Does Mary hear all the prayers from Roman Catholics?

[chandrus]

 

[Jaime]

Chandrus, is this necessary at this time?? Do we need another opportunity to the chafe the same raw emotions of the last week or so here on the boards?

[Tantor]

It's 50/50 whether she is even in heaven to begin with.

[charlie]

It's 50/50 whether she is even in heaven to begin with.

I'd say she's somewhere within earshot of the bosom of Abraham, which, as we all know, is close enough to the torments of hell to carry on a conversation.

I'm sure that if she got enough mail from here on earth that somebody up there can set up a desk with an inbox for her.

[Charles Sloan]

It's 50/50 whether she is even in heaven to begin with.

Now why would you say that?

[Tantor]

Because only God knows peoples hearts.  Just because she was chosen and accepted God's choice to be a vessel for Jesus does not negate the fact that she needed to accept Jesus as her savior and be one of the elect.

We dont know the hearts of people and should be wary to presume either way.

[Charles Sloan]

Because only God knows peoples hearts.  Just because she was chosen and accepted God's choice to be a vessel for Jesus does not negate the fact that she needed to accept Jesus as her savior and be one of the elect.

We dont know the hearts of people and should be wary to presume either way.

From what we know she was a disciple of Jesus, so I think the chances are slightly in her favor.

[John 1:1]

Yes she hears them and she told me that chandrus was a very bad man for stirring up trouble on these boards with this thread.  hehe.

[Tantor]

Because only God knows peoples hearts.  Just because she was chosen and accepted God's choice to be a vessel for Jesus does not negate the fact that she needed to accept Jesus as her savior and be one of the elect.

We dont know the hearts of people and should be wary to presume either way.

From what we know she was a disciple of Jesus, so I think the chances are slightly in her favor.

Maybe.. but we dont know.. so why take the chance?  God provided only one way into heaven and we need to focus our energies in that direction.

And I thought there were only 12 actual disciples?

[OkiMar]

I don't think she hears any of our prayers.

[Jon-Marc]

It doesn't matter whether she hears them or not; she can't answer them--only God can do that.

[BaLou]

Chandrus, is this necessary at this time?? Do we need another opportunity to the chafe the same raw emotions of the last week or so here on the boards?

I agree. What's the purpose of this question?

[Dave...]

Mary cannot hear your prayer.

We know this because God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are Omnipresent, Omniscient, and Omnipotent. Mary is none of the above.

The Holy Spirit, not Mary, is THE Sovereign distributer of all things, this includes Grace, faith, wisdom, peace, understanding, etc..

Everything that the Catholic church tells you can be achieved through prayer to Mary (which is idolatry) is in fact the ministry of the Holy Spirit, not Mary.

Power of the Holy Ghost, The
http://www.bible-topics.com/Power-of-the-Holy-Ghost-The.html

Holy Ghost, the Comforter, The
http://www.bible-topics.com/Holy-Ghost-the-Comforter-The.html

Holy Ghost, The Personality of
http://www.bible-topics.com/Holy-Ghost-The-Personality-of.html

Holy Ghost, the Teacher, The
http://www.bible-topics.com/Holy-Ghost-the-Teacher-The.html

Holy Ghost, The, is God
http://www.bible-topics.com/Holy-Ghost-The-is-God.html

Ephesians 3:12 in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him.

When we pray in the Spirit (Jude 20), we are praying according to God's will because He gave us our desires (Psalm 37:4), and makes known to our hearts what to pray (Ephesians 6:18). 

The Holy Spirit makes intercession for us, not Mary.

Romans 8:26-27 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

The only acceptable prayers are through Christ (in His name).

John 14:13-14 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask[c] anything in My name, I will do it. (Also see John 15:16, John 16:23-24)

Jesus, in teaching us how to pray and giving us an example, and I stress the word "example", tells us to pray to the Father, not using vain repetitions. Notice, in His teaching and example, nowhere is Mary mentioned.

Matthew 6:5-13 5 "And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 6 But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly. 7 And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words. 8 "Therefore do not be like them. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him. 9 In this manner, therefore, pray:

      Our Father in heaven,
      Hallowed be Your name.
      10 Your kingdom come.
      Your will be done
      On earth as it is in heaven.
      11 Give us this day our daily bread.
      12 And forgive us our debts,
      As we forgive our debtors.
      13 And do not lead us into temptation,
      But deliver us from the evil one.
      For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen

In all of scripture that teaches, talks of, or gives examples of prayer, Mary is never mentioned as part of the process.

Prayer
http://www.bible-topics.com/Prayer.html

Prayer, Answers to
http://www.bible-topics.com/Prayer-Answers-to.html

Prayer, Intercessory
http://www.bible-topics.com/Prayer-Intercessory.html

Prayer, Private
http://www.bible-topics.com/Prayer-Private.html

Prayer, Public
http://www.bible-topics.com/Prayer-Public.html

Prayer, Social and Family
http://www.bible-topics.com/Prayer-Social-and-Family.html

In Christ

Dave

[John 1:1]

According to your logic, it would be a sin to ask you to pray for me, or for a loved one.  That would make it a sin that I committed on this very board when I asked people to pray for my uncle who has cancer.  This is the same thing with Mary, we ask for her to pray for us, not intercess, that's Christs job.  It doesn't mean she knows everything, she doesn't have to, but I feel that someone in her position is going to be a little more aware about what's going on down here.  She's appeared as an aparition in the past, and it was quite apparent she heard someone's prayers, or she would hever have made her presence known.

It's fun being able to play both sides of the deniminational fence, it allows for a greater perspective of things and my direction is still towards unity instead of division.

[broach972]

According to your logic, it would be a sin to ask you to pray for me, or for a loved one.  That would make it a sin that I committed on this very board when I asked people to pray for my uncle who has cancer.  This is the same thing with Mary, we ask for her to pray for us, not intercess, that's Christs job.  It doesn't mean she knows everything, she doesn't have to, but I feel that someone in her position is going to be a little more aware about what's going on down here.  She's appeared as an aparition in the past, and it was quite apparent she heard someone's prayers, or she would hever have made her presence known.

It's fun being able to play both sides of the deniminational fence, it allows for a greater perspective of things and my direction is still towards unity instead of division.

Finally!!!!!!!!!  Someone who gets it!!

[broach972]

Mary cannot hear your prayer.

We know this because God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are Omnipresent, Omniscient, and Omnipotent. Mary is none of the above.

The Holy Spirit, not Mary, is THE Sovereign distributer of all things, this includes Grace, faith, wisdom, peace, understanding, etc..

Everything that the Catholic church tells you can be achieved through prayer to Mary (which is idolatry) is in fact the ministry of the Holy Spirit, not Mary.

Power of the Holy Ghost, The
http://www.bible-topics.com/Power-of-the-Holy-Ghost-The.html

Holy Ghost, the Comforter, The
http://www.bible-topics.com/Holy-Ghost-the-Comforter-The.html

Holy Ghost, The Personality of
http://www.bible-topics.com/Holy-Ghost-The-Personality-of.html

Holy Ghost, the Teacher, The
http://www.bible-topics.com/Holy-Ghost-the-Teacher-The.html

Holy Ghost, The, is God
http://www.bible-topics.com/Holy-Ghost-The-is-God.html

Ephesians 3:12 in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him.

When we pray in the Spirit (Jude 20), we are praying according to God's will because He gave us our desires (Psalm 37:4), and makes known to our hearts what to pray (Ephesians 6:18). 

The Holy Spirit makes intercession for us, not Mary.

Romans 8:26-27 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

The only acceptable prayers are through Christ (in His name).

John 14:13-14 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask[c] anything in My name, I will do it. (Also see John 15:16, John 16:23-24)

Jesus, in teaching us how to pray and giving us an example, and I stress the word "example", tells us to pray to the Father, not using vain repetitions. Notice, in His teaching and example, nowhere is Mary mentioned.

Matthew 6:5-13 5 "And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 6 But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly. 7 And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words. 8 "Therefore do not be like them. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him. 9 In this manner, therefore, pray:

      Our Father in heaven,
      Hallowed be Your name.
      10 Your kingdom come.
      Your will be done
      On earth as it is in heaven.
      11 Give us this day our daily bread.
      12 And forgive us our debts,
      As we forgive our debtors.
      13 And do not lead us into temptation,
      But deliver us from the evil one.
      For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen

In all of scripture that teaches, talks of, or gives examples of prayer, Mary is never mentioned as part of the process.

Prayer
http://www.bible-topics.com/Prayer.html

Prayer, Answers to
http://www.bible-topics.com/Prayer-Answers-to.html

Prayer, Intercessory
http://www.bible-topics.com/Prayer-Intercessory.html

Prayer, Private
http://www.bible-topics.com/Prayer-Private.html

Prayer, Public
http://www.bible-topics.com/Prayer-Public.html

Prayer, Social and Family
http://www.bible-topics.com/Prayer-Social-and-Family.html

In Christ

Dave

Dave,
You are just plain wrong.  The examples you cite above do not necessarily agree with your conclusions or interpretations.

The Bible directs us to invoke those in heaven and ask them to pray with us.

Thus, in Psalm 103 we pray, "Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! Bless the Lord, all his hosts, his ministers that do his will!" (Ps. 103:20–21). And in the opening verses of Psalms 148 we pray, "Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!"

Not only do those in heaven pray with us, they also pray for us. In the book of Revelation, John sees that "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:8). Thus the saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth.

Angels do the same thing: "[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3–4).

Jesus himself warned us not to offend small children, because their guardian angels have guaranteed intercessory access to the Father: "See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven" (Matt. 18:10).

Because he is the only God-man and the Mediator of the New Covenant, Jesus is the only mediator between man and God (1 Tim. 2:5), but this in no way means we cannot or should not ask our fellow Christians to pray with us and for us (1 Tim. 2:1–4). In particular, we should ask the intercession of those Christians in heaven, who have already had their sanctification completed, for "[t]he prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects" (Jas. 5:16).

[James Rondon]

According to your logic, it would be a sin to ask you to pray for me, or for a loved one.  That would make it a sin that I committed on this very board when I asked people to pray for my uncle who has cancer.  This is the same thing with Mary, we ask for her to pray for us, not intercess, that's Christs job.  It doesn't mean she knows everything, she doesn't have to, but I feel that someone in her position is going to be a little more aware about what's going on down here.  She's appeared as an aparition in the past, and it was quite apparent she heard someone's prayers, or she would hever have made her presence known.

Here's a link to a video you should check out, regarding supposed apparitions of Mary: click here

[John 1:1]

Thanks James, but it's a dramatization.

[JERRY C]

JR,
nice links in your signature.
the song about Humility is very soothing.
maybe I will get up to Kenosha some day and visit!

as for Mary, I think this is one of those things one did not ask for, but oh well.
and, IMHO, she is special, a sinner saved by Jesus, but special, nonetheless.

yes, grace and favor are related; but she was chosen.
And, her kin were pretty godly folks as well!  they had a live wire of a son!

[Tantor]

JR,
nice links in your signature.
the song about Humility is very soothing.
maybe I will get up to Kenosha some day and visit!

as for Mary, I think this is one of those things one did not ask for, but oh well.
and, IMHO, she is special, a sinner saved by Jesus, but special, nonetheless.

yes, grace and favor are related; but she was chosen.
And, her kin were pretty godly folks as well!  they had a live wire of a son!

She just happened to be the right person at the right generation for God to use.. nothing more and nothing less.

And she isn't a saint (only God knows who the true saints are), so she cant hear your prayers... and praying to her is breaking one of the 10 commandments because prayer is a form of worship.

[broach972]

She just happened to be the right person at the right generation for God to use.. nothing more and nothing less.

And she isn't a saint, so she cant hear your prayers... and praying to her is breaking one of the 10 commandments because prayer is a form of worship.

How you can say this with a straight face is beyond me?  To say that she isn't a saint?  I wonder if Jesus was the cold to his momma?  I doubt he would have told her the same thing.  Prayer is not necessarily a form of worship either.  You people can't see the forest through the trees.

[James Rondon]

Thanks James, but it's a dramatization.

According to whom?

[James Rondon]

She just happened to be the right person at the right generation for God to use.. nothing more and nothing less.

And she isn't a saint, so she cant hear your prayers... and praying to her is breaking one of the 10 commandments because prayer is a form of worship.

How you can say this with a straight face is beyond me?  To say that she isn't a saint?  I wonder if Jesus was the cold to his momma?  I doubt he would have told her the same thing.  Prayer is not necessarily a form of worship either.  You people can't see the forest through the trees.

Notice, you didn't say that prayer isn't a form of worship... You said, "prayer is not necessarily a form of worship".

As to the "you people" remark, who exactly are you referring to?

[Tantor]

She just happened to be the right person at the right generation for God to use.. nothing more and nothing less.

And she isn't a saint, so she cant hear your prayers... and praying to her is breaking one of the 10 commandments because prayer is a form of worship.

How you can say this with a straight face is beyond me?  To say that she isn't a saint?  I wonder if Jesus was the cold to his momma?  I doubt he would have told her the same thing.  Prayer is not necessarily a form of worship either.  You people can't see the forest through the trees.

I can say that with a straight face because there is only one reason the Christ was born to begin with.. and that was to die on the cross for our sins after a perfect life.

And when you look at the scriptures it goes through Mary's geneology to show she had to be the one because of prophesy.  Do I think Jesus holds a special place in his heart for his earthly Mother?.. not necessarily.  Jesus was born for a singular purpose.. anything else was incidental.

Mary is NOT the mother of God... and Jesus is the human incarnation of God... as such, Mary was nothing more then part OF HIS OWN CREATION that he used for his own purposes.

Jesus existed in heaven long before his physical birth on earth.

And I can say with pure certainty in my heart that from what we know biblically of the saints, Mary is most surely not one.

Doesn't it shame you that Jesus had to offer himself up for us in the first place?.. my have we fallen so far that the one who created us had to sacrifice part of himself for us.  And deep down in our hearts, all of us know that we don't deserve this ultimate show of love and sacrifice even a little bit.

And thats what the Gospel is really all about.. we all deserve death through the legacy of one man (Adam) and now the elect are recieving life through the sacrifice of one man (Jesus).  And as we sit in our homes and eat with our fellow christians we are to break bread and drink a cup together and remember the tremendous cost Jesus paid for the unworthy and the ultimate expression of love that it really is.

Christianity is a simple matter... no need for churches, priests, popes... they are hinderances to us.  But what we do need is the community of believers coming together and sharing and supporting one another as Jesus asked us to do... hence we have deacons, elders and bishops which help ground, mobilize and support this community.

Jesus showed us the way.. and Mary was never part of the way for us.. so why include her and complicate things.. unless you think integrating historically pagan traditions into the church is a permissible thing...

[James Rondon]

JR,
nice links in your signature.
the song about Humility is very soothing.
maybe I will get up to Kenosha some day and visit!

Thanks, Jerry. If you're ever in the area, let me know...

[Dave...]

According to your logic, it would be a sin to ask you to pray for me, or for a loved one.  That would make it a sin that I committed on this very board when I asked people to pray for my uncle who has cancer.  This is the same thing with Mary, we ask for her to pray for us, not intercess, that's Christs job.  It doesn't mean she knows everything, she doesn't have to, but I feel that someone in her position is going to be a little more aware about what's going on down here.  She's appeared as an aparition in the past, and it was quite apparent she heard someone's prayers, or she would hever have made her presence known.

It's fun being able to play both sides of the deniminational fence, it allows for a greater perspective of things and my direction is still towards unity instead of division.

Apparently, you missed my first post. What part didn't you understand? The part that Mary cannot hear you...should I go on?

Mary cannot hear you.

What "position" are you talking about in regards to Mary?

Would that apparition be the grilled cheese sandwich that is now hanging on a wall in a Vegas casino? 

[JERRY C]

just a thought, while I wolf down my biscuit at break,

maybe Mary just hollers across the room, "it's for you, Son..."?

back to the paper machine (outage today!)

[Tantor]

just a thought, while I wolf down my biscuit at break,

maybe Mary just hollers across the room, "it's for you, Son..."?

back to the paper machine (outage today!)

But she cant hear prayers to begin with.. so your try at humor utterly fails.

[charlie]

Mary told me to tell you folks to quit wasting so much time goofing off on your computers.

[JERRY C]

just a thought, while I wolf down my biscuit at break,

maybe Mary just hollers across the room, "it's for you, Son..."?

back to the paper machine (outage today!)

But she cant hear prayers to begin with.. so your try at humor utterly fails.

you know, Tman, I've never met you, but I know some folks like you.
some folks think in Excel and others think in "fuzzy logic"
and, of course, some just don't think at all!
(they regurgitate!)  (fixed these two sicko's!)

sorry, not really. man, you are way too serious.

ADDITONAL THOUGHTS:
I just got my lock off the dryer sections.
have been thinking about this some more.
you know, Jesus is Lord, preeminent, unique, holy.
and, Mary, is a creature of His; a sinner dependent on Him, just like all the rest of us.
and, Jesus, did teach us to pray "Our Father..."
that is the prescribed directive.
I often hear many pray to Jesus, and slip in a comment to the HS.
Even that is not quite the same as this post.

but, is Jesus bigger than our ignorance?
can you hear him saying, "Father, forgive them, they know not what they are doing"?

personally, I pray to the Father; not some saint, not Mary, not even Jesus.
well, to be honest, sometimes in more ecstatic moments we talk!

Tman, perhaps you are in a headbutting session with local RC's and feel more compelled to fine-tune all this.  I live around mostly Prots.

oh, yeah, and Charlie, tell Mary I am looking forward to meeting her! such a jewel among women, the Lord's "handmaid".

[James Rondon]

Mary told me to tell you folks to quit wasting so much time goofing off on your computers.

Mary who? And who is goofing off? By the way, did you post that message from your computer?

[JERRY C]

seems like a good time to throw this in!
anybody want to sing along?!

"Let it Be"
The Beatles

When I find myself in times of trouble
Mother Mary comes to me
Speaking words of wisdom, let it be.
And in my hour of darkness
She is standing right in front of me
Speaking words of wisdom, let it be.
Let it be, let it be.
Let it be, let it be.
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be.

And when the broken hearted people
Living in the world agree,
There will be an answer, let it be.
For though they may be parted there is
Still a chance that they will see
There will be an answer, let it be.

Let it be, let it be.
Let it be, let it be.
Yeah, There will be an answer, let it be.

Let it be, let it be.
Let it be, let it be.
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be.
(instrumental break)

Let it be, let it be.
Let it be, yeah let it be.
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be.

And when the night is cloudy,
There is still a light that shines on me.
Shine until tomorrow, let it be.
I wake up to the sound of music
Mother Mary comes to me
There will be no sorrow

Let it be, let it be.
Let it be, yeah let it be.
There will be and answer, let it be.

Let it be, let it be.
Let it be, yeah let it be.
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be.

[broach972]

just a thought, while I wolf down my biscuit at break,

maybe Mary just hollers across the room, "it's for you, Son..."?

back to the paper machine (outage today!)

But she cant hear prayers to begin with.. so your try at humor utterly fails.

you know, Tman, I've never met you, but I know some folks like you.
some folks think in Excel and others think in "fuzzy logic"
and, of course, some just don't think at all!
(they regurgitate!)

sorry, not really. man, you are way too serious.

ADDITONAL THOUGHTS:
I just got my lock off the dryer sections.
have been thinking about this some more.
you know, Jesus is Lord, preeminent, unique, holy.
and, Mary, is a creature of His; a sinner dependent on Him, just like all the rest of us.
and, Jesus, did teach us to pray "Our Father..."
that is the prescribed directive.
I often hear many pray to Jesus, and slip in a comment to the HS.
Even that is not quite the same as this post.

but, is Jesus bigger than our ignorance?
can you hear him saying, "Father, forgive them, they know not what they are doing"?

personally, I pray to the Father; not some saint, not Mary, not even Jesus.
well, to be honest, sometimes in more ecstatic moments we talk!

Tman, perhaps you are in a headbutting session with local RC's and feel more compelled to fine-tune all this.  I live around mostly Prots.

oh, yeah, and Charlie, tell Mary I am looking forward to meeting her! such a jewel among women, the Lord's "handmaid".

I think I am beginning to like this JerryC...very down to earth and insightful

[JERRY C]

BREAK TIME! (hey, my emoticon died; it was kind of sick anyway)
they are still blowing steam from the dryer sections, not good.
I have been shanghai'd to convert downtime charts for the mill manager.
better than greasing rope sheaves!

thanks Broachman!
(what's the deal with the name?! is this a machinist broach?)
do I get some manna?!

you know, I really do try to be practical, mystical, theological, spiritual, etc, etc.
but, "insightful and down to earth", thanks. (I will have to show this to my wife!)
but, I have a real gift for irritating people; it bothers me, sometimes.
I do try to think outside of the box.
and, maybe above all, I try to remember what I am, a fallen sinner saved by the blood of Jesus.  PTL

you know, I like Martin Luther; but, I am also trying to read Come Be My Light (Mother Teresa's correspondence collection)

maybe this is a good time for the "elevator joke"?

fellow dies and goes to heaven.
St. Peter takes him on a tour of heavenly mansion.
they get on elevator and stop at each floor for a quick look-see.
"this is the Baptist floor"  "hmmm"
"this is the Pentecostal floor, stand back"  "yowzer, look at 'em"
"this is the ....
then they skipped a floor; and the fellow asks, "what's the deal?"
"Oh, that's the COC floor, they think they are the only ones here; don't want to confuse them"

but enuf, let's focus on Jesus.

[Geezer]

I've been in this argument many times over the past 15 years and it's always the same. Every time I ask Catholics who Mary is - there is never a concise answer. They say that Mary can hear and mediate billions of prayers simultaneously. I think it is just common sense that each of us created beings whether living or dead is a single entity with limited abilities. Is Mary a created being like the Bible indicates - or a God?

What I hear Catholics saying is that Mary is not an individual like the rest of us, but rather a Semi-God and co-regent with Christ. That's the only way you can account for her apparent omniscience according to their belief system. If Mary is mediating all the prayers and petitions of the faithful - what are the other billions of Gods departed people doing in Heaven? I don't know of any place in the Bible that defines the role of the departed people of God in the affairs of the living.

Hebrews 12:1 (KJV) 
"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us...