Polygamy and Concubines?

[Cobalt1959]

"Ah yes, it's the old "You don't believe as I do so you don't read your bible and your ignorant" argument.  Very persuasive.  Well, then again, not so much.  Lots of people go around with flawed beliefs based on their own human desires and not God's word and try to intimate that others are stupid because they don't believe as they do.  That is one of the classic earmarks of a cultic belief.  Good job."

Actually it is based on a very thorough study of the scriptures. I have spent hundreds of hours studying the topics of marriage, adultery, fornication, divorce, etc... in order to learn what God has to say about them rather than what men have decided that God meant to say. Should you approach the scriptures with an open mind and allow the holy Spirit to lead you in God's truths you will find a number of errors with Cathoilc and Christian doctrine. The problem is that most people are too lazy to make the effort, too fearful of what they might find, and too ingrained in a doctrine they were taught. The Bible states that many will be deceived; what better tool for Satan to use than the "church" itself?

"You will wait in vain for "good and faithful servant" and what you actually hear is going to be one ugly surprise to you."

Ahh...so now you usurp the authority of God and condemn me...wow...any way...back on topic...

"God was pretty clear as to what the definition of marriage was in Genesis 2:24.  It's impossible to misunderstand unless one willingly wants to."

You might find in my other posts that I completely agree with you. Marriage is a covenant between a man and a woman. If you manage to continue reading beyond Genesis (which is where most "Christians" put their Bibles down and completely lose track of them) you will see that God limits a woman to one husband, one covenant. A man however is not limited to only one wife and only one covenant.

If we take the circumstances before the fall and assume that circumstance dictates law then we have a few problems to deal with. Before the fall Adam was naked, had one wife, was employed in agriculture, and commanded to be fruitful and multiply. Now, according to the monogamy doctrine it is therefore sinful to have more than one wife, wear clothing, work as in any field other than agriculture, and be single or not produce many children. Certainly even you can see the flaw in this "logical assumption".

"Would you say that abortion is acceptable simply because there is no specific command against it?"

Abortion has nothing to do with the topic at hand, but my position is that abortion is the intentional cessation of life beyond conception and is murder. It is also my understanding that if a believer or non-believer has an abortion they will answer to God for it, not me. If she is a member of my congregation I will counsel her against abortion/murder, but anyone outside of my congregation is for the Lord to deal wit, and He is much more powerful and persuasive than me.

1 Corinthians 5:12-13 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. "Purge the evil person from among you."

If your "Church" wishes to teach and enforce a specific doctrine you have every right to. What you don't have the right to do is use the government and the law to impose your doctrine upon me and my church. Again, the bigamy and anti-polygamy laws are soon to be overturned and for very good reason, they are exceptionally poor law.

"I guess the camp you come from believes that they have suddenly discovered some amazing hidden truth that the church has otherwise been ignorant of for almost 2000 years.  I don't think so. "

Actually you couldn't be more wrong (surprise, surprise, surprise). This topic has been discussed long before the Bishop in Rome was considered to be the "Pope". Here is a rather interesting publication from 1869 about the history of polygyny, although I doubt you will actually read it, it is likely that many following this thread will..

http://www.biblicalfamilies.org/doc/HistoryOfMarriage-1869.pdf

Nope, no condemnation, nice try though.  Since you have spent hundreds of hours studying marriage, adultery and fornication you may want to branch out, take a break, study condemnation for the next couple of days and figure out what the word means because it's clear from your use of it above that you don't understand what it means, biblically.  This is another one of those tactics that people use to try and circumvent any opposition to their flawed reasoning.  It amounts to "you can't tell me anything I believe is wrong because you'd be condemning me."  That bell you just hear was the game show gong telling you that your answer was wrong.  I said that if you believe that Jesus will tell you "Well done good and faithful servant" for having more than one wife, you are mistaken.  You are wrong.  I attached no conscequence to it beyond your shock at what you hear, so there was no condemnation.  Now had I taken it a step further and said that you would lose a reward, burn in hell, have to go stand in the corner for your false belief, I have now taken it the next step to condemnation.  If I attach a consequence or punishment to the wrong belief, I am then condemning you, but if not, not so much.  No thanks are necessary.

Well, you've covered pretty much the whole gambit so far.  You called me a Pharisee in another thread.  You've implied that I'm stupid, poorly-read when it comes to the Bible, don't know how to interpret the Bible, that I'm being spoon-fed by someone else who is stupid and doesn't understand the Bible either, and now above, I'm not lead by the Holy Spirit when I read the Bible!  Another classic forum cliche.  "He doesn't agree with me so he's not lead by the Holy Spirit."  I am amazed that people are still trying to use these tired old feints to prop up their bad theology.  All they do is weaken your position and illustrate a certain amount of desperation and dishonesty.  They are clear red flags as to some specific problems.  You have not used the "doctrine of demons" counter yet or that you are one of the very few uber-special 'elect' gifted with some special true knowledge of the Bible that no one else has, but, given enough time, I'm sure you'll get around to them.  Insults, belittling, and tired cliches like the ones you used above are clear signs that you really have nothing of substance to offer, you just like to bully people.  The problem with bullies, however, is there are only two outcomes to their behavior.  They either chase people away, or they finally get beat up themselves.

Have a nice day, and I think I'll keep my lunch money today, if that's ok with you.

[Scarecrow]

"I said that if you believe that Jesus will tell you "Well done good and faithful servant" for having more than one wife, you are mistaken.  You are wrong.'

Prove it...

"you really have nothing of substance to offer"

I guess the Word of God is nothing of substance to you...hmmm, well at least now I understand why it is that you do not understand...

[Saul 25]

The bible does not teach that having more than one wife was a sin, that is the truth.  In America it would be a sin because the person would not be obeying the law that is against plural marriage. There is a place in the bible that appears to be future where seven women will want to marry one man.

[Scarecrow]

According to the Jewish calendar it is the 14th of Tevet, 5771. Assuming the beginning of humanity was 5771 years ago polygyny was perfectly legal until around 1870 in North America and has only been "illegal" for a mere 140 years (2.43% of the time). It was made illegal by misled "Christians" and forced upon an entire nation. It is about to become "legal" again which in itself is a very interesting thing. Marriage is a natural law and not one granted by the state which is why the states often recognize "common law" marriages so they can control them as well. The fact that the states took it upon themselves to determine what is and is not "legal" within the boundaries of a religious marriage is nothing short of an abomination to God. Show me one instance where a license was required in the Bible when a man took a wife, or second wife, etc...it doesn't exist. If the government wishes to register civil unions when marriages take place then let them. But the government has no place being in the marriage business regulating it and selling licenses for it. To any believer that understands marriage for what it is from a biblical perspective; granting the government authority, instead of God, over their marriage is truly an affront.

I am reminded of the Israelites:

1 Samuel 8:4-7 Then all the elders of Israel gathered together and came to Samuel at Ramah and said to him, "Behold, you are old and your sons do not walk in your ways. Now appoint for us a king to judge us like all the nations." But the thing displeased Samuel when they said, "Give us a king to judge us." And Samuel prayed to the LORD. And the LORD said to Samuel, "Obey the voice of the people in all that they say to you, for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected me from being king over them.

Just as the people wanted a king so they could be like the other nations, the Christians run to the alter to sign a document granting the state authority over their marriage and children. This very act allows the state to usurp the position and authority of God over their marriage and children. Don't believe me? Ask anyone that has been through a divorce how much control the state can exercise over the marriage and disposition of the children. Very disturbing once you realize the implications. It is actually a sign of how far the church has gone to conform to the government and society in general. Ask any individual familiar with church trends and you will find that the church is always approximately 20 years behind the changes in society.