The Rapture of Enoch

[jessbuds]

Genesis 5:23-25 (New International Version)
23 Altogether, Enoch lived 365 years. 24 Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him away.


Hebrews 11:5
By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death; he could not be found, because God had taken him away. For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.

[rkhufu7]

Did Enoch sin every day?  Where was his covering, so that God only saw Jesus, but not Enoch's sinful nature?

[BornToReign]

We separate ourselves from God because of our sinful nature, we are self condemning through our conscience and ashamed to walk with God because of our sins. By truly believing Christ washes away our sins our conscience is clean by faith and we are no longer ashamed to walk with God. Apparently Enoch had a clean conscience.

[llewksgood]

Let us bring condemnation upon Enoch so that we might appease our own conscience. Where, in the Bible, does it say, Enoch sinned?

[bemark]

Transrelocation  Where not just the spirit man goes but the physical body as well      He walked with God and was no more

It doesn't say he just talked with him    he actually walked with him

Maybe he just decided to stay and not come back     

Elijah was another who could go into places with just his spirit,  but also had the supernatural ability that his physical body would go as well   

What if the if whole body of Christ came into this ability      and we all disappeared at the same time ?

Unlock the ancient doors and ways of the Spirit Lord         What has been lost bring back   

[precious]

This will also happen to those alive when Jesus Christ comes back.

[grace]

Let us bring condemnation upon Enoch so that we might appease our own conscience. Where, in the Bible, does it say, Enoch sinned?

I thought all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Premise 1: Without Faith it is impossible to please God.

Premise 2: Enoch was commended as one who pleased God.

Conclusion 1:  Enoch had faith.

Premise 3:  The just shall live by faith.

Conclusion 2:  Enoch was justified by his faith.


I don't see a problem with this logic...anyone else?

[jessbuds]

I don't see a problem with this logic...anyone else?

For me it is absolutely true.

[larry2]

Quoting rkhufu7 - Did Enoch sin every day?  Where was his covering, so that God only saw Jesus, but not Enoch's sinful nature?

Response - Hebrews 9:22.  "- - - without shedding of blood is no remission."

Scripture doesn't tell when it happened, but as with Abel, there had to be shedding of blood pointing to Jesus.

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Quoting rkhufu7 - Did Enoch sin every day?  Where was his covering, so that God only saw Jesus, but not Enoch's sinful nature?

Response - Hebrews 9:22.  "- - - without shedding of blood is no remission."

Scripture doesn't tell when it happened, but as with Abel, there had to be shedding of blood pointing to Jesus.

Yeah, he must have been performing the ritual sacrifices of the Mosaic covenant even though that hadn't been established yet.

So, is this anachronistic or what?

[larry2]

Quoting Wycliffs_Shillelagh - Yeah, he (Enoch) must have been performing the ritual sacrifices of the Mosaic covenant even though that hadn't been established yet.

So, is this anachronistic or what?

Response - No, I believe Enoch followed the principles God had Abel following in presenting an offering that was respected by God.

Genesis 4:4  "And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:"
 
In Jesus' name - larry2

[Mystery Man]

Enoch did not see death.  This does not mean, that he didn't experience death.  This is where I believe that the KJV is much, much more accurate.

We know that in Adam "all" die.  That includes Enoch ! 

Remember, King David sinned, and God said that David was a man after God's own heart.

[Jimmy]

Quoting rkhufu7 - Did Enoch sin every day?  Where was his covering, so that God only saw Jesus, but not Enoch's sinful nature?

Response - Hebrews 9:22.  "- - - without shedding of blood is no remission."

Scripture doesn't tell when it happened, but as with Abel, there had to be shedding of blood pointing to Jesus.

The shedding of the blood of Jesus took was retroactive back to the very beginning.  It is sufficient.  Whatever else God asks of us is up to Him.

In some cases what God asked for seems to have been established between God and the individual as in the case of Cain and Abel, and apparently Enoch.  At other times what God asked for was more general as in the case of establishing the old covenant.

It behooves us all to look carefully to see just what God does ask of us.

[larry2]

Quoting Mystery Man - We know that in Adam "all" die.  That includes Enoch

Response - But Enoch must not have been in Adam, but in Christ when God took him.

1 Corinthians 15:22  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
 
In Jesus' name - larry2

[Mystery Man]

Quoting Mystery Man - We know that in Adam "all" die.  That includes Enoch

Response - But Enoch must not have been in Adam, but in Christ when God took him.

1 Corinthians 15:22  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
 
In Jesus' name - larry2

Larry

The phrase - "In Adam all die" means just that.  All die.  And of course Enoch was of Adam.  That is what it means.   

"In Christ" means two things.  1. Fellowship with God   2. God putting you into the body of Christ where it pleases him.

Enoch could not be "In Christ , because it was not available.  He could be in fellowship with God, but that will not omit him from his death.  All die !  God is no respector of persons.

Enoch didn't "see" death with his own eyes.  And no one found the body of Enoch.   To translate him is to take him from one place to another.  God hid his body, so that no man could find it. But Enoch still died.

[larry2]

Quoting Mystery Man - The phrase - "In Adam all die" means just that.  All die.  And of course Enoch was of Adam.  That is what it means.   

"In Christ" means two things.  1. Fellowship with God   2. God putting you into the body of Christ where it pleases him.

Enoch could not be "In Christ , because it was not available.  He could be in fellowship with God, but that will not omit him from his death.  All die !  God is no respector of persons.

Enoch didn't "see" death with his own eyes.  And no one found the body of Enoch.   To translate him is to take him from one place to another.  God hid his body, so that no man could find it. But Enoch still died.

Response - I might as well let you assume what you want to. Have a great day.

In Jesus' name - larry2

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

"See" is very often a Hebraicism that really means "to understand" or "to comprehend."  Both of these concepts are closely associated with the idea of experience in Hebrew & Greek.

In Heb 11, it means that he did not die.  Of course, that doesn't mean that he won't at some point.

[Mystery Man]

"See" is very often a Hebraicism that really means "to understand" or "to comprehend."  Both of these concepts are closely associated with the idea of experience in Hebrew & Greek.

In Heb 11, it means that he did not die.  Of course, that doesn't mean that he won't at some point.

OOOOOHHHHH trust me when I say , he is dead !   

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

"See" is very often a Hebraicism that really means "to understand" or "to comprehend."  Both of these concepts are closely associated with the idea of experience in Hebrew & Greek.

In Heb 11, it means that he did not die.  Of course, that doesn't mean that he won't at some point.

OOOOOHHHHH trust me when I say , he is dead !  

Why would I do that when the text plainly says otherwise?  When there are books written about the subject of what came next?

[Mystery Man]

"See" is very often a Hebraicism that really means "to understand" or "to comprehend."  Both of these concepts are closely associated with the idea of experience in Hebrew & Greek.

In Heb 11, it means that he did not die.  Of course, that doesn't mean that he won't at some point.

OOOOOHHHHH trust me when I say , he is dead !  

Why would I do that when the text plainly says otherwise?  When there are books written about the subject of what came next?

In Adam all die.  It is as simple as that.  All of mankind is of Adam.  We all die because of the sin of Adam.  No one is excluded - None !

[dan p]

Genesis 5:23-25 (New International Version)
23 Altogether, Enoch lived 365 years. 24 Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him away.


Hebrews 11:5
By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death; he could not be found, because God had taken him away. For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.

Hi . You are saying that there was a rapture BEFORE the rapture of 1 Cor 15:51-53 , or before 1 Thess 4:13-18 .

The Pauline so-called rapture was part of Paul's message and was not known in the Old Testament .

When Enoch was Taken  up he had to die , because NO ONE CAN STAND BEFORE  God and live .

That why Jesus had to have a special body prepared for Him , before he could walk among men per Phil 2:7 .

[jessbuds]

Well i believe Enoch and Elijah will come back as the two witnesses and then die and then brought to life again. These two are the only person who were alive when taken to heaven right?

[larry2]

1 Corinthians 15:52.  In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17.  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.   

As to the question that in Adam all die pertains to all in Christ, who are they that remain alive to be caught up? Do they have to die on the way up?

In Jesus' name - larry2

[dan p]

Genesis 5:23-25 (New International Version)
23 Altogether, Enoch lived 365 years. 24 Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him away.


Hebrews 11:5
By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death; he could not be found, because God had taken him away. For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.

1) I  know that most people know that the word " Rapture " is not a Biblical word .

2) The Biblical word for falling away is " Departure " of the Body of Christ .

3) So that means that the departure of the Body of Christ can Only be talking about the Body of Christ , and the " Rapture of Enoch " is not a correct  Translation .

4) The Greek word that is used here is the METATHESIS , which means to " change position , transfer , transformation , removal .

5) Enoch did not die a normal death , but he did die , for no one can see God in the flesh and live , so their had to be  TRANSFORMATION .

6) In John 1:18 , No man has seen God at any time , and Christ had to empty Himself of all Glory and have a body prepared , so He could walk and then die for man , Phil 2:7,8 .