Worship

[piecrust]

Most of us think of worship as what we do in church...say some prayers, sing some hymns, listen to the sermon....

But have a read of this, sent to me by a friend today:

And this is how we worship God. It is interesting how little the New Testament uses the word 'worship' to mean 'what we do in a church service'. As in parts of the Old Testament, Paul here says that worship of God is best understood as a whole-of-life activity. We worship God – literally 'give God total worth' – when we obey God in acts of love. This worship is pleasing to God, and holy. A Christian is never not at worship – we are always relating to God, and always called upon to serve God with our bodies.And this is how we worship God. It is interesting how little the New Testament uses the word 'worship' to mean 'what we do in a church service'. As in parts of the Old Testament, Paul here says that worship of God is best understood as a whole-of-life activity. We worship God – literally 'give God total worth' – when we obey God in acts of love. This worship is pleasing to God, and holy. A Christian is never not at worship – we are always relating to God, and always called upon to serve God with our bodies.

We had been studying Romans 12:1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God – this is your true and proper worship.

Worship with your life.

[RB]

Most of us think of worship as what we do in church...

Greetings piecrust~Well, none of the very elect believes that only the twenty-first century deluded souls believe so, and that mainly from a delusion which is helped forward by the priest-craft and preacher-graft of the day~the Nicolaitans system which God hates. Over against this delusion are the words of Christ in John 4:24, which are startling in their plainness and pungency:

"God is a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth."

Most do people imagine that if they attend a religious service, are reverent in their demeanor, join in the singing of the hymns, listen respectfully to the preacher, and contribute to the collection, they have really worshipped God. Poor deluded souls. Our Lord was never part of such a group and taught such. Many believes unregenerate souls are capable of worshipping God, how unscriptural is that!

Mark 7:5-9~"Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands? He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

But "false worship" proceeds on the assumption that depraved and guilty men may have dealings with God, may approach unto Him, yea, worship and serve Him. The world over, false worship is based on the fallacy that fallen and sinful man can have dealings with God. Religion is the principal means used by Satan to blind men to their true and terrible condition. It is the devil's anesthetic for making lost sinners feel comfortable and easy in their guilty distance from God. It hides God from them in His real character~as a holy God who is of "purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity" (Habakkuk 1:13).

A flood of light is thrown upon this side of our subject if we weigh attentively the awful incident recorded in

Matthew 4:,8,9~ "Again, the devil taketh Him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth Him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto Him, All these things will I give Thee, if Thou wilt fall down and worship me."

The devil seeks worship. How few in Christendom are aware of this, or realize that the principal activities of the enemy are carried on in the religious sphere under that sacred banner of true worship! !

Listen to Moses:

Deuteronomy 32:17~ "They sacrificed unto demons, not to God; to gods whom they knew not."

That refers to Israel in the early days of their apostasy. Listen again to

Ist Corinthians 10:20~"But I say that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God."

What light does that cast on the idolatries and abominations of heathendom and it is still alive and well! Listen again

2nd Corinthians 4:4"In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious Gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine onto them."

This means that Satan is the inspirer and director of false worship. Yes, he seeks worship, and is the chief promoter of all false worship.

What is biblical worship?   Later.....RB

[soterion]

Most of us think of worship as what we do in church...say some prayers, sing some hymns, listen to the sermon....

But have a read of this, sent to me by a friend today:

And this is how we worship God. It is interesting how little the New Testament uses the word 'worship' to mean 'what we do in a church service'. As in parts of the Old Testament, Paul here says that worship of God is best understood as a whole-of-life activity. We worship God – literally 'give God total worth' – when we obey God in acts of love. This worship is pleasing to God, and holy. A Christian is never not at worship – we are always relating to God, and always called upon to serve God with our bodies.And this is how we worship God. It is interesting how little the New Testament uses the word 'worship' to mean 'what we do in a church service'. As in parts of the Old Testament, Paul here says that worship of God is best understood as a whole-of-life activity. We worship God – literally 'give God total worth' – when we obey God in acts of love. This worship is pleasing to God, and holy. A Christian is never not at worship – we are always relating to God, and always called upon to serve God with our bodies.

We had been studying Romans 12:1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God – this is your true and proper worship.

Worship with your life.

From the quote: A Christian is never not at worship –

I can't agree. Unless, that is, "worship" is being defined as a certain attitude toward our lives and with regard to all of the things we are doing, such as an attitude of humility toward God as well as thanksgiving.

However, I believe there are two primary Greek words that are translated as "worship" in the English New Testament. Proskuneo is used to refer to the specific acts of prostration and adoration that the worshiper gives to God, as is found in John 9:38 and Acts 8:27. Latreuo refers to the service we give to God on a continual basis, as is found in Acts 26:7 and Revelation 22:3, as well as Romans 12:1. Proskuneo is aimed at God and Him alone; latreuo is according to His will but can be aimed at others for their benefit.

Proskuneo is a specific act of prostration toward God that has a beginning and an end. We see this in such passages as Acts 8:27 and Acts 24:11. In Matthew 5:23-24 the worshiper was to seek reconciliation with his brother (latreuo) before offering his worship towards God (Proskuneo).

Maybe I am defining the word "worship" too strictly, but I do not believe everything we do should be referred to as worship, even when the things we are doing are with love toward one another and toward our fellow man.

[seekingHiswisdom]

Most of us think of worship as what we do in church...say some prayers, sing some hymns, listen to the sermon....

But have a read of this, sent to me by a friend today:

And this is how we worship God. It is interesting how little the New Testament uses the word 'worship' to mean 'what we do in a church service'. As in parts of the Old Testament, Paul here says that worship of God is best understood as a whole-of-life activity. We worship God – literally 'give God total worth' – when we obey God in acts of love. This worship is pleasing to God, and holy. A Christian is never not at worship – we are always relating to God, and always called upon to serve God with our bodies.And this is how we worship God. It is interesting how little the New Testament uses the word 'worship' to mean 'what we do in a church service'. As in parts of the Old Testament, Paul here says that worship of God is best understood as a whole-of-life activity. We worship God – literally 'give God total worth' – when we obey God in acts of love. This worship is pleasing to God, and holy. A Christian is never not at worship – we are always relating to God, and always called upon to serve God with our bodies.

We had been studying Romans 12:1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God – this is your true and proper worship.

Worship with your life.

Thank you Piecrust for posting this.

It is an admirable goal, though one I fall far short of.

But funny how different biblical translations carry a somewhat different meaning.

KJV for example says:

1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Reasonable service is not the same as true and proper worship.

I believe your translation is NIV?

English standard says

12 :1 I appeal to you therefore, brothers,1 by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.

and NKJV says.

12: 1  I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service

[piecrust]

Worship with your life.  Live for Him.  Whatever you do, do it for the Lord. 

[RB]

John 4:21-24~"Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

When the "TRUE" worshippers~If there are true worshippers, then there are false worshippers, and it behooves us all to be the former.

Shall worship the Father~ALL TRUE worship is directed to God, the Everlasting Father of all things. Jehovah of Moses, the God of Israel, would be as clearly worshipped, but it would be very different. No longer confined to a LOCATION or a temple using weak and beggarly elements.  The Holy Ghost described the reverent and fearful worship of Jehovah as the object of N.T.

Hebrews 12:18-28~"For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more: (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart: And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:) But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

In spirit~This identifying mark of true worship changes the outward ceremony and ritual of Jewish worship. (the very elect under the OT KNEW this truth, others did not~Psalm 51:16-17) Old Testament worship occurred in a place with external ordinances of sensual perception and duty e.g. altar, miters, candlesticks, Ark of the Covenant, incense, showbread, laver, curtains, etc., etc. This is not the Holy Spirit at all; for the Holy Spirit you must go elsewhere in scripture. Romans 8; Galatians 5, 2nd Corinthians 3; etc. These scriptures describe the internal, spiritual, heart and mind worship of the New Testament protocol.


And in truth~.This identifying mark of true worship condemned the manmade lie of the Samaritan worship. It also condemned the distortion and hypocrisy of the Jews that Jesus took apart (Matthew 5-7). There is a right and wrong for every moral issue, especially the acceptable worship of Jehovah. Truth is defined, described, and limited by written revelation only (Deuteronomy 5:32; 12:32; Matthew 4:4).

For the Father seeketh such to worship him~God the Father, in His plan for worship, was through with the Jewish system of external religion. That God seeks true worshippers, and the identity of the worship is given, should greatly excite us. This verse is simply describing the change from the Old to New Testament form of worship. Jesus by these words introduced the earthshaking change in worship (Haggai 2:6-9; Hebrews 12:26-29). God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

God is a Spirit~God is not corporeal being with a body or form of anything at all~He is an eternal, invisible Spirit. It is a horrible shame that so many want some kind of image, object, or picture in order to worship. Because God is an invisible Spirit, all the outward and visible ceremonies of Moses missed the mark. The invisible Spirit that created the worlds cannot be worshipped in a temple made by human hands.

And they that worship him must worship him in spirit. Because God is an invisible spirit, the purest and best form of worship is that involving our spirit. External ceremonies and rituals of altars, incense, gold, candles, and such like do not match Him. God was never properly worshipped with animal blood, temples of stone, and carnal ordinances. We worship God acceptably in spirit by directing our inner affections and thoughts toward Him. For this reason, the apostolic direction for music was for a melody from our hearts, not an instrument in the true worship of God.

And in truth~.We must determine every aspect of our worship by the scriptures without regard for anything else, as we have taught and emphasized from the beginning (Psalm 119:128; 2nd Timothy 3:16-17; Jude 1:3; etc.).He has revealed His will for New Testament worship by the scriptures of the apostles for us to obey, and we must be as dogmatic about them as Jesus was against this sincere woman of Samaria. We must oppose any alteration, invention, or modification of the New Testament scriptures, no matter how esteemed those making the changes or how others may perceive the change. It does not matter how ancient or sincere worshippers are ~it is the word of God only that counts.

What Is Truth?

John 18:37-38~"Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice. Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all."

I had a lady mocking me once asked me the same question that Pilate asked Jesus:

Pilate saith unto him, What is truth?

So I ask all here WHAT IS TRUTH? True worship MUST have the truth. Anyone?

Later.....RB

[soterion]

Worship with your life.  Live for Him.  Whatever you do, do it for the Lord.

How do you define worship? What is worship?

It can't be defined as "live for...," and as "whatever you do, do it for..." If it could, I could say that I worship my wife, or my family, or my...whoever, or whatever.

Worship should definitely be one aspect of our relationship with God, but it is not the entirety (or, it shouldn't be).

[4WD]

For what it is worth -----

From Vine's OT:

Worship

shachah (H7812), "to worship, prostrate oneself, bow down." This word is found in modern Hebrew in the sense of "to bow or stoop," but not in the general sense of "to worship." The fact that it is found more than 170 times in the Hebrew Bible shows something of its cultural significance. It is found for the first time in Gen_18:2, where Abraham "bowed himself toward the ground" before the 3 messengers who announced that Sarah would have a son.

The act of bowing down in homage is generally done before a superior or a ruler. Thus, David "bowed" himself before Saul (1Sa_24:8). Sometimes it is a social or economic superior to whom one bows, as when Ruth "bowed" to the ground before Boaz (Rth_2:10). In a dream, Joseph saw the sheaves of his brothers "bowing down" before his sheaf (Gen_37:5, Gen_37:9-10). Shachah is used as the common term for coming before God in worship, as in 1Sa_15:25 and Jer_7:2. Sometimes it is in conjunction with another Hebrew verb for bowing down physically, followed by "worship," as in Exo_34:8 : "And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshiped." Other gods and idols are also the object of such worship by one's prostrating oneself before them (Isa_2:20; Isa_44:15, Isa_44:17).



From Vine's NT:

Worship, Worshiping

A. Verbs.
1. proskuneo (G4352), "to make obeisance, do reverence to" (from pros, "towards," and kuneo, "to kiss"), is the most frequent word rendered "to worship." It is used of an act of homage or reverence (a) to God, e.g., Mat_4:10; Joh_4:21-24; 1Co_14:25; Rev_4:10; Rev_5:14; Rev_7:11; Rev_11:16; Rev_19:10 (2nd part) and Rev_22:9; (b) to Christ, e.g., Mat_2:2, Mat_2:8, Mat_2:11; Mat_8:2; Mat_9:18; Mat_14:33; Mat_15:25; Mat_20:20; Mat_28:9, Mat_28:17; Joh_9:38; Heb_1:6, in a quotation from the Sept. of Deu_32:43, referring to Christ's second advent; (c) to a man, Mat_18:26; (d) to the Dragon, by men, Rev_13:4; (e) to the Beast, his human instrument, Rev_13:4, Rev_13:8, Rev_13:12; Rev_14:9, Rev_14:11; (f) the image of the Beast, Rev_13:15; Rev_14:11; Rev_16:2; (g) to demons, Rev_9:20; (h) to idols, Act_7:43.

Note: As to Mat_18:26, this is mentioned as follows, in the "List of readings and renderings preferred by the American Committee" (see RV Classes of Passages, IV): "At the word 'worship' in Mat_2:2, etc., add the marginal note 'The Greek word denotes an act of reverence, whether paid to man (see Mat_18:26) or to God (see Mat_4:10).'" The Note to Joh_9:38 in the American Standard Version in this connection is most unsound; it implies that Christ was a creature. J. N. Darby renders the verb "do homage" [see the Revised Preface to the Second Edition (1871), of his New Translation].

2. sebomai (G4576), "to revere," stressing the feeling of awe or devotion, is used of "worship" (a) to God, Mat_15:9; Mar_7:7; Act_16:14; Act_18:7, Act_18:13; (b) to a goddess, Act_19:27. See DEVOUT, No. 3.
3. sebazomai (G4573), akin to No. 2, "to honor religiously," is used in Rom_1:25.

4. latreuo (G3000), "to serve, to render religious service or homage," is translated "to worship" in Phi_3:3, "(who) worship (by the Spirit of God)," RV, KJV, "(which) worship (God in the spirit)"; the RV renders it "to serve" (for KJV, "to worship") in Act_7:42; Act_24:14; KJV and RV, "(the) worshipers" in Heb_10:2, present participle, lit., "(the ones) worshiping." see SERVE.

5. eusebeo (G2151), "to act piously towards," is translated "ye worship" in Act_17:23. See PIETY (to show).
Notes: (1) The worship of God is nowhere defined in Scripture. A consideration of the above verbs shows that it is not confined to praise; broadly it may be regarded as the direct acknowledgement to God, of His nature, attributes, ways and claims, whether by the outgoing of the heart in praise and thanksgiving or by deed done in such acknowledgment. (2) In Act_17:25 therapeuo, "to serve, do service to" (so RV), is rendered "is worshiped." see CURE, HEAL.


B. Nouns.
1. sebasma (G4574) denotes "an object of worship" (akin to A, No. 3); Act_17:23 (see DEVOTION); in 2Th_2:4, "that is worshiped"; every object of "worship," whether the true God or pagan idols, will come under the ban of the Man of Sin.

2. ethelothreskeia (or -ia) (G1479), "will-worship" (ethelo, "to will," threskeia, "worship"), occurs in Col_2:23, voluntarily adopted "worship," whether unbidden or forbidden, not that which is imposed by others, but which one affects.

3. threskeia (G2356), for which see RELIGION, is translated "worshiping" in Col_2:18.
Note: In Luk_14:10, KJV, doxa, "glory" (RV), is translated "worship."

[seekingHiswisdom]

How do you define worship? What is worship?

I find this link helpful to a certain understanding. What Does it Mean to 'Worship' as a Christian?

Jesus told us that we must worship God "in spirit and in truth," but what does this mean? While we've discussed the definition and history of worship, that knowledge is not as important as the practical application of expressing devotion to God.

While you may be expecting a concise step-by-step overview of praising God, worship is more personal than that. If worship means to show reverence and honor to God, then the ways to do so are as deeply personal as your relationship with him.

https://insider.pureflix.com/prayer-faith/what-does-it-mean-to-worship-as-a-christian

[soterion]

I find this link helpful to a certain understanding. What Does it Mean to 'Worship' as a Christian?

Jesus told us that we must worship God "in spirit and in truth," but what does this mean? While we've discussed the definition and history of worship, that knowledge is not as important as the practical application of expressing devotion to God.

While you may be expecting a concise step-by-step overview of praising God, worship is more personal than that. If worship means to show reverence and honor to God, then the ways to do so are as deeply personal as your relationship with him.

https://insider.pureflix.com/prayer-faith/what-does-it-mean-to-worship-as-a-christian

I wasn't asking for myself. I already posted what I think about it.

I want to know what piecrust thinks about it, besides her expressed belief that everything we do should be considered worship toward God.

[piecrust]

I wasn't asking for myself. I already posted what I think about it.

I want to know what piecrust thinks about it, besides her expressed belief that everything we do should be considered worship toward God.

My post was not enough?

[RB]

John 4:23,24~But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

More on worshipping God in spirit, before we consider in truth.....When our Lord said~"The hour cometh and now is" When true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth, does not mean that no one had up until that time not done so, for many had proven by Hebrews 11. It just means that the revelation of how true worship is performed is NOW made known with clearer LIGHT and UNDERSTANDING by the coming of the TRUE Lamb of God and his religion that far exceeded the religion of the Jews in the OT~see Hebrews 7-9; 2nd Corinthians 3, etc.

Considering our Lord Jesus' life in which he lived in the gospel's of Matthew-John, we get a true understanding of what it means to worship God in spirit and in truth. What better example do we have than that of Jesus' life? None.

First, considering Jesus' life we must conclude that true worship of God is said to consist in the spirit, because it is nothing else than that inward faith of the heart which produces prayer, and, next, purity of conscience and self-denial, that we may be dedicated to obedience to God as holy sacrifices~which FAR exceeds animals sacrifices of the Jews religion. David understood this truth.

Psalm 51:16,17~"For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise."

So, to worship God in spirit is to worship him with ALL humility of the mind!

Secondly, when our Lord said~"The hour cometh and now is" When true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth"~he also meant that the time has come, when men would no longer go to Jerusalem to worship for the new Jerusalem and its temple are the very elect,  whom ALL are a royal priesthood made up of Jews AND Gentiles being built and growing TOGETHER as the habitation of God through the Spirit, and those who are part of this temple, offer up spiritual sacrifices that is much more pleasing to God than THOUSANDS of rams and bullocks of the OT that were offered upon Israel's best days in the OT.

1st Peter 2:4-9~"To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.  But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Again:

Ephesians 2:19-22~"Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

No need to EVER go to earthly Jerusalem again to worship, for under the NEW COVENANT, there are spiritual sacrifices that children of faith offer unto God that is more pleasing, yea, NOT to be compared to fleshly sacrifices that that Israel after the flesh offered unto God.

Brethren, knowing these things to be so, how wicked is it of some who thinks that ONCE AGAIN Israel of old shall return back to their homeland and AGAIN offer animals sacrifices unto God? That's blasphemy and goes against what Christ has done for God's elect.

John 4:23,24~But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

So knowing these things let us:

Hebrews 13:15~"By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.

[piecrust]

WHAT IS TRUTH? [/i]True worship MUST have the truth. Anyone?

Later.....RB

What is Truth?  Jesus Christ

He said so Himself.  John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

Any and all worship God intends for the 'true believer' is the collective worship IN THE ASSEMBLING OF THE CALLED AND CHOSEN AND SEPARATED OR SANCTIFIED, the 'SAINTS', the MEMBERS of The Body of Christ's Own, the CHURCH.
This thing, the 'inward worship' or and 'spirit worship', is just that, inward and useless and spirit and vacuous, self-deceiving falsehood.

[RB]

Any and all worship God intends for the 'true believer' is the collective worship IN THE ASSEMBLING OF THE CALLED AND CHOSEN AND SEPARATED OR SANCTIFIED, the 'SAINTS', the MEMBERS of The Body of Christ's Own, the CHURCH.

Not really sure what you mean by that statement, if you do, then you need to do a better job of explaining yourself so others may learn.

This thing, the 'inward worship' or and 'spirit worship', is just that, inward and useless and spirit and vacuous, self-deceiving falsehood.

Are you speaking of what Jesus said? He's the very one that said:

John 4:23,24~"But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

You can believe him, and seek to understand what he meant, OR, remain in darkness and self-deception~ and ridicule and mock those who believe the scriptures.

A.W. Pink (1888-1952) well said: "God is Spirit; and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth" To worship "in spirit" stands contrasted from the fleshly rites and imposing ceremonies of Judaism. To worship "in truth" stands opposed to the superstitions and idolatrous delusions of the heathen. To worship God "in spirit and in truth" means in a manner suited to the full and final revelation which God has now made of Himself in Christ It means to worship spiritually and truly. It means giving to Him the homage of an enlightened understanding and the love of a regenerated heart.

To worship "in spirit and in truth" stands opposed to a carnal worship which is external and spectacular. It bars out all worshipping of God with the senses. We cannot worship Him who is "Spirit" by gazing on ornate architecture and stained glass windows, by listening to the peals of a costly organ, by smelling sweet incense or "telling" of beads. We cannot worship God with our eyes and ears, or nose and hands, for they are "flesh" not "spirit". "Must worship in spirit and in truth" excludes everything that is of the natural man in one true sense.

To worship "in spirit and in truth" bars out all soulical (soulish? RB) worship. The soul is the seat of the emotions, and very much of the so-called worship of present-day Christendom is only soulical. Touching anecdotes, stirring appeals, thrilling oratory of a religious character (red highlight is mine RB), are all calculated to produce this very thing. Beautiful anthems by a well-trained choir, rendered in such a way as to move to tears or to ecstasies of joy may stir the soul, but will not and cannot affect the inner man.....A.W.Pink

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

RB: #14
Are you speaking of what Jesus said? He's the very one that said:
Quote
John 4:23,24~"But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

What Jesus here said is hell in between away from what you are saying He said.
"But the hour cometh, and now is, when The True Worshipper-S the Church of the Chosen, Called and Recreated "SPIRITS" the People of God ELECT, who "shall worship the Father in spirit (of uprightness, humbleness and righteousness) and in truth (of The Word Jesus Christ and SCRIPTURE concerning HIM): for the Father seeketh such (honest repentant sinners rather than self-righteous 'spiritual' hypocrites) to worship him. For  God is Spirit (Omnipresent Omniscient Omnipotent): and they that worship HIM must (according to GOD'S Omnipresent Omniscient Omnipotent LAW AND ORDER-SPIRIT) worship HIM, in spirit (of uprightness, humbleness and righteousness) and in truth (of The Word Jesus Christ and SCRIPTURE concerning HIM)."

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

How dare anyone calling himself a Christian equate the spirit of man reborn or sanctified or glorified, with the SPIRIT which is God?!

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

RB: #14
You can believe him, and seek to understand what he meant, OR, remain in darkness and self-deception~ and ridicule and mock those who believe the scriptures.

The same

RB: #14
To worship "in spirit and in truth" bars out all soulical (soulish? RB) worship. The soul is the seat of the emotions, and very much of the so-called worship of present-day Christendom is only soulical.

We speak the same language, say the same thing, support one another, BUT YOU JUDGE ME?! WHY!?

No, don't answer me; answer Him who is and shall be the Judge of both of us.

[RB]

The same

We speak the same language, say the same thing, support one another, BUT YOU JUDGE ME?! WHY!?

No, don't answer me; answer Him who is and shall be the Judge of both of us.

Gerhard Ebersöhn, you are not very good of organizing your thoughts and then presenting them, or, maybe it's just a language barrier between us, I do not know. I do not totally disagree with what you have written and really, not sure your intent as to why you made your last three posts. You must learn to do better if you want to carry on a serious dialogue with me, or any other person. So, I will refrain from commenting on these last three posts. I'm NOT attempting to put you down just bringing up a fact that you must be aware of if you want to discuss the scriptures with anyone.

[4WD]

Gerhard Ebersöhn, you are not very good of organizing your thoughts and then presenting them....

Wow, RB, that is an understatement to be sure.  I can only conclude that his thinking is as muddled as his writing.

[piecrust]

I think there is a language barrier.  I think Gerhard does not speak English as his first language, or at least it is not the same English as spoken in Australia, United States, or for that matter Britain.

[soterion]

This isn't just a simple language barrier issue. I have communicated plenty with people of different cultures and nations who strive to be understood by their English speaking audiences. You can tell when a sincere effort is being made to be understood.

This is something else.

[piecrust]

This isn't just a simple language barrier issue. I have communicated plenty with people of different cultures and nations who strive to be understood by their English speaking audiences. You can tell when a sincere effort is being made to be understood.

This is something else.

That's interesting.  Do  you think it might be something like arrogance?

[soterion]

That's interesting.  Do  you think it might be something like arrogance?

I'm not gonna say all that. Any of us can be interpreted as being arrogant by someone else who disagrees.

There are times when a person is communicating with perfect clarity and word usage, along with proper punctuation; not a stranger to the language. At other times, completely incoherent and sometimes directly offensive. I can't say if such is on purpose or not or what the motives might be.

[piecrust]

I'm not gonna say all that. Any of us can be interpreted as being arrogant by someone else who disagrees.

There are times when a person is communicating with perfect clarity and word usage, along with proper punctuation; not a stranger to the language. At other times, completely incoherent and sometimes directly offensive. I can't say if such is on purpose or not or what the motives might be.

Almost like he's two separate people?

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

Tumbleweeds .. America and Africa have in common that both have vast and windy deserts of DENSE population.

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

O, the oo-ing and aa-ing, the smiling and nodding and waving and sailing and shouting, the embracing and Amens and Alleluias! O, the worship!
Only the bon-fire with the obsolete old Scripture Law seemingly lacks. It isn't lacking; it has been optimised, been spiritualised, been made true worship.

[Hobie]

Well, we see most people are spending their time with what they worship, and call them the greatest singers, or sports players, or rock band, or sports car, or even make idols of their children and grandchildren or other objects of their affection which turn them away from God or His will.

[Texas Conservative]

Well, we see most people are spending their time with what they worship, and call them the greatest singers, or sports players, or rock band, or sports car, or even make idols of their children and grandchildren or other objects of their affection which turn them away from God or His will.

Or make idols of a false prophetess.

[Hobie]

Most of us think of worship as what we do in church...say some prayers, sing some hymns, listen to the sermon....

But have a read of this, sent to me by a friend today:

And this is how we worship God. It is interesting how little the New Testament uses the word 'worship' to mean 'what we do in a church service'. As in parts of the Old Testament, Paul here says that worship of God is best understood as a whole-of-life activity. We worship God – literally 'give God total worth' – when we obey God in acts of love. This worship is pleasing to God, and holy. A Christian is never not at worship – we are always relating to God, and always called upon to serve God with our bodies.And this is how we worship God. It is interesting how little the New Testament uses the word 'worship' to mean 'what we do in a church service'. As in parts of the Old Testament, Paul here says that worship of God is best understood as a whole-of-life activity. We worship God – literally 'give God total worth' – when we obey God in acts of love. This worship is pleasing to God, and holy. A Christian is never not at worship – we are always relating to God, and always called upon to serve God with our bodies.

We had been studying Romans 12:1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God – this is your true and proper worship.

Worship with your life.

Yet six days He gave you to do your work..

[4WD]

What we call today the "worship service" is not ever even mentioned in the Bible. The meeting together is never called "worship" in the Bible as near as I can tell. 

[Amo]

Psa 132:3 Surely I will not come into the tabernacle of my house, nor go up into my bed; 4 I will not give sleep to mine eyes, or slumber to mine eyelids, 5 Until I find out a place for the LORD, an habitation for the mighty God of Jacob. 6 Lo, we heard of it at Ephratah: we found it in the fields of the wood. 7 We will go into his tabernacles: we will worship at his footstool. 8 Arise, O LORD, into thy rest; thou, and the ark of thy strength. 9 Let thy priests be clothed with righteousness; and let thy saints shout for joy.

Psa 138:1 I will praise thee with my whole heart: before the gods will I sing praise unto thee. 2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

Jer 26:1 In the beginning of the reign of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah came this word from the LORD, saying, 2 Thus saith the LORD; Stand in the court of the LORD'S house, and speak unto all the cities of Judah, which come to worship in the LORD'S house, all the words that I command thee to speak unto them; diminish not a word:

Ezk 46:2 And the prince shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate without, and shall stand by the post of the gate, and the priests shall prepare his burnt offering and his peace offerings, and he shall worship at the threshold of the gate: then he shall go forth; but the gate shall not be shut until the evening. 3 Likewise the people of the land shall worship at the door of this gate before the LORD in the sabbaths and in the new moons.

Jhn 4:19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Rev 11:1  And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. 2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.