Changes are happening!

[Dafydd]

In recent years, there has been more of a drift toward the types of "Holy Spirit guided consensus" meetings than I realized when I first started looking into this topic. Something like the "Quaker approach" (waiting on the leading of God before making decisions, as explained in my previous posts) is now being adopted by the WCC, some individual churches and the boards of some Christian charities and seems to be supported by the Pope. I see this as a real advance in the growth of the Kingdom of God. Although not confined to preterists, we preterists should strongly support this change from the "parliamentary" or "adversarial" method as it is, I believe, through decisions reached through "Holy Spirit consensus" that Christ will increasingly rule. The churches and Christian organisations now taking this approach are heading a spiritual revolution!

[4WD]

How are "Holy Spirit guided consensus" authenticated?

[Dafydd]

 Everything must, of course, conform to the Bible, but if several Christians pray for the Holy Spirit to guide their decisions and all reach the same conclusion, they can safely say with the early church that "It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us".

[4WD]

Everything must, of course, conform to the Bible, but if several Christians pray for the Holy Spirit to guide their decisions and all reach the same conclusion, they can safely say with the early church that "It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us".

And if they don't all reach the same conclusion then which conclusion will be the right conclusion?  No matter if several reach the same conclusion, there will always be one, perhaps outside of the several, who will pray for Holy Spirit guidance who will not reach the same conclusion.  All the different denominational religious organizations are convinced they have prayed for the Holy Spirit to guide their decisions and yet there remain all the different denominational religious organizations.

The "God told me...." is always to be rejected, whether that is one person making the claim or hundreds together making the claim. All one can do is to do the best that one can do to understand what conforms to God' word, the Bible. That can come only through diligent study of God's word.  The Holy Spirit has provided the guidance in God's word. There is a whole study of how the Holy Spirit works in the life of the believer, but I would argue that divine intervention or divine guidance apart from the Bible is not a work of the Holy Spirit.

[Amo]

World Christian Council

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Joh 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. 19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. 20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also. 21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me. 22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.

Joh 17:6  I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word..........
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.......
11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. 13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world................
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

Joh 18:33 Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again, and called Jesus, and said unto him, Art thou the King of the Jews? 34 Jesus answered him, Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me? 35 Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done? 36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Hmmmm?

[Rella]

And if they don't all reach the same conclusion then which conclusion will be the right conclusion?  No matter if several reach the same conclusion, there will always be one, perhaps outside of the several, who will pray for Holy Spirit guidance who will not reach the same conclusion.  All the different denominational religious organizations are convinced they have prayed for the Holy Spirit to guide their decisions and yet there remain all the different denominational religious organizations.

The "God told me...." is always to be rejected, whether that is one person making the claim or hundreds together making the claim. All one can do is to do the best that one can do to understand what conforms to God' word, the Bible. That can come only through diligent study of God's word.  The Holy Spirit has provided the guidance in God's word. There is a whole study of how the Holy Spirit works in the life of the believer, but I would argue that divine intervention or divine guidance apart from the Bible is not a work of the Holy Spirit.

+1, for the most part.

I am not understanding your " but I would argue that divine intervention or divine guidance apart from the Bible is not a work of the Holy Spirit."

While we have ALL been taught the holy bible is the inerrant works of God inspired people... (room for discussion on that)
just look at how many will claim divine guidence because of the bible and their particular interpretation thereby claiming it was Holy Spirit inspired.

Just sayin....

[4WD]

+1, for the most part.

I am not understanding your " but I would argue that divine intervention or divine guidance apart from the Bible is not a work of the Holy Spirit."

While we have ALL been taught the holy bible is the inerrant works of God inspired people... (room for discussion on that)
just look at how many will claim divine guidence because of the bible and their particular interpretation thereby claiming it was Holy Spirit inspired.

Just sayin....

I think this is what you intended.

To address your "not understanding", let me first say that I am a cessationist in terms of divine inspiration after the completion of the Holy Bible as it now exists.  Thus, it does not matter to me who might think that God spoke to them, I will reject it as being divine.  What they say may actually be 100% correct, but that still does not make it divinely inspired.  The help and guidance by the indwelling Holy Spirit is not exercised through divine inspiration.  That is a subject that we could spend some time on, but I will not do that here.

[Amo]

https://www.oikoumene.org/news/vatican-and-wcc-announce-details-of-visit-by-pope-francis

Article below from link above, emphasis is mine.

Vatican and WCC announce details of visit by Pope Francis

The Vatican and the World Council of Churches (WCC) on Tuesday revealed details of the 21 June landmark visit of Pope Francis, a visit the WCC described as "a gift to churches".

The Vatican and the World Council of Churches (WCC) on Tuesday revealed details of the 21 June landmark visit of Pope Francis, a visit the WCC described as "a gift to churches".

"The visit of His Holiness Pope Francis to the World Council of Churches in the year of our 70th anniversary, is an historical milestone in the search for Christian unity and for the cooperation among the churches for a world with peace and justice," said Rev. Dr Olav Fykse Tveit, WCC general secretary, at a press conference.

Due to illness, Cardinal Kurt Koch, president of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, was represented by Rev. Dr Andrzej Choromanski of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, who is also a consultant on the WCC's Faith and Order Commission.

"I think His Holiness wanted to participate in this anniversary to express his gratitude to the ecumenical movement that the WCC has made over 70 years as part of the world church movement," Choromanski.

"His Holiness is very much invested in the cause of Christian unity. He has said we should aim for an ecumenism that involves us walking together. When we walk together we pray together."

'Unique opportunity'

Tveit said, "This is a unique opportunity to share our gifts of fellowship with one another and with all our churches around the world. The relationships locally and globally will not be the same after this event".

"Therefore, we in the WCC are immensely grateful to His Holiness Pope Francis that he accepted our invitation to come to the WCC this year."

The landmark 21 June visit is only the third by a pope to the WCC, and the first time that such an occasion was dedicated to visiting the council.

"It is possible to have a wider horizon than our own church or people, it is possible to share a vision based on our Christian faith that brings us together and makes us able to do a lot together for the world," Tveit continued.

"One of the principles in the ecumenical movement, has been that we should do together what we can do together. Thus, it was easy to agree on a shared motto for this day of the pope visiting the World Council of Churches: 'Walking, praying, and working together.'"

WCC's 70th anniversary

As Pope Francis begins the fifth year of his papacy, the WCC is marking its 70th anniversary, and the pope's visit will cap celebrations of the ecumenical legacy and renewal of its promise coinciding with a meeting of its Central Committee, a key WCC governing body.

Bishop Charles Morerod, bishop of Lausanne, Geneva and Fribourg of the Roman Catholic Church said, "We have moved to a stage of mutual goodwill and the pope does not want us to rest on our laurels."

Pope Francis will arrive in Geneva at 10:30 a.m. on 21 June after which he will pray and meet with the WCC.

Pope Francis will then hold a mass at the Palexpo convention centre in Geneva at 5:30 p.m. that day and the pontiff will leave Switzerland from nearby Geneva airport at 8 p.m.

Pope Paul VI visited the WCC in 1969 and, in 1984, a visit was welcomed from Pope John Paul II.

The WCC brings together churches, denominations and church fellowships in more than 120 countries and territories throughout the world, representing over 560 million Christians, including most of the world's Orthodox churches, scores of Anglican, Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist and Reformed churches, as well as many united and independent churches.

While the bulk of the WCC's founding churches were European and North American, today most member churches are in Africa, Asia, the Caribbean, Latin America, the Middle East and the Pacific and there are now 348 member churches in the WCC.

The Roman Catholic Church is not a member of the WCC, but it is a member of its Faith and Order Commission and other commissions, and it and cooperates with the council in many organizations.

The WCC works with Catholics on issues of peace and migration in many parts of the world.

The acknowledged, accepted, and repeated title of His Holiness alone, should send up red warning flags. No one who truly understands the gospel of Jesus Christ, His Holiness, and our sinfulness, would ever refer to another sinful human being as His Holiness. Blasphemy, pure and simple. Yes, World "Christian" Council is a proper title for this organization. Though the "Christian" part should probably be removed.