dated for 5 years, need advice please :-\

[adon04]

I'm 22 years old; my 'ex'-girlfriend is 20.  We did start dating in high school, I started dating her when I was a Junior, her a Sophomore.  When we first started dating, we were very much involved with Church, going to a youth group together every Wednesday, Church Sunday, and later attended a small group.  To say the least, our relationship for a good 2 or 3 years evolved around Christ.  It's safe to say, our relationship was at its best then.  It was when she was a senior on the Cross Country team, when I heard from her two close friends that she was being 'shady' with another guy.  Long story short, a few lies were told but eventually it was all revealed.

About a year later, she studied abroad in Mexico for 3 weeks.  She came back and all was well until I went to her house to borrow her laptop.  Up was her Facebook inbox with maybe 10-15 messages she was having with a guy she met while in Mexico.  These messages weren't appropriate.  Most of them ended with XOXO, talk to you soon sexy! and what not.  Yes I shouldn't have snooped! But to my defense, it was laid out in front of me!! :)

Let me take a step back...  Melissa and I have been dating for..well..we 'dated' for 5 years this past July 4th.  We've established from the beginning that we wanted to wait for marriage to have sex, and I'm proud to say we have waited thus far.  Our relationship was great, no one could find a happier couple -we even one 'best couple' at our youth group! But, after a few lies here and there, mostly on her part (to be completely honest, yes I've lied in our relationship, but nothing too substantial besides struggles with pornography, and I've recently corrected that wrong in my life).  Really, aside from the messages, it was the kiss she shared with another guy in Mexico, where things started to really crumble..

I gave her loads of crap about it, constantly.  It hurt my feelings soo bad, I pretty much would bring it up anytime she said she was going to go to the movies with some friends if guys were around.  I've called her a slut before, a whore, and I'm not going to say that wasn't wrong or despicable, but I have apologized to both her and God for such insecurities and immaturities.  I didn't break up with her, whether that was right or wrong, despite the dishonesty in Mexico. 

She decided to go to Chile to study abroad, and of course I was selfish, and against it.  Because I, couldn't trust her.  I told her that we should 'take a break' while she was away in chile, but she was confident that nothing would happen in Chile so together, we made a promise that she wouldn't drink or dance with other guys while she was away.  That promise, was my clutch to her honesty..  She later decided I was controlling, and decided about 3 weeks in to not stick to the promise.

After much heartbreak, and feeling she lacked the committment, I finally came to my senses.  You can't keep a dog caged up forever.  In fact, even though my promise may or may not have been lawful, I finally realized my flaws in forgiveness.  "If your brother sins against you 7 times in a day and repents 7 times, forgive them".  This verse changed my life.  I now understand what it means to forgive someone, and it wasn't anything she could have done to rid the jealousy in my heart, my youth pastor told me "only God can change her, only God can change you".  And those words speak worlds to me now. 

When she came back, to prove I forgave her, I wasn't going to bring anything up, not what happened in Chile, Mexico, or anything from the past.  I was ready to start over.  The forgiveness she always tried so hard for, I was finally laying out on the table.  But sometime between her message the day before she came back, which was "i am so excited to see you tomorrow!" and 3 PM when she got home, she decided she wanted to be single..

My ex, told me she wanted to experience single life, because she admitted, she does like to flirt.  And my view, is 'who doesn't'? It's the intentions of flirting that make it wrong, not flirting itself.  She says she still loves me very much! but she wants to date other guys, to make sure I'm the one.  But, I'm having trouble seeing how dating other guys, can 'fix' or help our relationship in any way.

To make this short(er), I couldn't possibly tell you how God has changed my life within the last few months with Melissa being away.  I have written pages in my journal about how God has changed me for the better.  I absolutely have no regrets for Melissa breaking up with me, or her breaking the promise!  I have learned so much through the struggle, and feel I've become wiser because of it!  But I know, Melissa being off at College, that her friends aren't Christian.  Some of them are involved with the drinking scene, and have dated several people, and had sex.  But, if I wasn't speaking as someone who loves her, but as her best friend, I can't see her life with Christ strengthening being away from me, or at school.  And I don't know what to do..  I've been giving her space, but I feel if I become too distant, her relationship with God will suffer also.  Now I know, some things need to be discovered on your own.. just like my renewed relationship with Christ!  But I see this going towards a downward spiral path...  Being single, I'm totally for! It allowed much time for God and I.  But dating others, and going through more heartbreaks, and giving a part of yourself physically and emotionally to others, doesn't seem rational if she plans to ever date me again, does it?But when I asked Melissa if she wanted to be my accountability partner, that is, ask her every few weeks how God has effected her life / and vice versa - she seemed reluctant..

So I guess I'm wondering.  Is there justice in dating other people to find out if the one you're with is the one, if you still love the person?  Melissa has apologized sincerely about her experiences in Mexico, and has shown many actions to prove it.  And forgiveness is where I fell, and I feel I'm not given the opportunity to prove it.  Because honestly, it doesn't matter what we're doing to have a great time, I'll even watch greys anatomy with her and LOVE every second of it! (not the show but..)  We always have a great time just, making cookies and enjoying the simple parts of life.  Life without lust, but with friendship and love.  She texted me the day she broke up with me "remember I love you still, even though I can't be with you right now". 

The last key factor, is her mom.  Her mom isn't a Christian really, at all..  Her mom has been married 3 times, and her current marriage (though I'm not one to judge) seems difficult, you'll hear that from her, her brother and her mom.  Her mom has called me twice now, and spoke with me for an hour and a half about how her daughter needs.. space, time alone, single.. whatever.  I feel she's taking advice from her mom, in fact I know she has taken advice from her mom.. From someone with not the best track record..

Does it make sense for her to want to date other guys, if only for her to fully appreciate our relationship? or any relationship?  If so, what should I do about me feeling her relationship with God may becoming more distant?  Just wait? Give her space? Or would I be giving up my responsibility as a Christian?  I wouldn't ever want to force God into anyone's life, but am I wrong to want to nudge a little? :)

Thanks if you actually read all that! I really appreciate ANY advice you have on the subject!!

[Mac]

Of course I am sure you will get differing opinions than mine, but the way I see it, If you love some one, you love them....You do not need to "date" others to ensure that fact...

What she is doing is, enjoying her youth...She wants to make sure she can say, I did this and that...She doesn't want to look back and say, "What if?" And if she happens to run across something better, she will take that path...Sorry to say that, but that is what people date for....

In my opinion, she is not sure she loves you...If she was in love with you, well, she would love you...Period...I love my wife..I loved her when I was dating her...Had many opportunities to "date" others while I was seeing her...But I didn't...Why? Because I love her..

Whether you want to admit it or not, you seem to be looking for ways to be associated with her...Friends, accountability partner, etc...I like the idea of an accountability partner..However, it should be with someone who has a neutral stance in your life..As much as you want to be "fair", it will be hard for you to do that with her...If she started sharing with you things that you didn't like hearing...All bets are off so to speak...The likelyhood of her being completely honest with you about things would be small..I say that only because she would probably leave out things she knows would bother you....That is why I say, an accountability partner is good, but you shouldn't be hers..Maybe her pastor or a mutual friend...You miss this girl..Hard for you to be impartial...

As far as the Mother goes, she definitely is listening to her...You can rest assured she is telling her daughter not to rush into anything...Good advice...Make sure he is the right one...Weeeeeell,Good advice on it's face. But at who's cost do you try and "ensure" your making the right decision? Yours, that's who's...Melissa is depending on you to be there for her in the event she doesn't find anything better....Sorry to say that, but it is what it is....The question is, will you wait? Will you be there? That is for you to decide.

What would she do if you dated other women?

If she is hanging with the wrong crowd, that is going to back fire on her eventually.

Finally, you can't force God on her..I know you said that, but you need to understand what you said.. You can pray for her...Pray hard and often...But SHE has to make the decision to do what is right..She has to make the choices...Drink or not...Sex or not..Kissing or not...And the sad fact is, if she puts herself in bad positions, a bad decision is more than likely going to happen...Most people who are running from the Lord only run harder and faster if nudged...Plant the seeds...God will tend to the garden..

I hate to sound so, Debbie downer here. But you need to hear the truth here. Not fantasy. Now, having written all that, if you decide you want to wait on her, then do it...But do it understanding what's at stake here..She may very well meet someone and move on..She may not...Only God knows...I think the best course of action here is to leave her alone..Give her space..No phone calls, visits, etc... Let her initiate contact...Stay in prayer...God knows your desires in this matter..But praying about it helps...On a positive note, I am glad you have found true forgiveness with the Lord's help..It is very liberating to do that...

God bless,
Mac

[Imabear]

Mac is right. (as usual) 
She sounds like she wants to play the field for a while, to have some fun. 

As far as you are concerned I think you should follow Mac's advice.  Pray for her.  Pray for God to lead you too. 
Also I'd recommend that you spend sometime with some good solid Christian friends.  Don't isolate yourself waiting for her to change her mind.  I really don't get the feeling that she is trustworthy.  My gut instinct is that God has someone better in mind for you.

:)

God Bless

[adon04]

Wow, thanks so much for the reading all that! And the thorough replies. 

Yeah all my friends (and hers) have been telling me to break up with her for a while now heh.  But to put it quite simply, I love her.  I know, every idiot can say they love somebody, but really do.  And I know she loves me too.  After the incident in mexico, she made some extreme efforts to apologize.  She decorated my ceiling with stars that spelled out "you're the best part of my life" with surrounding balloons written with reasons she likes me.  There's other stuff she's done too, and these actions to me, make it clear she does love me and she does feel bad for what she did.  I guess I feel, yes I should break up with her because she obviously has problems with honesty.  But, I don't know - a bird has to fall to learn how to fly.  I feel Chile was reaching our rock bottom, and was what was needed for me to not only become closer to God, but understand true forgiveness. 

One of Melissa's friends also went through the same period.  She was dating this guy for 3 years, and she said to him "i'm pretty sure i'll marry you some day, but i want to see what else is out there and date other people".  Long story short, she dated 2 other guys, then went back to her original bf of 3 years and.. nope, he wasn't for it.  I just spoke with her a few days ago, and even though she's with another guy now, she said still regrets doing it.

I don't see how dating other people can fix or help a relationship..  By proving he's the right one or whatever.  Because of exactly what Mac said.  But she (Melissa) gets upset when I tell her things like "you probably don't want to do this if you ever plan on being with me".  But I feel that's true, because dating other guys will only create more baggage.

[Mac]

Yeah all my friends (and hers) have been telling me to break up with her for a while now heh.  But to put it quite simply, I love her.  I know, every idiot can say they love somebody, but really do. 

I understand how you feel...And you are not an idiot for saying you love her..

And I know she loves me too. 

No, you hope she does...But, you can't know how she feels...She doesn't even know how she feels right now...As I stated before, if you love someone, you love them..Do not need to "make sure"...You either do or don't. It is that simple..Please understand I say all of this with love in my heart...You just need to hear it...

After the incident in mexico, she made some extreme efforts to apologize.  She decorated my ceiling with stars that spelled out "you're the best part of my life" with surrounding balloons written with reasons she likes me.  There's other stuff she's done too, and these actions to me, make it clear she does love me and she does feel bad for what she did. 

Adon04, you are trying to convince yourself of this..Her mouth says one thing but her actions do another..Remember the saying; Actions speak louder than words...When people are caught red handed in a lie, they will do a lot of things to "redeem" themselves...I have been through this...You yourself said you gave her a lot of "crap" about it...She probably feels guilty for it and doesn't want to hurt you again. She did not tell you willingly..You found out on your own...You said, "all was well" until you found the stuff on the lap top. More than likely, she regrets being caught not the fact she did what she did...I know this is tough to hear, but I have been where you are...We tend to "force" our wants and our desired outcome into a situation by avoiding the obvious at times.

She lied...She got caught...She feels bad for what she did...But she acted NO differently until you found out...That should tell you something...Is it worldly sorrow or Godly sorrow? Is she upset that she has messed up your relationship? No. She is upset that you are upset..Yes...That is what she was telling you with all the stars and You are the best part of my life stuff...Big difference. She wants to see other people..That is a very telling action.

Look, my first wife told me all the same things after I caught her in an affair...She was very upset that I found out..She went out of her way to "prove" to me how sorry she was...The perfect wife...Cooking, cleaning, trying to have sex with me..Which by the way, I couldn't for a while because of the affect it had on me....She went to great lengths to "prove to me" how sorry she was...In the end, she was sorry she was caught.. That was all..She desperately tried to restore our relationship to the pre-affair state. I too, wanted her and loved her...I too, waited for her to make her decision...Only he made it for her..She was pregnant..With his child and he kicked her to the curb. I took her back because of all the same things you said and are saying...She "proved" to me how sorry she was....And you know what it got me? Another 5 years of her cheating and having one more child from an affair..Man, when I say I have been there....I have been there...

Only the Lord knows what she is or isn't. But, she is not trying to mend..She is trying to test the market so to speak...Her actions prove that...

I guess I feel, yes I should break up with her because she obviously has problems with honesty.  

Ummm, yep..Unequally yoked my friend...

But, I don't know - a bird has to fall to learn how to fly.  I feel Chile was reaching our rock bottom, and was what was needed for me to not only become closer to God, but understand true forgiveness.   

She doesn't need to learn at your expense...An old saying here;

If you love something set it free...If it comes back it is yours. If it doesn't, it never was....

Truer words have never been spoken by a simple man.

One of Melissa's friends also went through the same period.  She was dating this guy for 3 years, and she said to him "i'm pretty sure i'll marry you some day, but i want to see what else is out there and date other people".  Long story short, she dated 2 other guys, then went back to her original bf of 3 years and.. nope, he wasn't for it.  I just spoke with her a few days ago, and even though she's with another guy now, she said still regrets doing it.

Yep, she will regret it..Why? That is a whole other reason...My ex-wife regrets...But mostly because she see's what I have now compared to what she has.. i.e.  The Lord, happiness, love, etc...

I don't see how dating other people can fix or help a relationship..  By proving he's the right one or whatever.  Because of exactly what Mac said.  But she (Melissa) gets upset when I tell her things like "you probably don't want to do this if you ever plan on being with me".  But I feel that's true, because dating other guys will only create more baggage.

Again, she can't..And a past (made without you in it) will definitely be baggage...

Pray for wisdom here. The Lord may very well be showing you already what you need to do...Asking is easy...Doing what is right is the hard part sometimes..

God bless,
Mac

[naarah bet-Melek]

Its sad...but the truth is some girls choose to crash and burn just so they can say they went for the ride. The best you can do is love her unconditionally and that's gonna take some severe armor by the sound of it right now. In the end she will probably regret her decisions and once she hits the bottom of this ride she's gonna look back and see you and who she could have been in Christ instead of the lifestyles of her mother's footsteps. Girls can play the prodigal son too and it sounds like that's what she's up to. Its probably a waiting game from here on out. If you love something...let it go...if it comes back...I have a hard time believing after a relationship like the one you had wont be the first thing she'll want to run back too. Pray real hard for her and maybe send in some re-enforcements from your past youth group who can give her the love of God every once in a while just so she doesn't forget. You should probably step back and see if after a couple of months of not hearing from you her heart does grow fonder.

[adon04]

Hey, thanks so much for the replies guys!  It's just frustrating because I'm not given the opportunity to show how God has changed me for the better!!  This is the first time in my life, I'm reading the bible because I want to, not because I feel I should..  I'm reading and wanting to read more and more, it's a new experience for me :)

I just know if she gave me one more chance, that her confusions would be thrown out the window.  I wouldn't worry about her hangin with other guys because I can know, no one else out there can treat her and love her as much as me... 

To her, when I try to explain this I'm being manipulative.  To me, its a promise I know I can keep.  A promise that I can bring her happiness like before, but without issues of trust, privacy, space, and dependency.  It's true you don't know what you have until it's gone.  I've been blessed to be with someone right out of high school, someone not only my best friend but the person I care and love most.  I took it all for granted every time I purposely made her cry, mad, sad, or feel guilty!  I was and still am young, and immature, but I'll no longer let jealousy control me.

Philippians 4:10 "I am not saying this because I am in need, for I have learned to be content whatever the circumstances.  I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty.  I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want.  I can do everything through him who gives me strength."

I'm just going to have to be patient..  not wait but, move on and hope when she's ready, I'll still be ready...

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

If you want advice, I'd say move on.  Not because she doesn't love you, but because you're not mature enough for the relationship yet.  Get your own life figured out first.

When you get to the point where you don't "need" a relationship...then you're ready for a relationship.

Jarrod

[Seeking]

Hey, thanks so much for the replies guys!  It's just frustrating because I'm not given the opportunity to show how God has changed me for the better!!  ...

I just know if she gave me one more chance, that her confusions would be thrown out the window.  I wouldn't worry about her hangin with other guys because I can know, no one else out there can treat her and love her as much as me... 

To her, when I try to explain this I'm being manipulative.  To me, its a promise I know I can keep.  A promise that I can bring her happiness like before, but without issues of trust, privacy, space, and dependency.  It's true you don't know what you have until it's gone.  I've been blessed to be with someone right out of high school, someone not only my best friend but the person I care and love most.  I took it all for granted every time I purposely made her cry, mad, sad, or feel guilty!  I was and still am young, and immature, but I'll no longer let jealousy control me.

Philippians 4:10 "I am not saying this because I am in need, for I have learned to be content whatever the circumstances.  I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty.  I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want.  I can do everything through him who gives me strength."

I'm just going to have to be patient..  not wait but, move on and hope when she's ready, I'll still be ready...

Adon I am sorry to say this, but each post sounds just a little more desperate.  Hearing your explanations of why "just one more chance and everything would be great" makes me wonder if indeed she is correct that you are being manipulative.  I think at least coercive - you are trying to convince her when she doesn't want to be convinced, and you're not taking 'no' for an answer - which, basically, is manipulation.

When you say "it's frustrating because you're not given the opportunity to show how God's changed you" - who do you need to show it to?  The only one who needs to know it is God, and He already knows.  It sounds to me like you are bearing great guilt for your actions of the past, and almost want her back to redeem yourself.  You don't need her for that.  You don't need that from anyone.  And I'm sure I'm not the only one with a dating history who recognizes the "I still love you but I need to be free" line.  It's a way of keeping you there for backup, which is completely unfair to you and you are allowing it.

It is wonderful how much you have learned and that you truly forgave her, but forgiveness does not mean subjecting yourself to further mistreatment.  You drew boundary lines, she pushed them so you moved them back... it doesn't work like that.  Some boundaries should be clearly defined and non-negotiable.  She has been clear in that she wants to date others and be free, you need to truly hear her and accept it.  I think when you do release these binds that you have upon yourself, that you will rejoice in where God takes you.

[adon04]

Thanks again for all your advice! 

If you want advice, I'd say move on.  Not because she doesn't love you, but because you're not mature enough for the relationship yet.  Get your own life figured out first.

I agree with you Jarrod, I definitely have a lot of room for growth.  It's been some time since I posted this.  And I should mention, things have been great!  No we're not together again, but we have been talking and are friends on good terms.  To my own mistake, I posted else where the positives of everything that has happened and not here.

When you get to the point where you don't "need" a relationship...then you're ready for a relationship.

I agree with this statement completely.  When she was away in Chile, I definitely proved that I needed a relationship.  Now that she's back though, that isn't as much the case. Which is why I mentioned the verse in my last post:  Philippians 4:10 "I am not saying this because I am in need, for I have learned to be content whatever the circumstances."

She broke up with me, which was difficult.  But now I'm so grateful for it!  I felt invincible.  Like I could treat my girlfriend in anyway, because after 5 years, I felt she was always going to be there for me.

The breakup has been a blessing on so many levels.  As many do, I turned to God for desperation. And now, though I'm not in desperation, I still turn to God for hope.  Because I still do love her very much even though we're not together.  But I have learned so much from the separation.  I don't 'expect' us to get back together, but I have hope for a promising future with the lessons I've learned through the obstacles God has put me through!

I think at least coercive - you are trying to convince her when she doesn't want to be convinced, and you're not taking 'no' for an answer - which, basically, is manipulation.

Let me clarify.  I spoke with her once about our breakup, the time she broke up with me.  I did say those things, that the issues we had before would no longer be an issue; and that it was frustrating because I wasn't given the opportunity to show how God has changed me.  But I also told her that us being apart was a great idea -I actually didn't try to convince her of anything.  Since she said she wanted space, I haven't called her once since she broke up with me.  It was difficult after not seeing her for 11 weeks to continue to break contact with her even when she's accessible.

One things for sure, I was wrong when I said "It's frustrating that I'm not allowed to show how God has changed me for the better!!"  Because I am allowed, and I have been showing her.  It's now been 5 weeks since she broke up with me, also 5 weeks since I've tried calling her..  Although... Since she went back to school, she's been calling me every day.  I talk to her, not about anything of significance, but simply as friends.  With the exception of our conversation 2 days ago, when I talked to her she asked "what would you say if I wanted to try one more time?"  I told her "not yet"

She told me, that she does believe me when I say I've learned lessons of forgiveness, of humility, and trust/faithfulness in God.  I'm happy, probably happier than I have been in years; without her -which says something.  I'm not entirely sure what, but that's why I told her "not yet".  Also because I wanted to prove to myself that I could keep my faith, and trust God, by not being with her even though I love her.

You drew boundary lines, she pushed them so you moved them back... it doesn't work like that.

That also isn't true...  I didn't draw any boundaries.  Her not drinking in Chile, and not dancing with other guys, was actually her idea.  I wanted to break up in January months before she left -

I told her that we should 'take a break' while she was away in chile, but she was confident that nothing would happen in Chile

Which was also part of the reason I was so upset when she told me that it was too much.  I understand now I shouldn't have agreed with the boundaries, but they were ones she created.  The problems exceeded beyond the trip to Chile, though I didn't understand that at the time.

To wrap up this post.  Thank you all, very very much for ALL your time and thoughts.  The advice from everyone of you has been invaluable, and I'm happy to say that everything has worked out for the better.  I again, thank God for every single obstacle I'm put through, and walk away with no doubts, and no regrets about the situation.  Thank you all again, and again! :)