampling upon His Sabbath; the unwelcome intruder must by some means be put out of the way.
The same masterful mind that plotted against the faithful in ages past is still seeking to rid the earth of those who fear God and obey His law. Satan will excite indignation against the humble minority who conscientiously refuse to accept popular customs and traditions. Men of position and reputation will join with the lawless and the vile to take counsel against the people of God. Wealth, genius, education, will combine to cover them with contempt. Persecuting rulers, ministers, and church members will conspire against them. With voice and pen, by boasts, threats, and ridicule, they will seek to overthrow their faith. By false representations and angry appeals they will stir up the passions of the people. Not having a "Thus saith the Scriptures" to bring against the advocates of the Bible Sabbath, they will resort to oppressive enactments to supply the lack. To secure popularity and patronage, legislators will yield to the demand for a Sunday law. Those who fear God cannot accept an institution that violates a precept of the Decalogue. On this battlefield comes the last great conflict of the controversy between truth and error. And we are not left in doubt as to the issue. Now, as in the days of Mordecai, the Lord will vindicate His truth and His people.


THE WATCHMAN
July 14, 1908

The Government of GodThere is one pointed out in prophecy as the man of sin. Taking the suggestion of Satan concerning the law of God, which is as unchangeable as his throne, the man of sin represents to the world that he has changed that law, and that the first day of the week instead of the seventh is now the Sabbath. Professing infallibility, he claims the right to change the law of God to suit his own purposes. By so doing he exalts himself above God, and leaves the world to infer that God is fallible. If it were indeed true that God made a rule of government that needed to be changed, it would certainly show fallibility.
But Christ declared that not one jot or tittle of the law should fail until heaven and earth should pass away. The very work that he came to do was to exalt that law, and show to the universe that God is just and his law unchangeable. But here is the papacy trying to amend the law; and the Christian world has sanctioned its efforts by adopting the Sunday institution.
God has borne long with the perversity of the human race; he has tried to win them to himself. But the time will come when they will have filled their measure of iniquity; and then it is that God will work. This time is almost reached. God keeps a record with the nations in the books of heaven, and soon their cup will be full. And every one who sees the light in regard to the law of God, should help to repair the breach that has been made in that law by the man of sin. "And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places; thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations. And thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in. If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honorable, and shalt honor him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words; then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father; for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it."
We should consider that it was not merely to accomplish the redemption of man that Christ came to earth; it was not merely that the inhabitants of this little world might have a just regard for the law of God; but it was to demonstrate to all the worlds that the divine law is unchangeable, and that the wages of sin is death. The very fact that it was necessary for him to give his life for the fallen race, shows that the law of God will not release man from one tittle of its claims upon him. The fact that he bore the penalty of transgression is a mighty argument to all created intelligences, in heaven and in other worlds, that that law is changeless; that God is righteous, merciful, and self-denying; and that his administration is one of justice and mercy.


MANUSCRIPT RELEASES, VOL. 17 [NOS. 1236-1300], PAGE 81

We must not be afraid of being singular. Do not court singularity for the sake of being odd, but for the sake of avoiding sin and dishonor to God. And in this case we are not to mind even the multitude who are against us. "Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil" (Exodus 23:2). Because the law of God is made void in our world, does it make it a virtue to transgress that law? It may appear to the world a very small matter for the Christian to be in harmony with the world by just the act of keeping Sunday for the Sabbath in the place of the seventh day, but God's Word says the seventh day is "My holy day." The man of sin says, "I make a sabbath for you and you must keep the first day of the week."
The God-fearing Christian sees that Satan is tempting, "Worship me" and "all these things will I give thee." But naked duty must be chosen. Worship God in obeying His commandments, and [do] not bow the knee to the man of sin. Let not Satan's bribe be accepted, but manfully be true to God. Even if the world calls you singular, that which is right in God's sight, do. "He that walketh uprightly walketh surely" (Proverbs 10:9).
We thank the Lord that a few have had the moral courage in Nimes to cease to longer transgress the law of God, to accept the light and take their position firmly to keep the Sabbath that God has sanctified and blessed. Let the light shine forth from these few in bright, steady rays, reflecting light upon those who are in darkness. Said Christ to His disciples, "Ye are the light of the world."


THE GREAT CONTROVERSY, PAGE 589 - 592

Through spiritualism, Satan appears as a benefactor of the race, healing the diseases of the people, and professing to present a new and more exalted system of religious faith; but at the same time he works as a destroyer. His temptations are leading multitudes to ruin. Intemperance dethrones reason; sensual indulgence, strife, and bloodshed follow. Satan delights in war, for it excites the worst passions of the soul and then sweeps into eternity its victims steeped in vice and blood. It is his object to incite the nations to war against one another, for he can thus divert the minds of the people from the work of preparation to stand in the day of God.
Satan works through the elements also to garner his harvest of unprepared souls. He has studied the secrets of the laboratories of nature, and he uses all his power to control the elements as far as God allows. When he was suffered to afflict Job, how quickly flocks and herds, servants, houses, children, were swept away, one trouble succeeding another as in a moment. It is God that shields His creatures and hedges them in from the power of the destroyer. But the Christian world have shown contempt for the law of Jehovah; and the Lord will do just what He has declared that He would—He will withdraw His blessings from the earth and remove His protecting care from those who are rebelling against His law and teaching and forcing others to do the same. Satan has control of all whom God does not especially guard. He will favor and prosper some in order to further his own designs, and he will bring trouble upon others and lead men to believe that it is God who is afflicting them.
While appearing to the children of men as a great physician who can heal all their maladies, he will bring disease and disaster, until populous cities are reduced to ruin and desolation. Even now he is at work. In accidents and calamities by sea and by land, in great conflagrations, in fierce tornadoes and terrific hailstorms, in tempests, floods, cyclones, tidal waves, and earthquakes, in every place and in a thousand forms, Satan is exercising his power. He sweeps away the ripening harvest, and famine and distress follow. He imparts to the air a deadly taint, and thousands perish by the pestilence. These visitations are to become more and more frequent and disastrous. Destruction will be upon both man and beast. "The earth mourneth and fadeth away," "the haughty people ... do languish. The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant." Isaiah 24:4, 5.
And then the great deceiver will persuade men that those who serve God are causing these evils. The class that have provoked the displeasure of Heaven will charge all their troubles upon those whose obedience to God's commandments is a perpetual reproof to transgressors. It will be declared that men are offending God by the violation of the Sunday sabbath; that this sin has brought calamities which will not cease until Sunday observance shall be strictly enforced; and that those who present the claims of the fourth commandment, thus destroying reverence for Sunday, are troublers of the people, preventing their restoration to divine favor and temporal prosperity. Thus the accusation urged of old against the servant of God will be repeated and upon grounds equally well established: "And it came to pass, when Ahab saw Elijah, that Ahab said unto him, Art thou he that troubleth Israel? And he answered, I have not troubled Israel; but thou, and thy father's house, in that ye have forsaken the commandments of the Lord, and thou hast followed Baalim." 1 Kings 18:17, 18. As the wrath of the people shall be excited by false charges, they will pursue a course toward God's ambassadors very similar to that which apostate Israel pursued toward Elijah.
The miracle-working power manifested through spiritualism will exert its influence against those who choose to obey God rather than men. Communications from the spirits will declare that God has sent them to convince the rejecters of Sunday of their error, affirming that the laws of the land should be obeyed as the law of God. They will lament the great wickedness in the world and second the testimony of religious teachers that the degraded state of morals is caused by the desecration of Sunday. Great will be the indignation excited against all who refuse to accept their testimony.
Satan's policy in this final conflict with God's people is the same that he employed in the opening of the great controversy in heaven. He professed to be seeking to promote the stability of the divine government, while secretly bending every effort to secure its overthrow. And the very work which he was thus endeavoring to accomplish he charged upon the loyal angels. The same policy of deception has marked the history of the Roman Church. It has professed to act as the vicegerent of Heaven, while seeking to exalt itself above God and to change His law. Under the rule of Rome, those who suffered death for their fidelity to the gospel were denounced as evildoers; they were declared to be in league with Satan; and every possible means was employed to cover them with reproach, to cause them to appear in the eyes of the people and even to themselves as the vilest of criminals. So it will be now. While Satan seeks to destroy those who honor God's law, he will cause them to be accused as lawbreakers, as men who are dishonoring God and bringing judgments upon the world.
God never forces the will or the conscience; but Satan's constant resort—to gain control of those whom he cannot otherwise seduce—is compulsion by cruelty. Through fear or force he endeavors to rule the conscience and to secure homage to himself. To accomplish this, he works through both religious and secular authorities, moving them to the enforcement of human laws in defiance of the law of God.
Those who honor the Bible Sabbath will be denounced as enemies of law and order, as breaking down the moral restraints of society, causing anarchy and corruption, and calling down the judgments of God upon the earth. Their conscientious scruples will be pronounced obstinacy, stubbornness, and contempt of authority. They will be accused of disaffection toward the government. Ministers who deny the obligation of the divine law will present from the pulpit the duty of yielding obedience to the civil authorities as ordained of God. In legislative halls and courts of justice, commandment keepers will be misrepresented and condemned. A false coloring will be given to their words; the worst construction will be put upon their motives.
As the Protestant churches reject the clear, Scriptural arguments in defense of God's law, they will long to silence those whose faith they cannot overthrow by the Bible. Though they blind their own eyes to the fact, they are now adopting a course which will lead to the persecution of those who conscientiously refuse to do what the rest of the Christian world are doing, and acknowledge the claims of the papal sabbath.
The dignitaries of church and state will unite to bribe, persuade, or compel all classes to honor the Sunday. The lack of divine authority will be supplied by oppressive enactments. Political corruption is destroying love of justice and regard for truth; and even in free America, rulers and legislators, in order to secure public favor, will yield to the popular demand for a law enforcing Sunday observance. Liberty of conscience, which has cost so great a sacrifice, will no longer be respected. In the soon-coming conflict we shall see exemplified the prophet's words: "The dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." Revelation 12:17.

You ignore all of the above testimony and much more not quoted above, and zero in on one statement to the effect that the day of Christ's resurrection was a glorious day due to the same, and claim that this one statement means EGW supported Sunday sacredness. This is twisted reasoning, and you are the perpetrator of it. Your are making a mountain out of a non existent mole hill, and bearing false testimony about the witness and intentions of another who professes Jesus Christ as Lord. Please do reconsider your position in light of the same.

The bible does not state exactly when or what hour Christ arose, it does exactly state when humanity first became aware that He had risen, which was early Sunday morning.

The Bible does exactly state WHEN 'humanity first became aware' that He had risen and was risen.

It took 'humanity...exactly' from that Christ DIED "the first day they always had to KILL the passover", which was "the ninth hour"- 3PM and expected NEVER to see Him "alive risen / alive raised" AGAIN...

Then it took 'humanity...exactly' from that Christ had DIED, ANOTHER (2nd) day that He was BURIED "the first day they always had to EAT the passover, the FLESH with unleavened bread", and Joseph "mid-afternoon --3PM-- the Sabbath nearing...rolled the stone to close the grave..." NEVER to see Him "alive risen / alive raised" AGAIN...

Then it took 'humanity...exactly' from that Christ had been BURIED, ANOTHER (3rd) day that He was buried "WHEN LATE ON THE SABBATH IN THE MID-INCLINING-DAYLIGHT-SHINING (3PM) THERE SUDDENLY WAS A GREAT EARTHQUAKE AND THE ANGEL OF THE LORD FROM HEAVEN DESCENDING, APPEARING, CAST THE STONE FROM THE GRAVE..."  and 'humanity' unsuspecting, unawares, NEVER thought to see Him "risen and alive / raised and alive" AGAIN...

Then it took 'humanity...exactly' from that Christ had been RAISED, ANOTHER (4th) day that 'humanity' "BELIEVED NOT" and "were PERPLEXED" about what might have happened to his DEAD BODY until at last "being evening with reference to that day (after) the First Day of the week"—that is, ON THE 5TH after the day that Christ had DIED on, "Jesus stood among them" and 'humanity first, became aware that He had risen' and was risen and alive!

ONLY to Mary Magdalene when she expected the gardener for Jesus, "He early on the First Day, first APPEARED"; and as "the angel explained" 'early Sunday morning', to the other woman, next.

Ranting, raving, and threatening people with hell fire, explains nothing. The bible does not state exactly when or what hour Christ arose, it does exactly state when humanity first became aware that He had risen, which was early Sunday morning. Nor is the issue as important as you wish to make it, but in your own mind. Your warped perception concerning EGW's support for Sunday sacredness is straight up delusional. Her testimony that the day of Christ's resurrection was a wonderful day, was due to the fact that Christ rose on that day, not any kind of support for the invention of a spurious day of worship to replace the seventh day Sabbath. This is in your own mind alone, it does to exist on the plane of reality. The following are just a few of the very many testimonies she gave concerning the true nature of Sunday sacredness. All emphasis is mine.

Quote
TESTIMONY TREASURES, VOL. 2, PAGE 452
Church Schools*1900, Testimonies for the Church 6:193-205.

The Protestant churches have accepted the spurious sabbath, the child of the papacy, and have exalted it above God's holy, sanctified day. It is our work to make plain to our children that the first day of the week is not the true Sabbath, and that its observance, after light has come to us as to what is the true Sabbath, is a plain contradiction of the law of God. Do our children receive from the teachers in the public schools ideas that are in harmony with the word of God? Is sin presented as an offense against God? Is obedience to all the commandments of God taught as the beginning of all wisdom? We send our children to the Sabbath school that they may be instructed in regard to the truth, and then as they go to the day school, lessons containing falsehood are given them to learn. These things confuse the mind, and should not be; for if the young receive ideas that pervert the truth, how will the influence of this education be counteracted?


THE HOME MISSIONARY
November 1, 1893
Christ Our Helper in the Great Crisis

God will hold men accountable who have the plain teachings of his word, but disregard them and accept the sayings and customs of men. And yet how many are doing this! They reject the light in regard to the Sabbath, and trample upon God's holy day. Ministers and people, with the Bible open before them, show contempt for the words of God in his holy precepts, while they exalt a spurious Sabbath, which has no other foundation than the authority of the Roman Church. The claims of this spurious Sabbath are to be enforced upon the world. The Protestant churches, having received doctrines which the word of God condemns, will bring these to the front, and force them upon the consciences of men, just as the papal authorities urged their dogmas upon the advocates of truth in Luther's time. The same battle is again to be fought, and every soul will be called upon to decide upon which side of the controversy he will be found.

MANUSCRIPT RELEASES, VOL. 17 [NOS. 1236-1300], PAGE 7

"And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to Him; for the hour of His judgment is come: and worship Him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters" [Revelation 14:6, 7].
This message, if heeded, will call the attention of every nation and kindred and tongue and people to a close examination of the Word, and to the true light in regard to the power that has changed the Seventh-day Sabbath to a spurious sabbath. The only true God has been forsaken, His law has been discarded, His sacred Sabbath institution has been trampled in the dust by the man of sin. The fourth commandment, so plain and explicit, has been ignored. The Sabbath memorial, declaring who the living God is, the Creator of the heavens and the earth, has been torn down, and a spurious sabbath has been given to the world in its place. Thus a breach has been made in the law of God. A false sabbath could not be a true standard.
In the first angel's message men are called upon to worship God, our Creator, who made the world and all things that are therein. They have paid homage to an institution of the Papacy, making of no effect the law of Jehovah, but there is to be an increase of knowledge on this subject.


Ms 71, 1896

The righteous are to pray as never before. God has promised that He will avenge His own elect who cry day and night to Him, though He bear long with them. When truth appears to be overborne by falsehood, when an idol sabbath is erected as was the golden image in the plains of Dura, when the rulers take their place to compel the conscience, and by legislation exalt a spurious sabbath, Protestantism abjures the principles which gave her the name of Protestant, and supports an institution of the Papacy. Then it is time for God to work in indignation and vengeance. To those who give their power to suppress religious liberty He says, "Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire; for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her."


Ms 60, 1893

Directly across the road is the Catholic church. The Roman power has thought to change times and laws. It has claimed the power to change the law of God and to institute the first day of the week as what they call the Christian Sabbath. Here stands the little church to dispute the authority of the power of Rome to change the law of God. Those who are standing in defense of the Sabbath of the fourth commandment are refusing to bow in allegiance to a spurious idol sabbath that has for its authority the Roman Catholic sign or mark.


TESTIMONY TREASURES, VOL. 2, PAGE 318
The Impending Conflict*1889, Testimonies for the Church 5:711-718.

There are many, even of those engaged in this movement for Sunday enforcement, who are blinded to the results which will follow this action. They do not see that they are striking directly against religious liberty. There are many who have never understood the claims of the Bible Sabbath and the false foundation upon which the Sunday institution rests. Any movement in favor of religious legislation is really an act of concession to the papacy, which for so many ages has steadily warred against liberty of conscience. Sunday observance owes its existence as a so-called Christian institution to "the mystery of iniquity;" and its enforcement will be a virtual recognition of the principles which are the very cornerstone of Romanism. When our nation shall so abjure the principles of its government as to enact a Sunday law, Protestantism will in this act join hands with popery; it will be nothing else than giving life to the tyranny which has long been eagerly watching its opportunity to spring again into active despotism.


COUNSELS TO WRITERS AND EDITORS, PAGE 97

To Meet the Sunday-Law Movement—I do hope that the trumpet will give a certain sound in regard to this Sunday-law movement. I think that it would be best if in our papers the subject of the perpetuity of the law of God were made a specialty. Should there not be a paper or a pamphlet issued to take the place of the Sentinel? I have not been able to think that it was the wise thing to do to let that paper drop. It was a voice that was constantly speaking in defense of religious liberty. The truth should be presented in short articles, in clear, distinct lines, giving special points in regard to the Lord's Sabbath, and showing that those who frame laws to compel the observance of the first day of the week, are disloyal to the Lord of heaven, who placed His sanctity upon the seventh day. Are we doing all we can to exalt the law of Jehovah?
We should now be doing our very best to defeat this Sunday law. The best way to do this will be to lift up the law of God and make it stand forth in all its sacredness. This must be done if the truth triumphs.—Letter 58, 1906.


The Coming Crisis*1885, Testimonies for the Church 5:449-454.

"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." Revelation 12:17. In the near future we shall see these words fulfilled as the Protestant churches unite with the world and with the papal power against commandment keepers. The same spirit which actuated papists in ages past will lead Protestants to pursue a similar course toward those who will maintain their loyalty to God.
Church and state are now making preparations for the future conflict. Protestants are working in disguise to bring Sunday to the front, as did the Romanists. Throughout the land the papacy is piling up her lofty and massive structures, in the secret recesses of which her former persecutions are to be repeated. And the way is preparing for the manifestation, on a grand scale, of those lying wonders by which, if it were possible, Satan would deceive even the elect.
The decree which is to go forth against the people of God will be very similar to that issued by Ahasuerus against the Jews in the time of Esther. The Persian edict sprang from the malice of Haman toward Mordecai. Not that Mordecai had done him harm, but he had refused to show him reverence which belongs only to God. The king's decision against the Jews was secured under false pretenses through misrepresentation of that peculiar people. Satan instigated the scheme in order to rid the earth of those who preserved the knowledge of the true God. But his plots were defeated by a counterpower that reigns among the children of men. Angels that excel in strength were commissioned to protect the people of God, and the plots of their adversaries returned upon their own heads. The Protestant world today see in the little company keeping the Sabbath a Mordecai in the gate. His character and conduct, expressing reverence for the law of God, are a constant rebuke to those who have cast off the fear of the Lord and are trampling upon His Sabbath; the unwelcome intruder must by some means be put out of the way.
The same masterful mind that plotted against the faithful in ages past is still seeking to rid the earth of those who fear God and obey His law. Satan will excite indignation against the humble minority who conscientiously refuse to accept popular customs and traditions. Men of position and reputation will join with the lawless and the vile to take counsel against the people of God. Wealth, genius, education, will combine to cover them with contempt. Persecuting rulers, ministers, and church members will conspire against them. With voice and pen, by boasts, threats, and ridicule, they will seek to overthrow their faith. By false representations and angry appeals they will stir up the passions of the people. Not having a "Thus saith the Scriptures" to bring against the advocates of the Bible Sabbath, they will resort to oppressive enactments to supply the lack. To secure popularity and patronage, legislators will yield to the demand for a Sunday law. Those who fear God cannot accept an institution that violates a precept of the Decalogue. On this battlefield comes the last great conflict of the controversy between truth and error. And we are not left in doubt as to the issue. Now, as in the days of Mordecai, the Lord will vindicate His truth and His people.


THE WATCHMAN
July 14, 1908

The Government of GodThere is one pointed out in prophecy as the man of sin. Taking the suggestion of Satan concerning the law of God, which is as unchangeable as his throne, the man of sin represents to the world that he has changed that law, and that the first day of the week instead of the seventh is now the Sabbath. Professing infallibility, he claims the right to change the law of God to suit his own purposes. By so doing he exalts himself above God, and leaves the world to infer that God is fallible. If it were indeed true that God made a rule of government that needed to be changed, it would certainly show fallibility.
But Christ declared that not one jot or tittle of the law should fail until heaven and earth should pass away. The very work that he came to do was to exalt that law, and show to the universe that God is just and his law unchangeable. But here is the papacy trying to amend the law; and the Christian world has sanctioned its efforts by adopting the Sunday institution.
God has borne long with the perversity of the human race; he has tried to win them to himself. But the time will come when they will have filled their measure of iniquity; and then it is that God will work. This time is almost reached. God keeps a record with the nations in the books of heaven, and soon their cup will be full. And every one who sees the light in regard to the law of God, should help to repair the breach that has been made in that law by the man of sin. "And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places; thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations. And thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in. If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honorable, and shalt honor him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words; then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father; for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it."
We should consider that it was not merely to accomplish the redemption of man that Christ came to earth; it was not merely that the inhabitants of this little world might have a just regard for the law of God; but it was to demonstrate to all the worlds that the divine law is unchangeable, and that the wages of sin is death. The very fact that it was necessary for him to give his life for the fallen race, shows that the law of God will not release man from one tittle of its claims upon him. The fact that he bore the penalty of transgression is a mighty argument to all created intelligences, in heaven and in other worlds, that that law is changeless; that God is righteous, merciful, and self-denying; and that his administration is one of justice and mercy.


MANUSCRIPT RELEASES, VOL. 17 [NOS. 1236-1300], PAGE 81

We must not be afraid of being singular. Do not court singularity for the sake of being odd, but for the sake of avoiding sin and dishonor to God. And in this case we are not to mind even the multitude who are against us. "Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil" (Exodus 23:2). Because the law of God is made void in our world, does it make it a virtue to transgress that law? It may appear to the world a very small matter for the Christian to be in harmony with the world by just the act of keeping Sunday for the Sabbath in the place of the seventh day, but God's Word says the seventh day is "My holy day." The man of sin says, "I make a sabbath for you and you must keep the first day of the week."
The God-fearing Christian sees that Satan is tempting, "Worship me" and "all these things will I give thee." But naked duty must be chosen. Worship God in obeying His commandments, and [do] not bow the knee to the man of sin. Let not Satan's bribe be accepted, but manfully be true to God. Even if the world calls you singular, that which is right in God's sight, do. "He that walketh uprightly walketh surely" (Proverbs 10:9).
We thank the Lord that a few have had the moral courage in Nimes to cease to longer transgress the law of God, to accept the light and take their position firmly to keep the Sabbath that God has sanctified and blessed. Let the light shine forth from these few in bright, steady rays, reflecting light upon those who are in darkness. Said Christ to His disciples, "Ye are the light of the world."


THE GREAT CONTROVERSY, PAGE 589 - 592

Through spiritualism, Satan appears as a benefactor of the race, healing the diseases of the people, and professing to present a new and more exalted system of religious faith; but at the same time he works as a destroyer. His temptations are leading multitudes to ruin. Intemperance dethrones reason; sensual indulgence, strife, and bloodshed follow. Satan delights in war, for it excites the worst passions of the soul and then sweeps into eternity its victims steeped in vice and blood. It is his object to incite the nations to war against one another, for he can thus divert the minds of the people from the work of preparation to stand in the day of God.
Satan works through the elements also to garner his harvest of unprepared souls. He has studied the secrets of the laboratories of nature, and he uses all his power to control the elements as far as God allows. When he was suffered to afflict Job, how quickly flocks and herds, servants, houses, children, were swept away, one trouble succeeding another as in a moment. It is God that shields His creatures and hedges them in from the power of the destroyer. But the Christian world have shown contempt for the law of Jehovah; and the Lord will do just what He has declared that He would—He will withdraw His blessings from the earth and remove His protecting care from those who are rebelling against His law and teaching and forcing others to do the same. Satan has control of all whom God does not especially guard. He will favor and prosper some in order to further his own designs, and he will bring trouble upon others and lead men to believe that it is God who is afflicting them.
While appearing to the children of men as a great physician who can heal all their maladies, he will bring disease and disaster, until populous cities are reduced to ruin and desolation. Even now he is at work. In accidents and calamities by sea and by land, in great conflagrations, in fierce tornadoes and terrific hailstorms, in tempests, floods, cyclones, tidal waves, and earthquakes, in every place and in a thousand forms, Satan is exercising his power. He sweeps away the ripening harvest, and famine and distress follow. He imparts to the air a deadly taint, and thousands perish by the pestilence. These visitations are to become more and more frequent and disastrous. Destruction will be upon both man and beast. "The earth mourneth and fadeth away," "the haughty people ... do languish. The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant." Isaiah 24:4, 5.
And then the great deceiver will persuade men that those who serve God are causing these evils. The class that have provoked the displeasure of Heaven will charge all their troubles upon those whose obedience to God's commandments is a perpetual reproof to transgressors. It will be declared that men are offending God by the violation of the Sunday sabbath; that this sin has brought calamities which will not cease until Sunday observance shall be strictly enforced; and that those who present the claims of the fourth commandment, thus destroying reverence for Sunday, are troublers of the people, preventing their restoration to divine favor and temporal prosperity. Thus the accusation urged of old against the servant of God will be repeated and upon grounds equally well established: "And it came to pass, when Ahab saw Elijah, that Ahab said unto him, Art thou he that troubleth Israel? And he answered, I have not troubled Israel; but thou, and thy father's house, in that ye have forsaken the commandments of the Lord, and thou hast followed Baalim." 1 Kings 18:17, 18. As the wrath of the people shall be excited by false charges, they will pursue a course toward God's ambassadors very similar to that which apostate Israel pursued toward Elijah.
The miracle-working power manifested through spiritualism will exert its influence against those who choose to obey God rather than men. Communications from the spirits will declare that God has sent them to convince the rejecters of Sunday of their error, affirming that the laws of the land should be obeyed as the law of God. They will lament the great wickedness in the world and second the testimony of religious teachers that the degraded state of morals is caused by the desecration of Sunday. Great will be the indignation excited against all who refuse to accept their testimony.
Satan's policy in this final conflict with God's people is the same that he employed in the opening of the great controversy in heaven. He professed to be seeking to promote the stability of the divine government, while secretly bending every effort to secure its overthrow. And the very work which he was thus endeavoring to accomplish he charged upon the loyal angels. The same policy of deception has marked the history of the Roman Church. It has professed to act as the vicegerent of Heaven, while seeking to exalt itself above God and to change His law. Under the rule of Rome, those who suffered death for their fidelity to the gospel were denounced as evildoers; they were declared to be in league with Satan; and every possible means was employed to cover them with reproach, to cause them to appear in the eyes of the people and even to themselves as the vilest of criminals. So it will be now. While Satan seeks to destroy those who honor God's law, he will cause them to be accused as lawbreakers, as men who are dishonoring God and bringing judgments upon the world.
God never forces the will or the conscience; but Satan's constant resort—to gain control of those whom he cannot otherwise seduce—is compulsion by cruelty. Through fear or force he endeavors to rule the conscience and to secure homage to himself. To accomplish this, he works through both religious and secular authorities, moving them to the enforcement of human laws in defiance of the law of God.
Those who honor the Bible Sabbath will be denounced as enemies of law and order, as breaking down the moral restraints of society, causing anarchy and corruption, and calling down the judgments of God upon the earth. Their conscientious scruples will be pronounced obstinacy, stubbornness, and contempt of authority. They will be accused of disaffection toward the government. Ministers who deny the obligation of the divine law will present from the pulpit the duty of yielding obedience to the civil authorities as ordained of God. In legislative halls and courts of justice, commandment keepers will be misrepresented and condemned. A false coloring will be given to their words; the worst construction will be put upon their motives.
As the Protestant churches reject the clear, Scriptural arguments in defense of God's law, they will long to silence those whose faith they cannot overthrow by the Bible. Though they blind their own eyes to the fact, they are now adopting a course which will lead to the persecution of those who conscientiously refuse to do what the rest of the Christian world are doing, and acknowledge the claims of the papal sabbath.
The dignitaries of church and state will unite to bribe, persuade, or compel all classes to honor the Sunday. The lack of divine authority will be supplied by oppressive enactments. Political corruption is destroying love of justice and regard for truth; and even in free America, rulers and legislators, in order to secure public favor, will yield to the popular demand for a law enforcing Sunday observance. Liberty of conscience, which has cost so great a sacrifice, will no longer be respected. In the soon-coming conflict we shall see exemplified the prophet's words: "The dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." Revelation 12:17.

You ignore all of the above testimony and much more not quoted above, and zero in on one statement to the effect that the day of Christ's resurrection was a glorious day due to the same, and claim that this one statement means EGW supported Sunday sacredness. This is twisted reasoning, and you are the perpetrator of it. Your are making a mountain out of a non existent mole hill, and bearing false testimony about the witness and intentions of another who professes Jesus Christ as Lord. Please do reconsider your position in light of the same. 

You are, o, so right! 'Ranting, raving, and threatening people with hell fire, explains nothing.' and, I do, 'ignore' and REJECT 'all of the above --FAKE-- threatening'!

Then it took 'humanity...exactly' from that Christ had been BURIED, ANOTHER (3rd) day that He was buried "WHEN LATE ON THE SABBATH IN THE MID-INCLINING-DAYLIGHT-SHINING (3PM) THERE SUDDENLY WAS A GREAT EARTHQUAKE AND THE ANGEL OF THE LORD FROM HEAVEN DESCENDING, APPEARING, CAST THE STONE FROM THE GRAVE..."  and 'humanity' unsuspecting, unawares, NEVER thought to see Him "risen and alive / raised and alive" AGAIN...

The above is not scripture. If it is, give the chapter and verse. If it isn't it means nothing.

: Gerhard Ebersöhn  Sun Dec 03, 2017 - 11:30:36
You are, o, so right! 'Ranting, raving, and threatening people with hell fire, explains nothing.' and, I do, 'ignore' and REJECT 'all of the above --FAKE-- testimony'!

Yea, I know, never mind what she actually said, she said what you say she said.

The above is not scripture. If it is, give the chapter and verse. If it isn't it means nothing.

Dag drie : Die engel van die Here en die OPSTANDING

Matteus 28:1-4
... maar laat op die Sabbat in die mid-namiddag
... ὀψὲ δὲ σαββάτων, τῇ ἐπιφωσκούσῃ
. . . [but] in the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn

teen die Eerste Dag van die week, het Maria Magdalena
εἰς μίαν σαββάτων, ἦλθεν Μαριὰμ ἡ Μαγδαληνὴ
towards the First Day of the week, came May Magdalene

en die ander Maria uitgegaan om te gaan kyk (na) die graf.
καὶ ἡ ἄλλη Μαρία θεωρῆσαι τὸν τάφον.
and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

2 Maar net toe was daar 'n groot aardbewing want 'n engel
καὶ ἰδοὺ σεισμὸς ἐγένετο μέγας· ἄγγελος γὰρ
And behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel

van die Here het uit die hemel neergedaal en soos hy aankom,
Κυρίου καταβὰς ἐξ οὐρανοῦ καὶ προσελθὼν
of the Lord descended from heaven, and came

het hy die klip weggewerp van die deur af en daarop gaan sit.
ἀπεκύλισεν τὸν λίθον (ἀπὸ τῆς θύρας) καὶ ἐκάθητο ἐπάνω αὐτοῦ.
and rolled the stone from the door, and sat on it.

3 Sy verskyning was soos weerlig en sy kleding wit soos sneeu.
ἦν δὲ ἡ εἰδέα αὐτοῦ ὡς ἀστραπὴ, καὶ τὸ ἔνδυμα αὐτοῦ λευκὸν ὡς χιών.
His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow.

4 Van skrik vir hom het die wagte stuiptrekkend neergeval
ἀπὸ δὲ τοῦ φόβου αὐτοῦ ἐσείσθησαν οἱ τηροῦντες
And for fear of him the keepers did shake,

en bewusteloos geword soos dooies,
καὶ ἐγενήθησαν ὡς (ἐγένοντο ὡσεὶ) νεκροί.
and became as dead.

5a het die engel aan die vroue verduidelik . . .
ἀποκριθεὶς δὲ ὁ ἄγγελος εἶπεν ταῖς γυναιξίν . . .
answered the angel ... the women . . .

"in the end of the Sabbath" is literal, "in the mid-inclining-day-light-shining / being turned towards the First Day of the week"
"in the", 'tehi'
"mid-inclining", 'epi' -
"day-light", 'phohs'
"-shining / being-", 'ous+ehi'
"turned unto" / "beginning to dawn towards" KJV, 'eis'
"the First Day of the week", 'mian (hehmeran) sabbatohn'.

Matthew 28:1 in 'old' and 'new translations
http://biblehub.com/goc/matthew/28.htm
1Ὀψὲ δὲ σαββάτων, τῇ ἐπιφωσκούσῃ εἰς μίαν σαββάτων, ἦλθε Μαρία ἡ Μαγδαληνὴ καὶ ἡ ἄλλη Μαρία θεωρῆσαι τὸν τάφον. 2καὶ ἰδοὺ σεισμὸς ἐγένετο μέγας· ἄγγελος γὰρ Κυρίου καταβὰς ἐξ οὐρανοῦ προσελθὼν ἀπεκύλισε τὸν λίθον ἀπὸ τῆς θύρας καὶ ἐκάθητο ἐπάνω αὐτοῦ. 3ἦν δὲ ἡ ἰδέα αὐτοῦ ὡς ἀστραπὴ καὶ τὸ ἔνδυμα αὐτοῦ λευκὸν ὡσεὶ χιών. 4ἀπὸ δὲ τοῦ φόβου αὐτοῦ ἐσείσθησαν οἱ τηροῦντες καὶ ἐγένοντο ὡσεὶ νεκροί. 5ἀποκριθεὶς δὲ ὁ ἄγγελος εἶπε ταῖς γυναιξί·
1Ὀψὲ δὲ σαββάτων, τῇ ἐπιφωσκούσῃ εἰς μίαν σαββάτων,
'opse de sabbatohn tehi epiphohskousehi eis Mian sabbatohn':-
KJV 1611,
"In the end of the Sabbath as it (the end of the Sabbath) began to dawn towards the First Day of the week...."
Literal: "In Sabbath's fullness being-in- the mid-inclining-day-light towards the First Day of the week",
'opse sabbatohn', "Sabbath's fullness-of-day"
'tehi', "in the"
'epi', "mid-inclining"
'phohs', "day-light"
'ous-ehi', "being(shining)"
'eis', "beginning to dawn towards / against / before / unto"
'Mian (hehmeran) sabbatohn', "the First Day of the week".
Αφού δε επέρασε το σάββατον, περί τα χαράγματα της πρώτης
ημέρας της εβδομάδος ήλθε Μαρία η Μαγδαληνή και η άλλη
Μαρία, διά να θεωρήσωσι τον τάφον.
Μετάφραση Νεόφυτου Βάμβα. Greek: N. Vamvas (Bambas) New
Testament. [published after 1924]
'Αφού' ('aphíehmi'), 'to let go', 'to let pass'; 'aphosioûsthai tohi
theohi', 'time to make expiatory offerings to a god'.
'επέρασε' from 'perisseúoh', 'surplus', 'excess', 'residue'; 'ta
peritteúonta', 'what remains over'.
'peri', 'the latter', 'about'.
'το σάββατον' Nominative Subject, 'the Sabbath (Seventh Day) of
the week'.
'τα χαράγματα' from 'to cháragma', 'palisade', 'mark', 'trench'.
'της πρώτης ημέρας', 'of the First Day'
'της εβδομάδος' for 'sabbátohn', 'of the week'.
Thus...
"The Seventh Day of the week the latter outgoing remaining
time at the marking (dawn) of the First Day of the week."
Καὶ ἤγγισεν εἰς τὴν μίαν σαββάτων οὗ ἐπορεύετο / ἐπορεύθη τὸ σάββατον [GE]
Objector:
I have no idea what you're trying to say.
GE:
I'm saying in 'alternative' Greek just what Matthew 28:1a says and means.
Literally, I am saying,
Καὶ ἤγγισεν εἰς τὴν μίαν σαββάτων οὗ ἐπορεύετο / ἐπορεύθη τὸ σάββατον
"And drew near to the First Day of the week the Sabbath while going out" or "Then while the Sabbath was ending and approached the First Day of the week . . .".
In other words, I make "The Sabbath" the Subject, Nominative, "drawing near to the First Day and going out at its end when there suddenly was a great earthquake and the angel of the Lord descended."
Does it now make sense?
Turkish:
<< Matta 28 >>
Matthew 28 Turkish
1  Şabat Gününü izleyen haftanın ilk günü, tan yeri ağarırken, Mecdelli Meryem ile öbür Meryem mezarı görmeye gittiler
a. 'Sabat'—Sabbath
'Gününü'—Daylight shining
'izleyen'—Light surplus following in the end
'haftanın'—of the week (Sabbath)
'ilk'—middle moderate / coming (towards)
'günü'—sun (down) eclipse (turning of)
'tan'—dawn witness diagnose define towards
'yeri'—seat rest
'ağarırken'-'agir'—slow down lazy, and -'irk'—dark night
b. 'Mecdelli Meryem'—Mary Magdalene
'ile öbür Meryem'—with the other Mary
'mezarı'—to the grave
'görmeye'—to see / to visit
'gittiler'—stepped out began to proceed (on purpose / by degree - began to)

You need more?

There are 32 English Bibles from the 18th century and 64 English Bibles from the 19th century plus I can't remember how many English Bibles from before the 18th century PLUS a number OF THE BEST from the 20th century, ALL virtually exactly the same as above.

One in particular, 1961 and 1968 I think or perhaps 1941 and 1948 an English translation which used 850 common English words and 150 specific Bible words in English, that is, ONLY 1000 most common ENGLISH words to translate the WHOLE Bible with, and USES "late on the Sabbath, towards the First Day of the week" in Matthew 28:1!

But the omniscient SDA Amo knows better and declares like one hell of a RC pontif, Quote, 'The above is not scripture. If it is, give the chapter and verse. If it isn't it means nothing.'

Amo:

Yea, I know, never mind what she actually said, she said what you say she said.

GE:
I have said it several times, and now say it again, that the SDA church and its PEOPLE are those who have made of Mrs. E.G. White and of the writings of Mrs E.G. White the intimidating monstrosity she (it) is become.

These are the last days we are living in. These are my last days I am living out. Do not expect of me to spare the fraud the cane of God's Word!

Ramble on bro.

https://www.coraevans.com/blog/article/this-is-the-most-complete-list-of-marian-apparitions

The dead speaking to the living.

All emphasis in the following quotes which may be viewed at the links provided is mine.

https://fatherofloveandmercy.wordpress.com/2012/02/08/crusade-prayer-28-virgin-mary-prayer-for-unification-of-all-christian-churches/

Crusade of Prayer (28) Virgin Mary prayer for unification of all Christian Churches

All of you with a devotion to my Son must put your differences aside and join together to fight the anti-christ.

Pray for the unification of all God's children through this special Crusade Prayer (28)

"O God of the Most High, we kneel before You to beg for the unification of all Your children in the fight to retain Your Christian Churches on earth.

Let not our differences divide us at this time of great apostasy in the world.

In our love for You, dear Father, we beseech You to give us the graces to love one another in the Name of Your beloved Son, Our Saviour, Jesus Christ.

We adore You.  We love You.   We unite to fight for the strength to retain Your Christian Churches on earth in the trials we may face in the years ahead. Amen."

Trust in me children to guide you towards the New Paradise and my Son's reign on earth as it is meant to be.

Your loving Mother
Mother of Salvation

https://ronconte.wordpress.com/2013/08/08/unification-of-all-christians-in-one-church/

Unification of all Christians in one Church

by Ron Conte

excerpt from my book: The Secrets of La Salette and the End Times:

3. "A protestant nation from the north will convert to the faith and, by means of this nation, the other nations will return to the faith."

Here the Virgin Mary is clearly predicting the unification of all Christians in one holy Catholic Church. One Christian denomination returns first, and then the others follow. But this particular Protestant denomination is closely associated with a nation, a nation in the north. The only Protestant Church that fits this description is the Anglican Church, also called the Church of England. Anglicanism is the official State religion of England (although citizens are free to worship as they choose). The other Protestant Churches are not so closely associated with any nation. Therefore, the Anglican Church returns to unity with the Catholic Church first. Then, by means of their return, the other Protestant denominations follow, one Church after another, one nation after another.

It is remarkable, even astounding, that we are already seeing the beginning of this prophecy unfold. The Catholic Church has approved of Anglican Ordinariates, which are a type of diocese for Anglicans who have converted to become fully Catholic. But they organize themselves in what is like a diocese, but not strictly tied to a geographic location. An Anglican Ordinariate would generally overlap at least a few different dioceses, but as if the Ordinariate were a separate diocese. These Ordinariates have a different form for the Mass. They permit the use of the Anglican Book of Common Prayer. The Mass is similar to the Anglican worship services, but the celebrant is a validly-ordained Catholic priest (perhaps a convert from Anglicanism) and the Mass is entirely licit.......................................

The dead want us all to unite back under the Church of Rome. Protestants who identified the Church of Rome as the system of anti-christ, are now to return to her in order to fight anti-christ. So why has changed and is expected to continue to change in this scenario?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPdZPzE9oU0

More communication from the dead to the living.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2w-vWIMRE9w

Takes a while to get to the part about Mary, informative video. Some will learn from it, some will despise it.

Amo:
Quote Gerhard Ebersöhn
Then it took 'humanity...exactly' from that Christ had been BURIED, ANOTHER (3rd) day that He was buried "WHEN LATE ON THE SABBATH IN THE MID-INCLINING-DAYLIGHT-SHINING (3PM) THERE SUDDENLY WAS A GREAT EARTHQUAKE AND THE ANGEL OF THE LORD FROM HEAVEN DESCENDING, APPEARING, CAST THE STONE FROM THE GRAVE..."  and 'humanity' unsuspecting, unawares, NEVER thought to see Him "risen and alive / raised and alive" AGAIN...

Amo:
Re: The Two Great Errors
« Reply #106 on: Sun Dec 03, 2017 - 11:33:28 »
The above is not scripture. If it is, give the chapter and verse. If it isn't it means nothing.

GE answers:

The above is Matthew 28:1-4 refer post #108

Now do you say 'humanity' suspecting, awares, thought to see Him "risen and alive / raised and alive" AGAIN ?!

Now you can see the SDA do exactly what the rest of Christianity, the RC, the Anglicans, Lutherans and the WHOLE of Protestantism are DOING: CHANGE the Law and Times of God where it MATTERS: Where the Scriptures USED to say "On the Sabbath before the First Day", to now force it to say, 'AFTER the Sabbath ON the First Day' as Justin Martyr gave them the first example and was sainted for it by them.

Just keep rambling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TS1GC2kX9HY

This woman knows something is wrong, her eyes are being opened. I don't think she quite grasps the facilitating nature of the leadership of her church towards the accomplishment of its goals. They ride upon the back of governments and elites manipulating the same toward the realization of world domination. They can and will just as easily ride upon the back of a conservative movement fighting against the lefty agenda Rome is now riding upon, if and when a paradigm shift occurs in that direction. Which appears to be picking up momentum currently. In any case, the above reveals Rome's methodology in embracing and accommodating the worlds elites while steering them unto the fulfillment of her own religio-political agenda. While she seeks to serve and rely upon the dead rather than God, it is not likely that her eyes can be opened to the deceptive teachings and practices of the institution she belongs to unto deliverance from the same. Come out, come out of her God's people.

..........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7NssoTkneI&list=PLKLd3ZVgsGk8&index=11

Good one covering the subject of this long forgotten topic.