Conflict of religion in relationship.

[jptx]

Hello everyone, new member & first post. Normally I would make an introductory post when joining a new site but doubt I will be very active here beyond this post, anyways.

Me and my girlfriend have been dating about 9 months now & are very happy together however one issue seems to keep creeping up & creeped up again last night.

She is devout christian, I however am proud atheist. I am quite fine with her religious choice, it does not bother me but the feeling is not mutual. when we first met she told me she wanted a christian man.

Everything else about the relationship is going great but this one item. Any suggestions on how I can approach this topic where we can find mutual ground & live happily together? Thanks.

[Catholica]

Hello everyone, new member & first post. Normally I would make an introductory post when joining a new site but doubt I will be very active here beyond this post, anyways.

Me and my girlfriend have been dating about 9 months now & are very happy together however one issue seems to keep creeping up & creeped up again last night.

She is devout christian, I however am proud atheist. I am quite fine with her religious choice, it does not bother me but the feeling is not mutual. when we first met she told me she wanted a christian man.

Everything else about the relationship is going great but this one item. Any suggestions on how I can approach this topic where we can find mutual ground & live happily together? Thanks.

Even if you were to find mutual ground, there is no way that you are going to live happily together.  There will be tension for your whole life long.  Because as a married couple, one of our primary ends of that vocation is to get your spouse to heaven.  And the other is the raising of children in the faith.  And even if you were to agree to raise your kids Christian, you as the husband are the primary spiritual influence, and there will then be tension because I'm sure she wants to raise christian children but they will be more influenced by you, and that would be a problem in your marriage.  Plus if she is a devout person God will be very important in all parts of her life and that will create a chasm between the two of you that will widen once the initial attraction has worn off.

If you truly love this woman, and want to spend your whole life with her, the best way to do that would to enter into marriage fundamentally united at the core of faith.  Otherwise it is almost guaranteed not to last, no matter who the people are (I say that meaning no knock against either of you personally).  It would be best for you to at least listen and consider the Christian faith very earnestly with her before you go into any life-long relationship.

[DaveW]

As a Christian, she is not allowed to marry anyone but another christian.  So if she were to marry you, she would be in violation of her own faith.  (and you DO know that sex outside marriage is also forbidden, right?)

If you really want a life with this woman - you have only one option: repent and become a christian yourself.

If you truly seek Him - God will find a way to let you know He is there.

[chapmic]

Hey jptx, I'm glad you came and asked your question respectfully. It is a good you are looking for a way to be together but biblically she is not supposed to get married to an unbeliever. If you were already married she would not be required to divorce you. The thing is as a Christian Jesus is our master and eventually and maybe often she would have to choose what Jesus would want and what you want. This will be very conflicting to her and if she did what you chose she may end up resenting you. The way you can mutually live happy together is to become a Christian. I hope you are interested in becoming a Christian but it would not work if you become a Christian because you love her, we must become a Christian because we love Jesus. This is prolly what you don't want to here but I hope I respectfully answered your question and I will be praying for both of you.

[Carey]

If you remain an atheist, you cannot, there is no mutual ground.  Your opposing views may not seem a big deal now, but the problems and heartache will steadily increase as your relationship progresses.

All the advice she is receiving from her Christian friends and family will be to discontinue this relationship.  The Bible addresses this issue specifically.

I understand from your perspective this seems unwarranted, you can easily move forward with the relationship given your beliefs, and you are probably right.  But you must put yourself in her shoes.  Her love for you can only cause heartache in the long run, she believes that she has a place in heaven, you do not.  Imagine how that makes her feel today, and even more so as her love for you grows.

If you plan on having children this complicates things even further.

Further, I am not sure how you feel about Christianity, but many atheists, not all, think Christianity is a ridiculous notion, adhered to by those of inferior mind.  If this in any way parallels your thoughts, even if you keep such thoughts hidden, they will impact the respect you have for her, which in turn will impact your marriage.

I know women in my church that face this issue, and it saddens me to see the turmoil, and heartache they must endure.

This is probably not what you were hoping to hear, sorry.

[jptx]

Even if you were to find mutual ground, there is no way that you are going to live happily together.  There will be tension for your whole life long.  Because as a married couple, one of our primary ends of that vocation is to get your spouse to heaven.  And the other is the raising of children in the faith.  And even if you were to agree to raise your kids Christian, you as the husband are the primary spiritual influence, and there will then be tension because I'm sure she wants to raise christian children but they will be more influenced by you, and that would be a problem in your marriage.  Plus if she is a devout person God will be very important in all parts of her life and that will create a chasm between the two of you that will widen once the initial attraction has worn off.

If you truly love this woman, and want to spend your whole life with her, the best way to do that would to enter into marriage fundamentally united at the core of faith.  Otherwise it is almost guaranteed not to last, no matter who the people are (I say that meaning no knock against either of you personally).  It would be best for you to at least listen and consider the Christian faith very earnestly with her before you go into any life-long relationship.

We have discussed the issue of raising children & faith, we both agree it would be the childs choice what spiritual path to follow. Be that christian, buddhism, pagan, muslim, atheist or other. We would give them all options & allow them to choose and support their choice.

How do we become united at the core of faith? I have heard her side & completely respect her choice, but it is not for me. I can no more worship any god than she could turn her back upon hers.

I recognize her faith & how important it is to her but how is it anyone's business but our own whom we choose to be with? Why would the almighty give us freewill to make these choices yet claim a relationship between two loving consenting adults is wrong?

If you really want a life with this woman - you have only one option: repent and become a christian yourself.

If you truly seek Him - God will find a way to let you know He is there.

For me to repent and become a christian is an impossibility, it would be the same as me asking you to turn your back on your god. Best case scenario, I could pay the christian faith lip service but I would never be a believer

.

Hey jptx, I'm glad you came and asked your question respectfully. It is a good you are looking for a way to be together but biblically she is not supposed to get married to an unbeliever. If you were already married she would not be required to divorce you. The thing is as a Christian Jesus is our master and eventually and maybe often she would have to choose what Jesus would want and what you want. This will be very conflicting to her and if she did what you chose she may end up resenting you. The way you can mutually live happy together is to become a Christian. I hope you are interested in becoming a Christian but it would not work if you become a Christian because you love her, we must become a Christian because we love Jesus. This is prolly what you don't want to here but I hope I respectfully answered your question and I will be praying for both of you.

Would the christian jesus truly object to a non-believer? From my understanding he was a pretty cool guy & very loving. Even of the most vile of men. I believe it was a thief whom dined at his side in the kingdom of heaven was it not?

Is there any passages that speak to couples of varying faith not being allowed to live together? The only one I could find is 2 cor 6:14 Which reads "Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?"(KJV)

I interpret this in a different way than I guess most would. Yoke is a wooden device used to hook 2 ox together. To me its saying do not be joined with someone who does not share your same goals. We have the same goals, we are compatible on all things. As a couple we both strive for the same prosperity & life together. I do not consider myself wicked nor dark. We both have a strong moral center of righteousness. Why shall we not be yoked together?

Mahalo.

[DaveW]

For me to repent and become a christian is an impossibility, it would be the same as me asking you to turn your back on your god. Best case scenario, I could pay the christian faith lip service but I would never be a believer

That is your choice.  It is not something beyond your control.  Like I said - if you truly seek Him, He will find a way to change your perspective and understanding. It does not have to be lip service.

So it is truly NOT impossible. The ball is in your court.

[chosenone]

If she is a devout Christian then she shouldnt going out with an athiest let alone be considering marriage. As for letting the children decide, a devout Christian would never think that or say that. I think she needs to go and see her pastor asap and I am surprised that some of her Christian friends havent talked to her about this already. She will be making a massive mistake if she goes ahead. God is quite clear that Christians must not marry non Christians.  I hope that you love her enough to be honest with her and tell her what we have said here. Its a disaster in the making. I know people who have married non believers and it has never worked.  They have all regretted it and most have ended in divorce.  You are heading in totally different directions and she will need to chose you or God in the end.

[Catholica]

Even if you were to find mutual ground, there is no way that you are going to live happily together.  There will be tension for your whole life long.  Because as a married couple, one of our primary ends of that vocation is to get your spouse to heaven.  And the other is the raising of children in the faith.  And even if you were to agree to raise your kids Christian, you as the husband are the primary spiritual influence, and there will then be tension because I'm sure she wants to raise christian children but they will be more influenced by you, and that would be a problem in your marriage.  Plus if she is a devout person God will be very important in all parts of her life and that will create a chasm between the two of you that will widen once the initial attraction has worn off.

If you truly love this woman, and want to spend your whole life with her, the best way to do that would to enter into marriage fundamentally united at the core of faith.  Otherwise it is almost guaranteed not to last, no matter who the people are (I say that meaning no knock against either of you personally).  It would be best for you to at least listen and consider the Christian faith very earnestly with her before you go into any life-long relationship.

We have discussed the issue of raising children & faith, we both agree it would be the childs choice what spiritual path to follow. Be that christian, buddhism, pagan, muslim, atheist or other. We would give them all options & allow them to choose and support their choice.

How do we become united at the core of faith? I have heard her side & completely respect her choice, but it is not for me. I can no more worship any god than she could turn her back upon hers.

I recognize her faith & how important it is to her but how is it anyone's business but our own whom we choose to be with? Why would the almighty give us freewill to make these choices yet claim a relationship between two loving consenting adults is wrong?

God gives you freewill because he loves you.  He gives you that freewill so that you can freely choose to love him back and love your neighbor as well.  Because love without freedom is not love.

And with freewill comes the ability to make good and bad decisions.  And God respects decisions of people, even bad ones.  But since he wants what is best for you so He revealed himself to us in part so that we could know what is the best for us. 

There are two ways he revealed himself to us.  One is through creation.  For example we can see in the creation of our bodies that our sexual parts were meant to be complementary.  That is, we know that their proper ordered use is according to nature, which would exclude two "loving consenting adults" of the same sex from entering into a sexual relationship and know that it is according to His order.

The other way He revealed himself to us is supernaturally through both his prophets and through Jesus and His Church.  Over and above the natural law, we are given the guidance to know what is best for us that is not revealed by the natural law.

But even if you believe that all that I said above is mumbo-jumbo, which you probably do, you can imagine rationally why two people who are, at the core of their being (which is their "faith" whether it be atheist or Christian or whatever) that there is ALWAYS going to be tension there of the highest degree.  It is one thing to prefer cats vs. dogs, it's another thing for one person to believe in God and have that be a foundation in their life and the other to basically believe that God is some kind of superstition or fairy tale.

So what is best for the couple, who wants to live a happy life, is to be united at their core.  And that is what I would say God wants for you and your wife.  But He also gave us this faith so that we could be guided into true happiness, and that is what the Christian faith gives us.  So clearly that unity would not be in the form of her becoming atheist, as that would not work for God either.

I also don't think your wife will be truly happy giving that sort of license to your children to "believe whatever they desire".  She will realize it in her soul that she is not doing her duty as a parent if she doesn't raise them to know God in the way that He has revealed himself to us.  She probably likes you a lot and is willing to be flexible, but (even without knowing her) I can say with a reasonable certainty that it will be a source of tension and sadness for her later on.

[jptx]

What about numbers 12:1. Moses wished to marry a cushite & god had no objections.

[DaveW]

What about numbers 12:1. Moses wished to marry a cushite & god had no objections.

Actually he had ALREADY married her. Here is how they met from Exodus 2:

16 Now the priest of Midian had seven daughters; and they came to draw water and filled the troughs to water their father's flock.
17 Then the shepherds came and drove them away, but Moses stood up and helped them and watered their flock.
18 When they came to Reuel their father, he said, "Why have you come back so soon today?"
19 So they said, "An Egyptian delivered us from the hand of the shepherds, and what is more, he even drew the water for us and watered the flock."
20 He said to his daughters, "Where is he then? Why is it that you have left the man behind? Invite him to have something to eat."
21 Moses was willing to dwell with the man, and he gave his daughter Zipporah to Moses.

She was the daughter of a priest.  She was a believer. The objection raised by Moses' siblings was ethnic, not religious.

[MeMyself]

We have discussed the issue of raising children & faith, we both agree it would be the childs choice what spiritual path to follow. Be that christian, buddhism, pagan, muslim, atheist or other. We would give them all options & allow them to choose and support their choice.

This kind of thought process from a "devout" Christian makes me scratch my head and wonder at the reality of their devout beliefs.

IMO a truly devout follower of Christ will STRIVE to teach their children the Truth, which is being a follower of Christ, not this many ways to God idea or that atheism is acceptable.

[jptx]

Perhaps devout was a poor choice of words. She is a believer of the christian faith.

[Rella]

We have discussed the issue of raising children & faith, we both agree it would be the childs choice what spiritual path to follow. Be that christian, buddhism, pagan, muslim, atheist or other. We would give them all options & allow them to choose and support their choice.

How do we become united at the core of faith? I have heard her side & completely respect her choice, but it is not for me. I can no more worship any god than she could turn her back upon hers.

I recognize her faith & how important it is to her but how is it anyone's business but our own whom we choose to be with? Why would the almighty give us freewill to make these choices yet claim a relationship between two loving consenting adults is wrong?

For me to repent and become a christian is an impossibility, it would be the same as me asking you to turn your back on your god. Best case scenario, I could pay the christian faith lip service but I would never be a believer

Would the christian jesus truly object to a non-believer? From my understanding he was a pretty cool guy & very loving. Even of the most vile of men. I believe it was a thief whom dined at his side in the kingdom of heaven was it not?

Is there any passages that speak to couples of varying faith not being allowed to live together? The only one I could find is 2 cor 6:14 Which reads "Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?"(KJV)

I interpret this in a different way than I guess most would. Yoke is a wooden device used to hook 2 ox together. To me its saying do not be joined with someone who does not share your same goals. We have the same goals, we are compatible on all things. As a couple we both strive for the same prosperity & life together. I do not consider myself wicked nor dark. We both have a strong moral center of righteousness. Why shall we not be yoked together?

Mahalo.

This statement of yours is the problem.

We have discussed the issue of raising children & faith, we both agree it would be the childs choice what spiritual path to follow. Be that christian, buddhism, pagan, muslim, atheist or other. We would give them all options & allow them to choose and support their choice.

She is obviously very in love with you because NO Christian couple would ever agree to allowa child to follow its own spiritual path.

You seem to have read some of Gods words in the Bible and here is another....

Proverbs 22:6 (KJV) states

6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

This means the parents must guide and instruct the child.

And just a little education... The book of Proverbs is in the Old Testament that
was before the birth of Jesus and therefore not specifically classified as Christian.

Now, I will tell you I have had family and friends marry outside of their faith and the
end result has always been they end up mostly disbelieving.

You may not find this a problem with your beliefs, but you should.

[MeMyself]

Perhaps devout was a poor choice of words. She is a believer of the christian faith.

And as a true believer, she will (or should) have a deep desire for her children to know Truth and not to toy with false religions and atheism. 

[DaveW]

Perhaps devout was a poor choice of words. She is a believer of the christian faith.

And as a true believer, she will (or should) have a deep desire for her children to know Truth and not to toy with false religions and atheism.

Right.  WHo in their right mind would leave the option open for their kids to jump off a cliff into a raging fire? 

The ONLY way to escape that fire for you, your kids, anyone; is devout belief in Jesus.

[jptx]

Well, I asked and thus an answer was received. Albeit, not the one I was hoping/expecting.

Regardless, my significant other has read this thread. We have discussed it & are still continuing our relationship.

As I noted in my original posting I would not be active on this forum & do not expect a return. Thus as my final parting words I cannot offer any better than a quotation attributed to a great philosopher Marcus Aurelius.

[chosenone]

Thankfully its Gods words that matter and not a mere mans.  No matter how good we are or arent, we all need Jesus to be forgiven and saved.  IF your partner is a real believer she will hopefully obey God, if she doesn't she will regret it like many so others who have gone their own way and not Gods, and put their partner ahead of Him. He says thing for a reason, and that is for our own good.  I cant tell you the number of people I have spoken to who have deeply regretted marrying a non believer, and if she was actually serious about being a Christian, she wouldnt even consider it.   

[MeMyself]

Thankfully its Gods words that matter and not a mere mans.  No matter how good we are or arent, we all need Jesus to be forgiven and saved.  IF your partner is a real believer she will hopefully obey God, if she doesn't she will regret it like many so others who have gone their own way and not Gods, and put their partner ahead of Him. He says thing for a reason, and that is for our own good.  I cant tell you the number of people I have spoken to who have deeply regretted marrying a non believer, and if she was actually serious about being a Christian, she wouldnt even consider it.

Let alone considering the thought of letting her children decide what religion of any to be...I can't fathom a true believer NOT wanting to teach their children about Christ.

[chosenone]

I agree memyself, after all no one wants their children to go to hell do they??? Our children need 2 strong believing parents not one on one side and one on the other. If this lady is actually a believer, she will have to decide whether to follow God or go her own way. I know which I would choose. Light and darkness cant mix.