Re: Concerned with Book found in daughters Back Pack

[chosenone]

Like, for example (if I may use it again) say instead of this book, her daughter had been reading the Satanic Bible.  Or what if it was erotica.  Would it make sense for the pastor to say, this needs to be addressed, so everyone should get a copy and read it, and then we can have a dialog?  Really?

Apples to oranges.

That is your opinion, and those who share it probably do because they like the message in the book.

But the commandment cannot be set aside.  Yes we can do good on the Lord's Day, but thinking that we can worship God through works of charity alone (the message of this book) violates the commandment to observe the "Lord's Day" as a day of rest.

If you put it in perspective, the commandments themselves have a hierarchy.  The commandment to observe a day of rest for the Lord (4th in your reckoning, likely) is above the commandment to not commit adultery (the "7th") or not covet (the "10th") (each which might be an occasion of sin for some  from reading erotica).  So to introduce the idea that it is ok to break the 4th commandment is worse than encouraging people to read erotica.

However Paul so clearly says that some will see some days as different or 'special', and some will think of each day the same, and that neither are wrong.

Interesting interpretation; but I don't think the text actually says that.  Unless you are thinking of a different text than I am.  What verse(s) are you referring to?

Romans 14v5
One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.

[Catholica]

Like, for example (if I may use it again) say instead of this book, her daughter had been reading the Satanic Bible.  Or what if it was erotica.  Would it make sense for the pastor to say, this needs to be addressed, so everyone should get a copy and read it, and then we can have a dialog?  Really?

Apples to oranges.

That is your opinion, and those who share it probably do because they like the message in the book.

But the commandment cannot be set aside.  Yes we can do good on the Lord's Day, but thinking that we can worship God through works of charity alone (the message of this book) violates the commandment to observe the "Lord's Day" as a day of rest.

If you put it in perspective, the commandments themselves have a hierarchy.  The commandment to observe a day of rest for the Lord (4th in your reckoning, likely) is above the commandment to not commit adultery (the "7th") or not covet (the "10th") (each which might be an occasion of sin for some  from reading erotica).  So to introduce the idea that it is ok to break the 4th commandment is worse than encouraging people to read erotica.

However Paul so clearly says that some will see some days as different or 'special', and some will think of each day the same, and that neither are wrong.

Interesting interpretation; but I don't think the text actually says that.  Unless you are thinking of a different text than I am.  What verse(s) are you referring to?

Romans 14v5
One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.

Right, but that is with regard to feasts and such.  The 4th commandment still stands (though now to be stood in light of the resurrection, which is rest in the Lord through worship on the Lord's day). Everyone should still be convinced of that if they read the Bible.

My belief is that in the New Covenant, every day is Holy.  We live in the perpetual "8th day", the day of the Lord.  That is one reason why the Catholic Church holds mass every day of the year.  The other reason is a fulfillment of Malachi 1:11.

[chosenone]

Like, for example (if I may use it again) say instead of this book, her daughter had been reading the Satanic Bible.  Or what if it was erotica.  Would it make sense for the pastor to say, this needs to be addressed, so everyone should get a copy and read it, and then we can have a dialog?  Really?

Apples to oranges.

That is your opinion, and those who share it probably do because they like the message in the book.

But the commandment cannot be set aside.  Yes we can do good on the Lord's Day, but thinking that we can worship God through works of charity alone (the message of this book) violates the commandment to observe the "Lord's Day" as a day of rest.

If you put it in perspective, the commandments themselves have a hierarchy.  The commandment to observe a day of rest for the Lord (4th in your reckoning, likely) is above the commandment to not commit adultery (the "7th") or not covet (the "10th") (each which might be an occasion of sin for some  from reading erotica).  So to introduce the idea that it is ok to break the 4th commandment is worse than encouraging people to read erotica.

However Paul so clearly says that some will see some days as different or 'special', and some will think of each day the same, and that neither are wrong.

Interesting interpretation; but I don't think the text actually says that.  Unless you are thinking of a different text than I am.  What verse(s) are you referring to?

Romans 14v5
One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.

Right, but that is with regard to feasts and such.  The 4th commandment still stands (though now to be stood in light of the resurrection, which is rest in the Lord through worship on the Lord's day). Everyone should still be convinced of that if they read the Bible.

My belief is that in the New Covenant, every day is Holy.  We live in the perpetual "8th day", the day of the Lord.  That is one reason why the Catholic Church holds mass every day of the year.  The other reason is a fulfillment of Malachi 1:11.

I believe that each day is holy and the same as any other. As long as we are right before God, we can each decide what we believe on this issue. I used to think that one day must be different and special, but after some time realised that was just what I has been told and not what God had said to me.

[Catholica]

Like, for example (if I may use it again) say instead of this book, her daughter had been reading the Satanic Bible.  Or what if it was erotica.  Would it make sense for the pastor to say, this needs to be addressed, so everyone should get a copy and read it, and then we can have a dialog?  Really?

Apples to oranges.

That is your opinion, and those who share it probably do because they like the message in the book.

But the commandment cannot be set aside.  Yes we can do good on the Lord's Day, but thinking that we can worship God through works of charity alone (the message of this book) violates the commandment to observe the "Lord's Day" as a day of rest.

If you put it in perspective, the commandments themselves have a hierarchy.  The commandment to observe a day of rest for the Lord (4th in your reckoning, likely) is above the commandment to not commit adultery (the "7th") or not covet (the "10th") (each which might be an occasion of sin for some  from reading erotica).  So to introduce the idea that it is ok to break the 4th commandment is worse than encouraging people to read erotica.

However Paul so clearly says that some will see some days as different or 'special', and some will think of each day the same, and that neither are wrong.

Interesting interpretation; but I don't think the text actually says that.  Unless you are thinking of a different text than I am.  What verse(s) are you referring to?

Romans 14v5
One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.

Right, but that is with regard to feasts and such.  The 4th commandment still stands (though now to be stood in light of the resurrection, which is rest in the Lord through worship on the Lord's day). Everyone should still be convinced of that if they read the Bible.

My belief is that in the New Covenant, every day is Holy.  We live in the perpetual "8th day", the day of the Lord.  That is one reason why the Catholic Church holds mass every day of the year.  The other reason is a fulfillment of Malachi 1:11.

I believe that each day is holy and the same as any other. As long as we are right before God, we can each decide what we believe on this issue. I used to think that one day must be different and special, but after some time realised that was just what I has been told and not what God had said to me.

Yes, yet God created the concept of Sabbath for man, and commanded us to rest one day a week and also showed us how to worship him in the new covenant and demonstrated it in the New Testament.

To cast aside worship in for the sake of God on a weekly basis is a sin. And this book glorifies the committing of that sin.

[geneh_33]

Acts 2:42 says, "42 And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers."

How will you devote yourself to fellowship and the breaking of bread when you don't go to church?

Why did Paul spend all of his time establishing churches if we don't need them?

[Willie T]

Well, this book will not go away.  Our pastor made some veiled references to it in his Wednesday Service.   Afterward a few of us discussed over coffee.    Much like this forum there were a few parents that disagreed with my tactics.  But we all agree it is unsettling how quickly  this book came out of nowhere and was disseminated  through our youth group. Our pastor's response was "God places obstacles not to stop us,  but to strengthen us by overcoming them. We must seize this opportunity not for judgment  but for counsel.  We must replace our resentment with compassion. "   He urged, as his wife had done to me, for all of us to read it.  (Ironic that a book I loathe because of its attack on church is being encouraged to be read in church).   Currently the plan is to continue to focus on the "Good Works" portion of this book both  verbally and in practice.   But he was adamant that we can not ignore  the author's this person with a computer's manipulation, but we must be delicate on how we proceed.   There was some discussion on allowing the children an opportunity to speak openly about  this book that may very well be the outcome.

I was reluctant to make this post because of some of the comments I have received in this forum.   But I have included this forum from the beginning and I felt it would have been cowardly not to continue.   Even though I know many will see an opportunity to say I told you so based on my pastor's response.  While I will always see this book as meritless, I do  have an immense level of respect for both my Pastor and his Wife.

Sounds like you have a pretty wise Pastor.

[chosenone]

Like, for example (if I may use it again) say instead of this book, her daughter had been reading the Satanic Bible.  Or what if it was erotica.  Would it make sense for the pastor to say, this needs to be addressed, so everyone should get a copy and read it, and then we can have a dialog?  Really?

Apples to oranges.

That is your opinion, and those who share it probably do because they like the message in the book.

But the commandment cannot be set aside.  Yes we can do good on the Lord's Day, but thinking that we can worship God through works of charity alone (the message of this book) violates the commandment to observe the "Lord's Day" as a day of rest.

If you put it in perspective, the commandments themselves have a hierarchy.  The commandment to observe a day of rest for the Lord (4th in your reckoning, likely) is above the commandment to not commit adultery (the "7th") or not covet (the "10th") (each which might be an occasion of sin for some  from reading erotica).  So to introduce the idea that it is ok to break the 4th commandment is worse than encouraging people to read erotica.

However Paul so clearly says that some will see some days as different or 'special', and some will think of each day the same, and that neither are wrong.

Interesting interpretation; but I don't think the text actually says that.  Unless you are thinking of a different text than I am.  What verse(s) are you referring to?

Romans 14v5
One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.

Right, but that is with regard to feasts and such.  The 4th commandment still stands (though now to be stood in light of the resurrection, which is rest in the Lord through worship on the Lord's day). Everyone should still be convinced of that if they read the Bible.

My belief is that in the New Covenant, every day is Holy.  We live in the perpetual "8th day", the day of the Lord.  That is one reason why the Catholic Church holds mass every day of the year.  The other reason is a fulfillment of Malachi 1:11.

I believe that each day is holy and the same as any other. As long as we are right before God, we can each decide what we believe on this issue. I used to think that one day must be different and special, but after some time realised that was just what I has been told and not what God had said to me.

Yes, yet God created the concept of Sabbath for man, and commanded us to rest one day a week and also showed us how to worship him in the new covenant and demonstrated it in the New Testament.

To cast aside worship in for the sake of God on a weekly basis is a sin. And this book glorifies the committing of that sin.

I still worship God with other people, either Sundays or a weekday, I just don't think of that day as any more godly or special than any other day. To me God is with me 24/7 and so why is one day more special than any other?
At the moment my main 'church' is a Wednesday evening, when I get together with a group of believers and we praise and worship God and pray together. 

Paul tells us that neither are right or wrong, but that we must all know in our own minds what we believe about the different days and why.

[Willie T]

I still worship God with other people, either Sundays or a weekday, I just don't think of that day as any more godly or special than any other day. To me God is with me 24/7 and so why is one day more special than any other?
At the moment my main 'church' is a Wednesday evening, when I get together with a group of believers and we praise and worship God and pray together. 

Paul tells us that neither are right or wrong, but that we must all know in our own minds what we believe about the different days and why.

You are so correct, ChosenOne.

And I can't believe that so many people could totally miss the point of this little book, by trying to make it about specific "days" to declare as days to worship..... instead of the search of a man dissatisfied with the phoniness he sees in church, actually trying to serve Jesus (or, in the case of this confused little book, "God".), rather than just "assembling" to sit in a pew through another meaningless (to him) sermon.

[Carey]

Acts 2:42 says, "42 And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers."

How will you devote yourself to fellowship and the breaking of bread when you don't go to church?

Fellowship, worship, and breaking of bread can be done without going to church, rather the church going with you. 

Why did Paul spend all of his time establishing churches if we don't need them?

We needed them and we need them today.

[geneh_33]

Acts 2:42 says, "42 And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers."

How will you devote yourself to fellowship and the breaking of bread when you don't go to church?

Fellowship, worship, and breaking of bread can be done without going to church, rather the church going with you. 

Why did Paul spend all of his time establishing churches if we don't need them?

We needed them and we need them today.

"the church going with you" is going to church. And yes, we need churches very much.

[Willie T]

Acts 2:42 says, "42 And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers."

How will you devote yourself to fellowship and the breaking of bread when you don't go to church?

Fellowship, worship, and breaking of bread can be done without going to church, rather the church going with you. 

Why did Paul spend all of his time establishing churches if we don't need them?

We needed them and we need them today.

"the church going with you" is going to church. And yes, we need churches very much.

Exactly why this author thought this little book needed printing.  Like me (and many others) he sensed this "flocking to sit together in pews" is all wrong, if that is where you leave Jesus...... as so many seem to do..

[LovesBNAmom]

The youth group had their discussion last night.  My daughter asked her father to attend which he did and I did not.   While the book's influence was successfully quarantined to only 4 or 5 children the participation was far greater  not counting the parents that attended.  My friend explained that while her husband initially thought they would address the contents of this book and their concerns,  he had a change of heart.   He didn't mention the book but utilized the "Positive notion of Good Works" .    This prompted those that had read the book including my daughter to offer examples of ways they could help. 

In the end Both She and her husband felt this book represented a failure not in the children but in us.  That these Kids are looking to put their faith into practice without preaching.  To be Christian not just in the words they say or the way they act, but in the good they do.    I am quite torn.  I still opposed this book and find the message so tainted and distorted that I find this approach very confusing.   My daughter did apologize for hiding it from me and her father's opinion was – while he is not  a fan of this book either  there are far worse things she could have grabbed off the internet. 

[geneh_33]

Acts 2:42 says, "42 And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers."

How will you devote yourself to fellowship and the breaking of bread when you don't go to church?

Fellowship, worship, and breaking of bread can be done without going to church, rather the church going with you. 

Why did Paul spend all of his time establishing churches if we don't need them?

We needed them and we need them today.

"the church going with you" is going to church. And yes, we need churches very much.

Exactly why this author thought this little book needed printing.  Like me (and many others) he sensed this "flocking to sit together in pews" is all wrong, if that is where you leave Jesus...... as so many seem to do..

The little book's author is clearly trying to show that any and all religioius activity is a crock. It's an atheist's handbook.

[chosenone]

The youth group had their discussion last night.  My daughter asked her father to attend which he did and I did not.   While the book's influence was successfully quarantined to only 4 or 5 children the participation was far greater  not counting the parents that attended.  My friend explained that while her husband initially thought they would address the contents of this book and their concerns,  he had a change of heart.   He didn't mention the book but utilized the "Positive notion of Good Works" .    This prompted those that had read the book including my daughter to offer examples of ways they could help. 

In the end Both She and her husband felt this book represented a failure not in the children but in us.  That these Kids are looking to put their faith into practice without preaching.  To be Christian not just in the words they say or the way they act, but in the good they do.    I am quite torn.  I still opposed this book and find the message so tainted and distorted that I find this approach very confusing.   My daughter did apologize for hiding it from me and her father's opinion was – while he is not  a fan of this book either  there are far worse things she could have grabbed off the internet. 

Her father is right.

[MeMyself]

In the end Both She and her husband felt this book represented a failure not in the children but in us.  That these Kids are looking to put their faith into practice without preaching.  To be Christian not just in the words they say or the way they act, but in the good they do.

If that is what this all boils down to, if that is where the heart of the kids who were reading the book were coming from, I am *SO* glad adults in charge could take a moment to listen to them, hear them and make changes.  A Christian life unexamined is a sad shallow thing, kudos to these kids for wanting to *be* the hands and feet of Jesus to their community and not just sit glassy eyed through service on Sunday, and live like h*ll the rest of the week!  What an amazing group of young people!

 

My daughter did apologize for hiding it from me and her father's opinion was – while he is not  a fan of this book either  there are far worse things she could have grabbed off the internet. 

OH my GOSH, yes!  He is SO right. You have a wonderful girl, who loves the Lord and longs to serve Him on a deeper more real level.  She is making her faith her own! That is reason to stand and shout praise and thanks to God!

God bless.