The straightforward case against pro-choice that I've never heard anyone make

[Cally]

Many men put women in two camps.  One is a woman you want a relationship with.  The other is recreational use only.  Many women do not understand this.  Obviously, it isn't right for men to treat women this way.

That is messed up when that happens, but keep in mind, men are not usually the ones taught to have standards for character in the first place. If you asked most Christians, most (I find) don't even know that famous Proverbs 31 was actually written from a mother to a son: hence, it's actually there primarily to give a man a mental picture of what a godly wife is like. If men were taught how to hold a woman to a standard in the first place, probably a great deal more would think of women in terms of the right and wrong of her character versus her appeal for base sensuality -- "beauty is in vain, and charm is deceptive." Then, try seeing how many churches would dare teach a man to have standards for a submissive woman in front of a congregation of men and women, and I don't mean just in a broad teaching of "biblical gender roles," but REALLY teach the men in how to separate the good from the bad among women in terms of what to value for themselves, pull no punches (further, tell them to be disgusted for soiling themselves on a prostitute as Paul teaches in 1 Corinthians 6:13-20). It's very, very rare to hear men get candid talk about right and wrong with women compared to the reverse.

On topic, though, just look at what it says that Democrats tout abortion as their strongest issue. Kamala Harris is being a poster child for it too.

[Jaime]

On topic, though, just look at what it says that Democrats tout abortion as their strongest issue. Kamala Harris is being a poster child for it too.

Maybe Trump ought to refer to her as the Abortion Czar, alluding to her demonstrated "prowess" as Border Czar!
 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Many men put women in two camps.  One is a woman you want a relationship with.  The other is recreational use only.  Many women do not understand this.  Obviously, it isn't right for men to treat women this way.

What if the women treat themselves that way?

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

But as to your friend saying no to abstinence... YOU need to remind her that it was not you who said so but God.

Eh... the Bible is not very friendly to the idea of abstinence.

It tells us to "be fruitful and multiply" and it prohibits making oneself a eunuch.  God seems to want us to marry and engage in sex in monogamous relationships.

[Rella]

Eh... the Bible is not very friendly to the idea of abstinence.

It tells us to "be fruitful and multiply" and it prohibits making oneself a eunuch.  God seems to want us to marry and engage in sex in monogamous relationships.

I can only speak for myself and other people I know who never had the opportunity to marry.

It is not the married women, so much , that are doing the abortion thing.

It is the college girls, some high school girls, and those who never did marry but wanted to play who is sleeping with who.

God may have promoted marriage and procreation... that is very true....

But God also had the intention for some to never marry.

And then he puts this out there

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [a]homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

So dont give me that bull about "the Bible is not very friendly to the idea of abstinence."

Which BTW if you truly mean this, this is a perfect argument in support of Lee's book "Was Jesus Married?"

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

So dont give me that bull about "the Bible is not very friendly to the idea of abstinence."

It isn't.  Paul is the only Biblical author who seems to like the idea, and when he writes about it favorably, God compels him to footnote himself saying that he is giving his own opinion and not a message from God (1Co 7:12).

Which BTW if you truly mean this, this is a perfect argument in support of Lee's book "Was Jesus Married?"

Of course I mean it.  Also, I ordered a copy, but I never finished reading it.

[Rella]

It isn't.  Paul is the only Biblical author who seems to like the idea, and when he writes about it favorably, God compels him to footnote himself saying that he is giving his own opinion and not a message from God (1Co 7:12).
Of course I mean it.  Also, I ordered a copy, but I never finished reading it.

You should.

I have been following things for a long time on the subject.

Lee's is not the only book, but it is pretty well laid out to make the case.