was he a Christian or not - this the greatest man born - wincam
: wincam Thu Sep 01, 2016 - 14:29:46
was he a Christian or not - this the greatest man born - wincam
Not according to scripture.
Nope. He was no more a Christian than Elijah or Noah or Abraham.
so we see that even though the spirit was given the Christian baptism was not - wincam
: winsome Sun Sep 04, 2016 - 13:49:56
: wincam Thu Sep 01, 2016 - 14:29:46
was he a Christian or not - this the greatest man born - wincam
Not according to scripture.
so we see that even though the Spirit was given Christian baptism was not - wincam
: winsome Sun Sep 04, 2016 - 13:49:56
: wincam Thu Sep 01, 2016 - 14:29:46
was he a Christian or not - this the greatest man born - wincam
Not according to scripture.
so we see that even though the Spirit was given Christian baptism was not - wincam
: wincam Sun Sep 04, 2016 - 18:23:18
so we see that even though the spirit was given the Christian baptism was not - wincam
: wincam Sun Sep 04, 2016 - 18:26:30
so we see that even though the Spirit was given Christian baptism was not - wincam
: wincam Sun Sep 04, 2016 - 18:50:34
so we see that even though the Spirit was given Christian baptism was not - wincam
Repeating answers doesn't make them understandable.
Could you translate them into proper English. Please.
John the Baptist received the HS whilst still in his mother's womb but not Christian baptism it seems - wincam
To wincam
What is the point of what you are saying?
Stranger
it is insufficient to just be born of the HS - the specified requirement is water and spirit in the name of the Father, Son and HS - wincam
Wincam
John the Baptist did not receive any Christian baptism. True. And John the Baptist did not receive the same Spirit that was present at Pentacost.
The Spirit at Pentacost was the Spirit of the glorified Jesus Christ. This could not occur until Christ was glorified in the presence of the Father.
John 7:37-39 "In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)"
The Spirit that John received was the Holy Spirit. The Spirit that believers received was the Spirit in its union with Jesus Christ, due to the resurrection.
Rom. 8:9 " But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."
Col. 1:27 " To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory."
I see water baptism was your main point, but i felt this needed to be stated.
Stranger
Stranger, the Spirit that was present at creation is the same Spirit who indwells those who belong to Jesus.
Nevertheless
Yes, I would say, but different. For the Spirit that indwells us is the Spirit in its union with the person of Christ. That could only be possible after the Spirits work in the resurrection and ascension. Thus we are called the 'Body of Christ'.
So, though John the Baptist was full of the Holy Spirit, it was not the Spirit united to the person of Christ.
Stranger
: Stranger Wed Sep 07, 2016 - 03:49:09So, though John the Baptist was full of the Holy Spirit, it was not the Spirit united to the person of Christ.
It most certainly was. Question for you~
"Can true Divinity be derived or propagated? The very thought of this in a positive way is blasphemy against the God of the holy scriptures~and I do not think you would desire to do this. The answer to my question to you is of course, NO. Your understanding has the Godhead being propagated, whether you understand this, or not, it does. I have heard people trying to convince me, that the Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of God are not one and the same, but they are indeed. I could say more, but enough to cause you to re-think your position.
RB
Little early for blasphemy charges. Explain your question to me more.
Stranger
RB
How does my understanding have God being propagated?
And, what does this verse mean? Ps. 2:7 " I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee."
Stranger
I think Stranger has made a very good point.
He said, "So, though John the Baptist was full of the Holy Spirit, it was not the Spirit united to the person of Christ."
It was the same Holy Spirit for Paul said there is only one Spirit. I think what Stranger is relating to is that the Holy Spirit in Christ was in a different dimension than that possible for John the Baptist, at the time.
The Holy Spirit that came at Pentecost was the dimension in which Christ was filled, but wasn't possible before for any other because the Holy Spirit could not take possession of any other until the death and resurrection of Christ. The Holy Spirit was then able to legally manifest Himself in man in a way not possible before due to the sin debt being paid by Christ.
This is the dimension of the Holy Spirit that Christ temporarily breathed on the Apostles for the power of miracles, but this dimension could not legally indwell yet, it had to come from Christ as a power upon. It later came permanantly to indwell at Pentecost. The mighty wind, the tongues of fire, and speaking in tongues was the dimension of the Holy Spirit that man had never known before.
I believe Stranger is right! The Holy Spirit that filled John was legally limited, but the same Holy Spirit in Christ had no limits.
all this and much else that follows here as elsewhere is a result or consequence of misinterpretation originally as to exactly what the significance, purpose, reason here is for Pentecost in spite of the fact that Jesus clearly told us and actually resulted that is of major significance but just has not seemed to register - twinc
: wincam Wed Sep 07, 2016 - 07:51:56
all this and much else that follows here as elsewhere is a result or consequence of misinterpretation originally as to exactly what the significance, purpose, reason here is for Pentecost in spite of the fact that Jesus clearly told us and actually resulted that is of major significance but just has not seemed to register - twinc
wincam, what do you believe is the significance and purpose of Pentecost?
The Bible - wincam
to grasp that this is so requires serious study and serious reflection not possible it seems for most - wincam
Charlie24
Your reply #16 was stated very well.
Stranger
: wincam Wed Sep 07, 2016 - 08:03:57
The Bible - wincam
The purpose of Pentecost was for man to receive the indwelling Holy Spirit.
John 7:39
"(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)"
Jesus was glorified at His resurrection where He received a glorified body. By paying the sin debt for man and by His resurrection, we can now receive the indwelling Holy Spirit which was not possible before.
Christ was glorified in the Father several times throughout His ministry, but this glorification was the crowned jewel, so to speak. It made possible the Holy Spirit to dwell in our spirit permanantly.
silly billy - these quotes are only possible because of and from the Bible - wincam
: wincam Wed Sep 07, 2016 - 08:30:25
silly billy - these quotes are only possible because of and from the Bible - wincam
wincam, I think you have crossed over to another dimension, one that I can't interpret.
: Charlie24 Wed Sep 07, 2016 - 08:32:51
: wincam Wed Sep 07, 2016 - 08:30:25
silly billy - these quotes are only possible because of and from the Bible - wincam
wincam, I think you have crossed over to another dimension, one that I can't interpret.
the purpose/necessity etc for Pentecost will be and can be found in what Jesus said at Jn.14:26 wincam
: wincam Wed Sep 07, 2016 - 09:01:04
: Charlie24 Wed Sep 07, 2016 - 08:32:51
: wincam Wed Sep 07, 2016 - 08:30:25
silly billy - these quotes are only possible because of and from the Bible - wincam
wincam, I think you have crossed over to another dimension, one that I can't interpret.
the purpose/necessity etc for Pentecost will be and can be found in what Jesus said at Jn.14:26 wincam
That's true! But how and when did He send the Comforter for this to happen?
it started at Pentecost - He came to do what He was sent to do and did it excellently - we now have the Church and the Bible etc - wincam
: wincam Wed Sep 07, 2016 - 10:16:48
it started at Pentecost - He came to do what He was sent to do and did it excellently - we now have the Church and the Bible etc - wincam
Correction, we *are* the Church and we have the Bible and we also have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
this is blasphemy imho - attributing the present rotten fruits to Him - as regards indwelt by the HS would you just care to take another closer look - start with google[The good Test] and before that a quick check at what you mean by indwelt by the HS = hot temper/blazing anger/fiery feelings/boiling jealousy/burning hatred etc - wincam
: wincam Wed Sep 07, 2016 - 10:43:39
this is blasphemy imho - attributing the present rotten fruits to Him - as regards indwelt by the HS would you just care to take another closer look - start with google[The good Test] and before that a quick check at what you mean by indwelt by the HS = hot temper/blazing anger/fiery feelings/boiling jealousy/burning hatred etc - wincam
John 14:7 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.
1 Corinthians 6: 19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God?
1 John 4: 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
Romans 8: 15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, "Abba! Father!" 16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
Just a few "proofs" of what you call blasphemy.
The Holy Spirit within us, tempers us, calls to us, convicts and redirects us when our flesh cries out for us to sin in our anger, to be selfish, to act in ways that might grieve Him.
He is the only reason we are able to glorify God at all in our daily lives, Him being our very present Helper.
: wincam Wed Sep 07, 2016 - 10:43:39
this is blasphemy imho - attributing the present rotten fruits to Him - as regards indwelt by the HS would you just care to take another closer look - start with google[The good Test] and before that a quick check at what you mean by indwelt by the HS = hot temper/blazing anger/fiery feelings/boiling jealousy/burning hatred etc - wincam
Those who are indwelled with the HS don't need to make a quick check online with a good test.
We know what we have by the promise of God.
oh yeah - it seems Protestants really have more saints than Catholics - in fact self appointed all saints - wincam
: wincam Wed Sep 07, 2016 - 11:05:31
oh yeah - it seems Protestants really have more saints than Catholics - in fact self appointed all saints all going to hell - wincam
Ummm...did you just say that protestants are going to hell?
Maybe you should give yourself a time out and take a quick nap. You seem to be up past your bed time.
of course Protestants are going to hell for according to Jesus and rightly it seems that is the penalty for blasphemy against the HS and the sin is unforgiveable because no Protestant will admit and repent the blasphemy - so who ledb you astray and howb many have you led astray to hell - time for you to give up you nap and wake up it well past your bed time and sleepy lullabies - wincam
: wincam Thu Sep 08, 2016 - 15:01:39
of course Protestants are going to hell for according to Jesus and rightly it seems that is the penalty for blasphemy against the HS and the sin is unforgiveable because no Protestant will admit and repent the blasphemy - so who ledb you astray and howb many have you led astray to hell - time for you to give up you nap and wake up it well past your bed time and sleepy lullabies - wincam
The Catholic church is living under the law where there is no salvation. Making the membership of the church a necessity for salvation is mans law. Salvation is by grace through faith.
When you point a finger, four are pointing back at you!
Thousands are seeing this to the praise and glory of God. They are leaving the Catholic church in droves. I hope you will also heed the call!
Charlie24
Do you not believe that there are many Catholics who are saved? Though under a legal system, the individual can still believe. And is not faith all that is required?
Stranger
: Stranger Thu Sep 08, 2016 - 16:02:03
Charlie24
Do you not believe that there are many Catholics who are saved? Though under a legal system, the individual can still believe. And is not faith all that is required?
Stranger
You can't be saved mixing law, any kind of law, law of Moses or law made by man, with grace.
The grace of God is a free gift and comes only from God. If you add to that, and I mean anything, that grace is made of none effect.
The Catholics who come this knowledge are saved immediately, but they must separate themselves from that law, whatever that law may be that voids grace.
That's what's happening with many former Catholics, they are coming to the knowledge of the truth and getting out.
Charlie 24
The Israelites under the Law, were saved. They were not saved because of the Law, but because of faith. What I am saying is there are many, many, Catholics who are believers in Christ and saved. But they are under a system heavily influenced by law.
Stranger
of course Protestants are going to hell for according to Jesus and rightly it seems that is the penalty for blasphemy against the HS and the sin is unforgiveable because no Protestant will admit and repent the blasphemy - so who ledb you astray and howb many have you led astray to hell - time for you to give up you nap and wake up it well past your bed time and sleepy lullabies - wincam
Sad.
But, I forgive your ignorance and hard heart. May God as well.
: Stranger Thu Sep 08, 2016 - 16:48:12
Charlie 24
The Israelites under the Law, were saved. They were not saved because of the Law, but because of faith. What I am saying is there are many, many, Catholics who are believers in Christ and saved. But they are under a system heavily influenced by law.
Stranger
Yes, there are those in the Catholic church saved. They learned the true meaning of grace, and they will get out when the Holy Spirit convicts them of the teaching they are under.
Charlie24
Why should they get out? They are saved by faith while they are in. They can continue in their faith and disagree with some of the Roman teachings. They don't have to leave.
Does every Church of Christ member have to leave to be saved? Of course not. But they too are under a legal system.
Stranger
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