If divorced, will I go to hell?

[csp]

I know everyone probably feels differently about this:  But, How does everyone feel about divorce from a Christian standpoint?  If I wound up getting divorced due to mental/verbal abuse and lying, would I go to hell?  Would anyone be willing to explain how they feel about scripture and divorce?  My counselor says nothing about what I should do.  And I'm of course afraid I would go to hell if I finally left my husband.

[Texas Conservative]

I know everyone probably feels differently about this:  But, How does everyone feel about divorce from a Christian standpoint?  If I wound up getting divorced due to mental/verbal abuse and lying, would I go to hell?  Would anyone be willing to explain how they feel about scripture and divorce?  My counselor says nothing about what I should do.  And I'm of course afraid I would go to hell if I finally left my husband.

You won't go to hell.  Divorce is hell though.  Are there any kids involved?

There are two more conservative schools of thought on divorce in the church:

1.  There are the John Piper types and Catholics who believe marriage is life long and one is bound to their spouse regardless of sexual immorality until death.  In this view, your husband probably isn't married in the eyes of God to you anyways if he was previously married.

2.  Other conservative group:  The only scriptural reasons for ending a marriage via divorce are sexual immorality or abandonment by a non-believer.

My divorce was just finalized and it was for adultery on my ex-wife's part.

[chosenone]

Where does God say that divorce is the unforgivable sin? If you have done all you can to improve things such as counseling etc, and you and any children if you have them are badly suffering, then you can always separate and request that he make the effort to get treatment and make changes etc. The best thing is to let God lead you and seek godly advise.
What do you think God hates more, a one of his precious children being badly abused or ending a marriage?

Can you give some examples of what you mean by emotional and verbal abuse?Its just that everyone's idea of abuse is different, and I have known more than one women claim their husband was abusive merely because they wanted out of the marriage and they werent telling the truth. I am sure that isnt you BTW.

[Buster D Body Crab]

No, you won't go to Hell.

Verbal and mental abuse are just as impacting and even longer lasting in the after affects more often than not than physical abuse.

If you can't work it out, if he refuses to seek counseling, do what your heart tells you to do. Because he was like that before you met him. You deserve better than to live till the day you die being abused. Love doesn't make you hurt inside or outside. Love makes you grow not diminish in sense of self.


Prayers are with you. 

I know everyone probably feels differently about this:  But, How does everyone feel about divorce from a Christian standpoint?  If I wound up getting divorced due to mental/verbal abuse and lying, would I go to hell?  Would anyone be willing to explain how they feel about scripture and divorce?  My counselor says nothing about what I should do.  And I'm of course afraid I would go to hell if I finally left my husband.

[Red Baker]

And I'm of course afraid I would go to hell if I finally left my husband.

You can separate from anyone that is abusive~for God has called us unto peace. Separation is not sinful, but may be a godly thing to do~yet that within itself does not give you a right to remarry, if that is in your plans.  Since we do not know the details, this is all we can say at the moment. 

[LexKnight]

I know everyone probably feels differently about this:  But, How does everyone feel about divorce from a Christian standpoint?  If I wound up getting divorced due to mental/verbal abuse and lying, would I go to hell?  Would anyone be willing to explain how they feel about scripture and divorce?  My counselor says nothing about what I should do.  And I'm of course afraid I would go to hell if I finally left my husband.

The Lord hates divorces because He understand the effects of it, but at the same times sometimes it's a necessary thing in a world like this. This is what is written about divorces:

If you divorce your spouse and slept with another, it'll be counted as adultery against you, with the exception that your divorce is the result of your spouse being unfaithful to you. The Lord also said if one separates, either stay single or rejoin with your spouse.

But with this said, it's a situational thing and not a guaranteed slide to hell. You do have to consider a few things, though. Are there children involved? Is the man truly damaging you, or is it merely out of convenience to divorce? What is your intent?

A man abusing his wife will not have a well end, but there were jerks, and even sons of belial, in the Scriptures their wives stuck with and allowed the Lord to deal with. What does your conscience say, csp?

[csp]

I certainly don't want to divorce.  I want to work this out.  But I keep catching lies and it obviously hasn't changed despite counseling.  As far as abuse - it's verbal.  We can be talking, and all of a sudden - wham!   Either I said, "What?" too many times or didn't understand what he was talking about - and he gets irritated.  Maybe irritable is more the word.  He used to get mad when I'd close my eyes in the car.  Or look out the window while he talked to me.  He got mad at me when he couldn't find a station we both liked in the car.  He just gets irritated very easily.  And I never know when it's going to happen.  I usually wind up sad for a whole day on the weekend because of how he responded to me.  He told me off the other day when I asked him to not tell at other drivers when they get too close and then pass him.  He yelled out his window, and then rammed his body back and forth to get the other car's attention.  He wanted to annoy them, because they annoyed him.  He's just angry a lot.  (He got angry in counseling and got up and left.)  He doesn't like being wrong - ever!!!  He's always right, even if there's no proof.  I didn't know I married this until I made the mistake of waking him on our wedding night.  He said, "What the h- - - -?  C.?  I'm trying to sleep."  Nice to be swore at the first night of a marriage.  I could go on, but it's all little stuff - just all the time.  :(

[Spirit Filled]

I was married to a narcissist for 10 years too long. It was all about him. He walked in front of me leaving me behind once we were married. When we were dating we were holding hands because he wanted to though I didn't know that at the time.

He was a liar, a sneak, and a thief. He'd take things from the house and sell them if he needed money for what was a gambling addiction I didn't know about. He'd lie about that.
He was addicted to porn, which I didn't know until I found his stash of DVD's that included titles promising hot teen cheerleaders!
Confronting him he said that that was just a title and the women were all legal. He missed the point.

I thought we could work it out with prayer, church counseling. He refused because he was atheist and I'd found Christ after the vows. Asking him once to go to church counseling with me he said, go ahead. It was all me then. But that was because as a narcissist it was really all about him.

I learned after 10 years that I wasn't about to live to see my 80's, because we have longevity in both sides of my family and I was optimistic of living at least that long, with a man like that. He wasn't ever going to change because he was 10 years older than me when we met. He was who he was and being narcissistic and a pathological liar he wasn't able to change.

To put it simply to you, if you can't trust him to tell you the truth you can't trust him.
My pastor put that to me the third visit I had with him alone in what was suppose to be a married couples session. Sometimes God lets it get soooo bad that you realize divorce is the answer to your prayer.

Had I not dropped a man who turned into someone else the day after the honeymoon vacation ended I'd still be suffering. Because he wouldn't divorce me. That's part of narcissism. The ideology of, Mine!

Hell is a bad marriage!

I certainly don't want to divorce.  I want to work this out.  But I keep catching lies and it obviously hasn't changed despite counseling.  As far as abuse - it's verbal.  We can be talking, and all of a sudden - wham!   Either I said, "What?" too many times or didn't understand what he was talking about - and he gets irritated.  Maybe irritable is more the word.  He used to get mad when I'd close my eyes in the car.  Or look out the window while he talked to me.  He got mad at me when he couldn't find a station we both liked in the car.  He just gets irritated very easily.  And I never know when it's going to happen.  I usually wind up sad for a whole day on the weekend because of how he responded to me.  He told me off the other day when I asked him to not tell at other drivers when they get too close and then pass him.  He yelled out his window, and then rammed his body back and forth to get the other car's attention.  He wanted to annoy them, because they annoyed him.  He's just angry a lot.  (He got angry in counseling and got up and left.)  He doesn't like being wrong - ever!!!  He's always right, even if there's no proof.  I didn't know I married this until I made the mistake of waking him on our wedding night.  He said, "What the h- - - -?  C.?  I'm trying to sleep."  Nice to be swore at the first night of a marriage.  I could go on, but it's all little stuff - just all the time.  :(

[csp]

How long before you realized he was a narcissist?  Was it gradual, or right away?  Or 10 years later?  I can't tell - sometimes I think so though.  Although he does things for me as well.  Just very confused right now.

[chosenone]

csp, the only thing that will  send you to hell is if you reject what jesus has done for you.

[Spirit Filled]

Probably about 2 years in. At first I was thinking it was just me. But then the facade he put on while dating slipped more and more because a narcissist, and this is my experience speaking here, so I should say his kind of narcissist, is solely out for themselves. They are everything. And everything they do, even for others, is for their own gratification.

He was sweet and giving and attentive when we were dating. Turns out that's because he wanted to get married so he played the role to get what he wanted. But fakery is alot of work. After the marriage slowly the mask started to slip. Little things at first like not opening the car door for me. Not opening the door of the home or a public place for me. That gentleman image he'd had started to fade.

Then it went into other things. Because he got what he wanted. I was his now Sex toy, chef, housekeeper, additional wage earner in a joint family account. More money for his house. His hobbies that I didn't know about. Like gambling and porn. Huge deal breakers had that come out when dating.

He was sloppy. He'd get things out the cupboard that he needed for lunch  when he'd make his own when I was at work. He'd close the lid when done but he'd leave it out for me to put away. He'd leave wrappers from the toilet paper single role on the floor when he'd had to replace the roll so that I'd have to clean it up.
Instant gratification no clean up. It was for his use in the moment. Neatening up after wasn't his job. None of this of course was obvious while dating. Because dates end after a few hours. Facades can last that long when a narcissist has a goal in mind.

But dating doesn't let you see beyond the mask. His demeanor when his boss frustrates him, when he's lost money at the casino and is upset that his side of the account doesn't square with the bills this month, or of course his porn addiction. Porn addicts don't meet women who they've sized up as normal and then introduce themselves and their 245 XXX DVD's. 

Look it up and you'll find all the tell tale signs of narcissism. Mine was also a pathological liar. That look up will blow your mind.
He told me right when we were just about through and after I'd asked him why he lied when it was so easy to tell the truth.
His answer, he just didn't feel like hearing it.
Meaning he didn't want to deal with whatever came after telling the truth when it was a potentially bad fallout. Which for a narcissist means everything he realizes he can't control. Narcissists are control freaks.

What he was incapable of realizing was that lying ended up creating twice the weight to be dealt with. First, the weight of the realization that he lied. And secondly, reality! When the lie didn't change that and never does.

I'll save you some ticks in thinking you're going to take some time to deal with this hoping yours will change. If he's a narcissist and a pathological liar like mine was he'll never change. It isn't you that's the problem. It's him pathologically. It's a physiological thing, a pathology, that he's born with. There's something missing and the narcissism and lying pathology is what is. He'll no more change that than he can change his eye color by will. Which is what asking him to change his lying habit is doing. Asking him to exercise his will to stop lying.

He can't. That good man who's not narcissistic and a pathological liar doesn't exist in him now. I realized that near the very end and it devastated me for awhile because I'd always held out hope if I changed he'd change for me and we'd work it out together. Silly! There is no sense or understanding of us in a narcissists psyche. It is only I, me, mine. That's why the liar side is usually part of that personality. Anything to get what they want and need to lift them up.

Thank God we didn't have kids.

[csp]

Thank you.  I will look that up.  I know he has some of that - just don't know if it's enough??  He changed the minute we got married, although I had seen his temper 3 times prior to marriage.  It just wasn't at me - it was at his son and mine.  I wish I wasn't so "in-lust" with him.  I had to have him - my mistake.  Was your husband angry too?  Irritable?  Did he do things for you to get praise so he'd feel good about himself?  Mine does that quite a bit.

[Spirit Filled]

Thank you.  I will look that up.  I know he has some of that - just don't know if it's enough??  He changed the minute we got married, although I had seen his temper 3 times prior to marriage.  It just wasn't at me - it was at his son and mine.  I wish I wasn't so "in-lust" with him.  I had to have him - my mistake.  Was your husband angry too?  Irritable?  Did he do things for you to get praise so he'd feel good about himself?  Mine does that quite a bit.

I can't tell you if it's enough that's for you to decide. One thing I know is that a man will treat you how you allow yourself to be treated when he's the abusive type and if he cheats on you.

Mine graduated to verbal abuse not physical. Little things at first like the little releases of good behavior. Because the mask he put up was cultivated over two years of dating and it took time to let it slip. If he'd appeared as the boogeyman on the first night of the honeymoon and let it all out I'd have run from the room. They know that though when fakers scheme to get what they want from a woman.

You have to decide if you want to fight for it or you want to fight to survive yourself. You're all you've got in relationship in this world. If you're with a guy that has no respect for you you're single. Even if you're married.
Mine was like that. Near the end and because he knew it was over and we were going through the motions, and this is when he started cheating so he could find a replacement as soon as we were done, he told me he didn't respect me.
He said that if I really thought about it not alot of people deserve respect.  Oh yes, I knew one for certain that fit that ticket. He didn't see that though because narcissists are blind to their own faults. That was what was weird with mine.
When he'd finally come out with what was no longer the facade but the real him and keeping in mind he was a pathological liar who knew? He'd get really bold about his own introspective side. He'd let it rip. And that's how I learned he didn't respect me nor did he trust me. But that is typical of narcissists. At least mine.

And you bet I was in lust with my husband. In and out of the marriage bed that was his best quality in the long run. His looks and his prowess.  Goodness when God was handing out wide eyed drop jaw amazing good looks and body mine went in for seconds and thirds.But narcissists tend to be selfish. 

I'm not exaggerating one bit when I tell you that when we were dating, walking down the sidewalk holding hands day or night, women would pull up to the curb and lean across their passenger seat to stare at him. And some were ridiculous in throwing themselves at him while me, his wife, was right there. 

He knew! He'd been looking in the mirror all his life. He was adorable as a baby and he grew into fine as wine when he hit his 20's. By the time I met him he was convinced he was the god of gorgeous. And quite frankly he wasn't far off. But scratch beneath the surface and he was a nightmare. Self love. Narcissism. There's no room for anyone else.

Look, this is just me, but don't give your life away to a guy who's only quality is causing you to lust for him.

[csp]

Thank you for taking so much time to tell your story, Spirit Filled.  I really appreciate this.  I honestly don't know if mine is quite like yours, but there are so many times he belittles me and talks sarcastic to me.  But there are also times he helps me out.  He actually has low self esteem - unlike yours.  But I'm sure that doesn't matter in the long run.  I have a  counseling appt. for just me tomorrow night.  She has met and talked with me and my husband.  I will run it across her to see what she thinks.  I know he has narcissistic characteristics.  But he also has a caring side.  So this is hard.  He improved a lot over the past year, but then he had a set back -  I believe he's bipolar.  He had some episodes before I met him, and I believe he had a small one recently.  He got mad at me, because he insisted he was not on a "high."  I knew better.  So he cut back on Ritalin, which he's on for add.  And he got better - so far.  But his irritability is still there - especially on weekends, when we have time together.  His lies are what really get me.  They're small (small am'ts of money, etc.), but still . . . . I wanted to be his partner and team member.  I can't trust him to be a partner.  It's sad.  And all because he wants money for cigarettes, which he told me and the counselor he was down to 4.  I'm still in the process of figuring out if that's true.  I will find out this weekend when I count how many are missing over night.  (I feel terrible doing that, but he needs to know I know the truth.)  Trust is so important in a marriage, and I'm so sad this is something that is now missing.  We've been in counseling for over a year, and he was really trying.  But this "high" he just had changed so much.  :(  Thank you again, Spirit Filled.  You are really helping me get through this. 

[Spirit Filled]

You should check out the information on the internet about Ritalin. It's bad stuff. It can make someone's moods swing like crazy.

Trust is hard to get back in a marriage. Especially if it has been broken over and over by one in the couple. If yours is bipolar you're in for a rough ride if you stick it out.

I think sometimes we hold on with both hands and even wrap our legs around the relationship and dig in for dear life just to make it work. And in my case I think we lasted 10 years because I had all these ideas about what a marriage was suppose to be like. And how we were to stick together through thick and thin and the ups and downs.

And that storybook marriage that I think little girls have when they start thinking about such things has alot to do with it. We picture the ideal family and when it slips we figure we are responsible so we can get it back. But it takes two to make a marriage fail.
And dreams die hard. Dreaming of the perfect wedding, which we had, dreaming of the perfect man before that, which I thought I found, and then dreaming of the perfect marriage that lasts forever is what takes the work.

Going through that personal inventory is a real bummer. What did I do? Why is he like this now? How can I fix this? Why doesn't he like me? That's a big one right there.  When I realized my husband didn't like me the next step was easy but also the hardest. He couldn't love me when he didn't like me.

Mine was sweet too don't get me wrong. However, it didn't last. The way you say happens in your case. And I think that's because they're doing that because they know that's what we need at the time. And they know if they let us have that appearance of their caring side that'll sort of fill our tank of happiness for awhile and they can go back to being real. Which doesn't include that.

I hope the counselor gives you insight that helps. Nothing is quite so hard as being in a marriage and feeling like you're single and alone. And the more time that I wasted with someone I knew wasn't going to ever change the more time I lost in my own life being free of him and able to find the guy that was the one for me.

Update when you can. Best wishes to you.

[Texas Conservative]

You should check out the information on the internet about Ritalin. It's bad stuff. It can make someone's moods swing like crazy.

Trust is hard to get back in a marriage. Especially if it has been broken over and over by one in the couple. If yours is bipolar you're in for a rough ride if you stick it out.

I think sometimes we hold on with both hands and even wrap our legs around the relationship and dig in for dear life just to make it work. And in my case I think we lasted 10 years because I had all these ideas about what a marriage was suppose to be like. And how we were to stick together through thick and thin and the ups and downs.

And that storybook marriage that I think little girls have when they start thinking about such things has alot to do with it. We picture the ideal family and when it slips we figure we are responsible so we can get it back. But it takes two to make a marriage fail.
And dreams die hard. Dreaming of the perfect wedding, which we had, dreaming of the perfect man before that, which I thought I found, and then dreaming of the perfect marriage that lasts forever is what takes the work.

Going through that personal inventory is a real bummer. What did I do? Why is he like this now? How can I fix this? Why doesn't he like me? That's a big one right there.  When I realized my husband didn't like me the next step was easy but also the hardest. He couldn't love me when he didn't like me.

Mine was sweet too don't get me wrong. However, it didn't last. The way you say happens in your case. And I think that's because they're doing that because they know that's what we need at the time. And they know if they let us have that appearance of their caring side that'll sort of fill our tank of happiness for awhile and they can go back to being real. Which doesn't include that.

I hope the counselor gives you insight that helps. Nothing is quite so hard as being in a marriage and feeling like you're single and alone. And the more time that I wasted with someone I knew wasn't going to ever change the more time I lost in my own life being free of him and able to find the guy that was the one for me.

Update when you can. Best wishes to you.

It takes two to make a marriage work.  One person can make a marriage fail.

[csp]

Several of my Christian friends here say that God can change him.  They also say, "Be kind to him, and he'll feel guilty."  No one has told me to call him out on his lies, but to just tell him I've lost trust, because I think he's lying. They tell me that I should pray for him, because our husbands are our worst enemy. And Jesus said to pray for our enemies. But no one has told me to confront him on the issue of lying to me. I think that's interesting. Seems like they just want me to tiptoe around the real problem. I have been praying for a long time about this. I'm not really sure what God wants me to do. Does he want me to ignore it? Does he want me to say something, which would probably make things worse? Does he want me to stay no matter what? My biggest concern is that he will continue to lie, and there will be more and more lies added to these. And who knows how big the lies will be, especially since he has bipolar. Right now, I am trying to stick it out, because we are getting along well. I just don't know how long it will last, before he gets irritated with me and I have to keep my mouth shut again.

[Texas Conservative]

Several of my Christian friends here say that God can change him.  They also say, "Be kind to him, and he'll feel guilty."  No one has told me to call him out on his lies, but to just tell him I've lost trust, because I think he's lying. They tell me that I should pray for him, because our husbands are our worst enemy. And Jesus said to pray for our enemies. But no one has told me to confront him on the issue of lying to me. I think that's interesting. Seems like they just want me to tiptoe around the real problem. I have been praying for a long time about this. I'm not really sure what God wants me to do. Does he want me to ignore it? Does he want me to say something, which would probably make things worse? Does he want me to stay no matter what? My biggest concern is that he will continue to lie, and there will be more and more lies added to these. And who knows how big the lies will be, especially since he has bipolar. Right now, I am trying to stick it out, because we are getting along well. I just don't know how long it will last, before he gets irritated with me and I have to keep my mouth shut again.

Husbands are our enemy?  I wouldn't listen to anyone that said that.

[MeMyself]

Several of my Christian friends here say that God can change him.  They also say, "Be kind to him, and he'll feel guilty."  No one has told me to call him out on his lies, but to just tell him I've lost trust, because I think he's lying. They tell me that I should pray for him, because our husbands are our worst enemy. And Jesus said to pray for our enemies.

WHAT?!  That is THE craziest thing I have EVER heard!  You might need new friends!  Your husband is NOT your enemy, though he may be behaving like a jerk!  Praying is always the best option, but not from a place of seeing him as the enemy.

But no one has told me to confront him on the issue of lying to me. I think that's interesting. Seems like they just want me to tiptoe around the real problem. I have been praying for a long time about this. I'm not really sure what God wants me to do. Does he want me to ignore it? Does he want me to say something, which would probably make things worse? Does he want me to stay no matter what? My biggest concern is that he will continue to lie, and there will be more and more lies added to these. And who knows how big the lies will be, especially since he has bipolar. Right now, I am trying to stick it out, because we are getting along well. I just don't know how long it will last, before he gets irritated with me and I have to keep my mouth shut again.

Ill say it.  CONFRONT him!  Tell him you know he is lying, present the proof and then?  Expect no change, no admission, nothing but denial. He will likely be embarrassed that you are calling him on it...but THEN pray!  Pray for God's spirit to convict him and show him he is wrong and let God use your words as he will.  DO NOT NAG him over this.  Say it, rip the band-aide off and then, let God do the work.

[csp]

Thanks everyone.  You are all so helpful.  I very much appreciate this.  I believe I will confront him!  :)

[Spirit Filled]

Good luck with that. It takes two no matter which direction a marriage goes. Just remember, if you start to notice you are going numb emotionally and you can't remember who you were before him, your own identity, your own sense of self and strength, it's time to re-access your priorities.

With mine I arrived at the realization if I couldn't live living with him then for my own sake I was better off living without him. Because that was exactly what I was doing before we met. And he was who he was beneath that facade back then prior to our first hello.
That old saying about old dogs and new tricks, and leopards changing their spots?

Some men want to be who they are and they want the woman in their life to accept it no matter what. And those that are the scripture hounds that cling to the old testament morays can be dangerous. Remember that.
The old testament has horrible commands regarding how women should be treated. And some guys that are clingers to that drop their facade the fastest after they marry. Because they also believe what those scriptures say about divorce being out of the question.

At least mine wasn't one of those though I knew a woman who's husband was one. And tragically enough they had kids.   

Let us know how it goes after you confront him. I'd have thought you did that prior to seeking this advice.