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(Cut and Paste) "....if I have the ability to lose my salvation over comitting adultery..."  

It was not because you were sinless that God gave you his free gift of salvation.  He chose you because He loves you and He has a wonderful plan for your life!  "For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers."  Romans 8:29.  Sometimes we get in His way while He is working in us, but nevertheless He WILL work in us.  Phil 1:6, "....He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus."  Hang in there; don't give up; confess your sins and return to God. Isa 44:22, "I have swept away your offenses like a cloud, your sins like the morning mist. Return to me, for I have redeemed you."

Ben

Quote from: eddmon on Thu Sep 23, 2010 - 11:42:50
hopefofrfuture

Thankfulldad seem to preach another gospel.

I only preach of Jesus and the cross of which He died for us.  He gave us His Spirit, which is far greater then the law...the law brings judgement...His Spirit brings faith, hope & love.

Only Trust Jesus...that is the gospel of God's Word!

Quote from: eddmon on Thu Sep 23, 2010 - 11:42:50Yes you are correct we can never be perfect but we are to desire to be like Him. This is where the difference lies.

You may desire to be like Him (good luck)...I desire to be with Him

Quote from: Thankfulldad on Thu Sep 23, 2010 - 11:57:00

Quote from: eddmon on Thu Sep 23, 2010 - 11:42:50Yes you are correct we can never be perfect but we are to desire to be like Him. This is where the difference lies.

You may desire to be like Him (good luck)...I desire to be with Him

Ask most people (wether they be even non-believers or not) if they want to be with God, heaven and have eternal life. They will mostly all say yes.

Now ask this same question if they want to be and live like Him and do what he commanded us to do in this life. That same many will become very, very, very few indeed.

Quote from: eddmon on Thu Sep 23, 2010 - 12:15:58

Quote from: Thankfulldad on Thu Sep 23, 2010 - 11:57:00

Quote from: eddmon on Thu Sep 23, 2010 - 11:42:50Yes you are correct we can never be perfect but we are to desire to be like Him. This is where the difference lies.

You may desire to be like Him (good luck)...I desire to be with Him

Ask most people (wether they be even non-believers or not) if they want to be with God, heaven and have eternal life. They will mostly all say yes.

Now ask this same question if they want to be and live like Him and do what he commanded us to do in this life. That same many will become very, very, very few indeed.

I am talking about the here and now:

Jesus did what He did for us...and now gives us His Spirit so we can be with Him.  If you are striving to be like Him; you will never know Him.

Brother in the Lord,

First, congratulations on Salvation! Happy Birthday :)

Next, I'm so sorry you are having to go through this situation. I know for a fact that you know the answers to the questions you are asking because you read God's Word. There's nothing else to it. It is what He says it is. Do not let your heart be troubled. Give your burdens to Him and take comfort in knowing that He loves you. Seek Him first and He will direct your paths.

And I AM praying for you.

Love your sister in Christ Jesus,
Jami

It appears to me that several people here need to read Romans chapter 8.  You may recall a couple of passages from that chapter like verse 1, "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus..."  No condemnation?  Of course this doesn't mean adultery, as that is the unforgivable sin, and therefore we will suffer condemnation right?  Or maybe you have read verse 28 at some time, "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." No wait just a minute, surely we can't SIN and expect God to use it for His purposes and our good?  God simply cannot do that because He isn't all powerful is He?  He really didn't mean all things when He said all things did He?   

Lastly some of us are familiar with verse 38 and 39 which reads, "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."  Of course adultery can and does separate us so I guess it is straight to hell for any and all adulterers.

Ben

To answer the intial question: yes, a Christian is quite capable of committing adultery. I like to believe this is why we need to STAY in the Word. Not just read it here or there, but stay in, meditate on it (God's word tells us to do that) and live by it. Because none of us are too far from going back to our sinner life. Yes, we have the Holy Spirit in us, but we are still in flesh nonetheless. Which is why Paul tells us to do things of the Spirit, not of the flesh. We make a choice to abide by the Spirit and a choice to give in to our flesh. We have to recognize what is going to make us give in to our flesh and get away from whatever it is immediately!!! Hard, sometimes depending on what's going on in your life or if you simply don't want to face the truth - take your pick,

Now, what will happen? Well, the Bible tells us that adulterers will not see the kingdom. Now, I have committed adultery being a Christian. Do I believe I will see God? Yes, and that is because I have repented. Now, that is something I have peace with. But I knew I had to repent. I could not continue to commit adultery and just hope that I will see God. Nah, doesn't work like that. That's with anything. We have to repent and by our faith and our believe in Christ live holy. And stay in the Word (I'm telling myself this too believe me!) and keep it as our guide so that we can use it at ALL times.

This is course coming from me :)

eddmom:

I was wondering where in your 'gospel' gives you the green light to be so condescending and rude to others?

Its perfectly okay to state your disagreement, but my 'gospel' tells me there are good ways and bad ways of doing just that.  I don't think I need to quote that for you, because I'm sure you aware of its presence as well.

For example, we truly do not have enough information regarding hopeforfuture to be making assumptions.  She is getting counseling, and she has people helping her get into the nuts and bolts of her circumstance.  She also seems to be struggling with a lot, and adding to her load shouldn't be a priority at this point.

I have seen the sites you linked to before, and those articles are very negligent to help in others areas that need to be addressed within that relationship.   Attempting to heap on additional guilt when you have no answers - according to the websites you listed, and I did search for it - for other huge issues going on in that household?  Why would that be beneficial at this point?  The bible also states there are seasons for everything.

The journey has started for her, and I'm very glad that she has sought out counsel.  We have to show a bit of hope, grace and encouragement with counsel.  Telling others they read other 'gospels' is insulting and rude.  Where in scripture does it give you the okay for doing that to others?  I'm truly curious about that part.  I'm sorry but it doesn't show a humble spirit that God asks us to show even to 'enemies'.

You have a right to your opinions and views on scripture.  Some of what you say may even applicable, but when you throw condensation, rudeness, lack of grace and humility?  Scripture is very clear that all others will hear is a gong.  I'm sure that is not your intention, but you seriously need to look at your approach. 

I'm sorry that I have only read the first page of this thread, so bear that in mind. I hope I'm not being redundant, so here goes.

My response to the OP is that I'm sorry for all your pain & what you've been through. Your ex sounds like a real operator & she sure "did you wrong".

However, your statement that we, as Christians, sin now and again is way off base. Now and again, sometimes, here and there??  Try every single day. Have you EVER looked at a woman with lust, even for an instant? If so, we all know what Jesus Himself said about that one. Have you ever told a little white lie, eaten too much (gluttony), been selfish, had envious thoughts, felt superior or judgmental to others, to name a few??  We ALL sin every single day. God views ALL sin as the same. Its hard for our minds to wrap around this one, but God loves the filthiest, dirtiest sinner you've ever seen just as much as He loves you & all the rest of us here.

So, yeah, even your ex wife can be forgiven and receive grace if she repents before the Lord. There are not just second chances for us...there are 70 times 7 chances for us every single day and I thank God for that.

IamStefanie

I found your post/comment interesting.

Please is it possible to go further and explain to us how (or went about) you repented from your adultery?

NOTE: Please I only ask this for my (our) admonition/growth as we are all need to do.

HannahT

Note: My replies are in black (non-red)

I was wondering where in your 'gospel' gives you the green light to be so condescending and rude to others?

I was not being condescending and rude. And certainly that was not my intension. If it came across (or read) that way to someone else to that I can only apologise.

Its perfectly okay to state your disagreement, but my 'gospel' tells me there are good ways and bad ways of doing just that.  I don't think I need to quote that for you, because I'm sure you aware of its presence as well.

The intensions of my post/comments were not about who is right or wrong. This was not about disagreements but about TRUTH, which is only contained in the Holy Scriptures. All I did was make comments by reiterating what the Holy Scriptures tell/command us by quoting Holy Scriptures (God's mind) on what He says on the issues of life.

For example, we truly do not have enough information regarding hopeforfuture to be making assumptions.  She is getting counseling, and she has people helping her get into the nuts and bolts of her circumstance.  She also seems to be struggling with a lot, and adding to her load shouldn't be a priority at this point.

I agree with you in part to what you said "we truly do not have enough information regarding hopeforfuture to be making assumptions

QuoteIts perfectly okay to state your disagreement, but my 'gospel' tells me there are good ways and bad ways of doing just that.  I don't think I need to quote that for you, because I'm sure you aware of its presence as well.

The intensions of my post/comments were not about who is right or wrong. This was not about disagreements but about TRUTH, which is only contained in the Holy Scriptures. All I did was make comments by reiterating what the Holy Scriptures tell/command us by quoting Holy Scriptures (God's mind) on what He says on the issues of life.

Your contradicting yourself.  Your claiming you write for the truth, and they are not.  I'm sure if you go back to the dictionary you are using?  It will show you its called disagreements.  That is the word I used.

As far as the rest of what you said?

You are correct that God knows both sides of this story, and she has support system in place helping her work through this tragic part of her life.  The counsel in 'real life' is taking that into account, and you seem to be questioning their approach without having inside knowledge. 

I assume by what you are saying is her counsel - in your opinion - isn't heaping enough information on her at this point.  Information overload isn't always the best course of action, and helping her take this journey step by step should be the priority.

Diversion doesn't help the credibility in your statements.

1)  I never hinted that there was a season for sin - you know that as well.
2)  I stated that the site was neglectful on other HUGE factors in her circumstance, and no where on those sites did they ever approach it.  That's a far cry from me being able to handle the 'truth'.
3) From what I have seen and read from her stories - which I guess you have chosen to ignore - she seems to be 'working' towards the things you mentioned. 

She just doesn't seem to be doing it the way you want her to.  That seems to be your issue more than anything else. 

You see God would also wish for every aspect of this marriage to be addressed, and healed.  You seem to be only concentrating on one aspect, and you can't deal with the 'the whole' when you do that.

Quote from: HannahT on Wed Oct 06, 2010 - 08:45:10

QuoteIts perfectly okay to state your disagreement, but my 'gospel' tells me there are good ways and bad ways of doing just that.  I don't think I need to quote that for you, because I'm sure you aware of its presence as well.

The intensions of my post/comments were not about who is right or wrong. This was not about disagreements but about TRUTH, which is only contained in the Holy Scriptures. All I did was make comments by reiterating what the Holy Scriptures tell/command us by quoting Holy Scriptures (God's mind) on what He says on the issues of life.

Your contradicting yourself.  Your claiming you write for the truth, and they are not.  I'm sure if you go back to the dictionary you are using?  It will show you its called disagreements.  That is the word I used.

As far as the rest of what you said?

You are correct that God knows both sides of this story, and she has support system in place helping her work through this tragic part of her life.  The counsel in 'real life' is taking that into account, and you seem to be questioning their approach without having inside knowledge.  

I assume by what you are saying is her counsel - in your opinion - isn't heaping enough information on her at this point.  Information overload isn't always the best course of action, and helping her take this journey step by step should be the priority.

Diversion doesn't help the credibility in your statements.

1)  I never hinted that there was a season for sin - you know that as well.
2)  I stated that the site was neglectful on other HUGE factors in her circumstance, and no where on those sites did they ever approach it.  That's a far cry from me being able to handle the 'truth'.
3) From what I have seen and read from her stories - which I guess you have chosen to ignore - she seems to be 'working' towards the things you mentioned.  

She just doesn't seem to be doing it the way you want her to.  That seems to be your issue more than anything else.  

You see God would also wish for every aspect of this marriage to be addressed, and healed.  You seem to be only concentrating on one aspect, and you can't deal with the 'the whole' when you do that.

It's amazing how you pick just one paragraph of my post to drive in your views or supposed points. I do not believe I contradicted myself. And you seem to pickwords that are very, very irrelevant to the matter/cause at hand, which is in addressing a sin issue e.g. your pointing on the difference/meanings between the words "disagreements" and "truth". The only notion of TRUTH is Christ and His Holy Scriptures. Nothing else matters in regards to dealing with sin. We humans are the ones that have disagreements. God's holy words do not have disagreements when in the case of addressing sin. In regards to sin God's word is final.

So please answer me this how can someone who pulls out from scripture what God clearly says about certain sins (or sins in general) be a DIVERSION?

Now if we are having theologocal debates, now that is different has people have diffrent views hence there might be disagreements e.g. denominational views, arminians, calvinists etc. But I can  surely assure you regardless of denomination we all will surely agree that ADULTERY is a grevious sin and is to be fixed immediately as God as directed.


What I addressed in using the dictionary was to highlight and point out that the issues of life can be anything from temptations, trials, persecutions etc. And the scripture clearly tells us that temptations are a matter of saying "NO" or "YES" to temptations that lead us to sin. Please care to read the synoptic gospels of when satan tempted Christ our Lord in the wilderness. What happened in the wilderness were temptations/allurements from satan to the Son of God to disobey and sin. Satan started his assault e.g. persecution, trials afterwards (post wilderness encounter) aimed against Christ.

All your posts/comments are at best very philosophical to please feelings and emotions (and this is what her counsellor is doing as well. She still doesnt believe she should tell her husband the truth). Not once have you used the Scripture to address your points. And to be quite frank you can't use scripture to back up your views as the scriptures  have no place for all that you have been talking about.

By The way I have read most of all her posts and story e.g. her posts in the titles e.g. "counselling is making things worse at home". I tend to read peoples past post to know what sort they are and hence how to approach them.

"Information overload". I doubt that very much. I post in view not only for the sake of hopeforfuture but for also those (the millions) people who are reading and searching the internet to possibly answer those issues that are heavy on their heart or to meet those who have been through the likes.

Your previous post before this accused me of just commenting and not giving answers. And now that I have given answers (practical answers on what hopeforfuture is to do) you seem to not be happy with that either. By the way I am not the only one that has advised hopeforfuture on what to do. A few posters have. But she seems to want to do things her own way e.g. not being truthful to her husband for starters.

In regards to counsellors, it is good to seek out counsel from others, but they can't make the final decision for you. Counsellors are human beings hence prone to err. But we know for sure that God's word is infallible. We know for sure God's word can cut deep between the spirit and the soul. Something no power on earth can ever do (talk less of a counsellor). Hopeforfuture knows what to do but she doesn't want to do it but wants do it her own way. She clearly knows what God requires of her and she doesn't need a counsellor to tell/address that to her. She can start by saying the truth. And a counsellor that encourages not to say the truth (even if its' for now) on matters like these personally I would go somewhere else.

The Scriptures tell us what we need to do when we have direct answers from God's word. Incline, understand, obey, then be diligent in doing it and then trust God.

Pro 2:2  So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding;
Pro 3:5  Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Pro 4:23  Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.

And we should not be like those the Lord desribes as below:
Act 28:27  For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Again these posts/comments are for the admonition of not just hopeforfuture but for others and also people that will read in the future.

Quote from: eddmon on Tue Oct 05, 2010 - 13:14:05
IamStefanie

I found your post/comment interesting.

Please is it possible to go further and explain to us how (or went about) you repented from your adultery?

NOTE: Please I only ask this for my (our) admonition/growth as we are all need to do.

Hi eddmon,
Well, it actually took a long time after confessing Christ to realize I could not continue on the cycle of going back and forth between sinful living and holiness. When I first became a believer, I was reading the Word and I recognized right from wrong; however, I still lusted after things that I could no longer 'have', (ex: sexual pleasure, partying, etc). And, after fornicating here and there, and going to clubs here and there, it never felt 'right.' And what really got me to say 'NO MORE!!!'...

...was about 6 months or so I guess when I got to a point where I was feeling 'lonely.' And I mean a physical loneliness, not having a 'man'. And, I got into the habit of self-pleasure, thinking it was ok since it was not with anyone else. All this time, I kept running back into my ex off and on (nothing sexual happened but we would always, meet up - with a hug or kiss here and there or talk on the phone reminiscing on the past). So all of these things started to stem up. So, once the self pleasure came, then I would access porn thru my cable tv. Then, I started on this guilt trip feeling like there was no closure between my ex and I. I hadn't heard from my ex for a while at this point, and I was missing him. Now mind you, at this time, he was married (has been married since 2001) - and although he had not been with his wife for years (they basically separated some months after the beginning of their marriage), he is still married, and being with someone else's husband is indeed adultery. So, we hooked back up a little over two months ago and I was just NOT at peace. I mean, as much as I tried to make it happen, I couldn't live with doing that! And, I knew it was wrong because I wasn't even reading my Bible through all of this with a clear conscious. So, my ex and I had a falling out a couple of weeks into us hooking up, and he didn't call me for 3 weeks.

That gave me clarity. I knew I had to STOP!!!!! And really let the ways of my past go!! Giving it all to God and not going to look for ways to fix things. I had already been redeemed 2 1/2 years ago.  I had to stop going back and forth - I was really tired of it. Yes, giving into my flesh was cool, only for a moment, but I love God more than anything and I had to start showing Him. (Plus I'm working to see the kingdom!) God's word is QUITE clear on sin. I had to leave it all alone! I had to recognize temptations will arise, but I have to stay in God's word and in prayer. Not only does it give me direction, but when I do right, I am at peace! Period. And I believe that is how I am able to repent. The peace that God gives me when I'm holy and the fact that He forgave me of my sins while I was a sinner is enough for me to live a repentant life. I should not take His love and all that he has done for granted by giving into to my flesh with no. I do my best now to live a repentant life - one day at a time.

Matthew 5:32 "But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to commit adultery, and anyone who marries a woman so divorced commits adultery."
Similarly, Scripture states:
"I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery" (Matt. 19:9).
"Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery" (Luke. 16:18).
"Some Pharisees came and tested him by asking, 'Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?' 'What did Moses command you?' he replied. They said, 'Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce and send her away.' 'It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law,' Jesus replied. 'But at the beginning of creation God "made them male and female." "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.' When they were in the house again, the disciples asked Jesus about this. He answered, 'Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery' "(Mk. 10:2-12).

The aforementioned Scriptures about divorce and remarriage were given by the Lord Jesus. Clearly, He stated marital unfaithfulness (sexual immorality) is the only cause for a divorce! Hence, if one divorces his spouse for any other reason besides sexual immorality, regardless what that reason is, he is indicted by these verses! If such a person would then "marry" another, not only would he be committing adultery, but the person he "marries" would likewise be committing adultery! All people, who have never been married, need to know these facts before they consider marrying someone who might not be eligible for marriage again, namely a divorced person. When we consider passages like 1 Cor. 6:9,10 and Rev. 21:8, we can only conclude that an adulterous marriage, as referred to in Matt. 5:32 and 19:9, will result in both parties being thrown into the lake of fire, that is, unless that ceases and they find forgiveness for their adultery.

So you believe that if a person is divorced for sexual immorality (which is actually more that just adultery)they can remarry, but if they are the one who did ths sexual immorality, then they cant remarry even though the marriage is clearly over through the divorce?
So that means there can never be any forgiveness for the one who cheated even if they truly repented?

I tried to read through the majority of this post. Forgive me if I missed the answer to the question I'm about to ask.

Must you tell your spouse that you had intercourse with another... In order to truly repent?  Some argue that it only damages the victim (spouse) more... Just to ease another's conscience. 

What is the overall ruling on this if one wants to repent and go to Heaven?

QuoteMust you tell your spouse that you had intercourse with another... In order to truly repent?

Personally, I tend to go with the "camp" that it damages the victim more, in some cases.  "Repentance" means that YOU have changed your heart and your mind and have turned away from your sin to follow a new "path" of life. 

Whether you tell, or don't tell, is more of a decision based upon restoration of your marriage, not whether God has forgiven you.  I don't believe that it should be done with a motive to ease one's conscience.  I think that is self-centered and sinful.  Do the crime, do the time.  Don't blame it on someone else or give another person the burden and pain of it.

I also think that it cannot be avoided in some cases.  If one's affair is discovered by the spouse,  lying to the spouse about it will further erode the trust and make restoration harder.
 

Personally I would hate if if I thought that my spouse has had sex with another lady and not told me. The lying would be just as bad as the act itself to me. How can the spouse forgive if they dont even know about it and what about if they find out years later? No, for me its the cowards way out not to tell. The cheated on spouse has a right to know that the marriage covenant has been broken, and to make that decision if  they want to carry on in the marriage.

Quote from: chosenone on Wed Jul 13, 2011 - 13:28:59
Personally I would hate if if I thought that my spouse has had sex with another lady and not told me. The lying would be just as bad as the act itself to me. How can the spouse forgive if they dont even know about it and what about if they find out years later? No, for me its the cowards way out not to tell. The cheated on spouse has a right to know that the marriage covenant has been broken, and to make that decision if  they want to carry on in the marriage.

I think that's right.  The spouse should have the opportunity to make the decision about something so important to his or her life.  Also, what about std's?     I think the spouse should be told so they can go straight to their doctor.  Neither spouse should put the other's life in danger to begin with, but if they do, they should do the right thing right away.

"The aforementioned Scriptures about divorce and remarriage were given by the Lord Jesus. Clearly, He stated marital unfaithfulness (sexual immorality) is the only cause for a divorce! Hence, if one divorces his spouse for any other reason besides sexual immorality, regardless what that reason is, he is indicted by these verses! If such a person would then "marry" another, not only would he be committing adultery, but the person he "marries" would likewise be committing adultery! All people, who have never been married, need to know these facts before they consider marrying someone who might not be eligible for marriage again, namely a divorced person. When we consider passages like 1 Cor. 6:9,10 and Rev. 21:8, we can only conclude that an adulterous marriage, as referred to in Matt. 5:32 and 19:9, will result in both parties being thrown into the lake of fire, that is, unless that ceases and they find forgiveness for their adultery. "

I do not believe that this is an accurate interpretation. For example, based on that logic, a couple who were in their second marriages (they were divorced by their first spouses due to arguements all the time over finances) and became christians 20 yrs into marriage would have to seperate!

Yes, adultery is extremely serious sin, and I think that eddmons emotionally charged words (crushed to powder etc.) are not out of place. Adultery is incredibly destructive and deserves our hatred and revulsion.

But, thanks to the mighty redemptive power of Jesus' death and resurrection all such sin can be forgiven and no penalty is paid in eternity for those who have accepted Him as Lord and Saviour. There are many penalties in this life that are paid, the worst in my opinion is the hurt to children and the smashed family life.

1) Can a person be a true Christian and commit adultery? If so, then how do they assuage their conscience? If they're truly saved, can they have any peace from God? (I can't even begin to imagine commiting adultery against my spouse.)

2) Have some of you experienced former spouses who commited adultery and what became of them for this sin? What were their consequences? Aren't there always consequences for sin? Does God bless adulterous unions?

God is a God of grace but he is not mocked everyone reaps what they sow. God knows who are his own and no-one else really except you will know them by their fruit. But ungodly fruit does not mean that they are not saved. King David sinned badly a number of times, adultery, murder, responsible for terrible deaths of his people but he was restored. So the question is about time.

Unfortunately, no-one knows if someone will repent and if they do how long it will take. So in the meantime we have to make decisions based on God's word and obtain wisdom. God gives wisdom and we find it in many counsellors.

Sexual sin is very complicated. If someone has not truly repented of sexual sin then it produces fruit. All choices produce fruit. Sometimes people cannot literally help themselves after wilfully entering into sin. Spiritual forces are at work when we sin and we give them legal ground to oppress, deceive and lead us astray. The solution is repentance, changing heart and turning away from that sin. But we all need to remember that we repent through the grace of God. Faith is a gift and so is repentance. So when your wife hears God's voice she need so heed it or she will even more trapped in her situation. There are always consequences for sin, first in the heart then in relationships, both with people and God.

My friends wife became adulterous and there marriage ended after years of him trying. However, I know of another who God intervened and their marriage is a strong as ever, in fact more so. But that was a miracle of God.

Make sure that through your pain that you focus on God not your wife. God never blesses darkness.

Quote
Can a person be a true Christian and commit adultery?

Yes.  Christians can be guilty of all manners of sin.  We are not exempt from temptation, nor the human nature to "fall".

QuoteIf so, then how do they assuage their conscience?

It must be through repentance, asking God to forgive, and if the person they committed adultery against knows about it, asking them to forgive.  When they receive the full assurance in their heart that they have CHANGED from the inside out and will no longer seek adultery
as their way, their conscience will be good inside them again.

Quote
If they're truly saved, can they have any peace from God? (I can't even begin to imagine commiting adultery against my spouse.)

No.  Me either.  I am certain I would have no peace whatsoever about it, and God would be right.

QuoteHave some of you experienced former spouses who commited adultery and what became of them for this sin?
What were their consequences?

Yes.  And, she remained unrepentant for 4 years until she died.   Her death was due to an unfortunate illness she contracted from being transfused.  It was not a "consequence" of her sin.  The consequence she received for her sin was that it ruined her marriage.  Actually, her sin of adultery would have not, in itself, ruined her marriage.  It was her sin of unrepentance, blaming me for her sin, that ruined it.
She simply would not "own" her actions, nor look in the mirror for her problem of concupiscence.

QuoteAren't there always consequences for sin?

Yes.  There are always consequences.

Quote
Does God bless adulterous unions?

God blesses all people, sinners and saints. 

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My friends wife became adulterous and there marriage ended after years of him trying.

This is what happened in my marriage.  Although, ours "stayed together" from the sense that we remained in the same house, the "marriage" was quite over.  I tried "everything", counseling, praying, fasting, talks with the pastor, etc.  She remained staunchly set that this whole thing was my fault, not providing her with enough sex, and not having sufficent anatomical blessings to "satisfy" her.

At one point, during one of her blaming sessions in which she belittled me and my abilities once again, something inside me went "snap", almost as if I actually heard a gunshot or firecracker.  And, seconds later, I told myself on the inside, without speaking a word to her, that
I was "finished".  I would never again touch her sexually as long as she lived.  I was "done" with her, "done" with this awful marriage.

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However, I know of another who God intervened and their marriage is a strong as ever, in fact more so. But that was a miracle of God.

Yes.  I know God "intervened" in ours.  But, he could do no miracles because of her unbelief.  She was totally and completely convinced that I was inadequate and worthless to satisfy her.

Quote from: NeedingYourPrayers on Sun Feb 28, 2010 - 17:06:32
Several nights ago I posted the story of how my wife left me in December 09 for a man whom she first fornicated with and who took her virginity. (That was way back in 1974, when she was only 13! He was allegedly the h.s. stud whom all the girls wanted and now my wife feels like she FINALLY won out over all the other girls who wanted him after 36 yrs.)

What I didn't post was that she was married 3 times before I married her in 1998. I was married twice before I married her. But I was not a Christian until just recently. I had thought when I married my wife that she was a commited serious Christian who had put away her sexual sins from the past, but perhaps I married the wrong person.

To me a true Christian is someone who is seriously bothered by ANY sin that they commit. A true Christian cannot continue to sin over and over and not be bothered by their sin. A true Christian hates his or her sin--and when they sin--they quickly confess it to Jesus have a change of heart and mind. They repent. Jesus said, "If you love me you'll obey me." I take that verse extremely seriously.

Now we all sin from time to time, but I'm not talking about the occasional sin. I'm talking about a long walk away from God's will and His word into a sinful lifestyle; in this case: ADULTERY! And then DIVORCING a spouse so that one can be with their co-adulterer.

This is a two part question that I want your opinions on:

1) Can a person be a true Christian and commit adultery? If so, then how do they assuage their conscience? If they're truly saved, can they have any peace from God? (I can't even begin to imagine commiting adultery against my spouse.)

2) Have some of you experienced former spouses who commited adultery and what became of them for this sin? What were their consequences? Aren't there always consequences for sin? Does God bless adulterous unions?

I know this thread is old but one of the guests were reading it so I wondered over.

My opinion is that only a seriously backslidden christian would do what your wife did.
There is NO way that a born again christian who is living for God would be able to do this and not have it haunt them until they repented.

Quote from: Sinead on Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 05:25:17

Quote from: NeedingYourPrayers on Sun Feb 28, 2010 - 17:06:32
Several nights ago I posted the story of how my wife left me in December 09 for a man whom she first fornicated with and who took her virginity. (That was way back in 1974, when she was only 13! He was allegedly the h.s. stud whom all the girls wanted and now my wife feels like she FINALLY won out over all the other girls who wanted him after 36 yrs.)

What I didn't post was that she was married 3 times before I married her in 1998. I was married twice before I married her. But I was not a Christian until just recently. I had thought when I married my wife that she was a commited serious Christian who had put away her sexual sins from the past, but perhaps I married the wrong person.

To me a true Christian is someone who is seriously bothered by ANY sin that they commit. A true Christian cannot continue to sin over and over and not be bothered by their sin. A true Christian hates his or her sin--and when they sin--they quickly confess it to Jesus have a change of heart and mind. They repent. Jesus said, "If you love me you'll obey me." I take that verse extremely seriously.

Now we all sin from time to time, but I'm not talking about the occasional sin. I'm talking about a long walk away from God's will and His word into a sinful lifestyle; in this case: ADULTERY! And then DIVORCING a spouse so that one can be with their co-adulterer.

This is a two part question that I want your opinions on:

1) Can a person be a true Christian and commit adultery? If so, then how do they assuage their conscience? If they're truly saved, can they have any peace from God? (I can't even begin to imagine commiting adultery against my spouse.)

2) Have some of you experienced former spouses who commited adultery and what became of them for this sin? What were their consequences? Aren't there always consequences for sin? Does God bless adulterous unions?

I know this thread is old but one of the guests were reading it so I wondered over.

My opinion is that only a seriously backslidden christian would do what your wife did.
There is NO way that a born again christian who is living for God would be able to do this and not have it haunt them until they repented.

How is the sin of adultery any different from any other sin in that respect?  Does not every one of your sins haunt you until you have repented?

Quote from: Jimmy on Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 05:43:02

Quote from: Sinead on Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 05:25:17

Quote from: NeedingYourPrayers on Sun Feb 28, 2010 - 17:06:32
Several nights ago I posted the story of how my wife left me in December 09 for a man whom she first fornicated with and who took her virginity. (That was way back in 1974, when she was only 13! He was allegedly the h.s. stud whom all the girls wanted and now my wife feels like she FINALLY won out over all the other girls who wanted him after 36 yrs.)

What I didn't post was that she was married 3 times before I married her in 1998. I was married twice before I married her. But I was not a Christian until just recently. I had thought when I married my wife that she was a commited serious Christian who had put away her sexual sins from the past, but perhaps I married the wrong person.

To me a true Christian is someone who is seriously bothered by ANY sin that they commit. A true Christian cannot continue to sin over and over and not be bothered by their sin. A true Christian hates his or her sin--and when they sin--they quickly confess it to Jesus have a change of heart and mind. They repent. Jesus said, "If you love me you'll obey me." I take that verse extremely seriously.

Now we all sin from time to time, but I'm not talking about the occasional sin. I'm talking about a long walk away from God's will and His word into a sinful lifestyle; in this case: ADULTERY! And then DIVORCING a spouse so that one can be with their co-adulterer.

This is a two part question that I want your opinions on:

1) Can a person be a true Christian and commit adultery? If so, then how do they assuage their conscience? If they're truly saved, can they have any peace from God? (I can't even begin to imagine commiting adultery against my spouse.)

2) Have some of you experienced former spouses who commited adultery and what became of them for this sin? What were their consequences? Aren't there always consequences for sin? Does God bless adulterous unions?

I know this thread is old but one of the guests were reading it so I wondered over.

My opinion is that only a seriously backslidden christian would do what your wife did.
There is NO way that a born again christian who is living for God would be able to do this and not have it haunt them until they repented.

How is the sin of adultery any different from any other sin in that respect?  Does not every one of your sins haunt you until you have repented?

Hi Jimmy. Yes whenever I sin it bothers me and plays on my mind until I repent, and still even after that.
The sin of adultery in my own opinion is one of the worst sins anyone can ever commit.
The damage it causes is phenomenal. Marriage is a sacred covenant and to sin against that covenant is very grave.
Also Jesus said that when you commit other sins you are not sinning against your own body but with adultery you are sinning against your own body.

I'm not of the persuasion that all sin is equal. I also believe that there will be varying degrees of punishment in hell.

Under the Old Testament law a thief paid restitution; an occult practitioner was cut off from Israel; and one who committed adultery or a homosexual act was put to death.

While all sins are sins, there are degrees.

Quote from: Sinead on Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 06:13:23

Quote from: Jimmy on Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 05:43:02

Quote from: Sinead on Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 05:25:17

Quote from: NeedingYourPrayers on Sun Feb 28, 2010 - 17:06:32
Several nights ago I posted the story of how my wife left me in December 09 for a man whom she first fornicated with and who took her virginity. (That was way back in 1974, when she was only 13! He was allegedly the h.s. stud whom all the girls wanted and now my wife feels like she FINALLY won out over all the other girls who wanted him after 36 yrs.)

What I didn't post was that she was married 3 times before I married her in 1998. I was married twice before I married her. But I was not a Christian until just recently. I had thought when I married my wife that she was a commited serious Christian who had put away her sexual sins from the past, but perhaps I married the wrong person.

To me a true Christian is someone who is seriously bothered by ANY sin that they commit. A true Christian cannot continue to sin over and over and not be bothered by their sin. A true Christian hates his or her sin--and when they sin--they quickly confess it to Jesus have a change of heart and mind. They repent. Jesus said, "If you love me you'll obey me." I take that verse extremely seriously.

Now we all sin from time to time, but I'm not talking about the occasional sin. I'm talking about a long walk away from God's will and His word into a sinful lifestyle; in this case: ADULTERY! And then DIVORCING a spouse so that one can be with their co-adulterer.

This is a two part question that I want your opinions on:

1) Can a person be a true Christian and commit adultery? If so, then how do they assuage their conscience? If they're truly saved, can they have any peace from God? (I can't even begin to imagine commiting adultery against my spouse.)

2) Have some of you experienced former spouses who commited adultery and what became of them for this sin? What were their consequences? Aren't there always consequences for sin? Does God bless adulterous unions?

I know this thread is old but one of the guests were reading it so I wondered over.

My opinion is that only a seriously backslidden christian would do what your wife did.
There is NO way that a born again christian who is living for God would be able to do this and not have it haunt them until they repented.

How is the sin of adultery any different from any other sin in that respect?  Does not every one of your sins haunt you until you have repented?

Hi Jimmy. Yes whenever I sin it bothers me and plays on my mind until I repent, and still even after that.
The sin of adultery in my own opinion is one of the worst sins anyone can ever commit.
The damage it causes is phenomenal. Marriage is a sacred covenant and to sin against that covenant is very grave.
Also Jesus said that when you commit other sins you are not sinning against your own body but with adultery you are sinning against your own body.

I'm not of the persuasion that all sin is equal. I also believe that there will be varying degrees of punishment in hell.

Under the Old Testament law a thief paid restitution; an occult practitioner was cut off from Israel; and one who committed adultery or a homosexual act was put to death.

While all sins are sins, there are degrees.

Yes, of course, there are degrees of sin.  There may be degrees of rewards in heaven as well.  But there are no degrees of forgiveness.

No there are to degrees for forgiveness thank God!

Quote from: Sinead on Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 06:26:07
No there are to degrees for forgiveness thank God!

Did you type that correctly?  Did you mean to say that there are degrees of forgiveness?

Quote from: Jimmy on Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 06:28:39

Quote from: Sinead on Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 06:26:07
No there are to degrees for forgiveness thank God!

Did you type that correctly?  Did you mean to say that there are degrees of forgiveness?

lol yes I typed it properly. Not only are there no degrees to forgiveness but God also wipes the sin away as though we had never committed it.

Edit: On closer inspection I think i made a typo - but you get what I mean now ;)

Quote from: Jimmy on Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 06:28:39

Quote from: Sinead on Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 06:26:07
No there are to degrees for forgiveness thank God!

Did you type that correctly?  Did you mean to say that there are degrees of forgiveness?

That's what I am thinking too because she said that she hold adultery as the highest degree of sin yet God doesn't after we repent?

I still don't get it, why would someone want to be more judgmental than God?

I thought blasphemy is the only sin that isn't forgivable? We can say things about God and Jesus but we can't blaspheme the holy spirit.

I don't look at adultery as that bad compared to blasphemy, Thank God neither does God!

Quote from: Bitter Sweet on Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 06:44:01

Quote from: Jimmy on Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 06:28:39

Quote from: Sinead on Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 06:26:07
No there are to degrees for forgiveness thank God!

Did you type that correctly?  Did you mean to say that there are degrees of forgiveness?

That's what I am thinking too because she said that she hold adultery as the highest degree of sin yet God doesn't after we repent?

I still don't get it, why would someone want to be more judgmental than God?

I thought blasphemy is the only sin that isn't forgivable? We can say things about God and Jesus but we can't blaspheme the holy spirit.

I don't look at adultery as that bad compared to blasphemy, Thank God neither does God!

If you are going to quote what I say then please make sure that you read correctly what I am saying and do not add things to what I've said that simply aren't there.

All sins are not equal. Some are worse than others. Adultery is one of the worst sins a person can commit.

This has no bearing on forgiveness but on punishment and consequences.

If a person tells a so-called 'white lie' to make someone else feel better it is sin.

However if a person goes out and murders someone this is far worse than the latter.

Jimmy asked me why I thought adultery was worse than any other sin and I answered him.

I never said anything about forgiveness or about degrees of forgiveness. All sin can be forgiven.

Quote from: NeedingYourPrayers on Sun Feb 28, 2010 - 17:06:32
Several nights ago I posted the story of how my wife left me in December 09 for a man whom she first fornicated with and who took her virginity. (That was way back in 1974, when she was only 13! He was allegedly the h.s. stud whom all the girls wanted and now my wife feels like she FINALLY won out over all the other girls who wanted him after 36 yrs.)

What I didn't post was that she was married 3 times before I married her in 1998. I was married twice before I married her. But I was not a Christian until just recently. I had thought when I married my wife that she was a commited serious Christian who had put away her sexual sins from the past, but perhaps I married the wrong person.

To me a true Christian is someone who is seriously bothered by ANY sin that they commit. A true Christian cannot continue to sin over and over and not be bothered by their sin. A true Christian hates his or her sin--and when they sin--they quickly confess it to Jesus have a change of heart and mind. They repent. Jesus said, "If you love me you'll obey me." I take that verse extremely seriously.

Now we all sin from time to time, but I'm not talking about the occasional sin. I'm talking about a long walk away from God's will and His word into a sinful lifestyle; in this case: ADULTERY! And then DIVORCING a spouse so that one can be with their co-adulterer.

This is a two part question that I want your opinions on:

1) Can a person be a true Christian and commit adultery? If so, then how do they assuage their conscience? If they're truly saved, can they have any peace from God? (I can't even begin to imagine commiting adultery against my spouse.)

2) Have some of you experienced former spouses who commited adultery and what became of them for this sin? What were their consequences? Aren't there always consequences for sin? Does God bless adulterous unions?

Can a true Christian sin?

I see adultery as very serious because of the terrible hurt and devastation that is causes. Paul says that sexual sin is a sin against our own bodies. If I lie, for example, it usually only hurts me and my relationship with God. If I committ adultery, it destroys other peoples lives, marriages and children's lives. Remember that in OT times the one who did this was executed.  I do believe that a Christian can committ adultery, but if they are a true Christian they will at some point be repentant, apologise both to God and to the person they sinned against. Of course it can be forgiven if the one who did it it truly repentant.
As for the consequences, they are many and serious, and for many it will badly effect the rest of their lives. I have seen it happen again and again in those around me. Divorces, suicide, deep depression, damaged children, babies conceived in the affair and then either born or aborted(I have known 1 case of the former and 2 of the latter), spouses who have been deeply hurt and rejected, living in financial lack, and of course the wider effect that adultery has on society around us.
Its a horrible thing, and even when we are forgiven, God still knows that there will be far reaching consequenses for all concerned. I believes its called reaping what we have sown. One reason why God tells us so strongly not to do it, is because he wants to save us from all the awful mess that it leaves. No one wins in the end.