Boy o bouy
Lets all stay afloat
Has the many been decieved as the bible claims. Will we enter into His rest (Heb.4) or will we be decieved by the spirit of unbelief (Heb.3). Break 1 ya break them all. Right James? The Kingdom, the book of life, are they 1 in the same. No sittin Bull. Do all to stand \"in that day\". How about you Ghandi?
Before we start this, i would like to say i hope by FAITH we will ALL reach the Kingdom. Im not really sure that anyone understands how God will work things out in the end. HE gave us the scriptures. Thats really all we have to work with. I stand corrected. HE will send us a helper. A comforter.
Well? Gods sabbath. Must we keep it?
\"And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.\" (Col. 2:13-17, KJV).
Well? Gods sabbath. Must we keep it?
If so, how many of the other 612 commandments must we keep?
Well? Gods sabbath. Must we keep it?
Grace,
Compare! The Old Testament says, \"Do NOT do
ANY work on a Sabbath.\" Jesus says, \"It is LAWFUL to do
GOOD on a Sabbath\" (Matt. 12:12).
In times past God spoke to our fathers by the prophets. In these last days God spoke to US by His Son (Heb. 1:1-2).
We belong in \"these last days.\" Hence, we MUST listen to Jesus (Matt. 17:5) and DO as he says (Luke 6:46).
We do NOT observe Sabbath! Anything GOOD that we DO on a Sabbath is LAWFUL. Anything BAD is UNLAWFUL
everyday, all the time.
Ed[/color]
Well? Gods sabbath. Must we keep it?
If so, how many of the other 612 commandments must we keep?[/color]
They would correctly point out...
1) That this is the only one of the Ten Commandments that Christians have \"discarded\", and...
2) A day for rest, a Sabbath, is a concept not of the Mosaic Law, but of Creation.
Well? Gods sabbath. Must we keep it?
If so, how many of the other 612 commandments must we keep?
They would correctly point out...
1) That this is the only one of the Ten Commandments that Christians have \"discarded\", and...
2) A day for rest, a Sabbath, is a concept not of the Mosaic Law, but of Creation.
Skip,
All the laws are concepts from creation, but that doesn't change the fact they are all laws.
[span style=\'color:red\']Exd 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it [is] holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth [any] work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.[/span]
I really would like to know, how many of the other 612 commandments must we keep? Or is it just this one?
-Charles[/color]
...
All the laws are concepts from creation, but that doesn't change the fact they are all laws.
...
Really?
I can show a day of rest on the 7th day from scripture:
1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God finished his work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he had done. 3 So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation.Gen. 2:1-3
Show me the other 9 (or 611) commandments at the creation from scripture.
[edit]
BTW -- it's not a matter of law, but of the day being holy.
Are you sure you want to defile a day that God proclaimed as \"holy\"?[/color]
By Grace, are you by chance a member of the Seventh-Day Adventist church? You certainly sound like it.
Pax.
Are you sure you want to defile a day that God proclaimed as \"holy\"?
Skip,
Please answer my question, how many of the other 612 commandments must we keep?
Or is it just this one?
-Charles[/color]
If Christians don't keep the Sabbath, it must be because the Spirit won't let them.
Or is it that I don't have to keep the Sabbath because my obedience is like filthy rags anyway, so I might as well go to the lake.
:headscratch:
Are you sure you want to defile a day that God proclaimed as \"holy\"?
Skip,
Please answer my question, how many of the other 612 commandments must we keep?
Or is it just this one?
-Charles
The official (7th Day Adventist) position is that one must keep the 10 Commandments.
The other 602 were the ceremonial Law that was nailed to the cross.
You know, the sacrifices and offerings, etc.
Now...
1) This is the only one of the Ten Commandments that Christians have \"discarded\".
Why?
2) A day for rest, a Sabbath, is a concept not of the Mosaic Law, but of Creation.
On what basis do you discard this one, and keep the other nine?[/color]
Hebrews does say, 'there still remains then, a sabbath rest for the people of God'.
it doesn't get any plainer than that!!!
http://www.calltodiscipleship.blogspot.com (http://www.calltodiscipleship.blogspot.com)
http://paypal.com (http://paypal.com)
http://ingdirect.com (http://ingdirect.com)
[CODE][BGSOUND SRC=\"http://simplythebest.net/sounds/WAV/sound_effects_WAV/sound_effect_WAV_files/bubbles.wav\"][/color]
If Christians don't keep the Sabbath, it must be because the Spirit won't let them.
tidbit,
Did you know that Jesus BROKE the Sabbath and did NOT observe it?
The Jews who were commanded to observe the Sabbath and knew by heart HOW to observe the Sabbath, ACCUSED Jesus of BREAKING the Sabbath.
Listen to what the Bible teaches: \"Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill him, because
he not only BROKE the Sabbath, but also said God was his Father, making himself equal with God\" (John 5:18).
TRUE Christians do NOT observe Sabbath because they OBEY what Jesus, their HEAD tells them. He said, \"it is LAWFUL
to DO good on Sabbath\" (Matt. 12:12).
Ed[/color]
By Grace, are you by chance a member of the Seventh-Day Adventist church? You certainly sound like it.
Pax.
No i am not a 7th day adventist guy
They do not believe in the \"sign of Jonas\"
They do not believe the Kingdom will be here on earth
They choose to follow the words of their prophetess, rather than the WORDs of God
I did go to them early. Soon after i found in scripture about Gods day of rest. There meetin place was about an hour away. But i only went to their bible study. But even then, i felt they were seeking God through works. Aint gonna find Him that way. I wouldnt do as they told me. I was quite vocal from the start. They brought me into a big meeting (intimidation). They also sent 2 people to me who roamed from church to church, wearing old dress, who tried to tell me i was to be among the 144,000 because of the things i said in bible study. If i was lookin for a place in this world where i might be listened to, they sure were tryin to hand it to me on a silver platter. Thats really not what im lookin for. Im lookin to reach the kingdom. Where the 2nd death will have no power over me. Just gotta put off the things off the flesh and go from there. I hope that God does not get weary of my repenting.
\"And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.\" (Col. 2:13-17, KJV).
I love the fact that you simply posted \"scripture\" in response to my question. Thats the way it should be. Let the WORD speak for itself. No explainations. No interpretations. Beutiful! (I know i cant spell) Ill get back to ya tommorrow. Or the day after. Have a good one.
Thats the way it should be. Let the WORD speak for itself. No explainations. No interpretations. Beutiful!
He asked, \"Do you understand what you are reading?\" He replied, \"How can I, unless someone guides me?\" (Acts 8:30 NRSV)
Everyone interprets stuff they read every day, like the newspaper. You interpret scripture every time you read it, too. Interpretation isnt a bad thing.
Pax.
Now...
1) This is the only one of the Ten Commandments that Christians have \"discarded\".
Why?
2) A day for rest, a Sabbath, is a concept not of the Mosaic Law, but of Creation.
On what basis do you discard this one, and keep the other nine?
Skip,
Who said I keep the other nine?
[span style=\'color:red\']Gal 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.[/span]
-Charles[/color]
Jesus didn't break the sabbath to purport (?) an example for us to do so whenever we wish....
he did so to fulfill the law of love in any situation:
the law, however is still in effect here... the law always is in effect.. love however gets first precedence though if something more important than the law is needed.
Now...
1) This is the only one of the Ten Commandments that Christians have \"discarded\".
Why?
2) A day for rest, a Sabbath, is a concept not of the Mosaic Law, but of Creation.
On what basis do you discard this one, and keep the other nine?
Skip,
Who said I keep the other nine?
[span style=\'color:red\']Gal 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.[/span]
-Charles[/color]
My bad.
It was a careless on my part to assume that you do not kill, steal, commit adultery, etc... :p
Apparently, if I read the implications of your post correctly, not killing, stealing, etc, is tantamount to justification by Law.
And again, your verse goes to law -- actually, justification by Law, which has nothing to do with the concept of Sabbath.
I don't think that I said anywhere that one would be justified by Sabbath-keeping.
Sabbath was established at the creation.
The Sabbath Rest is symbolic of the relationship that we were meant to have with God in the beginning. We were to rest in him, 100%, completely. That's what the Garden of Eden was all about - it was a place where God and man could live together in a \"Sabbath Rest\", and according to Hebrews 4, we will get to that again some day. This will happen, as Revelation says, when there is \"no longer any curse\".
The principle is still valid. Our life is to be a life or rest with/in God. We are to cease striving and realize that he is our source of everything, even the air we breathe. It is in him we live, move, and have our being. I personally need to do this much more than I do.
Thanks Spurly, that is a good idea, I agree and pray to continue to rest in Him daily.
Memmy
Jesus didn't break the sabbath to purport (?) an example for us to do so whenever we wish....
he did so to fulfill the law of love in any situation:
the law, however is still in effect here... the law always is in effect.. love however gets first precedence though if something more important than the law is needed.
But Jesus also said, \"man was not made for the sabbath, but the sabbath was made for man.\" The sabbath under Jewish law was Saturday.
Pax.
Sabbath was established at the creation.
God rested from his creation, the Sabbath was established in Exd 16:23.
I personally think the Ten Commandments are a good thing worthy to be kept by any Christian.
Csloan, Skip is correct... you cannot refer to the ceremonial laws of the Israelittes when referring to the 10 commandments... they are quite different.
I'm a little surprised that no one has brought this up.... in Jesus's sermon on the mount he uses the ten commandments extensively... but he places them in their proper perspective...
[a href=\"http://members.aol.com/cogwriter/command.htm\" target=\'_blank\']http://members.aol.com/cogwriter/command.htm[/a]
And much of the love that Christian's speak of when they speak of Christ's love comes from his teaching on the topic using the Ten Commandments...
I have that bit of teaching taped to my monitor here at work...
Matthew 22 NLT
34But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees with his reply, they thought up a fresh question of their own to ask him. 35One of them, an expert in religious law, tried to trap him with this question: 36\"Teacher, which is the most important commandment in the law of Moses?\"
37Jesus replied, \" `You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind.' 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39A second is equally important: `Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40All the other commandments and all the demands of the prophets are based on these two commandments.\"
There is absolutely nothing wrong with keeping the 10 commandments, in fact keeping some of them is the only way we'll be able to keep our obedience to Christ intact... the problem however is when we think we are justified by the law... read Romans 3-5 to learn how nothing we can do can justify us before God. God owes us nothing... Jesus blood justified us before God... but to keep in his promise an emphasis to obedience is certainly needed, notice I didn't say perfect obedience is needed... I said an emphasis on obedience.. none are perfect save one.
As far as the Sabbath... first off this is for all us Gentiles...
Colossians 2:16
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.
and perhaps this will help us all understand the Sabbath a little better... what Paul wrote about it to the Hebrews...
Hebrews 4 The Message
Hebrews 4
When the Promises Are Mixed with Faith
1For as long, then, as that promise of resting in him pulls us on to God's goal for us, we need to be careful that we're not disqualified. 2We received the same promises as those people in the wilderness, but the promises didn't do them a bit of good because they didn't receive the promises with faith. 3If we believe, though, we'll experience that state of resting. But not if we don't have faith. Remember that God said,
Exasperated, I vowed,
\"They'll never get where they're going,
never be able to sit down and rest.\"
God made that vow, even though he'd finished his part before the foundation of the world. 4Somewhere it's written, \"God rested the seventh day, having completed his work,\" 5but in this other text he says, \"They'll never be able to sit down and rest.\"
6So this promise has not yet been fulfilled. Those earlier ones never did get to the place of rest because they were disobedient. 7God keeps renewing the promise and setting the date as today, just as he did in David's psalm, centuries later than the original invitation:
Today, please listen,
don't turn a deaf ear . . .
8And so this is still a live promise. It wasn't canceled at the time of Joshua; otherwise, God wouldn't keep renewing the appointment for \"today.\" 9The promise of \"arrival\" and \"rest\" is still there for God's people. 10God himself is at rest. And at the end of the journey we'll surely rest with God. 11So let's keep at it and eventually arrive at the place of rest, not drop out through some sort of disobedience.
12God means what he says. What he says goes. His powerful Word is sharp as a surgeon's scalpel, cutting through everything, whether doubt or defense, laying us open to listen and obey. 13Nothing and no one is impervious to God's Word. We can't get away from it--no matter what.
Sabbath was established at the creation.
God rested from his creation, the Sabbath was established in Exd 16:23.[/color]
I disagree. The principle of Sabbath was established on the seventh day of creation, Adam and Eve's first full day as living creatures. They woke up, and God let them know that the job of the day was simply resting in him. Thus the first Sabbath when God rested and revelled in his relationship with mankind.
The Sabbath (or at least the Hebrew Sabbath) was not enjoined on gentile believers by the Council at Jerusalem (Acts 15.)
The Sabbath is also not mentioned in the Noachic covenant (Gen. 9)
ON the other hand, we're told in Genesis that God \"sanctified\" the seventh day.
Good points bog. Not sure where \"Law\" and \"Sort of Understood\" already fits in to all this! (whatever I just meant?)
Sabbath was established at the creation.
God rested from his creation, the Sabbath was established in Exd 16:23.
I disagree. The principle of Sabbath was established on the seventh day of creation, Adam and Eve's first full day as living creatures. They woke up, and God let them know that the job of the day was simply resting in him. Thus the first Sabbath when God rested and revelled in his relationship with mankind.
Although God observed the Sabbath from creation, and sanctified the seventh day (Saturday), until the Jews were led out of Egyptian bondage, there is no evedience man knew anything about it.
The Sabbath was known only to God until...
\"Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven , and givest them right judgements, and true laws, good statutes and commandments:
and madest known unto them thy holy sabbath...\" - Nehemiah 9:13-14.
After God gave the Jews th Sabbath to observe, it was only for them, and no one else. The Gentiles never observed the Sabbath. It was for the Jews only.
Of course, now no one is to observe the Sabbath.
Robert G[/color]
Sabbath was established at the creation.
God rested from his creation, the Sabbath was established in Exd 16:23.
I disagree. The principle of Sabbath was established on the seventh day of creation, Adam and Eve's first full day as living creatures. They woke up, and God let them know that the job of the day was simply resting in him. Thus the first Sabbath when God rested and revelled in his relationship with mankind.
Although God observed the Sabbath from creation, and sanctified the seventh day (Saturday), until the Jews were led out of Egyptian bondage, there is no evedience men knew anything about it.
The Sabbath was known only to God until...
\"Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven , and givest them right judgements, and true laws, good statutes and commandments: and madest known unto them thy holy sabbath...\" - Nehemiah 9:13-14.
Robert G[/color]
I agree Robert. However the principle for the Sabbath goes way back to the beginning. It is not just something that popped on the scene at Mt. Sinai.
: spurlyI agree Robert. However the principle for the Sabbath goes way back to the beginning. It is not just something that popped on the scene at Mt. Sinai.
Well, \"the principle\" of the Sabbath was for God only. You cannot tie any awareness of the Sabbath to man until Mt. Sinai.
As far as man observing the Sabbath in any way, or even knowing about it at all, yes, it did just \"pop up on the scene at Mt. Sinai.\"
Robert G[/color]
There is absolutely nothing wrong with keeping the 10 commandments, in fact keeping some of them is the only way we'll be able to keep our obedience to Christ intact...
Cliff,
If in any way the keeping of the ten commandments is the only way to be obedient to Christ, aren't you then saying we are then justified by the law?
I always believed that the just shall live by faith. (Gal 3:11)
-Charles[/color]
do we have to constantly bring this up?
I don't keep some of the 10 commandments because I'm justified by them... I don't murder, steal, lie, commit adultery, etc. etc. because I have faith in Christ.... I love him, I love the Father, and I respect them enough to want to keep the Lords commands.
That is totally different than keeping the law for justification... as the Pharisees did and as the Israelites did when strictly adhering to law.
We're always bickering over grace on this site... and some are so adamant when you say \"obedience\". There is obedience in Christianity. There is holiness in Christianity... and if we don't have it we'll be in trouble on judgement day.
However our purpose can't be to be holy or obey for the sake of being holy or for the sake of obeying. Obeying and adhering to holiness must be done out of love and faith.
So that means it has to be something we freely choose to do.
There is obedience in Christianity. There is holiness in Christianity... and if we don't have it we'll be in trouble on judgement day.
Cliff,
There is obedience and holiness only in Christ, if we don't have
Him we will be in trouble on the day of Judgment.
-Charles[/color]
Why are you arguing over words?
Romans 12:1
Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual act of worship.
1 Corinthians 1:2
To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours:
Ephesians 1
3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5he[c] predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.
Ephesians 5:3
But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people.
Colossians 1:2
To the holy and faithful brothers in Christ at Colosse: Grace and peace to you from God our Father.
Colossians 1
22But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
1 Thessalonians 3:13
May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy in the presence of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones.
Romans 6
11In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness. 14For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.
Why would anyone rebuke someone for giving a call to holiness and obedience? Do you rebuke Paul for his words?
Luke 11
27As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, \"Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.\" 28He replied, \"Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.\"
John 14
23Jesus replied, \"If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
Do you rebuke Christ for giving a call to obedience?
Csloan.. I know you and I are on the same side... but it seems you have a stigma attached to the word obey and the word holy. I understand. When you see Judaizers all around who constantly try and make you a Jew you tend to get that stigma. However I am not a Judaizer. I am simply trying to preach obedience and holiness as Jesus did. We first put our faith in Jesus as being who he said he was and because of that we put our faith in God... then we obey out of love... not because a command.
There is a problem with the \"grace centered movement\"... it creates a negative reaction to talking about obedience and holiness. Whats silly is I know you keep some of the 10 commandments... what true Christian on Earth couldn't? However you don't keep them out of a sense of duty... you keep them out of love and worship to your creator and savior.[/color]
Cliff,
I didn't think my posting that was being argumentative. And my intention wasn't to rebuke you. Neither would I rebuke Christ or an Apostle. I was just sharing my perceptive on law keeping such as the sabbath.
I am simply trying to preach obedience and holiness as Jesus did.
It doesn't seem to me your preaching obedience or holiness if you are preaching the law. The law is to bring us to Christ {Gal 3:24}, not to make us obedient or holy {Gal 2:21}.
Whats silly is I know you keep some of the 10 commandments... what true Christian on Earth couldn't?
I must not be a true Christian then. I don't keep the commandments, I break them daily. I get mad at people, which is murder in my heart. I lust after women, which is adultery. I covet things that don't belong to me. I don't always love God with all my heart, mind, and strength. I don't always love my neighbors as myself. The list goes on, and on.
I can't keep the commandments, cause if I break one I break them all {Jam 2:10}. I'm just a lowly sinner, I can only hope that God takes mercy on me.
-Charles[/color]
Charlie said
I can't keep the commandments, cause if I break one I break them all {Jam 2:10}. I'm just a lowly sinner, I can only hope that God takes mercy on me.
He already did, over 2000 years ago.
Memmy :D[/color]
John 14
23Jesus replied, \"If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
[/color]
I am thinking that we all still need to realize that we are still a work in progress.
We need to stay focused on our goal, and that is to be more Christlike.
I believe the way to grow is to do just that, grow.
Never thinking we have it all, already, as far as the knowledge and understanding, and never to lose the drive to find more, so that we can arm ourselves for this battle we call life in the world.
We do that, IMO, by focusing on Him, His word. Praising Him and His goodness, serving Him through Love of others. We need to try harder to stay away from backbiting others when they don't agree with us, because we are just the same as anyone else looking for God in our everyday lives.
When we focus on Him and Him only, we tend to lose track of what everyone else is doing. The forest becomes clearer because the trees become our focus, so to speak. We remove the log from our eyes so we can allow others to have the speck removed, not by our power and law keeping, but by God, our Father and Savior in Him, Jesus Christ.
Let's continue to look to Him for our guidance, not each others spiritual sword fighting.
None of us are any different than each other when it comes to being more law abiding. We all continue to break the laws God has for us. They aren't meant as a measure of \"goodness\", they are meant as a way to help us live in this world, and still have a connection to what our Father wants for us, a life abundant.
Yes, even here and now.
Blessings,
Memmy :D
In my opinion, in the restoration movement we don't give the Old Testament its proper place. We think we can ignore most of the Old Testament, because we are under a New Covenant. However, the Old Testament still contains many, many, passages that contain the self-revelation of God. Through the Old Testament we can see who God is, what he is like, and some of the things that he expects for us - God does not change.
There are also many principles behind the laws of the Old Covenant that also apply to us who live under the New Covenant.
Just my two cents,
Kevin
John 14
24He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
Cliff,
I can only gather from your posting John 14:24 without comment, that you are implying that I'm not saved because I sin and don't keep the law. I don't know, maybe your right.
[span style=\'color:red\']1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.[/span]
Like I said, I can only pray God will have mercy on me a sinner {Luk 18:13}.
-Charles[/color]
that you are implying that I'm not saved
You implied wrong... that would be a rather harsh implication for me to make and very judgemental.
I posted the verse I did because I believe Jesus Christ obviously wanted us to obey him and he said to the disciples that if they loved him they would obey him. He didn't simply say \"believe in who I am\" he said \"obey my teaching\".
I was simply posting that to prove that obedience is part of believing in Jesus Christ and loving him and others as he loved us.[/color]
You implied wrong... that would be a rather harsh implication for me to make and very judgemental.
Cliff,
Sorry for misunderstanding your reasons for posting that passage. I wasn't sure, but I shouldn't have made it sound like an accusation.
I was simply posting that to prove that obedience is part of believing in Jesus Christ and loving him and others as he loved us.
Of course we are to be obiediant, but not to the letter but to the Spirit {Rom 7:6}
-Charles[/color]
Of course we are to be obiediant, but not to the letter but to the Spirit {Rom 7:6}
Amen to that... just a misunderstanding of ways of presenting our views which seem to be the same... :D[/color]
Of course we are to be obiediant, but not to the letter but to the Spirit {Rom 7:6}
-Charles
So Charles, how would you keep the spirit (adultry) and not keep the letter.
So Charles, how would you keep the spirit (adultry) and not keep the letter.
OxyMoron,
I can only assume you are asking how do we not commit
adultery without keeping the letter of the law. The answer is to walk in the Spirit. {Gal 5:16-23}
[span style=\'color:red\']Gal 5:18
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.[/span]
-Charles[/color]
\"And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.\" (Col. 2:13-17, KJV).
I suppose you posted this scripture as proof that we do not need to keep Gods sabbath day.
COL. 2 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
I guess the best way to figure what above scripture is talkin about, is to find other scriptures that are talkin about the same thing. Meat and drink in respect to holydays (feast days), new moons and the sabbaths.
EZEKIEL 45 [17] And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.
Wow, even in the same order as Col.2. Now i guess we can look at the specific meat and drink offerings of the holy days (feast days), new moons, and sabbath days.
NUMBERS 28 [9] And on the sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, and the drink offering thereof: [10] This is the burnt offering of every sabbath, beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.
EZEKIEL 46 [6] And in the day of the new moon it shall be a young bullock without blemish, and six lambs, and a ram: they shall be without blemish. [7] And he shall prepare a meat offering, an ephah for a bullock, and an ephah for a ram, and for the lambs according as his hand shall attain unto, and an hin of oil to an ephah.
LEVITICUS 23 [4] These are the feasts of the Lord, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons. [5] In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the Lord's passover. [6] And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the Lord: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread. [7] In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein. [8] But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord seven days: in the seventh day is an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein. [9] And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, [10] Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest: [11] And he shall wave the sheaf before the Lord, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it. [12] And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf an he lamb without blemish of the first year for a burnt offering unto the Lord. [13] And the meat offering thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the Lord for a sweet savour: and the drink offering thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin.
In all the feast days (holy days) meat and drink offerings were written into the laws contained in the ordinances. But it was during the holy day of passover that Jesus was crucified. So why should we judge no man in meat or drink in respect to holy days, new moons and sabbath days?
JOHN 6 [53] Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. [54] Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. [55] For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
COL.2 [14] Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;[15] And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.[16] Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:[17] Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Jesus blotted out "only
COL.2 [14] Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;[15] And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.[16] Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:[17] Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
The handwriting of ordinances. Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
HEBREWS 9 [1] Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
The first covenant had also ordinances of divine service which STOOD ONLY in sacrifice offerings (meats and drinks), and carnal ordinances such as circumcision which were abolished in Christ.
HEBREWS 10 [1] For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.[3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.[4] For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
So ya see, it was the law contained in the ordinances, which stood only in meat an drink offerings, which were the shadow of Christ. The sacrifices.
NUMBERS 28 [9] And on the sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, and the drink offering thereof: [10] This is the burnt offering of every sabbath, beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.
In this scripture you can see the shadow of Christ. The meat and drink offerings of the sabbath. The sabbath was not the shadow of Christ. It was (according to the scriptures) the meat and drink offerings. The laws contained within the ordinances.
1 COR.5 [7] Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: [8] Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
We are to still keep Gods feast days (Holydays) and His sabbaths as the new testament commands us to. Only now, Christ is our passover sacrifice for sin. No more burnt offerings. No more meat offerings. No more drink offerings. And even the laws of the feast of unleavened bread have been fulfilled in Christ. Have a peanut butter and jelly during The Feast of Unleavened Bread and let no man judge you for this.
JOHN 6 [55] For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
Hi James, theres one other way to look at the scripture you sent. The oblations angle.
ISAIAH 1 [10] Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.[11] To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.[12] When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?[13] Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.[14] Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.
Bring no more vain oblations in the new moons and the sabbath. WHY? Because Jesus nailed these offerings (oblations) to the cross. The sabbath, the new moons, and holydays (feastdays) were not nailed to the cross nor were the 10 commandments.
Numbers 18 [8] And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Behold, I also have given thee the charge of mine heave offerings of all the hallowed things of the children of Israel; unto thee have I given them by reason of the anointing, and to thy sons, by an ordinance for ever.[9] This shall be thine of the most holy things, reserved from the fire: every oblation of theirs, every meat offering of theirs, and every sin offering of theirs, and every trespass offering of theirs, which they shall render unto me, shall be most holy for thee and for thy sons.
Just wanted to show you this scripture to confirm that the oblations were the offerings by ordinance.
EZEK.45 [15] And one lamb out of the flock, out of two hundred, out of the fat pastures of Israel; for a meat offering, and for a burnt offering, and for peace offerings, to make reconciliation for them, saith the Lord GOD.[16] All the people of the land shall give this oblation for the prince in Israel.[17] And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.
Once again you can read that it was the (oblations) burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths. And it was the PRINCE OF PEACE who prepared the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.
LUKE 22 [15] And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:[16]For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.[17] And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:[18] For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.[19] And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.[20] Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
The bread-meat offering-now Christ
The wine-drink offering-now Christ
The blood of animals-sin offering-THE BLOOD OF CHRIST
I can only assume you are asking how do we not commit adultery without keeping the letter of the law. The answer is to walk in the Spirit. {Gal 5:16-23}
Hi C
In order to walk in the spirit of the law you must also be walking in the letter. You can not close your eyes (lust of the eyes) and commit the letter (adultry) and say your walking in the spirit. Ya see what im getting at?
\"And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.\" (Col. 2:13-17, KJV).
I suppose you posted this scripture as proof that we do not need to keep Gods sabbath day.
oxymoron,
The above is what apostle Paul learned from the Lord Jesus. And what Jesus says takes precedence over what iswritten in the OIld Testament because in these last days, God SPOKE to us by His Son (Heb. 1:1-2).
As a matter of fact, Jesus himself and the apostles
BROKE the Sabbath (Matt. 12:1; John 5:18). In other wrds, Jesus and the apostles
did NOT observe Sabbath!
Jesus said,
\"...Therefore, it is lawful to do GOOD on a Sabbath\" (Matt. 12:12).This is CONTRARY to what God COMMANDED his ancient nation, Israel, thus:
\"Do NOT bring a load out of your houses or do ANY work on the Sabbath, as I commanded your forefathers\" (Jeremiah 17:22).
Please note the distinction.
In the Old Testament, observance of Sabbath means you are
NOT to do ANY work on the Sabbath.
Jesus did NOT observe Sabbath because he and his apostles
DID work on the Sabbath: they gathered food (Matt. 12:12) and Jesus healed the sick (John 5:16,18).
But Jesus said to them:
\"It is LAWFUL to do GOOD on the Sabbath\" (Matt. 12:12).This means that
anything GOOD that is DONE on a Sabbath is LAWFUL like, earning a living, helping others CARRY loads, healing the sick, worshipping God, etc.
Of course, if one prefers to observe Sabbath the way the ancient people of God were commanded and do NOTHING, that's one's prerogative.
But that does NOT mean that he is more righteous than others or his church is the true church.
Ed[/color]
Hello edpobre
Most claim that the law was to be kept until the cross. By your saying Jesus did not keep the sabbath, your saying that Jesus sinned. We all know He was without sin. Jesus never broke the original commandment. He did however not keep all the added restrictions of the sabbath that were added on to by the jews. This did not make them happy. You said that Jesus and the apostles did not observe the sabbath?
LUKE 4 [14] And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.[15] And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.[16] And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
JESUS kept the sabbath
ACTS 17 [2] And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,[3] Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.
PAUL kept the sabbath
ACTS 13 [42] And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.[43] Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.[44] And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
GENTILES taught on the sabbath
Can anyone show me in scripture where anyone kept sunday (other than those that worshiped baal), as a day of rest?
Hi C
In order to walk in the spirit of the law you must also be walking in the letter. You can not close your eyes (lust of the eyes) and commit the letter (adultry) and say your walking in the spirit. Ya see what im getting at?
OxyMoron,
What I see you getting at is serving the law and not the Spirit.
[span style=\'color:red\']Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not [in] the oldness of the letter.[/span]
-Charles
If the law says not to commit adultery, and one does not commit adultery because we know it hurts God and the innocent, then one is both keeping the law and the spirit of the law. If one does not commit adultery because the law says not to but boy do I really want to with her/him... I am keeping the law but not the spirit... but the innocent are still \"protected\" (but probably not emotionally, etc which is just as destructive. The letter of the law is not exactly the same as the law. Do not work on the sabbath is the law. The definition of what is work (lifting 2 pounds is work but 2.5 is breaking the law - as a dumb example)where not specifically addressed in the scripture, would be an attempt to keep the letter of the law but miss the spirit of the law. Obeying is not 'keeping the letter of the law but not the spirit', it is obedience. Doing what is right when you really don't want to is obedience. Not doing something wrong in order to feel good about yourself, look down on others, bind your \"spirituality\" on others, etc... comes close to understanding the difference to WHY we obey in terms of keeping the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. Enough of my ramblings!
What I see you getting at is serving the law and not the Spirit.
ROMANS 7 [14] For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
The scriptures will speak for themselves
What I see you getting at is serving the law and not the Spirit.
ROMANS 7 [14] For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
The scriptures will speak for themselves
You ignore Rom 7:6, and our
delieverance from the law wherein we being dead
were held. Scripture will speaks for itself, but lets consider context.
-Charles[/color]
Hi C
You seem to be implying that if we walk in the spirit of the law that we are no longer walking in the letter. I guess i can explain what im trying to say by showing scriptures about fulfilling the law.
MATT.5 [17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. [18] For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.[19] Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.[20] For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.[21] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:[22] But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
What did Jesus mean when he said he came to fulfill the law? Did he mean he came to do away with the law or make the law even greater? First he says he has not come to destoy the law. OK. Then he goes on to say the law is intact until heaven and earth pass. I know the earth is still here, so according to Jesus we are still under the law. And when we look at verses 21 and 22 we can see how Jesus fulfilled the law. He tells us not only to keep the letter of the law (thou shall not kill) but we are also to keep the spirit of the law (don't even get angry).
MATT.5 [27] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:[28] But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Again Jesus fills full another one of the 10 commandments. Adultry (the letter of the law) and lust of the eyes (the spirit of the law).
ROMANS 7 [12] Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. [13] Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. [14] For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
The law is spiritual. The letter of the law is so much easier to keep than the spirit of the law. Jesus magnified the law to a spiritual realm. And if you sit and think about it you will realize you cant keep the spirit of the law if you are not first walking in the letter of the law.
ISAIAH 42 [20] Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not.[21] The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.
Isaiah 42 is speaking of Jesus. Just read the whole chapter. Theres no question about it. The above scripture says Jesus would come and will magnify the law. Yup, and the new testament bears this out. He made the commandments even greater
ROMANS 7 [4] Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. [5] For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. [6] But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Jesus magnified the 10 commandments to a spiritual level. But as ive said before, theres no way to walk in the spirit of the law without first walking in the letter of the law. Think about it.
What did Jesus mean when he said he came to fulfill the law?
[span style=\'color:red\']Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.[/span]
-Charles
Charles, in the book of Romans we can find words written that say we are not under the law. Its really not easy to understand what this means. Is it the penalty of the law if we are walking in the spirit of the law? After you graduated from law school? Even Peter understood that Pauls writings were hard to understand.
2 PETER 3 [15] And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; [16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
But if you were to go through the whole book of Romans you would have to conclude that we still must keep the law.
ROMANS 2 [12] For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; [13] (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
the doers of the law shall be justified.
ROMANS 3 [30] Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. [31] Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Romans 3 is clearly pointing out that we could never be justified by the works of the law. We can only truly be justified by grace through faith. For all have sinned, and come short of keeping the commandments. Filthy rags we are! With all that being said, are we to make void the law? GOD FORBID!
ROMANS6 [1] What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? [2] God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? [2] God forbid
ROMANS 6 [15] What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
All these scriptures out of Romans are telling us the same thing. We as christians are capable of sinning and transgressing the law.
ROMANS 6 [10] For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. [11] Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. [12] Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. [13] Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Again the scriptures are telling us we are capable of sin. But as you can see, they are telling us not to walk in sin.
1 JOHN 3 [4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law
If Christians don't keep the Sabbath, it must be because the Spirit won't let them.
JOHN 14 [15] If ye love me, keep my commandments.[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;[17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.[18] I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.[19] Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.[20] At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.[21] He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Seems according to scripture that in order to receive the Holy Spirit we must keep Gods 10 commandments. So if you really do have a spirit in you telling you not to keep one of Gods 10 commandments....
2COR.11[3] But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.[4] For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted,ye might well bear with him.
Do not bear with that spirit.
the doers of the law shall be justified.
[span style=\'color:red\']Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.[/span]
-Charles
Hello edpobre
Most claim that the law was to be kept until the cross.
Was it the law on Sabbath that was to be kept until the cross? Please show me the scripure.
By your saying Jesus did not keep the sabbath, your saying that Jesus sinned.
That's a LIE oxymoron. I did NOT say Jesus sinned. I simply said Jesus BROKE the Sabbath. Did Jesus sin? No, because when he said that \"it is lawful to do GOOD on the Sabbath\" (Matt. 12:12), he was only saying what God COMMANDED him to say (John 12:49).
We all know He was without sin.
That is NOT the issue oxymoron. The issue is: Do Christians HAVE to OBSERVE Sabbath? The answer is NO because Christ said that \"it is
lawful to do GOOD on the Sabbath.\"
The original command of God to the Isarelites was for them \"
NOT to do ANY work on the Sabbath\" (Jer. 17:21-22).
Jesus never broke the original commandment.
Do you pretend to know more about observing the Sabbath than the Jews in Jesus' time who were specifically COMMANDED by God to observe it? The Jews said Jesus BROKE the Sabbath (John 5:18). How can you pretend to know more than them oxymoron?
He did however not keep all the added restrictions of the sabbath that were added on to by the jews. This did not make them happy.
The command NOT to do ANY work on the Sabbath is a COMMAND of God - not an added restriction (Jer. 17:21-22).
You said that Jesus and the apostles did not observe the sabbath?
The Jews said it oxymoron - not I. The Bible says in Matt. 12:1-2 and John 5:18.
LUKE 4 [14] And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.[15] And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.[16] And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
JESUS kept the sabbath
ACTS 17 [2] And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,[3] Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.
PAUL kept the sabbath
Jesus and the apostles did NOT go to the synagogues to OBSERVE Sabbath. They went there to TEACH the word of God. Where else could Jesus and the apostles find the people to preach to on the Sabbath but the synagogues?
ACTS 13 [42] And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.[43] Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.[44] And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
GENTILES taught on the sabbath
Can't you even read correctly oxymoron? The verse says, \"the Gentiles besought that these words might be
preached to them the next Sabbath.\"
Jesus and the apostles WORKED on Sabbath at the synagogues. They DID the WORK of God by PREACHING God's work.
Can anyone show me in scripture where anyone kept sunday (other than those that worshiped baal), as a day of rest?
TRUE Christians do not observe a \"rest day\" or what most people call Sabbath. The day of rest for TRUE Christians is the second coming of Christ when they will rest from their labors - in he Holy City.
We do our congregational worship service ANY day that is agreed upon by the congregation and the locale leadership.
The important thing is, we WORSHIP the Father in Spirit and in TRUTH (John 4:23).
Ed[/color]
the doers of the law shall be justified.
[span style=\'color:red\']Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.[/span]
-Charles[/color]
Your post looks like your quoting me CSloan. In reallity your quoting Jesus. The WORD of God that became flesh.
By your saying Jesus did not keep the sabbath, your saying that Jesus sinned.
That's a LIE oxymoron. I did NOT say Jesus sinned. I simply said Jesus BROKE the Sabbath.[/color]
You simply said Jesus broke the sabbath.
Need i say more?
the doers of the law shall be justified.
[span style=\'color:red\']Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.[/span]
-Charles
Your post looks like your quoting me CSloan. In reallity your quoting Jesus. The WORD of God that became flesh.
It is clear to anyone who reads my post that I quoted you selectively repeating the last portion of Romans 2:13 (written by Paul), in a feeble attempt to support justification through works.
Sorry if this was somehow unclear.
-Charles[/color]
That is NOT the issue oxymoron. The issue is: Do Christians HAVE to OBSERVE Sabbath? The answer is NO because Christ said that \"it is lawful to do GOOD on the Sabbath.\"
So what your saying is, its a \"bad thing\" to obey God and keep His commandments.
Hi C Sloan
I know that we are not justified by our works. Its only by the grace of God that we are saved. But dont ya see by the scriptures that those who are given this free gift try to please the God of creation. There will be only a few saved. The scriptures bear this out. Yet, there are many who claim to believe. The devil believes, and trembles! Theres more to it. Its never to late, as long as we still live. The workers sent out to the fields, the same reward. Sent out early, sent out late. Lets get it right.
TRUE Christians do not observe a \"rest day\" or what most people call Sabbath. The day of rest for TRUE Christians is the second coming of Christ when they will rest from their labors - in he Holy City.
Hi. Is this the city your looking for?
REV. 3 [10] Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. [11] Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. [12] Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
REV. 22 [14] Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
According to James, you shouldnt leave out the 4th
Do you believe these new testament scriptures will stand? Or do you believe that you have a special "in
The God of Abraham is very real. These WORDS will come to pass. HAVE FAITH.
Heres some passages I was looking over concerning the seventh day, and the Sabbath for God's people. I thought I might share my thoughts, and reflect with those who are serious about learning what the Word of God says.
Not just finding another point of doctrine to become dogmatic or divisive about.
[span style=\'color:red\']Hbr 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left [us] of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
Hbr 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it].
Hbr 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Hbr 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh [day] on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Hbr 4:5 And in this [place] again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Hbr 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Hbr 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Hbr 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Hbr 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Hbr 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God [did] from his.
Hbr 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.[/span]
So again I can see how the Sabbath was just a shadow of what was to come, and be fulfilled in Christ.
[span style=\'color:red\']Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.[/span]
-Charles
Charles, as for Col.2 i posted 4 different sets of scriptures concerning the holy days, new moons and feast days. Instead of taking 1 line out of the bible for your own private interpretation let the scriptures interpret themselves. Didnt you believe all those scriptures i posted on the subject? If you find something that you disagree with in those 4 posts about the holy days, new moons and the sabbath days bring it to my attention so we can discuss it. OK.
Charles, you also posted Hebrews 4 as a reason for not keeping Gods sabbath day. Wouldnt it be a good idea to look into Hebrews 3 in order to figure out what Hebrews 4 is talking about?
HEBREWS 3 [12]Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. [13] But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. [14] For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; [15] While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. [16] For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. [17] But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? [18] And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? [19] So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
(out of Egypt - into the wilderness –destoyed them that believe not)
The above new testament passage says you can deny God and Jesus,and walk in the spirit of unbelief. So who are these people and why were they killed in the wilderness? The answer would be very important, as this passage tells us NOT to do as they did and walk with an evil heart of unbelief.
EZEK.20 [10] Wherefore I caused them to go forth out of the land of Egypt, and brought them into the wilderness. [11] And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them.[12] Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.[13] But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them.
(out of Egypt - into the wilderness - polluted HIS SABBATHS - destroyed them)
When we go back to the old testament to see exactly what the new testament is talkin about we find that Hebrews 3 is speaking of those who did not keep the sabbath and how the Lord was to destroy them in the wilderness because of unbelief. So the scripture in Hebrews 3 is telling us, as believers we must keep the sabbath.
DEUT.5[15] And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.
(remember-out of Egypt-Keep the Sabbath)
HEBREWS 4 [1] Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.[2] For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.[3] For we which have believed do enter into rest,
Those that do believe, because of FAITH keep Gods sabbath rest and those with the spirit of unbelief do not. Thats what it says Charles.
So what does Hebrews 4 say?
[1] Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.[2] For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.[3] For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Don't come up short. Have faith in the WORD. Enter into Gods rest. His sabbath day.
[4] For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.[5] And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Yup, the 7th day. That's Gods sabbath day alright.
[6] Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:[7] Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Some, to whom it was first preached had the spirit of unbelief and did not enter the sabbath rest (Ezek.20). They were destroyed. Do you hear his voice today? Right now. Don't harden your heart as they did.
[8] For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.[9] There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
You've heard the many say
Instead of taking 1 line out of the bible for your own private interpretation let the scriptures interpret themselves.
OxyMoron,
Ok. Heres two.
[span style=\'color:red\']Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.[/span]
This shouldn't seems like a private interpretation, since I'm not commenting on the text. I am just allowing the Scripture speak for itself. I recommend you try it.
-Charles[/color]
That is NOT the issue oxymoron. The issue is: Do Christians HAVE to OBSERVE Sabbath? The answer is NO because Christ said that \"it is lawful to do GOOD on the Sabbath.\"
So what your saying is, its a \"bad thing\" to obey God and keep His commandments.
oxymoron,
Did I say \"it is a bad thing to obey God and His commandments?\" Obviously, you don't know what you are talking about oxymoron. Hasn't anybody taught you that OBEYING Christ is OBEYING God?
God COMMANDS people to LISTEN to His Son (Matt. 17:5). God SENT His Son into the world, so that whoever BELIEVES His Son shall NOT perish but have everlasting life (John 3:16).
Do you belong to the PAST oxymoron? In the past, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but spoke to US in these last days by His Son (Heb. 1:1-2). That's why God COMMANDS people to LISTEN to His Son (Matt. 17:5).
You better BELIEVE and OBEY what Jesus says because everything Jesus says is a COMMAND from God (John 12:49) and anyone who does NOT elieve the Son is CONDEMNED already.
If Jesus says, \"it is LAWFUL to do GOOD on the Sabbath\" in answer to the Jews' accusation that he BROKE the Sabbath, you better believe it oxymoron!
Ed[/color]
TRUE Christians do not observe a \"rest day\" or what most people call Sabbath. The day of rest for TRUE Christians is the second coming of Christ when they will rest from their labors - in he Holy City.
Hi. Is this the city your looking for?
REV. 3 [10] Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. [11] Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. [12] Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
REV. 22 [14] Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
According to James, you shouldnt leave out the 4th
Do you believe these new testament scriptures will stand? Or do you believe that you have a special "in" with God? You don't need to keep the sabbath day, you can wear graven images around your neck. You can forsake Gods law and keep not His commandments, and still be crowned and enter into the kingdom.
oxymoron, either you are so sabbath-oriented that you see sabbath whenever you read \"commandments\" or like the rest, you have a magic magnifying glass that shows sabbath in the verses you quoted above.
These verses are NOT talking about sabbath at all! One of God's COMMNDMENTS which one MUST keep in order to enter the Holy City is first and foremost, LISTEN to God's Son (Mat. 17:5), BELIEVE God's Son (John 3:16, 18, 36), and OBEY God's Son (2 John 9).
God's Son says \"it is LAWFUL to DO good on the Sabbath\" (Matt. 12:12). Are you LISTENING oxymoron? Don't you BELIEVE God's Son? Does this look like \"OBSERVING the Sabbath to you?\"
Do you believe yourself to be SUPERIOR to Jesus that you don't even care to look at what Jesus said?
oxymoron, you may observe Sabbath all your life but you REJECT what Jesus says and you will end up at the lake of fire. That's for sure!
The new testament says that the many will be decieved. Don't be among them. Don't follow the words of man. Follow the scriptures, be crowned and enter the city.
You have already been deceived oxymoron. First, you REJECT Jesus' teaching that he is a MAN (John 8:40) and the Father is the ONLY true God (John 17:3). CONTRARY to what you believe, Jesus is NOT \"God in the flesh.\" He is SIMPLY a man.
Second, you REJECT Jesus' teaching that \"it is LAWFUL to DO good on the Sabbath\" (Matt. 12:12).You must realize oxymoron that whoever TAUGHT you to OBSERVE sabbath CONTRARY to what Jesus TAUGHT is NOT and will NEVER be superior to Jesus.
Ed[/color]
[
oxymoron, you may observe Sabbath all your life but you REJECT what Jesus says and you will end up at the lake of fire. That's for sure!
No question about that. Gotta follow all 10 and have faith in Jesus to reach the kingdom.But is it you or i who rejects His words? Plus, the lake of fire thing? Scripture is clear. Those (all) who do not make it to the kingdom will be judged equally. Ghandi, Hitler, Hiawatha, and yogi Berra. Maybe you, maybe me. All judged by those commandments which have their dealings with man. Thats what the scriptures say. As my creator says (are not my ways equal). They sure as hell are!
Ya know Ed
We will ALL stand before the Holy One of Israel. Alls i have to go by is the scriptures. I will try to follow them. Some will try to enter through doctrines of various religions. And there are many of them. Buy there are to many warnings in the Word against following others. Its kinda a lonley way to travel through this world. Specially when so many claim to be looking and believing. I have to stick with the scriptures. I will overcome the world. Or i wont. There will be no middle ground.
Lets look into iniquity
LEV.5 [17] And if a soul sin, and commit any of these things which are forbidden to be done by the commandments of the LORD; though he wist it not, yet is he guilty, and shall bear his iniquity.
Break commandments=iniquity
NUMBERS 15 [31] Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.
Break commandments=iniquity
PSALMS 89 [30] If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;[31] If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;[32] Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.
Break commandments=iniquity
MATT.7 [21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Ye that work iniquity=I never knew you
1 JOHN 2 [1] My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: [2] And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. [3] And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. [4] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Theres the children that know the Lord.
JEREMIAH 16 [9] For thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will cause to cease out of this place in your eyes, and in your days, the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride. [10] And it shall come to pass, when thou shalt shew this people all these words, and they shall say unto thee, Wherefore hath the Lord pronounced all this great evil against us? or what is our iniquity? or what is our sin that we have committed against the Lord our God? [11] Then shalt thou say unto them, Because your fathers have forsaken me, saith the Lord, and have walked after other gods, and have served them, and have worshipped them, and have forsaken me, and have not kept my law;
Verses 14 and 15 of this chapter in Jeremiah speaks of the gathering of Gods people (in the twinkling of an eye) to the 1000 yr period of rest (go read it). At that time, the many (Matt.7) will ask "what is our iniquity
Lets look into righteousness
1JOHN2 [28] And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.[29] If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
DEUT.6 [25] And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.
it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments. OBSERVE TO DO! We will fall short.
PSALM 119 [172] My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.[173] Let thine hand help me; for I have chosen thy precepts.[174] I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law is my delight.
For all thy commandments are righteousness. Also mentioned here is salvation. Being saved.
ISAIAH 48 [17] Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.[18] O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:
LORD-REDEEMER-HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL (no question as to who that is). The new testament says Jesus was the WORD of God that became flesh. The only WORD of God around when Jesus came was the old testament. In Isaiah our Redeemer tells us we are to keep the commandments if we are to be righteous.
The new testament says the same thing the old testament said.
1COR.15 [34] Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
1 JOHN 3 [7] Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.[8] He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.
1 JOHN 3 [4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
LUKE 1 [6] And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
PSALM 7 [6] Arise, O LORD, in thine anger, lift up thyself because of the rage of mine enemies: and awake for me to the judgment that thou hast commanded.[7] So shall the congregation of the people compass thee about: for their sakes therefore return thou on high.[8] The LORD shall judge the people: judge me, O LORD, according to my righteousness, and according to mine integrity that is in me.[9] Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins.
You have heard some people say that we will not be judged by our own righteousness. We only need believe in Jesus and his righteousness and nothing more. Psalm 7 speaks of the time when Christ shall return to this earth to judge the people. Read it for yourself. Its very clear.
1 PETER 4 [17] For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?[18] And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
And if not for the gift of "grace
OxyMoron,
You need to calm down on your double and triple posting. How is anyone supposed to keep track of a thread if your the only one posting on it?
If you need to add something to your post (as I often do), select edit at the top of that post. Then just add to your post. But let someone reply to your posts before just spamming replys.
Happy posting.
-Charles
Sorry Csloan
I kinda get excited about the Word of God. Aint it beutiful!
Sorry Csloan
I kinda get excited about the Word of God. Aint it beutiful!
OxyMoron,
I admire your zeal, I look forward to sharing our convictions and understandings together.
As for edpobre, you can't take him serious. His understanding is darkened {Eph 4:18}, and speaks evil of things he doesn't understand {2Pe 2:12}.
-Charles
The new testament says Jesus was the WORD of God that became flesh.
oxymoron,
This is a LIE! The New Testament does NOT say \"Jesus was the word that BECAME flesh.\" Please show scripture to prove your allegation.
Ed[/color]
Hello Ed,
John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Wanna know somethin else ED. Jesus made the sabbath day. Thats no lie.
Hello Ed,
John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Please show me where it says that Jesus is the \"word that was made flesh.\" Tell me oxymoron, who is the Father's Son, the \"word that was made flesh\" or the \"flesh that the word\" turned INTO?
Wanna know somethin else ED. Jesus made the sabbath day. Thats no lie.
The word of God is TRUTH oxymoron (John 17:17). Anything that you CANNOT support with the word of God is a LIE. Now prove to me that \"Jesus made the sabbath day.\"
Ed[/color]
Hi Ed
How you doing?
John 1:1-5
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [2] The same was in the beginning with God. [3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. [4] In him was life; and the life was the light of men. [5] And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
All things were made by him (who? Jesus, the Word of God)
Mark 2:27
And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
The sabbath was made for man
There ya go old buddy. Ya seem to wanna believe whats written in the Word.
Dont take hold of the doctrines of man Ed. Believe the written Word. Jesus OUR Christ said many would come in his name and decieve many. Be amoung the few.
Lets take for instance JOHN 3 {16}
JOHN 3 [16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. [17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. [18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [19] And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. [20] For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. [21] But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
OK. If you go on to read the next 3 verses in John (19-21) you will see that unbelievers have NO LIGHT IN THEM because they prefer darkness. Could it be there are some that say they believe and think they believe, but actually believe not due to their deeds?
ISAIAH 8 [20] To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.[21] And they shall pass through it, hardly bestead and hungry: and it shall come to pass, that when they shall be hungry, they shall fret themselves, and curse their king and their God, and look upward.[22] And they shall look unto the earth; and behold trouble and darkness, dimness of anguish; and they shall be driven to darkness.
As you can see this scripture from Isaiah is not about ancient Israel. In fact it has not yet come to pass. Its the Day our saviour returns to this earth. Its the DAY OF THE LORD! To the law (10 commandments) and the testimony (Jesus) If they speak not according to these words THERE IS NO LIGHT IN THEM. Just as the WORD says in John 3. Do a turn around. Never to late as long as you live. Repent. Keep our Gods 10 commandments. Bring yourself close to your maker. And live.
Hey Ed
Heres a little story line out of the Word of God
PSALM 94 [11] The LORD knoweth the thoughts of man, that they are vanity.12] Blessed is the man whom thou chastenest, O LORD, and teachest him out of thy law;[13] That thou mayest give him rest from the days of adversity, until the pit be digged for the wicked.
Teach man out of thy law, until pit digged for the wicked
PSALM 119 [84] How many are the days of thy servant? when wilt thou execute judgment on them that persecute me? [85] The proud have digged pits for me, which are not after thy law.[86] All thy commandments are faithful: they persecute me wrongfully; help thou me.
They who are not after the law have dug pits and ALL thy commandments are faithful. Hey Ed, what about the 4th?
PROVERBS 28 [9] He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.[10] Whoso causeth the righteous to go astray in an evil way, he shall fall himself into his own pit: but the upright shall have good things in possession.
Those who turn from hearing the law will fall into pit they themselves dug.
PSALM 7 [15] He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made.
ISAIAH 24 [3] The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word.[4] The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.[5] The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.[6] Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.[17] Fear, and the pit, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth.[18] And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake.[22] And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
Well, heres the end of the story. The Day of the Lord. Those that have transgressed the law of God will end up in the pit and scripture says in Revelation that those that keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus will end up in the Kingdom. Those in the pit will be visited after many days. A thousand years maybe?
REV.20 [1] And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.[2] And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,[3] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
YUP. A thousand years. Looks like those that do not observe to keep Gods 10 commandments will be having some company in the pit. Kinda makes Saddams wormhole look rather appealing.
The new testament says if you break one of the commandments, you break them all. Has the whole world been decieved as the bible claims? Will good intentions or a warm fuzzy at a sunday go to meeting lead us to the kingdom of God or must we keep His commandments AND have faith in Jesus as the scriptures say. Choose life.
Hi C Sloan
Guess im doing it again! Multiple posts before answers are given. Sorry. But i guess, i really know there are no other answers. Least ways, not out of the Word of God.
OxyMoron,
What do you make of the decision that the Law of Moses was not to be bound on the Gentiles in Acts 15?
Acts 15
23 They wrote this letter by them:
The apostles, the elders, and the brethren,
To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia:
Greetings.
24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, \"You must be circumcised and keep the law\"--to whom we gave no such commandment-- 25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.
Farewell.
Read Acts 15, which gives the discussion that led up to this letter, for more context.
Hi Ed
How you doing?
John 1:1-5
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [2] The same was in the beginning with God. [3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. [4] In him was life; and the life was the light of men. [5] And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
All things were made by him (who? Jesus, the Word of God)
oxymoron,
Listen to the word of God:
\"Thou, even thou, art Lord ALONE; thou hast MADE heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worship you.
Thou art the Lord the God who didst choose Abram, and broughtest him forth out of Ur of the Chaldees, and gavest him the name Abraham\" (Nehemiah 9:6-7).These verses tell us that the Lord God ALONE made everything. I don't see Jesus HELPING the Lord God MAKE the heavens and the earth.
And who is this Lord God? Listen oxymoron:
\"Doubtless thou art our FATHER, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledges us not; thou O Lord, art our FATHER, our REDEEMER; thy name is from everlasting\" (Isaiah 63:16).Is Jesus the Father referred to in these verses? Listen oxymoron:
Jesus spoke these words, lifted up his eyes to heaven and said, \"Father, the hour has come.... And this is eternal life, that they may know YOU, the ONLY true God and Jesus Christ whom YOU have SENT\" (John 17:3).You MISINTERPRET what you read oxymoron. All things are NOT made \"by\" Jesus. All things are made \"because of\" Jesus.
Mark 2:27
And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
The sabbath was made for man
There ya go old buddy. Ya seem to wanna believe whats written in the Word.
This shows that you DON'T understand what Jesus said.
In verse 23, Jesus and his disciples went through the grainfields on the Sabbath and the disciples began to pluck the heads of grain. The Jews said to Jesus (verse 24), \"Look, why do they do what is NOT lawful on a Sabbath?
And he said to them, \"The Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath.\" This is Jesus' justification for his disciples' breaking the Sabbath. As Jesus said, \"It is LAWFUL to do GOOD on a Sabbath.\" What the discipl,es did was GOOD in Jesus' eyes.
Dont take hold of the doctrines of man Ed. Believe the written Word. Jesus OUR Christ said many would come in his name and decieve many. Be amoung the few.
Examine yourself very well oxymoron.
Ed[/color]
Hi DCR
And geetings to you to.
ACTS 15 [20]But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. [21] For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
Well ? I looked into acts and In the context of the full scripture, it was speaking as to whether gentiles needed to be circumcized. Nothing to do with the 10 commandments or the sabbath. It was the law of circumcism.I also found another new testament scripture about the gentiles, idols, blood, etc. and that scripture to was talking about circumsim but that being said,I decided to also look into what pollution of idols (acts 15 [20])were all about. What I found was quite interesting.
LEVITICUS 19 [3] Ye shall fear every man his mother, and his father, and keep my sabbaths: I am the Lord your God. [4] Turn ye not unto idols, nor make to yourselves molten gods: I am the Lord your God.
LEVITICUS 26 [1]Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the Lord your God. [2] Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the Lord.
EZEKIEL 20 [16]Because they despised my judgments, and walked not in my statutes, but polluted my sabbaths: for their heart went after their idols.
I don't know what the connection might be as to why graven images (pollution of idols) are a sign that you don't keep Gods sabbath but if the WORD says so I believe it. I do know the churches that do keep the sabbath don't have any standing images or crosses. Well, at least the ones ive seen.
So.....
Do I get more points than you if I keep the Sabbath better than you do?
Hi Janine
Of course. But whose gonna keep score? Ed, what are ya doin next Friday at sundown?
God's gonna keep score of course.
And I imagine Ed won't be lighting candles at sundown Friday.
Well Janine, im a little scared. Back in 2nd grade a firey little redhead put such a whuppin on me cause i struck her out in a game of softball. It tramatized me for life. Im not sure i want to play.
And who is this Lord God? Listen oxymoron:
\"Doubtless thou art our FATHER, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledges us not; thou O Lord, art our FATHER, our REDEEMER; thy name is from everlasting\" (Isaiah 63:16).
Is Jesus the Father referred to in these verses? Listen oxymoron:
Kinda hard to figure at times Ed. The father and I are one. Hard to understand. But I wanna focus on our \"REDEEMER\" which was written in the scripture you sent. In that scripture you say the REDEEMER is the father. Sure does look that way. Ed could we start a thread on this and try to figure it out? Cause the scriptures below imply Christ as our redeemer.
TITUS 2 [11] For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,[12] Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;[13] Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;[14] Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Jesus Christ. Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us
REV.5 [8] And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.[9] And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood
The 2 above new testament scriptures point out that Jesus is our redeemer.
ISAIAH 48 [17] Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.[18] O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:
OK. So what does our Redeemer say about keeping the 10 commandments? Are you listening to Him Ed?
PSALM 19 [6] His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.[7] The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.[8] The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.[9] The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.[10] More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.[11] Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.[12] Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.[13] Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.[14] Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.
The law (10 commandments) and the testimony? My Redeemer! The "many
Hey Ed
I found another scripture that makes the point that you were trying to get across. Im sure if we look into the scriptures we can figure it out. If we do start a thread on this be patient with me. Ive never done a study on this, and i will make mistakes. Anyways, heres the scripture.
Isaiah 45:5-9
I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: [6] That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else. [7] I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things. [8] Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the Lord have created it.
Are not the ekklesia entered into the true sabbath in Christ?
ollie
Hello Ollie
Im not quite sure i know what your asking. Are you saying that you rest in Jesus and He is your sabbath? If thats the case this is what ive found in the scriptures.
2 THES. 1 [7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, [8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
When will our rest with Jesus begin? According to scripture its when he returns.
REVELATIONS 20 [4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
This rest with Jesus begins with the 1000 yr period of rest spoken of in Revelations. That's soon after the goins on of 2Thes.1 [7].
ISAIAH 66 [22] For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain. [23] And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord. [24] And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
And according to the WORD of GOD, his people will still be keeping the sabbath during that 1000 yr period. Ollie, i really dont believe we have a wishy washy God. Keep the sabbath for 4 thousand years, dont worry about it for 2 thousand years but keep it during the 1000 yr period of rest. Jesus is the same today, yesterday and forever.
PSALMS 132 [8] Arise, O LORD, into thy rest; thou, and the ark of thy strength.[9] Let thy priests be clothed with righteousness; and let thy saints shout for joy.[10] For thy servant David's sake turn not away the face of thine anointed.[11] The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne.[12] if thy children will keep my covenant and my testimony that i shall teach them, their children shall also sit upon thy throne for evermore.[13] For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.[14] This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it.
Arise into thy rest, this is my rest for ever. And the children of God will also enter this rest IF they keep his covenant (law) and his testimony (of Jesus). Not one or the other as many who have come in his name profess.
ISAIAH 14 [3] And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear,and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,[4] That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased![5] The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.[6] He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.[7] The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet:
Above scripture says it all. It shall come to pass in that day (verse 3) the LORD shall give thee rest. Verse 7 says at that time the whole world is at rest. All the bad guys will be gone. 2Thes.1 tells us why. Theres gonna be a fire! The whole world is not at rest at this point in time. If someone is trying to tell you that you dont have to keep GODS sabbath because they are resting in Jesus, maybe, as a friend you should show them these scriptures. The rest with Jesus will not begin until he returns and sets up his kingdom. The land he promised as an inheritance.
DEUT.12 [9] For ye are not as yet come to the rest and to the inheritance, which the LORD your God giveth you.[10] But when ye go over Jordan, and dwell in the land which the LORD your God giveth you to inherit, and when he giveth you rest from all your enemies round about, so that ye dwell in safety;
Sorry, as i told C Sloan for multiple postings but my puter is slow and i have trouble posting most of the time. So when its working well i post as much as i can.
MATT.18 [11] For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. [12] How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?[13] And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.
The Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
MATT.15 [22] And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.[23] But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.[24] But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel
JER.50 [4] In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the children of Israel shall come, they and the children of Judah together, going and weeping: they shall go, and seek the LORD their God.[5] They shall ask the way to Zion with their faces thitherward, saying, Come, and let us join ourselves to the LORD in a perpetual covenant that shall not be forgotten.[6] My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.
My people hath been lost sheep
they have forgotten their restingplace (they sure have)
let us join ourselves to the LORD in a perpetual covenant that shall not be forgotten (remember the...)
Ollie, In Jeremiah we can find the sheep that Jesus came for. Have the many been decieved, just as the new testament says. The sabbath rest has been forgotten, but as you can see, the lost sheep that Jesus came for will return to the "perpetual covenant
Just a little somethin about paths to walk in and repairs.
JER.6 [16] Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.[17] Also I set watchmen over you, saying, Hearken to the sound of the trumpet. But they said, We will not hearken.[18] Therefore hear, ye nations, and know, O congregation, what is among them.[19] Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people, even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened unto my words, nor to my law, but rejected it.
Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls
ISAIAH 58 [12] And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.[13] If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:[14] Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in. If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight,
ISAIAH 61 [1] The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;[2] To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;[3] To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.[4] And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.[5] And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers.[6] But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.
That they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified. And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations
PROVERBS 3 [1] My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments: [2] For length of days, and long life, and peace, shall they add to thee. [3] Let not mercy and truth forsake thee: bind them about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart: [4] So shalt thou find favour and good understanding in the sight of God and man. [5] Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. [6] In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths
oxymoron,
Please tell us HOW Sabbath is to be OBSERVED as COMMANDED by God. Then please tell us HOW you and your church OBSERVE Sabbath.
Ed
Hi Ed
ISAIAH 58 [13] If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:[14] Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
I try to follow the above scripture and the commandment as its written. Reading the bible. No work that can be put off till sunday. I belong to no church.
OxyMoron,
Let no man judge you in your choice to keep the sabbath {Col 2:16}, and don't judge those who don't. {Rom 14:6-10}
Shalom,
-Charles
Hi Ed
ISAIAH 58 [13] If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:[14] Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
oxymoron,
Do you understand what the above quoted verses are saying? Let's look at these again as they are renderd in the
Today's English Version:
ISAIAH 58 [13] The Lord says, \"If you treat the Sabbath as sacred and do not pursue your own interests on that day; if you value my holy day and honor it by NOT travelling, working or talking idly on that day, [14] then you will find the joy that comes from serving me. I will make you honored all over the world, and you will enjoy the land I gave your amcestor, Jacob. I, the Lord, have spoken.\"It says
\"NO travelling, NO working...\", you understand?
I try to follow the above scripture and the commandment as its written. Reading the bible. No work that can be put off till sunday.
You try! Is that how you observe Sabbath - you TRY? NO work
that can be put off till Sunday? Obviously, you CAN'T even COMPREHEND what you are READING!!! Does God give you an option? Where do you get what you are saying oxymoron?
Here are additional COMMANDS that you MUST obey oxymoron:
\"Tell them that if they love their lives, they must NOT carry ANY load on the Sabbath. They must NOT carry ANYTHING in the gates of Jerusalem or carry ANYTHING out of their houses on the Sabbath. They must NOT work on the Sabbath; they must OBSERVE it as a sacred day, as I commanded their ANCESTORS\" (Jer. 17:21-22) TEV).
Do you OBSERVE Sabbath as COMMANDED by God? Are Abraham, Isaac and Jacob your ancestors oxymoron? I bet your answer to both questions are NEGATIVE, right?
I belong to no church.
Jesus Christ BUILT his CHURCH (Matt. 16:18). And he is the HEAD of his BODY, the CHURCH (Col. 1:18). And DISCIPLES of Christ are \"all BAPTIZED into the ONE body\" (1 Cor. 12:13). And DISCIPLES of Christ were first called CHRISTIANS in Antioch (Acts 11:26).
You said you \"belong to no church.\" Therefore, you are NOT a Christian oxymoron! You must belong to \"time past.\" What business have you then in talking to Christians to whom God SPOKE by His Son (Heb. 1:1-2)?
Ed[/color]
Ed
I guess i should have been more specific. I belong to no church built by hands.
ACTS 17 [24] God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
MARK 14 [57] And there arose certain, and bare false witness against him, saying,[58] We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.
ZECH.6 [12] And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD: [13] Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.
1COR.3 [16] Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?[17] If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
2COR.6 [11] O ye Corinthians, our mouth is open unto you, our heart is enlarged.[12] Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels.[13] Now for a recompence in the same, (I speak as unto my children,) be ye also enlarged.[14] Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?[15] And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?[16] And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.[17] Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,[18] And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you
EPH.2 [19] Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;[20] And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;[21] In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:[22] In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit. Do you understand this Ed?
ISAIAH 45 [11] Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.[12] I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded. [13] I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.[15] Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.[17] But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
2COR.6 [11] O ye Corinthians, our mouth is open unto you, our heart is enlarged.[12] Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels.[13] Now for a recompence in the same, (I speak as unto my children,) be ye also enlarged.[14] Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?[15] And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?[16] And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.[17] Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,[18] And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty
Boy this new testament scripture says quite a bit when you let scripture interpret scripture. First, what does it mean "to enlarge your heart
OxyMoron,
Let no man judge you in your choice to keep the sabbath {Col 2:16}, and don't judge those who don't. {Rom 14:6-10}
Shalom,
-Charles
:amen:
Dont know what bible you are getting those interpretations from but if you go to page 5 you will find 4 posts full of scriptures about the meat and drink offerings. My guess is in your bible they changed the name of Jesus to Joshua in Hebrews 4. Am i correct?
For 16 hundred years or so the bad guys were able to have their way. They set up the way most will think. Then came along the printing press. We are now able to all read the Word.
1 PETER 5 [8] Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
This new testament scripture says the devil is as a ROARING LION. And we as new testament believers are to watch out for these bad guys. They will be SEEKING WHOM HE MAY DEVOUR:
MATT.7 [14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.[15] Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
And the above new testament scripture says to beware of false prophets. They are RAVENING WOLVES. Also implied here is that "the many
Dont know what bible you are getting those interpretations from but if you go to page 5 you will find 4 posts full of scriptures about the meat and drink offerings. My guess is in your bible they changed the name of Jesus to Joshua in Hebrews 4. Am i correct?
Oxymormon,
Are you talking about Hebrews 4:8 in the Westcott-Hort translations? You wouldn't be correct in your assumption though, because I do use a AV (http://www.answers.com/Authorized+Version). But I have a newer translation around here somewhere if that helps.
But, what is your point?[/color]
I would kinda think this would be an important topic if you were truly seeking the truth. So... Why aint all you ism'S coming here to defend your religiosity? Without this, calvins nothing, the popes nothing, and all your sunday go to meeting preacher boys are nothing. DEFEND YOUR FAITH!
I would kinda think this would be an important topic if you were truly seeking the truth. So... Why aint all you ism'S coming here to defend your religiosity? Without this, calvins nothing, the popes nothing, and all your sunday go to meeting preacher boys are nothing. DEFEND YOUR FAITH!
Oxymormon,
What are you talking about and who are you talking to? Your random and unprovoked attacks on calvinists, catholics and preachers doesn't make sense.
Again let me ask you, what is your point?[/color]
Hi CSloan
Im not attacking anyone. Im just wondering why people believe as they do without scriptural support. Everyone in my family is catholic and i know nothing of calvanism but there must be a reason people believe as they do.
EZEKIEL 20 [12] Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.
The sabbath is a sign between God and his people that the "Lord does sanctify them
Hi All, I'm new and I will go back and read all the post, but I don't want to lose my train of thought(so easy to do nowadays). If I repeat anyone, please forgive.
IMO, we must keep the Sabbath. Having said this, let me add, that I believe Jesus is the Sabbath. (Come unto me all ye that are heavy burdened and I will give you rest.)
He is the refreshing. So if we have Jesus in our hearts, we keep the Sabbath, ALWAYS!
It's no longer about a day...it's about the rest that Jesus gives us, when we know HIM in a personal way.
Do you ever wonder what God thinks, as He watches and listens to these human arguments about His opinion????
??? DID I SAY SOMETHING WRONG? ???
YOU GUYS WERE GOING ALONG PRETTY GOOD, 'TIL I POSTED AND THEN THINGS STOPPED.
I HOPE I HAVEN'T BROKEN A RULE OR SOMETHING :(
KAT
KAT
After some 11 or 12 pages of discussion, sometimes the thread goes kinda cold. I'm sure it has nothing to do with your post. I like what you write. Keep it coming.
Steve
IMO, we must keep the Sabbath. Having said this, let me add, that I believe Jesus is the Sabbath. (Come unto me all ye that are heavy burdened and I will give you rest.)
He is the refreshing. So if we have Jesus in our hearts, we keep the Sabbath, ALWAYS!
It's no longer about a day...it's about the rest that Jesus gives us, when we know HIM in a personal way.
kate, what you are saying in effect is, we DON'T have to OBSERVE Sabbath the way God COMMANDED the ancient Israelites to do. But tell me kate, how do you \"know Jesus in a personal way?\"
Do you ever wonder what God thinks, as He watches and listens to these human arguments about His opinion????
kate, God's words are NOT \"opinions!\" They are FACTS and they are TRUE because God's WORDS (not opinions) ALWAYS come true.
I DON'T wonder what God thinks kate because I DEFINITELY know what He will do to \"UNGODLY people.\" He will DESTROY them on JUDGMENT day (2 Peter 3:7).
Ed[/color]
kate, God's words are NOT \"opinions!\" They are FACTS and they are TRUE because God's WORDS (not opinions) ALWAYS come true.
THANK YOU, ED, FOR POINTING OUT MY MISUSED WORD.
YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! GOD'S WORD ARE FACTS, NOT OPINIONS. WHAT WAS I THINKING???
kate, what you are saying in effect is, we DON'T have to OBSERVE Sabbath the way God COMMANDED the ancient Israelites to do. But tell me kate, how do you \"know Jesus in a personal way?\"
I'M SAYING THAT WE ARE NOT UNDER THE SAME COVENANT AS THE ANCIENT ISRAELITES....'CAUSE WE'RE NOT ANCIENT ISRAELITES! THOSE OLD ORDINANCES HAVE BEEN NAILED TO THE CROSS. MY LORD WAS ALSO ATTACKED FOR HEALING ON THE SABBATH DAY.
AND I'M SAYING THAT I DO KEEP THE SABBATH. I THINK JESUS IS THE SABBATH IN THE TRUEST SENSE.
HOW DO YOU KNOW JESUS IN A PERSONAL WAY, ED?
KATE[/color]
kate, God's words are NOT \"opinions!\" They are FACTS and they are TRUE because God's WORDS (not opinions) ALWAYS come true.
THANK YOU, ED, FOR POINTING OUT MY MISUSED WORD.
YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! GOD'S WORD ARE FACTS, NOT OPINIONS. WHAT WAS I THINKING???
You are welcome kate.
kate, what you are saying in effect is, we DON'T have to OBSERVE Sabbath the way God COMMANDED the ancient Israelites to do. But tell me kate, how do you \"know Jesus in a personal way?\"
I'M SAYING THAT WE ARE NOT UNDER THE SAME COVENANT AS THE ANCIENT ISRAELITES....'CAUSE WE'RE NOT ANCIENT ISRAELITES! THOSE OLD ORDINANCES HAVE BEEN NAILED TO THE CROSS. MY LORD WAS ALSO ATTACKED FOR HEALING ON THE SABBATH DAY.
Again, you are correct kate. Jesus said that \"it is
LAWFUL to DO good on the Sabbath\" (Matt. 12:12). In CONTRAST, the Old Testament law on the observance of Sabbath
PROHIBITED the DOING of
ANY work on the Sabbath (Jeremiah 17:21-22).
AND I'M SAYING THAT I DO KEEP THE SABBATH. I THINK JESUS IS THE SABBATH IN THE TRUEST SENSE.
When Jesus said, \"Come to me... and I will give you REST...\" he was referring to \"eternal life in the Holy City\" (Rev. 14:13; cf Rev. 21:1-4) for those who \"...BELIEVE in him and shall NOT perish but shall have everlasting life (John 3:16).
HOW DO YOU KNOW JESUS IN A PERSONAL WAY, ED?
I CANNOT know Jesus \"in a personal way\" kate because he is in heaven and I am on earth much as I don't know you or anyone in this board in a \"personal way.\"
But I know you and the other posters in this board by reading your posts. In the SAME manner, I know Jesus by what the Bible says about him or what Jesus himself says about himself as recorded in the Bible.
Jesus says he is a MAN (John 8:40) and the Father is the ONLY true God (John 17:3). That's why I KNOW Jesus is NOT God.
John writes: \"Now by this we KNOW him (Jesus), if we KEEP his COMMANDMENTS. He who says, 'I know him.' and does NOT keep his COMMANDMENTS, is a LIAR, and the TRUTH is NOT in him\" (1 John 2:3-4).
I am \"in UNION\" with Christ in a SPIRITUAL sense since I am his BODY (1 Cor. 12:27) and he is the HEAD. (Col. 1:18).
And since Jesus is the SAVIOR of the BODY or CHURCH (Eph. 5:23) where I am an \"individual member\" (Rom. 12:4-5; 1 Cor. 12:27), I MUST \"endure until the end\" (Matt. 24:13) - end of my natural life or end of the world (2 Peter 3:7, 10).
Ed[/color]
Ed,
At first I thought you might be one of the Oneness Pentacostals, but they believe that Jesus is God, the only God, with the explanation of the Trinity as being the worship of THREE GODS...well,YIKES!!! We are more or less all into idolatry according to that way of thinking.Always amazes me when people think they know what someone else believes.
You said there's no such thing as worshipping a doctrine.
Look up the definitions of worship and I'm sure you can find that many indeed put their particular doctrine or organization ahead of God. To me, that is a form of worship.
I CANNOT know Jesus \"in a personal way\" kate because he is in heaven and I am on earth much as I don't know you or anyone in this board in a \"personal way.\"
But I know you and the other posters in this board by reading your posts. In the SAME manner, I know Jesus by what the Bible says about him or what Jesus himself says about himself as recorded in the Bible.
You haven't had us expose our thoughts and love for you over a six thousand year period, either. If we had that much time, you would know us pretty well. If we loved you enough, to give our lives for you, or sacrifice the life of our child for you, you'd feel a lot closer to knowing us too. What does knowing someone really mean. The idea that you have to physically see, touch, hear someone to actually know them, is false IMO.
When God tells those to depart, that He never knew them, doesn't mean that it's because they were the ones who never physically saw, touched,or heard God.
People live together daily for years and sadly never really know each other, personally. Knowing someone has to do with vulnerability. Jesus became a servant and yeilded death on the cruel cross and it was an act of love.
I'm sorry if you don't feel that personal connection to our Lord. I do.
Paul met the Lord in a vision after Jesus' resurecction, yet Paul speaks of his own love for God.
I am not saying this to try to sound all lovey-dovey, but there are Christians the world over that I love, even tho I've never met them. I'm sure you must love other Christians too....sight unseen ??? Does a man hate his own body? We are the body of Christ....Christ is our HEAD,
I LOVE my HEAD!!!!!
Kat[/color]
Hello Kate
And welcome. You mentioned that Jesus is your true sabbath rest. Can ya show me scripture to back this up? If you cannot find scripture to back this up but find scripture to the contrary, will you turn to the true path? Theres only one way. The scriptures will open the door. Are you knocking?
Kate
Its kinda easy to love your body. Do you love your enemies?
You said there's no such thing as worshipping a doctrine. Look up the definitions of worship and I'm sure you can find that many indeed put their particular doctrine or organization ahead of God. To me, that is a form of worship.
Well, if you want to put it that way, so be it. But when \"one puts his particular doctrine or organization ahead of God,\" that only means that he does NOT love God.
\"For this is the LOVE of God, that we KEEP His COMMANDMENTS. And His COMMANDMENTS are NOT burdensome\" (1 John 5:3).
I CANNOT know Jesus \"in a personal way\" kate because he is in heaven and I am on earth much as I don't know you or anyone in this board in a \"personal way.\"
But I know you and the other posters in this board by reading your posts. In the SAME manner, I know Jesus by what the Bible says about him or what Jesus himself says about himself as recorded in the Bible.
The idea that you have to physically see, touch, hear someone to actually know them, is false IMO.
To \"actually know you\" is DIFFERENT from \"knowing you in a personal way.\" As I said in my earlier post, I CANNOT know Jesus in a \"personal way.\"
But the Bible teaches that to \"actually know Jesus\" is to KEEP his COMMANDMENTS\" (1 John 2:3). \"He who says, 'I know him' and does NOT keep his commandments, is a LIAR, and the TRUTH is NOT in him\" (1 John 2:4).
And of course, one who says, \"I know him in a personal way\" and does NOT obey his teaching is a LIAR, and the TRUTH is NOT in him.
When God tells those to depart, that He never knew them, doesn't mean that it's because they were the ones who never physically saw, touched,or heard God.
It was NOT God who said \"I never knew you. Depart from me\" kate. It was Jesus who said this and Jesus says he is a MAN (John 8:40). Of course, it does not mean that Jesus NEVER knew them because they never physically saw, touched or heard Jesus.
Jesus NEVER knew them because they did NOT obey his doctrine or teaching to \"DO the WILL of the Father in heaven\" (Matt. 7:21).
People live together daily for years and sadly never really know each other, personally.
Then, how can one know Jesus in a \"personal way\" when people who live together for years never really know each other personlly? How do you do it kate?
Knowing someone has to do with vulnerability.
Please explain what you mean kate.
Jesus became a servant and yeilded death on the cruel cross and it was an act of love.
Jesus died on the cross as an \"act of humility and obedience to the point of death\" (Phil. 2:8). This is the mind of Jesus that TRUE Christians are supposed to emulate (Phil. 2:5).
I'm sorry if you don't feel that personal connection to our Lord. I do.
How do you show your personal connection to Jesus kate? Do you BELIEVE what Jesus said to
the Father, \"...that they may know
YOU, the
ONLY true God and Jesus Christ whom YOU have SENT\" (John 17:3)? Do you BELIEVE Jesus when he said that he is a MAN (John 8:40)?
Paul met the Lord in a vision after Jesus' resurecction, yet Paul speaks of his own love for God.
Did apostle Paul love God in a \"personal way?\" NO kate. Paul loved God by OBEYING His COMMANDMENTS.
I am not saying this to try to sound all lovey-dovey, but there are Christians the world over that I love, even tho I've never met them. I'm sure you must love other Christians too....sight unseen ??? Does a man hate his own body? We are the body of Christ....Christ is our HEAD,
I LOVE my HEAD!!!!!
kate, do you know that you sound like a spoiled teenager who says \"I love you\" to his mom and dad and comes home 5 hours past curfew? I'm sad to say that for people in the world, the word \"love\" means NOTHING!
If you TRULY love Jesus, you SHOULD start BELIEVING him and STOP calling him God because he says he is a MAN (John 8:40) and the Father is the ONLY true God (John 17:3).
Ed[/color]
kate, do you know that you sound like a spoiled teenager who says \"I love you\" to his mom and dad and comes home 5 hours past curfew?
Okay, Ed....does this mean the honeymoon is over??? :p
No, Oxy, I can't give you a scripture that says \"Jesus is the Sabbath\", it's a matter of the purpose of the Sabbath(rest) see Matthew 11:28...I'm sure you already know it.
Hebrews chapter 4 speaks of entering His rest. I don't think it 's speaking of a day, because it says it's by faith...it doesn't take any faith to keep the Sabbath in a legalistic way, IMO.
Kate
Its kinda easy to love your body. Do you love your enemies?
I feel that I do, however I feel that I could do better....have that tendency to get angry at the Jeffery Dalmers of the world :( Do you feel that you've reached that level of love that Jesus had??? Do you think anyone has?
Did apostle Paul love God in a \"personal way?\" NO kate. Paul loved God by OBEYING His COMMANDMENTS.
Agreed that Paul loved God and obeyed His commandments, but how do you KNOW he didn't love Him personally? HMMM???
Just wondering...
Kate[/color]
kate, do you know that you sound like a spoiled teenager who says \"I love you\" to his mom and dad and comes home 5 hours past curfew?
Okay, Ed....does this mean the honeymoon is over??? :p
Not to me kate. You see, when you love someone, you must DO the things he says. This was what the Lord Jesus says: \"But why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord' and do NOT do the things I say\" (Luke 6:46). Also, when you love someone, you must NOT be afraid to tell that someone what is right and what is wrong - for his or her own good.
No, Oxy, I can't give you a scripture that says \"Jesus is the Sabbath\", it's a matter of the purpose of the Sabbath(rest) see Matthew 11:28...I'm sure you already know it.
Hebrews chapter 4 speaks of entering His rest. I don't think it 's speaking of a day, because it says it's by faith...it doesn't take any faith to keep the Sabbath in a legalistic way, IMO.[/quoye]
kate, when we talk of OBSERVING the Sabbath, it refers to the seventh day of the week which God COMMANDED the Israelites to observe by NOT doing ANY work.
And when we talk of \"entering His rest\" we refer to Rev. 14:13where it says: \"Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, 'Write: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, that they may REST from their labors, and their works follow them.\"
Did apostle Paul love God in a \"personal way?\" NO kate. Paul loved God by OBEYING His COMMANDMENTS.
Agreed that Paul loved God and obeyed His commandments, but how do you KNOW he didn't love Him personally? HMMM???
Just wondering...
Kate
The same way that you don't know that Paul loved God in a \"personal way\" kate. We only know what is WRITTEN in the Bible kate. Everything else is OPINION or SPECULATION.
Ed[/color]
Hi Kate
As to Matt.11, youll find on page 11 of this thread scriptures explaining when this \"rest\" begins. Can you find scriptures that say this rest with Jesus has already begun?
Also you implied that it doesnt take faith to keep the sabbath legally. Does it take faith to try and keep it illegally?
Also you implied that it doesnt take faith to keep the sabbath legally. Does it take faith to try and keep it illegally?
Romans 13:8-14
I probably didn't imply that it doesn't take faith to keep the Sabbath in a legalistic way....Just said it right out. It does take a resolve to keep your eye on the sun, from sunset to sunset...instead of the SON.
Understand, I don't have a problem with Sabbath keepers.
We live near a college community of SDAs. I've worked with them and for them. Wonderful people, at least the ones I've known and really into the Sabbath keeping, but
I don't agree with them on this point, preferring to be judged by the law of liberty James 2: 8-12
Kate[/color]
Yeah Kate
Me to. THE PERFECT LAW OF LIBERTY. And you are correct. You will be judged by this law.
JAMES 1 [22] But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.[23] For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:[24] For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.[25] But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
The perfect law of liberty. Blessed be the man that be a doer of the work. Work??? Is that a bad word Kate?
JAMES 2 [9] But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. [10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.[11] For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.[12] So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
Do not commit adultry, do not kill (the 10 commandments) and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. Keep ALL 10. Ya practice to break one, your guilty of all, right James? You are a transgressor. Do you keep Gods day of rest Kate (the sabbath) or do you keep mans day of rest?
PSALM 119 [42] So shall I have wherewith to answer him that reproacheth me: for I trust in thy word.[43] And take not the word of truth utterly out of my mouth; for I have hoped in thy judgments.[44] So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever.[45] And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts.[46] I will speak of thy testimonies also before kings, and will not be ashamed.[47] And I will delight myself in thy commandments, which I have loved.
So shall I keep thy law continually AND delight myself in thy commandments and WILL WALK AT LIBERTY. That cant be misinterpreted
JOHN 8 [33] They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? [34] Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. [35] And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. [36] If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
AINT THE WORD OF GOD GREAT KATE
DEUT.13 [3] Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.[4] Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.[5] And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.
You have been redeemed of the house of bondage (sin). So walk after your God, and keep His commandments. Kate, the bondage is sin. Keep His commandments and follow the perfect law of liberty.
Ya got \"fear\" of the Lord Kate
MATTHEW 15 [8] This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. [9] But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Sooo.. who are theses guys?
ISAIAH 29 [13] Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
So who are these people who say they believe in the Lord and honor the Lord with their words but because they "fear not
Hi Kate
Ya got Gods Holy Spirit?
JOHN 14 [15] If ye love me, keep my commandments.[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;[17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.[18] I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.[19] Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.[20] At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.[21] He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
In order to receive the Holy Spirit we must keep Gods 10 commandments. What about the 4th Kate? Or do you think that your someone special? You can ignore the scriptures and recieve the Holy Spirit without first keeping the commandments.
2COR.11[3] But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.[4] For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted,ye might well bear with him.
Be careful. Dont believe what youve been taught by the words of man. \"Many will come in my name\" Believe the scriptures. Dont be decieved.
ACTS 5 [29] Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.[30] The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.[31] Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.[32] And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
The Holy Ghost is given to them that obey. So how do we obey God in order to receive the Holy Spirit?
DEUT.27 [10] Thou shalt therefore obey the voice of the LORD thy God, and do his commandments and his statutes, which I command thee this day.
Obey GOD and do his commandments. The \"voice\". Look into the Day of the Lord scriptures Kate. The \"voice\" will be there.
2 TIM. 3 [14] But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; [15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. [16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Somethin to think about. In the above scripture it says from a child thou has know the holy scriptures that are able to make you wise unto salvation. The only scriptures around when these people were children were the scriptures from the old testament. Dont throw the baby out with the bath water.
Kate you mentioned that you want to be judged by the law of liberty? Heres that law.
REV.14 [9] And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,[10] The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God,which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
above scripture sign – hand - forehead (between the eyes) cup of indignation
below scriptures sign – hand - between thine eyes (forehead) the LORDS LAW
EXOD.13 [9] And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the LORD's law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt.
DEUT.6 [2] That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.[8] And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.[9] And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates
JAMES 5 [7] Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.[8] Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.
Until you receive the early and latter rain? Whats that mean and what must you do to receive these rains? Anything to do with which "mark
Will you sing the song of Moses Kate? Will you defeat the beast?
REVELATION 15 [2] And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and THEM THAT HAD GOTTEN THE VICTORY OVER THE BEAST, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.[3] And they SING THE SONG OF MOSES the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.[4] Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.
The above scripture says that those who do get victory over the beast will "sing the song of Moses
Hi Kate
Sometimes i will go on and on. Its only cause my puter is working good at the time. Most of the time it works real, real slow. Seems to be working well tonight.
PSALMS 119 [109] My soul is continually in my hand: yet do I not forget thy law.[110] The wicked have laid a snare for me: yet I erred not from thy precepts.[111] Thy testimonies have I taken as an heritage for ever: for they are the rejoicing of my heart.[112] I have inclined mine heart to perform thy statutes alway, even unto the end.[113] I hate vain thoughts: but thy law do I love.[114] Thou art my hiding place and my shield: I hope in thy word.[115] Depart from me, ye evildoers: for i will keep the commandments of my God.[116] Uphold me according unto thy word, that I may live: and let me not be ashamed of my hope.
Blessed hope? Depart from me, ye evildoers: for I will keep the commandments of my God. EVEN UNTIL THE END.
MATT.7 [22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Seems there will be many people who will be saying "I believe
1JOHN2 [3] And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.[4] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.[5] But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
oxymoron,
Do you really know God? Do you really keep His commandments?
In Matthew 17:5 we read: \"While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, 'This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased.
Hear him!.\"
Isn't it a COMMANDMENT of God to LISTEN to Jesus? Do you LISTEN to Jesus oxymoron?
Jesus SAID: \"....Therefore, it is
LAWFUL to DO good on a Sabbath\" (Matt. 12:12). Under the Old Testament Law, God PROHIBITED \"doing
ANY work\" (Exo. 20:10; 31:15).
Is driving a taxi on Sabbath to put food on the table \"doing GOOD work\" or not? Is healing the sick on Sabbath \"doing GOOD work\" or not? The apostles \"gathered food on a Sabbath\" (Matt. 12:1).
Jesus did NOT reproach them. But I believe you would, wouldn't you?
Ed[/color]
oxymoron:
So there are a people that say "they believe
Good scripture reference, Ollie.
The whole chapter is good to read. Also, Romans 7:4 makes it pretty clear that we are DEAD to the law by the body of Christ.
Kate
oxymoron:
So there are a people that say "they believe
Hi Kate
May you find what your lookin for.
Do you believe in strenght in numbers?
LUKE 12 [31] But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.[32] Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.
little flock
MATT.7 [13] Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction,and many there be which go in thereat:[14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life,and few there be that find it.
few there be that find it
MATT.7 [21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
In footnotes of the KJB, iniquity = lawlessness. You can find this in 2 THES. 2 verse 7. And the many have come in the name of JESUS saying we need not keep GODS 10 commandments.
LUKE 13 [23] Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,[24] Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.[25] When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:[26] Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.[27] But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
Jesus himself tells us that "the many
Hi Kate
May you find what your lookin for.
Thank you Oxy. I pray we all find whatever God has for us to find. I trust He is directing our paths.
I was reading in 2 Thes and in v 15, Paul tells the people to hold fast to the traditions they had been taught.
I don't think he's speaking of the Mosaic Law, because he says they had been taught by word (preaching/teaching)
or epistle. I believe that would be the New testament writings. He could have easily said the law, but he didn't.
Just a thought.
Kate[/color]
: ollieoxymoron:
So there are a people that say "they believe
Good post, Ollie
Kate
Ollie
You wrote
I get exited over Jesus Christ and God's gift to us through HIm. He is the way, the truth, and the life
No doubt about it.
GALATIANS 3 [23] But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. [24] Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. [25] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. [26] For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. [27] For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. [28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. [29] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
First i wanna say that you will find many scriptures in Galatians that are speakin only of the law of circumcision. In Galatians six short chapters you will find circumcision mentioned 16 times. You will not find the
word "commandments
Do you believe the below covenant has arrived or is for a time in the near future?
HEBREWS 8 [8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: [9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. [10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11] And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12] For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. [13] In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Everytime I bring up scripture proving that christians are to obey God and keep His commandments, I always hear the same argument. The "many
If you still believe this covenant has arrived lets look into \"Behold, the days come\"
HEBREWS 8 [8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: [9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. [10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11] And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12] For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. [13] In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Behold what days come? What happens during those days?
AMOS 9 [13] Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt. [14] And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them. [15] And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the Lord thy God.
The gathering of Gods people to the land promised (verse 15). The 1000yr period of rest.
JEREMIAH 23 [5] Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. [6] In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. [7] Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that they shall no more say, The Lord liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; [8] But, The Lord liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.
Yup. The gathering of Gods people. In a twinkling of an eye.
HEBREWS 8 [10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
"After those days
Am i being shunned by the \"milk drinkers\"?
1 COR. 3 [1] And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. [2] I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. [3] For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
HEBREWS 5 [12] For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. [13] For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. [14] But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
We should be teachers of the word but everyone that uses milk is unskilful in the word. So what is Hebrews 5 saying?
ISAIAH 28 [9] Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.[10] For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:[11] For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.[12] To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
Well, in Hebrews the scripture points out we should be teachers of the Word but we just don't get it, we are still just babes, milk drinkers. In Isaiah we see that those whom God will teach knowledge and whom he shall make to understand doctrine are those who are weaned from the milk. So who are these people that are being spoken of in verse 12? To whom he said this is the rest and the refreshing, but they refused to hear. Rest? Refreshing?
EXODUS 31 [15] Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.[16] Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.[17] It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
Heres a scripture that speaks of a rest and a refreshing.
GOT MILK?
Anyone here believe these NEW TESTAMENT scriptures?
DO YOU WANT ETERNAL LIFE
MATT.19 [16] And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?[17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.[18] He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
DO YOU KNOW GOD
1 JOHN 2 [1] My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: [2] And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. [3] And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. [4] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
DO YOU LOVE GOD
1 JOHN 5 [1] Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. [2] By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. [3] For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
DO YOU WANT GODS HOLY SPIRIT
JOHN 14 [15] If ye love me, keep my commandments.[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;[17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
ARE YOU CHASTENED BY GOD
HEBREWS 12 [6] For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.[7] If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?[8] But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.[9] Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
DEUT.8 [5] Thou shalt also consider in thine heart, that, as a man chasteneth his son, so the LORD thy God chasteneth thee.[6] Therefore thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to fear him.
HAS HEAVEN AND EARTH PASSED – YIKES! WHAT AM I STANDING ON?
MATT.5 [17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.[18] For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
HAVE YOU BEEN TAUGHT DUE TO GRACE WE NEED NOT KEEP GODS COMMANDMENTS
ROMANS 6 [15] What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid
1 JOHN 3 [4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
HAVE YOU BEEN TAUGHT DUE TO FAITH WE NEED NOT KEEP GODS COMMANDMENTS
ROMANS 3 [31] Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
HAVE YOU BEEN TAUGHT "JUST BELIEVE
Im only looking for the truth. Please talk to me.
OxyMoron,
I guess some issues get more response than others on this message board. But, here's what I think regarding observance of the Sabbath.
I have no problem with anyone choosing to observe the Sabbath or parts of the Old Law, as long as no one seeks to be justified by following the law.
Galatians 5
2 Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. 3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. 4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. 5 For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.
I see no prohibition of following the things of Old Law for the right reasons, nor do I see any instruction in the New Testament that the Jewish Christians must discontinue observing the Sabbath, considering that was their custom. But, what I do see, however, is that these things were not to be required for Christians.
Here is a part of the letter that the apostles sent out to address the circumcision issue. Many Jewish Christians were trying to require Gentile obedience of the Old Law, including the requirement that they be circumcised. But, it was decided that these things ought not to be required of Gentiles:
Acts 15
28 For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: 29 that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.
Finally...
Colossians 2
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.
Hi DCR
Acts 15- Page 10
Colossians 2- page 5
Galatians?
The book of Galatians is a book containing 6 very short chapters. In these 6 chapters circumcision is mentioned 16 times. The commandments are not mentioned at all. Yet, those people that wish to do away with GODS commandments use scriptures from Galatians to try and do so. The law of circumcism is one of the carnal ordinances of the law that were nailed to the cross. The "many
Hi DCR
Acts 15- Page 10
Colossians 2- page 5
Galatians?
The book of Galatians is a book containing 6 very short chapters. In these 6 chapters circumcision is mentioned 16 times. The commandments are not mentioned at all. Yet, those people that wish to do away with GODS commandments use scriptures from Galatians to try and do so.
Was circumcision not a commandment, one of God's commandments to Abraham and the children of Israel?
The law of circumcism is one of the carnal ordinances of the law that were nailed to the cross. The "many
When Paul says things like \"we are not under law but under grace\" in Romans, and talks at length about how we're free from law in Galatians, mentioning everything else specifically is no longer necessary. However, if you're looking for something specific about the commandments (the word is used only 22 times in the NIV, btw, old and new testaments combined), there's always Ephesians 2
14For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, 16and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.
btw, if someone chooses to observe the Sabbath to honor God, I have no problem with that. To me, though, I cannot get the idea that we are required to do so today from the scriptures. :shrug: The idea seems to go against the whole thrust of the New Testament.[/color]
DCR
You wrote
(By the way, the phrase \"Ten Commandments\" doesn't actually appear in the text from what I can tell. That is simply how we traditionally refer to them.)
Exodus 34 [28] And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
Deut. 4 [13] And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
Deut. 10 [4] And he wrote on the tables, according to the first writing, the ten commandments, which the Lord spake unto you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly: and the Lord gave them unto me.
Thanks for bringing up Eph.2. I dont think thats been talked about
Ephes. 2 [15] Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Wow! Marc does your bible really use those words you posted? Seems all these new bibles change the words in order to fit whatever doctrine their following. The laws contained in the ordinances were discussed on page 5 in great detail, using the scriptures. So how about lookin at the rest of Eph.2
EPH.2 [8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.[10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
OK, we are saved by grace, it is a gift we really do not deserve. But what are these "good works
The only difference in what the NIV says and the KJV that you posted is that you can understand the NIV.
I don't have much patience with the \"if that translation contradicts what I believe, that translation can't be right\" arguments.
You shouldn't have to go in circles to figure out what the Bible says. What the KJV says is exactly correct, but you don't seem to be understanding it. I would recommend using a Bible that is written in the language you speak rather than one using archaic English. It may help you see more clearly.
If you don't like the NIV, there are other choices.
The reason for this isn't necessarily this particular verse (you seem to be confused here by something about \"contained in\" that doesn't mean what you say it means--when I read it the obvious meaning is that, well, the commandments are part of the ordinances, just like it says), but for the sake of understanding the whole thrust of the Bible. Pick up a modern language version and read through the NT. Get the context, the meaning. Understand the whole thrust of the books and the letters, and the whole transition from Judaism to a Jewish-style Christianity to an inclusive Christianity. Understanding the whole thing will help keep you from getting confused about the meaning of individual verses, as you seem to be doing.
In general, a good rule of thumb is that if it's impossible to get a certain meaning out of a passage unless someone explains it to you that way, that's probably not what it means. And if it is, it's likely not something important enough to build a major doctrine around. God doesn't play games with us; He wants us to follow Him.
I feel bad about posting this, and have edited it over and over again to try to soften what I'm saying. I don't think throwing one scripture against another solves anything, and have not participated in the theology discussions lately because of their tendency toward debate and argument, mostly concerning the same two or three issues. There is a difference in engaging in open discussion in which those involved are trying to come to a sharper understanding and engaging in a battle of words, in which the participants are doing nothing other than trying to prove that they are right.
I shouldn't have posted here to begin with.
DCR
You wrote
(By the way, the phrase \"Ten Commandments\" doesn't actually appear in the text from what I can tell. That is simply how we traditionally refer to them.)
Exodus 34 [28] And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
Deut. 4 [13] And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
Deut. 10 [4] And he wrote on the tables, according to the first writing, the ten commandments, which the Lord spake unto you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly: and the Lord gave them unto me.
OxyMoron,
Oops. You are absolutely right about those passages referring to the \"ten commandments\". I guess I was just looking in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5 and didn't see it there. But, I didn't think about their being referred to as the \"ten commandments\" elsewhere.
Aside from that correction, my point still remains that the Law contained many more commandments than just those ten.
In general, a good rule of thumb is that if it's impossible to get a certain meaning out of a passage unless someone explains it to you that way, that's probably not what it means. And if it is, it's likely not something important enough to build a major doctrine around. God doesn't play games with us; He wants us to follow Him.
:thumbsup:
Very good rule of thumb.
: By Grace Mon Jun 13, 2005 - 00:08:53Boy o bouy
Lets all stay afloat
Has the many been decieved as the bible claims. Will we enter into His rest (Heb.4) or will we be decieved by the spirit of unbelief (Heb.3). Break 1 ya break them all. Right James? The Kingdom, the book of life, are they 1 in the same. No sittin Bull. Do all to stand \"in that day\". How about you Ghandi?
Before we start this, i would like to say i hope by FAITH we will ALL reach the Kingdom. Im not really sure that anyone understands how God will work things out in the end. HE gave us the scriptures. Thats really all we have to work with. I stand corrected. HE will send us a helper. A comforter.
Well? Gods sabbath. Must we keep it?
We can see what God says...
Isaiah 56:1-7
1 Thus saith the Lord, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the Lord, speak, saying, The Lord hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
4 For thus saith the Lord unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
7
Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for
mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
: Hobie Fri May 15, 2026 - 08:42:54We can see what God says...
Isaiah 56:1-7
1 Thus saith the Lord, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the Lord, speak, saying, The Lord hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
4 For thus saith the Lord unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
Hobie, those verses are fine, and I understand why you place importance on the Sabbath.
But here is a question for serious thought.
Suppose there were another Reformation of sorts and Christians worldwide returned to observing the seventh-day Sabbath properly — sundown Friday to sundown Saturday.
Would it then be wrong for Christians to also honor the first day of the week, Sunday?
After all, the first day of the week is the day our risen Lord secured our hope and eternal life through His resurrection. It is also the day the disciples gathered together in the New Testament.
And Jesus said in Mark 2:28 that "the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath." If Christ is Lord of the Sabbath, then surely honoring Him on the day of His resurrection cannot be offensive to God.
So if Yahweh established the seventh day as holy, and Christ brought us new life on the first day, why would it be improper for believers to joyfully honor both?
Not as legalism. Not as bondage. But out of reverence for both the Creator and the risen Savior.