Pornography and Addiction

[James Rondon]

I recently purchase several copies of the mini-booklet, "Escape the Trap", which deals with the issue of pornography, and sinful lust.

It is an excellent booklet, and is set up in an easy to read, "comic like" format. You can read the booklet online by clicking on the following link: Escape the Trap

[admin]

Okay, I rebuilt this topic...so you can reply now. I'm sorry that the old posts were lost when the message board was upgraded.

Lee

[Johnb]

Among my many sins this has never been a big one for me.  I have never quite understood the books or the stripper show.  It always reminded me of being a kid in a candy store and no money to buy candy with;  Whats the point?  I guess all have their weak points.  Later Johnb

[janine]

I haven't been much for the porn mags and strippers either. :p

[James Rondon]

Among my many sins this has never been a big one for me.

Unfortunately, it has been for me. But by the grace of God, I have been able to overcome...  

[Johnb]

james said
Unfortunately, it has been for me. But by the grace of God, I have been able to overcome...  

James it does not make me a better person perhaps even worse.  While you struggle with the image my struggles have always been with the reality.  Johnb

[James Rondon]

Some sad, sobering facts: Click here.

[Cliftyman]

As I walked through Walgreens the other day to buy a December issue of KY Game and Fish for my brother-in-law... (were gonna get him a subscription but we wanted to get him a tangible something for the present), I was shocked at all the filth I saw in the magazine aisle.

Magazines you wouldn't even think would or should have scantily clad women on them had them.  Its really ridiculous, every where I turn I see people capitalizing (NPI) on people's pocket book through coersion through sex.

Whats sad is some of those images stick with you... you catch yourself taking another glance, then maybe another.  How many men and women might find themselves picking that magazine up and taking it home because a picture on the front excited them.

Then they get a subscription and a seemingly tame picture by the world's standards becomes the ignition to deciding to get a Sports Illustrated swimsuit edition, then looking a softcore porn on the web or watching it on premium cable... then at that point whats the point stopping it... investing in hardcore porn.

Guys and gals, we have to be on guard for this stuff.  The country we live in and the world are attacking us from all angles and we aren't even aware.  We NEVER hear this type of stuff preached from the pulpit and even some of our fellow brothers and sisters act like were prudes when we do.

Well let me tell you something, this 27 year old is gonna preach it to somebody, whether they want to hear it or not, because its effected me and I HATE its effects!

[Cliftyman]

BTW I heard the other day that Italy began taxing porn in their country and they are making a killing on it.

How do you think that would fly in the US?

[boringoldguy]

It's already taxed, Clifty.   If you bought one of those magazines you saw at Walgreen's,  you'd pay sales tax on it.

The taxes on liquor don't keep folks from drinking hooch.  The taxes on cigarettes don't keep folks from smoking.   The lottery doesn't keep people from being stupid.
Taxing things doesn't make them go away.

[tidbit]

The taxes on liquor don't keep folks from drinking hooch.  The taxes on cigarettes don't keep folks from smoking.   The lottery doesn't keep people from being stupid.
Taxing things doesn't make them go away.

Are you saying a tax on pornography wouldn't cure blindness?

:D

[Follower the Heaven Bound]

Ya know, I HATE the effects of it! And I wont STAND for it! They say, "Well, sure, I don't WANT TO, but I just cant stop!!" Uh-huh.....sure.... WHAT STOPS YOU?WHAT??? I hate it! FAMILIES, HOMES, COUNTRIES CITIES SOULS ARE DESTROYED BY THE MESS WE CALL A GOOD TIME! I am just 10. But I will yell until I am 200 against the sickening killing of people's souls by this... this.... EVIL! I don't know about you, GC, I don't know about you world, I don't know about you, but I AM GOING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS! Even if it stops one person! THAT IS ONE MORE PERSON STOPPED. I DONT KNOW ABOUT YOU, BUT I WILL TAKE A STAND! THIS 10 YEAR OLD WILL DO ALL HE CAN TO DO SOMETHING ABOU THIS SINFUL DRIVING OF LUST AND EVIL!
I WILL PREACH IT! I WILL DO All  I CAN! WHY DO I CARE?! WHY DO I CARE?! BECAUSE ITS MY WORLD TOO!



With Blessings,
Brother Zach T.

[admin]

Ya know, I HATE the effects of it! And I wont STAND for it! They say, "Well, sure, I dont WANT TO, but I just cant stop!!" Uh-huh.....sure.... WHAT STOPS YOU?WHAT??? I hate it! FAMILIES, HOMES, COUNTRIES CITIES SOULS ARE DESTROYED BY THE MESS WE CALL A GOOD TIME! I am just 10. But I will yell until I am 200 against the sickening killing of people's souls by this... this.... EVIL! I dont know about you, GC, I dont know about you world, I dont know about you, but I AM GOING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS! Even if it stops one person! THAT IS ONE MORE PERSON STOPPED. I DONT KNOW ABOUT YOU, BUT I WILL TAKE A STAND! THIS 10 YEAR OLD WILL DO ALL HE CAN TO DO SOMETHING ABOU THIS SINFUL DRIVING OF LUST AND EVIL!
I WILL PREACH IT! I WILL DO All  I CAN! WHY DO I CARE?! WHY DO I CARE?! BECAUSE ITS MY WORLD TOO!

With Blessings,
Brother Zach T.

Yes Follower, lusting over the people in pornography is wrong. Certainly. But based on the research we've done at Family Dynamics Institute, we've determined that it is more of a trap. Often fallen into by one whose spouse is not fulfilling him (or her) sexually. Think about it. The porn people don't say "no." They don't give "pity sex." They act happy to see you and for a brief moment, the viewer has peace. The person who he "forsook" all others for has left you trapped because your only moral option for sexual fulfillment is forsaking YOU.

Morally wrong? Yes. But have a little pity on the sinner. I struggled with this a long time ago but overcame through the power of God and a spouse who understood that she needed to help pull me out of the trap and keep me out by filling that hole in my life. Porn was a counterfit of what I needed.

The pornography trap is not only snatching men up. About 40 percent of pornography "addicts" are female. You'd be shocked at how much of the porn world would disappear if men and women would dedicate themselves to sexually fulfilling their spouse.

Lee

PS--Do us sticklers a favor and use the SPELL CHECK feature.

[Follower the Heaven Bound]

Sorry. I know how to spell the words but I am in such a hurry at times that I don't bother to correct the typing errors!

[BH]

What exactly is pornography anyway?

Is it the naked women you see in National Geographic?

OR

Is it the no holds barred show all the details sexual encounter caught on film?

What about art or Greek sculptures?

Even back in Bible days the slaves went around with their butts showing

I know that in some European countries it is not considered immoral for women to walk around without their shirts and bras on.  Same goes for African countries.

[janine]

Context of culture means something, BH.

And yes, Admin, out of love and concern for a spouse there needs to be lots and lots and lots of good ol' fulfilling of needs and filling of holes in lives.  Yup.  Surely.  No argument with that.

The same way a spouse of a diabetic needs to think in terms of shopping for healthier dessert alternatives.  The same way the spouse of an alcoholic needs to consider carefully whether to make carrot cake or raisin rum cake.

Oh, but let's not put the responsibility on the spouse when one partner takes up porn-viewing.  Don't do it.   

[Trinity]

I do have to admit, I have seen it before.  More than once.  It absolutely disgusts me to no end.  My husband was into that at one time, and I just hated for it to even be shown on my television.  I thought that I was dirty because of it.

Since then, God has delivered him from that.  So now, it has all been thrown in the trash, Glory to God!!!  I never enjoyed watching it and I think that it is nasty and degrading to both women and men.

I just pray those who are addicted are released of that addiction soon.  It is pure evil!

[FFC]

What exactly is pornography anyway?

Is it the naked women you see in National Geographic?

OR

Is it the no holds barred show all the details sexual encounter caught on film?

What about art or Greek sculptures?


Even back in Bible days the slaves went around with the butts showing

I know that in some European countries it is not considered immoral for women to walk around without their shirts and bras on.  Same goes for African countries.

I think pornography is any sexually explicit pictures or videos geared to arouse the viewer. If naked aborigines in National Geographic or Greek statues do that to you then the problem is not the subject matter. I have a hard enough time keeping my mind from straying into sexual matters just getting through my day without fueling the fire with porn. 

[James Rondon]

I just pray those who are addicted are released of that addiction soon.  It is pure evil!

[phoebe]

"Often fallen into by one whose spouse is not fulfilling him (or her) sexually."

What a lousy excuse. Porn, like all other sins, is about self-centeredness. It's a feel-good drug, and  becomes an addiction like a drug. Continued use of pornography actually changes the brain chemicals, as meth changes the brain of its user.

And, what of the single person? Does not having a spouse legitimize porn? Definitely not. That's how we end up with deviant sexual behavior, child predators, etc.

Don't make excuses for users of porn. Ever.

[slu-magoo]

Don't make excuses for users of porn. Ever.

I would say that until you have walked a mile in their shoes, you are in no place to make such harsh statements.

Regards.

[James Rondon]

Then I will say it.

[phoebe]

Of interest: A new store has opened next door to the place where we meet and worship (aka, "church building"). It's an adult store. They sell all sorts of porn and ... we'll call them "aids". Is making a living a legitimate excuse for their business? The "business" involves those who create it, pose/perform for it, package it, deliver it, sell it. Which one of these does it benefit? Try to imagine their towering billboard.

Don't make excuses for users of porn. Ever.

I would say that until you have walked a mile in their shoes, you are in no place to make such harsh statements.

Regards.

slu-magoo - You know what shoes I've walked in, do you?

What possible excuse could there be for pornography?

"My wife doesn't...."?  waa.
"I'm all alone"?    more waa.
"Need to make a sperm donation"?  waa, waa, waa.

I stand by my statement.

(Let's be clear on one thing. I said there was no excuse for it. I did not say it was unforgivable sin.)

p.s. Does anyone not see this as being the total opposite of what Jesus says in Matthew 5:28 about looking + lusting = adultery?

[janine]

Maybe we need to get someone who has walked in those depressing shoes to say it for us, Phoebe.  Someone with the "street cred".

Or maybe since we're talking porn, the "sheet cred".

[BH]

Don't make excuses for users of porn. Ever.

I would say that until you have walked a mile in their shoes, you are in no place to make such harsh statements.

Regards.

I have a friend who is a stripper in a Dallas night club.  She has children she has to take care of. Her husband ran off on her a year ago and hasn't been back since.  No one would give her a job that paid more than $6.50 an hour What she makes as a stripper (which is pretty good) is far more than that.  I've even thought about opening up a porn site on the net because the money is so good, and she has even considered posing on it if it doesn't violate her labor agreements with her employer.


I went to college earning a four year degree and made it half way through a Masters program. Now, I'm not going to claim to be some genius, but I am not an idiot by any means and there is no greater slap in my face than to have to take jobs that pay only seven dollars an hour and lose out on promotions to people who can't write three words in a row without spelling one of them wrong. When I was a Central Checkout Manager for several grocery store locations in Texas it simply amazed me how ignorant most people were in the management training classes I had to take.  They couldn't even do simple math and even seemed illiterate in some cases.  Yet these are the people I am losing out to though.  The problem isn't me nor will I EVER acknowledge it to be me--it's the leadership of various companies problem who prefer morons to fill their positions.


I mean, look at the state of the world.  The Soviet Union is dead and gone, and let's face it--it will never be back.  So I can't count on communism improving my lot (either directly or indirectly) and what countries that still hold to it aren't going to be around much longer.  None of my relatives are in any position to serve as a possible connection as far as employment goes.  Even if I went back to the church no one is going to give me any loyalty employment wise just because we are both Church of Christ (the supposed great baduka one true church)---they'd just assume hire some heathen if they thought it would make them a buck.

I'm on my own and I guess I'm just going to have to do some really nasty things just to survive (though not illegal). Tough if what I do leads to a marriage falling apart or a preacher losing his job like I hear happens sometime.

[slu-magoo]

slu-magoo - You know what shoes I've walked in, do you?

What possible excuse could there be for pornography?

"My wife doesn't...."?  Crying and sad. waa.
"I'm all alone"?  Crying and sad. Crying and sad.  more waa.
"Need to make a sperm donation"?  Crying and sad. Crying and sad. Crying and sad. waa, waa, waa.

I stand by my statement.

(Let's be clear on one thing. I said there was no excuse for it. I did not say it was unforgivable sin.)

p.s. Does anyone not see this as being the total opposite of what Jesus says in Matthew 5:28 about looking + lusting = adultery?

Are you always so unmerciful? 

Of course, viewing pornography is a sin; no one here (save for Barry, I suppose) would disagree.  But the Christian answer for this sin/addiction is not mocking and belittling the sinner/addict.  The Christian answer is that there is a balm in Gilead, that Christ died for these sins, that there is help available in overcoming addiction.

Words to live by:  Always err on the side of mercy.

And no, you have not walked a mile in anyone else's shoes but your own.  You are not privy to the details of everyone else's problems.  Different people become addicted to different things for different reasons. 

Always err on the side of mercy.

Regards.

[phoebe]

slu-magoo -

I am not "unmerciful". Saying there is no excuse for it does not make me "unmerciful". One cannot make porn smell nice, no matter how one dresses it up. How do you know that this has not been my personal struggle? You don't. You prefer sugar-coating sin? Sugar-coating this sin by referring to it as a "trap" takes the burden and blame off the responsibility of the one doing the sin, doesn't it?

My niece strips in a joint down the road from me. She has a gorgeous 5 year old daughter. She has taught her "the moves". Pretty sight, huh? She could get another job, but none that pay several hundered dollars an hour, so why should she? As long as there are patrons, she will continue this life. Or until they tell her she's too old, which will come sooner than she thinks.

I am realistic. It is sin first. Continuing in the sin  becomes  the addiction.

If you believe there is an excuse for pornography, I would like to hear it.

[slu-magoo]

I have not excused pornography.

I have expressed concern and compassion for those whose lives have been caught up in addiction. 

I won't waste anymore time trying to persuade you to do so.

Regards.

[admin]

Speaking as someone who works at a marriage ministry and looks at research, statistics and individual cases, I can tell you without doubt, pornography addiction usually occurs because sexual needs are not being met. Many times society discounts that God-embedded need, but it is most certainly there and is nearly as strong as the need to eat.

Quite simply, when that need is not met by a spouse, it will be met somewhere else. Sometimes it's an affair. Sometimes it pornography. Sometimes it is simply hatred of the withholding spouse.

You might look at it this way, if you were starving to death...let's say you haven't eaten in 2 weeks. You might eat something that is very unhealthy for you. Let's say it's some old spam meat that is 6 months past it's shelf date. You know it's not good for you, but you are so hungry that you have to eat.

I'm not justifying. Sin is sin. A porn addict owns his own sin and no one else. But sometimes, a withholding spouse is at least partly responsible for the condition developing. That's why Paul tells us to "Fullfill our marital duty (sex) to our spouse because of our lack of self control" and "because there is so much immorality" (1 Corinthians 7).

Notice that he says, "fulfill." Not just giving a small amount. Not just "some." But to FULFILL. To make his/her dreams come true in that area. Lacking or wanting for nothing. It's that important according to Paul who was inspired by the Holy Spirit.

I say this from 6 years working at Family Dynamics Institute. We work with close to 20,000 married couples per year and the studies from those (now about 150,000 after 11 years) tell us a great deal. I don't make this up or slant it, it's just what is there.

Porn addicts need to be held accountable. They need to be given strict rules. I even reccomend having the Internet screened by software or by another person when the porn offender is on line. But the porn addict needs to have his/her emotional stomach filled with plenty of food from the person who has the duty and privilege to provide it. Fill the hole in his or her heart with something good (the good form of what he/she is craving) to overcome the porn addiction.

Sorry this post was so long.

Lee

[boringoldguy]

Speaking as someone who works at a marriage ministry and looks at research, statistics and individual cases, I can tell you without doubt, pornography addiction usually occurs because sexual needs are not being met.

I've really not wanted to get into this discussion,  but this passage brings up questions that come to mind over and over when people make an argument based on statistics.

1.   What statistics tell you this?
2.    How were these statistics gathered?     
3.    Is this based upon surveys of porn viewers?   In other words,  did they ask porn viewers "Why do you look at porn?"
4.   Was there any survey of the alleged non-fulfilling partners?
5.   Who made the determination that the need wasn't being met?   Is that a subjective judgment by one or both of the spouses?   Or are there some objective criteria related to frequency of intercourse and/or other factors?    If there are objective criteria,  how were they developed?

I can just see how with some couples,   one partner might think their sexual relation was arid and unsatisfying, while the other one might think they were making out like otters.    Who's to decide who's right in that situation?

[admin]

Speaking as someone who works at a marriage ministry and looks at research, statistics and individual cases, I can tell you without doubt, pornography addiction usually occurs because sexual needs are not being met.

I've really not wanted to get into this discussion,  but this passage brings up questions that come to mind over and over when people make an argument based on statistics.

1.   What statistics tell you this?
2.    How were these statistics gathered?    
3.    Is this based upon surveys of porn viewers?   In other words,  did they ask porn viewers "Why do you look at porn?"
4.   Was there any survey of the alleged non-fulfilling partners?
5.   Who made the determination that the need wasn't being met?   Is that a subjective judgment by one or both of the spouses?   Or are there some objective criteria related to frequency of intercourse and/or other factors?    If there are objective criteria,  how were they developed?

I can just see how with some couples,   one partner might think their sexual relation was arid and unsatisfying, while the other one might think they were making out like otters.    Who's to decide who's right in that situation?

I'm not sure how much of this I can legally disclose. We have lengthy statements and requirements concerning privacy. But I can tell you that the surveys were of married couples and they (the surveys) are scientifically calculated by respected statisticians at a well respected University. Then the results are studied by relationship experts (PH.Ds) who are able to further examine and translate.

I can just see how with some couples, one partner might think their sexual relation was arid and unsatisfying, while the other one might think they were making out like otters. Who's to decide who's right in that situation?

The one who is unfulfilled. Just like the one who has the need gets to define it. If my spouse has a need for affection and I give her a handshake and then say, "There, I've given you enough affection," she gets to say, "No, you haven't."

The one with the need defines what is enough. Because he/she is the one who is vulnerable to temptation. The apostle Paul said to "fulfill" the other. Only the spouse with the need can tell you when he/she is fulfilled. If they both have the need, then each individual can determine.

[phoebe]

I don't believe these stats are valid, as they only consider married persons, not singles. When one considers the single, these arguments re: "unfulfillment" (whatever that is) do not apply. There isn't one rule for married couples, and another rule for singles. Not when it comes to porn.

Also, consider that one spouse may require something out-of-bounds for "fulfillment", possibly WAY out of bounds. Is the spouse required to "fulfill" the insatiable needs of their partner in order to keep him/her from turning to porn? The answer must be "yes" if one believes this standard. By this standard, the husband has the "right" to demand it if one also believes that the husband is the authority in the home and the wife is to submit.

No, I don't find this a valid argument.

Bottom line is still this: pornography is for the purpose of self-gratification.

I recommend reading "Every Man's Battle" or "Every Young Man's Battle" by Steven Arterburn, even if you are a woman or young woman.

[phoebe]

No, Barry, I meant WAAAAAAAY out of bounds.

It will be interesting to see if they delete your post...

[BH]

No, Barry, I meant WAAAAAAAY out of bounds.

It will be interesting to see if they delete your post...

Ah.  I see.

[spurly]

Barry - It looks like the post was deleted.