Mark 16:17-20

[Rella]

Baptism is the time, the occasion, when God forgives the sins of the one being baptized and bestows the gift, the indwelling, of the Holy Spirit to the one being baptized.

Please explain where and why 1 Cor 7:14-16 fits in with Baptism saving.

14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through [j]her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy. 15 Yet if the unbelieving one is leaving, [k]let him leave; the brother or the sister is not under bondage in such cases, but God has called us in peace. 16 For how do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?

Also, it is said that to receive the gifts of the spirit, they can only come to those who have the indwelling of the spirit.

If so, if " Baptism is the time, the occasion, when God forgives the sins of the one being baptized and bestows the gift, the indwelling, of the Holy Spirit to the one being baptized." When Jesus said and can be read following Mark 16:16.... in Mark 16:17 and 18... 17 These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."

Primarily Mark 16:17.... What of those who have had these gifts but were not immersed after believing?

Finally, and likely a subject for a new topic.

When Jesus was baptized and the Holy Spirit descended ... Math 3:16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. 17 And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."

Did the Holy Spirit only touch Him or did it indwell Him?

[4WD]

Give me some time and I will try to give you my best answers to your questions.  I will come back later this afternoon or first thing tomorrow.

[4WD]

Please explain where and why 1 Cor 7:14-16 fits in with Baptism saving.

Looking at the passage, I am not sure what your question is.  The subject of baptism doesn't come up in anywhere in that passage. 1 Corinthians 7:1-16 is basically about marriage, particularly when the marriage involves the paring of a believer with an unbeliever.

Also, it is said that to receive the gifts of the spirit, they can only come to those who have the indwelling of the spirit.

I don't think that is said anywhere in the scriptures and I don't think that is true.

If so, if " Baptism is the time, the occasion, when God forgives the sins of the one being baptized and bestows the gift, the indwelling, of the Holy Spirit to the one being baptized." When Jesus said and can be read following Mark 16:16.... in Mark 16:17 and 18... 17 These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
Primarily Mark 16:17.... What of those who have had these gifts but were not immersed after believing?

Again, I am not sure what your question is.  The usual question on this is whether or not it is said to apply universally to those who believe or only to some.  I think the usual answer is that it is meant to apply only to some. However, to your specific question about those who have had these gifts but were not immersed after believing.  I don't know of any such example ever being given anywhere in the NT.

Finally, and likely a subject for a new topic.

When Jesus was baptized and the Holy Spirit descended ... Math 3:16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. 17 And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."

Did the Holy Spirit only touch Him or did it indwell Him?

We are not told anything about Jesus being indwelt by the Holy Spirit.  I believe that the miracles that Jesus performed were performed through the empowering of the Holy Spirit. That was true for any and all miracles performed by human beings. And we are not told otherwise concerning Jesus.

[Rella]

duplicate reply

[Rella]

I am replying to your reply (thank you) of only the first part. The rest is not so important.

I had asked

Quote from: Rella on Yesterday at 07:47:14

Please explain where and why 1 Cor 7:14-16 fits in with Baptism saving.

You replied

Looking at the passage, I am not sure what your question is.  The subject of baptism doesn't come up in anywhere in that passage. 1 Corinthians 7:1-16 is basically about marriage, particularly when the marriage involves the paring of a believer with an unbeliever.

Since the subject of so many Grace Centered threads ( theological) moves into the (paraphrasing)...born again benefits of baptism.... As in Mark 16:16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

And there have been many, right here on GC who live and breath and teach this as the only way....

THIS IS MY QUESTION.

I want to know how it is that in 1 Cor 7: 1-16 married people are told

14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy.

15 Yet if the unbelieving one leaves, let him leave; the brother or the sister is not under bondage in such cases, but God has called us to peace.

16 For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?

Seems fairly clear that if you are married to an unbeliever ( would that not include one who was never immersed?) that the spouse may save the unbeliever?

Also, the children who would have been unholy, will be holy if they remain married. The unbeliever with the believer.

And if you say that this only says... For how do you know, whether you will save

Re:read 1 Cor 7: 14  For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy.

If being married to an immersed believer that will sanctify you, verse 16  suggests that the spouse may be the instrument that saves and not that of either faith or immersion.

[4WD]

I don't really have a good strong answer for you.  However, I would say, without fear of contradiction, that no person can be the instrument that saves. That is wholly reserved for God.  I think the sanctifying that is being spoken of is not the sanctifying of salvation, but rather it is speaking of the "sanctity of marriage" as established by God; it is a ceremonial dedication.  Matthew 23 speaks of sanctifying gold and other gifts.  1 Timothy 4:5 speaks of sanctifying food. I also think that verse 16 is in reference to the believing spouse bringing the unbelieving spouse to the point of believing, at which time he or she is in a position for being saved by God.

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

I don't really have a good strong answer for you.  However, I would say, without fear of contradiction, that no person can be the instrument that saves. That is wholly reserved for God.  I think the sanctifying that is being spoken of is not the sanctifying of salvation, but rather it is speaking of the "sanctity of marriage" as established by God; it is a ceremonial dedication.  Matthew 23 speaks of sanctifying gold and other gifts.  1 Timothy 4:5 speaks of sanctifying food. I also think that verse 16 is in reference to the believing spouse bringing the unbelieving spouse to the point of believing, at which time he or she is in a position for being saved by God.

I find that the Bible is clearer when I view salvation as a process that lasts a lifetime, as opposed to just the event that begins that process.

With that in mind, it makes sense to me that a married person traveling the straight and narrow might drag their spouse onto that path with them.

Jarrod

[4WD]

I find that the Bible is clearer when I view salvation as a process that lasts a lifetime, as opposed to just the event that begins that process.

I certainly agree with that.

With that in mind, it makes sense to me that a married person traveling the straight and narrow might drag their spouse onto that path with them.

I am not sure how that would work.  I could imagine the Christian spouse could be a good example for and teach the nonbelieving spouse. From there it is up to the spouse to choose to believe or not and then to proceed on the basis of that belief.  If that is what you mean, then I certainly agree with that as well.

[yogi bear]

I understood that to be what he meant and I agree totally with that and it appears to me that is what Paul was trying to convey as well.

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

I am not sure how that would work.  I could imagine the Christian spouse could be a good example for and teach the nonbelieving spouse. From there it is up to the spouse to choose to believe or not and then to proceed on the basis of that belief.  If that is what you mean, then I certainly agree with that as well.

Well, I reckon married couples want to live their lives together. 

So, if the unbelieving spouse in this hypothetical example is living out their life beside someone who is living in obedience to God... then they will be doing the right things, even if it's not exactly because they believe. 

Now, I believe that what is good and evil becomes clearer the more one does the right thing (and less clear as one does wrong).  So then, what's the natural consequence of continually doing right for our hypothetical husband or wife?  They will come to the knowledge of the truth.  It's an eventuality.

The only way something else will happen, is if they choose NOT to go together with their believing spouse.  Or, as Paul says... if they wanna go, let 'em go.

Jarrod

[Rella]

Well, You all gave me more clarity in these verses .

14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy.

This is clear... We all know that Sanctified does not mean saved..... But may, in this case put one in line to get to that point?

16 is what was confusing... and even though Paul said it was he not God who said these things I could not make it fit.

16 For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?

How do you knw whether you will save. Of course the spouse does not save, but the spouse can be the one that could get
his/her spouse in the position of wanting to be saved.

Saved.

[e.r.m.]

Deleted.