How Can A Person Reject Infallible Dogma/Theology and Claim to Believe in Jesus?

[HRoberson]

I know of no Protestant teachers (with the possible exception of some TV speakers) who do not point their brothers to conformity with Christ and denial of self. There is a large interest in topics around simplicity, submission, gratitude, accepting and dispensing grace, Christian formation and similar concepts.

[Catholica]

I know of no Protestant teachers (with the possible exception of some TV speakers) who do not point their brothers to conformity with Christ and denial of self. There is a large interest in topics around simplicity, submission, gratitude, accepting and dispensing grace, Christian formation and similar concepts.

Sure there is interest, but whether or not people actually do those things, most Protestants fundamentally are opposed that they have any bearing on their salvation.  Remember "faith alone" and the evil "works"?

There are varying opinions, of course, and some believe things in variations on the theme.

[BlackSepulcher]

I know of no Protestant teachers (with the possible exception of some TV speakers) who do not point their brothers to conformity with Christ and denial of self. There is a large interest in topics around simplicity, submission, gratitude, accepting and dispensing grace, Christian formation and similar concepts.

Protestants focus on what they deem 'essentials'. It works well with the personal self and perhaps the immediate people in their lives. It does not, however, do much of anything for ample unity. Such is why Protestant notions are considered highly egoistic, and lack severely in ecclesiastics.
In other words, it is clear why there are so many denominations within that brand of Christianity.

It is almost a tradition in itself that someone in one church to go start another. Even in the same denomination, they cannot remain unified. If the theological splits weren't already redundant, they'll simply split out of the pure ability to do so.

[HRoberson]

I know of no Protestant teachers (with the possible exception of some TV speakers) who do not point their brothers to conformity with Christ and denial of self. There is a large interest in topics around simplicity, submission, gratitude, accepting and dispensing grace, Christian formation and similar concepts.

Sure there is interest, but whether or not people actually do those things, most Protestants fundamentally are opposed that they have any bearing on their salvation.  Remember "faith alone" and the evil "works"?

There are varying opinions, of course, and some believe things in variations on the theme.

I see. You're right that Catholics and many mainstream Protestants differ on the interplay of faith and works. It is however, inaccurate to say that Protestants do not accept their own crosses, or seek to skip through life in some sort of polyanish style. Protestants just skip the confessional as a sacrament, preferring to access God directly.

The OSAS idea is technically incorrect, but the practical affects in the lives of serious Protestants is not significantly different than that of a Catholic who goes to confession daily.

[HRoberson]

I know of no Protestant teachers (with the possible exception of some TV speakers) who do not point their brothers to conformity with Christ and denial of self. There is a large interest in topics around simplicity, submission, gratitude, accepting and dispensing grace, Christian formation and similar concepts.

Protestants focus on what they deem 'essentials'. It works well with the personal self and perhaps the immediate people in their lives. It does not, however, do much of anything for ample unity.

Interesting that a focus on essentials detracts from unity. But let's face it, within Catholicism there are essentials and optional concepts. The problem within Catholicism is that Catholics don't know the difference.

Such is why Protestant notions are considered highly egoistic, and lack severely in ecclesiastics.
In other words, it is clear why there are so many denominations within that brand of Christianity.

I understand this is the view from members of a highly ecclesial church. Despite your view, Protestants, generally, see no reason to focus on non-essentials.

It is almost a tradition in itself that someone in one church to go start another. Even in the same denomination, they cannot remain unified. If the theological splits weren't already redundant, they'll simply split out of the pure ability to do so.

Given the discussions with Anna, and that problem you all have with the Eastern Orthodox, and the Orientals, I'm not sure the scale is an issue when it comes "new" churches. If we were to ask those Orthodox folks you will find that they think the same about you.

But of course, you think you're right.

So does everyone else.








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[FireSword]

I know of no Protestant teachers (with the possible exception of some TV speakers) who do not point their brothers to conformity with Christ and denial of self. There is a large interest in topics around simplicity, submission, gratitude, accepting and dispensing grace, Christian formation and similar concepts.

Protestants focus on what they deem 'essentials'. It works well with the personal self and perhaps the immediate people in their lives. It does not, however, do much of anything for ample unity. Such is why Protestant notions are considered highly egoistic, and lack severely in ecclesiastics.
In other words, it is clear why there are so many denominations within that brand of Christianity.

It is almost a tradition in itself that someone in one church to go start another. Even in the same denomination, they cannot remain unified. If the theological splits weren't already redundant, they'll simply split out of the pure ability to do so.

It's not as divided as you might think. There are regular prayer meetings between different denominations and independents. The divided mentally has not stopped Protestantism grow and reach more souls for Jesus. Sometimes a split is needed because God wants to get a specific work done and he chooses special forces type divisions to accomplish special missions, in which regular churches are simply not equipped to handle.

[mclees8]

I know of no Protestant teachers (with the possible exception of some TV speakers) who do not point their brothers to conformity with Christ and denial of self. There is a large interest in topics around simplicity, submission, gratitude, accepting and dispensing grace, Christian formation and similar concepts.

Protestants focus on what they deem 'essentials'. It works well with the personal self and perhaps the immediate people in their lives. It does not, however, do much of anything for ample unity. Such is why Protestant notions are considered highly egoistic, and lack severely in ecclesiastics.
In other words, it is clear why there are so many denominations within that brand of Christianity.

It is almost a tradition in itself that someone in one church to go start another. Even in the same denomination, they cannot remain unified. If the theological splits weren't already redundant, they'll simply split out of the pure ability to do so.

It's not as divided as you might think. There are regular prayer meetings between different denominations and independents. The divided mentally has not stopped Protestantism grow and reach more souls for Jesus. Sometimes a split is needed because God wants to get a specific work done and he chooses special forces type divisions to accomplish special missions, in which regular churches are simply not equipped to handle.

A very observant truth. I belong to one of those works

[BlackSepulcher]

I know of no Protestant teachers (with the possible exception of some TV speakers) who do not point their brothers to conformity with Christ and denial of self. There is a large interest in topics around simplicity, submission, gratitude, accepting and dispensing grace, Christian formation and similar concepts.

Protestants focus on what they deem 'essentials'. It works well with the personal self and perhaps the immediate people in their lives. It does not, however, do much of anything for ample unity. Such is why Protestant notions are considered highly egoistic, and lack severely in ecclesiastics.
In other words, it is clear why there are so many denominations within that brand of Christianity.

It is almost a tradition in itself that someone in one church to go start another. Even in the same denomination, they cannot remain unified. If the theological splits weren't already redundant, they'll simply split out of the pure ability to do so.

It's not as divided as you might think. There are regular prayer meetings between different denominations and independents. The divided mentally has not stopped Protestantism grow and reach more souls for Jesus. Sometimes a split is needed because God wants to get a specific work done and he chooses special forces type divisions to accomplish special missions, in which regular churches are simply not equipped to handle.

A very observant truth. I belong to one of those works

Those 'works' are pendulums in an ocean. I notice there's a church about every square mile of civilized America, all which have absolutely nothing to do with each other except maybe the occasional flicker of disapproval.

It's a mirage. The only real unity among Protestants is when it comes to bashing the evil, wicked, downright dirty, devil's church called Roman Catholicism.
Hints the name P R O T E S T A N T

[HRoberson]

Protestant isn't a name, but it is a label.

But even with all your protestation about Protestants, you have yet to deal with the existence of the Orthodox churches in their various forms, Anna's vitriol, and well, the very existence of the Lutheran church. Which came from.....wait for it.......the Roman church.

[BlackSepulcher]

Protestant isn't a name, but it is a label.

But even with all your protestation about Protestants, you have yet to deal with the existence of the Orthodox churches in their various forms, Anna's vitriol, and well, the very existence of the Lutheran church. Which came from.....wait for it.......the Roman church.

Lutheranism is the mother church of Protestantism, which is bemusing to the fact that many Protestants today don't even like Lutheran churches because they are too Catholic-like for their taste.
It just goes to show that a big factor in being against Catholicism in this day is due to arbitrary prejudice. It's almost a comedy to see them be against the very church that formed their central doctrines to begin with because of that.

But then again, the religion in general came from the Church, so imagine how the Church feels and why it should be seen as so wrong that she wouldn't want to have much to do with them.

But on the subject of Eastern Orthodox, they dissented from the Roman Church- they refused to move forward, coveting their own bishopric power. There's two sides to that coin, you can grandstand a presumed 'once and for all truth' all you want, the Church sees that as protest the same as Lutherans, Presbyterians, and so on. Hence, the label.

[mclees8]

Protestant isn't a name, but it is a label.

But even with all your protestation about Protestants, you have yet to deal with the existence of the Orthodox churches in their various forms, Anna's vitriol, and well, the very existence of the Lutheran church. Which came from.....wait for it.......the Roman church.

Lutheranism is the mother church of Protestantism, which is bemusing to the fact that many Protestants today don't even like Lutheran churches because they are too Catholic-like for their taste.
It just goes to show that a big factor in being against Catholicism in this day is due to arbitrary prejudice. It's almost a comedy to see them be against the very church that formed their central doctrines to begin with because of that.

But then again, the religion in general came from the Church, so imagine how the Church feels and why it should be seen as so wrong that she wouldn't want to have much to do with them.

But on the subject of Eastern Orthodox, they dissented from the Roman Church- they refused to move forward, coveting their own bishopric power. There's two sides to that coin, you can grandstand a presumed 'once and for all truth' all you want, the Church sees that as protest the same as Lutherans, Presbyterians, and so on. Hence, the label.

Yes I would be put off too. You see all thee grand parade and costume of outward religion is a real turn off not to mention its is counter to the church that Christ established. There is much more toit than just that though. You are just another Anna who thinks the RCC is holy and white therefore Protestants are evil and black. I say grow up.

God through Christ established His church upon the gospel message that saves us all. So at the beginning one field was planted and the field was given no name. So if no names were ever given then there would be no divisions. What made believers of the church before any these names came into being is just how God see's his church today from on high and His vision is not short . What you argue  today is about pride and prejudice. My church is better than yours. Do you think God is going to think as we do? Not for one second. The one field planted by the apostles was built upon the same confession as John 1:12 and John 3:16 is today the same one field first planted.  Did he not say that corruption would invade the field as weeds among the wheat. Yes the Lord knows all about it and the harvest is yet to come.

[HRoberson]

Yeah, I understand why the Roman church feels that the Orthodox are the schismatics; they think the same about you.

The theme in Protestant isn't anger against the church, although there are some, certainly, who so believe. These days, Protestant leaders simply don't accept the necessity of unity of structure. There is also a general rejection of both the reality of, and the so what factor about whether or not the church has always taught what she teaches.

What the Roman church believes as critical marks of the church are simply irrelevant to most Protestants. Added to that, some of your pronouncements are simply fantastic and don't pass the "does this really matter" test. In my case, the edict that makes the entire Mariology mandatory for assent is one of those.