Is indulging in sensuality a carnal sin?

[Dave_UK]

You know what we chaps are like - some things we find very alluring, a caressing touch maybe, or manner of dress.  Doesn't Paul have some thing to say about sensuality?    It is only a very short step to our next "fall", if we let our minds dwell on unchaste thoughts.  How difficult life is!

[Alan]

You know what we chaps are like - some things we find very alluring, a caressing touch maybe, or manner of dress.  Doesn't Paul have some thing to say about sensuality?    It is only a very short step to our next "fall", if we let our minds dwell on unchaste thoughts.  How difficult life is!

Couldn't agree more! Modesty is a thing of the past, the capitalist societies of the west have exploited sexuality to the point that expose is now the new norm. I don't believe the idea of sensuality is shunned in the bible but rather reserved for a man and his wife in their private setting.

It becomes exponentially worse with each new generation.   

[4WD]

Alan, why single out capitalist societies?  Are Socialist societies any less exploitative in that regard?  I think not.  In fact it is the Left that has promoted that most directly.

[TonkaTim]

Alan, why single out capitalist societies?  Are Socialist societies any less exploitative in that regard?  I think not.  In fact it is the Left that has promoted that most directly.

4WD, I think that is a good question. Especially since the modern doctrine of libertine sexuality is sourced from the Principles of Communism & are being forced upon what was formerly known as Christendom.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm
— 21 —
What will be the influence of communist society on the family?

It will transform the relations between the sexes into a purely private matter which concerns only the persons involved and into which society has no occasion to intervene. It can do this since it does away with private property and educates children on a communal basis, and in this way removes the two bases of traditional marriage – the dependence rooted in private property, of the women on the man, and of the children on the parents.

And here is the answer to the outcry of the highly moral philistines against the "community of women". Community of women is a condition which belongs entirely to bourgeois society and which today finds its complete expression in prostitution. But prostitution is based on private property and falls with it. Thus, communist society, instead of introducing community of women, in fact abolishes it.


That first declaration is a duesy!:
"It will transform the relations between the sexes into a purely private matter which concerns only the persons involved and into which society has no occasion to intervene"

Notice it says persons? & not adults?

The end game is total debauched libertine permissiveness; as we see now being promoted from the very nations that were formerly called Christendom.



edit:

I don't believe the idea of sensuality is shunned in the bible but rather reserved for a man and his wife in their private setting.

I agree. I might add that it is also seems encouraged between a man & wife. The proverbs instructs us to "take pleasure in the wife of your youth". The blessings in Deuteronomy 28 tells us "Blessed shall be the fruit of thy body" "the increase of thy kine" which is a byproduct of taking "pleasure in the wife of your youth" 

It becomes exponentially worse with each new generation.

That wasn't always the case. As the gospel went out around the world increasing sexual morality become the norm. Now that declining sexual morality is the new norm, what has changed?

[Alan]

Alan, why single out capitalist societies?  Are Socialist societies any less exploitative in that regard?  I think not.  In fact it is the Left that has promoted that most directly.

Liberal or conservative, we live in a capitalist society.  My point is more directed toward governments that continuously lower their standards to accommodate the demands of the free world. Hollywood and western music were key players in moving this era of sexuality forward. 

[soterion]

Liberal or conservative, we live in a capitalist society.  My point is more directed toward governments that continuously lower their standards to accommodate the demands of the free world. Hollywood and western music were key players in moving this era of sexuality forward.

True, but I dare say this has happened in most all societies throughout history.

Without God being a key focus and guide, immodest sexuality will win out every time, whether in a person, a household, or a whole nation.

[TonkaTim]

My point is more directed toward governments that continuously lower their standards to accommodate the demands of the free world.

Alan, is that exactly true? or is it being forced upon a people who believe they are free?


Prime example; Sodomite marriage. When put to a referendum the people voted against it, even in California. It was forced upon the people by a tyranny of judges.

[TonkaTim]

Alan, is that exactly true? or is it being forced upon a people who believe they are free?


Prime example; Sodomite marriage. When put to a referendum the people voted against it, even in California. It was forced upon the people by a tyranny of judges.

Which was no different than the, removing Christianity from schools & the public discourse, abortion, etc. At the time given a referendum the people would have rejected all these things. So to me it is not that the people are clamoring for the governments to change but the governments are clamoring for the people to change.

[Alan]

Alan, is that exactly true? or is it being forced upon a people who believe they are free?


Prime example; Sodomite marriage. When put to a referendum the people voted against it, even in California. It was forced upon the people by a tyranny of judges.

Good point, even if doesn't affect the intent of my post. 


The government is quick to jump and change the governing laws to accommodate 1-3% of the population.

[TonkaTim]

Good point, even if doesn't affect the intent of my post. 


The government is quick to jump and change the governing laws to accommodate 1-3% of the population.

It doesn't & I didn't intend to change it because I agree with you. I felt the need to interject a point that coincides with it because it leads to a question you point to;

Who is this "1-3% of the population" that governments yield to & demands the people conform to?

[Alan]

It doesn't & I didn't intend to change it because I agree with you. I felt the need to interject a point that coincides with it because it leads to a question you point to;

Who is this "1-3% of the population" that governments yield to & demands the people conform to?

We know who they are but I don't think those are the people that Dave was referring to in his OP. I think he's referring to the girls in their skin tight yoga pants, girls in their thong bathing suits, etc, etc. 

[TonkaTim]

We know who they are but I don't think those are the people that Dave was referring to in his OP. I think he's referring to the girls in their skin tight yoga pants, girls in their thong bathing suits, etc, etc.

He is referring to that, the immediate problem of carnal desire.


I think it has to be far worse for our young folks now than it had been in very long time.



I'm old enough to remember when virtue was still glamorized & also old enough that my testosterone levels are no longer very problematic. ;) . But by being old enough to witness the dramatic changes in our societies my heart goes out for the youth. I can not imagine all the difficulties they now face with all the degraded new modern standards. My hope is that maybe folks could come to see problem, see the source of the problem. Reject them & it, return to Christ & holiness.

[Dave_UK]

As the O.P. , I thought it was Paul who had something to say about the issue of sensuality - but on reference to my Nelson's NKJV concordance, I see it is in Jude 17-19 : -

"But you, beloved, remember the words which were spoken before  by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ.  How they told you that there would be mockers in the last time who would walk according to their own ungodly lusts.  These are sensual persons who cause divisions, not having the Spirit." 

There is also a further mention in James 3:15-18 of different sorts of wisdom, I won't quote the lot, just : -

"...If you have have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth.  This wisdom does not come from above but is earthly sensual, demonic. For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil are there..."


So that ties it up doesn't it?  The Word is the sword of the Spirit - it points out our countless failings!  Christ is our only hope - more of Him and less of us!!!

[Texas Conservative]

He is referring to that, the immediate problem of carnal desire.


I think it has to be far worse for our young folks now than it had been in very long time.



I'm old enough to remember when virtue was still glamorized & also old enough that my testosterone levels are no longer very problematic. ;) . But by being old enough to witness the dramatic changes in our societies my heart goes out for the youth. I can not imagine all the difficulties they now face with all the degraded new modern standards. My hope is that maybe folks could come to see problem, see the source of the problem. Reject them & it, return to Christ & holiness.

Some of the women in yoga pants or leggings make me want to hurl.  Say no to leggings women, please!

[TonkaTim]

Say no to leggings !

Sounds like a great idea! 


It wasn't that long ago women wore them basically as undergarments. Under skirts & dresses. I thought that look was flattering, modest, yet stylish & cute.

Then somehow those undergarment became pants. Not flattering, modest, stylish, or cute when it looks like the only thing they are wearing is body paint.

[Texas Conservative]

Sounds like a great idea! 


It wasn't that long ago women wore them basically as undergarments. Under skirts & dresses. I thought that look was flattering, modest, yet stylish & cute.

Then somehow those undergarment became pants. Not flattering, modest, stylish, or cute when it looks like the only thing they are wearing is body paint.

Some are flattering in a way that I don't need to see.  Others .......no.

[Dave_UK]

I wss originally trying to find a Bible reference relevant to this issue - my concordance info was not helpful, I would have done better to "Google" on bible references.  However by accident I hit on the reference I wanted (coming eventually in my daily readings to Jude's epistle).  It's in Jude verse 23 : -

"There are others for whom your pity must be mixed with fear; hate the very clothing that is contaminated with sensuality."

Funny how attitudes change over the years - in very hot non-westernized societies it seems practical for women to go "topless" (e.g. in Papua?, parts of Polynesia? or the ancient Egyptian women wearing a sarong just up to the waist).  The attitude here seems to be "If you've got it (i.e.  a fine physique) - then flaunt it!".  Hence the figure-hugging garments with "arty" slits, that leave very little to imagination!    A quick passing glance  (Ooh fancy that!    Avert the eyes quickly!) is not as bad/damaging as a lengthy perusal in a mag of some scantily clad models picture!  Stop that drooling lad! 

[faroukfarouk]

I think he's referring to the girls in their skin tight yoga pants, girls in their thong bathing suits, etc, etc.

Probably. I take his general point indeed; it's also right that some wide bikinis actually show less than some stringy one-piece suits.Also I don't think the Lord wants us all to wear sackcloth, which would indicate legalism.

But the general point raised is important, certainly. After all, who among us as stated would disagree with 'indulging in carnality'?