New User who would like some advice

[peck]

Jason,
Welcome,I can see that you are a dedicated webmaster.Nice site.Put it in my favorites and will post sometimes.

Sorry that I have no answers for your questions but I know someone here will.

God bless,Charles

[WileyClarkson]

Bob,

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]These people could feel as if they are losing power and are thus insecure. [/quote]

That is actually a major part of this type of problem, from my experience.

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]Growth does not occur as readily in an emotionally charged environment, as people are little embarrased to invite someone in when tensions are high. [/quote]

You sure have that on the money.  That's exactly what happened at "#####" where Linda and I were members before moving to Granbury CoC.  The lack of love and the tension took a 180 avg attendance on Sunday Morning to around 120 in less than 6 months and the last I heard it was around 100.



Jason,

Glad to have you on GCForum!  Good luck with your problems.
Looked at your web site just briefly.  Nice splash page.  I do the site for http://www.Granburycoc.org and also have my own site http:/www.clarksons.org.  Wish I had some suggestions but I don't.

God bless.

Wiley

[janine]

Welcome, dear!

You have my sympathy.  There is no group of people with no friction, so don't feel like you're beset by a freakish, odd happening.

Bylaws can be a bugaboo.

Here's an idea:  hold a meeting for people who would like to pray about the friction, both together and in a committed way alone.

Find out who will commit to SECRETLY pray for and bless a troublemaker.  You can't let on you're praying for that person, and you can't let it be found out that it was you who sent him/her an inexpensive little gift, a card, a bag of garden produce left on their steps in the night...

This could be done so secretly that they don't even tell that they're doing it, or it could be done in a group with an anonymous sign-up sheet listing who'll pray (but not for whom... if an agitator finds out he's being prayed for, he might get all huffy).

You certainly develop more sympathy/empathy for a person you've comitted to pray for.

[Arkstfan]

Bob I did a sermon last Sunday using Philippians. Our congregation (now just over 8 months old) is preparing for our "grand" opening in September when our auditorium is completed and we are doing a series on "Building Community". Sunday was building community through thanksgiving. (We come together as a group to express thanksgiving to God, to have a healthy community we should give thanks to each other to God for each other, we should give thanks for the challenges and obstacles we face because they present opportunities).

Jakinn I read some of your bulletins and such to get a feel for your congregation. What people are having classes on often gives a good idea of where the body leans.

I am assuming that your congregation is currently moving toward more contemporary style of worship and the focus is switching from "doing the right things" toward "having the right heart". A change in style coupled with a change in how you present God is not conducive to peace. You might be able to handle one but not both at the same time.

Your minister has to take a proactive stance with the board presenting what he sees as problem areas followed by asking what they see as the problems and then trying to set a game plan to address them together. If the minister is just a hired hand taking directions he will not live up to their expectations and he will be frustrated that they don't share his vision.

[janine]

jakinn/Jason:

How's it going?  Anyone hear from him?

JC

[jakinn]

Hello I am in need of some advice and hope someone here could help. I attend and am the webmaster for Highland Christian Chruch. We have a selected few in the congregation who likes to stir up trouble and make things difficult. The way it sounds is almost every congregation has some of these types. How or what do you do to put a stop to it? It has escalated so bad that the preaching minister is close to quittting. One was already ran off several years ago. There is alot of politics involved especially with bi-laws. The board held a special meeting and Keith, the preaching minister, had no idea about it. The meeting was basically what can we do to help make these people, the complainers, happier here at Highland. These people have been around as long as the building has. That is the number one reason they stay...they say it is their building. Anyone have any suggestions on what you may have done or any possible resolution, I don't want to lose Keith because of this nonsense. I understand he isn't going to stay forever and I realize that if God is calling him to move on then he will. Although I don't think he would have even thought about quitting if all this hadn't come about. Any help or comments would be greatly appreciated.

On a lighter note, does anyone have any good ideas or suggestions to help bring more people to your church. We have a very good crowd every Sunday but I would like to try and make it standing room only.  :)  Any help here would be great too.

I have some more questions in which I will post later on. I must say this is my second favorite site now, Highland website is my favorite.  :p  I thank you all for taking the time to read my post and I hope this didn't sound like a complaining session. Looks like alot of people come here and I really need some sound advice, this has been in prayers for many days now. My stumbling upon this site I don't think was an accident but an answer. Thank you all very much.
God Bless you all,
Jason

[nerdneh]

Jason, welcome, sorry to hear you have difficult people there, but it's about par for the course. The other night I was doing a study on Philippians and I find that Paul says, in the first chapter, that we can have joy in spite of:

(1) Difficult circumstances, (The letter is written from jail).

(2) Difficult people, some were preaching from partisan motives and trying to make things more difficult for Paul, as if he did not enough trouble being in jail!).

(3) Even the threat of death itself (for me to live is Christ and to die is gain).

The apostle does not give us the secret on how to control the people who were giving him a hard time. He just turned them over to the Lord and evicted them from his own head.

I suspect you can try praying for them, try to bring in a conflict counselor (have you read the book "Difficult Conversations"?), having a retreat in which leadership honestly airs the differences that are bogging the congregation down, and invite prayerful resolution.

These people could feel as if they are losing power and are thus insecure. They may feel like they are not getting respect from younger members. This tends to make people defensive. If they can be reassured that you all love them and respect them, that may be all they need.

Growth does not occur as readily in an emotionally charged environment, as people are little embarrased to invite someone in when tensions are high. Let the Lord resolve the conflict and I trust you will see some genuine growth.

[Shumby]

A church bulletin that I have access to did this:
(1) The elders had a meeting and discussed what areas needed consideration in maybe making some changes in the goings on in the church (or whatever they said; I can't  remember it exactly).
(2) The elders met with all the men that would consent to join them. Seems they had a good turn out and lots of things were brought up for discussion.
(3) Then the elders met with all the women of the church that would consent to join with them (the elders). Good turn out.
(4)I'm sorry, but I can't remember whether they then all met together or not; but at least the elders had gotten considerable feedback from each group.

[Shumby]

Addendum (sp?) to my last post:
Item #1 should've read as follows:
Elders meet with deacons and work group leaders.
The statement was made, "the elders would like to get some suggestions from you to help us all do a better job of reaching the lost, and buildling up this body. Even if you don't have any suggestions on how to improve our work, or any complaints to air, please try to be present anyway to show your concern for and support of this congregation. The elders hope you come."

[Morris]

Jason,

You've probably already lost this minister; it just isn't final yet.

The board held a special meeting and Keith, the preaching minister, had no idea about it. The meeting was basically what can we do to help make these people, the complainers, happier here at Highland.

If the board's goal, worked out apart from the minister, is to placate the complainers, he's history.

This is a pretty common scenario centered on a control issue.  If you are interested in pursuing this to assist in the future, there are a couple of good sources for your information.  Lyle Shaller is an author who has written extensively on church dynamics.  

He identifies one type of church with control oriented local leadership who periodically (usually every 3 to 5 years) jettison the minister to ensure that no minister has time to develop any sense of strong loyalty or influence with the congregation.  This protects their control.

Also, in congregations it is the power hungry, who usually will play hardball without regard to others' feelings or even ethical considerations.  The more spiritually centered folk are far more likely to be peacemakers than troublemakers.  So, the troublemakers are usually placated and their desires catered to.  This results in negative leadership and churches rarely will grow in such circumstances.  Churches will also only grow when the natural expansion of leadership occurs with growth.  Power hungry folks don't like that and will resist growth while verbalizing a desire to grow.  In reality they do not want the church to get bigger than they can control.  

I am just offering one perspective and it is no better than others offered here, just different.  I would no sooner leave conflict to resolve itself than I would leave evangelism to take care of itself.  God works through people. If we don't reach people the church won't grow.  If we do not manage conflict it won't be resolved.  Additionally, the situation you describe is more than just simple conflict, it is a systemic power struggle.

An additional source on such problems comes from church growth ministries and research.  In short, a church, which has negative leadership must force a change.  A minister cannot do it by himself.  Only when enough people resist the negative onslaught to oust a minister will anything be accomplished.  It will result in the loss of some families, but the church will then be free to move on without their negative leadership.  

That your board is already excluding the minister and moving to placate the complainers is handwriting on the wall.  He needs to get out some resumes.

[spurly]

The elders at the church where I currently serve decided not to be people pleasers anymore, and to follow God where he was leading them and the congregation.  Needless to say, this got some people very upset.  They were used to airing their complaints, and the elders coming to their side and going to bat for them.  That doesn't happen anymore.  Because of that, several people have left to go to another church where they can do that.  (Actually they started another church).  This all happened before I arrived on the scene as the youth minister.  Now the church is full of grace, love, and a genuine seeking after God.  The other church just lost their minister because of the legalism down there.

My suggestion would be to pray for the Lord to change their hearts and give them a genuine compassion and vision for the lost, and if their hearts are hard, pray that the Lord will help them find some place else to worship.  I know that sounds harsh, but I think it is the correct thing to do.

Kevin