Should same sex marriage be approved in America?

[JimmyAk]

God does not support same sex marriage. Should this be approved in USA?

[Shulamite]

God does not support same sex marriage. Should this be approved in USA?

-no, same sex marriage was not done in Pagan Rome or Greece-we are on unchartered territory never been done before. It may have been tolerated, but never put on equal footing as male-female marriage.

[JohnDB]

No...


I think we should have continued to put homosexuals in jail and forbid them many services like we used to on account of moral turpitude.

[RoninJedi]

Absolutely not.

If same-sex marriage is okay, then why couldn't I then marry my brother?  My sister?  My mom?  My aunt?  My dog?  A goat?  A wolverine?  A venomous duck?  My truck?

You see the ridiculous can of worms this would open up?

[Red Baker]

No...


I think we should have continued to put homosexuals in jail and forbid them many services like we used to on account of moral turpitude.

Amen JohnDB~I did not know that you had that fire in your bones.  All godly kings in Israel always put the Sodomites out of Israel.  We should not be any less merciful.  Actually, we do not have the right to be less merciful~and it is an act of mercy toward the good people of the land, by standing against such wickedness.

RB

[DaveW]

No...
I think we should have continued to put homosexuals in jail and forbid them many services like we used to on account of moral turpitude.

Agreed.

[anx]

No...
I think we should have continued to put homosexuals in jail and forbid them many services like we used to on account of moral turpitude.

Agreed.

I disagree. We place people in jail for murder, stealing, etc. Things that cause direct harm to others physically or financially and are likely to do the same again. We don't put adulterers, pagans, liars, emotional abusers/manipulators, etc in prison.

The US is not a theocracy nor do I think there should be a christian theocracy.

I strongly feel that our attitude towards GLBT should be the same as towards adulterers. I have a hard time convincing myself that condemnation is an attitude I should take vs love towards a sinner. I have a hard time reading the new testiment and coming to the conclusion that Jesus would have condemned vs loved. Take the story of the woman at the well (John 4).

I see Jesus not being OK with the sin of the woman, but communicating in a loving tone to a sinner not a condoning one. Christians are often seen by the larger community in the US as full of condemnation and threats of hell. We do the faith a disservice when we take that attitude over one of love. Even when it is to an unrepentant sinner.

As to whether the US should allow gay marriage, I don't feel strongly either way. I would prefer it not to, but given we aren't a theocracy, it will probably happen. My own convictions are to treat and love people in that situation that way I think Jesus would have treated and loved them. I am certainly not a strong supporter of gay marriage, but I cannot convince myself to condemn someone for that.

[DaveW]

We don't put adulterers, pagans, liars, emotional abusers/manipulators, etc in prison.

I would be in favor of instituting the death penalty for adultery.

[anx]

We don't put adulterers, pagans, liars, emotional abusers/manipulators, etc in prison.

I would be in favor of instituting the death penalty for adultery.

I am strongly against a christian theocracy, and the historic examples of christian empires were disservices to the faith. Even the presidents we have now in the US all call themselves christian (both parties), and there is far less than a majority that see their actions as aligned with Christ.

Events like Salem witch trials, the break of the church of England from the catholic church so Henry VIII could annul his marriage (to marry another whom he would later execute and then remarry again), the medieval inquisitions, and the crusade are things non-Christians can so easily point to and say that the religion is a sham. One of the greatest arguments against Christianity that my atheist friends use is point to the wars of history and look how many were justified using religion on both sides. Despite the religions on both sides consider themselves peaceful and loving. Executing adulterers and GLBT would destroy any credibility religion has. Even the Jews for whom Deuteronomy 22:22 "If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel." was written do not kill adulterers in the current age.

My atheist friends have seen so very little love from Christians and so very much condemnation, hypocrisy, and judgement from Christians that it is no wonder they see faith as a sham. The words I heard recently were that an atheist thought the church was run by and full of money grubbers and pedophiles.

I recently spent time with a gay couple that my wife had met. I was uncomfortable because I hadn't spent time around gay people, and tried to model the best I could love that I have been shown by God. They remarked to my wife afterwords that they thought we were friendly and had assumed that since we were Christians that we judge them, and they were happy that we didn't do that. It was however profound for me that they assumed that since we were Christians that condemnation and judging and not friendly or love would be our response towards them.

Addition: John 13:34-35 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."
The exact opposite is way too often true. The atheists and glbt I know think religion is a sham because Christians in their life show them condemnation and not love. The number of times they have been told they are going to hell is often far greater than the number of times they have been shown love or kindness by a Christian.

[epiphanius]

I think we should have continued to put homosexuals in jail and forbid them many services like we used to on account of moral turpitude.

John,

What point in history are you talking about here? There were lots of laws against sodomy in this country in the past, but most of them were seldom enforced, and even more seldom enforced consistently. They mostly reflected people's natural abhorrence of such behavior, and served to reinforce the general perception that such behavior was *extremely* rare (which probably was the case in some areas, particularly rural areas in which the people had a strong faith and sense of community).

The problem, however, is that in a free country, there has to be a consensus on what behavior is or is not acceptable. Furthermore, where the penalty for an offense is particularly high, the public needs to be that much closer to unanimous in its attitude towards the offense. Clearly, the Church has lost a lot of ground in this area over the past 50 years, to the point where the younger generations are almost completely won over to the idea that homosexuality is a "valid alternate lifestyle." 

What I think lies ahead for us is that *inevitably*, some scientists will succeed in identifying some *real* problems arising as the result of children being raised in homosexual homes. Such scientists will be persecuted *mercilessly* (in the name of tolerance and acceptance, of course ), and it is up to the Church to give them as much support as possible, even though it will mean persecution for us, as well.

[Trumpeter]

God does not support same sex marriage. Should this be approved in USA?

This will be the outcome should this be approved.


Gen 19:24   Then the LORD rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from the LORD out of the heavens.

Gen 19:25   So He overthrew those cities, all the plain, all the inhabitants of the cities, and what grew on the ground.

[anx]

Genesis 18

32 Then he said, "May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?"

He answered, "For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it."

33 When the Lord had finished speaking with Abraham, he left, and Abraham returned home.

Genesis 19

1 The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 "My lords," he said, "please turn aside to your servant's house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning."

"No," they answered, "we will spend the night in the square."

3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."

As the story is told, there were not 10 righteous people in the city or the lord would have saved the city, and the town showed up to rape two angles. I think there are differences between Sodom and Gomorrah and the current situation. Approximately 75% of the US self identifies as christian (actual weekly attendance is between 20-40%), and rape is illegal and not something practiced widely by mobs.

[Alan]

Approximately 75% of the US self identifies as christian (actual weekly attendance is between 20-40%)

By ticking a box on a forum does not make it so, what luke warm Christians will adopt as okay in their minds is appalling to the rest of us.

[JohnDB]

I think we should have continued to put homosexuals in jail and forbid them many services like we used to on account of moral turpitude.

John,

What point in history are you talking about here? There were lots of laws against sodomy in this country in the past, but most of them were seldom enforced, and even more seldom enforced consistently. They mostly reflected people's natural abhorrence of such behavior, and served to reinforce the general perception that such behavior was *extremely* rare (which probably was the case in some areas, particularly rural areas in which the people had a strong faith and sense of community).

The problem, however, is that in a free country, there has to be a consensus on what behavior is or is not acceptable. Furthermore, where the penalty for an offense is particularly high, the public needs to be that much closer to unanimous in its attitude towards the offense. Clearly, the Church has lost a lot of ground in this area over the past 50 years, to the point where the younger generations are almost completely won over to the idea that homosexuality is a "valid alternate lifestyle." 

What I think lies ahead for us is that *inevitably*, some scientists will succeed in identifying some *real* problems arising as the result of children being raised in homosexual homes. Such scientists will be persecuted *mercilessly* (in the name of tolerance and acceptance, of course ), and it is up to the Church to give them as much support as possible, even though it will mean persecution for us, as well.

In the 1970's the practice of incarcerating homosexuals was regular and ongoing.  Granted in a few places like San Francisco and New Orleans (Where the military had dumped those convicted of homosexuality with dishonorable discharges) the cities found themselves overwhelmed and could not enforce the laws...but every other place in America did.


Life insurance was unavailable for them on account of moral terpitude.


Most of America believed that homosexuality was a self imposed curse. One that was cemented in place by God for moral terpitude and they didn't want to get involved with anyone like that.


And the book of Romans basically says that when people become so self centered and self focused that they cannot have selfless thoughts or behaviors that God gives up on them and turns them over to their own lusts and fears. (Darwin award these people...remove them from the planet)
In turn these people so identify with their sexual perversion they do not understand that we hate their sin and not the people who commit such sins no matter how often we scream this truth.
As a result they are indeed hurting others in this nation. They hold the lead demographic in most sexual crimes in America. They also hold the lead in domestic violence cases.


If we re-criminalized this behavior it would do much in cleaning up our society as a whole. I see more children these days in Chick fil A than McDonalds...simply because the homosexuals won't eat there and parents feel safer taking their small children there than they do McDonalds.

[JohnDB]

Oh yeah...one other little tidbit of information.


Shortly after America decriminalized homosexuality (but the military was still dishonorably discharging them) Mount St. Helen blew it's stack and made a huge mess in the North West.


I don't think it was just a coincidence.

[Alan]

Oh yeah...one other little tidbit of information.


Shortly after America decriminalized homosexuality (but the military was still dishonorably discharging them) Mount St. Helen blew it's stack and made a huge mess in the North West.


I don't think it was just a coincidence.

Very interesting John, I doubt it was a coincidence also....someone was angry.

[anx]

Oh yeah...one other little tidbit of information.


Shortly after America decriminalized homosexuality (but the military was still dishonorably discharging them) Mount St. Helen blew it's stack and made a huge mess in the North West.


I don't think it was just a coincidence.

I don't agree. I don't think it's our place to discern which natural disaster corresponds to which sin of whom. There are always natural disasters. I don't think it wise to point to politics or events and back claims or views based on a natural disaster.

[epiphanius]

Oh yeah...one other little tidbit of information.

Shortly after America decriminalized homosexuality (but the military was still dishonorably discharging them) Mount St. Helen blew it's stack and made a huge mess in the North West.

I don't think it was just a coincidence.

I don't agree. I don't think it's our place to discern which natural disaster corresponds to which sin of whom. There are always natural disasters. I don't think it wise to point to politics or events and back claims or views based on a natural disaster.

Anx,

I don't agree, either.  Our Lord made it very clear that even though disasters and tragedies (whether natural or man-made) are the result of sin, they are by no means indicators of whom God is displeased with:

Now there were some present at the same time who told him about the Galileans, whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices.
Jesus answered them, "Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered such things?
I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all perish in the same way.
Or those eighteen, on whom the tower in Siloam fell, and killed them; do you think that they were worse offenders than all the men who dwell in Jerusalem?
I tell you, no, but, unless you repent, you will all perish in the same way." (Luke 13:1-5)

Furthermore, this passage clearly indicates that we disciples are to concern ourselves first and foremost with our own repentance, as St. Paul also notes:

The saying is faithful and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. (1Tim. 1:15)

Now, some people interpret the latter passage as meaning Paul really thought he was the worst sinner of all time. I think he was really reiterating what the Master was saying in the former passage, namely that as disciples, our first duty is always to mind our own repentance before seeking to instruct others. This is all the more true if we have been called to have a role in guiding or instructing others, and even more so if called to be a prophetic voice against social evils.

[Shulamite]

I don't know where natural disasters fit into same se sexuality, but I do know how nature fits into condemning same sez sezuality.
God made us as sexual beings from the start..and it was good! God created us with parts and organs that work very well on their own, my heart beats fine on its own, and my lungs work well on their own. Our sexual parts do not work well on their own, but where created for sexual union between a man and a woman...they only function as designed with a partner of the opposite sex, and this design was designed to be carried out in maariage. To state otherwise is to call God very confused as he created us with parts that function in sexual union but created our minds otherwise. The penis was created for a husband to show affection and love to his wife, and the vagina was created to accomadate the husband with her love and affection. This still is not a big distinction from same sex sexuality as they to can show love and affection to each other-the big difference is that God made our sexual parts for love,affection and for making babies.
When sex is mostly a sterile act, the reasons for it become blurred we loose the discussion in regards for the reasons for marriage, the reason not to have sex outside of marriage and the reasons same sex marriage is wrong.
I was involved in the fashion industry as a model, and I had a probllem with my breast size being to small, so I got implants done at 18 years old, I had a one sided view of a breasts function, while they were made for my husbands enjoyment, my decision made it hard to breastfeed the little boy who resulted from that enjoyment.
God created a masterpiece in you and I !

[JohnDB]

It wasn't much of a natural disaster...


It was more of a warning I think than anything else.


and if we continue down this path we will end...God will not stand for a Christian Nation to be promoting homosexuality.

[anx]

For better or worse, the USA isn't a christian nation. It's much closer to majority rule than a theocracy. Threats of God's wrath isn't going to change policy decisions, and I still disagree with using threats of natural or other disaster in a conversation like this. I'm convinced that God sees homosexuality as a sin, but our role as humans is to love the sinner whatever the sin.

I'm not sure that there is anything Christians can do to stop these laws.

EDIT: the USA is based on a freedom of religion not morals and values of Christianity. The nation is built to be pluralist with choices based on majority.

[Cally]

God does not support same sex marriage. Should this be approved in USA?

-no, same sex marriage was not done in Pagan Rome or Greece-we are on unchartered territory never been done before. It may have been tolerated, but never put on equal footing as male-female marriage.

The reason we're in uncharted territory is also because of feminism. Our culture is in a place that suggests that there are no significant, innate differences between male and female. In other words, a male isn't designed to "act like a man" and a woman isn't designed to "act like a woman," so it's perfectly understandable that the next step for people with that kind of attitude is . . . "come to think of it, if male/female doesn't mean anything besides genitalia, and they can be sexually attracted somehow, what's wrong with same-sex marriage?" Perfectly reasonable. And many Christians who sold out to feminism can only retort dogmatically "but the bible says marriage is between a man and a woman" and the rest of the world judges that as an arbitrary rule--in other words, most of Christian culture has lost the ability to defend the necessity of heterosexual marriage with principle.

Think about this: feminism hit the western world more than the eastern world, and countries like Japan, China, India in the east . . . VERY unlikely that they'll legalize same-sex marriage.

Thank feminism for the push for same-sex marriage, folks.

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

If same-sex marriage is okay, then why couldn't I then marry my brother?  My sister?  My mom?  My aunt?  My dog?  A goat?  A wolverine?  A venomous duck?  My truck?

Whatsa matter with a marryin yer truck?

::adjustsoveralls::

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Let me fix that for you...

For better or worse, the USA isn't a christian nation. It's much closer to majority MOB rule than a theocracy.

[Alan]

God does not support same sex marriage. Should this be approved in USA?

-no, same sex marriage was not done in Pagan Rome or Greece-we are on unchartered territory never been done before. It may have been tolerated, but never put on equal footing as male-female marriage.

The reason we're in uncharted territory is also because of feminism. Our culture is in a place that suggests that there are no significant, innate differences between male and female. In other words, a male isn't designed to "act like a man" and a woman isn't designed to "act like a woman," so it's perfectly understandable that the next step for people with that kind of attitude is . . . "come to think of it, if male/female doesn't mean anything besides genitalia, and they can be sexually attracted somehow, what's wrong with same-sex marriage?" Perfectly reasonable. And many Christians who sold out to feminism can only retort dogmatically "but the bible says marriage is between a man and a woman" and the rest of the world judges that as an arbitrary rule--in other words, most of Christian culture has lost the ability to defend the necessity of heterosexual marriage with principle.

Think about this: feminism hit the western world more than the eastern world, and countries like Japan, China, India in the east . . . VERY unlikely that they'll legalize same-sex marriage.

Thank feminism for the push for same-sex marriage, folks.

Excellent post.

While the fact still remains that some of these eastern nations do not enjoy many of the civil liberties we here in the western world have been born with, I often think that our pro-liberal-everything agenda has done nothing but chopped away at the root of integrity.

[chosenone]

We don't put adulterers, pagans, liars, emotional abusers/manipulators, etc in prison.

I would be in favor of instituting the death penalty for adultery.

Wow, well that's 50% of the population gone then. One way to cut down the population.

[chosenone]

Oh yeah...one other little tidbit of information.


Shortly after America decriminalized homosexuality (but the military was still dishonorably discharging them) Mount St. Helen blew it's stack and made a huge mess in the North West.


I don't think it was just a coincidence.

I don't agree. I don't think it's our place to discern which natural disaster corresponds to which sin of whom. There are always natural disasters. I don't think it wise to point to politics or events and back claims or views based on a natural disaster.

I agree. We can always attribute natural disasters to something if we want to, but if that was the case then why hasn't God destroyed the countries where millions of babies are brutally murdered each year(surely far more serious than gay marriage of similar???) 

[chosenone]

God does not support same sex marriage. Should this be approved in USA?

-no, same sex marriage was not done in Pagan Rome or Greece-we are on unchartered territory never been done before. It may have been tolerated, but never put on equal footing as male-female marriage.

The reason we're in uncharted territory is also because of feminism. Our culture is in a place that suggests that there are no significant, innate differences between male and female. In other words, a male isn't designed to "act like a man" and a woman isn't designed to "act like a woman," so it's perfectly understandable that the next step for people with that kind of attitude is . . . "come to think of it, if male/female doesn't mean anything besides genitalia, and they can be sexually attracted somehow, what's wrong with same-sex marriage?" Perfectly reasonable. And many Christians who sold out to feminism can only retort dogmatically "but the bible says marriage is between a man and a woman" and the rest of the world judges that as an arbitrary rule--in other words, most of Christian culture has lost the ability to defend the necessity of heterosexual marriage with principle.

Think about this: feminism hit the western world more than the eastern world, and countries like Japan, China, India in the east . . . VERY unlikely that they'll legalize same-sex marriage.

Thank feminism for the push for same-sex marriage, folks.

Those countries have their own serious sins, one of them being widespread infanticide, and another being the degradation of women and children.

[Cally]

God does not support same sex marriage. Should this be approved in USA?

-no, same sex marriage was not done in Pagan Rome or Greece-we are on unchartered territory never been done before. It may have been tolerated, but never put on equal footing as male-female marriage.

The reason we're in uncharted territory is also because of feminism. Our culture is in a place that suggests that there are no significant, innate differences between male and female. In other words, a male isn't designed to "act like a man" and a woman isn't designed to "act like a woman," so it's perfectly understandable that the next step for people with that kind of attitude is . . . "come to think of it, if male/female doesn't mean anything besides genitalia, and they can be sexually attracted somehow, what's wrong with same-sex marriage?" Perfectly reasonable. And many Christians who sold out to feminism can only retort dogmatically "but the bible says marriage is between a man and a woman" and the rest of the world judges that as an arbitrary rule--in other words, most of Christian culture has lost the ability to defend the necessity of heterosexual marriage with principle.

Think about this: feminism hit the western world more than the eastern world, and countries like Japan, China, India in the east . . . VERY unlikely that they'll legalize same-sex marriage.

Thank feminism for the push for same-sex marriage, folks.

Those countries have their own serious sins, one of them being widespread infanticide, and another being the degradation of women and children.

There is already an incredible amount of "infanticide" here anyway in the form of abortions.

[JohnDB]

Cally, You are getting way off topic there.


But back in topic...

If a person is in favor of same sex marriage and yet all the while is opposed to incest they then are a first class bigot.

They very same reasoning for incest can apply to same sex marriage. Never mind what the SCOTUS rules. No logic can really apply to this situation.

[chosenone]

God does not support same sex marriage. Should this be approved in USA?

-no, same sex marriage was not done in Pagan Rome or Greece-we are on unchartered territory never been done before. It may have been tolerated, but never put on equal footing as male-female marriage.

The reason we're in uncharted territory is also because of feminism. Our culture is in a place that suggests that there are no significant, innate differences between male and female. In other words, a male isn't designed to "act like a man" and a woman isn't designed to "act like a woman," so it's perfectly understandable that the next step for people with that kind of attitude is . . . "come to think of it, if male/female doesn't mean anything besides genitalia, and they can be sexually attracted somehow, what's wrong with same-sex marriage?" Perfectly reasonable. And many Christians who sold out to feminism can only retort dogmatically "but the bible says marriage is between a man and a woman" and the rest of the world judges that as an arbitrary rule--in other words, most of Christian culture has lost the ability to defend the necessity of heterosexual marriage with principle.

Think about this: feminism hit the western world more than the eastern world, and countries like Japan, China, India in the east . . . VERY unlikely that they'll legalize same-sex marriage.

Thank feminism for the push for same-sex marriage, folks.

Those countries have their own serious sins, one of them being widespread infanticide, and another being the degradation of women and children.

There is already an incredible amount of "infanticide" here anyway in the form of abortions.

Yes and in other countries such as some of those  you mention, they kill children after birth as well, mainly the girls.

[Cally]

God does not support same sex marriage. Should this be approved in USA?

-no, same sex marriage was not done in Pagan Rome or Greece-we are on unchartered territory never been done before. It may have been tolerated, but never put on equal footing as male-female marriage.

The reason we're in uncharted territory is also because of feminism. Our culture is in a place that suggests that there are no significant, innate differences between male and female. In other words, a male isn't designed to "act like a man" and a woman isn't designed to "act like a woman," so it's perfectly understandable that the next step for people with that kind of attitude is . . . "come to think of it, if male/female doesn't mean anything besides genitalia, and they can be sexually attracted somehow, what's wrong with same-sex marriage?" Perfectly reasonable. And many Christians who sold out to feminism can only retort dogmatically "but the bible says marriage is between a man and a woman" and the rest of the world judges that as an arbitrary rule--in other words, most of Christian culture has lost the ability to defend the necessity of heterosexual marriage with principle.

Think about this: feminism hit the western world more than the eastern world, and countries like Japan, China, India in the east . . . VERY unlikely that they'll legalize same-sex marriage.

Thank feminism for the push for same-sex marriage, folks.

Those countries have their own serious sins, one of them being widespread infanticide, and another being the degradation of women and children.

There is already an incredible amount of "infanticide" here anyway in the form of abortions.

Yes and in other countries such as some of those  you mention, they kill children after birth as well, mainly the girls.

Well I'm already in trouble with John for getting "off topic" although I thought my first post was extremely relevant to the subject. What I've heard about that in China is definitely terrible, although in the modern west I find it clear that a man's life does not have as much value as a woman's: women's rights sought "equal opportunity" but only wanted women where there is prestige--long story short, hardly anyone cares about the fact that the overwhelming majority of work-related deaths are men (again, even in this age of so-called "equality") and the large majority of homeless are also men. "Violence against women act" passes because, comparatively, violence against men is okay, or at least not nearly as important. Examples go on and on, really, and that's a serious sin.

Okay--on-topic comment: no, same-sex marriage should not be approved in America. And again, I really believe that the root of the problem lies in perception of gender-versus-sex. Modern attitudes that oppose concepts of masculinity and femininity are responsible for the reason many people simply don't see anything wrong with same-sex marriage--that's the root of the problem, and until more people take interest in striking at that they'll be pretty defenseless in terms of backing up the claim that it's morally wrong.