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He could be just messing with your head but personally I believe he is mentally ill / has at the very least a personality disorder.  He switches gears too fast and by your descriptions sounds as though he believes the things he is saying.  Either way he is unstable, and you've been through enough advice and discussion here to know that your trying again is not the best option.  Even if there were hope for the future, which I do not believe there is, the current situation is at best - harmful, and at worst - dangerous, for you and your daughter.  I wish I had the answers but I believe the lawyer's advice was obviously not the path God intended and you will yet run into the person who will help you.  My instincts tell me you at least need to get to a shelter, where you are safe, and THEN the legal advice, money issues, etc., will fall into place.  You need a place you can rest and think clearly while you are safe.  The staff at these shelters know that the women coming to them don't have a lot of money - I'm betting there is good advice and help you don't even know about once you get there.

I understand the need for a plan, but I don't know that you need the entire thing planned in detail - baby steps first.  Get out, get to safety.  God will give you what you need at the time to continue on your path.  He's not going to take you that far and forget you.  Have faith.

Hi! Name's Katie! I am so sorry that you are going through this. I have went through the same thing with my dad. Not as severe but he abused me a lot. And told me he hated me. I had such anger and such hatred towards my Dad that I seriously wanted to kill him (this was in 9th grade...because he almost broke my nose one time). I finally left my house to live in the city...but I am now back living in the family and I am trying my hardest to forgive my father. So I understand how alone and how confused you feel. I am so sorry for all the pain that you are going through.

And God, your Heavenly Father, is crying. I honestly believe he doesn't want you to be in this marriage. He doesn't want your husband doing this to you. You are GODS creation! And no one deserves to be threatened, hit, etc etc, if we are God's creation! You are a masterpiece!

Your husband may have resistance of separating, but I think that's the wise choice. If he disagrees, fine. But you have to do this. That is just my opinion. Simply tell him, "I don't hate you. But I don't like what you are doing to me and this isn't working out. You've made several promises, and you've broken all of them. I'm going to move back to NJ with our daughter, and hopefully you made a 360 degrees turn around." It's going to be hard, but it's time to put a foot down. 2nd chances are always good, but your husband is obviously struggling with something. And it's not healthy for you and your daughter.

God loves you. I know you feel so alone, and I know you feel so afraid (I was scared so many times that I hid in my room a LOT). But God's here. Please, feel free to contact me. I really want to continue talking to you.

Quote from: Seeking on Wed Aug 27, 2008 - 22:49:52
He could be just messing with your head but personally I believe he is mentally ill / has at the very least a personality disorder.  He switches gears too fast and by your descriptions sounds as though he believes the things he is saying.  Either way he is unstable, and you've been through enough advice and discussion here to know that your trying again is not the best option.

I agree with Seeking.  These problems are deep seeded and require drastic actions.  Counseling could definitely help.  Hopefully his suggestion was sincere.  Separation is also another option.  On that note, it seems most of the people responding to your posts', immediate concern, is your physical health.  He seems to be, what I was for a while; too controlling.  The person who controls the most, cares the least.  He should want what's best for you, and your/his daughter.  If he understands that there are issues between the two of you, he should want to make effort towards fixing those problems.  There really isn't a right or wrong solution, what's important is that you take action!  If he is strongly against counseling, or going back to NJ, maybe try to compromise with an alternative.  I've never been married so take this with a grain of salt -whether or not the problem lies within him alone,  his problems are all the same your problems and vice versa.  So he should try and support you, in your attempt to correct an apparently ill household.  If he has another suggestion, you should try to support him all the same.

However you know the situation better than anyone.  If you feel the physical health of you or your daughter is at all at risk by staying with him, you need to get out, and now.  Inevitably, God will give you the answers to everything.  Pray hard.  And keep your eyes on God.

God's faithfulness in the past, gives us confidence for the present, and hope for the future.

Cristals Mama,

I want to show you some excerpts from an article on abuse in relationships that I hope might help give you clarity:

Abused people are very often too trusting; they tend to absorb – take in and adopt as their own belief - the lies an abuser tells them... The abused must learn to reflect without absorbing, for to absorb that which the abuser fills them with is to blindly trust the abuser while not trusting in the grace of God.  Trust without the Truth of God has the sting of a scorpion.

...many insist on staying in the burning fire when God is right there telling them to step out.  Why do they stay in the fire?  They are convinced the fire is where they deserve to be, or are supposed to be.  You will even most likely hear them tell you that the fire isn't so bad; it's quite cozy there because once in awhile there is a breeze; and hey the abuser gave them a glass of water aren't they wonderful? 

The demons and their forces which surround an abuser make them, by their very nature, masters of deception.  After all, Satan did not gain his strength on this earth by showing people what he truly is.  Rather, he listens and watches for a person's weakness and fears, then wears a veil of false-truth and false-hope to gain access through the easiest route.  You have to look very closely to see through the veil, but first you have to WANT to see through the veil.

Many abusers appear to be unaware of their intentional and methodical deceit, which is a denial of truth - to their victim, and to themselves.  Note that they "appear

Quote from: Seeking on Wed Aug 27, 2008 - 22:49:52
He could be just messing with your head but personally I believe he is mentally ill / has at the very least a personality disorder.  He switches gears too fast and by your descriptions sounds as though he believes the things he is saying.  Either way he is unstable, and you've been through enough advice and discussion here to know that your trying again is not the best option.  Even if there were hope for the future, which I do not believe there is, the current situation is at best - harmful, and at worst - dangerous, for you and your daughter.  I wish I had the answers but I believe the lawyer's advice was obviously not the path God intended and you will yet run into the person who will help you.  My instincts tell me you at least need to get to a shelter, where you are safe, and THEN the legal advice, money issues, etc., will fall into place.  You need a place you can rest and think clearly while you are safe.  The staff at these shelters know that the women coming to them don't have a lot of money - I'm betting there is good advice and help you don't even know about once you get there.

I understand the need for a plan, but I don't know that you need the entire thing planned in detail - baby steps first.  Get out, get to safety.  God will give you what you need at the time to continue on your path.  He's not going to take you that far and forget you.  Have faith.

I know your right I guess I just keep letting guilt and my fear of the unknown get in the way, thank you for your reply it means alot to me and it said exactly what has been whispering to me through the clutter of my mind!

Thank you Adon and Katie your posts spoke to my heart and I really appreciate you taking time for me!

Quote from: Seeking on Thu Aug 28, 2008 - 00:59:51
Cristals Mama,

I want to show you some excerpts from an article on abuse in relationships that I hope might help give you clarity:

Abused people are very often too trusting; they tend to absorb – take in and adopt as their own belief - the lies an abuser tells them... The abused must learn to reflect without absorbing, for to absorb that which the abuser fills them with is to blindly trust the abuser while not trusting in the grace of God.  Trust without the Truth of God has the sting of a scorpion.

...many insist on staying in the burning fire when God is right there telling them to step out.  Why do they stay in the fire?  They are convinced the fire is where they deserve to be, or are supposed to be.  You will even most likely hear them tell you that the fire isn't so bad; it's quite cozy there because once in awhile there is a breeze; and hey the abuser gave them a glass of water aren't they wonderful? 

The demons and their forces which surround an abuser make them, by their very nature, masters of deception.  After all, Satan did not gain his strength on this earth by showing people what he truly is.  Rather, he listens and watches for a person's weakness and fears, then wears a veil of false-truth and false-hope to gain access through the easiest route.  You have to look very closely to see through the veil, but first you have to WANT to see through the veil.

Many abusers appear to be unaware of their intentional and methodical deceit, which is a denial of truth - to their victim, and to themselves.  Note that they "appear

Seeking, that is an awesome post!  Thank you! 

Cristals Mama and Trueblue - I just have to thank you for that.  It's actually part of an article on abuse I have spent 2 years writing and fine-tuning, but I have never gotten the final "healing" part quite right.  I want to publish it, although I have no idea how to go about that.  Friends have said I should make sure I copyright it but I felt these are God's words he instilled in me to help people, so I don't feel right calling this "my own".

Anyway, you know friends, they tell you nice things... but I was hesitant how it would be viewed by others.  When I read Cristals posts I saw so many things she said in my article, and I just felt perhaps she'd gain some strength from this.  You both have given me some inspiration to pursue publishing, I just need to find the way that will reach the people I really want it to help.

With that in mind, I'm going to be brave here.  Cristals I'd like you to read part of a poem I wrote for another friend of mine who was abused.  He is a man - a lot of people don't know that statistically abuse of women toward men has risen steeply.  The words came to me all at once one day, I could barely write them down fast enough I was so overcome by the holy spirit.

Cristals I want you to know YOU CAN DO THIS.

excerpt from "The Champion"

Behind him lay familiar ground.
Ahead, unknown but true,
was life as it was meant to be;
behind was what he knew.

He walks the river, to and fro,
he sees the other side.
He doesn't have the courage yet
to cross that great divide.

Enticed by freedom, truth and love
Yet bound by honor's word,
confused he kneels and prays to God,
"Please tell me what I heard."

"Did You bring me from the mountain
across the plain to see
the brilliance of the other side
where I was meant to be?

Or did I hear you wrong, O Lord
Am I to change my stance?
Do I go back, is that the Way?
If so, I lose this chance.

I only seek Your truth, my Lord,
I wish to do Your Will
Holy Spirit, please make it clear
I will not move until."

The Lord began to slow the rain
and then He chose to speak,
"Come close to Me and you will see;
Til then, mere men are weak.

I will give you strength to travel,
but you must listen clearly;
the ties that bind you are not Mine.
Undo them, and then Hear Me.

I answered you, my son, you know -
step to the water's shore.
Just as Egypt's slaves, be free;
have faith and nothing more.

Dispense your fear and all your tears,
You've clearly heard My Voice.
I delivered you from bondage once -
this time it is your choice."

   What a great poem!  Seeking, God has definitely blessed you with a talent for writing.  Use it for His glory. 

My daughter is a psychologist, and I was going to copy and send the abuse post to her so it may be passed on to anyone she encounters in the same situation.  .  If you don't mind, I'll include this poem, too.  I had already sent your first post to a friend, who finally escaped from a very abusive situation after ten years.  It might help her further recognize exactly how and why her abuser had such control over her.  I also was in an abusive marriage years ago, and what you stated was "right on."

Thank you, again, for posting.  Definitely anointed!!!   

That's fine True, I have already given it to another Christian counselor who asked for a copy because it contained points in it he hadn't ever considered, and he wanted to use it in his counseling of abusers/victims.  If it helps just one soul escape the torture, it's worth it.

And thanks.  If you don't mind, I'd like to send you the article and poem in entirety if you are going to pass it to your daughter.  The poem contains a second part, after the person I wrote it for returned to their abusive situation and had gotten themselves back in the same predicament.  It's fairly common for that to occur, so I feel it important to address people at that time also.

--seeking

Yes, please message me with the entire poem and article!  They will be put to good use.  If you put the copyright symbol on any document you have authored, the year and your name, that would be a good thing. 

Here's a link that will help you find out how to get your works copyrighted. 
http://www.copyright.gov/

Quote from: Seeking on Thu Aug 28, 2008 - 11:14:25
Cristals Mama and Trueblue - I just have to thank you for that.  It's actually part of an article on abuse I have spent 2 years writing and fine-tuning, but I have never gotten the final "healing" part quite right.  I want to publish it, although I have no idea how to go about that.  Friends have said I should make sure I copyright it but I felt these are God's words he instilled in me to help people, so I don't feel right calling this "my own".

Anyway, you know friends, they tell you nice things... but I was hesitant how it would be viewed by others.  When I read Cristals posts I saw so many things she said in my article, and I just felt perhaps she'd gain some strength from this.  You both have given me some inspiration to pursue publishing, I just need to find the way that will reach the people I really want it to help.

With that in mind, I'm going to be brave here.  Cristals I'd like you to read part of a poem I wrote for another friend of mine who was abused.  He is a man - a lot of people don't know that statistically abuse of women toward men has risen steeply.  The words came to me all at once one day, I could barely write them down fast enough I was so overcome by the holy spirit.

Cristals I want you to know YOU CAN DO THIS.

excerpt from "The Champion"

Behind him lay familiar ground.
Ahead, unknown but true,
was life as it was meant to be;
behind was what he knew.

He walks the river, to and fro,
he sees the other side.
He doesn't have the courage yet
to cross that great divide.

Enticed by freedom, truth and love
Yet bound by honor's word,
confused he kneels and prays to God,
"Please tell me what I heard."

"Did You bring me from the mountain
across the plain to see
the brilliance of the other side
where I was meant to be?

Or did I hear you wrong, O Lord
Am I to change my stance?
Do I go back, is that the Way?
If so, I lose this chance.

I only seek Your truth, my Lord,
I wish to do Your Will
Holy Spirit, please make it clear
I will not move until."

The Lord began to slow the rain
and then He chose to speak,
"Come close to Me and you will see;
Til then, mere men are weak.

I will give you strength to travel,
but you must listen clearly;
the ties that bind you are not Mine.
Undo them, and then Hear Me.

I answered you, my son, you know -
step to the water's shore.
Just as Egypt's slaves, be free;
have faith and nothing more.

Dispense your fear and all your tears,
You've clearly heard My Voice.
I delivered you from bondage once -
this time it is your choice."

It is like you wrote everything in my heart;  every fear, doubt and question I have been struggling with for sooooo long   

HEY Cristals Mama, how you doing?

I figure it's a long holiday weekend which means more time with your husband, so you might need a little extra support.

I wanted to give you some thoughts in case any might work for you to help you through the time.

* Remember that your husband has the problem, and you an awesome woman for having withstood all that you have. Tell yourself often "I am worthy before the Lord".  In fact, the only one who views you as unworthy is your husband - and he's got a problem so his opinion doesn't count. 

* Imagine a "shield" around you, like a bubble.  It's kinda like making your mind see the holy spirit wrapped around you.  The enemy cannot harm you.  You can SEE the enemy, but its effects bounce off your shield - you no longer absorb it. 

* Along with this, try learning to reflect.  For example, replies like "I'm sorry you feel that way" don't really engage or heighten any disagreement.  Unfortunately I don't know how to explain it for a variety of situations like my old counselor could, but I do know that I found my own ways of replying to things without really engaging a dispute.  It doesn't work all the time, in every situation - but it does come in handy.  When you get out and get some counseling after you leave, they will teach you things like this that will help you as you grow.

* When filled with fears and doubts, Behavior Management techniques work very well.  In simplest terms, it's basically like "pretending to be who you want to be" and soon your mind begins to automatically think that way.  I know this sounds stupid, but it really works.  A lifelong friend of mine was never very athletic and never felt she could do anything like "people like that" do - she felt intimidated around situations requiring extra physical activity with those who were better.  One day her sister-in-law said to her "I've always thought of you like a runner, with your long legs and such" and my friend was in dismay.  She said she decided to think of herself as a runner, and oddly she soon found herself less intimidated, more willing to try things, until she actually became more active and happy with herself.

I used these techniques when I was in a situation with an old business partner who I knew was taking my customers and was going to break out on her own in competition with me.  I was convinced she'd kill my business, I felt betrayed and angry, I'd go to work every day sick to my stomach waiting for the face-off to happen, telling myself the entire way "this is going to be horrible, I can't do this, I'll fall apart".  My counselor told me as soon as those thoughts entered my mind to say instead "Today is going to work out ok.  I'm a good business person and my own integrity will carry me".  (Mind you she had been trying to get me to do this for over two years, but it sounded stupid to me and it was a lie - that wasn't how I felt so what was the point, WORDS wouldn't change how I FELT!  But remember - it is your husbands' words that have changed how you feel - words are powerful.)  On just the THIRD day of this, I found I was starting to automatically think more the positive thoughts instead of the negative ones. (my business succeeded and hers failed after one year).

Examples of things to change are:  "I can't get out" becomes "I can get out".  "I don't know what to do" becomes "I know what I have to do".  "I am so sad" becomes "I am going to be happy in my new life".  "I am afraid" becomes "What am I afraid of?  He is a mere human, just as I - and I have the Lord on my side."  "I can't do "this"" becomes "I can do anything I set my mind to do".

* When you think you don't have the power to get out or the strength to get by, imagine your new life.  One where you make your own decisions, one where you can speak freely.  It isn't going to be easy, but it IS going to be better.  Imagine yourself in ten years, in a new life, looking back on "those days" and being SO glad you did what you did.  Let yourself feel good for having done it - and hold onto that strength when it's time to go.

In total, all these things are allowing positive thoughts and feelings to fill you as you no longer allow the negative to get inside you. 

Remember, the Will of God never takes you where the Grace of God cannot keep you.

This is just a random thought but, can you somehow call the women's shelter and ask if someone can meet you in a park somewhere to discuss things?  That way your daughter won't say anything but she was in a park, and she will be distracted while you talk.  Get the information you need to subside your fears of the unknown.  You can find out what you can bring, what kind of legal advice is available, how women go about starting to make their own money to move on, etc.  Will someone come pick you up on a given day?  Can a family member come from NJ to be with you while you do this?  If it turns out you can't leave the state right away doesn't mean you can't get out.  Tear down your roadblocks - because you have the power to do so :)

  Speak your victory into existence! You are the child of the most high God! BELIEVE He will protect you and lead you into freedom because He loves to love you.  You can do this...We are all praying for you and we all love you 

Thank you again so much naarah, Seeking, everyone for the encouragement I cherish it soooo much and I don't feel quite so alone with all of you out there supporting and praying for me!

I always dread the weekends because of the extra time he is home!  It is so strange but I have noticed that during all those years I spent trying and praying things would change and I tried so hard to get his love, the worse he got but now that I have distanced myself from him in my heart all of a sudden he seems to want me so much.  He tells me often how hard he is trying and how hurt he is because I don't talk to him so much anymore or want to hug him or anything.  how about that stuff?  He is really trying to pull out all the stops being nice and everything, asking if I want anything from the store, even taking me to get the contact lenses that I have wanted for 2 1/2 years.

I know though, I know I am not imagining it when I see the little tiny signs there of the other guy- like when we were going to the optometrist and couldn't find the place so I called for directions and he began arguing with me about it until my daughter yelled out "daddy stop arguing with my Mother" then he got real quite and brooding for a little while after that..

I have had such a difficult time with speaking positive to myself but I will give it the best try that I am able with God,  push away the doubt and guilt-- it is not from God and has plagued me long enough!  I opened a storage unit on Thursday and have been trying to move what little important things I own as well as some of my daughters things that I can without him noticing.  There are other things I would like to put away but I am afraid he will notice them missing.  I am working on getting ready asap, I still fight so much doubt, fear and guilt though that I am so afraid that I will give in again but God is strong when I am weak!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am always worried about making the wrong decision for me and mostly my daughter, most of the doubt comes during the times when she says something nice about him or wants his attention however briefly the moment will last.  She doesn't understand and I am worried that our leaving will upset her too much, my head is spinning!

Sorry this is so scattered,
I love you all!
Kim

Kim - I just wanted to show you that it all fits the pattern, and that you're not crazy.  I'm hoping this gives definition to some of those things that make your head spin. You are doing GREAT!

Quote from: cristals mama on Sat Aug 30, 2008 - 19:37:30It is so strange but I have noticed that during all those years I spent trying and praying things would change and I tried so hard to get his love <The abused can spend a lifetime trying to gain the love and acceptance of their loved one, when in fact their ruler is their enemy>, the worse he got but now that I have distanced myself from him in my heart all of a sudden he seems to want me so much.  He tells me often how hard he is trying and how hurt he is because I don't talk to him so much anymore or want to hug him or anything. <The demons and their forces which surround an abuser make them, by their very nature, masters of deception.>   how about that stuff?  <These atonements are not the obvious apologies, although often accompanied by them.  They can be as slight as a small smile, a caring gesture, a helping hand - anything which says to the abused "look how good I am; how could you reject me now.  Don't you feel guilty now for not loving me?"  No one willingly succumbs to manipulation, which is why satan disguises it so well.> He is really trying to pull out all the stops being nice and everything, asking if I want anything from the store, even taking me to get the contact lenses that I have wanted for 2 1/2 years. <...Should the abused begin to stands firm, the abuser becomes even more desperate to regain their authority.  The abuser will usually resort to manipulative forms of control, such as providing false hope through token goodnesses, inflicting shame or guilt, evoking sympathy, proclaiming love - ANYTHING which puts focus BACK on them.>

I know though, I know I am not imagining it when I see the little tiny signs there of the other guy- like when we were going to the optometrist and couldn't find the place so I called for directions and he began arguing with me about it until my daughter yelled out "daddy stop arguing with my Mother" then he got real quite and brooding for a little while after that.. <You have to look very closely to see through the veil,... see, he's still there...>

I have had such a difficult time with speaking positive to myself but I will give it the best try that I am able with God,  push away the doubt and guilt-- it is not from God and has plagued me long enough!  <A piece not previously posted in that article: The most significant change in the abused will be in the defining of boundaries – the line that can never again be crossed without sacrificing their soul.  They are worthy before the Lord – therefore worthy in all ways.  Their energy is no longer expended in serving the abuser, their focus is in serving the Lord and rejoicing in the blessings God will bestow upon them.> I opened a storage unit on Thursday and have been trying to move what little important things I own as well as some of my daughters things that I can without him noticing. <GO KIM!! RAH RAH RAH!> There are other things I would like to put away but I am afraid he will notice them missing.  I am working on getting ready asap, I still fight so much doubt, fear and guilt though that I am so afraid that I will give in again but God is strong when I am weak!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am always worried about making the wrong decision for me and mostly my daughter, most of the doubt comes during the times when she says something nice about him or wants his attention however briefly the moment will last.  She doesn't understand and I am worried that our living will upset her too much, my head is spinning. <A paragraph that was not in the prior article post:  A word of caution - just because God loves the abuser equally DOES NOT MEAN God intends for a victim to stay in the presence of that person. If you are the abuser's victim, don't try to be the one to help the abuser heal; you may find you are actually in God's way.><At this time, often the abused have a tendency to feel responsible for any emotional or spiritual anguish the abuser might feel.  It is NOT the victim's job to heal the abuser.  Any discomforts the abuser experiences are the lessons God can use to heal them; interfering in that can actually obstruct the pruning God will do so that His child can produce fruit for His kingdom.  God will work in the lives of His beloved children, and all glory belongs to our powerful, loving God.>

We're all here cheering for you Kim... 

I wonder -- as controlling, and emotionally/mentally abusive, and even occasionally physically abusive -- or at least physically intimidating -- as the man is --

What makes you think he is not reading each and every word you post here?

Quote from: janine on Sat Aug 30, 2008 - 23:40:00
I wonder -- as controlling, and emotionally/mentally abusive, and even occasionally physically abusive -- or at least physically intimidating -- as the man is --

What makes you think he is not reading each and every word you post here?

He used to try and get on my computer and read my personal files etc and even though I could never know for sure, I have since password locked it and make sure to never leave it open unattended or in his presence, I also clear my cache everyday- he is not that computer savvy.  However even if he has managed to find this site and read, it is at the point where it matters not too much to me anyway, it has been too long and I am too tired!

I'm just seeing this thread and know we've talked some on another one but wanted to make a comment to this:

I am always worried about making the wrong decision for me and mostly my daughter, most of the doubt comes during the times when she says something nice about him or wants his attention however briefly the moment will last.  She doesn't understand and I am worried that our living will upset her too much, my head is spinning!



Man, can I relate to this.  One thing that helped me was my therapist telling me when she reaches puberty that he will transfer that behaviour on to her and do I really want her to go through what I'm going through.  That was helpful in my decision.  Also, just had to come to terms that I didn't have the perfect choice to make so I had to choose the best of the bad and that is more difficult to do it seems.  Also, being on this side of it, my kids are now 24 and 20, their maturity level in some ways are much greater because of their experience.  They had to grow up sometimes quicker than others and that isn't always a bad thing.  I'll be honest with you.  Their lives aren't perfect or without pain but they do have some tools to use that I think they got from going through what they went through.    The thing is sometimes we look at other families and think how lucky they are and they have it all together when it could just be they have another whole set of problems.  God can see us through anything and he will see you and your daughter through this.  You can do this!  I'm praying especially for you this week-end as well.

Lisa P

Quote from: Serenity432001 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 - 09:55:29

I'm just seeing this thread and know we've talked some on another one but wanted to make a comment to this:

I am always worried about making the wrong decision for me and mostly my daughter, most of the doubt comes during the times when she says something nice about him or wants his attention however briefly the moment will last.  She doesn't understand and I am worried that our living will upset her too much, my head is spinning!



Man, can I relate to this.  One thing that helped me was my therapist telling me when she reaches puberty that he will transfer that behaviour on to her and do I really want her to go through what I'm going through.  That was helpful in my decision.  Also, just had to come to terms that I didn't have the perfect choice to make so I had to choose the best of the bad and that is more difficult to do it seems.  Also, being on this side of it, my kids are now 24 and 20, their maturity level in some ways are much greater because of their experience.  They had to grow up sometimes quicker than others and that isn't always a bad thing.  I'll be honest with you.  Their lives aren't perfect or without pain but they do have some tools to use that I think they got from going through what they went through.    The thing is sometimes we look at other families and think how lucky they are and they have it all together when it could just be they have another whole set of problems.  God can see us through anything and he will see you and your daughter through this.  You can do this!  I'm praying especially for you this week-end as well.

Lisa P

Thanks Lisa,
I've often thought the same thing about other families myself but then I have also thought based on my experience that sometimes things look so wonderful from the outside and we have no idea what it is really like behind closed doors.  My husband most of the time acts absolutely wonderful in public, trying to hold my hand, opening doors, touching my shoulder gently etc...  He always tries to behave so nicely to others so that they will like him and during the times we have had visitors which is rare- he is always playing the perfect host and husband.

I know what you are saying about the best bad decision- it's so tough when you just want to do what is right.  I have also worried about what will happen with my daughter as she gets older if I stay, both regarding his treatment of her and how she will learn to behave as well.  As it is, he tries to act like super dad when he wants her attention, but the 2nd she doesn't give him what he wants (hugs, kisses, saying she loves him...) or mis-behaves to him (much of which she learned from watching him) he will totally switch gears and call her brat, rebellious, bad attitude, she is treating Daddy bad so maybe Daddy just shouldn't come home anymore,  get away from me, I'm not talking to you again until.....

He is really working the whole nice guy thing, telling me all the plans he has for us in this and that....  I'm going to do this for us and that for us,  I'm going to surprise you at Christmas...   I do not want to get tricked by it all over again and need to stick to my guns I know, but the battle is still ever waging inside of me just the same.

Bless you and I remember that battle well.  The only suggestion I really have on that is to stay in close contact with God and folks you trust to reveal what God wants you to hear.    I got so much conflicting advice, like you said earlier, from good intention Christians who thought I just needed to stay no matter what, but I just kept praying asking for strength and courage and I'm praying that same prayer for you. 

I lied.  I do have another suggestion    One thing I did when my husband kept tellling me he'd change and wanted me back was since my therapist said folks don't change over night and it really takes at least a good year to tell if its possibly going to stick or not, was that I was still getting a divorce for protection more than anything but I wasn't giving up on my marriage and if in a year he still felt like he wanted me back and we both saw change in each other and wanted to try again, we'd look at it then.  Well, needless to say, his big changes didn't last a month, much less a year.  Anyway, thats just a shared experience I thought of.   May God bless you!

Forgive me, I sit here again crying and thinking what my life has been and become.  All I wanted my whole life was to know love, I never wanted things or status or wealth just love- why is it so hard to get that?  I don't think I ever behaved so badly to anyone as to not be deserving of at least love but I feel so sad.  It doesn't matter now whether he loves me or not, whether he is nice to me or not I cry just the same.  I have cried so much over the years, I am surprised I can still do it.  I think I have cried almost everyday for the past 5 years and most of the last 25, my joy in this world is in my daughter (The Lord gave me my dream of her in my heart more than 10 years ago), I just pray for the courage and the strength to make things right for her and the ability to provide for her when that is done!

Again forgive me for my weakness after all of the support you beautiful ones have given me!

Actually Kim, that isn't weakness at all.  Don't look now but you're growing     You have begun the transition to your new life, you can tell by the way you speak now.  Yes, the hurts are still there.  Yes, you have regrets.  We all do.  Of course you're going to worry about your daughter - I mean, if you DIDN'T, THEN maybe you should be concerned.  It's natural.

I'm pretty sure God is smiling and saying "Well done, my good and faithful servant".

I agree with seeking, kim.  It's growing pains and God really does have something amazing for you in mind.  I am sorry you have to hurt but I do know there is much growth in the pain and God will eventually turn that hurt into something you cannot imagine. 

You're going through a very difficult time and what you're feeling and doing is very normal and part of the process.  I'm continuing to pray for you and your daughter and just remember the same God that loves and cares for you loves and cares for your daughter and she will be okay and so will you.

Quote from: cristals mama on Sat Aug 30, 2008 - 19:37:30

I know though, I know I am not imagining it when I see the little tiny signs there of the other guy- like when we were going to the optometrist and couldn't find the place so I called for directions and he began arguing with me about it until my daughter yelled out "daddy stop arguing with my Mother" then he got real quite and brooding for a little while after that..

Maybe an unatural affection to your daughter?

Quote from: Flying To on Mon Sep 01, 2008 - 11:05:22

Quote from: cristals mama on Sat Aug 30, 2008 - 19:37:30

I know though, I know I am not imagining it when I see the little tiny signs there of the other guy- like when we were going to the optometrist and couldn't find the place so I called for directions and he began arguing with me about it until my daughter yelled out "daddy stop arguing with my Mother" then he got real quite and brooding for a little while after that..

Maybe an unatural affection to your daughter?

I see absolutely no connection there.  Zippo.  And zero evidence of that in any previous posts.  If anything, the opposite.  The daughter is merely a tool to punish the mother, and otherwise she is often subjected to the same mental abuse.

Quote from: Seeking on Mon Sep 01, 2008 - 22:31:32

Quote from: Flying To on Mon Sep 01, 2008 - 11:05:22

Quote from: cristals mama on Sat Aug 30, 2008 - 19:37:30

I know though, I know I am not imagining it when I see the little tiny signs there of the other guy- like when we were going to the optometrist and couldn't find the place so I called for directions and he began arguing with me about it until my daughter yelled out "daddy stop arguing with my Mother" then he got real quite and brooding for a little while after that..

Maybe an unatural affection to your daughter?

I see absolutely no connection there.  Zippo.  And zero evidence of that in any previous posts.  If anything, the opposite.  The daughter is merely a tool to punish the mother, and otherwise she is often subjected to the same mental abuse.

Yes Seeking you are right- if there was even the slightest sign of anything like that believe me I would have been gone a long time ago!!!  You are right that he uses her as a tool to punish me and now that she has learned some of his negative behaviors he also blames me for them and expects me to punish her when she reflects them back at him.

As this morning will show you:
I was in the bathroom this morning while he was in the kitchen making a sandwich-  I hear my daughter calling for me and then I hear him say something to her.  Next I hear exclaim that she didn't want him to tell her anything and then I hear him yell don't  you hit me, a slap sound and she starts to cry very hard.  I come out of the bathroom and he says she hit him. I look at her and she is crying holding her hand which is red.

Afterward she begins saying that she doesn't want to do anything until daddy leaves for work etc.... and he begins demanding that I punish her for him and the way she is treating him, keeps saying "aren't you going to do something about this!

Well first of all, you don't have to defend to any of us that your daughter is normally well-behaved, I'm pretty sure anybody reading this isn't thinking any of this is your fault, nor your daughter's.

Secondly, the whole "what are you going to do about this" proves what a poor excuse for a man that he is, everybody else is supposed to fix his world and if they don't he takes away the money.  Well there's more to life than money.  Heck even your daughter has begun to pipe up and tell him not to yell at you, and it's a sad thing when a child takes on the protection role for a parent at that age when she NEEDS to be a kid, as God intended.  Kim I don't mean to be too blunt but the damage is magnifying.

If you hold out too long, you will have your daughter being in school as a further complication.  I don't know if you're ready but today's as good a day as any to go, before he shuts off your money and you might be able to access some.  Otherwise, after today, you're going to be going back to "that other stage" (the "I've changed" stage was pretty short, eh?)  Why do you doubt?  It's been proven over and over and over, you need to BELIEVE.  Your daughter is well behaved NOW, but it's not going to stay like that for long - she's but a child and this life is horrifying for her.  She's still young enough that she will forget much of this, as my son did; but after the age of 4 - 5 they start remembering more and more long-term.  And wait til she goes to church or school and says "daddy hit me for no reason" and suddenly you might not even have your own daughter.  You're risking a lot for the sake of doubt.  Think about this - I was in this position once.  Imagine explaining to authorities how yes you knew he was like this, yes he's physically assaulted you pushing you into walls and other things I'm sure we don't know, yes he's threatened to kill you, yes he takes a lot of anger out on your daughter... they're going to tell you that you allowed this and your ability to make decisions in the best interest of your daughter, your ability to be her mother will be questioned.  You ready to lose your daughter over this?  Cuz it's a real possibility.

I know sometimes you write because in the back of your mind you need validation that this is all real and you are justified.  Well every one of us feels you are justified, and will support you.  Waiting will neither change him, nor provide you with any more money than you have today.  The only thing that will be different if you wait is there will be more damage to you and your daughter.  I can't be certain but I'm betting once you go and you tell us where you are, there are people here who would be willing to contact affiliate churches and such to try to get you some of the things you need.

Quote from: Seeking on Tue Sep 02, 2008 - 08:59:29
Well first of all, you don't have to defend to any of us that your daughter is normally well-behaved, I'm pretty sure anybody reading this isn't thinking any of this is your fault, nor your daughter's.

Secondly, the whole "what are you going to do about this" proves what a poor excuse for a man that he is, everybody else is supposed to fix his world and if they don't he takes away the money.  Well there's more to life than money.  Heck even your daughter has begun to pipe up and tell him not to yell at you, and it's a sad thing when a child takes on the protection role for a parent at that age when she NEEDS to be a kid, as God intended.  Kim I don't mean to be too blunt but the damage is magnifying.

If you hold out too long, you will have your daughter being in school as a further complication.  I don't know if you're ready but today's as good a day as any to go, before he shuts off your money and you might be able to access some.  Otherwise, after today, you're going to be going back to "that other stage" (the "I've changed" stage was pretty short, eh?)  Why do you doubt?  It's been proven over and over and over, you need to BELIEVE.  Your daughter is well behaved NOW, but it's not going to stay like that for long - she's but a child and this life is horrifying for her.  She's still young enough that she will forget much of this, as my son did; but after the age of 4 - 5 they start remembering more and more long-term.  And wait til she goes to church or school and says "daddy hit me for no reason" and suddenly you might not even have your own daughter.  You're risking a lot for the sake of doubt.  Think about this - I was in this position once.  Imagine explaining to authorities how yes you knew he was like this, yes he's physically assaulted you pushing you into walls and other things I'm sure we don't know, yes he's threatened to kill you, yes he takes a lot of anger out on your daughter... they're going to tell you that you allowed this and your ability to make decisions in the best interest of your daughter, your ability to be her mother will be questioned.  You ready to lose your daughter over this?  Cuz it's a real possibility.

I know sometimes you write because in the back of your mind you need validation that this is all real and you are justified.  Well every one of us feels you are justified, and will support you.  Waiting will neither change him, nor provide you with any more money than you have today.  The only thing that will be different if you wait is there will be more damage to you and your daughter.  I can't be certain but I'm betting once you go and you tell us where you are, there are people here who would be willing to contact affiliate churches and such to try to get you some of the things you need.

Hi,
I wanted to call today like you said but I had to do a few last minute things (ie.. wash some clothes so we had some to take with us, we don't have much and everything was dirty and I wanted to move a couple of last things to storage).  Anyway I was so stressed out all day and it turned into one of those days when if anything could it did and my few tasks ended up taking all day.

I am planning on calling tommorrow, please pray for me to have strength and courage!  Pray please most of all that they will take me and not tell me that my situation isn't good enough to go- I am so worried about that!  I just need to get through tonight and tommorrow morning with him and then I pray freedom and peace (although to be honest I am scared out of my mind!).

Well it sounds as if you are doing well.  I remember when I left, I was SO scared and had that hot head-rush kind of feeling like my world had just ended.  But sometimes that's not such a bad thing, ya know?  The old ends, a new begins.

Where is it you are calling tomorrow?  A shelter/place to stay?  I'd like to know where you're going, just because :)

Quote from: Seeking on Tue Sep 02, 2008 - 18:50:53
Well it sounds as if you are doing well.  I remember when I left, I was SO scared and had that hot head-rush kind of feeling like my world had just ended.  But sometimes that's not such a bad thing, ya know?  The old ends, a new begins.

Where is it you are calling tomorrow?  A shelter/place to stay?  I'd like to know where you're going, just because :)

A shelter, I tried calling my dad but it took him 2 wks to get back to me the 1st time (2 wks ago) finally called me after 2 voice mails and 2 emails and gave me about 30 seconds of time.  This time I sent an email last Wed. and left a voice mail but still nothing.  Hopefully "In Jesus Name" the shelter will take us and they will also help with the legal stuff!

Why is your dad like that?  Is this kind of treatment in your past that you inadvertently picked the same kind of man?  I just wondered after what you just wrote.  I did exactly that, hard as I tried not to sometimes you just are drawn to what you know, even when it's bad for you.  Do you have OTHER family you can call?

I am a nosey thing so... I thought I'd get you some information in case you didn't already know these things.

I called the Women in Distress, the shelter for your county.  You have to call the day you are leaving and do a hotline call and have an assessment.  They cannot hold beds, they don't guarantee them but it didn't sound like they didn't have any either.  If there isn't a bed, they have other resources.  Their goal is to help you get on your feet so you can start a new life.  You are permitted to stay up to 90 days as long as you follow their rules.  They will help you get a job and find daycare.  There are resources available to help with daycare while you look for a job.  They have legal resources also.  They did confirm you cannot take your daughter out of state; there are more legal details available regarding that and filing for separation, protections from abuse, etc.

Don't forget that you don't necessarily have to stay in the county, you could try to get a shelter a little further north.  That's a smidgen closer to home, and further away from your husband.  Those links Trueblue sent you are still at the beginning of this thread.

I hope this helps calm you a little.

When you are ready to go, make sure you delete your history and cache from your computer if you don't take it with you.  If your storage unit has your home address on it, change it quickly so they don't contact him or he finds out and convinces them to give him a key.  Maybe get a PO Box and put in an immediate change of address.

God Bless You Kim!

Quote from: Seeking on Tue Sep 02, 2008 - 19:28:43
Why is your dad like that?  Is this kind of treatment in your past that you inadvertently picked the same kind of man?  I just wondered after what you just wrote.  I did exactly that, hard as I tried not to sometimes you just are drawn to what you know, even when it's bad for you.  Do you have OTHER family you can call?

I am a nosey thing so... I thought I'd get you some information in case you didn't already know these things.

I called the Women in Distress, the shelter for your county.  You have to call the day you are leaving and do a hotline call and have an assessment.  They cannot hold beds, they don't guarantee them but it didn't sound like they didn't have any either.  If there isn't a bed, they have other resources.  Their goal is to help you get on your feet so you can start a new life.  You are permitted to stay up to 90 days as long as you follow their rules.  They will help you get a job and find daycare.  There are resources available to help with daycare while you look for a job.  They have legal resources also.  They did confirm you cannot take your daughter out of state; there are more legal details available regarding that and filing for separation, protections from abuse, etc.

Don't forget that you don't necessarily have to stay in the county, you could try to get a shelter a little further north.  That's a smidgen closer to home, and further away from your husband.  Those links Trueblue sent you are still at the beginning of this thread.

I hope this helps calm you a little.

When you are ready to go, make sure you delete your history and cache from your computer if you don't take it with you.  If your storage unit has your home address on it, change it quickly so they don't contact him or he finds out and convinces them to give him a key.  Maybe get a PO Box and put in an immediate change of address.

God Bless You Kim!

Yes my dad has always been like that, when I was a child he was always more interested in his own things than family stuff.  If he had to help with homework or play or something like that it would almost always end with him getting mad.  I remember when I was very young (it's strange but I don't have very many clear memories of childhood, I can't seem to remember a whole lot except for certain things that stand out in my head) and was just learning to tie my own shoes, we were leaving to visit family and he insisted I do it by myself but when I couldn't he picked up my shoe and threw it at my face and then walked out the door.  I do have memories of being afraid of him when I was young.  For the most part I was very much alone when I was a child, I was quiet and ignored by family often and felt rejected so I spent alot of time by myself doing crafts and listening to music.  By the time I was a teenager I didn't want to even speak to my father and didn't from about the age of 15 to 24 or 25.  I always suspected that he may have mistreated my mother (way before he cheated and left), I remember lots of screaming and sometimes crying coming from the closed bedroom door but no one ever said anything about it (my mom included) and we weren't allowed to go in unless invited so it just became a part of life.

I guess maybe I set myself up and kept blinding myself to the kind of men I chose- I look back and remember certain things and I know that I excused/ignored certain signs that were there early on.

I don't have anyone else to call, my brother isn't really into getting involved, my sister I kind of don't trust and my mom would help but she has no resources (she really got done over in my parents divorce).  I put my mom's address on the storage unit and I am trying to get a PO Box if there is time 1st.

I am worried about the not being able to leave the state and what I will do after the 90 days, I know wouldn't be the right option to stay but being all alone and not knowing anyone within over 15000 miles is very intimidating, I have a social anxiety and I haven't worked in more then 5 years.  I am having a bit of a hard time breathing right now thinking of all this

Your situation is so different from mine.  You are alone and wish there were family to turn to.  I had family and friends but most didn't want involved, and my family actually helped my ex try to take my son from me and in many other ways made our life worse than it was being married to my ex.  Being alone would have at least removed the obstacles they enjoyed giving me.  I used to hear them talking on the phone, laughing about it.

I know you are scared, and it isn't going to be easy.  Without the shelter you still have the same things such as food, money, housing to figure out; at least the shelter buys you time - 90 days to save money and get on your feet.  I believe they have other places that work in conjunction with them, and perhaps they also help you find HUD housing.  They'll help you file for separation, at which time there will be a custody hearing.  That's when you can ask to return home.  I'd file for full custody because of the risk of him ending up in prison; your ex won't win custody, maybe partial or visitation at the most, with his abuse and his criminal record.

The family in NJ doesn't exactly sound like a supportive family other than your mom.  Even though your mother doesn't have resources, can you stay with her?  I mean, otherwise you'd have to pay rent somewhere so if you could stay with your mom that's a big help right there, you're going to have to work and stuff anyway but it would be easier.

I know the hard-time-breathing feeling.  Remember that every day of freedom will make you breathe easier.  At first you'll be very nervous but with each day of NOT having to worry about the next mood swing, the next threat, the fear of what kind of mood he'll come home in... it will let you heal.  Don't be afraid of work - it's like riding a bicycle :)  In fact I think you'll find it rather liberating not to be at his mercy for money.  There might even be programs to help send you back to school if that were something you'd want to do.  Suddenly you will have all kinds of options, and choices, instead of none.  And best of all... no more incidents like this morning with your daughter.