Christian Forums

Quote from: marc on Tue Aug 04, 2009 - 16:28:07
LSO, I'm not sure what you're talking about. 

Just sometimes, ( may be my ) you seem to be a little mad, if we do not agree on Obama. I try and pray for you and your pain, and you never acknowledge me. I would be gratefull if someone cared about me enough. I do not want applause or anything, it just kind of makes me feel hurt, I guess. If any misperception on my part, I offer sincere apologies. Obama is just a man, and the thing is he is vet controversial, and somethings are strange, and he is evasive. I do not know if you are African American or not, do not care. I understand how African Americans are so proud, of the fact, that a black man won. I really understand that, wish I could have voted for him myself. I guess sometimes, people just seem so mad, over an innocent debate. Face it we Will not change things. If you are talking about the Major in the Army, who refused to follow orders, and was just reassigned. I am telling you Marc, that does not happen, without severe consequences.

What major?

Okay.  I googled "major" and "birther" and found the name "Stefan Cook", then used this to find the story.

Good grief.

You think the Army's going to leave this nutcase in a battlefront command position after he claims that if he follows Obama's orders it will make him liable to prosecution as a war criminal? 

This is a guy who has got himself reassigned by proving that he's not fit for combat command.  That's all.

And then his civilian employer fired him (big surprise) over his actions, and he's claiming conspiracy and suing.

What's this supposed to prove, again?

Quote from: phoebe on Tue Aug 04, 2009 - 10:52:46

Quote from: marc on Tue Aug 04, 2009 - 09:31:01
Again, the legal birth certificate has been released.  It's that simple.

I wouldn't respond to these silly insults either.

No, that is not a legal birth certificate.

The request is not "silly", not are they "insults".  What a bogus argument for not releasing!  Nor was the certification any of the other documents he keeps in secret.

And he could make it all go away if he chose.  I think he likes the distraction from what he's actually doing to us, as if we can't keep our own all-seeing-eye on him and all he is doing.


Again, what he released was not a legal birth certificate.

How do you know that the certificate of live birth, which is readily available for everyone to view on the internet, is not a legal birth certificate?

I assume, unless you are an employee of the state of Hawaii records department, that you are taking someone else's word for that.  Whose word are you taking?

I think that's a fair question to you - if you are going to call the President a liar, certainly you would be willing to tell everyone just whose word you're taking.

Who, exactly, has determined for you that the birth certificate is not a birth certificate?  Can you actually point to any credible evidence to back up your claim?

The director of the Hawaii State Department of Health told you that he'd personally seen the original record.  In fact, he told you that twice.  Why do you believe him to be a liar?

The Republican governor of Hawaii has told you that it's real.  Why do you believe her to be a liar?

Quote from: marc on Tue Aug 04, 2009 - 18:14:37
Okay.  I googled "major" and "birther" and found the name "Stefan Cook", then used this to find the story.

Good grief.

You think the Army's going to leave this nutcase in a battlefront command position after he claims that if he follows Obama's orders it will make him liable to prosecution as a war criminal? 

This is a guy who has got himself reassigned by proving that he's not fit for combat command.  That's all.

And then his civilian employer fired him (big surprise) over his actions, and he's claiming conspiracy and suing.

What's this supposed to prove, again?

marc, it is not a good grief about the Major. Are you familiar with the Military? If not well let me feel you in my husband being an officer. You just, do not say no. They would bring you up on charges, possibly treason. They just would not reassign a person who refused to obey orders. birthers? teabaggers? Those are such stupid terms used by leftwing extremist. disrespectful just like the left acts in general, rude.

 JohnB,  oranyone who has been an officer in the Military. please explain to Marc, you just do not say no to orders without severe consequences. Especially at the rank of Major. Please, please, it is so delusional to think you can do that.

LSO, I was born to military parents.

And while you don't say no to the military, they certainly can say no to you!

If he had shown up in a dress with a dog and picnic basket, singing, "We're off to see the wizard..." he likely would have "got his way" and not gone to Afghanistan as well.  And that's pretty much what he did.

I'd watch calling others delusional if I were you. Doesn't make for a reasoned discussion, you know.

Quote from: marc on Tue Aug 04, 2009 - 21:22:20
...

I'd watch calling others delusional if I were you. Doesn't make for a reasoned discussion, you know.

Neither does calling others "kooks", "loonies" and "crazies", as is common when referring to those who seek the transparency Obama promised.

Quote from: marc on Tue Aug 04, 2009 - 21:22:20
LSO, I was born to military parents.

And while you don't say no to the military, they certainly can say no to you!

If he had shown up in a dress with a dog and picnic basket, singing, "We're off to see the wizard..." he likely would have "got his way" and not gone to Afghanistan as well.  And that's pretty much what he did.

I'd watch calling others delusional if I were you. Doesn't make for a reasoned discussion, you know.

Quote from: marc on Tue Aug 04, 2009 - 21:22:20
LSO, I was born to military parents.

And while you don't say no to the military, they certainly can say no to you!

If he had shown up in a dress with a dog and picnic basket, singing, "We're off to see the wizard..." he likely would have "got his way" and not gone to Afghanistan as well.  And that's pretty much what he did.

I'd watch calling others delusional if I were you. Doesn't make for a reasoned discussion, you know.

Apparently the so-called Major re-enlisted solely in order to denigrate his commander-in-chief.

The 'honor' of military servicemen is something else that has been redefined.  

Quote from: kmv on Tue Aug 04, 2009 - 21:43:42
The 'honor' of military servicemen is something else that has been redefined.  

Unless you know him or know his motive to be a factual lie, I do not think it is right for you to question his honor.

Were you ever an officer in the military? If not, what would you know about honor among our finest men and woman who are officers in the U.S. military?

I can assure you, if you have never lived it or viewed from a subordinate role, you do not know.

I would be willing to say that if the common person were held accountable to the standards of the Code of Honor and Ethics of the U.S. Armed services, most would be discharged.

Quote from: Mac on Wed Aug 05, 2009 - 00:13:52

Quote from: kmv on Tue Aug 04, 2009 - 21:43:42
The 'honor' of military servicemen is something else that has been redefined. 

Unless you know him or know his motive to be a factual lie, I do not think it is right for you to question his honor.

Were you ever an officer in the military? If not, what would you know about honor among our finest men and woman who are officers in the U.S. military?

I can assure you, if you have never lived it or viewed from a subordinate role, you do not know.

I would be willing to say that if the common person were held accountable to the standards of the Code of Honor and Ethics of the U.S. Armed services, most would be discharged.

'Major' Cook volunteered for duty in Afghanistan in May, knowing that President Obama is his commander-in-chief, then one month later pulled his oh-so-public stunt.

'Major' Cook chose his political publicity stunt over the morale and well-being of the men and women under his command.  He chose his hard-right, birther politics over his duty to his country.

His actions are the very definition of dishonorable.  To excuse his actions is the very definition of dishonorable.

Quote from: leeford on Sun Aug 02, 2009 - 14:53:06
Hotrod, the right is your own to be intellectually dishonest about the amount Barack has spent. Even someone casually familiar with the price of lawyers knows that the money he spent on lawyers during the campaign and against Democrat Phil Berg during and after amount to many hundreds of thousands. As I said before, CNN, MSNBC and Fox News have all said that the amount Obama has spent in legal fees to keep from having to show his birth certificate to the public is nearing 1 million dollars. You can choose to ignore that or not.

So Hotrod, I have three questions. I'm sure that it makes me a nutjob since I question something that a liberal is or is not doing, but that's life.

1. Do you think it shows integrity and transparency for Barack Obama to make it an issue for McCain to produce his birth certificate and confirm with the proper authorities that he was a natural born citizen, yet Obama himself refuses to provide the same information and has hired a legal team to keep him from having to do what he demanded of John McCain?

2. Can you give me a good reason for Barack Obama to refuse to provide his birth certificate?

3. What would he not want for people to see that his birth certificate would reveal?

Amazing. A accusation is posted based on a nonexisting study, and it's me that is accused of being intellectually dishonest simply because I pointed it out the study does not exist.

...I mean where to I go from here in trying to have a fact based civil discourse?

The idea of all the "evidence" found to be fradulent put out by the birther nutjobs should be a sign.

Funny, but I'm going to be an extra in a movie tomorrow (I've grown out of "extra" parts but need the money) and I have to bring my birth certificate for the payroll documents so that I can get paid.

I couldn't help but think that Barack Obama couldn't be an extra in this movie because he won't show anyone his birth certificate. Amazing that I have to prove my citizenship more to be an extra in a movie than to be President of the United States. If a Republican were pulling this mess there's no way liberals would ask, "Why should he?" What a joke.

Quote from: Hotrod on Wed Aug 05, 2009 - 13:31:38
The idea of all the "evidence" found to be fradulent put out by the birther nutjobs should be a sign.

"nutjobs" is highly offensive.

People just want what he promised them - transparency and truth.

Dems seemed to think by attaching derogatory terms to these seekers names like "nutjobs", "kooks", "loonies", and "angry mobs" that they can invalidate them as US citizens, that their questions and opinions and desires for this country don't matter.

"No, sir, no."

We matter. We will be heard. We will get answers.

Quote from: leeford on Wed Aug 05, 2009 - 17:03:33
Funny, but I'm going to be an extra in a movie tomorrow (I've grown out of "extra" parts but need the money) and I have to bring my birth certificate for the payroll documents so that I can get paid.

I couldn't help but think that Barack Obama couldn't be an extra in this movie because he won't show anyone his birth certificate. Amazing that I have to prove my citizenship more to be an extra in a movie than to be President of the United States. If a Republican were pulling this mess there's no way liberals would ask, "Why should he?" What a joke.

Phoebe wasn't able to answer this question; perhaps you can.

What leads you to believe that the birth certificate readily available to view on the internet is not really President Obama's birth certificate?

Do you have some special knowledge of Hawaiian state records?  Are you relying on someone else's knowledge?

Quote from: leeford on Wed Aug 05, 2009 - 17:03:33
Funny, but I'm going to be an extra in a movie tomorrow (I've grown out of "extra" parts but need the money) and I have to bring my birth certificate for the payroll documents so that I can get paid.

I couldn't help but think that Barack Obama couldn't be an extra in this movie because he won't show anyone his birth certificate. Amazing that I have to prove my citizenship more to be an extra in a movie than to be President of the United States. If a Republican were pulling this mess there's no way liberals would ask, "Why should he?" What a joke.

...funny, I don't recall any other president having to provide their birth certificate. So you having to provide a birth certificate to be an extra in a movie is more then what any other president has had to offer for employment.

The idea that he is the execption and needs to satisfy the same "Obama is a secret Muslim" nuttery crowd is absurd.

Quote from: phoebe on Wed Aug 05, 2009 - 17:36:04

Quote from: Hotrod on Wed Aug 05, 2009 - 13:31:38
The idea of all the "evidence" found to be fradulent put out by the birther nutjobs should be a sign.

"nutjobs" is highly offensive.

People just want what he promised them - transparency and truth.

Dems seemed to think by attaching derogatory terms to these seekers names like "nutjobs", "kooks", "loonies", and "angry mobs" that they can invalidate them as US citizens, that their questions and opinions and desires for this country don't matter.

"No, sir, no."

We matter. We will be heard. We will get answers.

"nutjobs" is highly appropiate.

Neither Phoebe nor Leeford were able to answer my question; can any birther?

For those of you who believe that the Obama birth certificate available on line is not legitimate, on what evidence do you base your opinion?

If you're willing to go around claiming that the president hasn't been transparent, that he hasn't provided the requested birth certificate, that there is any reason whatsoever for sane people to question his birth, surely you can tell how you know.

Quote from: kmv on Thu Aug 06, 2009 - 07:30:26
Neither Phoebe nor Leeford were able to answer my question; can any birther?

For those of you who believe that the Obama birth certificate available on line is not legitimate, on what evidence do you base your opinion?

If you're willing to go around claiming that the president hasn't been transparent, that he hasn't provided the requested birth certificate, that there is any reason whatsoever for sane people to question his birth, surely you can tell how you know.

First, I am not a birther. As you call it.. I do find it interesting though...

Can you prove your argument as well? Look at this link... Bottom line is, I can't prove anything.. Neither can you. It is TOO easy to put this problem to bed. We ALL have an official recording of our birth. All he has to do is provide it. I know you will shoot down the link I provided.. I did it for a reason though. You may say it is not real. How do you know? Why won't they just release his birth certificate and do away with this problem? I am all for moving on...

I was never apart of this birth certificate thing. Only read about it on-line. But I do find it interesting how so many people can fall in behind BO and defend him when they do not know. If the birth certificate is a forgery below, it goes to prove how easy it is to do...

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=105764

Quote from: Mac on Thu Aug 06, 2009 - 08:08:27

Quote from: kmv on Thu Aug 06, 2009 - 07:30:26
Neither Phoebe nor Leeford were able to answer my question; can any birther?

For those of you who believe that the Obama birth certificate available on line is not legitimate, on what evidence do you base your opinion?

If you're willing to go around claiming that the president hasn't been transparent, that he hasn't provided the requested birth certificate, that there is any reason whatsoever for sane people to question his birth, surely you can tell how you know.

First, I am not a birther. As you call it.. I do find it interesting though...

Can you prove your argument as well? Look at this link... Bottom line is, I can't prove anything.. Neither can you. It is TOO easy to put this problem to bed. We ALL have an official recording of our birth. All he has to do is provide it. I know you will shoot down the link I provided.. I did it for a reason though. You may say it is not real. How do you know? Why won't they just release his birth certificate and do away with this problem? I am all for moving on...

I was never apart of this birth certificate thing. Only read about it on-line. But I do find it interesting how so many people can fall in behind BO and defend him when they do not know. If the birth certificate is a forgery below, it goes to prove how easy it is to do...

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=105764

The state of Hawaii has certified that the copy found online is legitimate.   The Republican governor of Hawaii has said that it is legitimate.  The head of the department of records has said that he's seen the official info with his own eyes - twice.

So, in all seriousness, what evidence to birthers have to back up their claim that the published copy is not a 'real' birth certificate?

I thought this was interesting. Just received it via email the other day, but just read it lastnight.

http://noiri.blogspot.com/2009/08/still-unverified-update-on-kenyan-birth.html

Chuck Norris has an excellent article/personal opinion on this debate.  Chuck is a person who believes that Obama is a citizen of the US born on native soil and is thus qualified by birth to be president of the US.  In his article he says this:

QuoteOf course, not every U.S. citizen has access to his original birth certificate, but you do, and yours is the only one under debate. As valuable as copies can be, textual critics know that nothing outweighs an original, especially when only it contains the information under question.

Again, why don't you simply request, release and give permission to make public your original birth certificate?

Mr. President, you promised the American people that you are "committed to creating an unprecedented level of openness in Government." In fact, in your July 23 prime-time news conference, you said that your administration has been more transparent than previous administrations: "I think that we have provided much greater transparency than existed prior to our administration coming in."  So again, I ask: Why not live out that transparency promise by posting your original birth certificate and end the division and debate?

The entire article is found at:
http://www.creators.com/conservative/chuck-norris/what-obama-and-my-wife-have-in-common.html

His arguments in the article are right on as to why Obama needs to produce a certified copy.  If Obama continues to refuse to produce the certified copy, then he is fueling the fires of division in the US and is purposely using this divisive issue to take the heat off of his "hidden agenda."

Memmy,

V E R Y  I N T E R E S T I N G !

Should be interesting to see how much cover up occurs on this one!!!  We all know the Clintons have always been willing to break the law in order to push their agendas!  Maybe an impeachment really is forseeable in the future.

Quote from: kmv on Thu Aug 06, 2009 - 09:13:48

Quote from: Mac on Thu Aug 06, 2009 - 08:08:27

Quote from: kmv on Thu Aug 06, 2009 - 07:30:26
Neither Phoebe nor Leeford were able to answer my question; can any birther?

For those of you who believe that the Obama birth certificate available on line is not legitimate, on what evidence do you base your opinion?

If you're willing to go around claiming that the president hasn't been transparent, that he hasn't provided the requested birth certificate, that there is any reason whatsoever for sane people to question his birth, surely you can tell how you know.

First, I am not a birther. As you call it.. I do find it interesting though...

Can you prove your argument as well? Look at this link... Bottom line is, I can't prove anything.. Neither can you. It is TOO easy to put this problem to bed. We ALL have an official recording of our birth. All he has to do is provide it. I know you will shoot down the link I provided.. I did it for a reason though. You may say it is not real. How do you know? Why won't they just release his birth certificate and do away with this problem? I am all for moving on...

I was never apart of this birth certificate thing. Only read about it on-line. But I do find it interesting how so many people can fall in behind BO and defend him when they do not know. If the birth certificate is a forgery below, it goes to prove how easy it is to do...

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=105764

The state of Hawaii has certified that the copy found online is legitimate.   The Republican governor of Hawaii has said that it is legitimate.  The head of the department of records has said that he's seen the official info with his own eyes - twice.

So, in all seriousness, what evidence to birthers have to back up their claim that the published copy is not a 'real' birth certificate?

The "Republican" governor of Hawaii has a lot to be desired as a Republican.  Using her position/name does not give any credibility to your case.

Obama can lay this to rest.  But he hasn't.  Why?  Because he thinks we can't keep an eye on him AND on his records at the same time.  I've got news for him.  We're all watching everything he does like hawks.  In case you don't know, hawks can see and hear amazing things from amazing distances.

Once he clears up the birth certificate issue, we will move on to the next thing.  So don't think silencing this issue is going to be the end of it.  He promised transparency.  We're holding him to it.  If he keeps this one, small thing a secret issue, imagine what big secrets he's keeping.  if he wants the support of the American people, we have to know he can be trusted.  WE DON'T KNOW THAT, AND WE DON'T..

Nothing like forcing a president to keep his promises, eh.

Quote from: kmv on Thu Aug 06, 2009 - 09:13:48
The state of Hawaii has certified that the copy found online is legitimate.   The Republican governor of Hawaii has said that it is legitimate.  The head of the department of records has said that he's seen the official info with his own eyes - twice.

I am Albert Einstein. There, it is official. I said it. So it must be true.

That is what I am talking about. You run around calling people "loons", "crazy", "mean", etc... all based on anothers word. It wouldn't be the first time in history a person in an official position lied to protect someone of interest. You have NEVER seen the document in question. Neither have I. So, I can't, with 100% proof, say either side has more validity than the other. Just like you...

Remember when Bush had to provide "Proof" about his attendance in the Guard? Remember that even the official military documents were questioned. It took the commander of operations that he served under to say, "Yes, he was here and served". This type of stuff has happened before. Remember CBS and their fake documents? Funny, I haven't seen any reports of the Kenyan Birth certificate on CBS... Simply amazing....

Again, why not just provide a birth certificate to end this debate. I have to provide them to sign my child up for football. Or to get their drivers licence. An unofficial copy will not do. I ordered a notarized copy of my middle son's b/c through the state.

Having to provide one is just part of life. Obama is no different than you or I. I wish people would stop acting as if he is above it.

Quote from: kmv on Thu Aug 06, 2009 - 09:13:48
So, in all seriousness, what evidence to birthers have to back up their claim that the published copy is not a 'real' birth certificate?

First, There has never been a "Birth Certificate" provided. An official birth certificate, the one that the government requires for proof of identity, is a state sealed, notarized, legal document. What was provided was NOT a qualified BC. The public and private schools will not allow you to enroll your children without a Certified (State stamped and notarized) Birth certificate.

Again, Obama is making this an issue. It would be to easy to stop this... As long as he continues to avoid it, the larger the "movement" will grow.

Quote from: phoebe on Thu Aug 06, 2009 - 09:32:16

Quote from: kmv on Thu Aug 06, 2009 - 09:13:48

Quote from: Mac on Thu Aug 06, 2009 - 08:08:27

Quote from: kmv on Thu Aug 06, 2009 - 07:30:26
Neither Phoebe nor Leeford were able to answer my question; can any birther?

For those of you who believe that the Obama birth certificate available on line is not legitimate, on what evidence do you base your opinion?

If you're willing to go around claiming that the president hasn't been transparent, that he hasn't provided the requested birth certificate, that there is any reason whatsoever for sane people to question his birth, surely you can tell how you know.

First, I am not a birther. As you call it.. I do find it interesting though...

Can you prove your argument as well? Look at this link... Bottom line is, I can't prove anything.. Neither can you. It is TOO easy to put this problem to bed. We ALL have an official recording of our birth. All he has to do is provide it. I know you will shoot down the link I provided.. I did it for a reason though. You may say it is not real. How do you know? Why won't they just release his birth certificate and do away with this problem? I am all for moving on...

I was never apart of this birth certificate thing. Only read about it on-line. But I do find it interesting how so many people can fall in behind BO and defend him when they do not know. If the birth certificate is a forgery below, it goes to prove how easy it is to do...

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=105764

The state of Hawaii has certified that the copy found online is legitimate.   The Republican governor of Hawaii has said that it is legitimate.  The head of the department of records has said that he's seen the official info with his own eyes - twice.

So, in all seriousness, what evidence to birthers have to back up their claim that the published copy is not a 'real' birth certificate?

The "Republican" governor of Hawaii has a lot to be desired as a Republican.  Using her position/name does not give any credibility to your case.

Obama can lay this to rest.  But he hasn't.  Why?  Because he thinks we can't keep an eye on him AND on his records at the same time.  I've got news for him.  We're all watching everything he does like hawks.  In case you don't know, hawks can see and hear amazing things from amazing distances.

Once he clears up the birth certificate issue, we will move on to the next thing.  So don't think silencing this issue is going to be the end of it.  He promised transparency.  We're holding him to it.  If he keeps this one, small thing a secret issue, imagine what big secrets he's keeping.  if he wants the support of the American people, we have to know he can be trusted.  WE DON'T KNOW THAT, AND WE DON'T..

Nothing like forcing a president to keep his promises, eh.

Again, phoebe, what leads you to believe that the certificate online isn't legitimate?

Earlier, you said that the birth certificate available online wasn't a 'birth certificate'.  Why do you say that?  What evidence do you have for that belief?

You say that the official certification by the governor and the chief of the department of records of Hawaii isn't good enough for you.  What, exactly, do you expect to see before you acknowledge the president's birth?

As best I can tell, you refuse to believe official sources, refuse to believe the president himself, and are holding out for some unknown 'proof' that you don't want to specify.

How is what you're doing any different from me declaring that you just don't want Obama to be president because you're a racist bigot?  Sure, you could present evidence to the contrary, but I can simply declare that your evidence is not convincing, and refuse to believe you aren't a bigot.  

Quote from: Mac on Thu Aug 06, 2009 - 10:21:53

Quote from: kmv on Thu Aug 06, 2009 - 09:13:48
The state of Hawaii has certified that the copy found online is legitimate.   The Republican governor of Hawaii has said that it is legitimate.  The head of the department of records has said that he's seen the official info with his own eyes - twice.

I am Albert Einstein. There, it is official. I said it. So it must be true.

But you aren't Albert Einstein.  However, Dr. Chiyome Fukino is director of Hawaii's department of health.  She has stated, officially, that the birth certificate is legit.  That's what certified means.  So, according to the laws of the state of Hawaii, the birth certificate readily available is 'certified'.  It is the birth certificate. 

It is stamped - you can even see the raised seal stamped on the document here:

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

Let's review:

*The document readily available is certified by the authorized official of the State of Hawaii.
*The document readily available bears the raised seal of the state of Hawaii.
*Multiple officials of the state of Hawaii have declared officially that the document readily available is the official birth certificate.

What, exactly, do you and phoebe and wiley and chuch norris want to see?

Someone saying it's so doesn't make it so.  We know he was sworn in because we saw it - twice. 
There are many things missing from the document that was put online for us to accept as the real deal.

Look at your own certificate and begin listing the things you see.  Then list the things you see on his.  Lots of holes, n'est pas?

He needs to fill in those holes to be complete and transparent.  We want to see the certificate.  He wants to be transparent. What is the big deal that he won't be? Can you answer that?  Why won't he release his records (and I'm not talking about just the birth certificate)?

Don't be a blind follower.  The pied piper was led by blind followers, and look at where they all ended up.

 Marc, did you know in the military at the rank of Major, especially you just would not be moved if you refused to disobey an order. If you are unfit for the battlefield, they either realease you on a section 8, ( They do not let you give orders, or be around live ammunition) Or they bring you up on chargers maybe even treason. Funny too, two days before he was fit for the battlefield, that is until he raised a fuss. If brought up on charges you might even get, brought up on treason, refusing to obey an order. They do not move you, (LOL), that is all the proof I need, to know funny business is gong on. I also want to know where Obamas personal copy is at this time. He has had to have it, since in the recent past he has visited Kenya and other places.

Quote from: phoebe on Thu Aug 06, 2009 - 10:49:33
Someone saying it's so doesn't make it so.

Well, actually, the proper authorities saying that the certificate is legitimate does make it so.  That's what certified means.

Quote...There are many things missing from the document that was put online for us to accept as the real deal.

Look at your own certificate and begin listing the things you see.  Then list the things you see on his.  Lots of holes, n'est pas?

He needs to fill in those holes to be complete and transparent. 

Okay.  What are the holes that need to be filled?  What, exactly, do you need to see?

QuoteWe want to see the certificate.  ...

You can see the certificate.  It is readily available. 

You can see it here: http://msgboard.snopes.com/politics/graphics/birth.jpg

You can see it here: http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/n_obama_birth_certificate.htm

You can see it here: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/obama-birth.html

So what, exactly, is missing from this birth certificate?  Again, what is it you need to see?

I'm quite tired of being called racist if I don't approve of Obama, because those very same peple who call those who don't support his ways, are the ones who are making it a race issue.

Stop playing the race card! It is old, and needs to be put away to rest, or this country will NEVER be able to see someone for who they truly are without looking at color!

Quote from: memmy on Thu Aug 06, 2009 - 12:34:14
I'm quite tired of being called racist if I don't approve of Obama, because those very same peple who call those who don't support his ways, are the ones who are making it a race issue.

Stop playing the race card! It is old, and needs to be put away to rest, or this country will NEVER be able to see someone for who they truly are without looking at color!

I know Memmy, if you speak truth, and others cannot provide an answear, well your a racist. I find African Americans who defend Obama, just because he is black racist. It should not matter your color, right is right and wrong is wrong. I  had moderators call me that. I call it disrespect for blacks for those who play the race card, to, call it racist, and make real acts of racism seem like nothing but the garbage they throw out as racist.

Quote from: memmy on Thu Aug 06, 2009 - 12:34:14
I'm quite tired of being called racist if I don't approve of Obama, because those very same peple who call those who don't support his ways, are the ones who are making it a race issue.

Stop playing the race card! It is old, and needs to be put away to rest, or this country will NEVER be able to see someone for who they truly are without looking at color!

Sure, you claim not to be racist.  But your story is full of holes.  You need to fill in those holes to be complete and transparent.  What's the big deal that you won't provide proof that you aren't a racist? 

Why not live out that non-racist claim by providing proof that you aren't a racist, and ending the division and debate?

By refusing to produce proof that you aren't a racist, you are fueling the fires of division in the US and is purposely using this divisive issue to take the heat off of your "hidden agenda."

It is TOO easy to put this problem to bed. We ALL have proof of our lack of racism (if we really aren't racist). All you have to do is provide it.

I don't think accusing others of being racist is going to be tolerated by the Admin...