Do doctors listen?

[Jon-Marc]

I don't know how many times I've mentioned to my doctor about the severe pain I have in EVERY joint from my neck to my feet. April 8 I saw my doctor and mentioned how much I hurt --again. He very intelligently asked, "Why do you hurt?" I said, ""Because of the pain." I'm not the doctor; HE'S the one who's supposed to find out why I hurt so much and try to do something about it.

Don't doctors write down anything you say to them? Do they make ANY notes or just try to remember what you say? I get so tired of repeating myself, and it's not just this doctor; I've had the same experience with ALL doctors. Some of them are just plain quacks.

A "doctor" I had up north treated my brother-in-law for 2 years for an ulcer he didn't have. My dad went to him for a growth on his head, and the quack told him it was nothing to worry about and to go home and put cold compresses on it. It kept getting bigger until he went to another doctor who diagnosed a tumor that had eaten through the bone on top of his head and nearly reached his brain. My dad ended up with a big hole in the top of his head. Hie brain (such as it was) was protected in that area only by skin. I wonder why they didn't put a metal plate there to protect his brain.

If it wasn't for the times that I actually NEED a doctor, I wouldn't bother having one. All doctors are doing for me is putting me into the poor house with so many medical bills that I can't afford to pay them.

I told my doctor about my breathing problems and how my nose plugs up in bed. He asked me if I had used any nasal sprays, and I told him I got an infection from using the off-the-shelf- ones. He gave me a prescription for one that he says won't do that; I'll soon find out. I'm supposed to use it just before going to bed. Doctors can be so frustrating.

Oh, almost forgot. A VA "doctor" caused me to have a bleeding stomach ulcer where I lost about 2 quarts of blood. He gave me meds for back pain--including aspirin. I told him I can't take aspirin, because it causes me severe stomach pain. He said that they were coated and wouldn't upset my stomach. I made the mistake of believing him. After all, he was a doctor and should know, shouldn't he? The emergency doctor at the hospital told me that I had made it there just in time.

Anyone else with horror stories about doctors?

[lightshineon]

 No sometimes they do not. My mother has been sick for years after a staff infection, her stomach is sick every day, she is an invalid and has searched everywhere. My middle daughter had mysterious pain for two years, she cried every night, I took her from doctor to doctor, They took out her gall bladder, she is just a kid. her did several more operations, nothing helped.  It was strange many young girls in my area, had the same symptoms. Sara, one day was just healed. That about your dad is just disturbing, to say the least. I will pray for your feet, and an answear.

[Jon-Marc]

I will pray for your feet, and an answear.

It's not just my feet that hurt. I hurt from my neck down to my feet--everything. The areas that prevent me from getting comfortable in bed are my legs, shoulders, and right hip. The pain often gets me out of bed before I want to get up.

Diabetes keeps me feeling tired all the time with no energy. Doctors are no help at all. I owe an unbelievable amount on multiple medical bills that I'm having difficulty paying, and that is after my insurance pays what they will. Some of them have been turned into collection because they weren't happy with my small monthly payment. I get phone calls from collection agencies from morning until 9PM every day so that I have stopped answering my phone. Between the stress of the bills, the pain, the collection agencies, and not getting any relief for any of it, I just keep praying for the Lord to end it and put me out of my misery. He says not to seek riches--so winning the lottery is out of the question.

[lightshineon]

 Will pray, and never give up Jon Marc, God sees all these things, and loves you very much. Besides a cool looking dude like yourself, you know has to be a very courageous  tough kind of guy.

[Jon-Marc]

Will pray, and never give up Jon Marc, God sees all these things, and loves you very much. Besides a cool looking dude like yourself, you know has to be a very courageous  tough kind of guy.

Actually, I'm still affected by the abuse I grew up with and have never been very courageous. I'm also not very tough.

[lightshineon]

Will pray, and never give up Jon Marc, God sees all these things, and loves you very much. Besides a cool looking dude like yourself, you know has to be a very courageous  tough kind of guy.

Actually, I'm still affected by the abuse I grew up with and have never been very courageous. I'm also not very tough.

Well toughness and courage comes in many forms Jon Marc. I had a very traumatic childhood, bizarre actually. Everyone always thought I had it all together, but it was not, I was just barely hanging on. I had such a wounded spirit, but, was and am such a private person no one knew. Jesus set me free, it is like the haunted, defeated person, seems like she never existed. Jesus says in scripture, he came to give sight to the blind, set the captive free, to bind up the brokenhearted. Jon Marc, i believe by faith you are healed from the oppression of the past. It may not happen all at once, but in stages, or it may happen all at once I do not know. I am not a WOF, name it claim it person, but I truly believe God has good things for you. Pray about what I have said, and ask the Lord to heal your soul, and if what I am saying bears witness by the Holy Spirit as truth. You are in my earnest prayers, God bless.

[Jon-Marc]

Well, at 64 and with my health quickly deteriorating, I doubt that much of anything is going to happen other than my being called home--the sooner the better.

[lightshineon]

Well, at 64 and with my health quickly deteriorating, I doubt that much of anything is going to happen other than my being called home--the sooner the better.

Jon, you sound seriously depressed, tell your doctor, if he does not listen tell another. So God does not expect you to expect great things because you are 64? I will expect great things for you, and pray they happen, until God through whatever method lifts this darkness from you.

[lightshineon]

 Jon once I was watching the animal planet, when one of those disturbing shows came on where it shows an animal eating another one. The disturbing scene I saw saw before I turned the channel, was a lion eating a young water buffalo. The narrator chimed in while showing the terrified water Buffalo being eaten alive. The narrator said someting I will never forget he said " by the look in the unfortunate water Buffalo's eyes death can not come soon enough.
Well Jon Marc, that sort of disturbed me, but spoke to my Spirit at the same time. We, you and I and other true believers are not just put on this earth to be miserable waiting just for the second coming or to die, because we are being eaten by the lion. You are here for a purpose to further the kingdom as a victor, not an unfortunate victim of the roaring lion seeking whom he may devour.

[Renae610]

Have you been diagnosed with Fibromyalgia or CMP (Chronic myofacial pain)?   These are pain syndromes. 
A rheumatologist or an alternative healthcare doctor can diagnose Fibro.  These conditions can be overcome.

If you have Type !! Diabetes, it can be reversed.   

Many diseases can be cured but the American medical system focuses on disease management instead!   

Keep faith for healing, brother!!!

If the medical things you've done didn't help, then complain about it.  I nearly lost my life due to their mistakes and they dropped that bill.  They should drop your bills if they have not cured you!!!   

The medical system was abusive and ignorant with my daughter, so I started researching and learning how to get my daughter moving toward recovery.   I have learned alot in 10 years of her illness.  Persistence and following God helps!! 

We're currently working with a world-known expert with offices in the U.S. and Germany.  They are more advanced in Germany!    One of his patients was in a wheelchair for 8 years and she is walking now!!

Another Europe-trained alternative doctor in the U.S. is also getting people well. 

Miracles are still happening! 

[Jon-Marc]

I have type 2 diabetes. I have no idea what type !! is; I take that as a typo. Renae, I have no idea what Fibromyalgia is. So far I'm on three medications--including pills for diabetes. I don't know if I'm depressed or just discouraged because of being sick, tired, and in pain all the time

Personally, I don't think doctors or hospitals should charge you if what they do doesn't accomplish anything. I've had so many tests done in an effort to find the cause of a problem--with no results, but they didn't fail to charge me.

Only strong pain pills MIGHT help, but pills strong enough to take care of the pain will tear up my stomach. Besides, treating the pain does nothing for what is causing the pain.

[Renae610]

I apologize for the typo!   Yes, I meant type 2 Diabetes.   Dr. Julian Whitaker has a Reversing Diabetes book and Cookbook. That might be a good start for you.

Fibromyalgia and Chronic myofacial pain are all-over muscle & skin pain.  My daughter has this due to chronic infections that the medical system could not find.  Alternative healthcare clinics tested and diagnosed her.  Some people get Fibro due to traumas that have happened in their life too.

Most of my daughter's medical tests came back as "normal" but she is terribly ill, disabled.   If your medical tests are normal, you've got to go to alternative clinics to get your answers:

(1)  Start with a chiropractor to make sure you're aligned right. 

(2)  Some clinics do EDS or BioMeridian Biofeedback testing-- that will identify what natural supplements will get your system back into balance. 

(3)  If you are middle-aged, you might do a ZRT lab saliva/blood test to check hormone levels, adrenals, and thyroid functioning. This lab picks up on things that medical tests miss.  There are supplements to correct these. You could have depression and fatigue from these being out of balance.

My favorite alternative doctor in the U.S. and trained in Europe is Dr. David Jernigan in Wichita KS.  He does advanced Energy testing, chiropractic, detoxification, and so much more! 

[Jon-Marc]

I'm what I call "late middle aged"--64. I've thought about going to a chiropractor but don't know if my insurance would pay for it. I certainly can't afford to pay the whole cost. I'm head over heels in debt with medical bills now--some of which have been turned into collection because I can't pay them fast enough.

[Renae610]

You're not the only one in this kind of boat, if that is any comfort to you!  I have heard that the #1 reason people file for bankruptcy is due to medical bills. Some people get professional debt help to get a reasonable payment plan so your credit is protected. 

Someone told me that if you were to send even $5 or $10 per month per bill, that is a sign of good will, showing willness to take care of the debt, and keeps you out of collections until you can get professional debt help.   

Perhaps you have already cut down your living expenses as much as you can?.... and you have retirement income, medicare, etc??  Since YOU are more important than finances, hopefully you can budget some amount to help you get healthier and it doesn't necessarily have to involve big expense. There is alot of "education" right on the internet.  I thank God for this, because it has helped me to help my daughter! 

So I pray God will show you what strategy to overcome this whole situation so it doesn't weigh you down  and negatively affect your health further!  With some of these illnesses, the body's stress response is affected, so it is very important to do whatever you can to keep stress to a minimum. Exercise can help both stress and diabetes and get your lymph system moving to detoxify you, if you are able to take walks.

Hope this gets you started with hope for positive change!   

[RalphMalph]

Do Doctors listen?

Patient: I'm here to get a refill.
Doctor: Anything else?
Patient: No.
Doctor (frowning): You seem upset.
Patient: ()
Doctor: We're going to take you in for more testing, K?

Strong's #5331
Pharmacy = Pharmakeia /Sorcery/Bewitchers
http://www.searchgodsword.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=5331

[zoonance]

Did you say something?

[Renae610]

That's very interesting, Ralph.  I found too that in the Scripture, pharma and sorcery are the same. So we were never meant to be on medication for a lifetime as the Medical system promotes.  The medical system has created a bunch of disease names and told us we can't overcome them but just manage with meds. That makes us dependent on the medical system for their profits at our expense. The Enemy is trying to use the systems of this world, yes even medical to keep us in bondage and ultimately destroy us, yet all the while appearing as a respected institution in society.

Healthcare is supposed to be about natural healing, assisting the person to overcome illness. God made our bodies to heal and fight off disease.   So we've got to take charge of our own health and find natural ways to heal. 

Much of this type 2 diabetes has come from the diet promoted by our culture so we've got to get back to healthy eating as God intended.  The processed foods today are loaded with sugars and dangerous additives like MSG, aspartame, etc and they are training our bodies to crave their food, again for their profit and to put us in bondage to disease.  I'm not accepting that.  Instead, I go to a natural care clinic, where they test to find deficiencies and the computerized program matches the supplement that is compatible with my body-- and I get better. 

I heard a couple nights ago, that the government is trying to shut down Bob Barefoot's promotion of Coral Calcium. He says taking that supplement and larger doses of Vitamin D can cure Diabetes. You see, if you claim that any supplement cures, you are wrong, but drug companies are putting ads on TV continually saying they are helping people and that's o.k.?  Well, God's word told us to beware of pharma.

Our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit and we should not put junk into them or on them...there again, many of the personal care products have sodium lauryl sulfate, anti-freeze, and other garbage in them that are absorbed through  the pores of our skin.  Replace these products with what's healthier for you.

I hope this helps you, brother!  I truly believe when we act based on what is truth, God will set us free.
Please pray for my daughter too, please, as we are taking steps and need her freed of illness... thanks!
I pray for you too!  Trust God to get you through this! We can overcome all things through Christ who strengthens us!

[Jon-Marc]

Someone told me that if you were to send even $5 or $10 per month per bill, that is a sign of good will, showing willness to take care of the debt, and keeps you out of collections until you can get professional debt help.   

I send $10 per month on each medical bill I owe. Some accept it with no problem, and some of those I eventually paid off. I just sent the last payment on one of them. However, the ones to which I owe Thousands aren't happy with that small payment--knowing that at that rate they will never see all their money. Those stopped sending me a statement, and several months later I got a statement from a collection agency. I get daily phone calls from morning till 9 PM that I don't answer. I quit answering my phone because of them. The collection agencies that send me a statement receive a $10 check and a letter from me explaining my financial condition. Of course, that does nothing since they don't care. They want me to call them and set up a payment plan that suits them, but I know what I can afford better than they do. They don't send any more statements but keep calling and calling to no avail, but they are persistent.

[marie69]

Jon-Marc,

I work in the healthcare field. I think most doctors do try and listen, but these days they are so overwhelmed with patients that it is impossible to receive the kind of care that we are paying for. I do believe there are really good doctors out there, but sometimes they are seeing so many patients a day that they are tired, worn out, and mentally drained. Keep in mind, they are human. If they see 30-40 patients a day, I'm sure they keep up with the reason for that particular visit. But in a couple of weeks time when they have then seen 400+ patients, it is difficult to remember what your last visits have been for. And it would be very time consuming for any doctor to read every patient's chart before they entered the exam room.

I do understand that when it is your time to be the patient, you want your issues resolved. So do I. My family doctor is also a friend of mine outside of work. When I see her in clinic as a patient, I have to remind her every time of past issues. I understand, because she sees 700-900 patients a month. I don't expect her to keep up with every ailment I have.

Doctor's do make mistakes. We don't want their mistake to be with us but it does happen. We hold doctors to a high standard and when a mistake is made, its devastating. Kind of like when a cop breaks the law or a priest or church leader commits a perverse act with a child.

I will pray that you find comfort for your ailments and am very sorry that you are going through all of this. I agree with lightshineon, you sound seriously depressed. All of your comments on your posts sound painful not only physically but mentally and spiritually as well. I pray that our Lord will guide you to the help you need.

[Renae610]

Good points, Marie.  My cousin  is a general M.D. and it is alot of stress. His office has a rule of 10 minutes per patient! That is not a long enough time to fully evaluate anyone and read charts. He doesn't like it, but can't change the rules of his office.   

Jon, you need more than " you against your creditors".  You will need to get some kind of program and advocate working for you.  I don't know what the best program is, but this site discusses somethings:  http://www.bills.com/debt_relief/

[Renae610]

Jon Marc, 

I'd like to hear an update on your situation.  I hope & pray that you have found the right resources and that things are getting better!

~Renae

[Jon-Marc]

Nothing has changed--at least not for the better. I just long for the Lord to put me out of my misery.

[Renae610]

Sorry to hear that.      Well, that means I've got more praying to do, that you will be empowered to find what works and plow forward!   

Did you find Dr. Whitaker's book on reversing Diabetes? 

If you go to a chiropractor's office that does EDS (electrodermal screening), this can find the exact supplements you need to correct deficiencies that could be making you feel fatigued, depressed, etc.  It can really make a difference!

Can some company near you consolidate the debts to make one manageable payment?

It will be great to be on the other side of this dilemma as an Overcomer!  I notice the word "hero" under your name!
Yes, you can win!!   

[Jon-Marc]

I have no money for books. I have all I can do to pay my many bills (mostly medical). I tried a debt consolidation company. The amount of money they wanted to consolidate my bills didn't include utility bills or food, and I would have been left with only about $200 or less per month for pay all those--including gas and other expenses on my car. I'll just keep plodding along. I am gradually paying them off one by one.

Sorry to hear that.      Well, that means I've got more praying to do, that you will be empowered to find what works and plow forward!   

Did you find Dr. Whitaker's book on reversing Diabetes? 

If you go to a chiropractor's office that does EDS (electrodermal screening), this can find the exact supplements you need to correct deficiencies that could be making you feel fatigued, depressed, etc.  It can really make a difference!

Can some company near you consolidate the debts to make one manageable payment?

It will be great to be on the other side of this dilemma as an Overcomer!  I notice the word "hero" under your name!
Yes, you can win!!   

[lightshineon]

Did you say something?

Dr. Nance, I am sure the giraffe's, are always speaking, but you never listen


Jon Marc, I know physical pain can come with depression, and no folks it is not wrong to take medication for that. I am not trying to be fussy, but, many well meaning christian have condemned others for medication dealing with such things, they quit taking medication, and committed suicide. We must be very careful, in telling others that medication is evil.

[Jon-Marc]

There are those who believe (and they're entitled to their beliefs as long as they don't try to force them on others) who believe we should just trust God and not go to doctors or take medications. However, However, if not for doctors I would probably be dead now (not exactly a bad thing) from a collapsed artery in which doctors put a stent (or is that stint? The pain I had was excruciating), or I would be dead from arteries blocked from too much blood fat from improper eating, or I would be dead from a heart attack or a stroke or bed-ridden from a stroke (which in my opinion is a fate worse than death), or I would be dead from the diabetes. I once knew a pastor who died at age 38 from diabetes. Diabetes can also cause you to lose limbs. I've seen people with their legs amputated because of diabetes.

[Dani]

Hey Jon-Marc,

I hope you are not as despondent as you sound in your posts? I have a very rare incurable illness, which suddenly took over a couple of years ago (I'm 21 and in a *lot* of debt like you). There's been some nasty pain, I thought i couldn't live with it even, but when i was having an IV treatment once there was a guy there...not sure what he had but his limbs weren't properly developed and he was in a wheelchair. He said his daughter had brittle bones and it was so bad that putting the covers over her at night could fracture her bones. Her treatment was very successful (bisphosphonates?) he said, but it made me wonder at my despair.

24/7 pain eats away at you, it's lonely and i honestly think it makes us crazy and lose sight of who we are, and i appreciate the hopelessness of your posts, i know the feeling, but when i think of that little girl...I can't bear to be sad and give up. I think I might get a lot better soon too

I hope you can still find love, strength, joy and perspective in your life Jon-Marc. I believe it is always, always there.

WRT the thread...my family doctor tells me I am the only expert in my condition at the practice and both he and the specialist have not told me the side effects and damage of drugs they put me on, but stories like that little girl, who was also under my specialist, really show how great doctors and medicine can be. 

[Silvia]

Actually, I wouldn't write off western style docs as quacks. And they do listen.

I was diagnosed with asthma as an adult after decades of having "bad colds". This from my new family doc who wouldn't let me ignore my "colds" any longer. I now use inhalers (well - when I remember!), and I'm feeling much better. My lungs are no longer being damaged by the constant cough that I had lived with.

I was also diagnosed with Essential Tremor by another doc - I'd always thought that I just had shaky arms. A normal quirk, you know! *She* was the one who noticed the problem, who started me on the road to treatment. I recently had a "pacemaker" and wires installed in my head/chest - Deep Brain Stimulation. My arms are now steady for the first time in decades, and I don't have to look forward to a lifetime of increased physical challenges from ET (it's progressive).

A few years ago I had a suspicious mammogram - had to go back for additional tests (which turned out to be benign). My family doc read the test results carefully and debated about sending me for more followup - I really felt like she was doing a good job of looking out for me.

My family doc has time for me during the "big" checkups - perhaps more time than I'd like because she picks up on problems that I would normally overlook! I can't get away with anything with her!  If your doc doesn't have time for you or doesn't seem to listen, maybe you need to find another healthcare provider. Sometimes Physicians Assistants or ARNPs have time for longer appointments and are better at communication.

[zoonance]

severe physical pain can lead to spiritual pain.  It isn't easy to stay "up" when you don't feel good enough to even be up.  Sorry to read of your struggle Jon-Marc.  You aren't alone though it may feel like it!

[Jon-Marc]

It's somehow easier for some to smile and keep on truckin' than it is for others. Living by faith is not easy for me. My entire life has been one of misery, with an occasional good time. Being born again on May 18, 1963 was the best thing that ever happened, and nothing can match it.

I know I sound discouraged and I am. I know there are lots of people in much worse shape than I'm in, but that doesn't help me to feel any better. Yes, I'm down, and only being called home will change that.

[DocLogic77]

I will pray for your feet, and an answear.

It's not just my feet that hurt. I hurt from my neck down to my feet--everything. The areas that prevent me from getting comfortable in bed are my legs, shoulders, and right hip. The pain often gets me out of bed before I want to get up.

Diabetes keeps me feeling tired all the time with no energy. Doctors are no help at all. I owe an unbelievable amount on multiple medical bills that I'm having difficulty paying, and that is after my insurance pays what they will. Some of them have been turned into collection because they weren't happy with my small monthly payment. I get phone calls from collection agencies from morning until 9PM every day so that I have stopped answering my phone. Between the stress of the bills, the pain, the collection agencies, and not getting any relief for any of it, I just keep praying for the Lord to end it and put me out of my misery. He says not to seek riches--so winning the lottery is out of the question.

There are many reasons people can have generalized myalgias and polyarthragias.  If the pain is in the muscles that leads you down one path of diagnosis.  If it's every joint that leads you down another.  Blood work can help sort it out and it can anything from depression to rheumatoid disorders.  A specialist might help...I would start with a rheumatologist.

Also, most physicians won't write down anything while in the room with you.  Why?  Because they want to focus on you and not a chart.  After they leave they document what you have said and the exam.  This is done out of your view.  Many physicians including myself will ask the same questions in different ways...or even the same ways on multiple visits.  Why?  Because, sometimes people give additional information they didn't think of before which can help us diagnose.

I would suggest if you are not happy with your physician seek out a new one.  Not all physicians are "quacks"...and I would say the great majority are more than qualified to take care of your needs even if you don't understand their methods.

[DocLogic77]

Will pray, and never give up Jon Marc, God sees all these things, and loves you very much. Besides a cool looking dude like yourself, you know has to be a very courageous  tough kind of guy.

Actually, I'm still affected by the abuse I grew up with and have never been very courageous. I'm also not very tough.

Unresolved abuse issues from childhood can result in a post traumatic stress situation.  This causes depression and anxiety.  It can make you irritable and hurt all over.  I would get a full head to toe medical check and see a rheumatologist.  If everything comes back negative I would seek out a psychologist who deals with post traumatic stress disorder.

[DocLogic77]

Jon-Marc,

I work in the healthcare field. I think most doctors do try and listen, but these days they are so overwhelmed with patients that it is impossible to receive the kind of care that we are paying for. I do believe there are really good doctors out there, but sometimes they are seeing so many patients a day that they are tired, worn out, and mentally drained. Keep in mind, they are human. If they see 30-40 patients a day, I'm sure they keep up with the reason for that particular visit. But in a couple of weeks time when they have then seen 400+ patients, it is difficult to remember what your last visits have been for. And it would be very time consuming for any doctor to read every patient's chart before they entered the exam room.

I do understand that when it is your time to be the patient, you want your issues resolved. So do I. My family doctor is also a friend of mine outside of work. When I see her in clinic as a patient, I have to remind her every time of past issues. I understand, because she sees 700-900 patients a month. I don't expect her to keep up with every ailment I have.

Doctor's do make mistakes. We don't want their mistake to be with us but it does happen. We hold doctors to a high standard and when a mistake is made, its devastating. Kind of like when a cop breaks the law or a priest or church leader commits a perverse act with a child.

I will pray that you find comfort for your ailments and am very sorry that you are going through all of this. I agree with lightshineon, you sound seriously depressed. All of your comments on your posts sound painful not only physically but mentally and spiritually as well. I pray that our Lord will guide you to the help you need.

Thank you for your post Marie.  I understand the frustration of patients.  I really do.  We are frustrated as well.  I got out of family practice for a reason.  There is no way I can't treat patients the way I believe they need to be treated seeing 30-40 a day.  Not to mention it is extremely draining physically and emotionally.  We are supposed to have all the answers for 150-200 patients a week and that is just not possible.  Our health care system is broken and I agree that there are many problems.