The Throne of David and Solomon's Temple was the foreshadow of the Chair of St. Peter and the Catholic church. Succession of the Papacy is foreshadowed and begins with God's contract with Abram. Infallibility is introduced at the Sanctification of Solomon's Temple. The keys and the power to bind and loose, is articulated with Eliacim. Please read carefully and thoughtfully.
Isaias 9:6-7 For a CHILD IS BORN to us, and a son is given to us, and the government is upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called, Wonderful, Counsellor, God the Mighty, the Father of the world to come, the Prince of Peace. [7] His empire shall be multiplied, and there shall be no end of peace: he shall sit upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom;
Luke 1:31-32 Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus. [32] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the most High; and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father;
3 kings 9:3, 5 And the Lord said to him: I have heard thy prayer and thy supplication, which thou hast made before me: I have sanctified this house, which thou hast built, to put my name there for ever, and my eyes and my heart shall be there always. ... I will establish the throne of thy kingdom over Israel for ever, as I promised David thy father, saying: There shall not fail a man of thy race upon the throne of Israel.
Luke 22:31-32 And the Lord said: Simon, Simon, behold Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: [32] But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not:
Protestants always say that there is no other foundation, other than Jesus Christ, and this is true.
1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation no man can lay, but that which is laid; which is Christ Jesus.
But Jesus gives His authority to His ambassador and His hierarchy on Earth i.e. St. Peter and his successors and the bishops of the Catholic church.
John 21:15-17 When therefore they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter: Simon son of John, lovest thou me more than these? He saith to him: Yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He saith to him: Feed my lambs. He saith to him again: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? He saith to him: Yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He saith to him: Feed my lambs. He said to him the third time: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved, because he had said to him the third time: Lovest thou me? And he said to him: Lord, thou knowest all things: thou knowest that I love thee. He said to him: Feed my sheep.
Apocalypse 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them, the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Succession is introduced with Abram. God establishes a contract with Abram. God signifies this contract by changing the name of Abram, to Abraham, signifying a new role, a new character, as leader and father of God's people. God said that Kings shall come out of thee. God also calls Abraham a rock.
Genesis 17:1-7 And after he began to be ninety and nine years old, the Lord appeared to him: and said unto him: I am the Almighty God: walk before me, and be perfect. And I will make my covenant between me and thee: and I will multiply thee exceedingly. Abram fell flat on his face. And God said to him: I AM, and my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. Neither shall thy name be called any more Abram: but thou shalt be called Abraham: because I have made thee a father of many nations. And I will make thee increase, exceedingly, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee. And I will establish my covenant between me and thee, and between thy seed after thee in their generations, by a perpetual covenant:
Isaias 51:1-2 Give ear to me, you that follow that which is just, and you that seek the Lord: look unto the rock whence you are hewn, and to the hole of the pit from which you are dug out. Look unto Abraham your father, and to Sara that bore you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and multiplied him.
God is consistent and is not a liar and so He does it again with Jacob. God changes the name of Jacob, to Israel and say the same things, as Abraham. God calls Jacob a rock i.e stone and a pastor.
Genesis 35:9-12 And God appeared again to Jacob, after he returned from Mesopotamia of Syria, and he blessed him, Saying: Thou shalt not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name. And he called him Israel. And said to him: I am God Almighty, increase thou and be multiplied. Nations and peoples of nations shall be from thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins. And the land which I gave to Abraham and Isaac, I will give to thee, and to thy seed after thee.
Genesis 49:24 His bow rested upon the strong, and the bands of his arms and his hands were loosed, by the hands of the mighty one of Jacob: thence he came forth a pastor, the stone of Israel.
See the consistency, the changing of the name of God's chosen leader, God calling His leader a rock. Articulating succession, "I will give to thee and to thy seed after thee".
This consistent language continues and is found in the book of Isaias, concerning the keys and the power to bind and loose.
By the way, I took these verses below from the KJV. The KJV proves the Papacy!
Isaias 22:20-22 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah: And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah. And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.
All the language, in totality, that is provided above, points right to Matthew 16:16-19. God the Father calls [selects] Peter, just like Eliacim. Jesus changes the name of Simon Bar-Jona to Peter [Kepha] and calls Peter [Kepha] a rock, just like Abraham and Israel. Jesus gives the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven to Peter and gives Peter the power to bind and loose, just like Eliacim.
Matthew 16-16-19 Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.
Apocalypse 3:7-8 And to the angel of the church of Philadelphia, write: These things saith the Holy One and the true one, he that hath the key of David; he that openeth, and no man shutteth; shutteth, and no man openeth: I know thy works. Behold, I have given before thee a door opened, which no man can shut: because thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
Please look at the solemn assembly of David and what he says, it parallels what St. Peter says in the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15. It is in regarding to God making choice of David and St. Peter.
1 Paralipomenon 28:1-2,4 And David assembled all the chief men of Israel, the princes of the tribes, ... And the king rising up, and standing said: Hear me, my brethren and my people: ... But the Lord God of Israel chose me of all the house of my father, to be king over Israel for ever:
Acts 15:6-10,12 And the apostles and ancients assembled to consider of this matter. [7] And when there had been much disputing, Peter, rising up, said to them: Men, brethren, you know, that in former days God made choice among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. [8] And God, who knoweth the hearts, gave testimony, giving unto them the Holy Ghost, as well as to us; [9] And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. [10] Now therefore, why tempt you God to put a yoke upon the necks of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? ... And all the multitude held their peace;
God is the same yesterday, today and forever.
Malachias 3:6 For I am the Lord, and I change not:
Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie, nor as the son of man, that he should be changed. Hath he said then, and will he not do? hath he spoken, and will he not fulfill?
The new is in the old concealed and the old is in the new revealed!
The Bible Proves The Papacy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KV6PXSODgE&list=PLGVSKByrYzsufIKilFHFUDlvpSYFlSuvT&index=2&t=0s
This post no needed anymore.
: Isaias Wed Feb 21, 2018 - 20:00:33Protestants always say that there is no other foundation, other than Jesus Christ, and this is true
There is Catholicism; there is Protestantism; and there
are Chrisitians in name and practice. NT Christians have
never protested any truths, but they alone are the only ones that love and defend God's truths.
Many who are called Protestants by their enemies are nothing more than NT Christians.
: Isaias Yesterday at 20:00:33The Throne of David and Solomon's Temple was the foreshadow of the Chair of St. Peter and the Catholic church.
SO DOES the chair I'm sitting in, and I have as much proof as you saying this as you do in saying what you have said.
: Isaias Wed Feb 21, 2018 - 20:00:33
The Throne of David and Solomon's Temple was the foreshadow of the Chair of St. Peter and the Catholic church.
: RB Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 04:31:39
SO DOES the chair I'm sitting in, and I have as much proof as you saying this as you do in saying what you have said.
Agreed RB. Jesus sits on the throne of David, not Peter or the Pope.
Isaias,
If you want an Old Testament parallel to the chair of Peter it is Moses seat.
The chair of Peter represents his teaching authority. When the Pope speaks ex-cathedra (from the chair) it means he is speaking authoritatively about something that is to be held by the whole Church. This goes with the keys.
To understand this we need to go back to Exodus 18:13 where Moses sat in judgement over the whole people. He sat from morning until evening and was becoming worn out. His father-in-law, Jethro, enquired about this of him. Moses answered his father-in-law, "The people come to me to consult God. Whenever they have a disagreement, they come to me to have me settle the matter between them and make known to them God's decisions and regulations." (Ex 18:15-16). Jethro said this was unwise and advised Moses to appoint people to judge lesser cases and Moses should "Enlighten them in regard to the decisions and regulations, showing them how they are to live and what they are to do." (vs 20) and Moses should just judge the more difficult cases. Thus Moses delivered God's "decisions and regulations", showing them "how they are to live and what they are to do".
The teachers of Israel continued to teach with authority "how they are to live and what they are to do". This is why Jesus said about them "The scribes and the Pharisees have taken their seat on the chair of Moses. Therefore, do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you" (Mt 23:2-3). Not that Jesus is not saying they sat in a literal chair of Moses. He is speaking figuratively.
: winsome Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 07:48:46
Agreed RB. Jesus sits on the throne of David, not Peter or the Pope.
Isaias,
If you want an Old Testament parallel to the chair of Peter it is Moses seat.
The chair of Peter represents his teaching authority. When the Pope speaks ex-cathedra (from the chair) it means he is speaking authoritatively about something that is to be held by the whole Church. This goes with the keys.
To understand this we need to go back to Exodus 18:13 where Moses sat in judgement over the whole people. He sat from morning until evening and was becoming worn out. His father-in-law, Jethro, enquired about this of him. Moses answered his father-in-law, "The people come to me to consult God. Whenever they have a disagreement, they come to me to have me settle the matter between them and make known to them God's decisions and regulations." (Ex 18:15-16). Jethro said this was unwise and advised Moses to appoint people to judge lesser cases and Moses should "Enlighten them in regard to the decisions and regulations, showing them how they are to live and what they are to do." (vs 20) and Moses should just judge the more difficult cases. Thus Moses delivered God's "decisions and regulations", showing them "how they are to live and what they are to do".
The teachers of Israel continued to teach with authority "how they are to live and what they are to do". This is why Jesus said about them "The scribes and the Pharisees have taken their seat on the chair of Moses. Therefore, do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you" (Mt 23:2-3). Not that Jesus is not saying they sat in a literal chair of Moses. He is speaking figuratively.
You are making my point and at the same time you are incredibly confused and you don't read very well concerning my posts. I cited 3 kings 9, the name of God's throne is David's Throne, the Throne of Israel, and of Juda, the Chair of Moses the chair of authority etc. Its a name, signifying, the the chair of Jesus and the chair of His ambassador on Earth, it has duality.
Matthew 23:2 Saying: The scribes and the Pharisees
have sitten on the chair of Moses.
The throne that is in heaven, that Jesus sits on i.e. the Throne of David, who holds all authority but Jesus also gives His authority to Peter, as ambassador, as a minister, for which Peter sits on God's throne on Earth, because of infallibility.
Exodus 24:13 Moses rose up,
and his minister Josue: and Moses going up into the mount of God,
Moses, was a foreshadow of Jesus Christ and Josue was his right hand man, his minister.
Dueteronomy 31:14 And the Lord said to Moses: Behold the days of thy death are nigh:
call Josue, and stand ye in the tabernacle of the testimony, that I may give him a charge. So Moses and Josue went and stood in the tabernacle of the testimony:
You can see succession above^^.
This is why the Catholic church is called Heaven on Earth and the keys that go with it.
And God chooses a man who sits and speaks, and when he speaks on faith and morals to the universal church, he is protected by the Holy Ghost.
3 Kings 9:3-5 [3] And the Lord said to him: I have heard thy prayer and thy supplication, which thou hast made before me: I have sanctified this house, which thou hast built, to put my name there for ever, and my eyes and my heart shall be there always. [4] And if thou wilt walk before me, as thy father walked, in simplicity of heart, and in uprightness: and wilt do all that I have commanded thee, and wilt keep my ordinances and my judgments, [5] I will establish the throne of thy kingdom over Israel for ever, as I promised David thy father, saying:
There shall not fail a man of thy race upon the throne of Israel.
And by the way, the true popes are priest kings, a sacerdotal monarchy.
Genesis 14:18-19 [18] But Melchisedech the
king of Salem, bringing forth bread and wine, for he was the
priest of the most high God, Blessed him, and said: Blessed be Abram by the most high God, who created heaven and earth.
Melchisedech, was a priest-king, a sacerdotal monarch.
Hebrews 5:8-10 And whereas indeed
he was the Son of God, he learned obedience by the things which he suffered: And being consummated, he became, to all that obey him, the cause of eternal salvation.
Called by God a high priest according to the order of Melchisedech.The Vatican City State, is the smallest country in the world and the head of the Vatican is a true pope. The Vatican is a sacerdotal monarchy.
Can't you see that you don't know what you are talking about??
: Isaias Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 14:57:08
You are making my point and at the same time you are incredibly confused and you don't read very well concerning my posts. I cited 3 kings 9, the name of God's throne is David's Throne, the Throne of Israel, and of Juda, the Chair of Moses the chair of authority etc. Its a name, signifying, the the chair of Jesus and the chair of His ambassador on Earth, it has duality.
Matthew 23:2 Saying: The scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses.
The throne that is in heaven, that Jesus sits on i.e. the Throne of David, who holds all authority but Jesus also gives His authority to Peter, as ambassador, as a minister, for which Peter sits on God's throne on Earth, because of infallibility.
Exodus 24:13 Moses rose up, and his minister Josue: and Moses going up into the mount of God,
Moses, was a foreshadow of Jesus Christ and Josue was his right hand man, his minister.
Dueteronomy 31:14 And the Lord said to Moses: Behold the days of thy death are nigh: call Josue, and stand ye in the tabernacle of the testimony, that I may give him a charge. So Moses and Josue went and stood in the tabernacle of the testimony:
You can see succession above^^.
This is why the Catholic church is called Heaven on Earth and the keys that go with it.
And God chooses a man who sits and speaks, and when he speaks on faith and morals to the universal church, he is protected by the Holy Ghost.
3 Kings 9:3-5 [3] And the Lord said to him: I have heard thy prayer and thy supplication, which thou hast made before me: I have sanctified this house, which thou hast built, to put my name there for ever, and my eyes and my heart shall be there always. [4] And if thou wilt walk before me, as thy father walked, in simplicity of heart, and in uprightness: and wilt do all that I have commanded thee, and wilt keep my ordinances and my judgments, [5] I will establish the throne of thy kingdom over Israel for ever, as I promised David thy father, saying: There shall not fail a man of thy race upon the throne of Israel.
And by the way, the true popes are priest kings, a sacerdotal monarchy.
Genesis 14:18-19 [18] But Melchisedech the king of Salem, bringing forth bread and wine, for he was the priest of the most high God, Blessed him, and said: Blessed be Abram by the most high God, who created heaven and earth.
Melchisedech, was a priest-king, a sacerdotal monarch.
Hebrews 5:8-10 And whereas indeed he was the Son of God, he learned obedience by the things which he suffered: And being consummated, he became, to all that obey him, the cause of eternal salvation. Called by God a high priest according to the order of Melchisedech.
The Vatican City State, is the smallest country in the world and the head of the Vatican is a true pope. The Vatican is a sacerdotal monarchy.
Can't you see that you don't know what you are talking about??
You are all assertions Isaias. There is a maxim - that which asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
You claim (without evidence) that "
God's throne is David's Throne, the Throne of Israel, and of Juda, the Chair of Moses the chair of authority etc. Its a name, signifying, the the chair of Jesus and the chair of His ambassador on Earth, it has duality."
That is rubbish.
Lol! I just gave you all the evidence but you cannot see!
Matthew 15:14 Let them alone: they are blind, and leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into the pit.
: Isaias Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 15:33:49
Lol! I just gave you all the evidence but you cannot see!
Matthew 15:14 Let them alone: they are blind, and leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into the pit.
Ah yes, the Biblical insult ploy.
Still avoiding proper answers Isaias
: winsome Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 15:37:09
Ah yes, the Biblical insult ploy.
Still avoiding proper answers Isaias
You are like a kid who says "I know you are but what am I"! Lol!
Jesus is head of His church not the pope. The pope means nothing to most who follow Jesus Christ. He is no more infallible than you or I, and for many he has taken the place of Jesus Christ on earth. He is worshipped and given a place far above what he should have. Nowhere is a position such as his described in Gods word.
Peter wasn't the first pope, or whatever you believe, he was one of the 12 disciples(jewish) and Jesus is and always has been the HEAD of His church as the Bible says.
: chosenone Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 19:30:24
Jesus is head of His church not the pope. The pope means nothing to most who follow Jesus Christ. He is no more infallible than you or I, and for many he has taken the place of Jesus Christ on earth. He is worshipped and given a place far above what he should have. Nowhere is a position such as his described in Gods word.
Peter wasn't the first pope, or whatever you believe, he was one of the 12 disciples(jewish) and Jesus is and always has been the HEAD of His church as the Bible says.
There is something that you have to understand, your theology is only 500 years old, it did not exist before Martin Luther, the apostate Catholic priest, who revolted from God.
: Isaias Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 19:56:02
There is something that you have to understand, your theology is only 500 years old, it did not exist before Martin Luther, the apostate Catholic priest, who revolted from God.
That means absolutely nothing, for thousands of years people thought the earth was flat. You've just been wrong longer.
: Isaias Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 19:56:02
There is something that you have to understand, your theology is only 500 years old, it did not exist before Martin Luther, the apostate Catholic priest, who revolted from God.
My Lord came 2000 years ago, and its He who I follow. I thank God for Martin Luther who set us free from bondage.
I thank God for His word, especially because it disproves all of your beliefs.
: Alan Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 20:05:20
That means absolutely nothing, for thousands of years people thought the earth was flat. You've just been wrong longer.
No, you are not being honest. Martin Luther an apostate Catholic priest, at the age of 33, a false Christ, on Oct. 31, 1517, Halloween, an evil day, the day before All Saints Day, posted his personal ideas on the door of Castle church in Wittenburg. You guys just celebrated the 500th anniversary of his personal ideas.
You are posting all sorts of ideas here but not one has been supported by the bible. We have posted verses that contradict you beliefs several times.
: chosenone Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 20:19:02
My Lord came 2000 years ago, and its He who I follow. I thank God for Martin Luther who set us free from bondage.
I thank God for His word, especially because it disproves all of your beliefs.
No, you follow Martin Luther i.e. faith alone. Jesus says faith without works is dead.
James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man,
that faith without works is dead?
: winsome Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 15:26:11
You are all assertions Isaias. There is a maxim - that which asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
You claim (without evidence) that "God's throne is David's Throne, the Throne of Israel, and of Juda, the Chair of Moses the chair of authority etc. Its a name, signifying, the the chair of Jesus and the chair of His ambassador on Earth, it has duality."
That is rubbish.
You deny that the Vatican-the Holy See, is not a sacerdotal Monarchy?
Excerpt from article.
"The Holy See is a monarchical-sacerdotal state, which is to say that it operates as a monarchy in which the Pope is the "king" (monarchical), with senior members of the church hierarchy, appointed by the Pope, as the governing body (sacerdotal)."
Sacerdotal. relating to priests or the priesthood; priestly.
Read more: http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/economies/Europe/Vatican-City-POLITICS-GOVERNMENT-AND-TAXATION.html#ixzz57tZ9FSB4
: Isaias Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 20:24:49
No, you are not being honest. Martin Luther an apostate Catholic priest, at the age of 33, a false Christ, on Oct. 31, 1517, Halloween, an evil day, the day before All Saints Day, posted his personal ideas on the door of Castle church in Wittenburg. You guys just celebrated the 500th anniversary of his personal ideas.
Who is this Martin Luther guy you keep mentioning? Is he in the Bible? Chapter/vs?
: Alan Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 23:21:59
Who is this Martin Luther guy you keep mentioning? Is he in the Bible? Chapter/vs?
King James Bible is Martin Luther's creation. The faith alone book. Martin Luther added the word "alone" to Romans 3:28 and removed seven books from the bible. But you knew that already. You are just being coy.
: Isaias Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 23:45:17
King James Bible is Martin Luther's creation. The faith alone book. Martin Luther added the word "alone" to Romans 3:28 and removed seven books from the bible. But you knew that already. You are just being coy.
What are you talking about?
KJV Romans 3:28
"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."Where do you see the word "alone" added?
: Isaias Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 20:33:19
No, you follow Martin Luther i.e. faith alone. Jesus says faith without works is dead.
James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
#
I follow Jesus Christ and HIM alone.
: chosenone Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 20:19:02My Lord came 2000 years ago, and its He who I follow. I thank God for Martin Luther who set us free from bondage. I thank God for His word, especially because it disproves all of your beliefs.
Amen Judy~Martin Luther was truly an apostle born out of due times. He had his errors as we all do, yet no man, again NO MAN since Paul fought the apostate church as much as he did, even with his dirty bed sheets that the good man brought WITH HIM from Catholicism/EOC~when anyone sleeps with a whore they inevitable when leave her bring some of her whorish ways with them, we all have from when we first started out as a newborn babe in Jesus Christ.
: Isaias Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 23:45:17King James Bible is Martin Luther's creation.
Wrong~he was the vessel that brought Germany's their bible ONCE the printing press was invented~ at which time the WOLRD begin to get the scriptures in their own tongue that the RCC/EOC
kept from them for years and kept them in the dark by reading to them Latin versions etc. convincing man that the scriptures were for the priest ONLY not for the laity. Thank God for the printing press and now for the Internet.....the RCC and EOC cannot keep us in darkness any longer, or keep us from fighting back. We are here to stay until the end....deal with it.
: Isaias Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 19:56:02There is something that you have to understand, your theology is only 500 years old, it did not exist before Martin Luther, the apostate Catholic priest, who revolted from God.
You do not even know history much less the word of God.
Martin Luther came from my homeland where my fathers lived in Germany~but LONG before ML there was Augustine whom Martin Luther and John Calvin learned from. One thousand plus years before both of them. Before Augustine, there were others that linked the church together and to Jesus Christ.
Besides all this, it matters little WHO thinks that they came from Jesus Christ, the question is this....
"Does my teaching link me to the scriptures BOTH OT and NT, if not, then one must be honest and confess that he/she needs to change to what God's word teaches, not what I believe or what I have been taught by the church I think is God's truth/church."We MUST have the "Berean spirit" of Acts 17:11 and search the scriptures which are alone our rule of faith both doctrine and practical living out our faith in the God of the
holy scriptures. Man's commandments and traditions are condemned by Jesus Christ~
Matthew 15; and Mark 7. But, what does not mean to a deceived apostate? Scriptures are the very reason why the mighty Luther left the
mother of whores.
: IsaiasThere is something that you have to understand, your theology is only 500 years old, it did not exist before Martin Luther, the apostate Catholic priest, who revolted from God.
That is their (RCC/EOC) "catch 22" that they use to escape from dealing
with the scriptures and proving their teachings FROM THERE~so they use this "catch 22" over and over again trying
to convince themselves first and foremost that they are part of a group that was way before the Reformation and then they want to try to link all people outside of the RCC/EOC of starting at the time of the Reformation. Again, it ALL about WHOSE doctrine can link them to Jesus Christ for whoever that is, those are the
very ones that are of Christ and believer's in the true grace of God, members of HIS BODY/CHURCH of the Living God.
That people are trapped in this faith makes me so sad:-(
: RB Fri Feb 23, 2018 - 03:30:37
Besides all this, it matters little WHO thinks that they came from Jesus Christ, the question is this...."Does my teaching link me to the scriptures BOTH OT and NT, if not, then one must be honest and confess that he/she needs to change to what God's word teaches, not what I believe or what I have been taught by the church I think is God's truth/church."
We MUST have the "Berean spirit" of Acts 17:11 and search the scriptures which are alone our rule of faith both doctrine and practical living out our faith in the God of the holy scriptures. Man's commandments and traditions are condemned by Jesus Christ~Matthew 15; and Mark 7. But, what does not mean to a deceived apostate? Scriptures are the very reason why the mighty Luther left the mother of whores. That is their (RCC/EOC) "catch 22" that they use to escape from dealing with the scriptures and proving their teachings FROM THERE~so they use this "catch 22" over and over again trying to convince themselves first and foremost that they are part of a group that was way before the Reformation and then they want to try to link all people outside of the RCC/EOC of starting at the time of the Reformation. Again, it ALL about WHOSE doctrine can link them to Jesus Christ for whoever that is, those are the very ones that are of Christ and believer's in the true grace of God, members of HIS BODY/CHURCH of the Living God.
Scripture alone is a tradition of man.
: winsome Fri Feb 23, 2018 - 05:49:19
Scripture alone is a tradition of man.
By Scripture alone, are you referring to the teaching of Sola Scriptura?
: 4WD Fri Feb 23, 2018 - 05:56:16
By Scripture alone, are you referring to the teaching of Sola Scriptura?
I refer particularly to RB's statement
We MUST have the "Berean spirit" of Acts 17:11 and search the scriptures which are alone our rule of faith
: winsome Fri Feb 23, 2018 - 06:00:42
I refer particularly to RB's statement
We MUST have the "Berean spirit" of Acts 17:11 and search the scriptures which are alone our rule of faith
That is the essence of Sola Scriptura. I believe RB is correct. The Scriptures are alone our rule of faith.
: 4WD Fri Feb 23, 2018 - 06:07:31
That is the essence of Sola Scriptura. I believe RB is correct. The Scriptures are alone our rule of faith.
And I believe you are wrong.
However I've got too many balls in the air at the moment so I'm dropping this one.
I don't blame you for that. ::smile::
: Isaias Thu Feb 22, 2018 - 20:44:23
You deny that the Vatican-the Holy See, is not a sacerdotal Monarchy?
Excerpt from article.
"The Holy See is a monarchical-sacerdotal state, which is to say that it operates as a monarchy in which the Pope is the "king" (monarchical), with senior members of the church hierarchy, appointed by the Pope, as the governing body (sacerdotal)."
Sacerdotal. relating to priests or the priesthood; priestly.
Read more: http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/economies/Europe/Vatican-City-POLITICS-GOVERNMENT-AND-TAXATION.html#ixzz57tZ9FSB4 (http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/economies/Europe/Vatican-City-POLITICS-GOVERNMENT-AND-TAXATION.html#ixzz57tZ9FSB4)
So you rely on secular sources.
Is King one of the pope's titles? The answer is NO.
Moreover Vatican City as a state only came into being in 1929.
Isaias, lets sort this kingship out
In 1Kings 9:3-8 God said to Solomon
The LORD said to him: "I have heard the prayer of petition which you offered in my presence. I have consecrated this temple which you have built; I confer my name upon it forever, and my eyes and my heart shall be there always. As for you, if you live in my presence as your father David lived, sincerely and uprightly, doing just as I have commanded you, keeping my statutes and decrees, I will establish your throne of sovereignty over Israel forever, as I promised your father David when I said, 'You shall always have someone from your line on the throne of Israel.' But if you and your descendants ever withdraw from me, fail to keep the commandments and statutes which I set before you, and proceed to venerate and worship strange gods, I will cut off Israel from the land I gave them and repudiate the temple I have consecrated to my honour. Israel shall become a proverb and a byword among all nations, and this temple shall become a heap of ruins.
This happened when the Babylonians conquered Jerusalem. They took away the last King of Judah and he died in exile. They destroyed the Temple.
However God had also promised that someone from David's line would sit on David's throne for ever. The promise was fulfilled in Jesus
And the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there will be no end." (Lk 1:30-33)
The Pope does not come from the line of David. Jesus did
The Pope does not sit on David's throne. Jesus does.
The promises were made and kept. There is no application to anyone else.
How to become Pope... love this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF8I_r9XT7A
: winsome Fri Feb 23, 2018 - 10:17:40
Isaias, lets sort this kingship out
In 1Kings 9:3-8 God said to Solomon
The LORD said to him: "I have heard the prayer of petition which you offered in my presence. I have consecrated this temple which you have built; I confer my name upon it forever, and my eyes and my heart shall be there always. As for you, if you live in my presence as your father David lived, sincerely and uprightly, doing just as I have commanded you, keeping my statutes and decrees, I will establish your throne of sovereignty over Israel forever, as I promised your father David when I said, 'You shall always have someone from your line on the throne of Israel.' But if you and your descendants ever withdraw from me, fail to keep the commandments and statutes which I set before you, and proceed to venerate and worship strange gods, I will cut off Israel from the land I gave them and repudiate the temple I have consecrated to my honour. Israel shall become a proverb and a byword among all nations, and this temple shall become a heap of ruins.
This happened when the Babylonians conquered Jerusalem. They took away the last King of Judah and he died in exile. They destroyed the Temple.
However God had also promised that someone from David's line would sit on David's throne for ever. The promise was fulfilled in Jesus
And the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there will be no end." (Lk 1:30-33)
The Pope does not come from the line of David. Jesus did. The Pope does not sit on David's throne. Jesus does.
The promises were made and kept. There is no application to anyone else.
Unfortunately, you are a walking contradiction. You jump from one camp to another. Protestant teachings and 'some' Catholic teachings. You even have said to me that you don't believe that the protestant position is heretical while concurrently there is zero unity between protestants and Catholics.
Galatians 1:7-9 Which is not another, only there are some that trouble you,
and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven,
preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema.
You are in complete opposition with Pope Gregory XVI.
Pope Gregory XVI 1844 Inter PraecipuasVenerable Brothers, Greetings and Apostolic Benediction.
Among the special schemes with which non-Catholics plot against the adherents of Catholic truth to turn their minds away from the faith, the biblical societies are prominent.
They were first established in England and have spread far and wide so that We now see them as an army on the march, conspiring to publish in great numbers copies of the books of divine Scripture. These are translated into all kinds of vernacular languages
for dissemination without discrimination among both Christians and infidels.Then the biblical societies invite everyone to read them unguided. Therefore it is just as Jerome complained in his day:[l]
they make the art of understanding the Scriptures without a teacher"common to babbling old women and crazy oldmen and verbose sophists," and to anyone who can read, no matter what his status. Indeed, what is even more absurd and almost unheard of, they do not exclude the common people of the infidels from sharing this kind of a knowledge.
2. But you know the aim of these societies.
In his sacred writings, Peter, after praising the letters of Paul, warns that in these epistles "certain things are difficult to understand, which the unlearned and the unstable distort just as they do the rest of the Scriptures, which also leads to their destruction." He adds at once, "Since you know this beforehand, be on your guard lest, carried away by the error of the foolish, you fall away from your own steadfastness."[2]
Hence it is clear to you that even from the first ages of Christianity this was a skill appropriate for heretics. Having repudiated the given word of God and rejected the authority of the Catholic Church, they either interpolate "by artifice" into the Scriptures or pervert "its meaning through interpretation."[3]Nor finally are you ignorant of the diligence and knowledge required to faithfully translate into another language the words of the Lord. In the many translations from the biblical societies, serious errors are easily
inserted by the great number of translators, either through ignorance or deception. These errors, because of the very number and variety of translations, are long hidden
and hence lead the faithful astray. It is of little concern to these societies if men reading their vernacular Bibles
fall into error. They are concerned primarily that the reader becomes accustomed to judging for himself the meaning of the books of Scripture, to scorning divine tradition preserved by the Catholic Church in the teaching of the Fathers, and to repudiating the very authority of the Church.3.
For this end the same biblical societies never cease to slander the Church and this Chair of Peter as if We have tried to keep the knowledge of sacred Scripture from the faithful. ...
It seems that you refuse to see the distinction between the
heaven in heaven and the
heaven on Earth. God chooses His ambassador,
as leader, to sit on His throne in the heaven on Earth, just like Abraham, Isaac, Jacob,
Joseph, Moses, Samuel, David, Eliacim ... Peter ... > . Its God's Throne because He promises infallibility from that throne. But He also promises to punish for disobedience by casting away His people and church.
In fact, we can even see this foreshadow with Joseph, son of Jacob, being given authority over the whole of Egypt by the Pharaoh.
Genesis 41:41-43
And again Pharao said to Joseph: Behold, I have appointed thee over the whole land of Egypt. [42]
And he took his ring from his own hand, and gave it into his hand: and he put upon him a robe of silk, and put a chain of gold about his neck. [43]
And he made him go up into his second chariot, the crier proclaiming that all should bow their knee before him, and that they should know he was made governor over the whole land of Egypt.You are showing yourself to be obstinate and so I can not help you. You choose your own understanding just like Pope Gregory XVI stated instead of the Catholic teachings of the Catholic church.
Throne.
the chair of state of a sovereign or high dignitary (such as a bishop)
: Isaias Fri Feb 23, 2018 - 14:09:55
Unfortunately, you are a walking contradiction. You jump from one camp to another. Protestant teachings and 'some' Catholic teachings. You even have said to me that you don't believe that the protestant position is heretical while concurrently there is zero unity between protestants and Catholics.
Galatians 1:7-9 Which is not another, only there are some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema.
You are in complete opposition with Pope Gregory XVI.
Pope Gregory XVI 1844 Inter Praecipuas
Venerable Brothers, Greetings and Apostolic Benediction.
Among the special schemes with which non-Catholics plot against the adherents of Catholic truth to turn their minds away from the faith, the biblical societies are prominent. They were first established in England and have spread far and wide so that We now see them as an army on the march, conspiring to publish in great numbers copies of the books of divine Scripture. These are translated into all kinds of vernacular languages for dissemination without discrimination among both Christians and infidels.Then the biblical societies invite everyone to read them unguided. Therefore it is just as Jerome complained in his day:[l] they make the art of understanding the Scriptures without a teacher"common to babbling old women and crazy oldmen and verbose sophists," and to anyone who can read, no matter what his status. Indeed, what is even more absurd and almost unheard of, they do not exclude the common people of the infidels from sharing this kind of a knowledge.
2. But you know the aim of these societies. In his sacred writings, Peter, after praising the letters of Paul, warns that in these epistles "certain things are difficult to understand, which the unlearned and the unstable distort just as they do the rest of the Scriptures, which also leads to their destruction." He adds at once, "Since you know this beforehand, be on your guard lest, carried away by the error of the foolish, you fall away from your own steadfastness."[2] Hence it is clear to you that even from the first ages of Christianity this was a skill appropriate for heretics. Having repudiated the given word of God and rejected the authority of the Catholic Church, they either interpolate "by artifice" into the Scriptures or pervert "its meaning through interpretation."[3]Nor finally are you ignorant of the diligence and knowledge required to faithfully translate into another language the words of the Lord. In the many translations from the biblical societies, serious errors are easily inserted by the great number of translators, either through ignorance or deception. These errors, because of the very number and variety of translations, are long hidden and hence lead the faithful astray. It is of little concern to these societies if men reading their vernacular Bibles fall into error. They are concerned primarily that the reader becomes accustomed to judging for himself the meaning of the books of Scripture, to scorning divine tradition preserved by the Catholic Church in the teaching of the Fathers, and to repudiating the very authority of the Church.
3. For this end the same biblical societies never cease to slander the Church and this Chair of Peter as if We have tried to keep the knowledge of sacred Scripture from the faithful. ...
It seems that you refuse to see the distinction between the heaven in heaven and the heaven on Earth. God chooses His ambassador, as leader, to sit on His throne in the heaven on Earth, just like Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Samuel, David, Eliacim ... Peter ... > . Its God's Throne because He promises infallibility from that throne. But He also promises to punish for disobedience by casting away His people and church.
In fact, we can even see this foreshadow with Joseph, son of Jacob, being given authority over the whole of Egypt by the Pharaoh.
Genesis 41:41-43 And again Pharao said to Joseph: Behold, I have appointed thee over the whole land of Egypt. [42] And he took his ring from his own hand, and gave it into his hand: and he put upon him a robe of silk, and put a chain of gold about his neck. [43] And he made him go up into his second chariot, the crier proclaiming that all should bow their knee before him, and that they should know he was made governor over the whole land of Egypt.
You are showing yourself to be obstinate and so I can not help you. You choose your own understanding just like Pope Gregory XVI stated instead of the Catholic teachings of the Catholic church.
Throne. the chair of state of a sovereign or high dignitary (such as a bishop)
As usual Isaias, you make no attempt to refute what I actually say.
You just go off somewhere else. And you go off in the typical Protestant way by quoting Gal 1:7-9
You argument is basically.
You pervert the gospel.
Paul warned us that people would pervert the gospel (Gal 1:7-9)
There - proved from scripture. ::doh::
One more time. Try answering my actual argument
In 1Kings 9:3-8 God said to Solomon
The LORD said to him: "I have heard the prayer of petition which you offered in my presence. I have consecrated this temple which you have built; I confer my name upon it forever, and my eyes and my heart shall be there always. As for you, if you live in my presence as your father David lived, sincerely and uprightly, doing just as I have commanded you, keeping my statutes and decrees, I will establish your throne of sovereignty over Israel forever, as I promised your father David when I said, 'You shall always have someone from your line on the throne of Israel.' But if you and your descendants ever withdraw from me, fail to keep the commandments and statutes which I set before you, and proceed to venerate and worship strange gods, I will cut off Israel from the land I gave them and repudiate the temple I have consecrated to my honour. Israel shall become a proverb and a byword among all nations, and this temple shall become a heap of ruins.
This happened when the Babylonians conquered Jerusalem. They took away the last King of Judah and he died in exile. They destroyed the Temple.
However God had also promised that someone from David's line would sit on David's throne for ever. The promise was fulfilled in Jesus
And the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there will be no end." (Lk 1:30-33)
The Pope does not come from the line of David. Jesus did
The Pope does not sit on David's throne. Jesus does.
The promises were made and kept. There is no application to anyone else.
: winsome Fri Feb 23, 2018 - 14:21:51
As usual Isaias, you make no attempt to refute what I actually say.
You just go off somewhere else. And you go off in the typical Protestant way by quoting Gal 1:7-9
You argument is basically.
You pervert the gospel.
Paul warned us that people would pervert the gospel (Gal 1:7-9)
There - proved from scripture. ::doh::
One more time. Try answering my actual argument
In 1Kings 9:3-8 God said to Solomon
The LORD said to him: "I have heard the prayer of petition which you offered in my presence. I have consecrated this temple which you have built; I confer my name upon it forever, and my eyes and my heart shall be there always. As for you, if you live in my presence as your father David lived, sincerely and uprightly, doing just as I have commanded you, keeping my statutes and decrees, I will establish your throne of sovereignty over Israel forever, as I promised your father David when I said, 'You shall always have someone from your line on the throne of Israel.' But if you and your descendants ever withdraw from me, fail to keep the commandments and statutes which I set before you, and proceed to venerate and worship strange gods, I will cut off Israel from the land I gave them and repudiate the temple I have consecrated to my honour. Israel shall become a proverb and a byword among all nations, and this temple shall become a heap of ruins.
This happened when the Babylonians conquered Jerusalem. They took away the last King of Judah and he died in exile. They destroyed the Temple.
However God had also promised that someone from David's line would sit on David's throne for ever. The promise was fulfilled in Jesus
And the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there will be no end." (Lk 1:30-33)
The Pope does not come from the line of David. Jesus did
The Pope does not sit on David's throne. Jesus does.
The promises were made and kept. There is no application to anyone else.
Oh! so the temple was not rebuilt and there were no leaders over the rebuilt temple and that the rebuilt temple in the book of Machabees was not profaned and defiled by King Antiochus, with false altars over and against the true altar of God, just like in the days of the past.
Ecclesiasticus 49:15 "
And let Nehemias be a long time remembered, who raised up for us our walls that were cast down, and set up the gates and the bars,
who rebuilt our houses."
Matthew 1:11-16 [11]
And Josias begot Jechonias and his brethren in the transmigration of Babylon. [12] And after the transmigration of Babylon, Jechonias begot Salathiel.
And Salathiel begot Zorobabel. [13] And Zorobabel begot Abiud. And Abiud begot Eliacim. And Eliacim begot Azor. [14] And Azor begot
Sadoc. And Sadoc begot Achim. And Achim begot Eliud. [15] And Eliud begot
Eleazar. And Eleazar begot
Mathan. And Mathan begot Jacob. And Jacob begot Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
Edras 2:1-2 [1] Now these are the children of the province, that went out of the captivity, which Nabuchodonosor king of Babylon had carried away to Babylon, and who returned to Jerusalem and Juda, every man to his city. [2] Who came with
Zorobabel, Josue,
Nehemia, Saraia, Rahelaia, Mardochai, Belsan, Mesphar, Beguai, Rehum, Baana.
Wow! At this point, I choose not to dance with someone like you.
: Isaias Fri Feb 23, 2018 - 16:04:22Wow! At this point, I choose not to dance with someone like you.
That is probably a wise move -- at least until you take a few dance lessons. ::smile::
: 4WD Fri Feb 23, 2018 - 16:35:54
That is probably a wise move -- at least until you take a few dance lessons. ::smile::
Ah! but not from protestants though. Just a little levity. ::smile::
Yes, the bible does prove the papacy. It proves that she is BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
: Amo Fri Feb 23, 2018 - 19:01:10
Yes, the bible does prove the papacy. It proves that she is BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
No, you are still confused. In the end times, which is now, Rome becomes pagan again. St. Peter gives a clue to this, for the end times, its like a secret prophecy.
1 Peter 5:13
The church that is in Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you: and so doth my son Mark.
The buildings are taken over by faithless men of the vatican II sect, in Rome, St. Peter's Basilica. St. Jude and St. John allude to this.
Jude 1:4
For certain men are secretly entered in, (who were written of long ago unto this judgment,) ungodly men,
turning the grace of our Lord God into riotousness, and denying the only sovereign Ruler, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
John 10:1-2,10 Amen, amen I say to you:
He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up another way, the same is a thief and a robber. [2]
But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. ... The thief cometh not, but for to steal,
and to kill, and to destroy.
: Isaias Fri Feb 23, 2018 - 19:47:34
No, you are still confused. In the end times, which is now, Rome becomes pagan again. St. Peter gives a clue to this, for the end times, its like a secret prophecy.
1 Peter 5:13 The church that is in Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you: and so doth my son Mark.
The buildings are taken over by faithless men of the vatican II sect, in Rome, St. Peter's Basilica. St. Jude and St. John allude to this.
Jude 1:4 For certain men are secretly entered in, (who were written of long ago unto this judgment,) ungodly men, turning the grace of our Lord God into riotousness, and denying the only sovereign Ruler, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
John 10:1-2,10 Amen, amen I say to you: He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up another way, the same is a thief and a robber. [2] But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. ... The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy.
No, you are confused. Once Rome amalgamated apostate "Christianity" and paganism she never departed from the same. The Protestant Reformation was about her rejection of all attempts to reform her paganized doctrines and practices and bring her back to bible teaching. Today she is simply expanding her relations with all the kings and religions of the earth to regain the power she lost in the past on a global scale. Her deadly wound is being healed and all the world will once again wonder after the beast which is ridden by the Harlot of the book of Revelation, which is the Church of Rome.
Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. 3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness:
and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth. 6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
: Isaias Fri Feb 23, 2018 - 16:04:22
Oh! so the temple was not rebuilt and there were no leaders over the rebuilt temple and that the rebuilt temple in the book of Machabees was not profaned and defiled by King Antiochus, with false altars over and against the true altar of God, just like in the days of the past.
Ecclesiasticus 49:15 "And let Nehemias be a long time remembered, who raised up for us our walls that were cast down, and set up the gates and the bars, who rebuilt our houses."
Matthew 1:11-16 [11] And Josias begot Jechonias and his brethren in the transmigration of Babylon. [12] And after the transmigration of Babylon, Jechonias begot Salathiel. And Salathiel begot Zorobabel. [13] And Zorobabel begot Abiud. And Abiud begot Eliacim. And Eliacim begot Azor. [14] And Azor begot Sadoc. And Sadoc begot Achim. And Achim begot Eliud. [15] And Eliud begot Eleazar. And Eleazar begot Mathan. And Mathan begot Jacob. And Jacob begot Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
Edras 2:1-2 [1] Now these are the children of the province, that went out of the captivity, which Nabuchodonosor king of Babylon had carried away to Babylon, and who returned to Jerusalem and Juda, every man to his city. [2] Who came with Zorobabel, Josue, Nehemia, Saraia, Rahelaia, Mardochai, Belsan, Mesphar, Beguai, Rehum, Baana.
Wow! At this point, I choose not to dance with someone like you.
And once again the slippery Isaias avoids answering the points I made.
The Pope does not come from the line of David. Jesus did
The Pope does not sit on David's throne. Jesus does.
The promises were made and kept. There is no application to anyone else.
: winsome Sat Feb 24, 2018 - 09:05:05
And once again the slippery Isaias avoids answering the points I made.
The Pope does not come from the line of David. Jesus did
The Pope does not sit on David's throne. Jesus does.
The promises were made and kept. There is no application to anyone else.
You don't have any points!!Here are the fruits of your counterfeit catholic church!
Chileans lose faith as Vatican scrambles to contain sex abuse scandal February 23, 2018
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/chileans-lose-faith-vatican-scrambles-contain-sex-abuse-040738050.html
Jude 1:4,7,8
For certain men are secretly entered in, (who were written of long ago unto this judgment,)
ungodly men, ... As Sodom and Gomorrha,... having given themselves to fornication, and going after other flesh,... In like manner these men also defile the flesh, ...
Prophecy of Osee [Hosea] 4:14 I will not visit upon your daughters when they shall commit fornication, and upon your spouses when they shall commit adultery: because themselves conversed with harlots,
and offered sacrifice with the effeminate, and the people that doth not understand shall be beaten.
Prophecy of Isaias 3:8-9
For Jerusalem is ruined, and Juda is fallen: because their tongue, and their devices are against the Lord, to provoke the eyes of his majesty. The shew of their countenance hath answered them:
and they have proclaimed abroad their sin as Sodom, and they have not hid it: woe to their souls, for evils are rendered to them.
http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/23_Seminaries.pdf
http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/22_SScandal.pdf
: Isaias Sat Feb 24, 2018 - 18:14:46
You don't have any points!!
Here are the fruits of your counterfeit catholic church!
Chileans lose faith as Vatican scrambles to contain sex abuse scandal February 23, 2018
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/chileans-lose-faith-vatican-scrambles-contain-sex-abuse-040738050.html (https://ca.news.yahoo.com/chileans-lose-faith-vatican-scrambles-contain-sex-abuse-040738050.html)
Jude 1:4,7,8 For certain men are secretly entered in, (who were written of long ago unto this judgment,) ungodly men, ... As Sodom and Gomorrha,... having given themselves to fornication, and going after other flesh,... In like manner these men also defile the flesh, ...
Prophecy of Osee [Hosea] 4:14 I will not visit upon your daughters when they shall commit fornication, and upon your spouses when they shall commit adultery: because themselves conversed with harlots, and offered sacrifice with the effeminate, and the people that doth not understand shall be beaten.
Prophecy of Isaias 3:8-9 For Jerusalem is ruined, and Juda is fallen: because their tongue, and their devices are against the Lord, to provoke the eyes of his majesty. The shew of their countenance hath answered them: and they have proclaimed abroad their sin as Sodom, and they have not hid it: woe to their souls, for evils are rendered to them.
http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/23_Seminaries.pdf (http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/23_Seminaries.pdf)
http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/22_SScandal.pdf (http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/22_SScandal.pdf)
Of course I have made points. You just can't answer them because they destroy your false claims.
So you resort to irrelevant scripture quotations.
The Pope does not come from the line of David. Jesus did
The Pope does not sit on David's throne. Jesus does.
The promises were made and kept. There is no application to anyone else.
: winsome Sun Feb 25, 2018 - 06:06:27
Of course I have made points. You just can't answer them because they destroy your false claims.
So you resort to irrelevant scripture quotations.
The Pope does not come from the line of David. Jesus did
The Pope does not sit on David's throne. Jesus does.
The promises were made and kept. There is no application to anyone else.
The Pope reigns in Rome on Peter's throne, right? Like Isaias, I am confused about this. The line of royal succession went from David to Jesus to Peter ? It is not likely that Peter was also of the bloodline of David, but maybe Jesus passed a different throne on to Peter, an earthly throne, more like David's, and then Peter passed it on ... but no, that's not the way it works. The Cardinals elect whoever sits on Peter's throne. I will admit, I am thoroughly confused.
: Norton Mon Feb 26, 2018 - 01:02:28The Pope reigns in Rome on Peter's throne, right? Like Isaias, I am confused about this. The line of royal succession went from David to Jesus to Peter ? It is not likely that Peter was also of the bloodline of David, but maybe Jesus passed a different throne on to Peter, an earthly throne, more like David's, and then Peter passed it on ... but no, that's not the way it works. The Cardinals elect whoever sits on Peter's throne. I will admit, I am thoroughly confused.
Brother you NOT confused, your reasoning has you going toward truth, NOT away from the truth. ALL are living under chains of darkness that believe and teach that Peter is the rock upon which the church is built upon.
The church is built upon the DIVINE REVELATION that Jesus said was
given TO PETER from heaven so that he KNEW Jesus Christ to be the Son of God and sent by Him
Let it be said in all boldness that all are badly deceived by their own hearts whoever believes that God's holy temple is built by
human hands, how great are they deceived who believe this lie! Selah.
: Jesus, the Son of the living GodMatthew 16:13-19"When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
The two but's are worthy of our attention and even more so the phrase~
"this rock"....THIS referring back to what Jesus had said to Peter.....
for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven
The Godhead has from the beginning of time built God's holy temple
without hands or any means thereof by
divine revelation from heaven~ And to THIS CHURCH the gates of hell cannot prevail against it. They alone have the two keys of TRUTH and to them has been given the power to lose and to blind.
So with that understanding, we who know the truth blind all who believes that the church is under the control/leadership of any man other than the written word of God and its Author, the Spirit of the living God.
: Norton Mon Feb 26, 2018 - 01:02:28
The Pope reigns in Rome on Peter's throne, right? Like Isaias, I am confused about this. The line of royal succession went from David to Jesus to Peter ? It is not likely that Peter was also of the bloodline of David, but maybe Jesus passed a different throne on to Peter, an earthly throne, more like David's, and then Peter passed it on ... but no, that's not the way it works. The Cardinals elect whoever sits on Peter's throne. I will admit, I am thoroughly confused.
I think you are confused because Isaias is confusing you.
You are right, the royal line of David went from David to Jesus.
Peter, and his successors, are the
vicars of Christ. They are the head of the Catholic Church on earth, under Christ.
They have a seat or chair (latin
sedes). Another latin term for chair is
cathedra. (from which we get Cathedral)
When a Pope gives an authoritative, infallible pronouncement it said they give it
ex-cathedra, 'from the chair'. It doesn't mean he actually sits in a literal chair but it represents their position and authority.
The Pope does not
reign, only a Monarch does that. The Pope is not a monarch although some claim that the structure has some monarchical characteristics.
Groups like the one Isaias belongs to (and there are others) claim that there is currently no valid Pope. They are known as
sedevacantists - the chair (
sedes) is vacant. As they are not in communion with the Pope (Francis), they are not members of the Catholic Church.
So the Pope is not considered a monarch and does not have a throne. I get you. I think I have heard or read where Peter's seat is referred to as a throne, but I will take your word as being accurate. Thanks.
: Norton Mon Feb 26, 2018 - 23:56:49
So the Pope is not considered a monarch and does not have a throne. I get you. I think I have heard or read where Peter's seat is referred to as a throne, but I will take your word as being accurate. Thanks.
Actually the Pope is a monarch, he is king of Vatican City which is a sovereign state.
He also has a throne, the same way the other kings and queens have a throne.
Since the Pope is elected, and the king is all powerful, the Pope is an elected absolute non-hereditary monarch.
You can find all info here: https://youtu.be/OPHRIjI3hXs
Really entertaining clip that explains it all in a few minutes.
: Norton Mon Feb 26, 2018 - 23:56:49
So the Pope is not considered a monarch and does not have a throne. I get you. I think I have heard or read where Peter's seat is referred to as a throne, but I will take your word as being accurate. Thanks.
I've looked up throne up a bit more.
According to the Collins Dictionary it says:
1. A throne is a decorative chair used by a king, queen, or emperor on important official occasions.
Under
throne in British it says:
1. the ceremonial seat occupied by a monarch, bishop, etc on occasions of state
Under
throne in American it says:
1. the chair on which a king, cardinal, etc. sits on formal or ceremonial occasions: it usually is on a dais, covered with a canopy, and highly decorated
So, it
can be used for a ceremonial seat for a bishop (and the Pope is the bishop of Rome) but that is not a normal usage.
According to the Oxford English Dictionary the derivation is:
Middle English: from Old French trone, via Latin from Greek thronos 'elevated seat'.
According to the online etymological dictionary the origin is given as
c. 1200, trone, "the seat of God or a saint in heaven;" c. 1300 as "seat occupied by a sovereign," from Old French trone (12c., Modern French trône), from Latin thronus, from Greek thronos "elevated seat, chair, throne," from suffixed form of PIE root *dher- (https://www.etymonline.com/word/*dher-?ref=etymonline_crossreference) "to hold firmly, support" (source also of Latin firmus "firm, steadfast, strong, stable," Sanskrit dharma "statute, law"). From late 14c. as a symbol of royal power. Colloquial meaning "toilet" is recorded from 1922. The classical -h- begins to appear in English from late 14c.
You probably didn't want to know all that but I found it interesting. ::smile::
: AVZ Tue Feb 27, 2018 - 03:36:53
Actually the Pope is a monarch, he is king of Vatican City which is a sovereign state.
He also has a throne, the same way the other kings and queens have a throne.
Since the Pope is elected, and the king is all powerful, the Pope is an elected absolute non-hereditary monarch.
You can find all info here: https://youtu.be/OPHRIjI3hXs
Really entertaining clip that explains it all in a few minutes.
Good video done with restraint and good taste.
: Norton Tue Feb 27, 2018 - 08:36:27
Good video done with restraint and good taste.
I have AVZ on ignore.
The video is funny but not accurate. In order to try and pretend the Pope is king they have to invent a unique new category of "non-hereditary monarch"
A sovereign state does not mean it has a king. USA is a sovereign state but it doesn't have a king.
Moreover Vatican City only became a sovereign state in 1929. So did the Pope suddenly become a king then?
The whole thing is absurd but typical of AVZ.
The official titles of the Pope are:
Papal Titles:- His Holiness The Pope;
- Bishop Of Rome And Vicar Of Jesus Christ;
- Successor Of St. Peter, Prince Of The Apostles;
- Supreme Pontiff Of The UniversalChurch;
- Patriarch Of The West;
- Servant Of The Servants Of God;
- Primate Of Italy;
- Archbishop And Metropolitan Of The RomanProvince;
- Sovereign Of Vatican CityState;
(courtesy EWTN)
here is a link to the website of the Vatican state
http://www.vaticanstate.va/content/vaticanstate/en.html (http://www.vaticanstate.va/content/vaticanstate/en.html)
Can you find where the Catholic Church says the Pope is a king?
In the Greek there is not just a distinction between the masculine and feminine, but in the meanings themselves. Rock and stone or pebble. Read it from Matthew 15 on, it is obviously saying that the truth that Jesus is Christ will be the rock that the church is built on. It is a manipulation, trying to redefine the meaning of the excerpt by saying there is no distinction in the language it was written in, to redirect the conversation away from what the passage actually says.
If Peter was Bishop of Rome from 42 AD to 67 AD according to RCC, why did Paul write the letter to the Romans? Read Romans 1:7.
If Peter was Bishop of Rome for 25 years, how could he meet Paul in Jerusalem in 42 AD, and then back in Jerusalem again in 43 AD, and in 56 AD have a dispute with Paul in Antioch about 800 miles from Rome, it appears Peter was not in Rome when RCC declare he was, Can you say that RCC is in error over the time Peter supposedly was in Rome, or has the Bible got it all mixed up?
If Peter was in Rome during those years, why when Paul was greeting 27 eminent people in Rome and greet them by name, did he not once mention Peter ~ Romans 16.
Peter is not the rock, because the 12 disciples, knowing well the OT, recognised the Rock as a description or name for God. Duet32:4,Psalms18:2,Psalm18:31
If Peter has the Power to forgive sins as the RCC declares, why did Peter not use this power to forgive Simon the Sorcerer, but told him to Repent and pray to God for forgiveness Acts 8: 18-24.
No mention is made of Peter ever being in Rome at ANY time in the 27 documents of the oldest existing record of the Christian Faith. The Apostle Paul wrote an Epistle to the church at Rome, named approximately SIXTEEN (16) people, by name, and never mentioned Peter. That was NO oversight on his part. Peter was never there! Peter's tomb was also discovered outside *Jerusalem*; there is historical documentation to verify this fact. Even if that were not the case, Paul's neglect at mentioning Peter, in Romans 16, is INEXCUSABLE, if Peter were Head of the Church. There is no evidence for the Papacy from Peter himself.
To err is human, to be infallible is divine (Romans 3:23). Peter deserted Christ in His passion, and did not assist Him in Golgotha. Peter described himself as an elder, witness and partaker, servant, and apostle (1 and 2 Peter) but never the first Pope, Prince of the apostles, or Head of the Church. Jesus Christ, not mortal and sinful man, is the only head of His Church (Ephesians 1:22-23; Colossians.1:18).
"you are petros ( a small pebble) and upon this petra ( a massive rock) I shall build My church....." Christ built His church upon Himself, upon the faith Peter had and upon our faith in Christ. Not Peter the person.
Christ asks Simon who He was and he replies "you are the missiah the Christ" and Christ responds by saying well done Simon for this truth did not to you from men but from God. You will be called (in Greek) petros (a pebble) and on this Petra (rock) I will build my church. what Christ was saying is that He is the foundation, He is the corner stone to the Church.
He is also the stone that the builders reject as useless that turned out to be the most important of all and nobody can lay any other.
"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid,which is Jesus Christ."1 Corinthians 3:11
"Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;" Ephesians 2:19-20
"Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner," 1 Peter 2:6-7,
"This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner." Acts 4:11
"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock [Jesus referring to Himself and NOT to Peter] I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Matthew 16:18
"And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ." 1 Corinthians 10:4
Jesus himself said, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me" (John 14:6). In Matt. 16:13-20, Jesus asked his disciples a very important question, "Who do you say that I am?" Jesus is asking the key question of the Bible: he is asking us to correctly identify him. This is the question that inspects the very foundation of the Christian faith. If we do not now who the real Jesus is, then we can not be saved. We can not get to the true Heaven with a false Jesus. The real Jesus of the Bible is the true foundation (rock) of the Christian faith. He is the rock of salvation. Even Peter claimed that Jesus is the rock, the cornerstone that the builders rejected (Acts 4:10 & 1 Peter 2:1-6). Paul says, "For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ... 'the rock was Christ.'"(1 Cor. 3:11 &10:4).
: KiwiChristian Tue Apr 17, 2018 - 04:37:46
If Peter was Bishop of Rome from 42 AD to 67 AD according to RCC, why did Paul write the letter to the Romans? Read Romans 1:7.
If Peter was Bishop of Rome for 25 years, how could he meet Paul in Jerusalem in 42 AD, and then back in Jerusalem again in 43 AD, and in 56 AD have a dispute with Paul in Antioch about 800 miles from Rome, it appears Peter was not in Rome when RCC declare he was, Can you say that RCC is in error over the time Peter supposedly was in Rome, or has the Bible got it all mixed up?
If Peter was in Rome during those years, why when Paul was greeting 27 eminent people in Rome and greet them by name, did he not once mention Peter ~ Romans 16.
No mention is made of Peter ever being in Rome at ANY time in the 27 documents of the oldest existing record of the Christian Faith. The Apostle Paul wrote an Epistle to the church at Rome, named approximately SIXTEEN (16) people, by name, and never mentioned Peter. That was NO oversight on his part. Peter was never there! Peter's tomb was also discovered outside *Jerusalem*; there is historical documentation to verify this fact. Even if that were not the case, Paul's neglect at mentioning Peter, in Romans 16, is INEXCUSABLE, if Peter were Head of the Church.
There is a good explanation for this but as you are not interested in explanations, only in ranting against the Catholic Church, there is no point in wasting time giving it.
Who was the first person to REFER TO HIMSELF with a papal title?
: KiwiChristian Thu Apr 19, 2018 - 04:02:14
Who was the first person to REFER TO HIMSELF with a papal title?
As you have me in ignore there is no point in answering this silly question.
FRiend your bible posts do nothing AT ALL to prove the papacy. Nor do they even prove that Peter, a JEW who would never adopt a pagan title, was ever anywhere near Rome. The only true Vicar of Christ is the Holy Ghost not ever any man