Previously, I have posted a forum on church music, outlining some fundamental Scriptural principles of acceptable church music that pleases God. More often than not, I get accused of LEGALISM for daring to assert these principles and trying to prove them from the Bible! There are professed Christian persons who think there is nothing intrinsically wrong or evil about borrowing tunes from secular pop music in order to evangelize the world or conduct a formal worship service on the Christian Sabbath.
Cranmer's Law:
It hath been found by experience that no matter how decent, intelligent or thoughtful the reasoning of a conservative may be, as an argument with a [LEFTIST calling himself by the specious name of liberal] is advanced, the probability of being accused of 'bigotry', 'hatred' or 'intolerance' approaches 1 (100%).
Cranmer's Law of Church Music: it has been found by experience, that however just, righteous, reasonable, or hermeneutically SOUND and doctrinally orthodox the Scripture-proofs or natural law proofs may be for any given rule or regulation of church music requiring strict sanctity, nobility, gravity, and demureness of style (and even more importantly, strict separation from the world's style of music), If any person shall persist for a sufficiently long duration of time (or longer) in making or accepting such arguments or obeying and enforcing such a rule or regulation, the probability that he will get accused of being judgmental, uncharitable, legalistic, and/or robbing the opponents of their Christian liberty can be made as close to 100% as one pleases!
One of the more serious abuses of church music that are occurring today is that of the introduction of Rock & Roll into the repertoire of Christian music.
It is well known that Rock Music emphasizes the BEAT. It has a lot of syncopation, and the accents fall on every second beat: one TWO three
FOUR one TWO three
FOUR one TWO three
FOUR one TWO three
FOUR ..., but more traditional styles of music: accent is like this:
ONE two THREE four
ONE two THREE four
ONE two THREE four
ONE two THREE four ..., which is also the natural rhythm of the heart.
God Almighty defines music as the Melody.
http://www.av1611.org/cqguide.html:
WHAT IS ROCK MUSIC?
What is the main characteristic of rock music? What makes rock different from other music? Why does rock appeal to the flesh? What is it about rock that is has "taken-over" the music world?
In order to answer that question, let's examine the components of music. Music is composed of three main components; melody, harmony and rhythm. If these ingredients are not present, then it's not music, but noise.
Melody:
Webster's Dictionary defines melody as; 1. Sweetness of sound; music 2. The chief theme of a musical composition. 3. A tune; song (The Grosset Webster Dictionary, p. 372)
Melody is the most prominent part of music. Melody is the theme of the tune. Without the melody line, there is no music. Melody is the horizontal line the notes follow on the music score.
Here's a few quotes from famous musicians on melody:
"Melody is the main thing; harmony is useful only to charm the ear." Joseph Haydn (Wordsworth Dictionary of Musical Quotations, p. 15)
"Three things belong to composing, first of all melody; then again melody; then finally, for the third time, melody." Salomon Jadassohn (Wordsworth Dictionary of Musical Quotations, p. 15)
"Melody is the very essence of music." Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart (Wordsworth Dictionary of Musical Quotations, p. 16)
Harmony:
Webster's Dictionary defines harmony as; Agreeable proportion of sound. A succession of chords. (The Grosset Webster Dictionary, p. 281)
Harmony is when two or more note are played at the same time. Harmony adds depth to the melody line. Harmony is the basis for the formation of chords. Harmony is the vertical line where the notes meet on the music score.
Rhythm:
Our friend, Webster defines rhythm as; The pattern of tones with regard to their relative time value. (The Grosset Webster Dictionary, p. 490)
Rhythm is the movement in music. Without rhythm, music would be one, long continuous sound, or an uncontrollable noise. Rhythm or the beat is the "glue" that holds everything together. The rhythm is an "unseen" but required component of the music score.
WHAT IS DIFFERENT ABOUT ROCK MUSIC?
Because of that, rock is unlike any other music. In other music, the melody is the main component, but in rock – the rhythm or th beat literally takes over the music.
"The rhythm in rock is the dominant part of the sound. The heavy emphasis on the BEAT is what distinguishes rock from every other type of music." (Frank Garlock, Music in the Balance, p. 32)
"Perhaps the most important defining quality of rock and roll is the BEAT, . . . Rock and roll is different from other music primarily because of the BEAT." (Charles Brown, The Art of Rock and Roll, p. 42)
And it is that BEAT that the FLESH loves!
"The sexuality of music is usually referred to in terms of it's rhythm — it is the BEAT that commands a directly PHYSICAL response." (Simon Frith, Sound Effects, Youth, Leisure, and the Politics of Rock 'n' Roll, p. 240)
"Rhythm is the element of music most closely allied to BODY MOVEMENT [fleshly, carnal], to PHYSICAL action. Its simpler patterns when repeated over and over [which is exactly what rock does] can have a hypnotic effect on us". (Joseph Machlis, The Enjoyment of Music, p. 19)
Larry Norman, in his song, "Why Should the Devil Have All the Good Music", sings about the FLESHLY and PHYSICAL response (moves my feet) of the BEAT of rock.
I ain't knocking the hymns,
Just give me a song that has a BEAT.
I ain't knocking the hymns,
Just give me a song that moves my feet
I've talked to hundreds of young people about the satanic and filthy lyrics in secular rock and nearly every one, replies, "I don't listen to the lyrics. I don't care what the lyrics say. It's the BEAT that I get in to".
Donnie Brewer of 1970's groups Grand Funk says:
"We take the kids away from their parents and their environment to where the only reality is the rhythm and the BEAT." (Hart, Lowell Satan's Music Exposed, p.102)
When secular rock-star, Michael Jackson was asked why he did the filthly-sexual, hand gestures on stage, he replied:
"It's the music that COMPELS me to do it. You don't think about it, it just happens. I'M A SLAVE TO THE RHYTHM." (The Evening Star, February 11, 1993, p. A10)
I've had hundreds of CCMers' say to me, "The Bible gives no instructions on the STYLE of music for a Christian to listen to. It's all a matter of preference and culture." I have read many articles and books by CCM advocates, that claim, the Bible gives no instructions on the type of music for a Christian to listen to.
Don Butler, Gospel Music Association executive director
"There is no such thing as 'gospel music'. Every style and form of music can become gospel, whether it's jazz, pop, rock 'n' roll, or rap." (IM Mar/Apr 1991 p. 27)
But "what saith the Lord"? Does the Bible give us any indication to the type of music we should sing? Did the Lord God who made heaven and earth, who created music and sound, who put so much emphasis on music in His Word — did He forget to tell us what is Christian music?
Not hardly. Thank God — He has given us instructions for our music. Thank God — we can BURY "once and for all" the ridiculous LIE that — "the Bible gives no instructions on the type of music for a Christian to listen to. It's all a matter of preference and culture."
Take an harp, go about the city, thou harlot that hast been forgotten; make sweet MELODY, sing many songs, that thou mayest be remembered. Isaiah 23:16
For the LORD shall comfort Zion: he will comfort all her waste places; and he will make her wilderness like Eden, and her desert like the garden of the LORD; joy and gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving, and the voice of MELODY. Isaiah 51:3
And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making MELODY in your heart to the Lord; Ephesians 5:18-19
The Lord God refers to music as — MELODY! According to God — the emphasis of Christian music is the MELODY — not the BEAT! How is it, that the CCM world keeps "parroting" — "the Bible gives no instructions on the type of music for a Christian to listen to. It's all a matter of preference and culture"? Is it because they can NOT read 5th grade English? Or is it — they do NOT care what God says! I've shown many CCMers Ephesians 5:19, and nearly all coolly, reply, "Aw, It don't really mean that". In other words — "I don't care what God says — I'm gonna rock 'n' roll"!
I'm reminded of the words of the Lord Jesus Christ, as he described some people, much like the CCMers, who "having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not?"
17 And when Jesus knew it, he saith unto them, Why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither UNDERSTAND? have ye your heart yet hardened?
18 Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember? Mark 8:17-18
So far we've seen:
1. MELODY is the main theme of music.
2. Rock music emphasizes the BEAT.
3. God defines music as MELODY.
Now are you ready for this? Fasten your seat belt and hold on — here comes a biggee! Most of rock music and CCM does not have ANY MELODY! According to the technical definition of music — rock is NOT even music! According to the Lord God — rock music is NOT music!
NO MELODY = NO MUSIC!
The world famous composer and conductor, Dimitri Tiomkin said of rock music:
"The big beat is deliberately aimed at exciting the listener. . .There is actually very little MELODY, little sense in the lyrics, ONLY RHYTHM [beat]". (Los Angeles Herald-Examiner, Aug., 8, 1965, p. 9J)
Lenny Seidel, a concert pianist and twenty-five year Christian music scholar, gives this definition of both godly music and rock music:
"True godly music will be composed of three elements - all in perfect balance with each other. They are: melody, harmony, and rhythm.
Rock "music" has NO MELODY only fragments of melody endlessly repeated. Since there is no true melody, there is no real harmony. There is ONLY RHYTHM. And rhythm in and of itself is not music." (Leonard J. Seidel, Face the Music – Contemporary Music On Trial, pp. 46-51)
In his classic book, The Understanding of Music, author Charles R. Hoffer, answers our question: How does rock differ from other popular music?:
"How does rock differ from jazz and other popular music? One characteristic is its HEAVY BEAT, which led one critic to define rock as 'music in which the bass drum carries the MELODY?'" (Charles R. Hoffer, The Understanding of Music, p. 503)
Popular author, Martha Bayles, writes in her eye-opening book, "Hole in Our Soul: The Loss of Beauty and Meaning in American Popular Music":
". . . popular music seems terminally hostile to any sound traditionally associated with music." (Martha Bayles, Hole in Our Soul: The Loss of Beauty and Meaning in American Popular Music, p. 4)
Even the secular, satanic rockers the Rolling Stones admit rock is NOT music — but NOISE!
"It's a NOISE we make. That's all. You could he kind and call it music." Mick Jagger, Rolling Stones (Roy Carr, The Rolling Stones - An Illustrated Record, p. 37)
NO MELODY = NOISE!
Rock music emphasizes that HARD, driving BEAT. ...
Here are some scriptural precepts and regulations for Church Music. Yet obedience to these precepts is nowadays routinely called LEGALISM!
http://www.av1611.org/crock/crock1.html:
1. Its message is Scriptural (Col 3:16). Good Christian music must present a message that is true to the Word of God and doctrinally sound.
2. It should lead us to think in Biblical patterns and not be suggestive of evil either in message or in musical arrangement (Phil. 4:8). The text and music should not be cheap or tawdry.
3. It should help us to honor God with our bodies (I Cor. 6:19-20). Music which tends to imitate the effects of godless rock upon the human body or which either destroys or impairs one's hearing is not Christian music.
4. It will maintain a balance between "spirit" and "understanding" (I Cor. 14:15). Music that is primarily emotional froth would not fulfill this requirement.
5. It will contain words that are full of beauty, dignity, reverence and simplicity, words that are worthy of the worship of a holy God (Isa. 6:1-6).
6. It will be free of mental association with worldly musical styles and evidence a holy consecrated character (Rom. 12:2; I Jn. 2:15). Music that seeks to "copy" the worldly approach is not honoring to God.
7. It should be expressive of the peace that accompanies the Christian life, not the clamor, confusion, din, and turmoil of the world (Col. 3:15-16). The various forms of rock music do not contribute to peace of heart but partake of the constant jangle of the sinful world. Christ promises peace to His people (Jn. 14:27).
8. It should be characterized by musical preciseness, finesse of poetic technique and should evidence a structure of harmony and order. God is a God of order and not disorder (I Cor. 14:40).
9. It should promote and accompany a life-style of godliness, modesty, and holy quietness [and the due respect for the Divinely ordained distinction between the sexes], and not modish fashion, suggestive acts, or sexual aggressiveness (1 Pet. 1:16; Tit. 2:11-12).
10. It should not contribute to the temptation of new or weak believers (Rom. 14:13,21; 15:2). Music that reminds newly-saved converts of their old life of sin is to be abhorred and rejected.
I read your list and I don't find those things to be happening in most of the praise songs I've song along to in Church. There are a few whose lyrics are "romantic" and I don't sing along to those, but allow grace for those that don't share my conviction (or preference).
How about you give us a sampling of what you feel comfortable singing along to in order to worship God in a way that edifies your walk with Him? We've heard a LOT about what you hate...how about something you love now?
https://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-music.html
Christian Music - The Beat
There is a line of teaching that says certain drum beats appeal to the flesh and can invite demonic activity. Adherents go so far as to say drum sets (with several drums and cymbals) should not be allowed in a church. Some examples of "evil" drum beats are:
- Syncopation: an unexpected emphasis in the beat, whether continuous or occasional. Syncopation has been used in European music since the Middle Ages (Bach, Handel, Haydn, etc.) and is very common in music styles ranging from ragtime to rock to ska. Whenever a beat appears to come a little too late or early, that's syncopation.
- Pulsating: when a primary beat is in eighth notes or faster. Techno music often has a pulsating beat.
- Polyrhythmic: when the beat consistently includes two different timings (such as 2/4 and 6/8) at the same time. This timing is used in Beethoven's Sixth String Quartet and Mozart's Twelfth Piano Sonata. A variation of the polyrhythmic beat, cross-rhythm, is used extensively in sub-Saharan music. Polyrhythmic beats are also frequently found in jazz.
It is true that drum rhythms have been used in pagan religious ceremonies for millennia. But drums were used in Jewish ceremonies as well (the "timbrel" of Exodus 15:20, 1 Samuel 18:6, and Psalm 81:2 was similar to our tambourine). It is not the beat that draws demonic attention, but the intent of the participants. Ironically, it is the slower, steady drum beats that can cause a listener to drop his guard and fall into a trance-like state. While it is true that church sound technicians the world over have a particular challenge in attenuating the volume of drums, the Bible never cautions against drum beats.
Honestly its not hard. If there is a church where you don't like the style of worship then don't go. Occasionally I don't sing a particular song if the words don't seem quite right but that's very rare.
To be honest I don't read these long cut and pasted posts, I would rather hear what the op likes to sing,not some other persons opinion.
: chosenone Sat Apr 21, 2018 - 15:30:14
Honestly its not hard. If there is a church where you don't like the style of worship then don't go. Occasionally I don't sing a particular song if the words don't seem quite right but that's very rare.
To be honest I don't read these long cut and pasted posts, I would rather hear what the op likes to sing,not some other persons opinion.
Ditto. I did skim it, and everything I saw was subjective opinion imposed on Scripture.
I do note the humorous irony of the opening post, where the writer complains about being accused of "legalism," and then quickly makes his points by citing something called "Cranmer's Law." ::noworries:: rofl
I also am struck by the delightfully appropriate name of one of his/her links: "crock." Indeed, the whole post was basically one big crock. ::disco::
There is no rock music of any kind in heaven.
The question is can rock music deliver the gospel to rock music listeners ?
: James2018 Sat Jul 28, 2018 - 09:45:46
There is no rock music of any kind in heaven.
The question is can rock music deliver the gospel to rock music listeners ?
Well I do think that some hard hitting hard rock with Biblical lyrics is really effective.
Chosenone: For a lot of young ppl, metal and hard rock is a style that come naturally to them.
While these styles might not be best for general congregational singing, it's shouldn't be surprising if Christian young people think that Biblical lyrics set to hard rock and metal is effective, and communicates to people.
: James2018 Sat Jul 28, 2018 - 09:45:46
There is no rock music of any kind in heaven.
How do you know?
: faroukfarouk Sat Jul 28, 2018 - 09:57:48
Chosenone: For a lot of young ppl, metal and hard rock is a style that come naturally to them.
While these styles might not be best for general congregational singing, it's shouldn't be surprising if Christian young people think that Biblical lyrics set to hard rock and metal is effective, and communicates to people.
Young people I have spoken to told me they were first inspired by the words in the music, setting that music to a familiar style made it possible to be heard in the first place.
God speaks in numerous ways. I can appreciate Korn and their evangelistic efforts.
I hope there is no Chris Tomlin music in heaven. He stinks.
Screamo gospel-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yfiovhkpcm4
A friend of mine's kids love this stuff. I can't handle it. Maybe it's my age.
I wonder what Kenneth Sublett thinks about this? ::intherain::
To the OP,
That was a real hoot! 2,354 words (not including the title) of "Law" about how Christian music has to be written. I am still laughing. ::disco:: ::playingguitar:: rofl
There is a science to biblical music. It's in the bible.
There is an art to biblical music. It's in the bible.
Dr. Gene Kim is the newest, prolific biblical scholar on utube.
: James2018 Sat Jul 28, 2018 - 09:45:46
There is no rock music of any kind in heaven.
What kind of music IS in Heaven? Chapters and verses, please.
The question is can rock music deliver the gospel to rock music listeners ?
Sure. It can also attract their attention so the singers can present the Gospel in non-song form during breaks.
: Willie T Sat Jul 28, 2018 - 14:33:29
To the OP,
That was a real hoot! 2,354 words (not including the title) of "Law" about how Christian music has to be written. I am still laughing. ::disco:: ::playingguitar:: rofl
It was indeed a ridiculous crock.
Where did you find the number of words? Surely you did not manually count them!
: NorrinRadd Sat Jul 28, 2018 - 19:32:11
What kind of music IS in Heaven? Chapters and verses, please.
Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying,
Thou art worthy to take the book,
and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain,
and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred,
and tongue, and people, and nation;
: mommydi Sat Jul 28, 2018 - 13:25:06
Screamo gospel-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yfiovhkpcm4
A friend of mine's kids love this stuff. I can't handle it. Maybe it's my age.
Maybe it's because you're not accustomed to it? :)
Some Christian young ppl seem to like it and identify with it, anyway.
: James2018 Sat Jul 28, 2018 - 20:23:48
Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying,
Thou art worthy to take the book,
and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain,
and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred,
and tongue, and people, and nation;
Uh-huh. So? How does that rule out "rock and roll"?
: James2018 Sat Jul 28, 2018 - 20:23:48
Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying,
Thou art worthy to take the book,
and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain,
and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred,
and tongue, and people, and nation;
Great verse! :)
I'm going to hang around the music threads.
I discovered music new to me and it's amazing.
Let's develop better questions and better answers about music.
: NorrinRadd Sun Jul 29, 2018 - 00:45:20
Uh-huh. So? How does that rule out "rock and roll"?
I say this with all sincerity, don't worry about it.
God will explain it to you, probably before you're 70 years old.
Seriously, if we're talk about the most published, distributed, translated,
preached and believed
bible of all time, it's the AV 1611 KJV
Holy Bible.
If we're talking about
biblical music, that's easy, it's only one book.
Never mind the sectarian amateurs. Read the book yourself.
Dr. Ruckman read 6,000 books before his Ph.D.
and then read the KJV Holy Bible 150 times.
Dr. Clayton read it 200 times.
Read their books.
: James2018 Sun Jul 29, 2018 - 10:35:34
I'm going to hang around the music threads.
I discovered music new to me and it's amazing.
Let's develop better questions and better answers about music.
I think one can enjoy the King James Bible AND appreciate hard rock with Biblical lyrics. :)
Amazing reply. Thank you.
I know you do and that is interesting to me
Categorically, hard rock would be war music.
I usually proceed along this line of reasoning face to face
or sometimes in a clinical setting.
The presupposition sets the premise.
The presupposition in this line of reasoning is that the KJV Holy Bible
is the book we're talking about in biblical music.
: James2018 Sun Jul 29, 2018 - 11:44:50
I know you do and that is interesting to me.
We must refine the categories.
Hard rock would be war music.
I think that it's the lyrics than count.
The style of the music and the musicians is more subjective.
Whether the musicians are in neckties and tuxedos for the men, and in backless gowns for the women in a 'classical' setting;
Or whether they are in jeans and leather, plugged earlobes and/or tattoos in a rock setting;
It's all style and subjective.
But if the lyrics are truly Biblical, this is what really counts as Christian music. :)
Yes, seriously, excellent thoughts.
Let's agree that there is the science and language of music
and that the theology of the biblical music is in a bible,
and the bible we're talking about is the KJV Holy Bible.
Biblical music is not subjective., it's obviously objective.
The subject is a book and the topic is biblical music.
: James2018 Sun Jul 29, 2018 - 12:03:36
Yes, seriously, excellent thoughts.
Let's agree that there is the science of the language of music
and the theology of the biblical music we're talking is in a bible
and the bible we're talking about is the KJV Holy Bible.
I do love traditional congregational singing. But hard hitting Biblical lyrics in screamo and hard rock - as Disciple might do it in Battle Lines, for example - is very effective; and musicians with earlobe plugs, tattoos, mascara, etc. are simply part of the style sometimes.
The question is how biblical is rock gospel ?
Have you read the KJV Holy Bible ?
: James2018 Sun Jul 29, 2018 - 12:15:12
The question is how biblical is rock gospel ?
Have you read the KJV Holy Bible ?
You mean the doctrine as opposed to the style?
It would be interesting to define it further.
: faroukfarouk Sun Jul 29, 2018 - 12:18:58
You mean the doctrine as opposed to the style?
It would be interesting to define it further.
I mean the science, language and theology of music in the KJV Holy Bible
Have you read the KJV Holy Bible ?
You don't have to answer.
I think that there is a big difference between hard rock and heavy metal which is largely satanic and the more soft rock pop type music. I just cant imagine the early disciples worshipping to screaming and wearing black etc.
I cant see anything of God in that type of music at all.
: chosenone Sun Jul 29, 2018 - 12:25:25
I think that there is a big difference between hard rock and heavy metal which is largely satanic and the more soft rock pop type music. I just cant imagine the early disciples worshipping to screaming and wearing black etc.
I cant see anything of God in that type of music at all.
Yes, I'd like to know where the line is for spiritual songs.
: chosenone Sun Jul 29, 2018 - 12:25:25
I think that there is a big difference between hard rock and heavy metal which is largely satanic and the more soft rock pop type music. I just cant imagine the early disciples worshipping to screaming and wearing black etc.
I cant see anything of God in that type of music at all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en80q-upISU
I think these lyrics in this style are really effective, especially among young ppl. (Not necessarily for general congregational singing, though.)
: James2018 Sun Jul 29, 2018 - 12:29:11
Yes, I'd like to know where the line is for spiritual songs.
It's a Romans 14, Christian liberty issue, I think, and necessarily subjective in terms of ppl's music style preferences.
: faroukfarouk Sun Jul 29, 2018 - 11:39:01
I think one can enjoy the King James Bible AND appreciate hard rock with Biblical lyrics. :)
As long as we agree. It doesn't matter if we enjoy or even if we believe
the KJV Holy Bible. The KJV Holy Bible is the book we're talking about.
Many people associate themselves with a denomination
and not with the KJV Holy Bible.
Many people have not read the most published, distributed,
translated, preached and believed Holy Bible of all time.
The Kings James Holy Bible is the most published, distributed,
translated, preached and believed book of all time.
Really, no, the topic was salvation and the question
was about the relationship of the law with being saved.
The topic was not music.
: James2018 Sun Jul 29, 2018 - 12:03:36
Yes, seriously, excellent thoughts.
Let's agree that there is the science and language of music
and that the theology of the biblical music is in a bible,
and the bible we're talking about is the KJV Holy Bible.
Biblical music is not subjective., it's obviously subjective.
The subject is a book and the topic is biblical music.
Brilliant. rofl
: chosenone Sun Jul 29, 2018 - 12:25:25
I think that there is a big difference between hard rock and heavy metal which is largely satanic and the more soft rock pop type music. I just cant imagine the early disciples worshipping to screaming and wearing black etc.
I cant see anything of God in that type of music at all.
How would you categorize this (https://youtu.be/ZKwrrZvEsxg) or this (https://youtu.be/ARHhDQ1tKc8) or this (https://youtu.be/uZIK_0bjyKk) or this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSol5oRmK5w)?
: faroukfarouk Sun Jul 29, 2018 - 12:40:21
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en80q-upISU
I think these lyrics in this style are really effective, especially among young ppl. (Not necessarily for general congregational singing, though.)
Agreed on both counts. ::applause::
: James2018 Sun Jul 29, 2018 - 12:29:11
Yes, I'd like to know where the line is for spiritual songs.
Personally, I am among those who take the "spiritual songs" in Col. 3 and Eph. 5 to be related to "singing with the Spirit" in 1 Cor. 14, and to mean songs spontaneously given by the Spirit. I just noticed that, according to Craig Keener, that is similar to the meaning of "new song" in Rev. 5:9 and in the Psalms and elsewhere in the OT.
: James2018 Sun Jul 29, 2018 - 10:50:24
I say this with all sincerity, don't worry about it.
God will explain it to you, probably before you're 70 years old.
Kind of doubtful He'll "explain" to me in less than twelve years what He has not bothered to even hint to me in the past 38 years. ::crackup::
: James2018 Sun Jul 29, 2018 - 12:03:36
Yes, seriously, excellent thoughts.
Let's agree that there is the science and language of music
and that the theology of the biblical music is in a bible,
and the bible we're talking about is the KJV Holy Bible.
Biblical music is not subjective., it's obviously objective.
The subject is a book and the topic is biblical music.
Sorry for the previous typo. I have two graduate degree, but not in music.
I've listened to the Bible Baptists lecture against all rock music.
I've listened to the Charismatics lecture for rock music with biblical lyrics .
The Baptists have much older and developed music colleges.
Charismatics use revised bibles which give precedence to the Vaticanus
and don't know it. State universities have published scientific papers
showing the harmful effects rock music has on plants, animals and people.
I have to mention some thing here.....
My son when in School was a drummer and every one thought he was the
best.......!!! And it seemed that he could have been rich belonging to
any band......... He had a choice to be in any band....But!!!!!!!!! He became saved and thing changed....
The beat.....................................................!
He gave up the drums...... and will only listen to music that is
sensible...... He sure knows a lot !
: grams Fri Aug 03, 2018 - 13:09:02
I have to mention some thing here.....
My son when in School was a drummer and every one thought he was the
best.......!!! And it seemed that he could have been rich belonging to
any band......... He had a choice to be in any band....But!!!!!!!!! He became saved and thing changed....
The beat.....................................................!
He gave up the drums...... and will only listen to music that is
sensible...... He sure knows a lot !
Sometimes it can be a bit loud, right?
I'm sure your son must have talents he can put to good use.
The music that has been called "Rock and Roll" began in black churches. Those who began the musical style were not the ones who named it for they would have and did call it "Holy Ghost Music."
It was said when Elvis and others who recorded at Sun Recording Studio in Memphis that they were playing nig___ music. The bias against this music can be based in racism, not just a musical style.
There was also something to do with New Orleans wake music....
: notreligus Fri Aug 03, 2018 - 16:15:23
The music that has been called "Rock and Roll" began in black churches. Those who began the musical style were not the ones who named it for they would have and did call it "Holy Ghost Music."
It was said when Elvis and others who recorded at Sun Recording Studio in Memphis that they were playing nig___ music. The bias against this music can be based in racism, not just a musical style.
Yes, that's an important fact.
There is inner court music and there is outer court music.
: James2018 Fri Aug 03, 2018 - 16:44:19...
Thread: Let's Make a Play List
Some of my faves are in Post#39 above. ::smile::
: James2018 Fri Aug 03, 2018 - 08:14:53
I have two graduate degree, but not in music.
I've listened to the Bible Baptists lecture against all rock music.
I've listened to the Charismatics lecture for rock music with biblical lyrics .
The Baptists have much older and developed music colleges.
Charismatics use revised bibles which give precedence to the Vaticanus
and don't know it. State universities have published scientific papers
demonstrating the harmful effects rock music has on plants, animals and people.
Does anyone have a serious reply ?
: James2018 Fri Aug 03, 2018 - 18:21:17
Does anyone have a serious reply ?
Yes: I don't give a flaming flatus about any of that.
Seriously.
More for the "play list"...
King of Kings / Jesus, Jesus, Glorious One (https://youtu.be/JKBB8JzEcc4)
I Will Celebrate / When the Spirit of the Lord (https://youtu.be/tSrZxWkbSmY)
The Battle Belongs to the Lord (https://youtu.be/yLZJZsRJIC0)
Adonai (https://youtu.be/St8B99hfKHU)
Salvation Belongs to Our God (https://youtu.be/trplRG-KED0)
: NorrinRadd Fri Aug 03, 2018 - 23:31:27
Yes: I don't give a flaming flatus about any of that.
Seriously.
This is a perfect example of what happens to someone
when they read a revised bible and listen to rock music.
NorrinRadd your reply was not serious and it was not sincere.
: James2018 Sun Aug 05, 2018 - 10:54:17
This is a perfect example of what happens to someone
when they read a revised bible and listen to rock music.
NorrinRadd your reply was not serious and it was not sincere.
I beg to differ. I seriously and sincerely do not care about your hifalutin mumbo-jumbo. The fact that I expressed my disdain in colorful metaphor does not detract from the seriousness and sincerity of the view.
James
1. Several on this board have 8 or more years of study in theology plus 30 or 40 years of reading and living with the word. Don't know why you find in important to continually bring up your education.
2. You have another thread where you contend that there is no such thing as "the bible" (PS I agree with that) but now it seems you are taking the position that the KJV is the bible or at least the best translation. I do not agree with that.
3, Just like there are no set rules for how to do the assembly there are no set rules for what music we can use. I do a house church on Sunday morning where we have traditional church music. On Sunday afternoon I attend a street ministry and some times preach for them where most are folks you don't see in a traditional church. They have the new music often with a rock sound. They now run an addiction program and hundreds of folks have been brought to Christ . Jesus was a lot more concerned about how His followers treated people than what they did in an assembly as long as it was decent and in order.
Example of the songs
"Going to take a freight train all the way to heaven. I don't care when it leaves. Can't you see can't you see what my Jesus has done for me"
Sung to the tune of What that woman has done to me
4. I prefer the traditional church music but can enjoy the other. By the way when Thomas Dorsey wrote and others wrote many of the song now considered traditional they were considered to close to the blues sung in the bars and were rejected.
PS don't tell me I will understand better when I am 70 because I am. lol
: NorrinRadd Sat Aug 04, 2018 - 02:22:20
More for the "play list"...
King of Kings / Jesus, Jesus, Glorious One (https://youtu.be/JKBB8JzEcc4)
I Will Celebrate / When the Spirit of the Lord (https://youtu.be/tSrZxWkbSmY)
The Battle Belongs to the Lord (https://youtu.be/yLZJZsRJIC0)
Adonai (https://youtu.be/St8B99hfKHU)
Salvation Belongs to Our God (https://youtu.be/trplRG-KED0)
No Stryper?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsNhNdnwgZg
: Texas Conservative Tue Aug 07, 2018 - 15:09:29
No Stryper?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsNhNdnwgZg
I never learned to like them as much as Petra.
Not really one of their "praise" songs, but another I like: Judas' Kiss (https://youtu.be/Gx9K4qdCGlY). More of a prayer/lament, maybe.
Oh Mercy Me
One of my biggest objections to newer music besides the JIMB-y songs, is that many local church folks responsible for choosing songs choose songs they like but are not meant for group singing.
Some songs are meant to be heard or to be sung by one person. Just because it is on Christian radio, does not mean it was arranged for corporate singing.
Weird confession time! ::lookaround::
It's not rock and roll, but I used to love the singing group Avalon so much that I bought a new Toyota Avalon just because they were called Avalons. ::noworries:: I don't know much about car makes/models, but since I needed a new one, and I loved Avalon - I bought an Avalon. I listened to Avalon in my Avalon. It turned out to be a very good car. I miss it. ::cryingtears::
My favorite song by Avalon that I listened to hundreds of times while driving my Avalon-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yI2fLt-rLOM
Tex I understand what you are saying most contemporary praise band have very little audience participation.
Church music it meant for the worship of God.
It is supposed to be respectful, humble and to His glory.
It is not meant to be for our pleasure, but for His pleasure.
What it is not meant for is to draw youngsters to church, or to satisfy our desires.
Music is an expression and we can translate our emotions with music.
Rock music has never been and never will be an expression of respect and worship.
It simply is an expression of the wrong type of emotion and it should not be used in church.
: AVZ Tue Aug 07, 2018 - 21:02:30
Church music it meant for the worship of God.
...
It is not meant to be for our pleasure, but for His pleasure.
I'll need a scripture reference for that one, AVZ.
: Texas Conservative Tue Aug 07, 2018 - 18:36:36
One of my biggest objections to newer music besides the JIMB-y songs, is that many local church folks responsible for choosing songs choose songs they like but are not meant for group singing.
Some songs are meant to be heard or to be sung by one person. Just because it is on Christian radio, does not mean it was arranged for corporate singing.
This is true. I sing along with those Petra songs when I'm in my car and only God and the occasional horrified person at a stop-light can hear me. My voice is at least as deep as the "How low can you go?" guy in the "Bada-book bada-boom" commercial. Not designed for that high range. ::frown::
: Johnb Tue Aug 07, 2018 - 20:32:36
Tex I understand what you are saying most contemporary praise band have very little audience participation.
These days, they tend to be very JIMB-y, or to have really bland, repetitive lyrics.
They were better back in the '80s.
: AVZ Tue Aug 07, 2018 - 21:02:30
Church music it meant for the worship of God.
It is also meant for speaking to each other, teaching each other, and admonishing each other -- Col. 3 and Eph. 5.
It is supposed to be respectful, humble and to His glory.
Psa. 95, 98, 149-150, etc. show that loud, exuberant, celebratory music can fit that pattern. Either that, or your pattern is flawed.
It is not meant to be for our pleasure, but for His pleasure.
The two need not be mutually exclusive.
What it is not meant for is to draw youngsters to church, or to satisfy our desires.
Chapter and verse, please, to show that including such goals is ungodly.
Music is an expression and we can translate our emotions with music.
Rock music has never been and never will be an expression of respect and worship.
It simply is an expression of the wrong type of emotion and it should not be used in church.
Sorry you're so spiritually constipated. In my case, nothing turns my thoughts toward God and Scripture better than a few Petra songs.
I think I will write some contemporary Christian music, I think I will write some contemporary Christian music, I think I will write some contemporary Christian music, I think I will write some contemporary Christian music.
Sorry I could not resist.
[[[[[[[[[[Quote from: grams on Fri Aug 03, 2018 - 13:09:02
I have to mention some thing here.....
My son when in School was a drummer and every one thought he was the
best.......!!! And it seemed that he could have been rich belonging to
any band......... He had a choice to be in any band....But!!!!!!!!! He became saved and thing changed....
The beat........................................ .............!
He gave up the drums...... and will only listen to music that is
sensible...... He sure knows a lot !]]]]]]]]]]]]
______________________________________________________________
Sometimes it can be a bit loud, right?
I'm sure your son must have talents he can put to good use.
_____________________________________________________________
Yes !!!! 8 children and they know what not to listen to ..........
: grams Wed Aug 08, 2018 - 07:23:39
[[[[[[[[[[Quote from: grams on Fri Aug 03, 2018 - 13:09:02
I have to mention some thing here.....
My son when in School was a drummer and every one thought he was the
best.......!!! And it seemed that he could have been rich belonging to
any band......... He had a choice to be in any band....But!!!!!!!!! He became saved and thing changed....
The beat........................................ .............!
He gave up the drums...... and will only listen to music that is
sensible...... He sure knows a lot !]]]]]]]]]]]]
______________________________________________________________
Sometimes it can be a bit loud, right?
I'm sure your son must have talents he can put to good use.
_____________________________________________________________
Yes !!!! 8 children and they know what not to listen to ..........
Sounds like he knows what he's doing ::smile::
Yes my son does.....
And if you listen to music with a beat, ,,,, what is your body doing ?????
That is the point in the rock and roll music.
As I see things going on in movies were there are bands.
I am now glad my son changed and knows the truth.
It took me longer to understand....... This.........
That's not Christian !
I am sure positive GOD would not like for us to listen to this.. !!!!!!!
: grams Thu Aug 09, 2018 - 11:45:33
Yes my son does.....
And if you listen to music with a beat, ,,,, what is your body doing ?????
If it's something like the Petra songs I linked, my body is clapping or raising its hands. Maybe bobbing around a bit, which is as close as I generally get to "dancing."
You know -- The kind of stuff encouraged in Psa. 149-150.
: NorrinRadd Sun Aug 12, 2018 - 02:10:55
If it's something like the Petra songs I linked, my body is clapping or raising its hands. Maybe bobbing around a bit, which is as close as I generally get to "dancing."
You know -- The kind of stuff encouraged in Psa. 149-150.
Some ppl do like hard rock with good Biblical lyrics.
(Though whether it's suitable for a general congregation in church is another matter.)
: faroukfarouk Sun Aug 12, 2018 - 12:50:47
Some ppl do like hard rock with good Biblical lyrics.
(Though whether it's suitable for a general congregation in church is another matter.)
Yeah, that's true. :-/ Some of the ones I linked are more usable that way than others.
Take Me In (https://youtu.be/4G9P-qWKjvg) isn't particularly "rocky," but I really like it.
One thing I like about a lot of Petra's praise songs is the words and imagery drawn from Scripture. But even that can go awry. I remember back in the day, we used to sing a song called, "Blow a Trumpet in Zion." It was not a "rock" style song, but did have a very upbeat tempo. It was pleasing to sing. But then I realized the lyrics were taken completely out of context. I mean really, does the celebratory tone of this (https://youtu.be/LHY0BRNWUuE) really fit the context of the first half of Joel 2?
Well, my time for music was in the 1950's.
And it was rock and roll......
Now living with my son........... I have learned that's not good...
So....... no more for me and the family of 11 of us......
: grams Tue Aug 14, 2018 - 10:20:14
Well, my time for music was in the 1950's.
And it was rock and roll......
Now living with my son........... I have learned that's not good...
So....... no more for me and the family of 11 of us......
THAT is going to take a bit of explanation. (Other than just "the fear of a beat". About the only instruments they had in the ancient times were percussion. Moses' sister even led a dance troupe, playing the tambourine.)
Many of us really let the Legalism of the Victorian Era warp our view of God. Even if we never lived in those times.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx9RXPFdAN0
Some of you guys might like to check out the Rev's Garth Hewitt: http://www.garthhewitt.org/biog/ (http://www.garthhewitt.org/biog/)
Many years ago Garth felt called to enter the ministry of Christ and joined Greenbelt https://www.greenbelt.org.uk/artists/garth-hewitt/
He's reached many people in the secular music business and brought many to Christ through his music ministry. Incidentally his brother Gavin Hewitt, also a born again Christian is a war corresepondent for the BBC. Both brothers became Christians in their teens. They have a fantastic ministry reaching out through broadcasting to open air rock concerts. I have huge admiration for them. ::smile::
I don't like rock n roll music in church, but I do like many (secular) rock bands in my leisure time or when driving.
I think the bad music started in my time , in the 1930's.....
And just before that time the radio, which started it all over..
I think it's the lyrics which count for a lot.
Some styles of music are probably less suited for general congregational use.
The beat ,,,,,,,,,,, it gets the body moving in a bad way, and the
mind will sooner or later join it.......... no good ........
Biblical Singing : David the sweet psalmist of Israel Psalm 40:1-3~"I waited patiently for the LORD; and he inclined unto me, and heard my cry. He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my goings. And he hath put a new song in my mouth, even praise unto our God: many shall see it, and fear, and shall trust in the LORD."
1. God made your vocal cords and the ability to switch from talking to melodic resonating.
2. The devil has always tried to ape the worship of Jehovah, and he has done so with music.
3. The world obsesses about music, but its music at best is hopeless and/or meaningless
4. Musical is powerful (called the language of the soul), and the best example is David playing skillfully for King Saul to drive evil spirits away and refresh him (I Sam 16:14-23).
5. The first song in the Bible is the song of Moses (Exodus 15:1-19), where Miriam led the women of Israel in dancing to these ferocious and glorious words of praise (Ex 15:20-21).
6. The same song with some additions and modifications is also the last song (Rev 15:3-4).
7. David, the man after God's own heart, was God's musician by numerous abilities, accomplishments, and influences: at the least, he wrote lyrics, organized choirs and orchestras, and invented musical instruments (Amos 6:5; I Chron 23:5; II Chr 29:26; etc.).
8. He established constant singing in the house of the LORD (I Chr 6:31-33; 9:33; 16:36-43).
9. Consider the intensity and variety when they moved the Ark the first time (I Chron 13:8).
10. Consider moving it the second time (I Chron 15:16,19-22,24,27-28; I Chron 16:7,36-43).
11. Consider the size of the choir David organized and arranged for singing (I Chron 23:5,30).
12. Consider the emphasis in David's psalms (Ps 47:6-7; 92:1; 104:33; 146:2; 147:1; etc., etc.).
13. David loved new songs, for they are creative worship (Ps 33:2; 96:1; 98:1; 144:9; 149:1).
14. David wanted skilful singing and playing, and he wanted it loud (Psalm 33:3; 98:4; 150:5).
15. David wanted singing with understanding, just like Paul required (Ps 47:7; I Cor 14:14-15). 16. Solomon dedicated the temple by his father David's example (II Chron 5:11-14; 7:6; 8:14).
17. They were still following David 340 (II Chr 29:25-30) and 440 years later (II Chron 35:15).
18. The Son of David, our Lord Jesus Christ, sang as well, for it was prophesied of Him and fulfilled by Him (Psalm 22:22; Heb 2:12; Matt 26:30; Mark 14:26).
19. We Gentiles are brought right beside David by Paul's use of Psalm 18:49 in Romans 15:9.
20. The most important part of singing is the words and the least important the musical skill of your singing, for the melody that counts most is the one in your heart (Eph 5:19; Col 3:16).
21. The two most definitive verses about N.T. singing teach these things (Eph 5:19; Col 3:16): The doctrinal words are important by virtue of speaking, teaching, and admonishing. There are three kinds of lyrical compositions used – psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs. The musical component for the New Testament is singing, only singing, not playing. The basis and foundation of singing are abundant grace and Christ's word and wisdom. The origin and source of the melody that matters most is a heart prepared and directed. The further and ultimate object and purpose is praise to the Lord as the goal of singing.
22. When should you sing? The Bible says to sing psalms when you are merry (James 5:13).
23. When should you sing? The Bible describes Paul singing when very afflicted (Acts 16:25).
24. By considering both of the above, there is no time not to sing, so sing in spite of feelings or circumstances; the only effect either should have might be the kind of words or melody.
25. The sacrifices of purified sons of Levi include singing His praise (Mal 3:3-4; Heb 13:15).
26. Singing in church assemblies should be appreciated, esteemed, and participated in with great love and zeal for the Lord and saints. It is a congregational ordinance when together.
27. Much more could be said, has been said, and shall be said. So grab a hymnal and sing UNTO THE LORD based on pure doctrine, or at least as much as possible.
I love being among Christians happily rejoicing the Lord, free in spirit and body raising their hands in worship and in praise and if that means a musician is playing out chords and singing along, that is great worship wherever one is!
I think though there is a time and a place in church when we need as a congregation to be quiet in reverence and awe. During our church's Eucharist the band plays music from the Taizé community and my friend with her beautiful violin from Cremona will play solo...and then that time of worship in Communion becomes deeply moving; very special, and personal.
I love to praise and worship music in my church, the praise is up-beat, and we can dance hard (like David did), and worship is wonderful, I just soak in the presence of God. Psalms talks about loud cymbals and dancing like crazy, and it also talks about raising hands and laying before the Lord. The music is not the issue as much as what you are singing, and the spirit behind the music.
: Dulcie Thu Sep 13, 2018 - 08:16:02
I think though there is a time and a place in church when we need as a congregation to be quiet in reverence and awe.
Good point!
: faroukfarouk Fri Sep 14, 2018 - 05:32:09
Good point!
Actually I do like rock, but not hard rock which I'm not sure is applicable to church worship
if the congregation can't hear lyrics clearly! Then hard rock in worshipful praise just becomes a meaningless mish-mash of twangy cords and crashing cymbols and drums. Except it's the uplifting spiritual side to the music that counts, raising a person's heart to worship Jesus in fullness and in freedom of one's own self-expression; in the raising of the hands and in the swelling of our hearts. And when soft percussion comes in, then it will move people to dance like David did because there is worship in graceful dance if only we can free ourselves of shyness and move with the Spirit of God!
I'm a highly skilled musician; I excel when when I'm really deep, deep into my instrument - in this case my vintage 1959 Gibson Les Paul - and yet I have to be sensitive to our peoples' shift of mood when the Holy Spirit comes to move among the congregation. You see, half the time it's not really to do with volume in playing so loud, hammering out the strings with my right hand, but I can flick-finger when I'm playing quick things on the guitar's neck - and continue into playing a lot of notes in a quick and chorderly way. This means as a musician I find it's actually very easy to move between single notes and chords and little bits of chords and little drops and runs and all sorts of things on an electric; you can bend the strings to move notes a little bit, imitating another sound that matches the congregation's singing in the Spirit... in all, you can play really complicated chords, yet I use a pedal to swell a note in like it's being bowed on a cello and that which I've tried to explain is how I am in being sensitive to the Holy Spirit's moving during church worship.
During a service it takes a really sensitive musician to quieten down their playing...drifting down from rising notes into falling notes when people are moved to utter spiritual tongues in worship and in praise. And that is how I love leading our congregation instead of believing that rock and roll has to dominate church worship. I like being seen as a cool cat, rather than one who belts out the chords. That would much rather be at an open air festival. Don't know if I made sense here... kinda get carried away. ::blush::
: Dulcie Sat Sep 15, 2018 - 09:34:57
Actually I do like rock, but not hard rock which I'm not sure is applicable to church worship if the congregation can't hear lyrics clearly! Then hard rock in worshipful praise just becomes a meaningless mish-mash of twangy cords and crashing cymbols and drums. Except it's the uplifting spiritual side to the music that counts, raising a person's heart to worship Jesus in fullness and in freedom of one's own self-expression; in the raising of the hands and in the swelling of our hearts. And when soft percussion comes in, then it will move people to dance like David did because there is worship in graceful dance if only we can free ourselves of shyness and move with the Spirit of God!
I'm a highly skilled musician; I excel when when I'm really deep, deep into my instrument - in this case my vintage 1959 Gibson Les Paul - and yet I have to be sensitive to our peoples' shift of mood when the Holy Spirit comes to move among the congregation. You see, half the time it's not really to do with volume in playing so loud, hammering out the strings with my right hand, but I can flick-finger when I'm playing quick things on the guitar's neck - and continue into playing a lot of notes in a quick and chorderly way. This means as a musician I find it's actually very easy to move between single notes and chords and little bits of chords and little drops and runs and all sorts of things on an electric; you can bend the strings to move notes a little bit, imitating another sound that matches the congregation's singing in the Spirit... in all, you can play really complicated chords, yet I use a pedal to swell a note in like it's being bowed on a cello and that which I've tried to explain is how I am in being sensitive to the Holy Spirit's moving during church worship.
During a service it takes a really sensitive musician to quieten down their playing...drifting down from rising notes into falling notes when people are moved to utter spiritual tongues in worship and in praise. And that is how I love leading our congregation instead of believing that rock and roll has to dominate church worship. I like being seen as a cool cat, rather than one who belts out the chords. That would much rather be at an open air festival. Don't know if I made sense here... kinda get carried away. ::blush::
My wife and I went to some meetings hoping to enjoy some Biblical sermons and there was electronic music that was so loud that my wife got a headache and had to leave the auditorium.
Like you say, good to keep the volume down.
I'm sure you are skilled. (Maybe you could have become a professional musician if you had not become a jeweler...)
: faroukfarouk Sat Sep 15, 2018 - 09:40:35
My wife and I went to some meetings hoping to enjoy some Biblical sermons and there was electronic music that was so loud that my wife got a headache and had to leave the auditorium.
Like you say, good to keep the volume down.
I'm sure you are skilled. (Maybe you could have become a professional musician if you had not become a jeweler...)
Been playing since teaching myself at 12...even when heavily preggy at 14, was strumming my acoustic which is such a beautiful friendly thing. It's probably Peg is so musical now. ::smile:: But the sight of my Grandmother's sparkling jewels attracted me to learn this craft, whereas becoming a musician would not guarantee a regular income. When one is alone and trying to figure a career, the only option was to make jewellery a business. At 16 I was already selling semiprecious stone bracelets, jotting down every sale and maxing out a profit. My Aunt said stick to jewellery and make it a worthwile career, so I did.
: Dulcie Sat Sep 15, 2018 - 10:11:37
Been playing since teaching myself at 12...even when heavily preggy at 14, was strumming my acoustic which is such a beautiful friendly thing. It's probably Peg is so musical now. ::smile:: But the sight of my Grandmother's sparkling jewels attracted me to learn this craft, whereas becoming a musician would not guarantee a regular income. When one is alone and trying to figure a career, the only option was to make jewellery a business. At 16 I was already selling semiprecious stone bracelets, jotting down every sale and maxing out a profit. My Aunt said stick to jewellery and make it a worthwile career, so I did.
Sounds like you were around your aunt a lot in those days.
Another thing about being a full time musician is that you are on the road a lot; and this can impact young children.
Yes, some older ladies do wear a lot of jewelry; and have multiples earring in a row, etc. Seems like this set you thinking.
: faroukfarouk Sat Sep 15, 2018 - 10:15:29
Sounds like you were around your aunt a lot in those days.
Another thing about being a full time musician is that you are on the road a lot; and this can impact young children.
Yes, some older ladies do wear a lot of jewelry; and have multiple earring in a row, etc. Seems like this set you thinking.
My aunt watched over me and helped when Peggy was young and sometimes difficult like all young ones. Without my two aunts I'd never have coped. Being a young mother to a child is a repellent to guys looking for a date. Not that I was at all interested in a romantic way. Never have been, and now I feel quite content just being single. Having Peg close to me is so lovely because she says she wants to be. Whereas not all children feel the same.
Wearing lots of jewellery, I'm a walking advertisement for my business, but my ears are thankfully left whole except for my lobes...is enough for me. I like seeing older ladies showing off their jewellery. They're reached a certain age and collected beautiful pieces down the years; a kind of restrained elegance of good taste and doubtless well invested since even Rolex watches have increased in value. I love a nice timepiece, too.