Married Priests? Communion for divorcees?

[DaveW]

I am surprized no one here has commented on this.  The Magazine section of this website has a link to the story and I repeat that link HERE:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2972258/Pope-wants-scrap-centuries-old-ban-priests-marrying-told-divorced-woman-living-sin-receive-Holy-Communion-claims-confidante.html

[Ladonia]

I wouldn't have a problem with married priests and the church should really consider this. As for the divorced woman receiving communion, as long as she hasn't remarried there shouldn't be a problem there either. If remarried, she would need an annulment as specified by the teaching of the church to receive the sacraments.

We must take into account that this is only a claim by someone out of the blue, but if true Pope Francis is once again only trying to be a caring pastor to his flock. We can only wait and see what happens in the future.

[chosenone]

I wouldn't have a problem with married priests and the church should really consider this. As for the divorced woman receiving communion, as long as she hasn't remarried there shouldn't be a problem there either. If remarried, she would need an annulment as specified by the teaching of the church to receive the sacraments.

We must take into account that this is only a claim by someone out of the blue, but if true Pope Francis is once again only trying to be a caring pastor to his flock. We can only wait and see what happens in the future.

As far as I can tell she is divorced but now living with another man(not married). Its wrong of her to be living with another man outside marriage. 
However, where does the Bible say that a previously divorced person shouldnt take communion?

I so agree with the married priest thing, that's also totally unbiblical, and probably why a large percentage of American priests are gay.

[winsome]

We must take into account that this is only a claim by someone out of the blue.....

Also it's in the Daily Mail -  An English (newspaper) equivalent of Fox News.

[Ladonia]

Chosenone, where did you get the information for your claim that a large percentage of American priests are gay?

[kensington]

I disagree that a divorced woman cannot take communion in general.  If she is divorced by no sin of her own, or against her will, abandoned and remarries, she is free to take communion.

Why should she annul someone who walked out on her and divorced her? 

That annulment thing has set too many guilty of the sin of divorcing for their own sin free to remarry and take communion.  The very LEAST the church can do is allow someone divorced for no sin of their own to take communion.  I believe the church has not only erred in this, but they have sinned.

I am not convinced that the forbidding of marriage for priests has caused them to be gay.  But, without a doubt it contributed to those behaviors and sins in the priests who molested thousands of young boys.  Absolutely.  Another area the Catholic Church has sinned, all they shall stand before the Judgment Seat Of Christ for it. I have no doubt. 

[chosenone]

I disagree that a divorced woman cannot take communion in general.  If she is divorced by no sin of her own, or against her will, abandoned and remarries, she is free to take communion.

Why should she annul someone who walked out on her and divorced her? 

That annulment thing has set too many guilty of the sin of divorcing for their own sin free to remarry and take communion.  The very LEAST the church can do is allow someone divorced for no sin of their own to take communion.  I believe the church has not only erred in this, but they have sinned.

I am not convinced that the forbidding of marriage for priests has caused them to be gay.  But, without a doubt it contributed to those behaviors and sins in the priests who molested thousands of young boys.  Absolutely.  Another area the Catholic Church has sinned, all they shall stand before the Judgment Seat Of Christ for it. I have no doubt.

No it hasnt caused them to be gay, but religious gay men have been attracted to the priesthood because they know they cant marry.Just as it has attracted child abusers.

An annulment is merely divorce by another means, and unless there has been no sex, an annulment isnt valid anyway. Its saying 'well we arent allowed to divorce, so we get divorced anyway and call it an annulment.'

[mclees8]

I wouldn't have a problem with married priests and the church should really consider this. As for the divorced woman receiving communion, as long as she hasn't remarried there shouldn't be a problem there either. If remarried, she would need an annulment as specified by the teaching of the church to receive the sacraments.

We must take into account that this is only a claim by someone out of the blue, but if true Pope Francis is once again only trying to be a caring pastor to his flock. We can only wait and see what happens in the future.

As far as I can tell she is divorced but now living with another man(not married). Its wrong of her to be living with another man outside marriage. 
However, where does the Bible say that a previously divorced person shouldnt take communion?

I so agree with the married priest thing, that's also totally unbiblical, and probably why a large percentage of American priests are gay.

I find it almost preposterous and unbelievable that a priest or any minister of Christ as being gay.  It is outright and blatantly immoral. No wonder the Lord said not all who say Lord Lord will enter into the kingdom. They worship but their hearts are from me. Often ordinations are just a vain show for men. A worthless plaque that hangs on office walls

[chosenone]

Isnt there a difference between being gay and acting on it?

[Ladonia]

Kensington said: "Another area the Catholic Church has sinned, all they shall stand before the Judgment Seat Of Christ for it. I have no doubt". 

It is not a sin to listen to the words of St. Paul as written in the Holy Scriptures and proclaim the rule of the Church as it applies to ministers. The only sin here would be with the individual priest who commits the sin. But I am not surprised with your words, as you never miss any opportunity to denigrate the Holy Catholic Church.

[kensington]

The Hierarchy of the Church allowed and even aided in the covering up of the sins, moving priest and allowing them to remain in the robe to continue on and sin again and again... knowingly.  They sinned in hiding it and allowing them to stay in the priesthood to seek victims again and again.

Exactly where did Paul say that was OKay?  Please give chapter and verse where Paul said to cover sins, and to allow those in sin to continue in leadership and authority over those they have sinned against?  _Please chapter and verse.

You say that you are not surprised by my words...  nor am I surprised that you are blinded by your loyalty to your religion to the point you can't see the truth in front of you. 

The RULE of the church...  put on blinders to children being molested by priests and aided the priest in continuing the sin...  I challenge anyone to provide a scripture reference or instruction for that.  If you can, I will admit my error. 

Everyone one of those who turned their eye are as guilty as those who sinned.  The very highest one in the hierarchy who turned his eye once... be he a priest or a Bishop or even a Pope will answer to the Judgment Seat of Christ...

Just as Christ proclaimed in Mark 9:42 ""Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe to stumble, it would be better for him if, with a heavy millstone hung around his neck, he had been cast into the sea."

They will not escape... leadership demands holiness, and sacrifice, and guts.  They failed, they sinned, countless children were offended and sinned against, Jesus (Not Paul) said NO ONE gets away with that.

Don't blame me...  Jesus said it. 

[kensington]

On the topic of communion for a divorced person, I do not believe the church has a right or the authority to deny communion to anyone.  As communion is personal and the instruction from Christ on communion was personal. Each one must search their own heart and take or abstain.

The admonition of not taking it unworthily had nothing to do with the Church leadership. It had to do with the behavior of those gathering to eat and drink and take communion. That they were eating too much and getting drunk. Like it was a party.  It had to do with their selfish attitudes. (I Corinthians 11)

The church seems to think they are suppose to govern your lives and your walk. They are not, the word of God and the Holy Spirit are supposed to do that. 

[chosenone]

I am sure there are many who take communion who have hidden unconfessed and on going sins.

[DaveW]

On the topic of communion for a divorced person, I do not believe the church has a right or the authority to deny communion to anyone.  As communion is personal and the instruction from Christ on communion was personal. Each one must search their own heart and take or abstain.

This shows 2 misunderstandings.  One: on the authority and responsibility of congregational leadership; and Two: the function of communion.

First - all congregational leaders are held responsible BEFORE GOD for the actions of their congregants.

Heb 13.17 Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you.

This calling into account is just like Abraham being called into account for Sarah laughing at the words of the angel even when he did not know about it.

Gen 18.9 Then they said to him, "Where is Sarah your wife?" And he said, "There, in the tent." 10 He said, "I will surely return to you at this time next year; and behold, Sarah your wife will have a son." And Sarah was listening at the tent door, which was behind him. 11 Now Abraham and Sarah were old, advanced in age; Sarah was past childbearing. 12 Sarah laughed to herself, saying, "After I have become old, shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?" 13 And the Lord said to Abraham, "Why did Sarah laugh, saying, 'Shall I indeed bear a child, when I am so old?' 14 Is anything too difficult for the Lord? At the appointed time I will return to you, at this time next year, and Sarah will have a son."

Second - communion is NOT an individual thing.  It is a covenant meal and reaffirms the covenant commitment, not only to the Lord but with every one we partake with.  "Not discerning the body" is not just refering to the slain body of Messiah - it also from the context is refering to the body of believers. 

1 Corinthians 11:29  For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

And a few verses later:

1 Corinthians 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually.

Yes - the decision to take or abstain is to one degree personal.  If we know we have unresolved and unconfessed sin, we should abstain.  Also if we have aught against our brother we should abstain.  But the church leadership has the authority to tell you to not take if they see a problem as well.

And that has nothing to do with being catholic.  Every baptist and methodist and presbyterian and free-for-all pentecostal pastor should excercise that same authority.

[Ladonia]

Kensington, the Church has apologized and given redress for it's failures concerning the issue. Guess you missed that. How many times should we forgive, seven times seven, or seventy times seven? Jesus said that. But to you none of that matters  as your disdain of the Catholic Church knows no bounds.

[DaveW]

I see these changes as very positive. 

[kensington]

I know a bit more about what happened and what still happens and what happened behind the scenes than you might thing. 

Apologizing is nice, and paying money is nice.. but keeping those who committed the acts against innocent children in the robe or even in the congregation is heinous. The church protected them and very few were presented to be prosecuted. 

I do not distain the Catholic Church, I distain the lies and sins of the Catholic Church, the hypocrisy of claiming to be the true church, the only church while also being the largest organization in the world with hidden sin. 

Dave W...   Communion is a personal thing, the church is called to do in fellowship with Christ.  It is not the church's place to spy on people and point them out and tell them they are not worthy to take communion.  I really must laugh when you say it's the church charged before God to tell you if you can or cannot take communion.  That is not even what the scripture you posted said.

It said that "WE" are to submit to our leadership...   They made a blanket rule and did not trust the Lord, or the people.  The admonishment was to the individual believer, concerning the local leadership...   NOT a huge hierarchy that made a mass rule for people they are not personally involved with on any level. 

But, you also misunderstood what I said about the divorced person concerning communion.  Where did Jesus say that a divorced person was not in fellowship with him, or unworthy of communion?  The scriptures of what he called "unworthy" in the instruction had NOTHING to do with such things, but the behaviors of those gathering to take communion at the time. They were being greedy and disrespectful when they came together.

It has NOTHING to do with someone who is the victim of Divorce due to no sin of their own.  That is just ridiculous at any level.  A person who has gone through divorce and loves and walks with God is worthy to take communion. And the church is in sin to deny them.  Ladonia accuses that I distain the church...  but it  truly these things they do I distain.  THAT needs to be clear.

[DaveW]

Of course the bible never says a divorced person cannot fully partake in congregational life (including communion) with the exception of being in congregational leadership.  (which REQUIRES one to be married)

That is why I am saying these are positive changes.

But I do think you need to understand the implications of Heb 13.7 and 17. Leaders are given broad authority that would seem very invasive to our western mindsets.

Kensi - have you ever read or heard Derek Prince teach on covenant and communion?  If not - please do so ASAP.

[Catholica]

I am surprized no one here has commented on this.  The Magazine section of this website has a link to the story and I repeat that link HERE:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2972258/Pope-wants-scrap-centuries-old-ban-priests-marrying-told-divorced-woman-living-sin-receive-Holy-Communion-claims-confidante.html

The article's title is deceiving.  It should say "pope's childhood friend claims to know Pope's future intent".  That would better describe how much this article lacks substance.

The Pope could change Church discipline and men who have been married could then enter the priesthood.  There is nothing doctrinally preventing them from doing so.  Priestly celibacy is a disicpline, and one particular to the Lain Rite.  There are already married priests in other rites of the Church.

That being said, priests being celibate is the better path.  I'm too lazy to look up the exact verse, but consider:

"Some have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom.   Those who have ears to hear should accept this."

and

An unmarried man is concerned with the ways of God, and a married man is concerned about the ways of the world and his heart is divided.



As for divorced people who are living in an illicit relationship, the Pope has no power to change the fact that they cannot receive communion.  They have unrepented sin and as far as they have been told or have come to understand that they cannot receive because of their relational situation, they cannot in good conscience receive.

1 Cor. 11
27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.

[Adamski]

Isnt there a difference between being gay and acting on it?

Andy Worhol said

"I am gay but have never acted on it because I love Jesus as my savior

[Buster D Body Crab]

Isnt there a difference between being gay and acting on it?

Andy Worhol said

"I am gay but have never acted on it because I love Jesus as my savior

True. Andy Warhol remained celibate as a Ruthenian Rite Catholic. This was something revealed in his eulogy and in the book by Jane Daggett,  The Religious Art of Andy Warhol.

[Catholica]

Isnt there a difference between being gay and acting on it?

In essence the world equates the disorder of same-sex attraction to that of acting on that same-sex attraction.  i.e. The world says that a person with same-sex attraction "IS" gay.

In fact, no person is "gay", though some do have same-sex attraction.  Each person is just a person created in the image and likeness of God, created for God's purpose.  Sex should only be understood as an allusion to the marital act.  Anything imitating the marital act but is not the marital act is depravity.

Everyone has some disorder in their soul, some attachment or weakness toward certain sins.  But that weakness doesn't mean that we "are" our weakness, just that we must overcome that weakness through Christ Jesus.