How to restore a busted marriage?

[Ardith]

How can a marriage be fixed when the other party doesn't want to forgive and move on? I can't MAKE him want to forgive.  He is treated me very mean lately. (angry, disrespecting me, acts as if he doesn't care any longer)    He has a right to be angry, but so do I. I'm at a loss!!!  How come I can move forward and he won't?  He acts like my sin was worse than his.  Its a long hairy story.

[Ardith]

One other thing,  isn't porn considered cheating?  IMO it IS, and according to the bible I thought It was.  I used to tell Rusty that his looking at porn would be the same if I cheated on him with another human.  Do you folks agree?  He doesn't.  Rusty says its not the same since its not a real life person.  When you even think on someone other than your wife or husband, it is cheating in the heart. So I guess Rusty wants to justify it! Any advice, input would be appreciated.

[Lively Stone]

One other thing,  isn't porn considered cheating?  IMO it IS, and according to the bible I thought It was.  I used to tell Rusty that his looking at porn would be the same if I cheated on him with another human.  Do you folks agree?  He doesn't.  Rusty says its not the same since its not a real life person.  When you even think on someone other than your wife or husband, it is cheating in the heart. So I guess Rusty wants to justify it! Any advice, input would be appreciated.

Indulging in porn is the exact same sin as adultery. I have a close friend whose husband had admitted to a problem with porn and she gave him two chances. After the second chance, she laid down the law and said, no more or the marriage will not continue, because to her it was adultery on his part, according to the scriptures.

Matthew 5:28
But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.


This husband has never had a problem with porn since, and in fact has expressed that he is sickened by it and has even gone so far as to berate the local convenient store for displaying explicit magazines for all to see. He has chosen to obey God and to love her over anyone. They have an excellent, long-standing marriage today.

[chosenone]

One other thing,  isn't porn considered cheating?  IMO it IS, and according to the bible I thought It was.  I used to tell Rusty that his looking at porn would be the same if I cheated on him with another human.  Do you folks agree?  He doesn't.  Rusty says its not the same since its not a real life person.  When you even think on someone other than your wife or husband, it is cheating in the heart. So I guess Rusty wants to justify it! Any advice, input would be appreciated.

Indulging in porn is the exact same sin as adultery. I have a close friend whose husband had admitted to a problem with porn and she gave him two chances. After the second chance, she laid down the law and said, no more or the marriage will not continue, because to her it was adultery on his part, according to the scriptures.

Matthew 5:28
But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.


This husband has never had a problem with porn since, and in fact has expressed that he is sickened by it and has even gone so far as to berate the local convenient store for displaying explicit magazines for all to see. He has chosen to obey God and to love her over anyone. They have an excellent, long-standing marriage today.

Its amazing how many people claim that they cant stop porn use until their spouses lay down the law as your friend did, and guess what, they can miraculously stop.
I have heard this also, from a lady who had put with it for ages, and finally threatened to leave. He stopped just like that. Any addiction can be stopped IF you want to do it enough.I have heard of women who have put up with this for 30 or more more years.    Incredible. One lady on a  forum had a husband who was a pastor, and he had been into porn for about 30 years, and she just put up with it. Enabling such a thing for all that time surely isnt best or right fopr the marriage or the church! Just imagine that poor church wondering why they werent growing or prospering or being blessed, and it was the wilful sin of their leader.
In such cases godly boundaries are called for. It may be necessary in the end for one or two mature believers to be involved(if he is a Christian)in challenging him about it. Its absolutely NOT right ardith, and some women actually say it is worse than a physical affair because it is like cheating with hundreds of different women.
Ardith is he a believer?

[Ardith]

Thank you for the replies.  He is a believer however, we both haven't gone to church for atleast over a year. We both have strayed.  (when we should have been seeking Him the most, we both strayed even more when all this garbage happened in our marriage)   But I can't make the sun of a gun go to church.  He doesn't seem to want to because he has so much hurt, anger and pain from the sin I caused him.    Also, I had a feeling porn was just like cheating. I hate when people want to justify their sin to make theirs look better than yours.   That is just what Rusty is doing, trying to make my sin out to be WORSE than His was. Sometimes I would just like to dump some ice water on him.   I know I should just pray for him and get into God's word more. 

[Ardith]

I always have these after thoughts.. lol,,   Unforgiveness is a big issue from the sin we both inflicted on eachother.  If there is no forgiveness, then all I will continue to see is ugliness, and bitterness growing and growing more and more.  Like I said,  its become really hairy.

[chosenone]

Thank you for the replies.  He is a believer however, we both haven't gone to church for atleast over a year. We both have strayed.  (when we should have been seeking Him the most, we both strayed even more when all this garbage happened in our marriage)   But I can't make the sun of a gun go to church.  He doesn't seem to want to because he has so much hurt, anger and pain from the sin I caused him.    Also, I had a feeling porn was just like cheating. I hate when people want to justify their sin to make theirs look better than yours.   That is just what Rusty is doing, trying to make my sin out to be WORSE than His was. Sometimes I would just like to dump some ice water on him.   I know I should just pray for him and get into God's word more. 

There is nothing to stop you going to church is there?  I have three friends who all go alone because their husbands wont go.
Are you saying that you had an affair?

[Ardith]

Thank you for the replies.  He is a believer however, we both haven't gone to church for atleast over a year. We both have strayed.  (when we should have been seeking Him the most, we both strayed even more when all this garbage happened in our marriage)   But I can't make the sun of a gun go to church.  He doesn't seem to want to because he has so much hurt, anger and pain from the sin I caused him.    Also, I had a feeling porn was just like cheating. I hate when people want to justify their sin to make theirs look better than yours.   That is just what Rusty is doing, trying to make my sin out to be WORSE than His was. Sometimes I would just like to dump some ice water on him.   I know I should just pray for him and get into God's word more. 

There is nothing to stop you going to church is there?  I have three friends who all go alone because their husbands wont go.
Are you saying that you had an affair?

Unfortunately yes I did.  We have been married for 21 yrs and he had a porn problem with a lot of apologies later, and I kept forgiving and forgiving... Thats when I used to mention to him how would he feel if I went out to dinner with another guy, etc.. Rusty would say, "its not the same".  Well, in a sense it IS and a sense it isn't.  I know with porn, it isn't an emotional connection, where with a real person it can be.  Im my case, I did have a connection for almost 10 months with this man. 

At first, I was just leaving for a short separation, and it turned into more.  Rusty was begging me to come home for weeks, and weeks led into months.  He then figured we were over, and also had an affair, but his wasn't a connection like mine.    Rusty would write me these sweet e-mails, send songs that were special, everything I was longing for to start with, and then when I finally came home.. he was great for the first say 6 months, then now he is being worse than ever before.  I think its because he can't get past the unforgiveness.  I feel I am really trying, but I'm getting at my wits end again.  I can only take so much of this.  We were BOTH wrong.  He is prideful.  When he first wanted me back, he admitted he was wrong etc... now thats all down the tubes. Its ALL my fault in his eyes.   BTW, I have been back with him for just over a year now.  Please pray things will get better and for God to soften Rusty's heart.  Please.  I want this to work, but my heart is broken every day. He won't let me forget.     Your right, I can listen to bible tapes, go to church, without him, but then I feel he will take advantage of that.   

[Ardith]

What the heck? Maybe I should just leave since he threatens me like every few days.  What the heck should I do?    You would think he would have learned the first time around.   This may just be a hole in the head marriage. Maybe I'm wasting my time

[chosenone]

Some good Christian marriage counselling will really help you both I think. Adultery can take years and years to get over.
Also you need to be with other believers at this time whether he goes or not. Who knows, if you go he may follow after a while.

[Ardith]

You are so right chosenone, as there must be multible prayers going out for Russ and myself, as I'm already seeing some special changes in him this evening.  This is great if it will last.    Russy can go up and down like we all can, but he is being super different tonight.  Right now, he just needs a softened heart. I really hope that is what God is whats doing this for him.  Tonight, he is being extra careful with his mouth, more sensitive towards my feelings, etc... Oh,,, I hope he keeps it up.   And whoever is praying , THANK YOU so much. It must be working somewhat.  God is good at wanting to help "fixer-uppers" and right now thats all Rusty needs is a soft heart to start off with.   Thanks all you all.  this is a great night so far. 

[JohnDB]

You are so right chosenone, as there must be multible prayers going out for Russ and myself, as I'm already seeing some special changes in him this evening.  This is great if it will last.    Russy can go up and down like we all can, but he is being super different tonight.  Right now, he just needs a softened heart. I really hope that is what God is whats doing this for him.  Tonight, he is being extra careful with his mouth, more sensitive towards my feelings, etc... Oh,,, I hope he keeps it up.   And whoever is praying , THANK YOU so much. It must be working somewhat.  God is good at wanting to help "fixer-uppers" and right now thats all Rusty needs is a soft heart to start off with.   Thanks all you all.  this is a great night so far. 

You are over thinking this whole thing from the wrong perspective...I've been there and done that.

Right now you aren't sure of what he is thinking and what he is doing. Your mind is going overboard with all the different things he could be doing or wanting.

Instead play the brutal honest card.

What I am saying is ask him a couple of questions. (of course they will be leading him down a particular path)

Ask him what his view of a perfect marriage would look like.
(You will probably have to remind him that this isn't a time for pointing fingers at what the other person has done wrong and that if you wanted to you could point fingers too but that isn't going to fix your marriage and only make it worse...and right now the whole thing is hanging by a thread.) Admit the fact that not only did you fail but that you hurt him and that it isn't any excuse but that you were already hurting because of his porn habit. That, to you, the two injuries are exactly the same even if he doesn't want to admit it...that they are exactly the same. (in your eyes and God's)

Guys aren't as simple as what the whole world would like for you to believe. They simply use fewer outlets for complex emotions and women have the whole host of the same emotions but use a bunch of complicated and varied outlets for all that they feel.

Ask him what he would want of you to do to help him feel loved by you.

Ask yourself if you have really done those things that would make him feel loved and especially respected. Guys love being respected...needing respect is hardwiring for guys.

Then if he would like to hear what you think about those two things you asked him...and if he would like to hear why you love him and think he is a wonderful man...better than all the rest in the world.

Ask him then if he can see a positive direction he would like your marriage(the two of you) to go towards...not some kind of esoteric answer either...a specific goal he would like to accomplish.

And if you like that answer tell him how wonderful that would be and how specifically you would like to help him accomplish that goal.

Its not a perfect playbook...you are going to have to think hard as to how you would say and ask these things to him. But the time of finger pointing of "he did this" and "she did that" isn't going to help heal those wounds that you two have inflicted on each other. It's only going to get those wounds infected to where they fester into bitterness and destruction.

There isn't a day that goes by that I don't know what my wife is thinking and feeling...and vice versa. We are dedicated to the same goals in my house...I set the goals and direction and she helps out hugely with details and options...as well as do I. We work relentlessly towards those goals. Every now and then each of us will fail the other but we don't let it fester or go unchecked. I don't want to accomplish those things without her assistance and she desperately wants to go with on our life journey. And you two sound like you are missing out on that.

[Ardith]

JohnDB,  this post hits the nail on the head, and I mean right on the head!  I am crying (in tears of joy) from this post.    I have alot to think about.  ALOT.   I will get back to this when I can really think about your post. But for now, Praise GOD for people like all of you here to encourage one another.  I am going to  on this one.   I do know one thing, I need to do the things you suggested with Russy, but not sure how he will respond/take it.   I just have to do it anyways, reguardless of the response in return.   Your post was super, thanks.    I know I will have more thoughts to post later. 

[Ardith]

Haha!  I guess I did get a little carried away with all the excitement. lol.   I think its because Rusty is so much like a yo-yo with his up and down moods.  I mean, sheesh, Russy is making my head dizzy trying to keep up with his yo-yo ness.   For instance, I don't even know what sort of mood he will be in when he gets home from work.  BUT, I do guarantee there will be atleast one grumble or put down of some sort. If not, I will be surprised at him. I mean, its getting really tiresome every stinkin night.  I guess I just need to ignore him and go cut up some onions or something. I think part of why he treats me like a bag of hay is because he knows how to push my buttons.  If I don't allow him to spoil my evening, why then, how can he get under my skin?  I'm gonna try that one.  Cuz I'm so tired of      Russy will NOT spoil my evening.  I will no longer allow it. I am going to start taking more control and action.  You know, if you get striked, you strike back.  I want no more of it, none of it, otherwise Russy can do this WITHOUT ME.  and I mean it!   I am going to start TELLING him what I'm doing instead of this tippy toe asking him crud.   I mean, I don't ever ask him permission, I usually ask him how he feels about such a thing, but that always gives him plenty of room to start the control thing.    Russy is now only going to get as much respect from me that he gives me. 

[Ardith]

Ask yourself if you have really done those things that would make him feel loved and especially respected. Guys love being respected...needing respect is hardwiring for guys.

JohnDB,  thats all terrific and all, but for years and years thats all I did is respect him...  only to get kicked in the teeth.    I would like to be respected to you know.  Its a two way street, and the sort of respect he is showing me, is the only respect he will get in return.  He will get treated the way he is acting in return.  I will no longer coddle Rusty.  I will love him and respect him, but if he continues to treat me like a bag of hay, then he will get treated that way too.  I  will not reward Russy's  disrespectful behavior.

[Ardith]

Its like a child, they throw a tantrum in the supermarket because you won't get them a toy, and because they continue the tantrum, you give in, and buy the toy.   It's the same thing if Russy wants to keep acting disrespectful to me, and then I reward his disrespect by respecting him? no. no way. 

[JohnDB]

What makes you think that Rusty doesn't know that what he is doing is wrong?

Trying to hurt him back by not respecting him is part of how he was hurt by you to begin with. Guys watch actions moreso than any words you can speak.

I'm not claiming he is an angel in his behavior or even justified but then again neither are you.

In the meantime on a slightly different but related topic you mentioned mood swings.

I know that these mood swings can be caused by sugar levels rising & falling as well as bipolar disorder and testosterone levels.
I'm not a doctor but these are a couple of medical reasons for them. Getting these checked might be in both of your best interests.

Some of these issues can be controlled by diet & exercise.

Definitely by doing less of a role of a wife isn't going to repair your marriage. BUT simply and without anger stating that he can't have what he is demanding till he asks politely and with proper manners isn't going to hurt anyone. Also instead of retribution call him out on his manipulations. That won't hurt either. These tactics will infuriate him but his respect level will increase for you. 

[Ardith]

What makes you think that Rusty doesn't know that what he is doing is wrong?

Trying to hurt him back by not respecting him is part of how he was hurt by you to begin with. Guys watch actions moreso than any words you can speak.

I'm not claiming he is an angel in his behavior or even justified but then again neither are you.

In the meantime on a slightly different but related topic you mentioned mood swings.

I know that these mood swings can be caused by sugar levels rising & falling as well as bipolar disorder and testosterone levels.
I'm not a doctor but these are a couple of medical reasons for them. Getting these checked might be in both of your best interests.

Some of these issues can be controlled by diet & exercise.

Definitely by doing less of a role of a wife isn't going to repair your marriage. BUT simply and without anger stating that he can't have what he is demanding till he asks politely and with proper manners isn't going to hurt anyone. Also instead of retribution call him out on his manipulations. That won't hurt either. These tactics will infuriate him but his respect level will increase for you.

Because JohnDB, the way Russy is acting, is how I know, he KNOWS how he is treating me.

I'm NOT trying to hurt him back, however, I will not enable his disrespectful behavior by rewarding it.  I was respecting him. (Maybe alittle TOO much.. if there is such a thing)

Women also watch actions more-so than words too.   I know I'm far from being an angel, but I have sure tried to be one for the last upmteen years with him.

I think his mood swings are caused by UNFORGIVENESS. from what has happened between us. (only)  and that is Russy's choice if he wants to remain bitter, instead of better.  He doesn't have a health, nor hormone problem, I can assure you that.  If he can look at porn, then he can be with his da-gone wife!

Your right, I am going to stand my ground and stick with it.  No more doormat.  Thanks JohnDB

[Pfc Hall]

The correct understanding of Matt 5:27-28 has been issued on this board several times.  Though it seems as if some members continue to push the muddier version which is full of contradictions. 
Some make the claim that when a man looks at nudie pix of any woman, he is committing adultery.  Memphis Dwight published the following and sheds much light on this passage:

if we go by the original definition and we look at the original greek words, we learn that the greek word for which we get "LUST" we see that it is the same greek word for which we get "COVET" , and the word that was behind WOMAN is the same exact word for WIFE. 

This changes things quite a bit.  The original understanding might go something like this, pay close attention:

Matt 5:27-28
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not sleep with another man's wife:
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a wife (another man's) coveting her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Christ's point then would be that by breaking the commandment about not coveting, one is already en route to breaking the other commandments.