Need more help - Infidelity form cont.

[jolynn44]

If anyone remembers my last post, I confessed that I cheated and needed advice. I have remained faithful, loyal, honest.. I have been attending church, and still going to counseling. Well, I need more advice because a major problem came up.

Well, since my last post, my boyfriend has told me a few things that have hurt me deeply. About a month ago, he let me know what his thoughts have been since the incident, and I'm wishing I didn't know. He said he's been wondering if he should kick me out, wondering if he should look for someone/ if he deserves better, and his idea for revenge, which was inviting another woman into our home while I am home and having sex with her in our bed while I'm in the next room. I've been severely depressed, and, no matter how many times I talk to the pastor at my church or talk to my counselor, nothing helps. Nothing makes me feel better. I can't get over those words. I feel like I have been stabbed in the heart. We have been fighting nonstop since, and I hate to fight. And with me being almost 8 months pregnant, the stress is really taking a toll on me.

Last Saturday, we had another fight that lasted from the time he went to work til the time he got off. We made up, or so I thought. I fell asleep early on the couch (which has become the most comfortable thing in my house), and I thought he was watching documentaries all night. Turns out he had signed himself up on a dating site, seeking, what he said, "advice." I'm sorry, but no one goes on a dating site just for advice. Now, I didn't find this out until this past Thursday. I had noticed, though, that he was being very secretive with his phone, like taking it with him everywhere (to the bathroom, to the kitchen, when he would just go to the car, etc.), turning it off when I was in the room, not telling me who contacted him... So, one night, I got curious when his phone went off at 2 am. I was awake because my oldest woke me up. I looked through his phone, and found messages from two different women - one was a prostitute, and the other I didn't know. I woke him up and demanded to know. He said he was on the site, and the other woman was from the site. The prostitute he found through Craigslist. We fought for two hours that night (well, morning). When he went to work, I figured out his log in for the site, and he posted some of the most horrible things about me. He even posted a picture of himself, shirtless. (Please pardon the language that's to come. This is what I found on his page.) On his status, he made several statements: "Where are all the loyal honest marrying type of women?" "Preggo gf cheated. Don't know if I should get rid of her or stay." "If I were single, who would be interested in me?" "I'm a one woman man. I want to find someone who is faithful, but instead I got stuck with a lying, cheating a** preggo gf." Then he messaged over 50 women, asking, "Would you be interested in me?" "You are so gorgeous (or pretty, beautiful). Would I have a shot with you?" "Lying preggo gf cheated. Should I?" "You know you're sexy, so I'll skip the obvious. Would I have a chance with you? Problem is I'm still living with my lying cheating a** preggo gf. Should I kick her out?" Then there was one girl that asked him for sex. His response was, "I'd like to, but right now I'm on my way to pick up my car." I was in tears. I couldn't help but wonder if what I've been doing, and what he has asked me to do, is even worth it.

We fought again last night about the site, and told him I considered this cheating and very hypocritical. I then asked him if he really wanted to split and only see his daughter once a week (he only has one day off a week), and he said no because if we split he will file for full custody and I will lose her. I don't know what to do. I'm so depressed. I can't wrap my head around everything that has happened. I don't want to lose my baby to this man. I have suggested counseling for both of us, but he refuses because he says it is a waste of time.

Can someone please tell me what I can do?

[chosenone]

It sounds to me as if he is very hurt and very angry about you cheating, and has reacted badly to it by wanting to hurt you back. A normal human reaction. Obviously his behaviour is just going to make it all worse, but he is looking for acceptance and affirmation from other women because he feels very rejected.
Its sort of hard to know what to advise as you arent actually married. It may even be a good idea for you to seperate for a while so that you can both calm down, pray and ask God what you need to do, and not live together again until this is sorted and you can decide whether to get married or not.

Just a question, what does your pastor say about all this?

[jolynn44]

My pastor applauds me for wanting to turn my life around. He doesn't approve of my life style, but our church's slogan is "No perfect people allowed," so he isn't judging too much. I didn't get to go to church and talk to him yesterday because I was having contractions and was advised to stay in bed. I'm hoping he will be there tomorrow after I take my oldest to school, so I can discuss this with him.

I know he is hurt. But it doesn't make sense to me for him stoop this low. :/

[Lively Stone]

I want to be a Christian, and have the life that Christians live, but

Have you asked the Lord Jesus to come into your life and to forgive you of all your sin? Have you asked Him to come in and live His life in and through you? You cannot live the life of a Christian without being one.

I feel far from God, and that God is tired of hearing repentance from me, only to have me fall away again and again.

If you have asked the Lord to be your Saviour, you need to ask Him to be your Lord. If you have done that, then you need to be aware that your feelings are no barometer of what the truth really is. You would have Holy Spirit living in you who will tell you that what you are thinking and doing is sin, and so it would be up to you to submit to the Lord's will concerning these things.

God NEVER tires of hearing from us, and from taking our repentance, and offering His forgiveness. The word of God tells us that those of us who are His will sin and that those sins are constantly being cleansed by an ongoing flow of the cleansing blood of Jesus---CONTINUOUSLY. That is the provision of the grace of God for His children. That produces peace and confidence in us as we fearlessly live our lives.

1 John 1:9 AMP
If we [freely] admit that we have sinned and confess our sins, He is faithful and just (true to His own nature and promises) and will forgive our sins [dismiss our lawlessness] and [continuously] cleanse us from all unrighteousness [everything not in conformity to His will in purpose, thought, and action].

[fcadcock]

You say that you go to church, but where is he?  Does he go to church with you?  Do your children go as well?

I cannot condone cheating; either his, or yours.  But at the same time, I won't say that what either party has done was worse than the other's actions.  Sleeping with another guy (I didn't read the first message, so I'm assuming that's what happened) it a huge violation of trust, but so it contacting other women on a dating site; even if it's just to feel out his options.  Cheating on someone emotionally is cheating on someone.

I also can't condone living with and sleeping with someone you are not married to.  At this point, the damage seems to have already been done.  You're pregnant with his child, you have both cheated on the other, and you are fighting frequently.  Is this the sort of relationship you want your children growing up seeing as normal Christian behavior?

My advice is not going to be easy to take, but it's rooted in love for a fellow Christian and biblical teaching, so here goes.

At this point, I see two options.  Neither is a sure bet to work out so that your children grow up respecting your decisions or having a Christ-centered view of marriage and relationships, but both will put you on better ground than you're at now.

The first option is to fight for this relationship.  Do whatever you have to do to get it back on track, marry the man, and live as a family who's focus is on Christ instead of yourselves.  That focus on "me, me, me" instead of "Christ, Christ, Christ" is what got you where you are, and what is getting him where he is, and it's wrong.

The second option is to walk away, fight for this child (as the mother, you have a better chance of keeping custody than him) and to raise your children in a Christ centered home, free of sexual impurity, live-in-boyfriends, cheating, and fighting over who did what to who.

Both options require you to change your focus from yourself to Christ.  The first one also requires that he do the same.  If he is unwilling, then the first option isn't an option.  If you can't do it, yourself, your children WILL repeat the cycle that they grew up in.  If you cannot teach them through your own actions that the way you've been living is wrong, both in the eyes of god and simply as a positive way of life, then they will grow up believing that it is right or seeing a disconnect between the words we speak in church and the actions we have in our daily lives.

Your choices have put you into this situation, and it will take your choices to get you out.  I can promise you that this community will support you as you move forward, but it's going to take movement to get you out.  It's not going to be easy, it's not going to be comfortable.  Important decisions rarely are.  But your decisions here affect more than you alone as a mother.

[jolynn44]

Unfortunately, he does not go to church. I have encouraged it frequently, but he doesn't go. My oldest does go with me, and the baby (obviously) goes. lol. She doesn't have a say-so since I'm still carrying her.

I definitely want a better relationship, and I sure don't want my girls growing up around the fighting and seeing every bad thing that happens. I want a Christian household.

I know I was very selfish in what happened, and guilt has flooded me, which is why I'm trying to get back to Christ. And I really am doing everything I can to make things right. But it seems that what I'm doing isn't good enough for him. I'm not sure if he wants to marry me after what I did. I have been waiting for him to ask me marry him for almost 5 years. He hasn't done it.

My dad has even said walk away. My friends have said walk away. Logically, it is probably a good thing. Emotionally, I'm not sure I can handle it. I have loved this man for the entire time we've been together. I've been praying and talking to people about this, and I'm still very unsure.

I don't want my girls repeating my mistakes. I can't believe I was this stupid... :(

[Lively Stone]

Unfortunately, he does not go to church. I have encouraged it frequently, but he doesn't go. My oldest does go with me, and the baby (obviously) goes. lol. She doesn't have a say-so since I'm still carrying her.

I definitely want a better relationship, and I sure don't want my girls growing up around the fighting and seeing every bad thing that happens. I want a Christian household.

I know I was very selfish in what happened, and guilt has flooded me, which is why I'm trying to get back to Christ. And I really am doing everything I can to make things right. But it seems that what I'm doing isn't good enough for him. I'm not sure if he wants to marry me after what I did. I have been waiting for him to ask me marry him for almost 5 years. He hasn't done it.

My dad has even said walk away. My friends have said walk away. Logically, it is probably a good thing. Emotionally, I'm not sure I can handle it. I have loved this man for the entire time we've been together. I've been praying and talking to people about this, and I'm still very unsure.

I don't want my girls repeating my mistakes. I can't believe I was this stupid... :(

This is not a relationship that God would will for you. It is a relationship that you have embarked upon by the use of your own will. I believe that the other significant people in your life are giving good counsel---walk away. What you describe of your relationship is not a loving one.

As you are not married and living together, the best course of action is to separate, and begin to live your life as a single Christian. It is not going to be an easy roads. Get into a good, bible-believing local church that will love you and support you spiritually and with people you can make as friends who will support you also in your emotional trials that this will engender. I am surprised your pastor has not counseled you both to separate in accordance with the word of God that we need to avoid the appearance of evil by our lifestyle, not to mention yoking ourselves with unbelievers. Even though you are not married, you are yoking yourselves together by a sexual relationship, and it is a sham marriage according to God.

Now is the time to get real and to seek God first and foremost, so that all your dreams and desires He will fulfill for you as you live your life to please God and to bring glory to His name. who knows? This may turn your boyfriend's heart toward God. As things are now, that isn't going to happen.

Matthew 6:33
Seek the Kingdom of God above all else, and live righteously, and he will give you everything you need.

[chosenone]

Unfortunately, he does not go to church. I have encouraged it frequently, but he doesn't go. My oldest does go with me, and the baby (obviously) goes. lol. She doesn't have a say-so since I'm still carrying her.

I definitely want a better relationship, and I sure don't want my girls growing up around the fighting and seeing every bad thing that happens. I want a Christian household.

I know I was very selfish in what happened, and guilt has flooded me, which is why I'm trying to get back to Christ. And I really am doing everything I can to make things right. But it seems that what I'm doing isn't good enough for him. I'm not sure if he wants to marry me after what I did. I have been waiting for him to ask me marry him for almost 5 years. He hasn't done it.

My dad has even said walk away. My friends have said walk away. Logically, it is probably a good thing. Emotionally, I'm not sure I can handle it. I have loved this man for the entire time we've been together. I've been praying and talking to people about this, and I'm still very unsure.

I don't want my girls repeating my mistakes. I can't believe I was this stupid... :(

Dont wait for a guy to ask you, refuse to live with him unless he does. What incentive has he had to marry you all this time?
I really think, as had been said, that you need to seperate. Not only is this stuff all happening, but he isnt a believer either. I would strongly advise against marrying him at this time until you have had a long period of praying and asking God for clear guidance.

[TonkaTim]

One thing most young folks who "hook up" need to realise when they do.... It is marriage.

You've taken this man as your husband.
He has taken you as a wife.
The marriage bed has been consummated & is evidenced by your children.

Yall share everything that makes a marriage except the understanding.

There lies the problem.

In your minds you two think of each other as unmarried & call each the names of friends , girlfriend/boyfriend, not the names of committed lovers, husband/wife. You have have been deceived.
This modern deception called "hooking up" denies you two the Rock which is the foundation of all things, especially the Godly commitment required of marriage the true "hook up".

Your marriage can be repaired but it must be rebuilt on The Foundation.

Both of you will have to realise this, find forgiveness & make it right.

You also say you hate fighting & do not want to expose your children to it. Then Stop! It takes two to fight, if you refuse, he can only gripe.

First & foremost examine your commitment to Christ. Are you truly saved? Do you truly Believe? Have you come to the foot of the Cross knowing & understanding your rebellion? Knowing your true need for Him? Has He lifted you up new & clean standing in front of the empty tomb, a new creature ready to serve Him? If so, serve Him, trust Him because God has called you to Peace.

[fcadcock]

It's been 5 years.  Are you going to wait another 5? 

I've been in your shoes (well, as much as any man can be).  I was living with a girl I loved very much, raising her child as my own, and feeling guilty every time we had sex because I knew it was wrong.  I tried to get her to go to church but she resisted.  I tried to show her that we were teaching her daughter to live in ways we both knew were wrong.  None of that helped change anything and I was forced to make the decision to leave rather than continue setting a bad example for her daughter by living in ways that were not consistent with my faith. 

It's one of the best decisions I've ever made!  I have been able to live without constant guilt from having sex with a woman I know I should not be having sex with.  I get to live without compromising my faith because of love for an unbeliever.  I get to date women who view sex as a gift from God rather than a god unto itself. And most importantly, I get to set an example for my future children that will show them how to live out faithful lives centered around Christ.

Was it hard to leave?  You bet.  I literally went from shopping for engagement rings to shopping for apartments to move into, alone.  I had to leave behind the most comfortable relationship I've ever been in with a woman I loved dearly.  I had to leave a little girl who I also loved dearly, as if she were my own daughter.  I still miss them.  I miss the friendship I had with the woman and the love I felt from her.  I miss the little girl every time I see a child around her age.  But I am better off today because of it, and so are they.  I am better off because I am now free to live a life centered on Christ and they are better off because they don't have to live with a man who was struggling to live under the guilt of sin that was tearing him apart.  No, there is no one in their lives now setting an example of how to be a Christian.  But there's also no one setting an example of how to be a really bad Christian either.

I can't tell you what to do.  That decision is up to you.  My situation was not the same as yours is now.  All I can do is tell you what my situation was like in hopes that it helps you make a better decision about what you should do, and urge you to listen to your family.  Don't marry a non-believer as he will not be able to set a good example for your children, and he will not be able to act as the bible instructs in order to bring his family closer to God.

[chosenone]

One thing most young folks who "hook up" need to realise when they do.... It is marriage.

You've taken this man as your husband.
He has taken you as a wife.
The marriage bed has been consummated & is evidenced by your children.

Yall share everything that makes a marriage except the understanding.

There lies the problem.

In your minds you two think of each other as unmarried & call each the names of friends , girlfriend/boyfriend, not the names of committed lovers, husband/wife. You have have been deceived.
This modern deception called "hooking up" denies you two the Rock which is the foundation of all things, especially the Godly commitment required of marriage the true "hook up".

Your marriage can be repaired but it must be rebuilt on The Foundation.

Both of you will have to realise this, find forgiveness & make it right.

You also say you hate fighting & do not want to expose your children to it. Then Stop! It takes two to fight, if you refuse, he can only gripe.

First & foremost examine your commitment to Christ. Are you truly saved? Do you truly Believe? Have you come to the foot of the Cross knowing & understanding your rebellion? Knowing your true need for Him? Has He lifted you up new & clean standing in front of the empty tomb, a new creature ready to serve Him? If so, serve Him, trust Him because God has called you to Peace.

Living together and having sex does not make you married. Sex outside marriage is sin. Paul says 'get married' not 'live together'  They are not married till they get married according to the laws of country they are living in, in obedience to the Bible.

[fcadcock]

chosenone, I agree.  If sleeping with someone instantly made you a married couple, there would be no need for the bible to mention premarital sex, as ALL sex would be marital sex.

There is a LOT more that goes into a marriage than simply having sex.  Marriage is a commitment between two people to love and support each other in this life while working together to grow closer to God both individually and as a man and wife.  Sex is two people doing "the bedroom tango" because it feels good.  There's a huge difference in those two things...  One is a covenant between two people and God, the other isn't.  Having sex does not mean that those two people have made that commitment to their spouse and God, and recognizing premarital sex as marriage does nothing but lower the expectations and views of actual marriage.

[TonkaTim]

One thing most young folks who "hook up" need to realise when they do.... It is marriage.

You've taken this man as your husband.
He has taken you as a wife.
The marriage bed has been consummated & is evidenced by your children.

Yall share everything that makes a marriage except the understanding.

There lies the problem.

In your minds you two think of each other as unmarried & call each the names of friends , girlfriend/boyfriend, not the names of committed lovers, husband/wife. You have have been deceived.
This modern deception called "hooking up" denies you two the Rock which is the foundation of all things, especially the Godly commitment required of marriage the true "hook up".

Your marriage can be repaired but it must be rebuilt on The Foundation.

Both of you will have to realise this, find forgiveness & make it right.

You also say you hate fighting & do not want to expose your children to it. Then Stop! It takes two to fight, if you refuse, he can only gripe.

First & foremost examine your commitment to Christ. Are you truly saved? Do you truly Believe? Have you come to the foot of the Cross knowing & understanding your rebellion? Knowing your true need for Him? Has He lifted you up new & clean standing in front of the empty tomb, a new creature ready to serve Him? If so, serve Him, trust Him because God has called you to Peace.

Living together and having sex does not make you married. Sex outside marriage is sin. Paul says 'get married' not 'live together'  They are not married till they get married according to the laws of country they are living in, in obedience to the Bible.

So you're a saying that a certificate from the State is what ordains Holy Matrimony?
And that it is not a union between a man & a woman?

[Lively Stone]

One thing most young folks who "hook up" need to realise when they do.... It is marriage.

You've taken this man as your husband.
He has taken you as a wife.
The marriage bed has been consummated & is evidenced by your children.

Yall share everything that makes a marriage except the understanding.

There lies the problem.

In your minds you two think of each other as unmarried & call each the names of friends , girlfriend/boyfriend, not the names of committed lovers, husband/wife. You have have been deceived.
This modern deception called "hooking up" denies you two the Rock which is the foundation of all things, especially the Godly commitment required of marriage the true "hook up".

Your marriage can be repaired but it must be rebuilt on The Foundation.

Both of you will have to realise this, find forgiveness & make it right.

You also say you hate fighting & do not want to expose your children to it. Then Stop! It takes two to fight, if you refuse, he can only gripe.

First & foremost examine your commitment to Christ. Are you truly saved? Do you truly Believe? Have you come to the foot of the Cross knowing & understanding your rebellion? Knowing your true need for Him? Has He lifted you up new & clean standing in front of the empty tomb, a new creature ready to serve Him? If so, serve Him, trust Him because God has called you to Peace.

Unmarried people who live together are not husband and wife but are fornicators.

[chosenone]

One thing most young folks who "hook up" need to realise when they do.... It is marriage.

You've taken this man as your husband.
He has taken you as a wife.
The marriage bed has been consummated & is evidenced by your children.

Yall share everything that makes a marriage except the understanding.

There lies the problem.

In your minds you two think of each other as unmarried & call each the names of friends , girlfriend/boyfriend, not the names of committed lovers, husband/wife. You have have been deceived.
This modern deception called "hooking up" denies you two the Rock which is the foundation of all things, especially the Godly commitment required of marriage the true "hook up".

Your marriage can be repaired but it must be rebuilt on The Foundation.

Both of you will have to realise this, find forgiveness & make it right.

You also say you hate fighting & do not want to expose your children to it. Then Stop! It takes two to fight, if you refuse, he can only gripe.

First & foremost examine your commitment to Christ. Are you truly saved? Do you truly Believe? Have you come to the foot of the Cross knowing & understanding your rebellion? Knowing your true need for Him? Has He lifted you up new & clean standing in front of the empty tomb, a new creature ready to serve Him? If so, serve Him, trust Him because God has called you to Peace.

Living together and having sex does not make you married. Sex outside marriage is sin. Paul says 'get married' not 'live together'  They are not married till they get married according to the laws of country they are living in, in obedience to the Bible.

So you're a saying that a certificate from the State is what ordains Holy Matrimony?
And that it is not a union between a man & a woman?

Paul says that we cant control our lusts that we are to marry. He does not say that we are to live togather and have sex anyway.
A certificate is merely the proof of the marriage ceremony, not the ceremony itself,

If you remember the story of the woman at the well, where the lady had been married 5 times, and was, when she met Jesus, living with another man, Jesus says, 'you have had 5 husbands, but the man you are now living with is not your husband'. Clearly, according to Jesus, they were not husband and wife just because they were living together.
It is only marriage that makes you husband and wife. There are no loopholes. We are told to obey the laws of our country.

[TonkaTim]

One thing most young folks who "hook up" need to realise when they do.... It is marriage.

You've taken this man as your husband.
He has taken you as a wife.
The marriage bed has been consummated & is evidenced by your children.

Yall share everything that makes a marriage except the understanding.

There lies the problem.

In your minds you two think of each other as unmarried & call each the names of friends , girlfriend/boyfriend, not the names of committed lovers, husband/wife. You have have been deceived.
This modern deception called "hooking up" denies you two the Rock which is the foundation of all things, especially the Godly commitment required of marriage the true "hook up".

Your marriage can be repaired but it must be rebuilt on The Foundation.

Both of you will have to realise this, find forgiveness & make it right.

You also say you hate fighting & do not want to expose your children to it. Then Stop! It takes two to fight, if you refuse, he can only gripe.

First & foremost examine your commitment to Christ. Are you truly saved? Do you truly Believe? Have you come to the foot of the Cross knowing & understanding your rebellion? Knowing your true need for Him? Has He lifted you up new & clean standing in front of the empty tomb, a new creature ready to serve Him? If so, serve Him, trust Him because God has called you to Peace.

Living together and having sex does not make you married. Sex outside marriage is sin. Paul says 'get married' not 'live together'  They are not married till they get married according to the laws of country they are living in, in obedience to the Bible.

So you're a saying that a certificate from the State is what ordains Holy Matrimony?
And that it is not a union between a man & a woman?

Paul says that we cant control our lusts that we are to marry. He does not say that we are to live togather and have sex anyway.
A certificate is merely the proof of the marriage ceremony, not the ceremony itself,

If you remember the story of the woman at the well, where the lady had been married 5 times, and was, when she met Jesus, living with another man, Jesus says, 'you have had 5 husbands, but the man you are now living with is not your husband'. Clearly, according to Jesus, they were not husband and wife just because they were living together.
It is only marriage that makes you husband and wife. There are no loopholes. We are told to obey the laws of our country.

Is it possible her 5th husband was still alive?

I agree with Paul about it being better to marry than burn.

You must also agree then the practice of the Kurdish Chieftains to deflower the Christian Armenian brides prior to the ceremony was acceptable since it was the law?

Before we get bogged down in legalism I'd suggest a reread of my post to try & understand what I'm saying.

Because; By all intents & purposes they are married. They live as they are married. They share a home as they are married. They have children as they are married. They are provoked to jealousy & grief due to the infidelity as they are married. So, for all intents & purposes they are.

But, one will also note I said: "This modern deception called "hooking up" denies you two the Rock which is the foundation of all things, especially the Godly commitment required of marriage"

Why I also said: "Your marriage can be repaired but it must be rebuilt on The Foundation."

and: "Both of you will have to realise this, find forgiveness & make it right."

Then I went onto attempt to give the keys to "make it right":
First & foremost examine your commitment to Christ. Are you truly saved? Do you truly Believe? Have you come to the foot of the Cross knowing & understanding your rebellion? Knowing your true need for Him? Has He lifted you up new & clean standing in front of the empty tomb, a new creature ready to serve Him? If so, serve Him, trust Him because God has called you to Peace.


I chose my words carefully & prayerfully for a purpose.

[fcadcock]

Tonka, you're arguing against Jesus's own words here.  It's a losing battle.  You cannot win arguing against the Son of God's own words.

In deuteronomy we are told that if a man rapes a woman and it is discovered, he should marry her.  Clearly they are not married when they have sex. 

Living together or even having children together do not make a couple married.  A marriage is very clearly a covenant between two people and God and unless this covenant has been made, there is no marriage.  Arguing against that is arguing against the bible.  To quote Paul on an unrelated subject "If anyone wants to be contentious about this, we have no other practice - nor do the churches of God."

[chosenone]

One thing most young folks who "hook up" need to realise when they do.... It is marriage.

You've taken this man as your husband.
He has taken you as a wife.
The marriage bed has been consummated & is evidenced by your children.

Yall share everything that makes a marriage except the understanding.

There lies the problem.

In your minds you two think of each other as unmarried & call each the names of friends , girlfriend/boyfriend, not the names of committed lovers, husband/wife. You have have been deceived.
This modern deception called "hooking up" denies you two the Rock which is the foundation of all things, especially the Godly commitment required of marriage the true "hook up".

Your marriage can be repaired but it must be rebuilt on The Foundation.

Both of you will have to realise this, find forgiveness & make it right.

You also say you hate fighting & do not want to expose your children to it. Then Stop! It takes two to fight, if you refuse, he can only gripe.

First & foremost examine your commitment to Christ. Are you truly saved? Do you truly Believe? Have you come to the foot of the Cross knowing & understanding your rebellion? Knowing your true need for Him? Has He lifted you up new & clean standing in front of the empty tomb, a new creature ready to serve Him? If so, serve Him, trust Him because God has called you to Peace.

Living together and having sex does not make you married. Sex outside marriage is sin. Paul says 'get married' not 'live together'  They are not married till they get married according to the laws of country they are living in, in obedience to the Bible.

So you're a saying that a certificate from the State is what ordains Holy Matrimony?
And that it is not a union between a man & a woman?

Paul says that we cant control our lusts that we are to marry. He does not say that we are to live togather and have sex anyway.
A certificate is merely the proof of the marriage ceremony, not the ceremony itself,

If you remember the story of the woman at the well, where the lady had been married 5 times, and was, when she met Jesus, living with another man, Jesus says, 'you have had 5 husbands, but the man you are now living with is not your husband'. Clearly, according to Jesus, they were not husband and wife just because they were living together.
It is only marriage that makes you husband and wife. There are no loopholes. We are told to obey the laws of our country.

Is it possible her 5th husband was still alive?

I agree with Paul about it being better to marry than burn.

You must also agree then the practice of the Kurdish Chieftains to deflower the Christian Armenian brides prior to the ceremony was acceptable since it was the law?

Before we get bogged down in legalism I'd suggest a reread of my post to try & understand what I'm saying.

Because; By all intents & purposes they are married. They live as they are married. They share a home as they are married. They have children as they are married. They are provoked to jealousy & grief due to the infidelity as they are married. So, for all intents & purposes they are.

But, one will also note I said: "This modern deception called "hooking up" denies you two the Rock which is the foundation of all things, especially the Godly commitment required of marriage"

Why I also said: "Your marriage can be repaired but it must be rebuilt on The Foundation."

and: "Both of you will have to realise this, find forgiveness & make it right."

Then I went onto attempt to give the keys to "make it right":
First & foremost examine your commitment to Christ. Are you truly saved? Do you truly Believe? Have you come to the foot of the Cross knowing & understanding your rebellion? Knowing your true need for Him? Has He lifted you up new & clean standing in front of the empty tomb, a new creature ready to serve Him? If so, serve Him, trust Him because God has called you to Peace.


I chose my words carefully & prayerfully for a purpose.

Jesus said you HAVE had five husbands. Not you have, but you have had. Past tense. Therefore she cant have still been married. The man she was living with was not her husband.

Yes they are living together AS IF they are married, but thery are NOT married.
Living in the same house and having sex, doesnt make you married. You are encouraging people to sin here.
A relative of mine recently left her live in boyfriend because he refused to marry her. They had been living togather for about 7 years She came back to God and she KNEW that God was wanting her to leave because it was wrong for her as a believer to be living with him while not being married.

People can live with several partners one after another, they cant be 'married' to all of them.

[DaveW]

having sex does not make you married. Sex outside marriage is sin.

Amen.

In my previous forums home that was written right into the TOS and warnings were given to people who kept harping the opposite viewpoint.

[DaveW]

So you're a saying that a certificate from the State is what ordains Holy Matrimony?
And that it is not a union between a man & a woman?

Marriage is a covenant.  In our society that covenant is "ordained" (your word) in a marriage certificate.  In NT times it was ordained in a document also - called a "Ketubah." (look it up)

That covenant commitment makes the difference between the physical union being commanded and forbidden.

[DaveW]

If you remember the story of the woman at the well, where the lady had been married 5 times, and was, when she met Jesus, living with another man, Jesus says, 'you have had 5 husbands, but the man you are now living with is not your husband'. Clearly, according to Jesus, they were not husband and wife just because they were living together.

This is not a good story to make the argument, mainly because it is so badly misunderstood.

The woman (and village) was Samaritan. Their culture and laws were very different from the Jewish community of the NT.  That woman would have had no say in who she was married to and she had no option of divorce.  All that was up to her father or brother(s) and her current husband. The most common reason for divorce in Samaria was infertility; common with the Samaritans but not legal in Judaism. Since she had no children (usually accompanied mom to get the water) it is very likely she was barren.  If she had no living male relatives, a divorce would put her on the street with no means of living. (maybe go be a prostitute to the Greeks or Romans in another city) So apparently someone had mercy on her and took her in.  There is no indication one way or the other as to whether that relationship was sexual, except if it was and that became known to the community, both would have been stoned to death.

[TonkaTim]

One thing most young folks who "hook up" need to realise when they do.... It is marriage.

You've taken this man as your husband.
He has taken you as a wife.
The marriage bed has been consummated & is evidenced by your children.

Yall share everything that makes a marriage except the understanding.

There lies the problem.

In your minds you two think of each other as unmarried & call each the names of friends , girlfriend/boyfriend, not the names of committed lovers, husband/wife. You have have been deceived.
This modern deception called "hooking up" denies you two the Rock which is the foundation of all things, especially the Godly commitment required of marriage the true "hook up".

Your marriage can be repaired but it must be rebuilt on The Foundation.

Both of you will have to realise this, find forgiveness & make it right.

You also say you hate fighting & do not want to expose your children to it. Then Stop! It takes two to fight, if you refuse, he can only gripe.

First & foremost examine your commitment to Christ. Are you truly saved? Do you truly Believe? Have you come to the foot of the Cross knowing & understanding your rebellion? Knowing your true need for Him? Has He lifted you up new & clean standing in front of the empty tomb, a new creature ready to serve Him? If so, serve Him, trust Him because God has called you to Peace.

Living together and having sex does not make you married. Sex outside marriage is sin. Paul says 'get married' not 'live together'  They are not married till they get married according to the laws of country they are living in, in obedience to the Bible.

So you're a saying that a certificate from the State is what ordains Holy Matrimony?
And that it is not a union between a man & a woman?

Paul says that we cant control our lusts that we are to marry. He does not say that we are to live togather and have sex anyway.
A certificate is merely the proof of the marriage ceremony, not the ceremony itself,

If you remember the story of the woman at the well, where the lady had been married 5 times, and was, when she met Jesus, living with another man, Jesus says, 'you have had 5 husbands, but the man you are now living with is not your husband'. Clearly, according to Jesus, they were not husband and wife just because they were living together.
It is only marriage that makes you husband and wife. There are no loopholes. We are told to obey the laws of our country.

Is it possible her 5th husband was still alive?

I agree with Paul about it being better to marry than burn.

You must also agree then the practice of the Kurdish Chieftains to deflower the Christian Armenian brides prior to the ceremony was acceptable since it was the law?

Before we get bogged down in legalism I'd suggest a reread of my post to try & understand what I'm saying.

Because; By all intents & purposes they are married. They live as they are married. They share a home as they are married. They have children as they are married. They are provoked to jealousy & grief due to the infidelity as they are married. So, for all intents & purposes they are.

But, one will also note I said: "This modern deception called "hooking up" denies you two the Rock which is the foundation of all things, especially the Godly commitment required of marriage"

Why I also said: "Your marriage can be repaired but it must be rebuilt on The Foundation."

and: "Both of you will have to realise this, find forgiveness & make it right."

Then I went onto attempt to give the keys to "make it right":
First & foremost examine your commitment to Christ. Are you truly saved? Do you truly Believe? Have you come to the foot of the Cross knowing & understanding your rebellion? Knowing your true need for Him? Has He lifted you up new & clean standing in front of the empty tomb, a new creature ready to serve Him? If so, serve Him, trust Him because God has called you to Peace.


I chose my words carefully & prayerfully for a purpose.

Jesus said you HAVE had five husbands. Not you have, but you have had. Past tense. Therefore she cant have still been married. The man she was living with was not her husband.

Yes they are living together AS IF they are married, but thery are NOT married.
Living in the same house and having sex, doesnt make you married. You are encouraging people to sin here.
A relative of mine recently left her live in boyfriend because he refused to marry her. They had been living togather for about 7 years She came back to God and she KNEW that God was wanting her to leave because it was wrong for her as a believer to be living with him while not being married.

People can live with several partners one after another, they cant be 'married' to all of them.

Yall still are not grasping what I am saying to them.

[fcadcock]

No, we do grasp it.  We just don't agree with it.

[chosenone]

No, we do grasp it.  We just don't agree with it.

yes we get what you are saying but what you are saying isnt Biblical.

[k-pappy]

I am not sure what happened in your past as I never read your previous post.  that being said, while it was wrong to cheat, now that you have come clean and turned away from such behavior, it should not be hanging over your head.

One quick question are you married?  If so, I would suggest counselling...go see your pastor together.

If not...then get out now.  The man is being emotionally abusive.  His threat to take away your girl is just that, a threat, and one designed to keep you submissive.  Given your situation, there is no way a judge will give him sole custody.  YOU will get custody and he will have to pay child support.

An abusive relationship is no kind of relationship to be in and he is using your past as an excuse to abuse you now.

[chosenone]

I am not sure what happened in your past as I never read your previous post.  that being said, while it was wrong to cheat, now that you have come clean and turned away from such behavior, it should not be hanging over your head.

One quick question are you married?  If so, I would suggest counselling...go see your pastor together.

If not...then get out now.  The man is being emotionally abusive.  His threat to take away your girl is just that, a threat, and one designed to keep you submissive.  Given your situation, there is no way a judge will give him sole custody.  YOU will get custody and he will have to pay child support.

An abusive relationship is no kind of relationship to be in and he is using your past as an excuse to abuse you now.

They arent married.

[TonkaTim]

No, we do grasp it.  We just don't agree with it.

yes we get what you are saying but what you are saying isnt Biblical.

Let me see if I can clarify then.
First let's deal with the concepts of marriage then I'll explain my greater point.

When folks think of marriage most think of Christian Marriage what we call Holy Matrimony which is a covenant between the husband, the wife, & God . Civil Marriage which is legal contract between two spouses & the State. Most Christians in the west combine Holy Matrimony with Civil Marriage as the only definition & acceptable form of marriage, & thus the only form of marriage. But it is not. The most ancient form of marriage is common-law marriage, which history shows going back to the most ancient times can also be called pagan marriage  - which is nothing more than hooking up & living as a couple, sharing a home, having children, etc.

A Marriage that is not in covenant with God, whether one has State approval or not, is pagan marriage. It is why so many marriagea fail, they are not built on The Foundation which is God. Which leads to my greater point in my original post.

I was pointing them to Christ.
To seek Christ.

For them to have any hope, it must be built on Christ.
For them to make it right, it must be built on Christ.

It is also why I used the phrase - "God has called you to Peace", I was pointing to 1 Corinthians 7 hoping others would expand on it & help lead them to Christ, Christian living, & the principles of Christian Marriage.

Instead we are bogged down with legalism & not the greater needs of this troubled pair.

[chosenone]

God cant bless a relationship with the couple are living together outside marriage. It isnt legalism to say what God says.
By the way, whether a couple are believers or not, as long as they are legally married they are married in Gods eyes.

[fcadcock]

marriage is marriage is marriage.  Unless it's not marriage, then it's not.  The OP is not married, therefore she isn't married...

[k-pappy]

Rather than judging the lady who is in trouble, should we not instead try to offer encouragement?  Advice, if possible.  And above all, prayer?

[chosenone]

Yes we have offered advise.

[apostle]

If you have been waiting five years for him to offer to marry you, you'll be better off if he doesn't.  You're holding out on a fantasy that he will give you something he doesn't have.  You have already received what he is willing to give you.  Your children deserve better, even if you don't think you do.  It's up to you whether they get it or not.