follow-up to the unforgivable sin post I made Long but feedback is appreciated!

[volsfan1]

That's what i don't know. Reading blasphemy of the holy spirit doesn't mean much to me because it doesn't get into specifics. Which is why so many people have questioned what it is specifically referring to.

[kensington]

well I guess it just comes down to the fact that I don't know what blasphemy against the  holy spirit means. It's very difficult to convey on a screen and understand it because it's such a confusing subject. I hope I have not committed this sin though and if I have I guess that's that huh?

I am not going to speak to your eternity at all... I'm not God and I am not the Holy Spirit. I only know what the word says.  It's not my judgment that is written in eternity... it is His.  But, you asked what that sin was, and I believe I have explained it rightly for you.  

I do believe as we look more towards the end times, we will see nonbeliever and believers commit that sin.  I believe the church shies away from speaking to this sin, because it is so frightening to think of.  As it should be. But, as the days grow on, we are going to be called witness it happen, and to speak to it.

Do I think you did it?  Not really, because I don't think you really meant it.  I believe that when it happens, those who do it will mean it.  And they won't repent.  The rest, I leave up to a loving God. Peace.

[HRoberson]

That's what i don't know. Reading blasphemy of the holy spirit doesn't mean much to me because it doesn't get into specifics. Which is why so many people have questioned what it is specifically referring to.

I'll help......read the following and then tell me what Jesus is talking about:

Mat 12:22  Then was brought unto him one possessed with a demon, blind and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the dumb man spake and saw.
Mat 12:23  And all the multitudes were amazed, and said, Can this be the son of David?
Mat 12:24  But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This man doth not cast out demons, but by Beelzebub the prince of the demons.
Mat 12:25  And knowing their thoughts he said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
Mat 12:26  and if Satan casteth out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then shall his kingdom stand?
Mat 12:27  And if I by Beelzebub cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges.
Mat 12:28  But if I by the Spirit of God cast out demons, then is the kingdom of God come upon you.
Mat 12:29  Or how can one enter into the house of the strong man, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
Mat 12:30  He that is not with me is against me, and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.
Mat 12:31  Therefore I say unto you, Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men; but the blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.
Mat 12:32  And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him; but whosoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in that which is to come.
Mat 12:33  Either make the tree good, and its fruit good; or make the tree corrupt, and its fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by its fruit.
Mat 12:34  Ye offspring of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
Mat 12:35  The good man out of his good treasure bringeth forth good things: and the evil man out of his evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

[volsfan1]

thank you both for you posts. I do not believe either that if I had committed it I would be worried about it. All I can do is what I can do.

[volsfan1]

it makes it sound as if he is saying speaking out publicly as a witness.

[volsfan1]

here is what I struggle with. I found this in another article.

[Suppose it were taught in Christian circles that thinking of blue giraffes is an unforgivable sin. 'Think once of a blue giraffe and you're eternally dammed.' Every Christian exposed to this teaching would end up thinking of a blue giraffe, since it is a fact of life that the harder anyone tries not to think of something, the more that person will think of it. This is not sinfulness; it is simply how the human mind works.
Do you suppose our Maker doesn't know this? Do you think he's set everyone up to be eternally dammed? That's what you would have to think if you suppose that God treats as unforgivable unwanted thoughts buzzing around in our minds.]

Once I get to thinking about it it's a compulsive thing for me to do.

[HRoberson]

Let's review....

1. People bring some bubba that's been healed
2. The Jewish religious leaders say that the healing was done by the power of the Devil
3. Jesus says, essentially, if you don't want to believe that I've done this, cool; but if you are going to assign the merciful and powerful work of the Spirit to the Devil, you will not be forgiven.

"Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit," in this context isn't doubt, it isn't dying without belief, it is ascribing the work of the Spirit to the Devil.

That's it; there's nothing more to it.

It is a different question to ask, "can we do this today?" or even, "is this sin, despite what Jesus says, actually unforgivable?" or "in what contexts might it be forgivable?"

But none of those change what the sin is.

[HRoberson]

here is what I struggle with. I found this in another article.

[Suppose it were taught in Christian circles that thinking of blue giraffes is an unforgivable sin. 'Think once of a blue giraffe and you're eternally dammed.' Every Christian exposed to this teaching would end up thinking of a blue giraffe, since it is a fact of life that the harder anyone tries not to think of something, the more that person will think of it. This is not sinfulness; it is simply how the human mind works.
Do you suppose our Maker doesn't know this? Do you think he's set everyone up to be eternally dammed? That's what you would have to think if you suppose that God treats as unforgivable unwanted thoughts buzzing around in our minds.]

Once I get to thinking about it it's a compulsive thing for me to do.

You do not need articles to answer your question. You simply need to review the original passage.

[volsfan1]

makes sense hroberson. That post about the blue giraffes sums up how I think when I get to thinking about the unforgivable sin. It's a terrifying thing especially to not know if you have committed it and are already hopeless no matter what. I'm just a compulsive thinker.

I don't think personally if I had committed it though I would be this worried about it. Thank you for your posts.

[kensington]

here is what I struggle with. I found this in another article.

Suppose it were taught in Christian circles that thinking of blue giraffes is an unforgivable sin. 'Think once of a blue giraffe and you're eternally dammed.' Every Christian exposed to this teaching would end up thinking of a blue giraffe, since it is a fact of life that the harder anyone tries not to think of something, the more that person will think of it. This is not sinfulness; it is simply how the human mind works.

Once I get to thinking about it it's a compulsive thing for me to do.

You hit the nail on the head as to why the body of Christ does not speak to it.  It scares the saints to even think about it.  Which is a good thing... the WORD says to "FLEE" (run away as fast as you can) from evil.  But, God grants peace with His Holy Spirit when we seek him.  And sends us comfort in times of stress.

I'd say... satan would love for you to Believe you committed this sin. He'd love to keep you on a track to Hell or to see you give up.  He's the liar.  He's the enemy of your soul, of your peace of all that is good in your life.  If he can beat you down and take everything from you in life and then kill you..  He will.  You need to stop worrying about THIS sin and start to get into the VICTORY teachings of defeating the enemy... Put your foot on his neck, and PUSH.  

[HRoberson]

makes sense hroberson. That post about the blue giraffes sums up how I think when I get to thinking about the unforgivable sin. It's a terrifying thing especially to not know if you have committed it and are already hopeless no matter what. I'm just a compulsive thinker.

I don't think personally if I had committed it though I would be this worried about it. Thank you for your posts.

OK, here's another wrinkle: It's forgivable.

[volsfan1]

kensington and hroberson thank you. When you start thinking about it and how easy it could  be to commit I suppose if you said something in a moment of anger, it makes you want to give up. But I guess the best thing to do is do what you can and try your best to straighten things out.

[volsfan1]

hroberson don't mess with me.  lol. don't confuse me here. Don't say something is forgivable just to try and make me feel bettter.

[kensington]

kensington and hroberson thank you. When you start thinking about it and how easy it could  be to commit I suppose if you said something in a moment of anger, it makes you want to give up. But I guess the best thing to do is do what you can and try your best to straighten things out.

I don't believe that you can do it on accident. 

[kensington]

hroberson don't mess with me.  lol. don't confuse me here. Don't say something is forgivable just to try and make me feel bettter.

Maybe he means what you did is forgivable.  True blasphemy of the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.  If it was... Jesus would be a liar.  And we know that is not possible.  Or at least I do. 

[volsfan1]

I agree that if you committed it like has been said on many things that I've read, you would not be worried or think you would need to ask for forgiveness. It would have to be someone with such a hardened heart that they feel no remorse of worry about it.

[volsfan1]

I probably just need to not give up and get closer with God.

[volsfan1]

a view that I agree with

http://www.religioustolerance.org/unfsin2.htm

[kensington]

I probably just need to not give up and get closer with God.

Yep.. and that is called WARFARE...  don't sit back and let satan rob you of your walk.  Draw as close to God as you can.  Read the word, spend time daily in worship.. get right down on your knees in your living room with him. Listen to worship music or songs...  And let that be what is in your thinking... clean your house (spiritually) and then put things of the spirit in yourself so that it stays clean. 

It's not always easy, but it's always worth the effort.  Even if you grow slowly... that is still growing.  Try..

[poptart]

Matthew 12:30, 31
He that is not with me is against me, and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.
Therefore I say unto you, Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men; but the blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.


What does it mean to "gather" with Jesus Christ.

Of course it means that you testify to him and make new disciples, new believers.

This IS the unmistakable mark of a believer -- see Acts 1:8.

You WILL be witnesses unto me ...


If, in your lifetime, you are not a witness to Christ, you are not a believer.

If you are not a believer, you have not believed and received Jesus Christ.

Now if the Holy Spirit has CALLED and CONVICTED you that Jesus is the Christ, and you deny it, you are, as Jesus said in Mark 3:28, in danger of eternal damnation.

In the case of the Pharisees, they denied what the Holy Spirit was telling them and showing them.
Christ knew they would never accept him, accept the truth.

Hence, no forgiveness for them.

[sopranette]

I don't even know for sure if I'm saved right now in my life.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Romans 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

love,

sopranette

[volsfan1]

yeah it comes down to whether one believes you can do something in your lifetime and not be forgiven or whether it's something you have to do over the course of your whole lifetime (never receiving Jesus Christ).   Even if it was out of a moment of anger I would think there is forgiveness. That comes back to the thing about if you did it and didn't mean it you would become worried about whether you had committed it or not.

[volsfan1]

here is a good discussion on it. It's a catholic forum but has good points



http://forum.catholic.org/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=44976&sid=36df386761ca1c50d870097474ece816&p=603698

[HRoberson]

hroberson don't mess with me.  lol. don't confuse me here. Don't say something is forgivable just to try and make me feel bettter.

I'm not messing.

I'm trying to answer your entire conundrum one point at a time, so that you can step through it.

In order to do that, we need to take the answer one step at a time. That's why I want you to read, and stay with, the original passage only, until it's time to move on.

The answer to your question is quite simple, and does not require the reading of various articles, from various view points. All that is going to do is confuse you.

[volsfan1]

hroberson if you would just e-mail me your opinion on it that would be appreciated. It would save time. Do you have hotmail? The whole discussion has made me more confused. I sort of agree with people who say you can stilll be forgiven if  you are willing to repent.

[HRoberson]

hroberson if you would just e-mail me your opinion on it that would be appreciated. It would save time. Do you have hotmail? The whole discussion has made me more confused. I sort of agree with people who say you can stilll be forgiven if  you are willing to repent.

You have a PM.

Bottom line: the sin is specific, and the statement is aimed at specific people.

You likely have not committed the sin, and aren't the sort of person to whom the original statement was made.

Let it go.

[volsfan1]

thank you hroberson

[HRoberson]

Well, you're welcome.