The Massive Grand Canyon--It's Geneses

[Hobie]

As a world wide flood believer, I will also say I do not believe the Grand Canyon was carved from the Colorado river.

At the same time...I will say that if it came about during Noah's flood I also have a problem.

Other canyons similar to the Grand world wide have been described as
having rivers that carved them with no mention of a flood.

Well, if its a 'world wide' flood, they too would have been carved out at that time..

[Texas Conservative]

TEXAS CONSERVATIVE:

In Post #25, said, "Provide your reasoning for this 'spasmodic convulsion' theory or be quiet."

Not once have I attributed my expression, "spasmodic convulsion," as a direct uttering from the scriptures. Based on my biblical and non-biblical research of the Flood in Noah's day, I concluded my expression was accurate.

The entire Earth was affected by the flood, in a diversity of ways. Even human history agrees. Geneses 7:19 speaks of "the waters prevailed so mightily on the earth that all the high mountains under the whole heaven were covered."

What do you think might be interpreted from the term "mightily"? We all, including you, often in our biblical conversations use vocabulary not specifically found in the scriptures. But we usually understand what is being alluded to.

And please don't tell me to be quiet. My freedom of speech is as valid as yours. You may not agree with what I say or indicate, but I certainly have the freedom to say it.

Buff

You spend more time defending yourself, than your ideas. 

Your "preacher-ese" won't work here

[Reformer]

You spend more time defending yourself, than your ideas. 

Your "preacher-ese" won't work here

When a man is falsely accused by someone like you, he should defend himself. So keep the false accusations flowing in my direction and I will pick up my oar.

[Reformer]

TEXAS CONSERVATIVE

As a means of clarification regarding false accusations, you said in Post# 23, "No one can learn, if the person claiming something doesn't provide proof for their assertions. So, what are the proofs and reasons behind your assertion?"

In other words, according to you I'm making false unproven assertions.

[Rella]

Well, if its a 'world wide' flood, they too would have been carved out at that time..

This is not a flood discussion... it is about what was carved by a river... not the upheaval of water pushing up...

In every scientific hoopla about rivers carving ... there never is a mention of potential upheaval of volcanic activity... tye the Grand Canyon has lava rock to be found all over.

Im surprised scientist never said there is no activity now cause the Colorado river extinguished them over the years...

[Alan]

If people are "leaving the faith" because of posts like Buff's here I doubt they ever had saving faith in Jesus Christ.

It's a very well known fact that many peoples issues with Christianity are Christians themselves. The lunacy purported by the anti-evolutionists and anti-science cults are enough to turn anyone off aside from those that were well versed in Jesus himself. 

[Amo]

It's a very well known fact that many peoples issues with Christianity are Christians themselves. The lunacy purported by the anti-evolutionists and anti-science cults are enough to turn anyone off aside from those that were well versed in Jesus himself.

It is a well known scripturally established teaching and doctrine, that the majority of this world will reject the plain testimony and truths of holy scripture. It is therefore no surprise that many will turn away from conclusively stated bible truths, unto the speculative fables and fairy tales of prideful fallen humanity. Just as holy scripture has predicted and portrayed.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

2Pe 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: 2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: 3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

[Texas Conservative]

It's a very well known fact that many peoples issues with Christianity are Christians themselves. The lunacy purported by the anti-evolutionists and anti-science cults are enough to turn anyone off aside from those that were well versed in Jesus himself.

People's issues with Christianity are the teachings of Jesus.

Every other thing (the well known fact you mentioned) is just an excuse. 

Luke 12:49-53
[49]"I have come to cast fire upon the earth; and how I wish it were already kindled!
[50]But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is accomplished!
[51]Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division;
[52]for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three.
[53]They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."

[Texas Conservative]

TEXAS CONSERVATIVE

As a means of clarification regarding false accusations, you said in Post# 23, "No one can learn, if the person claiming something doesn't provide proof for their assertions. So, what are the proofs and reasons behind your assertion?"

In other words, according to you I'm making false unproven assertions.

In other words, you are making assertions without any proof to back up your claims.

[Reformer]

In other words, you are making assertions without any proof to back up your claims.

Just a reminder: "Not once have I attributed my expression, 'spasmodic convulsion,' as a direct uttering from the scriptures. Based on my biblical and non-biblical research of the Flood in Noah's day, I concluded my expression was accurate.

"We all, including you, often in our biblical conversations use vocabulary not specifically found in the scriptures. But we usually understand what is being alluded to."--Post 29.

[Cobalt1959]

There are preserved skeletons of giants that the government is hiding?

WS is not far off the beaten path.  They are supposed to be our parks, but the Forest Service tells you that you are not allowed to go off-trail.  Why?  If the parks belong to us, then why are we not allowed to go where we want to in them?  I can only speak to the parks in Arizona, but they have gotten more and more draconian when it comes to enforcing their "can't go there" laws that make absolutely no sense.  The Grand Canyon is basically one big Forbidden Zone, and not just on the ground, but for it's air space as well.  People die on the Bright Angel trail all the time and that's totally OK, but the other areas are too dangerous.  Or hiking there would have too much of a negative "impact."  But the Havasupai can turn their own tourist trap into a big garbage dump.  They also continue to try and curtail access to more and more of the Superstition  Mountains.  The USFS excuses for why they restrict so much access in National parks, beyond Yellowstone are unconvincing.

[Alan]

WS is not far off the beaten path.  They are supposed to be our parks, but the Forest Service tells you that you are not allowed to go off-trail.  Why?  If the parks belong to us, then why are we not allowed to go where we want to in them?  I can only speak to the parks in Arizona, but they have gotten more and more draconian when it comes to enforcing their "can't go there" laws that make absolutely no sense.  The Grand Canyon is basically one big Forbidden Zone, and not just on the ground, but for it's air space as well.  People die on the Bright Angel trail all the time and that's totally OK, but the other areas are too dangerous.  Or hiking there would have too much of a negative "impact."  But the Havasupai can turn their own tourist trap into a big garbage dump.  They also continue to try and curtail access to more and more of the Superstition  Mountains.  The USFS excuses for why they restrict so much access in National parks, beyond Yellowstone are unconvincing.

What is the excuse for the rest of the world where no evidence of giants have been found? 

[Jaime]

This is sort of unrelated, but disturbing about some of our parks and monuments, etc.

http://www.vlrc.org/articles/79.html

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

What is the excuse for the rest of the world where no evidence of giants have been found? 

Why do we have to turn all of the topics into something about giants?    Is that thread contagious or something?

[Texas Conservative]

Why do we have to turn all of the topics into something about giants?    Is that thread contagious or something?

I wonder if those giants believed that baptism is for the remission of sins?

[Jaime]

I wonder if those giants believed that baptism is for the remission of sins?

They would have if they were Pauline giants. Especially if washing away sins equals remission of sin. Acts 22:16.

https://revivedlife.com/is-remission-and-forgiveness-of-sins-the-same/amp/

[Rella]

What is the excuse for the rest of the world where no evidence of giants have been found? 

https://www.sciencealert.com/archaeologists-discover-the-ancient-remains-of-5-000-year-old-giants-in-china

The Ancient Remains of 5,000-Year-Old 'Giants' Discovered in China

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/graveyard-giants-found-china-180963976/

Graveyard of "Giants" Found in China
Many of the 5,000 year-old skeletons measured 5' 9" or longer, making the Neolithic humans exceptionally tall for that period


https://medium.com/understanding-reality/7-examples-of-proof-that-giants-existed-7e2de8806a0f

1. The Giants of Ecuador

Ecuadorian Giant Skeleton on display in a museum

In 2013, after heavy storms in Ecuador, a large female skull was found in Aloha province. Scientists determined the skull was approximately 600 years old. The discovery of the skull inspired a search for the rest of the skeleton, the parts of which were found and assembled a few weeks later. The skeleton stood at 7ft 4" tall, which was astounding, considering that the average height of a woman in those days was only 5ft 8".

Further research lead to the discovery of 5 more giant skeletons in the same area. All of the skeletons were between 7–8 feet tall, and were buried in deep, elaborate graves. They were found at two separate sites, leading scientists to conclude they were probably from two different tribes.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/121102-gigantism-ancient-skeleton-archaeology-history-science-rome

Ancient Roman Giant Found—Oldest Complete Skeleton With Gigantism
At six feet, eight inches, he would have towered over his contemporaries.

ByChristine Dell'Amore

It's no tall tale—the first complete ancient skeleton of a person with gigantism has been discovered near Rome, a new study says.

At 6 feet, 8 inches (202 centimeters) tall, the man would have been a giant in third-century A.D. Rome, where men averaged about 5 and a half feet (167 centimeters) tall. By contrast, today's tallest man measures 8 feet, 3 inches (251 centimeters).

So... conclusion.

There were no giants.


Then do the following mean other things can be discounted in the Holy Book?


Genesis 6:4 ~ The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.

Numbers 13:33 ~ And there we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak, who come from the Nephilim), and we seemed to ourselves like grasshoppers, and so we seemed to them."

Deuteronomy 1:28 ~ Where are we going up? Our brothers have made our hearts melt, saying, "The people are greater and taller than we. The cities are great and fortified up to heaven. And besides, we have seen the sons of the Anakim there."'

Deuteronomy 3:11 ~ (For only Og the king of Bashan was left of the remnant of the Rephaim. Behold, his bed was a bed of iron. Is it not in Rabbah of the Ammonites? Nine cubits was its length, and four cubits its breadth, according to the common cubit.)

2 Samuel 21:18 ~ After this there was again war with the Philistines at Gob. Then Sibbecai the Hushathite struck down Saph, who was one of the descendants of the giants.

Deuteronomy 2:21 ~ A people great and many, and tall as the Anakim; but the Lord destroyed them before the Ammonites, and they dispossessed them and settled in their place.

[Reformer]

I wonder if those giants believed that baptism is for the remission of sins?

Peter had something to say about that in Acts 2:38. Your interpretation?

One interpretation: Immersion in water confirms that one has accepted Jesus, not finalizing it.

[Reformer]

ATTENTION:

By the way, how did we wander so far from the initial topic, "The Massive Grand Canyon"?

Buff

[Jaime]

ATTENTION:

By the way, how did we wander so far from the initial topic, "The Massive Grand Canyon"?

Buff

The same question might could be asked of Christianity at large about the subject of baptism.

 

[Rella]

Peter had something to say about that in Acts 2:38. Your interpretation?

One interpretation: Immersion in water confirms that one has accepted Jesus, not finalizing it.

So  Peter said that "  Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."?/

And someone twisted that to " Immersion in water confirms that one has accepted Jesus, not finalizing it.

If we were to assume this suggested interpretation to be true...
then they , I would bet, are an anti-trin believer.

Question. Does God know every thought and in our minds and feeling in our heart and beliefs in our very souls?

[Texas Conservative]

ATTENTION:

We wandered so far away, or ran, ran so far away from the "The Massive Grand Canyon" for funsies.

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

https://www.sciencealert.com/archaeologists-discover-the-ancient-remains-of-5-000-year-old-giants-in-china

The Ancient Remains of 5,000-Year-Old 'Giants' Discovered in China

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/graveyard-giants-found-china-180963976/

Graveyard of "Giants" Found in China
Many of the 5,000 year-old skeletons measured 5' 9" or longer, making the Neolithic humans exceptionally tall for that period


https://medium.com/understanding-reality/7-examples-of-proof-that-giants-existed-7e2de8806a0f

1. The Giants of Ecuador

Ecuadorian Giant Skeleton on display in a museum

In 2013, after heavy storms in Ecuador, a large female skull was found in Aloha province. Scientists determined the skull was approximately 600 years old. The discovery of the skull inspired a search for the rest of the skeleton, the parts of which were found and assembled a few weeks later. The skeleton stood at 7ft 4" tall, which was astounding, considering that the average height of a woman in those days was only 5ft 8".

Further research lead to the discovery of 5 more giant skeletons in the same area. All of the skeletons were between 7–8 feet tall, and were buried in deep, elaborate graves. They were found at two separate sites, leading scientists to conclude they were probably from two different tribes.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/121102-gigantism-ancient-skeleton-archaeology-history-science-rome

Ancient Roman Giant Found—Oldest Complete Skeleton With Gigantism
At six feet, eight inches, he would have towered over his contemporaries.

ByChristine Dell'Amore

It's no tall tale—the first complete ancient skeleton of a person with gigantism has been discovered near Rome, a new study says.

At 6 feet, 8 inches (202 centimeters) tall, the man would have been a giant in third-century A.D. Rome, where men averaged about 5 and a half feet (167 centimeters) tall. By contrast, today's tallest man measures 8 feet, 3 inches (251 centimeters).

So... conclusion.

There were no giants.


Then do the following mean other things can be discounted in the Holy Book?


Genesis 6:4 ~ The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.

Numbers 13:33 ~ And there we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak, who come from the Nephilim), and we seemed to ourselves like grasshoppers, and so we seemed to them."

Deuteronomy 1:28 ~ Where are we going up? Our brothers have made our hearts melt, saying, "The people are greater and taller than we. The cities are great and fortified up to heaven. And besides, we have seen the sons of the Anakim there."'

Deuteronomy 3:11 ~ (For only Og the king of Bashan was left of the remnant of the Rephaim. Behold, his bed was a bed of iron. Is it not in Rabbah of the Ammonites? Nine cubits was its length, and four cubits its breadth, according to the common cubit.)

2 Samuel 21:18 ~ After this there was again war with the Philistines at Gob. Then Sibbecai the Hushathite struck down Saph, who was one of the descendants of the giants.

Deuteronomy 2:21 ~ A people great and many, and tall as the Anakim; but the Lord destroyed them before the Ammonites, and they dispossessed them and settled in their place.

My suspicions have been confirmed - the "Giants" topic is INDEED contagious and spreading.  Initiating CDC-recommended lockdown measures...

[Texas Conservative]

My suspicions have been confirmed - the "Giants" topic is INDEED contagious and spreading.  Initiating CDC-recommended lockdown measures...

Just wear a mask

[Cobalt1959]

What is the excuse for the rest of the world where no evidence of giants have been found? 

I find your response odd, and also a non sequitur, since I said absolutely nothing about giants.  How could you possibly divine from my post that I believed there were giants in the Grand Canyon?  I was speaking to the fact that our park service routinely bars us from entering large areas of our national parks that are supposed be our land.  They do this with no explanation and they do it with open hostility to those who don't think our access should be restricted.

But, of course, the forum still operates in the way it has for the last five years or so.  3 people actively preach patently false doctrines and worldly nonsense and then openly insult people who disagree with them.  You are one of those people and you are a moderator.  And you wonder why the board is a ghost town with maybe 10 people who actively post and 3 or 4 of those are drive-bys.  Go look in the mirror.  Your superior attitude and poor behavior are why the board is dead.  When it croaks for good, I'll send flowers.

[Reformer]

I find your response odd, and also a non sequitur, since I said absolutely nothing about giants.  How could you possibly divine from my post that I believed there were giants in the Grand Canyon?  I was speaking to the fact that our park service routinely bars us from entering large areas of our national parks that are supposed be our land.  They do this with no explanation and they do it with open hostility to those who don't think our access should be restricted.

But, of course, the forum still operates in the way it has for the last five years or so.  3 people actively preach patently false doctrines and worldly nonsense and then openly insult people who disagree with them.  You are one of those people and you are a moderator.  And you wonder why the board is a ghost town with maybe 10 people who actively post and 3 or 4 of those are drive-bys.  Go look in the mirror.  Your superior attitude and poor behavior are why the board is dead.  When it croaks for good, I'll send flowers.

Go easy, brother, you will find a diversity of dispositions, including yours and mine, on every thread. Tolerance is crucial in the circuit of communicating.

Buff

[Rella]

4WD:

My statement was in reference to your Post #19, "First of all, where do you find the information about that 'spasmodic revolution or convulsion' of the earth 4500 years ago?  That certainly is not something found in the biblical record or the geological record."

Nor will you specifically find my "spasmodic revolution or convulsion." But it is certainly inferred in the biblical story of the Flood. Now I think we might be  understanding each other better.

Buff

You know... by this time maybe we all should be aware but when any mention of the flood occurs I think it should be mentioned if you are a world wide believer of a regional believer.