Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes.

[Believer]

There is a misconception in the church-at-large, and in this thread.  It is assumed that all of the people Jesus healed were miraculously *poofed* back to pristine health.  This is not accurate.

John 5:8-9. 8 Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk. 9And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked. And poof up and walked. This is accurate.

Mark 10:52.  And Jesus said unto him, Go thy way; thy faith hath made thee whole. And immediately he received his sight, and followed Jesus in the way. And poof up and waled away. This is accurate.

There are many more. But people dont seem to read or except them.
Can you give some scripture, saying it took a long time etc?

There are actually a few different words used of the healings that Jesus performed, and they indicate different things happening.

Really, they do do they? How about you quote all of them and your soarse. Because your soarse is different to mine.


I use this one and many others. Interlinear Scripture Analizer.   http://www.scripture4all.org/

And could you just seperate which healing word you are using to work this out IE who said it and in what langauge latin Greek Hewbrew?

The story of the Centurion's servant (Matthew 8) is instructive.

Once the Centurion tells Jesus of the servant's plight (v.5), Jesus announces that He will travel to the Centurion's home to heal (therapeuo) the servant (v.7).

This word, therapeuo, is one that means 'to nurse back to health' in a normal, non-miraculous way. 

Really just quote you ref for that please because mine says.



Strong's #2323: therapeuo (pronounced ther-ap-yoo'-o)

from the same as 2324; to wait upon menially, i.e. (figuratively) to adore (God), or (specially) to relieve (of disease):--cure, heal, worship.


Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

́therapeuō

1) to serve, do service

2) to heal, cure, restore to health

Part of Speech: verb

Relation: from the same as G2324

Citing in TDNT: 3:128, 331

Jesus was going to travel to the man's house, stay there as a therapist, and treat the man.

Now Jesus is a nurse. Ok prove it. Quote the lot. With scripture
Again mine says mauch the same as the above.


Strong's #2390: iaomai (pronounced ee-ah'-om-ahee)

middle voice of apparently a primary verb; to cure (literally or figuratively):--heal, make whole.


Thayer's Greek Lexicon:


iaomai

1) to cure, heal

2) to make whole

2a) to free from errors and sins, to bring about (one' s) salvation

Part of Speech: verb

Relation: middle voice of apparently a primary verb

Citing in TDNT: 3:194, 344

The centurion's faith, however, is stronger than this, as he responds that if Jesus will but say the word, the man will be healed (iaomai). (v.8)  Iaomai doesn't have to indicate a miraculous healing, but it may, and in this case that is precisely what happened. (v.13)

Faith is sronger than "This" what this Jesus?

This story ends with a miraculous healing, but there are plenty of places where Jesus did actually treat the people who came to Him via "regular" means.

Jarrod

Regular means?

[MeMyself]

I am talking to a lot who are  in disagreent with me. Maybe its because they are not being exactly clear on where they satnd. It is wquite difficult and when you ar egetting told "I dont care about you time" thats not very encouraging to me.  There is nothing I said so far that you have a greed with nothing. Its like walking in tar. lets continue. Look up the other seven scriptures. If you can be botherd. difficult rtying to teach with  you not being that interested in looking at what I gave you.

Perhaps the problem is that you feel you are teaching people here rather than just being on level ground and having a discussion.

You don't seem to want that...just blind "obedience" and agreement. 

[Believer]

A thorn in the flesh never at any time or point in scripture indicates sickness or desase, or infimity.

What is it then?

Well there's only one place in Scripture that uses that phrase.... but I reckon that the verse speaks to what it is reasonably clearly:

"There was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure."

Jarrod

Na man you need to get it right when you are teaching there are seven not one. Have another look. If you cant find them Just ask. I really dont need to know what you reckon. I need scripture.

Why don't you just share them?  This is an odd game...

This is not Mcdonalds.  Read it if you want it. If you dont. Then dont read it.

[MeMyself]

This is not Mcdonalds.  Read it if you want it. If you dont. Then dont read it.

What? 

People have said there is one place the thorn is mentioned, you say there are seven, but don't give the references.  Why not?  In the interest of being a good communicator and being heard and understood, why don't you just share them?

[chosenone]

A thorn in the flesh never at any time or point in scripture indicates sickness or desase, or infimity.

What is it then?

Well there's only one place in Scripture that uses that phrase.... but I reckon that the verse speaks to what it is reasonably clearly:

"There was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure."

Jarrod

Na man you need to get it right when you are teaching there are seven not one. Have another look. If you cant find them Just ask. I really dont need to know what you reckon. I need scripture.

Why don't you just share them?  This is an odd game...

This is not Mcdonalds.  Read it if you want it. If you dont. Then dont read it.

  I would still like to know out of interest what healings you have seen after you prayed for people. This is the third time have asked. I do believe God heals today and I know people who have been healed, but I also know those who werent healed even after they did all the right things.

[Believer]

Perhaps the problem is that you feel you are teaching people here rather than just being on level ground and having a discussion.

You don't seem to want that...just blind "obedience" and agreement. 

Is that what Jesus wants? I just want to share my experiance and share whats happened with me. How many people have been healed becusae you layed hands on them? These signs will follow those who believe. I believe and they follow me. DO they follow you? Are you a believer? You come in here to tell us all what you think, with no scripture and try to tell me how it is. Please tell how many you saw healed by laying on of hands?  All you dont here is nit pick. Now lets see what you got on healing?

[DaveW]

How many people have been healed becusae you layed hands on them? These signs will follow those who believe. I believe and they follow me. DO they follow you? Are you a believer?

IT also says they shall cast out demons as one of those signs.  You ever done that? 

I have.

[Believer]

  I would still like to know out of interest what healings you have seen after you prayed for people. This is the third time have asked.

If you dont believe what I teach here why would you believe what has happened through me laying on hands. I said this at the start.
What you want to do is see whats missing and then say why didint this one or  that thing get healed.
I seen this so many times Its all so predictable.
I get this on a daily basis. every one wants to be a teacher. Everyone knows better. What I know works.
What the church teaches take you round in circles. Maybe God will heal maybe theres sin. maybe its generational curses to deal witha nad all that tripe. God says take the word if the recive it let your blessing remain. if not yada yada you know the rest.


Where did you ask me three time s who was healed by me praying or laying on hands?

I do believe God heals today and I know people who have been healed,

so does satan more than you actully. He knows way more than most of us walk in. satan know your full potetial So does God. Its us who miss it as scripture says we are willfully ignorant. I used to thing these type scriptures were for the world  Nope there for Christians.

but I also know those who werent healed even after they did all the right things.

This is the last time I will try and tell you what scripture says unless I get some responce from you. Dust an all that .
I have seen 40 people healed in the last two years. In the previous 21 I seen none. Ok whats the difference?

In the 21 years I prayed dear God will yuu please heal AB an c. None ever got healed, other than by a doctor. AN dthe church claims that and says God healed them. Woops no He never.  The doctor did.
Then I hear God wants to use us. Really prove it I say. and he did . And it worked. But I knew as soon as I heard the teaching it was true. My wife was healed over skype, it was what we would call only sore knees.  But that was enough for me to push out and try it. I did and it never worked first time. I prayed layed hands on 200 people, I saw 40 or more healed. Some were instant and some took more prayer. The prayer last about 15 to 30 seconds. and I dont ask God anything. satan came to steal kill and destroy. I commaned the sickness,pian,infirmity to go. Boday be healed in Jesus name. and keep on believing no matter what you see. Your eyes ears nose soul,flesh will all lie. The only thing that is true is Gods word. Believers will lay hands ion the sick and they WILL be healed. end of lesson. SO who or what will you believe. If you fail and nothing happens keep sytanding ion Gods word. You really want the most beutifull teaching I ever heard. He makes me cry often. Dan Mohler. I listen to many teachers.  Dan will tell you all of this will work for you. But to see it work fully You need to soend alone time with Father.
why couldnt we heal the boy. Jesus says because of you lack of faith. and finnishes with thius type can only come out with fasting a nd prayer. what are they both? Spending time with Father.
No one will ever convince me this desnt work it does.. I saw heart murmur from birth go. Blood disorder guy was told by doc it will kill you. He could stand sold his boat, paid off his sons told then to get abother job. They did. I prayed nine time and he is now perfect. Back on a boat working back on his bike. was on 60 tablets a day. couldnt stand at a funeral one day but perfect now. Bless you Lord. Babys eye healed in 1 hour. two mens knees healed weeks befor operation was to happen. Sore backs,heads teeth.
So it doesnt matter to me what people think I know this works. I stand on Gods word. Ypou know when yopu just heard the truth and God fills you. If you heart is closed it will still work. I told you about the witch doctors in mexico.  ahh any way. You decide. I think there was only one person here who was on my side. But thats Ok me an God are a majority.

[Believer]

How many people have been healed becusae you layed hands on them? These signs will follow those who believe. I believe and they follow me. DO they follow you? Are you a believer?

IT also says they shall cast out demons as one of those signs.  You ever done that? 

I have.

I asked you a question you gonna answer it.

[MeMyself]

Perhaps the problem is that you feel you are teaching people here rather than just being on level ground and having a discussion.

You don't seem to want that...just blind "obedience" and agreement. 

Is that what Jesus wants?

Do you mean to compare yourself to Christ as if we are to obey and agree with you as we do Him? 

Or do you mean, Christ wants us to be in lockstep agreement with YOU and YOUR convictions? 

The answer to both is no. What He wants is for us to be gracious and show grace in our disagreements.

I just want to share my experiance and share whats happened with me. How many people have been healed becusae you layed hands on them? These signs will follow those who believe. I believe and they follow me.

Ok, then you should be able to provide us with proof of this...

DO they follow you? Are you a believer?

Yes, I am a believer. No. The gift of healing is not one God has given me.  And?  Do you ask to discredit me for some reason?

You come in here to tell us all what you think, with no scripture and try to tell me how it is.

No I didn't. I *asked* you why you wouldn't post the places a thorn in the flesh was spoken of in scripture and I suggested that perhaps you step down from your thought that you are teaching us, to simply be "like" us and have a discussion.    Seems odd that you are so easily offended.

All you dont here is nit pick.

I am not nit picking.  I would like you to show the scriptures you claim are there for there being seven places a thorn in the flesh was spoken of and show how it does not mean illness or anything like that.  Thanks.

[Believer]

Do you mean to compare yourself to Christ as if we are to obey and agree with you as we do Him? 

Or do you mean, Christ wants us to be in lockstep agreement with YOU and YOUR convictions? 

The answer to both is no. What He wants is for us to be gracious and show grace in our disagreements.

I am giving scripture that Christ would give. I expect you to recive it, prove or disprove it.

I just want to share my experiance and share whats happened with me. How many people have been healed becusae you layed hands on them? These signs will follow those who believe. I believe and they follow me.

Ok, then you should be able to provide us with proof of this...

I gave many  examples of why Christ heals all. And you should be able to disprove it. If you dont agree.

DO they follow you? Are you a believer?

Yes, I am a believer. No. The gift of healing is not one God has given me.  And?  Do you ask to discredit me for some reason?

Your a believer are you sure . The bible say these signs shall follow believers? Now you say that you dont have that gift. Thats a cop out. were does it say that you dont have the gift or you do have the gift of healing?  As for you being discredited Its to expose false teaching that is far and wide in the churchs. But it "Seems odd that you are so easily offended."

You come in here to tell us all what you think, with no scripture and try to tell me how it is.

No I didn't. I *asked* you why you wouldn't post the places a thorn in the flesh was spoken of in scripture and I suggested that perhaps you step down from your thought that you are teaching us, to simply be "like" us and have a discussion.    Seems odd that you are so easily offended.

seems odd that you think you can make a falswe accusation based on assunption and I should rejoice :) I dont get offended any more.

All you do here is nit pick.

You come in here to tell us all what you think, with no scripture and try to tell me how it is.

I am not nit picking.  I would like you to show the scriptures you claim are there for there being seven places a thorn in the flesh was spoken of and show how it does not mean illness or anything like that.  Thanks.
[/quote]

Man you never took anything to the table of value. I would like you to spend some time looking it up and getting to know what your talking about. Like I said this is not Mcdonalds. They live just a bit futher doon the road than me.

[Believer]

I would like to thank the staff for the freedom I had here to post my thoughts . I have tried this on other forums and it all went pear shaped and I got banned from fives sites. Becuase people react and think you thinking your better and get all upset and the first thing you say that resembles any thing fro banning the jump on the ban button. Very often the knock me for my spelling but thats always after the cant debate with me. So thank you for an open honest forum.

[MeMyself]

Your a believer are you sure .

Yessir, without a doubt.  John 10:27 and Romans 8:16 prove this to be so.

The bible say these signs shall follow believers? Now you say that you dont have that gift. Thats a cop out.

Not so. There are many gifts, and we are not equipped all of us with the same ones.  1 Corinthians 12:8-10 includes wisdom, knowledge, faith, healing, miracles, prophecy, discerning of spirits, speaking in tongues, and interpretation of tongues. Ephesians 4: 11 and 12 lists the gifts as follows: And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,  for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry,  for the edifying of o the body of Christ.
Romans 12 speaks to us also about the varied gifts within the Body of Christ; Romans 12:3-8 For I say,  through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt  to each one a measure of faith. For  as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function,  so  we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another. Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, let us l prophesy in proportion to our faith;  or ministry, let us use it in our ministering;  he who teaches, in teaching;  he who exhorts, in exhortation; he who gives, with liberality;  he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy,  with cheerfulness.
So you see, you are incorrect, it is not a cop out at all, actually.

were does it say that you dont have the gift or you do have the gift of healing?

Shown.

As for you being discredited Its to expose false teaching that is far and wide in the churchs. But it "Seems odd that you are so easily offended."

I am not offended. I just think its sad how quickly you jump to such behavior as trying to discredit someone who is only trying to understand you better. 

seems odd that you think you can make a falswe accusation based on assunption

That IS odd, because I didn't do that.

and I should rejoice :) I dont get offended any more.

Your posting style sure makes you sound offended.  My apologies, however for reading you incorrectly.

Man you never took anything to the table of value.

What?  What does that mean?

I would like you to spend some time looking it up and getting to know what your talking about.

I know what I am talking about...I would like to understand what YOU are talking about. You said the thorn in the flesh was mentioned 7 places.  I would like you to show us where.  Why is that something you are unwilling to do?

Like I said this is not Mcdonalds.

[k-pappy]

First things first I have no idea who the word of faith movement are.

I find that extremely odd for two reasons 1) You didn't say that when I first mentioned it, only when I posted a scriptural refutation of it, and 2) Everything talk about is point for point from the WoF movement.  Maybe you have a different name for it?  Positive Confession, Faith Movement, Health and Wealth?

Bottom line what you are claiming as fact is the teaching of the Word of Faith Movement and is false gospel (as per the scriptures I posted earlier).

[SwordMaster]

[...]or sometimes He knows that a person has returned to Him in their dire need (such as cancer), but He knows that if He heals them they will go back out into the world again. In such a case, God will allow them to die so that He won't lose them again.

Just food for thought from 30 years of ministry.

Pure Scripture-less speculation. It's too bad that your "30 years of ministry" hasn't taught you to not go beyond what is written, (1 Cor. 4:6). Timothy was a believing Church leader and associate of the Apostle Paul. Maybe you can explain his "frequent ailments."

Nomad, it is too bad that your evident inexperience hasn't taught you that not everything in the world is addressed in Scripture.

[notreligus]

One of the finest Christian men that I've known of is Dallas Holm (the gospel music writer/singer).   His wife has been battling cancer for 24 years.   I heard him speak of the condemnation that he has heard concerning sin in a person's life keeping them from being healed.   He rebuked it.   How do you think he and his wife feel about this when both have faith that God heals and yet his wife suffers?   

He has an Assemblies of God background via his association with David Wilkerson's ministry.   I have spent quite a lot of time with the Assemblies, various congregations, and I found them generally to proclaim grace and legalism in the same breath.   Grace and legalism are like oil and water and don't mix.   Our righteousness comes from Christ.   So, if we believe that we are unworthy of healing then that is the very same thing as stating that Christ is not worthy of His righteousness.   Some Christians, even with 30 years of ministry experience, are very slow learners.   

[SwordMaster]

Believer said...

I believe that Scripture demonstrates that God wants to heal as many as who will come to Him for healing.

Amen and stick with this cause its a fact.

..but of course, Jesus taught that one must come in faith.

Woops theres another devil there that "but." If only you stuck with the above part.

No Jesus never taught you must have faith.

To the contrary, Believer, in His own home town it is recorded that He could not heal very many because of their lack of faith. We don't need Jesus to say that you need faith in order to be healed when the Scriptures demonstrate that fact.

He did say your faith Healed you. Did everyone Jesus healed believe in Him NO. Did He ask anyone to prove what they believed No. So that is not true in this case and many other cases.

Basically faith is believing, no? It is true that not all who Jesus healed had faith in Him...especially when it comes to the dead that He raised, but then again Jesus didn't always act upon the sick person's faith...but in the faith of others. The four friends who broke through the roof and lowered their sick friend down to Jesus to be healed, Jesus acted upon their faith, not the faith of the sick person...yet faith is ALWAYS part a parcel of healing...someone's faith, either the one praying, or another standing by, or the one being prayed for.

The issue of blood woamn. She set the paramiters to be healed in. She said if I only just touch His garment. SHe could have said If I just see Him at a distance I will be healed. It would have happened.

Now you are going beyond the perimeters of Scripture. Where did anyone ever look at Jesus only and receive healing?

God will meet you were you are at and the parimiters YOU set. If you say I have canser I will die from it Guess what. You will. We are to call those things into being that are not or vice versa what ever you want.

More assumption that goes beyond Scriptures purview. Again, if your mother prays for you in faith, even though you tell yourself you will die from cancer, then God may move based upon her faith, not yours.

God wants to heal people because healing demonstrates that God is, it gives people hope in God and saving faith in Christ. However, many are not healed because of one or another issue...either they really don't believe they will be healed, or the person praying for them does not have the faith to heal them, or other scenarios.

Yes we and our unbelief and our experiances get in the road , and satan will also try very hard to stop any of this kingdom thinking.

Then there is also the timing...and who God wants to do the healing. For example, Jesus walked by the crippled man at the Gate Beautiful numerous times in His three year ministry...But God wanted Peter to heal him after the Day of Pentecost. Paul allowed the demon-possessed girl to follow him around crying out after him until he finally got fed-up with the behavior, then he cast the demon out of her...why didn't he do it the very first day? Because God did not want him to do it on the very first day.

Now this is not scripture, this is adding bro. No were in scripture did it say Jesus passed him numerous times in three years.

Again, Believer, we know that Jesus walked among Jerusalem periodically for three years, He went into the temple, he was aware of the crippled man setting at the gate begging for alms because that was the custom in those days. It is more likely that He passed him by more than once than it is that He did not...my statement is based upon the facts, it is based upon the Scripture...we don't need the Scripture to say word-for-word that something happened if it is alluded to by the Scripture. If you are going to be like that, then I need to ask based upon the Psalms if you think God has feathers...

We don't always know God's plan concerning people and healing...but in some cases He does not heal someone because of sin (as Paul speaks of in Corinthians and the Communion meal) or sometimes He knows that a person has returned to Him in their dire need (such as cancer), but He knows that if He heals them they will go back out into the world again. In such a case, God will allow them to die so that He won't lose them again.

No sorry again man. Love you bro and can see your heart clear. I know a minister who sttod up and told his congregation hes sorry for telling them a hard gospel. Tears running down his face sorry. I now know this simple gospel that works. Changed his whole life . If you PM me I will give you some absoulutly amazing teachings on this that are so clear and Your heart just burns inside you, like the two on the road.

Sorry, Believer, but what I said above is not only based upon the Scripture but also upon what God Himself has revealed to me...and the two go hand-in-hand. This is not a "hard gospel"...nothing about the gospel is hard, unless it is another gospel that is not found in the Scriptures.

Any way. Jesus healed ten leapers and only nine comes back. He wants them all healed now. God isnt maybe I will and maybe I wont. Jesus never ever said this. He even said Go and sin no more, Why would He tell them to try and do something only he was capable of? Thats a whole other teaching for another thread I love it . Amen alleluya to the Lamb. Just again that is not scripture. Taking the bread and cup unworthaliy is not to do with sin. It is taking the cup and not believing you healing is paid for and you sin is paid for.

No, Paul said by the Spirit exactly what he said...

1 Corinthians 11:23-30
23   For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread,
24   and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, "This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me."
25   In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me."
26   For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.
27   Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord.
28   Let a person examine himself, then, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
29   For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself.
30   That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.

To partake of Christ in an unworthy manner is sin and brings judgment upon the offender, just as the Spirit says above...and some were sick and others who did so had died, and Paul told them that plainly.


Blessings!

[SwordMaster]

Smith Wigglesworth believed that God wanted to heal everyone.   He prayed for a couple of folk after they were pronounced dead and they began to breath again.   Yet Smith Wigglesworth kept a large glass jar which was full of the kidney stones he had passed throughout his life and kept passing until his death.   God is sovereign and infinite.  When you try to understand Him with your finite minds you are wasting your time and trying to bring Him down to your level.   He deserves our honor and praise even when we have kidney stones.

The claim that it is sin in the life of a believer that precludes healing is one of the greatest lies Satan has ever perpetuated.   Pentecostals, in general, need to repent of this false teaching.

I'm with you here NR...I love reading about Wigglesworth's life, he is such an inspiration...and yet like you said, he had health problems too. I think in some cases it follows after Paul's example...someone doing great things in God's name sometimes begins to get a big head, and God needs to let us know that it is by His grace and love He is using us as His vessel...and we need to be shown that we are only dirt in His hands.

Blessings!

[SwordMaster]

The Word of Faith movement presents a false gospel, which is very dangerous to Christianity.  It should be refuted at all times with sound scriptural truth.

[Believer]

Well it seems to me you are ignoring my questions quoting only what you want back to me. Plenty saying plenty and nothing to back up your cliams. Your  all trying to tell me one thing or another. And omit what suits you. I had enough. carry on regaurdless. To many miss quoting and twisting what I said.

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

A thorn in the flesh never at any time or point in scripture indicates sickness or desase, or infimity.

What is it then?

Well there's only one place in Scripture that uses that phrase.... but I reckon that the verse speaks to what it is reasonably clearly:

"There was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure."

Jarrod

Na man you need to get it right when you are teaching there are seven not one. Have another look. If you cant find them Just ask. I really dont need to know what you reckon. I need scripture.

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And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

I already looked.  Your turn.

Jarrod

[Nomad1689]

Sword Master writing to me:

[...]or sometimes He knows that a person has returned to Him in their dire need (such as cancer), but He knows that if He heals them they will go back out into the world again. In such a case, God will allow them to die so that He won't lose them again.

Just food for thought from 30 years of ministry.

Pure Scripture-less speculation. It's too bad that your "30 years of ministry" hasn't taught you to not go beyond what is written, (1 Cor. 4:6). Timothy was a believing Church leader and associate of the Apostle Paul. Maybe you can explain his "frequent ailments."

Nomad, it is too bad that your evident inexperience hasn't taught you that not everything in the world is addressed in Scripture.

Sword Master writing to Believer in his very next post:

Now you are going beyond the perimeters of Scripture.

More assumption that goes beyond Scriptures purview.

Do I detect a bit of hypocrisy here? You scold me for pointing out your Scriptureless speculation, then you turn around admonish another man for the same in your very next post. What happened to "Nomad, it is too bad that your evident inexperience hasn't taught you that not everything in the world is addressed in Scripture?" 

[chosenone]

  I would still like to know out of interest what healings you have seen after you prayed for people. This is the third time have asked.

If you dont believe what I teach here why would you believe what has happened through me laying on hands. I said this at the start.
What you want to do is see whats missing and then say why didint this one or  that thing get healed.
I seen this so many times Its all so predictable.
I get this on a daily basis. every one wants to be a teacher. Everyone knows better. What I know works.
What the church teaches take you round in circles. Maybe God will heal maybe theres sin. maybe its generational curses to deal witha nad all that tripe. God says take the word if the recive it let your blessing remain. if not yada yada you know the rest.


Where did you ask me three time s who was healed by me praying or laying on hands?

I do believe God heals today and I know people who have been healed,

so does satan more than you actully. He knows way more than most of us walk in. satan know your full potetial So does God. Its us who miss it as scripture says we are willfully ignorant. I used to thing these type scriptures were for the world  Nope there for Christians.

but I also know those who werent healed even after they did all the right things.

This is the last time I will try and tell you what scripture says unless I get some responce from you. Dust an all that .
I have seen 40 people healed in the last two years. In the previous 21 I seen none. Ok whats the difference?

In the 21 years I prayed dear God will yuu please heal AB an c. None ever got healed, other than by a doctor. AN dthe church claims that and says God healed them. Woops no He never.  The doctor did.
Then I hear God wants to use us. Really prove it I say. and he did . And it worked. But I knew as soon as I heard the teaching it was true. My wife was healed over skype, it was what we would call only sore knees.  But that was enough for me to push out and try it. I did and it never worked first time. I prayed layed hands on 200 people, I saw 40 or more healed. Some were instant and some took more prayer. The prayer last about 15 to 30 seconds. and I dont ask God anything. satan came to steal kill and destroy. I commaned the sickness,pian,infirmity to go. Boday be healed in Jesus name. and keep on believing no matter what you see. Your eyes ears nose soul,flesh will all lie. The only thing that is true is Gods word. Believers will lay hands ion the sick and they WILL be healed. end of lesson. SO who or what will you believe. If you fail and nothing happens keep sytanding ion Gods word. You really want the most beutifull teaching I ever heard. He makes me cry often. Dan Mohler. I listen to many teachers.  Dan will tell you all of this will work for you. But to see it work fully You need to soend alone time with Father.
why couldnt we heal the boy. Jesus says because of you lack of faith. and finnishes with thius type can only come out with fasting a nd prayer. what are they both? Spending time with Father.
No one will ever convince me this desnt work it does.. I saw heart murmur from birth go. Blood disorder guy was told by doc it will kill you. He could stand sold his boat, paid off his sons told then to get abother job. They did. I prayed nine time and he is now perfect. Back on a boat working back on his bike. was on 60 tablets a day. couldnt stand at a funeral one day but perfect now. Bless you Lord. Babys eye healed in 1 hour. two mens knees healed weeks befor operation was to happen. Sore backs,heads teeth.
So it doesnt matter to me what people think I know this works. I stand on Gods word. Ypou know when yopu just heard the truth and God fills you. If you heart is closed it will still work. I told you about the witch doctors in mexico.  ahh any way. You decide. I think there was only one person here who was on my side. But thats Ok me an God are a majority.

Umm, please read my posts. I have said several times that God desires to and does heal today, and I have now asked 4 times if you can tell us what healings you have seen. Its not a trick question, and I am not sure why you are hesitant to answer it.
I know people who have been healed, and would like to know what healings you have seen and what sicknesses they had. 

[chosenone]

Perhaps the problem is that you feel you are teaching people here rather than just being on level ground and having a discussion.

You don't seem to want that...just blind "obedience" and agreement. 

Is that what Jesus wants? I just want to share my experiance and share whats happened with me. How many people have been healed becusae you layed hands on them? These signs will follow those who believe. I believe and they follow me. DO they follow you? Are you a believer? You come in here to tell us all what you think, with no scripture and try to tell me how it is. Please tell how many you saw healed by laying on of hands?  All you dont here is nit pick. Now lets see what you got on healing?

Why is it necessary for you to portray yourself as 'holier than thou' and that you are somehow more 'spiritual' than other because you have seen people healed?  Maybe you have the gift of healing, and but others have different gifts that are equally important. The fruits are also very important to tell believers apart from non believers, and one of them is humility.   
You ask another member how many people she has seen healed when she laid hands on them, cant you see how arrogant that comes across as?
I know you are very young, so probably need to mature some more, but honestly, being arrogant and prideful wont help your cause.

[SwordMaster]

Sword Master writing to me:

[...]or sometimes He knows that a person has returned to Him in their dire need (such as cancer), but He knows that if He heals them they will go back out into the world again. In such a case, God will allow them to die so that He won't lose them again.

Just food for thought from 30 years of ministry.

Pure Scripture-less speculation. It's too bad that your "30 years of ministry" hasn't taught you to not go beyond what is written, (1 Cor. 4:6). Timothy was a believing Church leader and associate of the Apostle Paul. Maybe you can explain his "frequent ailments."

Nomad, it is too bad that your evident inexperience hasn't taught you that not everything in the world is addressed in Scripture.

Sword Master writing to Believer in his very next post:

Now you are going beyond the perimeters of Scripture.

More assumption that goes beyond Scriptures purview.

Do I detect a bit of hypocrisy here? You scold me for pointing out your Scriptureless speculation, then you turn around admonish another man for the same in your very next post. What happened to "Nomad, it is too bad that your evident inexperience hasn't taught you that not everything in the world is addressed in Scripture?" 

Nomad...how about next time making the whole quote so that we can see what I was referring to, instead of cut-n-pasting exactly what you want to in order to make someone look like they are doing what you accused me of?

This was the conversation...

[Believer]  The issue of blood woamn. She set the paramiters to be healed in. She said if I only just touch His garment. SHe could have said If I just see Him at a distance I will be healed. It would have happened.

[Me]  Now you are going beyond the perimeters of Scripture.

Saying that we "set the parameter to be healed" is not Scriptural...God sets those parameters, not us. Then you addressed...

[Believer]   God will meet you were you are at and the parimiters YOU set. If you say I have canser I will die from it Guess what. You will. We are to call those things into being that are not or vice versa what ever you want.

[Me]    More assumption that goes beyond Scriptures purview.

Again, life experience tells us that if God wants to heal a person, He will do so whether it is through your faith or another's.

If you are not going to be honest in your posts, then please don't post at all...

[Nomad1689]

If you are not going to be honest in your posts, then please don't post at all...

You're the one not being honest and everyone can see it. Maybe you should take your own advice.

[Alan]

I have tried this on other forums and it all went pear shaped and I got banned from fives sites. Becuase people react and think you thinking your better and get all upset and the first thing you say that resembles any thing fro banning the jump on the ban button. Very often the knock me for my spelling but thats always after the cant debate with me. So thank you for an open honest forum.

You should take these experiences and think hard about how they may be affecting the many people you encounter. You certainly have not entered here with humility and compassion for other members, but rather come across as arrogant and intolerant of other peoples opinions and concerns. I pray that God opens your heart in learning how to address people with love and compassion as I see your method as narcissistic and prideful. 

[Free Christian]

Many of the things that happened in the early days of the church were for the establishing of it and to show the power of the gospel, that it was real. Back then they had no Bible as we have today, from Genesis to Revelation.
It can be looked upon like the Israelites travelling through the wilderness. There were times when they had no food and it needed to be supplied by God supernaturally, water too. When they reached the promised land there was no need for the supernatural, the miracles of being fed by God in that way ceased.
The early church needed to be fed and witnessed to and by supernaturally so to speak.
Many think that all written is for them now, each generation reading the directions of Jesus as if it were being said to them specifically. Not all is. Many things people think are coming have actually already been and gone.
One thing that has me often shaking my head is the claim of speaking in tongues.
The Bible gives a clear example of such at the day of Pentecost. It cannot be denied, known foreign languages being spoken by those who did not speak that language to those there who did. Yet today many claim to speak, and yet the language they use is not a known tongue as the Bible clearly shows it to be, a known tongue. Paul says, though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels..., yet he is not saying anyone can but is using it as an extreme example. The same as someone saying "though I could swim the length of the worlds oceans" does not mean they or anyone can. It was just an extreme example. But many claim that this is proof that angelic tongues are spoken or proof that tongues unknown to anyone can be spoken. Its not.
A study over 5 years, if I recall how long it was correctly but is was over a number of years, was undertaken where a person went to different churches who claimed to speak in tongues, all over the world, and recorded the tongues spoken. They then gave the tapes to a language expert who claimed that not once were there any known languages spoken. Strange considering there is a clear example in the Bible of known language.
Yet not once was a known language spoken, in 5 years or thereabouts of taping! So how did it go? At Pentecost known languages were spoken, but just that once and recorded in the Bible as such, but from then on it was unknown languages!?
What on earth is the point of someone speaking a language that does not exist as we know it, then have someone miraculously understand and translate it into one that is known. That's like me giving a person some money, but instead of giving them the money of the country we are in, say Australia, I go to somewhere, swap my $20 AUD for $20 American, then hand it to them so they can then go and get it changed back into Aussie dollars! We are told to try the spirits, how can we know and be sure if someone is really speaking in tongues when they speak in a language that no-one can recognise and one that does not even exist! How is that testable? Its not. So there we have something that is claimed to be from God but is untestable, not able to be tried as we are told to do. That should for any Christian immediately ring the alarm bells loud and clear.

[chosenone]

I have tried this on other forums and it all went pear shaped and I got banned from fives sites. Becuase people react and think you thinking your better and get all upset and the first thing you say that resembles any thing fro banning the jump on the ban button. Very often the knock me for my spelling but thats always after the cant debate with me. So thank you for an open honest forum.

You should take these experiences and think hard about how they may be affecting the many people you encounter. You certainly have not entered here with humility and compassion for other members, but rather come across as arrogant and intolerant of other peoples opinions and concerns. I pray that God opens your heart in learning how to address people with love and compassion as I see your method as narcissistic and prideful.

Absolutely Alan.
Believer, its not what you say that gets you banned, its the way you say it. Its your attitude and arrogance and pride. Not helpful or attractive qualities.

[New Creation]

Many of the things that happened in the early days of the church were for the establishing of it and to show the power of the gospel, that it was real. Back then they had no Bible as we have today, from Genesis to Revelation.
It can be looked upon like the Israelites travelling through the wilderness. There were times when they had no food and it needed to be supplied by God supernaturally, water too. When they reached the promised land there was no need for the supernatural, the miracles of being fed by God in that way ceased.
The early church needed to be fed and witnessed to and by supernaturally so to speak.
Many think that all written is for them now, each generation reading the directions of Jesus as if it were being said to them specifically. Not all is. Many things people think are coming have actually already been and gone.
One thing that has me often shaking my head is the claim of speaking in tongues.
The Bible gives a clear example of such at the day of Pentecost. It cannot be denied, known foreign languages being spoken by those who did not speak that language to those there who did. Yet today many claim to speak, and yet the language they use is not a known tongue as the Bible clearly shows it to be, a known tongue. Paul says, though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels..., yet he is not saying anyone can but is using it as an extreme example. The same as someone saying "though I could swim the length of the worlds oceans" does not mean they or anyone can. It was just an extreme example. But many claim that this is proof that angelic tongues are spoken or proof that tongues unknown to anyone can be spoken. Its not.
A study over 5 years, if I recall how long it was correctly but is was over a number of years, was undertaken where a person went to different churches who claimed to speak in tongues, all over the world, and recorded the tongues spoken. They then gave the tapes to a language expert who claimed that not once were there any known languages spoken. Strange considering there is a clear example in the Bible of known language.
Yet not once was a known language spoken, in 5 years or thereabouts of taping! So how did it go? At Pentecost known languages were spoken, but just that once and recorded in the Bible as such, but from then on it was unknown languages!?
What on earth is the point of someone speaking a language that does not exist as we know it, then have someone miraculously understand and translate it into one that is known. That's like me giving a person some money, but instead of giving them the money of the country we are in, say Australia, I go to somewhere, swap my $20 AUD for $20 American, then hand it to them so they can then go and get it changed back into Aussie dollars! We are told to try the spirits, how can we know and be sure if someone is really speaking in tongues when they speak in a language that no-one can recognise and one that does not even exist! How is that testable? Its not. So there we have something that is claimed to be from God but is untestable, not able to be tried as we are told to do. That should for any Christian immediately ring the alarm bells loud and clear.

...Therefore the healing of others by the laying of hands was reserved for only the early church and not for the contemporary church just as was speaking in tongues?

I wholeheartedly agree with everything you have said btw, I just don't want to jump to conclusions on how this is relevant to the OP.

[Free Christian]

Dave said in another post that was moved for here but I cannot ask this there as the Mod wants the topics to stay on topic.
Anyway, Dave, you cited the boy who could see though a glass eye and it was proven by doctors and medical professionals to be true. Do you have any evidence of this please that you could supply, links, documents that are verified?

[Free Christian]

Apparently Ronald Coyne, the young boy who grew up to be a faith healer said this.
That his eyesight in the eyeless socket sometimes did not see, especially in the presence of non believers.
He was challenged in a town once where he went to preach to have all the expenses paid for to be examined by a top ophthalmologist, he declined the offer and threatened to sue the person who offered this. That person welcomed his threat as Coyne would then need to prove in court he could see out of it. He declined that too, and left town.
So Coyne had eyesight that was conditional on those about him, could see for believers but blind for non believers. How convenient! What sort of healing is that supposed to be. Would be like the healed lepers being healed but when those who did not believe in Christ were around them the leprosy would return, then disappear when they left!?

[DaveW]

Apparently Ronald Coyne, the young boy who grew up to be a faith healer said this.
That his eyesight in the eyeless socket sometimes did not see, especially in the presence of non believers.
He was challenged in a town once where he went to preach to have all the expenses paid for to be examined by a top ophthalmologist, he declined the offer and threatened to sue the person who offered this. That person welcomed his threat as Coyne would then need to prove in court he could see out of it. He declined that too, and left town.
So Coyne had eyesight that was conditional on those about him, could see for believers but blind for non believers. How convenient! What sort of healing is that supposed to be. Would be like the healed lepers being healed but when those who did not believe in Christ were around them the leprosy would return, then disappear when they left!?

That is interesting.  And I do think that was his name.  (like I said the last I heard of him was in the 1970s)  I did not know that his sight was conditional. Apparently the confirming doctor that was on the show my friend watched was also a believer. 

But does anyone have an explanation why he COULD see out of an empty socket, even if it was only at certain times?

[Free Christian]

Because whenever legitimate unbiased tests were put on offer he declined, threatened to sue, even told one man who said he did not believe him "God will destroy you for that, possibly on your way home tonight". Of course the man wasn't destroyed on his way home that night as Coyne had suggested. How nice of him to have said that, why didn't the good man instead do as the Bible tells us, after all this was in front of a congregation, and pray for him?
How could he do it, see? There are many pretty good illusionists out there, take many of the ones we see today. Some can make a mobile phone that is handed to them magically appear in a coke bottle. They appear so real it is amazing.
Yes, Coyne said himself that at times, especially around "unbelievers" his eye would lose its sight. Convenient for that to happen. He did nothing more than create an illusion, obviously a pretty good one, but not good enough to allow himself to be tested by an unbiased professional ophthalmologist! Only by those he approved of. Conditional healing that came and went. That's unbiblical.