Proclaiming the Sabbath more fully at the End Time

[beam]

Amo wrote:

Mt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Hi Amo,
You left all of the above out. You did so because it does not suggest what you have above. It specifically states tat the law will not change till all be fulfilled which will not happen until heaven and earth pass. It then specifically states that anyone who breaks or teaches the breaking of any of the commandments will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. You may choose to ignore certain parts of our Lord and Saviors testimonies in order to support your own personal views you wish, and call it simple, but I and many others think this very unwise. Even extremely unhealthy.

Hi Amo, if you are, in fact, correct in your interpretation of the above scripture then you would, in fact, be under every jot and tittle of  the old covenant.  Not one jot nor one tittle means that all 613 laws of the Sinai covenant are still enforced until Heaven and Earth pass away.    You cannot have it both ways my friend.  You cannot ignore the book of the Law's 603 commands.  Do you get my point?

[Amo]

Amo wrote:Hi Amo, if you are, in fact, correct in your interpretation of the above scripture then you would, in fact, be under every jot and tittle of  the old covenant.  Not one jot nor one tittle means that all 613 laws of the Sinai covenant are still enforced until Heaven and Earth pass away.    You cannot have it both ways my friend.  You cannot ignore the book of the Law's 603 commands.  Do you get my point?

Mt 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. 36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. 37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Mt 24:1And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Joh 4:19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

There goes the temple and its services, and therefore all the ceremonial laws connected with it. You are simply wrong. Shall I show you more NT scripture pointing out OT laws being changed or done away with? Does our Lord and Savior contradict Himself? If He spoke of all the laws you demand He did in the verses under examination, then yes, His testimony does contradict itself. I understand this may be acceptable to you in order to believe as you wish, I and others do not agree. You cannot and will not change laws which God Himself spoke into existence. They are His laws, and only He can change them. All attempts by fallen humanity to do so, are in fact anti-christ. Go to, serve your master.

[beam]

There goes the temple and its services, and therefore all the ceremonial laws connected with it. You are simply wrong. Shall I show you more NT scripture pointing out OT laws being changed or done away with? Does our Lord and Savior contradict Himself? If He spoke of all the laws you demand He did in the verses under examination, then yes, His testimony does contradict itself. I understand this may be acceptable to you in order to believe as you wish, I and others do not agree. You cannot and will not change laws which God Himself spoke into existence. They are His laws, and only He can change them. All attempts by fallen humanity to do so, are in fact anti-christ. Go to, serve your master.

Hi Amo,  I am not letting you off that easy, my friend.  Jesus didn't lie.  Your scenario makes Jesus a liar.  Now come on, Amo, you are using Jesus Matt 5 statement to claim that the law is still enforce and then go on to tell us that part of it isn't.  What does NOT ONE JOT OR ONE TITTLE MEAN?  You even used Jesus word about Heaven and Earth passing to prove your point that the Law is still ruling over man. 

Wouldn't it be much simpler to understand that Jesus used a qualifier when He said: "until".  The fact is that Heaven and Earth passing is a metaphor and not an actual event.  Your argument is trying to convince us that the Law with its Sabbath command is still binding.   Jesus came to fulfill, bring to an end, the Sinai covenant.  The Sinai covenant was an "IF" covenant.  Israel broke their part of the agreement and the final demise of the covenant happened at Calvary.  The Temple curtain was rent indicating the end of the Levitical priesthood and Jesus becoming our High Priest.  Where ther is a change in the priesthood there is a change in the Law.  Heb 7:12  For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.  Jesus, at His death, ratified the New and better Covenant with His own blood.  Pretty simple isn't it.  No more Old Covenant, no more Sabbath requirements.

[Amo]

Hi Amo,  I am not letting you off that easy, my friend.  Jesus didn't lie.  Your scenario makes Jesus a liar.  Now come on, Amo, you are using Jesus Matt 5 statement to claim that the law is still enforce and then go on to tell us that part of it isn't.  What does NOT ONE JOT OR ONE TITTLE MEAN?  You even used Jesus word about Heaven and Earth passing to prove your point that the Law is still ruling over man. 

Wouldn't it be much simpler to understand that Jesus used a qualifier when He said: "until".  The fact is that Heaven and Earth passing is a metaphor and not an actual event.  Your argument is trying to convince us that the Law with its Sabbath command is still binding.   Jesus came to fulfill, bring to an end, the Sinai covenant.  The Sinai covenant was an "IF" covenant.  Israel broke their part of the agreement and the final demise of the covenant happened at Calvary.  The Temple curtain was rent indicating the end of the Levitical priesthood and Jesus becoming our High Priest.  Where ther is a change in the priesthood there is a change in the Law.  Heb 7:12  For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.  Jesus, at His death, ratified the New and better Covenant with His own blood.  Pretty simple isn't it.  No more Old Covenant, no more Sabbath requirements.

I didn't say anything about Jesus being a liar, again these are your words not mine. Your attempts to control or manipulate the parameters of our debate by manipulating my words as you see fit, or adding words and or ideas to what I have stated, are useless. You will not contain me within the box of your own, as I see it, warped perception. My point was that Jesus did not contradict Himself as you claim, not that He didn't lie. I never said or intended such?

The idea that I need to be let off of anything by you, is in your own head alone. Again, just some simple facts that disturb your claims of simplicity. According to scripture the Sabbath was established before either of the covenants, and will be observed after both have ended.

Those of the faith before the OC you refer to established with Israel, were only privy to God's designs because they kept His commandments, and those of this NC are also said to keep His commandments.

Gen 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; 5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

The passing away of this world is not a metaphor but in your own mind, as a result of rejecting truth and choosing to defend lies. You must make it so, to defend your position. This is your testimony in defense of the same, not the testimony of scripture.

Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

2 Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. 6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

Why do you separate Jesus' statement regarding the passing away of heaven and earth from the above scriptural testimony? Is it not in order to defend what you ave chosen? You must separate them, and insist that they are separate, to defend your position. It is not logical to do so, it is simply necessary to your position to do so. Are all the above statements of scripture simply metaphor?

[beam]

I didn't say anything about Jesus being a liar, again these are your words not mine.

Yes, that is true.  You made Him out a liar when you wrote that the ceremonial part of the Law ended with the destruction of Jerusalem.  If you insist on believing not one jot nor one tittle can pass from the Sinai covenant and deny the word "until" and then tell us the ceremonial part of the law ended you make Jesus out a liar.

Your attempts to control or manipulate the parameters of our debate by manipulating my words as you see fit, or adding words and or ideas to what I have stated, are useless. You will not contain me within the box of your own, as I see it, warped perception. My point was that Jesus did not contradict Himself as you claim, not that He didn't lie. I never said or intended such?

Flop,  We all know Jesus didn't contradict Himself.  You did the contradicting.  First, you denied the word "until" and then denied not one jot or tittle passing from the Sinai covenant.  Furthermore, in your statement below you deny that "Heaven and Earth passing away is a metaphor.  All this to try to defend your churches false belief.  I am amazed.

The idea that I need to be let off of anything by you, is in your own head alone. Again, just some simple facts that disturb your claims of simplicity. According to scripture the Sabbath was established before either of the covenants, and will be observed after both have ended.

Another false belief your church is promoting.  Where there is no law there is no sin.  There was no command for man to observe any day until after the Red Sea.   If there were a command to observe the Sabbath why didn't God stop the Exodus during the escape and have the Israelites observe it?

Those of the faith before the OC you refer to established with Israel, were only privy to God's designs because they kept His commandments, and those of this NC are also said to keep His commandments.

Gen 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; 5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Who has given you or your church the right to put a 10 in front of commandments and spread this falsehood to all you and your church has spread it?   That is adding to scripture.

The passing away of this world is not a metaphor but in your own mind, as a result of rejecting truth and choosing to defend lies. You must make it so, to defend your position. This is your testimony in defense of the same, not the testimony of scripture.

You can deny all you want, tell me it is in my mind and that I am rejecting truth and defending lies all you want.  The fact is that you have your head in the sand.  Until you recognize the word "fulfill" you will be denying the real truth.  The 10 commandments have been done away as the guide of the Israelites and the Holy Spirit, the gift given to all mankind, is now our guide into righteousness.  Simple isn't it?

Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Quoting Isiah really doesn't impress me.  In chapter 65 he writes that man will live to be over 100 before he dies and some other statements that are not congruent to what we believe.  He writes that we won't remember, but then writes that we will go out on the Sabbath and walk among the worm-ridden bodies of those that didn't make it to Heaven.
2 Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. 6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.[/color]

Why do you separate Jesus' statement regarding the passing away of heaven and earth from the above scriptural testimony? Is it not in order to defend what you ave chosen? You must separate them, and insist that they are separate, to defend your position. It is not logical to do so, it is simply necessary to your position to do so. Are all the above statements of scripture simply metaphor?
[/quote]Quote all you want, but you have not proved that Heaven and Earth has to pass before the old covenant ends because you refuse to accept  18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Either all the law is still intact or all the law has been fulfilled.  Believe that truth and it will unshackle you from the clutches of Adventism

[Amo]

Yes, that is true.  You made Him out a liar when you wrote that the ceremonial part of the Law ended with the destruction of Jerusalem.  If you insist on believing not one jot nor one tittle can pass from the Sinai covenant and deny the word "until" and then tell us the ceremonial part of the law ended you make Jesus out a liar.

Flop,  We all know Jesus didn't contradict Himself.  You did the contradicting.  First, you denied the word "until" and then denied not one jot or tittle passing from the Sinai covenant.  Furthermore, in your statement below you deny that "Heaven and Earth passing away is a metaphor.  All this to try to defend your churches false belief.  I am amazed.
Another false belief your church is promoting.  Where there is no law there is no sin.  There was no command for man to observe any day until after the Red Sea.   If there were a command to observe the Sabbath why didn't God stop the Exodus during the escape and have the Israelites observe it?
Who has given you or your church the right to put a 10 in front of commandments and spread this falsehood to all you and your church has spread it?   That is adding to scripture.
You can deny all you want, tell me it is in my mind and that I am rejecting truth and defending lies all you want.  The fact is that you have your head in the sand.  Until you recognize the word "fulfill" you will be denying the real truth.  The 10 commandments have been done away as the guide of the Israelites and the Holy Spirit, the gift given to all mankind, is now our guide into righteousness.  Simple isn't it?

Quoting Isiah really doesn't impress me.  In chapter 65 he writes that man will live to be over 100 before he dies and some other statements that are not congruent to what we believe.  He writes that we won't remember, but then writes that we will go out on the Sabbath and walk among the worm-ridden bodies of those that didn't make it to Heaven.
2 Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. 6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.[/color]

Why do you separate Jesus' statement regarding the passing away of heaven and earth from the above scriptural testimony? Is it not in order to defend what you ave chosen? You must separate them, and insist that they are separate, to defend your position. It is not logical to do so, it is simply necessary to your position to do so. Are all the above statements of scripture simply metaphor?
Quote all you want, but you have not proved that Heaven and Earth has to pass before the old covenant ends because you refuse to accept  18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Either all the law is still intact or all the law has been fulfilled.  Believe that truth and it will unshackle you from the clutches of Adventism

I leave you to your delusions. Concerning both what scripture says, and what you continue to say I am saying.

[beam]

Hi Amo, Thanks for the debate.  I thank the Lord that you couldn't dispute my beliefs.  I sincerely would not want to have to go back under the dictates of Ellen White and the SDA church.  When I left Adventism I discovered that I was free in Jesus.  No one looking in my grocery cart for food that Ellen deemed unfit, no more being judged at Bible study and Sabbath School for different thoughts on scripture.  No more paying the demanded false tithe that Ellen threatened if we didn't return honestly we would be eternally lost.   Now the real big one, not being able to know that we are saved because of the false Investigative Judgment.  Yep, thanks a million.

[Amo]

Hi Amo, Thanks for the debate.  I thank the Lord that you couldn't dispute my beliefs.  I sincerely would not want to have to go back under the dictates of Ellen White and the SDA church.  When I left Adventism I discovered that I was free in Jesus.  No one looking in my grocery cart for food that Ellen deemed unfit, no more being judged at Bible study and Sabbath School for different thoughts on scripture.  No more paying the demanded false tithe that Ellen threatened if we didn't return honestly we would be eternally lost.   Now the real big one, not being able to know that we are saved because of the false Investigative Judgment.  Yep, thanks a million.

I did dispute your easily disputed beliefs. I just see no sense in covering the same ground over and over again. If you think simply posting last equals winning a debate or dispute, then so be it, you won in your own mind anyway. I'm glad you are very self confident about your personal salvation, and I sincerely hope you are correct. Nevertheless, God will have the final word on that one, concerning all of us. To be sure, many will believe they are saved who are not, as our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ clearly points out. While I have great faith in His abilities, I choose to exalt Him as the Savior of all who will place their faith in Him, rather than my own profession of absolute surety of salvation.

Lk 18:9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Which one of the above knew in heir own mind that they were justified or saved? Which one actually was? I know I am a sinner. I will not boast that I am saved. I will boast that Jesus saves. No one will ever be saved by declaring that they are. All who trust and lean upon our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, will be.

[beam]

Quote from: beam on Sat Mar 02, 2019 - 18:55:01
Hi Amo, Thanks for the debate.  I thank the Lord that you couldn't dispute my beliefs.  I sincerely would not want to have to go back under the dictates of Ellen White and the SDA church.  When I left Adventism I discovered that I was free in Jesus.  No one looking in my grocery cart for food that Ellen deemed unfit, no more being judged at Bible study and Sabbath School for different thoughts on scripture.  No more paying the demanded false tithe that Ellen threatened if we didn't return honestly we would be eternally lost.   Now the real big one, not being able to know that we are saved because of the false Investigative Judgment.  Yep, thanks a million.[/Quote]

I did dispute your easily disputed beliefs.

Yes, you did, but I had to wring them out of you.  Your favorite is that you already answered the questions.  We still had many unanswered questions when you decided to stop posting .

I just see no sense in covering the same ground over and over again. If you think simply posting last equals winning a debate or dispute, then so be it, you won in your own mind anyway.

Yes, Amo, it is my fault you stopped.  The great blame game.  You wouldn't answer, but it is all my fault.

I'm glad you are very self confident about your personal salvation, and I sincerely hope you are correct. Nevertheless,

I thought you were finally being nice for a second, then came the qualifier "nevertheless".  Might just as well not written anything in the first place.  Ellen sure has you where she wants you, you have no real hope.  You cannot claim all the promises because of her writings.  That is really too bad.

God will have the final word on that one, concerning all of us.

Jesus told me the following: 24 "I tell you the truth, those who listen to my message and believe in God who sent me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.

To be sure, many will believe they are saved who are not, as our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ clearly points out. While I have great faith in His abilities, I choose to exalt Him as the Savior of all who will place their faith in Him, rather than my own profession of absolute surety of salvation.

Yep, Ellens got ya.



Lk 18:9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Which one of the above knew in heir own mind that they were justified or saved? Which one actually was? I know I am a sinner. I will not boast that I am saved.

Tell me you have never had thoughts like the Pharisee.  That was what was wrong with the Law, the law that SDAs hold so dear.  You all judge each other as to how well you keep it.  I keep telling you it isn't about the incomplete 10 commandments yet you scoff at me.  You are really scoffing at our Savior.

I will boast that Jesus saves. No one will ever be saved by declaring that they are. All who trust and lean upon our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be.

Oh yes you do tell us that Jesus saves then you add the qualifiers "but", "but" and more "buts".

It is not what we do, it is all about what Jesus has done.

[Amo]

Yes, you did, but I had to wring them out of you.  Your favorite is that you already answered the questions.  We still had many unanswered questions when you decided to stop posting .
Yes, Amo, it is my fault you stopped.  The great blame game.  You wouldn't answer, but it is all my fault.

I thought you were finally being nice for a second, then came the qualifier "nevertheless".  Might just as well not written anything in the first place.  Ellen sure has you where she wants you, you have no real hope.  You cannot claim all the promises because of her writings.  That is really too bad.

Jesus told me the following: 24 "I tell you the truth, those who listen to my message and believe in God who sent me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.
Yep, Ellens got ya.



Lk 18:9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
Tell me you have never had thoughts like the Pharisee.  That was what was wrong with the Law, the law that SDAs hold so dear.  You all judge each other as to how well you keep it.  I keep telling you it isn't about the incomplete 10 commandments yet you scoff at me.  You are really scoffing at our Savior.
Oh yes you do tell us that Jesus saves then you add the qualifiers "but", "but" and more "buts".

It is not what we do, it is all about what Jesus has done.

There is no end to your twisting of scripture, EGW's writings, and my own words. As is almost always the case, you are the one who continually brings up EGW, which I respond to. You and others keep telling me that I am eaten up EGW, but I never use her writings to prove or argue any of my points, but do almost always and only respond to those such as yourself who are apparently at the very least equally eaten up with her as well. You bring her up non stop.

Now you enter upon some sick twisted perception that my decision to not go over and over the same ground with you, which I have already gone over and over again with others long before you, is some kind of blame game on my part. Get over yourself, you don't have that kind of control over my life. You came to these boards and made your accusations, I decided to address some of them, then when our conversation seem to become repetitive I decided not to continue the repetition. That is all. No deep blame game plot. More repetitive drama queen beam outbursts and accusations are not going to make me continue a conversation I have decided is fruitless. You are of course free to Babyl - on.

I will however address a new point you just brought forward -

It is not what we do, it is all about what Jesus has done.

The above is a complete faulty premise of a false gospel. Done is the operative word here. Nothing can be added to what Jesus has done. What we do in relation to what He has done has everything to do with salvation or not. If not, then everyone is saved regardless of any actions or beliefs on their part, and our conversations and all others are a waste of time. Eternal bliss in heaven is a given for everyone regardless.

Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

You and I and all others will make a decision about what the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ has done. Our words and actions in this life will determine what choice we have made. Lip service alone is cheap. Not one person on this planet will ever be saved because they have declared that they are. They will be saved by the blood of Jesus alone, and He will make the final decision as to who has and who has not been saved by the same. He Himself has testified and declared that many who profess to be His followers are not, and will not enter the kingdom of God.

Phil 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: 10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; 11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. 12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Salvation is not a one time event beam. It is a decision that must be maintained and striven for. There is an enemy who wishes to destroy the salvation of all. Our flesh is weak, yours included. I am saved by the blood of Jesus Christ, but the gospel has nothing to do with exalting the surety of my personal salvation and or demanding everyone else does so as well. Nor do the scriptures promote or teach anywhere that all who may struggle with doubts of their personal salvation, or mistrust their own personal confidence in declaring such, are lost. To the contrary, such is necessary to the fallen nature of sinners whose main problem is placing self above all, even God. You may trust your own declaration of salvation completely at present, and assure your self of the same for the future as well of course if you please. I will not. I do not trust myself now nor am I likely to do so in the future. I will lean upon the Lord, cling to His promises, and pray for the will and power to continue to do so in the future. Do you condemn Paul for his words above which seem to suggest he continued to strive for salvation?

1 Cor 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Do you condemn him for suggesting above that he as all others could lose salvation?

1 Tim 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses. 13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; 14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. 17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; 18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; 19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

Do you condemn him for suggesting that there is something the rich in this world must do that they may lay hold on eternal life, rather than telling them that they must be completely confident that they already have it?

Mt 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Do you condemn the Lord Jesus Christ for suggesting that those who endure to the end will  be saved, and not simply stating that all who profess Him are and can be sure that they are and will be saved?

Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end

Has your end or the end of this world come yet? Go to, proclaim your self assured salvation before the end. I will lean upon the Lord and pray for the endurance needed from Him to ensure that salvation, not boast that I already have it.

Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come. 26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. 28 And I will give him the morning star. 29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

You may profess whatever you wish in the present, but according to scripture, only those who endure to the end will receive salvation. God will decide who truly endured. Why do you demand that only those who proclaim absolute surety in their salvation can be saved, when Jesus specifically pointed out that many who professed to be his followers would not be saved. Why do you hold up the proclamation of sinners as the final word or authority pertaining to the same, when scripture clearly identifies God as the final word and authority concerning the same, and declares that many of the lost will falsely proclaim the same?

Mt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

[Amo]

Since beam brought up EGW again, alluding to one of her statements concerning surety of salvation, I will post that statement that she may speak for herself.

TRUE REVIVAL pg's 48&49

The evil that led to Peter's fall [in denying Christ at His trial] ... is proving the ruin of thousands today. There is nothing so offensive to God or so dangerous to the human soul as pride and self-sufficiency. Of all sins it is the most hopeless, the most incurable.
Peter's fall was not instantaneous, but gradual. Self-confidence led him to the belief that he was saved, and step after step was taken in the downward path, until he could deny his Master. Never can we safely put confidence in self or feel, this side of heaven, that we are secure against temptation. Those who accept the Saviour, however sincere their conversion, should never be taught to say or to feel that they are saved.*
This is misleading. Every one should be taught to cherish hope and faith; but even when we give ourselves to Christ and know that He accepts us, we are not beyond the reach of temptation. God's Word declares, "Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried" (Daniel 12:10). Only he who endures the trial will receive the crown of life (James 1:12).
Those who accept Christ, and in their first confidence say, I am saved, are in danger of trusting to themselves. They lose sight of their own weakness and their constant need of divine strength. They are unprepared for Satan's devices, and under temptation many, like Peter, fall into the very depths of sin. We are admonished, "Let him that thinketh he standeth, take heed lest he fall" (1 Corinthians 10:12). Our only safety is in constant distrust of self, and dependence on Christ.—Christ's Object Lessons, 154, 155.

Self confidence is the problem being addressed, and self distrust is the remedy. Our faith needs to be in Christ, not self feeling or assurance. Peter thought he was ready to die for or with Jesus, but he denied three times instead. Peter had much to learn about himself as we all do. His self confidence in his own faith in Jesus was proved faulty and misplaced. He repented, was forgiven, and appointed an apostle by Jesus Himself. We should not misplace our faith in confident boasting of our own salvation, but rather lean heavily upon Jesus and exalt the salvation He has provided for all who will pick up their crosses and follow Him to the end.

[current occupant2]

I'm not sure why the saturday sabbath needs to be proclaimed more fully.

I thought it was THE CROSS than need proclaiming to finish the work. - that is the Gospel of the KINGDOM. 

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

CO2:
I'm not sure why the saturday sabbath needs to be proclaimed more fully.
I thought it was THE CROSS than need proclaiming to finish the work. - that is the Gospel of the KINGDOM.

There's no "'saturday sabbath'" thing in Scripture; it's your rubbish!

But you were on the right track when you asked why the Sabbath OF THE LORD needs to be proclaimed more fully, in view of your thought, "'I thought it was THE CROSS than need proclaiming to finish the work. - that is the Gospel of the KINGDOM.'"
You see, it is not by the cross but by Christ's VICTORY on the cross MANIFEST AND FINISHED IN HIS RESURRECTION from death and grave "ON THE SABBATH" in which "the LORD REVIVED AND RESTED UP AGAIN", "His Name Being The Most Holy", by which the Sabbath not only "'needs be'" but shall be, 'proclaimed more fully' – and, is being 'proclaimed more fully'.

[beam]

There is no end to your twisting of scripture, EGW's writings, and my own words.

Twist scripture???   You write that I do, so show me where, I would appreciate knowing.   I am here to show SDAs where they have strayed from the truths of the Bible, not to condemn anyone.  You refuse to give me a chance.  I have gone to great lengths trying to explain Matt 5:17-18.  Not one iota would pass from the Law (Sinai Covenant) until all is fulfilled.  As you know fulfill means to bring to an end.  Either He fulfilled the laws of the Sinai covenant and we are experiencing Jeremiah's prophecy of a new covenant not like the Sinai covenant, but better than the Sinai covenant xor Jews are still under the Sinai covenant and Gentiles are a law unto ourselves.   Anything else doesn't make any sense as I have tried to tell you.

As to twisting the writings of Ellen are concerned I merely quote them for you to see what she is holding over Adventism.  You tell me I am twisting your words, well if disagreeing with what you believe is twisting I sure do a lot of it.

As is almost always the case, you are the one who continually brings up EGW, which I respond to. You and others keep telling me that I am eaten up EGW, but I never use her writings to prove or argue any of my points, but do almost always and only respond to those such as yourself who are apparently at the very least equally eaten up with her as well. You bring her up non stop.

Now you enter upon some sick twisted perception that my decision to not go over and over the same ground with you, which I have already gone over and over again with others long before you, is some kind of blame game on my part. Get over yourself, you don't have that kind of control over my life.

Wow! you said a mouthful there.   It is so obvious that you are blaming me for asking you questions that you have already answered.   I have no idea if you have answered those questions for others.   Maybe you should reconsider your position.

You came to these boards and made your accusations,

I came to this board to help people see the real Light.  If you think that is accusing then so be it.

I decided to address some of them, then when our conversation seem to become repetitive I decided not to continue the repetition. That is all. No deep blame game plot. More repetitive drama queen beam outbursts and accusations are not going to make me continue a conversation I have decided is fruitless. You are of course free to Babyl - on.

Oh, thank you for your permission to spread the real Gospel.   Your words are so inspiring.

I will however address a new point you just brought forward -

The above is a complete faulty premise of a false gospel. Done is the operative word here. Nothing can be added to what Jesus has done. What we do in relation to what He has done has everything to do with salvation or not. If not, then everyone is saved regardless of any actions or beliefs on their part, and our conversations and all others are a waste of time. Eternal bliss in heaven is a given for everyone regardless.

Once again you make it sound like what I wrote is completely wrong.  I wrote that it is not what we do, it is what Jesus has done.  You have shown your inability to reason rightly what I wrote.   It matters zero what we do, if it were not for what Jesus did what we do is nothing but filthy rags.  That is why Paul wrote so much about the works of the Law.  The good deeds that Christians do are not to gain our salvation They are to show Jesus our appreciation.  What we have done for the least of these we have done it to Jesus.

Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Amen

You and I and all others will make a decision about what the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ has done. Our words and actions in this life will determine what choice we have made. Lip service alone is cheap. Not one person on this planet will ever be saved because they have declared that they are. They will be saved by the blood of Jesus alone, and He will make the final decision as to who has and who has not been saved by the same. He Himself has testified and declared that many who profess to be His followers are not, and will not enter the kingdom of God.

Did all that need to be said?   Did Ellen need to tell the flock of SDAs that not one in twenty SDAs is ready for eternal life?  I wonder how many non SDAs she would have said were ready?     It is really sick to believe after all the promises in scripture that you would discredit anyone who knows they are saved and lets it be known

Phil 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: 10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; 11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. 12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Salvation is not a one time event beam.

It isn't?    I certainly remember giving my heart to Jesus, asking Him to wash my sinful soul and body.  I claimed the promise.  He is our Rest, our refuge our hope for eternity.  I accepted His promise to keep me from falling and present me faultless before the Throne.   Yes, Amo, it was a glorious one-time event.  I didn't realize how glorious it was then, now reflecting back over my life I know how beautiful it was.

Had you quoted Paul from the beginning of Phil 3 you wouldn't have been able to use the verses 8-14  as the hammer you think supports your view.

It is a decision that must be maintained and striven for. There is an enemy who wishes to destroy the salvation of all. Our flesh is weak, yours included. I am saved by the blood of Jesus Christ, but the gospel has nothing to do with exalting the surety of my personal salvation and or demanding everyone else does so as well. Nor do the scriptures promote or teach anywhere that all who may struggle with doubts of their personal salvation, or mistrust their own personal confidence in declaring such, are lost. To the contrary, such is necessary to the fallen nature of sinners whose main problem is placing self above all, even God. You may trust your own declaration of salvation completely at present, and assure your self of the same for the future as well of course if you please. I will not. I do not trust myself now nor am I likely to do so in the future. I will lean upon the Lord, cling to His promises, and pray for the will and power to continue to do so in the future. Do you condemn Paul for his words above which seem to suggest he continued to strive for salvation?

No one is asking you to trust in yourself.  Your statement is so very sick.  It is hard to know where to start because you have that driven into your head so deep.   Is Jesus able to keep you from falling and present you before the throne spotless?   If you cannot claim that promise then you do not know Jesus.   All the works like trying to keep the Sinai covenant's Sabbath is like filthy rags.  That is not what Christianity is about.  Yes, we are saved by the blood of Jesus.  Then you cannot accept what you wrote and have to add a clarification.  You know the big BUT. You believe statements like the following: It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord. God says: "Them that honor Me I will honor." {6T 356.4} Salvation is not about what we do, it is about What Jesus did.  Abraham was saved by faith.  He didn't have the Sinai covenant's laws  Deut 5: 2 "The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Mount Sinai.[a] 3 The Lord did not make this covenant with our ancestors,

1 Cor 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Do you condemn him for suggesting above that he as all others could lose salvation?

I do not agree with once saved always saved.  The race Paul ran didn't secure his salvation.  His salvation was secured when he gave his heart to Jesus and allowed the Holy Spirit to work in him.  With the Holy Spirit as our guide, we will put away old habits that are not becoming of Christians.  We will strive to be a beacon on a hill for all to see what happens when we accept Jesus and His promises.

1 Tim 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses. 13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; 14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. 17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; 18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; 19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

Do you condemn him for suggesting that there is something the rich in this world must do that they may lay hold on eternal life, rather than telling them that they must be completely confident that they already have it?

We are not the judge Amo.  If someone tells me they are saved who am I to question their validity?   As I pointed out above, you are taught that you must keep the Sabbath in order to be saved.  You must tithe in order to be saved.   All this garbage came from a woman with no education and a huge desire to be someone great.  This was a woman with a severe head injury causing her to do things out of the ordinary.  The church she helped found has you believing that you must be Sabbath-observant.  Yet we know that Sabbath was part of the covenant that is no longer in existence.  We are under the covenant of grace.  The priesthood has changed and so has the laws.  Ellen White was a fraud and sadly to say the church she helped found promotes her fraud.

Mt 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Have you ever read all the hate filled dogma Ellen wrote about all the other churches?  According to her, all churches that do not subscribe to what she taught are Babylon.  We are of the devil.  We will chase you and catch you and persecute you.  Yes, she wrote all that and much more.  And the sad part of it all is that you buy into it with all your heart.   Ellen's desire was to make you all exclusive.  Thank God she has not succeeded in that effort.

Do you condemn the Lord Jesus Christ for suggesting that those who endure to the end will  be saved, and not simply stating that all who profess Him are and can be sure that they are and will be saved?

I do not believe in once saved always saved.   Accepting Jesus as our Savior does not make us puppets.  We are still free to choose.   Branches do shrivel up, die and fall from the Tree.

Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end

Exhort each other with what?  your church chooses to do it with old covenant laws that have been replaced with a new and better covenant, one that is not of works.   I beg you to read Gal 3.  Those folks were getting along just fine until the Judaizers came along preaching works of the Law to them.   

Has your end or the end of this world come yet?

I cannot believe you do not believe Jesus words are a metaphor especially when He adds the word until to the statement.

Go to, proclaim your self assured salvation before the end.

What a sick statement.  The reason I am assured of salvation is because of Jesus promises.  Self has no part in my salvation.   It is a gift.  Your SDA cliches are showing

I will lean upon the Lord and pray for the endurance needed from Him to ensure that salvation, not boast that I already have it.

What a terrible way to have to live not knowing or believing the promises Jesus gave us. 

Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come. 26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. 28 And I will give him the morning star. 29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Amen!  His works, not mine.

You may profess whatever you wish in the present, but according to scripture, only those who endure to the end will receive salvation.

That is precisely why I do not believe once saved always saved.  You believe you have to do as Ellen assigned to be able to endure to the end.  I will stick with Jesus command to love our fellow man as Jesus loves us.  I know that I belong to the truth just as John wrote in 2JN3:19-24  19 Our actions will show that we belong to the truth, so we will be confident when we stand before God. 20 Even if we feel guilty, God is greater than our feelings, and he knows everything.

21 Dear friends, if we don't feel guilty, we can come to God with bold confidence. 22 And we will receive from him whatever we ask because we obey him and do the things that please him.

23 And this is his commandment: We must believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as he commanded us. 24 Those who obey God's commandments remain in fellowship with him, and he with them. And we know he lives in us because the Spirit he gave us lives in us.

God will decide who truly endured. Why do you demand that only those who proclaim absolute surety in their salvation can be saved, when Jesus specifically pointed out that many who professed to be his followers would not be saved. Why do you hold up the proclamation of sinners as the final word or authority pertaining to the same, when scripture clearly identifies God as the final word and authority concerning the same, and declares that many of the lost will falsely proclaim the same?

Why do you twist what I write and I have to explain over again what I really have written?  I demand nothing.  God is the judge.    I am trying to help SDAs know that they can know that they are saved.  Living a life not knowing if you made the grade must be awful.  It was for me when I was SDA.   SDAs put their hope in the writings of Ellen White,  I put my trust in Jesus Christ.

[beam]

Amo wrote:

Self confidence is the problem being addressed, and self distrust is the remedy. Our faith needs to be in Christ, not self feeling or assurance. Peter thought he was ready to die for or with Jesus, but he denied three times instead. Peter had much to learn about himself as we all do. His self confidence in his own faith in Jesus was proved faulty and misplaced. He repented, was forgiven, and appointed an apostle by Jesus Himself. We should not misplace our faith in confident boasting of our own salvation, but rather lean heavily upon Jesus and exalt the salvation He has provided for all who will pick up their crosses and follow Him to the end.

Sorry Amo, You did it again.  Your statement is accusing multi-millions of Christians of being reliant on ourselves because we claim the promise Jesus Himself gave to us so plainly.  You want us to go through a miserable existence because of your fanatical belief in a head damaged woman over Jesus own words?  John 3:16, John 3:18, John 3:36,

John 5:24 "I tell you the truth, those who listen to my message and believe in God who sent me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life. 

John 6:29 Jesus told them, "This is the only work God wants from you: Believe in the one he has sent."

Multi-Millions of born again Christians and myself believe those promises, you believe in the words of Ellen White and the SDA church.

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

Beam: # 224
Sorry Amo, You did it again.  Your statement is accusing multi-millions of Christians of being reliant on ourselves because we claim the promise Jesus Himself gave to us so plainly.  You want us to go through a miserable existence because of your fanatical belief in a head damaged woman over Jesus own words?  John 3:16, John 3:18, John 3:36,

John 5:24 "I tell you the truth, those who listen to my message and believe in God who sent me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life. 

John 6:29 Jesus told them, "This is the only work God wants from you: Believe in the one he has sent."

Multi-Millions of born again Christians and myself believe those promises, you believe in the words of Ellen White and the SDA church.

I am not a SDA and I reject Mrs E.G. White's writings, but you and your rubbish such as here, I won't use for toilet paper. You, your writings, your haughtiness and holiness MAKE ME SICK.

[Hobie]

I'm not sure why the saturday sabbath needs to be proclaimed more fully.

I thought it was THE CROSS than need proclaiming to finish the work. - that is the Gospel of the KINGDOM. 

It is part of what leads us back to the Creator, so it is part of the gospel..

[Texas Conservative]

It is part of what leads us back to the Creator, so it is part of the gospel..

No.  It is not.  Paul would have said to this "Foolish Galatian!"

[Amo]

No.  It is not.  Paul would have said to this "Foolish Galatian!"

Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Exo 20:Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

What does any of the above scripture have to do with foolish Galatians?
What does faith in God's word concerning the testimony of the fourth commandment have to do with believing one is saved by the law? Nothing.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report. 3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Faith in the testimony of the fourth commandment of God, has nothing to do with the foolishness of the Galatians. Believing the testimony of the fourth commandment is the most basic component of faith listed in chapter 11 of the book of Hebrews which is all about faith.

Paul addresses this truth as well, and the very negative effects of denying the testimony of the fourth commandment.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

As is obvious, authentic faith is directly tied to belief in the basic testimony of the fourth commandment of God. That He created, sustains, and has saved this world. The sabbath of God being directly connected to these basic truths by the holy scriptures themselves. How say you, any that keep the fourth commandment by faith in the word of God and admonish others to do so as well, are foolish Galatians? Nonsense. I wonder, do you feel the same about those who think Sunday must be observed, and approve of mandating such by law.

[Texas Conservative]

Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Exo 20:Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

What does any of the above scripture have to do with foolish Galatians?
What does faith in God's word concerning the testimony of the fourth commandment have to do with believing one is saved by the law? Nothing.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report. 3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Faith in the testimony of the fourth commandment of God, has nothing to do with the foolishness of the Galatians. Believing the testimony of the fourth commandment is the most basic component of faith listed in chapter 11 of the book of Hebrews which is all about faith.

Paul addresses this truth as well, and the very negative effects of denying the testimony of the fourth commandment.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

As is obvious, authentic faith is directly tied to belief in the basic testimony of the fourth commandment of God. That He created, sustains, and has saved this world. The sabbath of God being directly connected to these basic truths by the holy scriptures themselves. How say you, any that keep the fourth commandment by faith in the word of God and admonish others to do so as well, are foolish Galatians? Nonsense. I wonder, do you feel the same about those who think Sunday must be observed, and approve of mandating such by law.

If you say that keeping the sabbath is part of the gospel, you are a foolish Galatian. 

Galatians 5

1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

[Amo]

If you say that keeping the sabbath is part of the gospel, you are a foolish Galatian. 

Galatians 5

1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

Jas 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called? 8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

So be it unto you, as your gospel declares. That submitting to the Ten Commandments of God, spoken by His own mouth to humanity, and written with His own finger, represent a yoke of slavery.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. 3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.........

Rev 12:17  And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12  Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

[Texas Conservative]

Jas 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called? 8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

So be it unto you, as your gospel declares. That submitting to the Ten Commandments of God, spoken by His own mouth to humanity, and written with His own finger, represent a yoke of slavery.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. 3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.........

Rev 12:17  And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12  Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

A recipe of scriptures that prove your premise.  It's called Eisegesis. 

Attempting to put Sabbath keeping into the gospel of Jesus Christ is another gospel.

[Hobie]

Yes, that is true.  You made Him out a liar when you wrote that the ceremonial part of the Law ended with the destruction of Jerusalem.  If you insist on believing not one jot nor one tittle can pass from the Sinai covenant and deny the word "until" and then tell us the ceremonial part of the law ended you make Jesus out a liar.

Flop,  We all know Jesus didn't contradict Himself.  You did the contradicting.  First, you denied the word "until" and then denied not one jot or tittle passing from the Sinai covenant.  Furthermore, in your statement below you deny that "Heaven and Earth passing away is a metaphor.  All this to try to defend your churches false belief.  I am amazed.
Another false belief your church is promoting.  Where there is no law there is no sin.  There was no command for man to observe any day until after the Red Sea.   If there were a command to observe the Sabbath why didn't God stop the Exodus during the escape and have the Israelites observe it?
Who has given you or your church the right to put a 10 in front of commandments and spread this falsehood to all you and your church has spread it?   That is adding to scripture.
You can deny all you want, tell me it is in my mind and that I am rejecting truth and defending lies all you want.  The fact is that you have your head in the sand.  Until you recognize the word "fulfill" you will be denying the real truth.  The 10 commandments have been done away as the guide of the Israelites and the Holy Spirit, the gift given to all mankind, is now our guide into righteousness.  Simple isn't it?

Quoting Isiah really doesn't impress me.  In chapter 65 he writes that man will live to be over 100 before he dies and some other statements that are not congruent to what we believe.  He writes that we won't remember, but then writes that we will go out on the Sabbath and walk among the worm-ridden bodies of those that didn't make it to Heaven.
2 Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. 6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.[/color]

Why do you separate Jesus' statement regarding the passing away of heaven and earth from the above scriptural testimony? Is it not in order to defend what you ave chosen? You must separate them, and insist that they are separate, to defend your position. It is not logical to do so, it is simply necessary to your position to do so. Are all the above statements of scripture simply metaphor?
Quote all you want, but you have not proved that Heaven and Earth has to pass before the old covenant ends because you refuse to accept  18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Either all the law is still intact or all the law has been fulfilled.  Believe that truth and it will unshackle you from the clutches of Adventism

I think you will soon see Christ Himself and the error you have followed, but will it be too late will be the question..