Wise men from the East...who were they?

[Will Lee]

Anybody got any clues as to who the wise men were, or how they were able to correctly interpret the Mesianic prophesies while the Jews living in Isreal at the time could not?

Also, with Bethlehem being so close to Jerusalem, why would Herod ask the wise men to go and find the Christ child and come back and tell him where He was? Why would he have not just detained the wise men and sent his cavalry troops out to Bethlehem? They could have been there within an hour easily?

And remember, the Bible does not say that there were three wise men, the number of them was not given by Mathew. It just says wise men. There were three gifts brought, and so it has been assumed since then that there was one wise man per gift. I find that there might have been more going onhere than we modern folks get with this. I mean, niether Herod nor the Romans messed with these guys, and they came a long way with valuables and were not apparently attacked by brigands. They apparently didnt have anytrouble getting an audience from Herod, and he seems to have given them some respect. So, who were they? Could they have been representatives from some very powerful kings in the Orient, such as the Hahn dynasty of China?

[lismore]

The bible says who they were, they were Magi:

Matthew 2:7
Then Herod called the Magi secretly and found out from them the exact time the star had appeared.

Back in the olden days Daniel was one of the Magi.  Head Magi in fact.

[Jaime]

The bible says who they were, they were Magi:

Matthew 2:7
Then Herod called the Magi secretly and found out from them the exact time the star had appeared.

Back in the olden days Daniel was one of the Magi.  Head Magi in fact.

Wouldn't that be Head Magus?

[Will Lee]

What was called a Magi in the Bethlehem story is probably different than the mideival magi who are linked with zoreastorins and sorcerers, I am pretty sure. That being the case, what was a magi in the Biblical times? Were they always considered in the Judeo-Christian faith, or was it a class that could include false prophets, such as the advisors that Pharoah or Nebuchadrezzar might have had in thier courts s dream readers and star charters? Would this have been magi too?

Or...Did Daniel form a society of God believing prophets and learned men to practise God worship apart from any pagan influences? And if so, could the Magi of the Mathew account have been descendents of the sect that might have been started by Daniel? Were there Godly sects that were living outside of Isreal at the time?
    As you can see, I have more confusion than knowledge over this, and I can really use some help in understanding this. Can I get more info on this?

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

What was called a Magi in the Bethlehem story is probably different than the mideival magi who are linked with zoreastorins and sorcerers, I am pretty sure. That being the case, what was a magi in the Biblical times? Were they always considered in the Judeo-Christian faith, or was it a class that could include false prophets, such as the advisors that Pharoah or Nebuchadrezzar might have had in thier courts s dream readers and star charters? Would this have been magi too?

Or...Did Daniel form a society of God believing prophets and learned men to practise God worship apart from any pagan influences? And if so, could the Magi of the Mathew account have been descendents of the sect that might have been started by Daniel? Were there Godly sects that were living outside of Isreal at the time?

As you can see, I have more confusion than knowledge over this, and I can really use some help in understanding this. Can I get more info on this?

You don't have to go medievel to see that sort of definition.  Ireneus (290AD) names Simon of Samaria (the one from Acts...who tried to buy the gift of the Spirit) as Simon Magus, and indicts the magi as the precursors of all various flavors of gnosticism.

Speaking generally in the sense Ireneus would, a magus is someone whose main focus is on obtaining personal power by gaining hidden knowledge, then using that knowledge to perform acts which would awe the common people, or make a living by selling hidden knowledge.  Most often they were adherents of the mystery cults.

More specifically, Magi are associated with the Phrygians, and the Persian empire.  I believe that the Persian monarch's...uh, cabinet...were known as Magi in earlier years.

The Magi in Matthew knew nothing of Jewish Messianic prophecy.  (Remember, they asked first @ Herod's palace & the Jewish leaders filled them in at that point).  They learned about it by studying the stars.  There was a convergence of Jupiter and Venus in Virgo the year of the birth, or possibly the year before the birth.

Jarrod

[jessbuds]

Or...Did Daniel form a society of God believing prophets and learned men to practise God worship apart from any pagan influences? And if so, could the Magi of the Mathew account have been descendents of the sect that might have been started by Daniel? Were there Godly sects that were living outside of Isreal at the time?

you are right. During Daniel's life in babylon, a lot of people were believers even the king and i believe that during Daniel's time there was a group of wise men headed by Daniel who remain faithful to Daniel's teaching and pass it generation to generation until the time of Christ Star appearing.

these wise men i believer were of noble rank from Persia maybe equivalent to our senate of today or of similar value because herod entertained them.

[zoonance]

They weren't from Washington.

[jessbuds]

They weren't from Washington.

[marc]

...and at this point we can rule out Wall Street bankers as well.

[Will Lee]

Jessbuds...I think that you may be on to something with the Daniel, Babylonian connection, but I wasnt sure. I wanted to field the question and see if anyone else had heard of this.

[His_will_i_am]

From my understanding, the magis in question were descendants of Daniel's teachings. they had followed Daniels teachings very precisely and were expecting the arrival of Messiah and knew from Daniel what to watch out for. It was a modern day Pharisee, yes the sect still exists, who was teaching on the Magis from Daniel. It was very particular to me because the pharisees still don't accept Messiah, yet this man was actually backing up so much of the Scriptural record according to the Pharisee party's own history and understanding. I don't remember the name of the man, but know that he was connected with a man named Micheal Rood of a Rude (Rood) awakenings Ministry.

[Will Lee]

Fascinating Stuff Here! 

[Hotrod]

In this descriptor they were wise men. They were called "Magi" just like Persia Priests. They used astrology to find Jesus; the Persian Magis were known as Astrologists. They were from the East, and Persian is east of birth location. The question becomes, why them to more or less legitamize the birth of Jesus? Is there a relationship between the two cultures?

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Not them, the stars.

The heavens declare the glory of God...

[phoebe]

Frederick Larson addresses this in his teachings on the star of Bethlehem via his currently unavailable DVD "The Star of Bethlehem", of which the text is available at the web site: http://bethlehemstar.net/

Get your hands on a copy. Truly fascinating stuff! The heavens really do declare the glory of God, but in ways I could never have imagined!

[koscheiman]

The Magi in Christ time were nothing more than wise men (by men's standards) which is how the KJV translates. They were from the Orient, where we do not know. They were more than likely wealthy, dabbling in magic and astrology. As well as studying religions of the world.

[larry2]

Will Lee - Did Daniel form a society of God believing prophets and learned men to practise God worship apart from any pagan influences?

larry2 - Jeremiah was also a prophet contemporary with Daniel, though older, but he was not taken captive to Babylon and remained in the land of Judah (Jeremiah Chapters 42 and 43). Many of the things known in Jerusalem was probably made known through him.

In Luke 2:8-20 the glory of the Lord shone unto to shepherds in a field (v9) and in (v15) they went to see this thing which the Lord made known unto them. It seems God did not always use prophets.

The wise men came from the east more than likely were from Persia since a note I have from Scofield states: ["Wise men" is from the Greek word "majoi", a Persian word for men expert in the study of the stars.] There were probably many Jews left over from their dispersion into those lands.

As happened with the shepherds, did those wise men receive things made known unto them? They must have for they knew He was King of the Jews, or they may have known from that  prophesied. Now Herod's scribes and priests knew from prophesy that Jesus was to be born in Bethlehem (v5).

When the wise men mistakenly went to Jerusalem instead of Bethlehem (Maybe they did not continue looking to the star) they inquired of those at Jerusalem in Matthew 2:2 where Jesus was. This all occurred sometime after Jesus was born because when they found Jesus, He was already in a house (v11).

In Jesus' name - larry2

[Jaime]

They knew enough about Jewish prophecies to know  when the signs in the heavens would point to the Jewish Messiah.

[Jaime]

Frederick Larson addresses this in his teachings on the star of Bethlehem via his currently unavailable DVD "The Star of Bethlehem", of which the text is available at the web site: http://bethlehemstar.net/

Get your hands on a copy. Truly fascinating stuff! The heavens really do declare the glory of God, but in ways I could never have imagined!

I agree Phoebe, I saw this a few weeks ago on the discovery channel and it was mind boggling.

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

I have a photo that I believe may clear things up:

[walker starr]

     I believe I can say without any doubt what soever that these men came from India and tibet.
                                                                                                                                   GOD Bless.

[JohnDB]

The Daniel theory isn't a bad theory at all.

"follow the money" so to speak. The banking laws that Daniel established in Babylonian times are still in use to this day...rather loosely in America with the battles with the fed and the Government...but still valid.

In those days and times a kingdom was limited by its cash flow. Daniel created a banking system that propelled the Babylonian kingdom way beyond their wildest imaginations of creating. The rivers provided a means to transport grain and gold...man made canals often were a means to travel as well...much cheaper and efficient than mule or camel.

So...to believe that a group of "money men" to follow the teachings and prophesies of Daniel who was considered to be the smartest guy in the neighborhood....wealthy enough to do whatever, and also had not only the King of Babylon's ear but also Persia.....

People pay attention to whatever this guy eats for breakfast....try to figure out what he is going to have for lunch and have bets on dinner. The religion and his writings....hey...they were going to have that figured out long long before this point.

What? you want a modern day comparison?...how about Allen Greenspan....or Warren Buffet...or even Stuart Varney.