Need Biblical advice about sex before marriage

[HeyNow]

I have been a Christian my whole life, and my greatest weakness has always been sexual sin.  I discovered pornography when I was 12.  And have lusted for women even before then.  I didn't discover masturbation until I was 17, but ever since it has been an on-going struggle.  I managed to stay a virgin for a long time somehow, but have fooled around with girls since I was 18, and finally when I was 28 I lost my virginity to a girl a barely knew.  I immediately regretted it and felt a deep shame and confessed my sin to God.  I always confessed my sins as I knew they were sins, but somehow I've always gone back to my sin.

Since then I've started dating a Christian girl, and after about 8 months into our relationship we started having sex. At first we were both guilty about it as we've always been taught sex before marriage is wrong.  But we are both adults, living on our own, with no accountability (We live in a foreign country).  We've started sleeping together on a regular basis, and she has even moved in with me.  We are living together but are not married in the most literal sense of the word.

We've gotten to the point where we no longer feel guilty about sleeping with each other.  It seems a natural and right way to express our love for each other (we've been together for about 2 years now), and we both plan to get married at some point in the future.  It's not a question of "if" but of "when" it will happen.  It's just that right now, we are not in a position to get married (mainly due to cultural obligations).

My question is this.  What does the Bible really say about sex before marriage?  I've searched through it myself and can find nothing that directly talks about it.  It often warns against "sexual immorality", but no one seems to agree on what that means.  Is it sexual immoral to sleep with the girl you love and who you will be with the rest of your life?  And if the Bible does explicitly state that sex before marriage is wrong, what is the definition of marriage?  Every culture in the world has different marriage customs.  Some people groups have the couple simply move in together, and they are considered married.  The marriage customs of the Jews was very different than that of the early non-Jewish Christians, and our marriage customs today are even more different still.

I know this is the girl God has chosen for me, as I have sought his will on a relationship with her.  There have been several times when we've had a massive argument, where I asked God if she wasn't the one for me, for him to make it clear and to end our relationship.  Yet we've always stayed together.  There have been times when I've laid next to her after sex and prayed to God asking him if this is wrong for him to please tell me.  Yet no feelings of guilt arise, only those of love for the beautiful woman next to me.

Part of me wonders if I have "seared" my conscience to the point where I can no longer recognize it as sin.  Because traditional Christian teaching always teaches that sex before marriage is a sin. 

I'm not looking for justification for what I'm doing.  I truly want to know what the Bible says about sex before marriage.  And how we as modern day Christians are to interpret just what marriage is.  In the eyes of my girlfriend and I, we are already married. 

[HeyNow]

One thing I forgot to add.  Since we have started sleeping together, I've stopped viewing pornography and masturbating.  I just haven't felt the overpower urge to do it anymore. 

Please remember, I'm not looking for Christianese words of advice.  I'm looking for actual Biblical support for your answers.  I've read through other posts on this forum.  And some people say things like "Of course masturbation is wrong.  The Bible says all sexual impurity is wrong."  But they don't say why they view masturbation as sexual impure.  I'm pretty sure the Bible only says lusting is wrong (using porn to masturbate to), not the act of releasing semen from your body. 

[k-pappy]

The Bible is very clear on sex and marriage.  Sex is for marriage.  Read 1 Cor 7 to start.

I will wait for your response on that before I post more.

[DaveW]

Of course you are not going to feel an overpowering urge to masturbate if you are banging your gf on a regular basis. That is giving you the sexual releases you were previously getting thru "M." And who needs porn if you have the real thing in bed with you? 


The main problem is you are committing fornication (prohibited in the bible) which is sinful. There are many scriptures that say that.  Just go to http://www.biblegateway.com  and search for 'virgin' or 'fornication.' You will have all the scriptures you want.

And by doing that you are making someone else partake in your sin.

[HeyNow]

The Bible is very clear on sex and marriage.  Sex is for marriage.  Read 1 Cor 7 to start.

I will wait for your response on that before I post more.

I read 1 Corinthians 7, and it doesn't answer any of the questions I have asked in this thread.  It talks about whether or not a man should marry and take a wife.  It sounds to me like he is admonishing the church because there was so much sexual promiscuity going on.  People were sleeping with whoever they wanted, and possibly multiple partners.  Paul's advice to those who cannot control themselves is to get married, because it's better to have sex with your partner than it is to run around having sex with whoever.

Dave said I am committing fornication, but I have always thought of fornication as sleeping with someone who is not your partner or sleeping around simply for the pleasure of it.  IE going out and hooking up casually with friends and strangers.

I know I might sound defensive, but I really am looking for the right answer.  If I have interpreted the text wrong please tell me. 

[OldDad]

Fornication has an actual definition: Sexual intercourse between partners who are not married to each other.

That ought to be pretty clear.

[HeyNow]

Ok, assuming fornication and sexual immorality = sex before marriage.  What then is the standard for "marriage"?  Are two people considered married when they're holding a certificate?  After the wedding ceremony?  Once they've consummated their marriage?  What about all the countries and tribal groups around the world that don't have wedding ceremonies or government issued certificates?  Does God really care weather you have a piece of paper that says you're married or not?  What does one have to do to be married in His eyes?  Could my fiance (I popped the question last night, and she said yes) and I get down on our knees and declare before God that we are married?

[OldDad]

You obey the law of the land in which you live, and fulfill the state's obligation. Then you are married in everyone's eyes, including, presumably. God's.

Now, either you are a troll, and not really interested in what the "right" answers are, or you have some other reason for striving so hard to justify your immorality.

Which is it?

[HeyNow]

I'm not striving to justify anything.  I'm asking for advice and guidance.  These are the types of questions that I've always struggled with and no one seems to be able to answer for.  Your judgmental attitude is not appreciated, but I suppose you can answer to God for turning people away from the truth when they're seeking it.

As a side note, thanks to those who have answered my questions via PM.  The forum won't let me reply to you, but your responses have been much more appreciated than the Pharisees on here.

[JohnDB]

You mean answers you wish to hear...

Look, your actions and lifestyle speaks volumes to all around you.  You have lost all credibility with any kind of witnessing to those around you.  They would think you a hypocrite at the moment.

We don't license people to sin on this forum...never have or will.

[DaveW]

Ok, assuming fornication and sexual immorality = sex before marriage.  What then is the standard for "marriage"?  Are two people considered married when they're holding a certificate?  After the wedding ceremony?  Once they've consummated their marriage?  What about all the countries and tribal groups around the world that don't have wedding ceremonies or government issued certificates?  Does God really care weather you have a piece of paper that says you're married or not?  What does one have to do to be married in His eyes?  Could my fiance (I popped the question last night, and she said yes) and I get down on our knees and declare before God that we are married?

You are making the mistake of thinking that God has some single over-arching standard for what constitutes "marriage." He does not as far as we know.  The bible contains no definition. It just assumes the institution and that it is a covenant based relationship that is life-long.

There are plenty of places in the bible that tell us to obey the laws of the land insofar as they do not stand in the way of our worship of HIM.  So that means that the standards of what constitute marriage can be defined by what ever culture you live in. Here in the US it requires a license and vows being said before witnesses. The witnesses sign the form and it is filed with the state.  If you live in some primitive tribal culture you might have to hit the woman over the head with a club and drag her back to your tent.  Either way, you are equally married in God's eyes.

So unless you want to move to a very primitive place, you need to follow the laws and customs of where you live NOW to be properly married.

BTW - CONGATS on being engaged!!!

[DaveW]

I'm not striving to justify anything.  I'm asking for advice and guidance.  These are the types of questions that I've always struggled with and no one seems to be able to answer for.  Your judgmental attitude is not appreciated, but I suppose you can answer to God for turning people away from the truth when they're seeking it.

As a side note, thanks to those who have answered my questions via PM.  The forum won't let me reply to you, but your responses have been much more appreciated than the Pharisees on here.

Yeah - there is an old saying that the church is the only army that shoots its own wounded. Sorry you are getting a taste of that.

There is also an attitude that someone who has spent any time in church should know all (or most of) the answers; so any questions about certain issues (and especially sexual issues) appear to be either justifying sin or just messing with people for some prurient amusement.  The reason being is that most of the people who do ask these questions are NOT serious.

I am assuming you ARE serious.

[OldDad]

I'm not striving to justify anything.  I'm asking for advice and guidance.  These are the types of questions that I've always struggled with and no one seems to be able to answer for.  Your judgmental attitude is not appreciated, but I suppose you can answer to God for turning people away from the truth when they're seeking it.

As a side note, thanks to those who have answered my questions via PM.  The forum won't let me reply to you, but your responses have been much more appreciated than the Pharisees on here.

LOL - you openly admit your participation in sexual immorality, even while you seek to be able to define it down to meaninglessness... You scoff at the suggestion of sexual activity being confined to the marriage relationship by claiming "married" has no REAL meaning anyway...

And I'M the "Pharisee"? I'm "shooting the wounded"? 

It's not judgmental to point out the truth of the Scriptures.

SMH...

[AVZ]

It's just that right now, we are not in a position to get married (mainly due to cultural obligations).

Should I assume those "cultural obligations" are agreeable with your present position?

[DaveW]

Yes.  Please explain what the "cultural obligations" are.

[jakew]

Sex was designed by God to be the height of bonding between two people. There is no more intimate experience for two human beings on Earth.

By having sex before wooing your girlfriend in total celibacy, for year(s), then marrying her- and discovering her body on your wedding night- you are throwing all of that away. Unfortunately, she gave you the desert before you manned up and made the dinner. You have known her sexually, and she has known you in the same way.

Your only hope of recovering what God has for you is to STOP looking at porn, STOP having sex with her (Stop seeing her if that is what it takes.) and take a step back. Pray on your knees and beg God to save what might be left of your relationship with her.

Do things right the next time. Date, woo, get to know- and don't even kiss her. That's right! Not even a kiss. No making out, no time alone where you can be tempted. Otherwise you are not serious- and you will never be happy with your mate- if you have sex with her even once before getting to know her, and her heart- before marriage.

Are you man enough to keep it zipped up in your pants for a year, or two, or more, while you get to know the woman of your dreams?

[John 8:32]

Sex is more than just a pysical union for married couples.  It pictures something much deeper...

Eph 5:31  For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32  This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Eph 5:33  Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.