attractive ladies

[son of God]

I would suggest getting a concordance, WalkerS.  Also, there are a fair number of programs that have all sorts of translations of the bible on them, and you can word search, using multiple words.  So if you are familiar with a particular version, use that version on the search.  A concordance is helpful, often giving better results when looking for a single type word which has variations, such as find, finds, findeth, etc., because you can see the variations and scan the references with them, whereas the program word search doesn't do that for you.

Sometimes it good to do a search and look things up, instead of always just having everything placed before us.  So if you could give the references to the ones you find, I will give the references to the others, if you miss a few.

Sound reasonable?

[son of God]

Corbley:

We do well to remember Ezekiel 16.12 before being too hard on the ladies...

That's right up there with the others figures of speak, F, as is done throughout that very same passage.

[farouk]

Ms light:

Well, I've heard of tanning in a two piece swimsuit with the top part untied.

I don't advise it, mind, if there are other folks around.

Yes Mr. F it just keeps getting weirder and weirder.

[chosenone]

Ms light:

Well, I've heard of tanning in a two piece swimsuit with the top part untied.

I don't advise it, mind, if there are other folks around.

Yes Mr. F it just keeps getting weirder and weirder.

what on earth has this got to do with anything on this topic? I think you may need to have a cold shower!!!

[farouk]

Ms ch:

We were referring to Rahn's various posts. I guess he digressed. Like I said, I certainly don't advocate the sort of thing he was talking about.

[farouk]

'soG'

But in the light of passages such as Ezekiel 16.12, etc., some things can at least be viewed as subjective.

[chosenone]

No, I am not referring to swimwear. I am talking about the lack of undergarments.  I have come across such women in broad daylight during the summer in a downtown area where there are restaurants and legitimate businesses. It is no big deal for them. I have looked around and seen other men look and you know what is on their mind.  Good men can strive to follow a higher moral ground and yet must  live in this culture. We accept this and are called upon to "make every effort" to follow this higher path. We must 

R:

European?

You mean, re. swimwear fashions, do you.

This past summer I attended a festival, a baseball game, and spent some time in a downtown area. It was hot and the women dressed to stay cool. Some dressed decently and some did not. I have been to several events like this and have grown accustomed to what is worn. Some women are so used to wearing what they wear without conscience. It is normal.

The fashion industry creates the trends and many women follow the trends. What I have seen this past summer is the norm. Some women wear very little. I am a Christian man and know right from wrong. Do I quit going out to places because some women dress the way they do? Some women are going "European." Should I put on blinders like they do mules and keep my head to the ground? How to keep from running into things?    

Cant say I have noticed that myself even though I am european (British).
I guess it is up to each of us where we go and what we allow ourselves to see. I can only say that my husband doesnt go to places that would have women dressed very immodestly. He also doesnt watch things on TV that have women with little on and will close his eyes if an advert comes on for example, that has a women in a bikini or similar.
When he was married to his first wife, they went with her parents to Portugal where many women on the beaches go topless. He found that hard, as while he, like most men, was tempted to look, he knew that he shouldnt and didnt actually want to see women sexual parts that werent his to see, so he had to go for long walks away form the beach to aviod this situation as much as possible.
They never should have gone there as it was obvious that for a Christian guy it would be very hard.

Also when I was married to my first husband. we went to Spain with our three small children. There also all the women were topless, except me. Even though I wasnt following God then, I just KNEW it was wrong and even though my then husband wanted me to I refused.
My husband now would never want me to dress in anyway immodestly and I love him for being such a moral and godly man. What I have is for him and him alone to see.

[farouk]

Ms ch:

Interesting what you said.

I don't remotely defend it.

It might be relevant to note that in Ontario there was a court ruling a while ago to the effect that no official may challenge a lady's desire to be in that way in public, if she so wishes.

Of course, British and North Americans overseas in Africa on missions trips in the bush, may even today find it a custom there, too.

Again, I don't remotely defend it.

But I'm on the point of wondering if it is at least partly a cultural thing.

...they went with her parents to Portugal where many women on the beaches go topless. 
....we went to Spain with our three small children. There also all the women were topless, except me. ... even though my then husband wanted me to I refused.
...

[chosenone]

Ms ch:

Interesting what you said.

I don't remotely defend it.

It might be relevant to note that in Ontario there was a court ruling a while ago to the effect that no official may challenge a lady's desire to be in that way in public, if she so wishes.

Of course, British and North Americans overseas in Africa on missions trips in the bush, may even today find it a custom there, too.

Again, I don't remotely defend it.

But I'm on the point of wondering if it is at least partly a cultural thing.

...they went with her parents to Portugal where many women on the beaches go topless. 
....we went to Spain with our three small children. There also all the women were topless, except me. ... even though my then husband wanted me to I refused.
...

In the cases I mentioned it wasnt cultural as it was all tourists who were doing this and not the local people. Even though in the Uk it isnt generally accepted that women go topless on our beaches (and hardy any do), it seems that when they go abroard they do so, and in other parts of europe is is much more accepted. I dont understand why it is accepted on a beach that women can dress.like that,when it isnt else where but that is my opinion. I think the uK is far more modest in that way than much of the rest of europe (thankgoodness)

[farouk]

Ms ch:

I'm sure you are right to point out that there might be a difference between what visitors might do, and what local ppl might do. That might be part of it.

The very fact that there are wide regional differences but also that in various parts of the world in quite varied circumstances (beaches in southern Europe; re. Ontario judge's ruling; what ppl on African missions trips might see, etc.) it's a not unusual practice, does make me wonder if at least in part it could be described as a cultural thing.

The fact also that your observations involve the word 'all', indicating just how widespread it was, might indicate that it wasn't just one or two isolated individuals trying to oppose the norm, right?

But yes, I probably share some of your 'old fashioned' - if I can use the term, maybe there is a better term - instincts, when it comes to this practice.

I guess there is the difference between the ideal and what is quite widespread practice. What is ideal would be quite preferable indeed, but so many simply go along with what's widespread practice.

Quote from: chosenone on Yesterday at 03:01:54 PM
Quote from: farouk on Yesterday at 02:33:50 PM
Ms ch:

Interesting what you said.

I don't remotely defend it.

It might be relevant to note that in Ontario there was a court ruling a while ago to the effect that no official may challenge a lady's desire to be in that way in public, if she so wishes.

Of course, British and North Americans overseas in Africa on missions trips in the bush, may even today find it a custom there, too.

Again, I don't remotely defend it.

But I'm on the point of wondering if it is at least partly a cultural thing.

Quote from: chosenone on Yesterday at 02:10:28 PM

...they went with her parents to Portugal where many women on the beaches go topless. 
....we went to Spain with our three small children. There also all the women were topless, except me. ... even though my then husband wanted me to I refused.
...



In the cases I mentioned it wasnt cultural as it was all tourists who were doing this and not the local people. Even though in the Uk it isnt generally accepted that women go topless on our beaches (and hardy any do), it seems that when they go abroard they do so, and in other parts of europe is is much more accepted. I dont understand why it is accepted on a beach that women can dress.like that,when it isnt else where but that is my opinion. I think the uK is far more modest in that way than much of the rest of europe (thankgoodness)

[walker starr]

         There is a clothing optional hot springs not more than 60  miles from here.

[chosenone]

Ms ch:

I'm sure you are right to point out that there might be a difference between what visitors might do, and what local ppl might do. That might be part of it.

The very fact that there are wide regional differences but also that in various parts of the world in quite varied circumstances (beaches in southern Europe; re. Ontario judge's ruling; what ppl on African missions trips might see, etc.) it's a not unusual practice, does make me wonder if at least in part it could be described as a cultural thing.

The fact also that your observations involve the word 'all', indicating just how widespread it was, might indicate that it wasn't just one or two isolated individuals trying to oppose the norm, right?

But yes, I probably share some of your 'old fashioned' - if I can use the term, maybe there is a better term - instincts, when it comes to this practice.

I guess there is the difference between the ideal and what is quite widespread practice. What is ideal would be quite preferable indeed, but so many simply go along with what's widespread practice.

Quote from: chosenone on Yesterday at 03:01:54 PM
Quote from: farouk on Yesterday at 02:33:50 PM
Ms ch:

Interesting what you said.

I don't remotely defend it.

It might be relevant to note that in Ontario there was a court ruling a while ago to the effect that no official may challenge a lady's desire to be in that way in public, if she so wishes.

Of course, British and North Americans overseas in Africa on missions trips in the bush, may even today find it a custom there, too.

Again, I don't remotely defend it.

But I'm on the point of wondering if it is at least partly a cultural thing.

Quote from: chosenone on Yesterday at 02:10:28 PM

...they went with her parents to Portugal where many women on the beaches go topless. 
....we went to Spain with our three small children. There also all the women were topless, except me. ... even though my then husband wanted me to I refused.
...



In the cases I mentioned it wasnt cultural as it was all tourists who were doing this and not the local people. Even though in the Uk it isnt generally accepted that women go topless on our beaches (and hardy any do), it seems that when they go abroard they do so, and in other parts of europe is is much more accepted. I dont understand why it is accepted on a beach that women can dress.like that,when it isnt else where but that is my opinion. I think the uK is far more modest in that way than much of the rest of europe (thankgoodness)

Ms ch:

I'm sure you are right to point out that there might be a difference between what visitors might do, and what local ppl might do. That might be part of it.

The very fact that there are wide regional differences but also that in various parts of the world in quite varied circumstances (beaches in southern Europe; re. Ontario judge's ruling; what ppl on African missions trips might see, etc.) it's a not unusual practice, does make me wonder if at least in part it could be described as a cultural thing.

The fact also that your observations involve the word 'all', indicating just how widespread it was, might indicate that it wasn't just one or two isolated individuals trying to oppose the norm, right?

But yes, I probably share some of your 'old fashioned' - if I can use the term, maybe there is a better term - instincts, when it comes to this practice.

I guess there is the difference between the ideal and what is quite widespread practice. What is ideal would be quite preferable indeed, but so many simply go along with what's widespread practice.

Quote from: chosenone on Yesterday at 03:01:54 PM
Quote from: farouk on Yesterday at 02:33:50 PM
Ms ch:

Interesting what you said.

I don't remotely defend it.

It might be relevant to note that in Ontario there was a court ruling a while ago to the effect that no official may challenge a lady's desire to be in that way in public, if she so wishes.

Of course, British and North Americans overseas in Africa on missions trips in the bush, may even today find it a custom there, too.

Again, I don't remotely defend it.

But I'm on the point of wondering if it is at least partly a cultural thing.

Quote from: chosenone on Yesterday at 02:10:28 PM

...they went with her parents to Portugal where many women on the beaches go topless. 
....we went to Spain with our three small children. There also all the women were topless, except me. ... even though my then husband wanted me to I refused.
...



In the cases I mentioned it wasnt cultural as it was all tourists who were doing this and not the local people. Even though in the Uk it isnt generally accepted that women go topless on our beaches (and hardy any do), it seems that when they go abroard they do so, and in other parts of europe is is much more accepted. I dont understand why it is accepted on a beach that women can dress.like that,when it isnt else where but that is my opinion. I think the uK is far more modest in that way than much of the rest of europe (thankgoodness)

well 'all' being 'all' the women at the hotel I was staying at round the pool and on the beach. I really was the only women that I saw who wasnt topless. I dont think we are old fashioned either, or if we are. God is old fashioned also.

[chosenone]

         There is a clothing optional hot springs not more than 60  miles from here.

  We have a few nudist beaches here in the uK. Actually it was quite bizarre, as we went to a beach on the South Coast once, which was near the nudist beech, and the people going there had to walk along our beach to get to the nudist one.(clothed at that point)
Anyway, 99% of those going there were gay man on their own (and I could definatetly tell they were gay) I thought this was very strange and wondered if there were things going on there that shouldnt have been. Othwerwise what was attracting all of these single gay men on their
own to what was supposed to be a nudist beach for anyone? weird.I still dont know to this day (and wasnt going to go and have a look)

[farouk]

Ms ch:

Yes. I wondered whether the term 'old fashioned' really was the right term. Maybe a better term would be, having sensibilities which used to be more widespread than they are today, or something.

But it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that all the ladies at the hotel pool, and the beach, did it, because ever so many tanners and swimmers regard it as the normal thing to do. (As for men who are not related, they should keep away, shouldn't they.)

Take care.

...
well 'all' being 'all' the women at the hotel I was staying at round the pool and on the beach. I really was the only women that I saw who wasnt topless. I dont think we are old fashioned either, or if we are. God is old fashioned also.

[yesult]

[I still dont know to this day (and wasnt going to go and have a look)

I don't blame you 

[farouk]

Ms ch:

Yes I know those exist, too, but I didn't think you were referring previously to a specifically nudist beach or hotel. I think accurately understood you to mean that all the ladies were only 'semi-nudist' in appearance, which is a quite different category, not that one advocates it.

Take care.

Quote from: chosenone on Today at 11:48:48 AM

  We have a few nudist beaches here in the uK. ...

[chosenone]

Ms ch:

Yes I know those exist, too, but I didn't think you were referring previously to a specifically nudist beach or hotel. I think accurately understood you to mean that all the ladies were only 'semi-nudist' in appearance, which is a quite different category, not that one advocates it.

Take care.

Quote from: chosenone on Today at 11:48:48 AM

  We have a few nudist beaches here in the uK. ...

no my original post was about a place that we went to in Spain. The beach was in the UK.

[chosenone]

Ms ch:

Yes. I wondered whether the term 'old fashioned' really was the right term. Maybe a better term would be, having sensibilities which used to be more widespread than they are today, or something.

But it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that all the ladies at the hotel pool, and the beach, did it, because ever so many tanners and swimmers regard it as the normal thing to do. (As for men who are not related, they should keep away, shouldn't they.)

Take care.

...
well 'all' being 'all' the women at the hotel I was staying at round the pool and on the beach. I really was the only women that I saw who wasnt topless. I dont think we are old fashioned either, or if we are. God is old fashioned also.

Even if a man is related to one of the women isnt going to be related to any of the others is he? Many men would just see it is a free show I guess, but Christian guys shouldnt be anywhere near a place like that.

[farouk]

Ms ch:

Oh okay, the hotel was in Spain, yes.

It's probable that those hotels simply come to expect that their lady guests will want to tan and swim like that, anyway.

But I understand you didn't feel comfortable there, right? even if the hotels are so used to it because it really is so widespread, that they wouldn't really figure about it.

Take care.

from: chosenone on Today at 04:22:04 PM

no my original post was about a place that we went to in Spain. The beach was in the UK.

[lightshineon]

 I guess Chosenone, and Mr, F, have lived a much more dramatic life than mine. I could not imagine going topless in a public setting. I would be just appalled to go to a nudist beach. I would be covering my eyes constantly.

[farouk]

Ms light:

Actually it's apples and oranges. Nudist beaches and the situation - widespread in many places - at Ms ch's hotel, are distinct. I'm not writing in favor of either, but they are distinct.

Otherwise, backyard tanning with the backstrap loose would come under the category of 'nudism', which isn't the case.

(But hey, what do I know?)

Take care.

I guess Chosenone, and Mr, F, have lived a much more dramatic life than mine. I could not imagine going topless in a public setting. I would be just appalled to go to a nudist beach. I would be covering my eyes constantly.

[lightshineon]

 Mr. F, if one is going to sunbathe in that fashion they need a privacy fence. Though speaking of it, some bathing suits I have seen at  non-nudist beach, leave very little to the imagination. I am, a nerd, whatever, I am modest, and wear bathing suits, that are modest. I think women look so much more attractive and classy. if a woman or man has good taste the rest, of looking attractive falls in line. I have very good taste IMHO.

[farouk]

Ms light:

I'm no fan of nudism, believe me.

But it's a case of perspective; the rear view of a prom dress might be similar to a backyard tan with the backstrap of a two piece loose.

Just a case of keeping things in perspective, I guess.

Take care.

from: lightshineon on Today at 03:53:06 PM
Mr. F, if one is going to sunbathe in that fashion they need a privacy fence. Though speaking of it, some bathing suits I have seen at  non-nudist beach, leave very little to the imagination. I am, a nerd, whatever, I am modest, and wear bathing suits, that are modest. I think women look so much more attractive and classy. if a woman or man has good taste the rest, of looking attractive falls in line. I have very good taste IMHO.

[walker starr]

     Of course you're not a fan farouk you just have a healthy interest.  Take care.

[farouk]

My basic point about the distinction between the skin visibility in a prom dress, backyard tanning, etc., and real nudism, is not being taken seriously at all.

Of course you're not a fan farouk you just have a healthy interest.  Take care. Smile

[armywifenmom]

Many times we automatically assume if a woman is not fully covered that she is trying to tempt a man. Truth be told women dress the way they do moreso b/c they like the style or they are trying to impress other women. Women know that a man may look at us in a lustful manner, but women will look at you in a complimentary manner, ie ''i like your necklace,i wonder what that would look like on me, or i wish i had her figure so i could wear that. Men are not always on womens mind when they get dressed. Also who is to say what is inappropriate? Some christians go as far as to say that tank tops or short sleeves are trampy.

[farouk]

Ms armywifenmom:

I guess it varies greatly from lady to lady. (I would be hard pressed to cast aspersions on ladies jogging, etc.)

....Some christians go as far as to say that tank tops or short sleeves are trampy.