Did the disciple that Jesus loved not die? John 21:18-23

[lea]

ACTUALLY, "at that time" hasn't gotten here yet.

Oh yea, I forgot, Jerusalem and the temple weren't destroyed in those last days.
Boy, I must be blind to acknowledge something like that!

Get a hermeneutic because whatever you're saying here is BORING!

[robycop3]

Oh yea, I forgot, Jerusalem and the temple weren't destroyed in those last days.
Boy, I must be blind to acknowledge something like that!

Get a hermeneutic because whatever you're saying here is BORING!

You're blind to believe that was the great trib, AOD, etc.  If it was, Jesus is long-overdue as per Matt. 24:29-30.

[lea]

You're blind to believe that was the great trib, AOD, etc.  If it was, Jesus is long-overdue as per Matt. 24:29-30.

Yup, in your opinion, Jesus is long overdue!  Sad.

[robycop3]

Yup, in your opinion, Jesus is long overdue!  Sad.

  No, not in MY opinion, as I KNOW the great trib hasn't yet happened. YOU'RE the one stuck with an empty cup and no proof/evidence.

[lea]

  No, not in MY opinion, as I KNOW the great trib hasn't yet happened. YOU'RE the one stuck with an empty cup and no proof/evidence.

Oh I don't need to defend anything now, it wastes my time. You never answered the OP - you just criticize people.

I wish there was some way I could close this thread that I started.

[robycop3]

Oh I don't need to defend anything now, it wastes my time. You never answered the OP - you just criticize people.

I wish there was some way I could close this thread that I started.

  Yes, I DID answer the OP, but, for your benefit, here's the answer again: YES, HE DID DIE, same as the others. Jesus presented a hypothetical scenario to the other disciples - **IF** He caused that disciple to live til He returned, that's none of THEIR beeswax.

[lea]

  Yes, I DID answer the OP, but, for your benefit, here's the answer again: YES, HE DID DIE, same as the others. Jesus presented a hypothetical scenario to the other disciples - **IF** He caused that disciple to live til He returned, that's none of THEIR beeswax.

Jesus wouldn't have given that hypothetical and would have stated plainly another answer about John.

I do believe Jesus was careful with his words.

[robycop3]

Jesus wouldn't have given that hypothetical and would have stated plainly another answer about John.

I do believe Jesus was careful with his words.

  But jesus said "If". he didn't say "will". John's dead, & jesus hasn't yet returned, so there's the proof of what He said.

[3 Resurrections]

Okay, sticking to the post's subject here...

Robycop3, what you are proposing is that the word "IF" is ALWAYS used as a hypothetical case in scripture, meaning that in John 21:23, Christ never said that He intended to have the beloved disciple remain until He came.

That's not true.

The word "IF" is also used in scripture for cases when the statement is presuming a fact to be true.  According to Thayer's lexicon, the word for "IF" ("ean" - coming from the Greek "ei" and "an" combined) used in the subjunctive aorist "is used of things which the speaker or writer thinks WILL CERTAINLY TAKE PLACE, where "otan", (when, whenever) should have been used."

Here are some obvious examples of scripture texts that use the word "IF" in this manner of a presumed, certain outcome:

#1)  I John 2:1  -  "...And IF (ean) any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."  Is there any doubt whatever that any man will sin?  Is there any doubt whatever that we have an advocate with the Father in the person of Jesus Christ, our high priest?  Nothing hypothetical about these things at all.

#2)  Matthew 6:30  -  "Wherefore, IF (ei) God so clothe the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?"  Christ had just claimed that God certainly did clothe the lilies of the field with more glory than Solomon.  Since this was such a certainty on a lesser scale of importance, God would without doubt clothe His own children with their necessary garments, so they should not worry about their bodily needs being provided for.

#3)  Romans 8:31  -  "What shall we then say to these things? IF(ei) God be for us, who can be against us?"  The list of things God had done and would do for His children (delivering up His Son, predestinating , calling, justifying, glorifying)  was solid, certain proof that God was "for" His people.  That being the undeniable case, it mattered not who was "against" His people, since God was on their side.

#4)  John 12:32  -  "And I, IF (ean) I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."  Was there ever any doubt at all that Christ would be lifted up from the earth in the crucifixion?  No, this was an event foreordained by God Himself. 

#5)  Matthew 7:11 -  "IF (ei) ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?"  Christ was using the assured ability of even sinful men to give good things to their own children as an even greater assurance that God was willing to answer the prayers of His own children for good things.

#6)  "John 14:2-3  -  "...I go to prepare a place for you.  And IF (ean) I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."  Without doubt, Christ had just told the disciples that He was going, in order to prepare a place for them.  We might as well substitute the word "WHEN" in place of the word "IF" in this case, and all the rest of the texts above.

I could keep giving more examples of this type of usage for the word "IF", but hopefully this should suffice to prove that Christ was not just presenting a hypothetical case for the beloved disciple "remaining" until He came again.  He really intended for that disciple to remain on earth until His coming return in the very near future (i.e. AD 70).

[robycop3]

  Prets will try to make anything up attempting to make their case, but fail every time.

  The English word "if" usually means "introducing a conditional clause, on the condition or supposition that; in the event that...."

  And the context of Jesus' statement shows that was what He was doing. Jesus was telling His other disciples, in effect, that IF He chose to allow that other disciple to live til He returned, that was none of their concern.

  HE DID NOT SAY THAT DISCIPLE WOULD LIVE TIL HIS RETURN!

  Well, He hasn't yet returned, & the disciples are all gone now, so it's obvious what He meant.

[3 Resurrections]

Hey robycop3, you know that if a band hoping for a music award only knows how to play one song, they don't get very far.

I find your presentations across the board to be sadly lacking in any variety of scriptural basis for them.  Simply twanging one note repetitively of your personal opinion is not only ineffectual - it's boring.  Surely if this view of yours is solidly based on scripture on all fronts, then you could supply answers to the mountain of scripture evidence that has been listed to the contrary of your view. 

The mere fact that you are laboring so hard to discredit the evidence on this and other recent Preterist posts only shows that you recognize, in these days, that Preterist-based teaching is obviously making many minds reconsider what they have been taught on eschatology from earlier times. 

As I told you before, I absolutely love to write.  It gives me the greatest  joy and peace, especially when defending the honor and integrity of Christ's prophetic words.  And since I am younger than you, if God be willing, I will be a voice that will not cease speaking and writing these truths long after you are gone.