Is Holy Spirit revealing day and hour?

[LaSpino3]

In both Matthew 24 and Mark 13:32, days before the Jesus was to go to the cross, the disciples asked the Lord two questions. The second question concerned the Lord's return at the end of the age. The second question will be the focus of this article. It was days before the cross when the disciples and Jesus had departed from the temple and went up to the Mt. of Olives. As they looked down on the area where the Temple and buildings in the complex stood,

Matthew 24:3, the disciples asked, "Tell us ---- what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world (age)?"

We have been made aware that there has been a certain day and hour fixed by the Father for the day of the Lord's return; it's called, "the day of the Lord," but at this point in time, it remained hidden in the Father alone. The disciples question has nothing to do with the church or of the catching away (rapture) of the body of Christ, see 1 Thessalonians 4:16. But it does concern Israel, Jerusalem, the Jews.

When the Lord does return, he will return to the Mt. of Olives, (Jeremiah 14:4) and in the same manner He left, (see Acts 1:9), to carry out vengeance upon his enemies. When the judgments are over, He will establish His kingdom in Jerusalem for the next 1000 Years.  Now concerning Jesus answer, "no man knows," I feel a wall has been built around his response to the disciple's question, and it remains a barrier too many. This wall has been built around the following statement, 

Mark 13:32, Jesus responded to the question, "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."

This word "knoweth" is used in the present tense, meaning the Lord did not have the information at that time. Also, the verse does not say the Father will never reveal this information through His Holy Spirit to us. Now that's something we must keep in mind.

Let's begin with the following, why did Jesus come the first time to Israel and the Jews? Jesus was born in October between the 15th and 30th in the year, 4 B.C. as prophesied. He was baptized by John and the Holy Spirit exactly 30 years later between the 15th and 30th of October 26 A.D., see Luke 3:23.

Three- and one-half years after his baptism, Jesus went to the cross; the time April 5th at 3 o'clock in the afternoon, the year, 30 A.D.

Certain facts may be established that can help us find the reason for the Lord's comment. Again, the question, "what shall be ---the end of the world (age)?" Let's begin with, "why did Jesus come in the first place"?

1. Jesus purpose for coming can be found in several verses, in Matthew 15:24, He said, "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep (the people) of the house of Israel."

2. Matthew 4:16, "The people (the Jews) which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up." He came to bring them good news, their Messiah had come, and the kingdom they prayed for was at hand.   

But, by their own choice, he was rejected!
John 19:14, "The chief priests (of the Jews) answered (Pilate, saying,) we have no king but Caesar."

Luke 23:21, the Jews cried out to Pilate, "Crucify him, crucify him."

Matthew 27:25, "Then answered all the people, and said, His (Jesus) blood be on us, and on our children."

Jesus looked down on the crowd and spoke repeating what David wrote in,

Psalms 22:1, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" This is supported with Matthew 26:56, "Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled."

Both forsaken and forsook mean to abandon. It was the Jewish people, the priests, Pharisees, Sadducees, and disciple who had abandoned the Lord, not the Father. Jesus next words to His Father were,

Luke 23:46, "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit:" Doesn't sound as if the Father had abandoned his beloved Son.   

After all the signs and wonders Jesus had done to prove who He was and who had sent him, the Jews set up a mock trial, rigged the jury and condemned this innocent man to death. Luke wrote in,
Acts 2:36, "Therefore let all the house of Israel (12 tribes) know assuredly, that God (the Father) hath made the same Jesus, whom you have crucified, both Lord and Christ."

So, the disciples question concerning his return and the final day of His vengeance and redemption were premature at best. Jesus warned the Jews about a series of events that would have to take place before the "end of the age" came to pass.

First, the Holy Spirit would have to be sent; the church age had not begun; the Temple was still in use; and the curses God placed on the Jews had yet to be fulfilled. Also, it is written, when the harvest of the church is near, there shall be a great falling away. But there couldn't be a falling away back then because the church was yet to be established and the gospel spread to all nations. All this had to be fulfilled before the question the disciples asked could be answered.

Jesus was obviously speaking from the position of his human knowledge, not from the standpoint of His divine omniscience when He said,
Matthew 24:36, "Of that day and hour (the end of the age) knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only," with,

Mark writes, in 13:32, "But of THAT day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."

Now does the answer to the same question concern the church? No! Why? because the church has no need to know the time of the Lord's return concerning the "end of the age." Why? because the body of believers will be taken from off the earth before the tribulation begins. Therefore, Paul had no reason whatsoever to write concerning this matter of the Lord's return at the end of the age.

This matter concerned the Jews only, therefore, the answer needed to be approached from a Jewish perspective. Question; has the answer to this question been written within the pages of scripture, but only now to be revealed by the Father through His Holy Spirit?

It would have made no sense to reveal the hidden mysteries of this question of the "last days" even 100 years ago. Why?

One significant reason being, the Jews had no homeland until May 14th 1948. Without a homeland, and a place called Israel, the words of the Lord in both the Old and New Testament would have been of little value to anyone. But now, in the year 2019, and on the brink of the Jews having been in the land 70 years, that being May 13 of 2019, I believe the Father is revealing one of the last mysteries hidden within the pages of scripture.

On May 13th of 2019, one full generation, 70 Years in the land. This generation has witnessed many false prophets and false Christs, having themselves suffered many afflictions and wars; also having witnessed nations rising against nations and kingdoms against kingdoms. They have suffered famines, pestilences, and been witness to many other tragedies around the world.

Some in this generation of Jews who now reside in the land have suffered at the hands of Nazi Germany, Russia and Islam. The enemies of the Jews are many, all being tormentors of the Jews, that is, all but the Christian community.

Jesus said, Matthew 24:34, "This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." So here we stand, 70 Years having passed, one full generation of Jews having been witness to many of the events of Matthew 24.

Acts 1:6-7, again, the disciples asked the same question, "Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? But now they were asking a risen and glorified Christ, one who was about to ascend to the throne of His Father. Jesus said unto them, "it is not for you (his disciples) to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hast put in his own power."

Power here means, having the power of doing or not doing, as in license, liberty or free choice. The word is used in Acts 5:4, when Peter was speaking to Ananias and Sapphira when he said to them, "was it not thine own (speaking of the land)? And after it was sold; was it not in thine own power (control)? 

Romans 9:21, "Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?"

1 Corinthians 7:37, "Hath power over his own will," as in, if it stands in his own free will.

I have always felt the scriptures hold the secrets of Christ's return to establish the kingdom. Many clues have been written within the pages of scripture, and only now are being revealed.

Laspino3

[Choir Loft]

.....
Matthew 24:3, the disciples asked, "Tell us ---- what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world (age)?"

We have been made aware that there has been a certain day and hour fixed by the Father for the day of the Lord's return; it's called, "the day of the Lord," but at this point in time, it remained hidden in the Father alone. The disciples question has nothing to do with the church or of the catching away (rapture) of the body of Christ, see 1 Thessalonians 4:16. But it does concern Israel, Jerusalem, the Jews.
......
When the Lord does return, he will return to the Mt. of Olives, (Jeremiah 14:4) and in the same manner He left, (see Acts 1:9), to carry out vengeance upon his enemies. When the judgments are over, He will establish His kingdom in Jerusalem for the next 1000 Years.  Now concerning Jesus answer, "no man knows," I feel a wall has been built around his response to the disciple's question, and it remains a barrier too many. This wall has been built around the following statement, 

Mark 13:32, Jesus responded to the question, "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."

This word "knoweth" is used in the present tense, meaning the Lord did not have the information at that time. Also, the verse does not say the Father will never reveal this information through His Holy Spirit to us. Now that's something we must keep in mind.
.......
Let's begin with the following, why did Jesus come the first time to Israel and the Jews? Jesus was born in October between the 15th and 30th in the year, 4 B.C. as prophesied. He was baptized by John and the Holy Spirit exactly 30 years later between the 15th and 30th of October 26 A.D., see Luke 3:23.

I have always felt the scriptures hold the secrets of Christ's return to establish the kingdom. Many clues have been written within the pages of scripture, and only now are being revealed.

Laspino3

The clues you write about are misinterpretations based upon subjective opinion and a lack of historic perspective.

There is one glaring reason why Jesus said only the Father knew the day and hour of the Second Coming.  That reason is embedded in the calculations of the Jubilee Year.

THE OFFICE OF THE SON OF MAN

The Son of Man came to fulfill the Law, something most Christians know nothing at all about since they've abandoned it for licentious living.  Errors in opinion and interpretation are due to this general state of ignorance of the Law.  The office Jesus held during His first tenure on the earth was as an anointed rabbi (Hebrew for teacher), prophet and sacrifice.  The hebrew word mashiach or messiah means "anointed one".  Jesus' ministry was limited to those issues and consequently He wasn't at liberty to divulge other matters.  Currently He holds the office of priest and intercessor.  But I digress....

CALCULATIONS AND LOST NUMBERS

The Year of Jubilee was an expanded Law of shabbat passed down by God through Moses to the Hebrew people.  According to the Law of shabbat, man is to halt every form of work every seventh day.  The last day of the week is to be devoted to rest, prayer, meditation and worship.  The seventh day is called shabbat, which is Hebrew for sabbath.  Jews still observe shabbat according to the Law.  Christians observe worship on the first day of the week - just to be different.  Unfortunately departure from the Law is cause for much confusion - as evidenced by the state of the post-modern church today.

The sabbath or shabbat year is to occur every seventh year, according to the Law.  During that year the land is to go fallow.  It is not to be worked for agricultural purposes.  There are a number of other matters that are to be observed also.   A group of seven years is commonly referred to as 'a week of years' because they are composed of seven years rather than seven days as in an observed week of days.  The final year in a group of seven years is also called the sabbatical year or shemitah year.

The Year of Jubilee is to occur every seven shemitah years, according to the Law.  That's 50 years plus or minus one depending upon interpretation of the Law, which nobody observes.  During the Year of Jubilee all land ownership was to revert to its original owner, despite legal and financial arrangements to the contrary.  In other words, land was to be leased rather than bought and sold.  Indentured servants were to be given the opportunity to sever their servitude if they chose to do so.  All debts were canceled.  The BIG problem with the Jubilee Year was that Jews never observed it !!!

Moses died before the first Year of Jubilee came due and Joshua, his successor, never issued an order to observe it.  Centuries went by and Jewish custom never included the Jubilee Year.   During that period of time Israel became divided with the northern kingdom being destroyed by the Assyrians.   The southern kingdom of Judah was subsequently taken captive to Babylon for seventy years - the exact number of years corresponding to the number of Jubilee years they'd failed to observe.   When they returned from Babylon to repopulate Judah, all record of the date and time of the origins of the yearly count had been lost.   

In Jesus' day, no one knew when the Year of Jubilee was to be observed.  Counts and numerological predictions based upon it couldn't be figured accurately simply because nobody knew when to start the count of years.   This is why Jesus said only the Father knows.   Jesus' statement wasn't prophetic.  It was mathematical.  He knew what He was talking about and so did every Jew who heard Him speak.  Christians don't know this because they aren't familiar with the Law.  What was true then is true today.  Predictions of the Second Coming are presumptive and erroneous simply because no human being knows when to start the count of years.  God knows and He's not talking.

But Jesus said to watch the seasons......

The Jewish calendar year always begins in the fall.
The Balfour Declaration, which announced British recognition of Jews to establish a homeland was published in November of 1917.
United Nations resolution #181 to partition Palestine and create the State of Israel was passed in November of 1947.
United Nations resolution #194 was passed in December 1948 to establish an armistice between the State of Israel and neighboring Arab states.
In October 1956 the Suez War commenced.
In November of 1966, Israel began a series of attacks that led to a greater war in 1967.
The Yom Kipper war was fought in October of 1973.

Does anybody see a pattern here?

THE RETURN OF JESUS

Consult the scripture and you will see that Jesus ascended into heaven near the town of Bethany.  When He disappeared from sight, the onlookers were informed by angels that Jesus would return the same way He left.  One might assume He'd return in the same place as well.   Prophetic statements in the later books of the NT suggest this very thing to be true.  Where is Bethany?   The home town of Lazarus was Bethany.  Jesus stopped there many times.  Consult a map of the environs of Jerusalem.   

Beyond the east gate of Jerusalem, where Jesus made His entrance commemorated on Palm Sunday, lies the Kidron Valley.  The Kidron Valley is actually a dry river bed or wadi, which separates the east gate of Jerusalem from the Mount of Olives.   On the east side of the Mount of Olives lies the town of Bethany.   According to the Law, the only way to approach God's anointed holy place in the earthly temple is from the east.  The 3 wise men came to give presents to the new born Jesus.  They came from the east.  This is why Jesus must return to earth in or around the town of Bethany - presumably the Mount of Olives, which is visible from Bethany.

The East Gate is also called the Golden Gate in Christian literature.  Suleiman the Magnificent rebuilt most of the east wall and sealed it shut.  It remains closed to this day.  The Muslim idea was to keep the Jewish messiah from entering the city.   The area has often been plagued by earthquakes and it's not beyond the imagination to suggest a big one could knock down all or part of the east gate.  It has happened before.

Hope all of this helps.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

[lea]

They didn't know the hour or day Jesus' would be returning,. That's why Jesus told the disciples to watch and pray. And make sure to flee the city when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies. Then they'd know its time was near. The Old heavens and earth (the old covenant dictated by the law) would end and the Bride (the Church) would "come down" and be the new covenant in Christ.
No more tears or crying or spiritual death for the O.T. faithful. (God had punished Israel many times for their disobedience)   

But now God's grace was with both Jew and Gentile in Christ. - called by another name. "Christians?"

[Choir Loft]

They didn't know the hour or day Jesus' would be returning,. That's why Jesus told the disciples to watch and pray. And make sure to flee the city when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies. Then they'd know its time was near. The Old heavens and earth (the old covenant dictated by the law) would end and the Bride (the Church) would "come down" and be the new covenant in Christ.
No more tears or crying or spiritual death for the O.T. faithful. (God had punished Israel many times for their disobedience)   

But now God's grace was with both Jew and Gentile in Christ. - called by another name. "Christians?"

Jewish believers in Yeshua (the actual Hebrew name of the Son of God) were called Messianics until the movement became popularized by gentiles due to the ministry of St. Paul.  Over the next few centuries, Messianics were outnumbered and suppressed by the gentile church for a number of unsavory reasons.  They were officially displaced by the church of Rome when Emperor Constantine legitimized the new religion and managed oversight of its initial doctrine and creed.   In the early 1970's the modern Messianic movement was revived and has enjoyed steady growth and popularity since then.

Read the Bible and you will notice that in every instance where a description of synagogue worship services are described - there were gentile believers present in most congregations as well as Jews. 

Scholars now believe that Hebrew was the primary language of Jesus' day, not Aramaic as was assumed for years.  Additionally, substantial evidence especially within scripture itself suggests that all of the NT with the exception of the two books of Luke were written in Hebrew, not Greek.    Idiomatic evidence is primary in this assumption.  An idiom is a figure of speech and many times are passed along in translations.   Consider the gospel of Matthew.  Most sentences begin with the Hebrew idiom "and".  It drives readers nuts to be reading and and and and all the way through.   But take a look at earlier passages in known Hebrew text such as Genesis.   The same Hebrew idiom is present there too - and and and begins nearly every sentence.   

Read Romans chapters 3, 4 & 5 for an explanation of Law and Grace as it applies to Jew and gentile.  It's not quite what you think.

There is literally no difference between Law and Grace.   

The Law has not died been destroyed or determined to be of no effect.   Only part of it has passed away - those parts which have to do with temple worship & sacrifice.  There are two reasons for this.  One is that there isn't a temple any more and the other is that Christ has provided fulfillment of the Law in His death upon the cross.

"I did not come to destroy the Law, but to fulfill it." - Jesus as quoted by Matthew 5:17

The Law enables grace, so as to fulfill the Law and to enable believers to live it.

There is a fine line between observance of the letter of the Law and living it fully in your heart and life.  The Law is a love - hate relationship.  One can live according to the Law and still hate God, while Grace enables one of the Second Birth to do both - to live and love God according to His Law.

It has been said the Law cannot save.   Why?  Because the Law says so.  The purpose of the Law is to convince us of our sin and cause us to come humbly to God with our sacrifice in hand to ask forgiveness.   The perfect sacrifice is Christ, but we are still required to present ourselves personally before God and to ask in humility.  The Law says God MUST forgive if the blood of Christ is our sacrifice.   No other sacrifice for sin is recognized, according to the Law.

Consider a leaky pipe in your home.  You may refer to a Do-It-Yourself book on plumbing to identify the problem, discover what tools and equipment are needed to fix the leak, and how to fix the leak yourself.  It may even tell you how to keep the leak from happening again, BUT you can wave the plumber's book at the leak all day and it won't stop a drop.  You have to do it yourself.   The Law is the same.  It tells us we must do it ourselves with the sacrifice God has provided.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LICENSE TO SIN.

The attitude that grace excuses all sin is a lie of the tempter.   It has been lying since the Garden of Eden and it lies to us today.  Those who do not abide by the Law will die by the Law.  Therefore many among us have suffered grievous reverses in life, are sick and have died because they rejected the Law as allowed by grace. Those who follow the Law and seek God's generous forgiveness will find it.   That's a promise of the Law, by the way.   Grace enters in to fulfill the requirement of the Law and to guide us in living according to the Law so as to please God.

Is the Law of no effect?   Christians today live licentious lives under the false assumption the Law allows them to get away with lawless things.   May it never be.  Study the Bible and see that the judgment of God begins in the church.  (1 Peter 4:17)   But praise unto God for giving us His Law (Torah), for it teaches us how to obtain eternal life - a thing we are told we must do.   It's not automatic, according to the Law.

Am I proposing legalism?  Youbetcha.  If we are NOT under the law, then its ok for me to kill my neighbor, rape his wife, steal his possessions, burn his house to the ground and claim the whole affair was his fault.   That way of living sounds more like a middle eastern philosophy than the Christ like life to me.   or am I wrong?

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

[LaSpino3]

Choir loft wrote, "The clues you write about are misinterpretations based upon subjective opinion and a lack of historic perspective."

Phil replies, I would appreciate it if you would discuss my post and not what you think. I have spent many hours researching every word in both Matthew 24 and Mark 13 concerning the subject "what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world (age)?"   Now because you think my work is "subjective opinion and lacks historic perspective" doesn't make you right and me wrong. Now why don't you tell me clearly what you think is subjective opinion and lack of historic perspective concerning my post and maybe you can both learn something about the subject.

One more thing, please don't talk down to me, and treat me like I'm some first year Bible student!

Phil

[lea]

The clues you write about are misinterpretations based upon subjective opinion and a lack of historic perspective.

There is one glaring reason why Jesus said only the Father knew the day and hour of the Second Coming.  That reason is embedded in the calculations of the Jubilee Year.

THE OFFICE OF THE SON OF MAN

The Son of Man came to fulfill the Law, something most Christians know nothing at all about since they've abandoned it for licentious living.  Errors in opinion and interpretation are due to this general state of ignorance of the Law.  The office Jesus held during His first tenure on the earth was as an anointed rabbi (Hebrew for teacher), prophet and sacrifice.  The hebrew word mashiach or messiah means "anointed one".  Jesus' ministry was limited to those issues and consequently He wasn't at liberty to divulge other matters.  Currently He holds the office of priest and intercessor.  But I digress....

CALCULATIONS AND LOST NUMBERS

The Year of Jubilee was an expanded Law of shabbat passed down by God through Moses to the Hebrew people.  According to the Law of shabbat, man is to halt every form of work every seventh day.  The last day of the week is to be devoted to rest, prayer, meditation and worship.  The seventh day is called shabbat, which is Hebrew for sabbath.  Jews still observe shabbat according to the Law.  Christians observe worship on the first day of the week - just to be different.  Unfortunately departure from the Law is cause for much confusion - as evidenced by the state of the post-modern church today.

The sabbath or shabbat year is to occur every seventh year, according to the Law.  During that year the land is to go fallow.  It is not to be worked for agricultural purposes.  There are a number of other matters that are to be observed also.   A group of seven years is commonly referred to as 'a week of years' because they are composed of seven years rather than seven days as in an observed week of days.  The final year in a group of seven years is also called the sabbatical year or shemitah year.

The Year of Jubilee is to occur every seven shemitah years, according to the Law.  That's 50 years plus or minus one depending upon interpretation of the Law, which nobody observes.  During the Year of Jubilee all land ownership was to revert to its original owner, despite legal and financial arrangements to the contrary.  In other words, land was to be leased rather than bought and sold.  Indentured servants were to be given the opportunity to sever their servitude if they chose to do so.  All debts were canceled.  The BIG problem with the Jubilee Year was that Jews never observed it !!!

Moses died before the first Year of Jubilee came due and Joshua, his successor, never issued an order to observe it.  Centuries went by and Jewish custom never included the Jubilee Year.   During that period of time Israel became divided with the northern kingdom being destroyed by the Assyrians.   The southern kingdom of Judah was subsequently taken captive to Babylon for seventy years - the exact number of years corresponding to the number of Jubilee years they'd failed to observe.   When they returned from Babylon to repopulate Judah, all record of the date and time of the origins of the yearly count had been lost.   

In Jesus' day, no one knew when the Year of Jubilee was to be observed.  Counts and numerological predictions based upon it couldn't be figured accurately simply because nobody knew when to start the count of years.   This is why Jesus said only the Father knows.   Jesus' statement wasn't prophetic.  It was mathematical.  He knew what He was talking about and so did every Jew who heard Him speak.  Christians don't know this because they aren't familiar with the Law.  What was true then is true today.  Predictions of the Second Coming are presumptive and erroneous simply because no human being knows when to start the count of years.  God knows and He's not talking.

But Jesus said to watch the seasons......

The Jewish calendar year always begins in the fall.
The Balfour Declaration, which announced British recognition of Jews to establish a homeland was published in November of 1917.
United Nations resolution #181 to partition Palestine and create the State of Israel was passed in November of 1947.
United Nations resolution #194 was passed in December 1948 to establish an armistice between the State of Israel and neighboring Arab states.
In October 1956 the Suez War commenced.
In November of 1966, Israel began a series of attacks that led to a greater war in 1967.
The Yom Kipper war was fought in October of 1973.

Does anybody see a pattern here?

THE RETURN OF JESUS

Consult the scripture and you will see that Jesus ascended into heaven near the town of Bethany.  When He disappeared from sight, the onlookers were informed by angels that Jesus would return the same way He left.  One might assume He'd return in the same place as well.   Prophetic statements in the later books of the NT suggest this very thing to be true.  Where is Bethany?   The home town of Lazarus was Bethany.  Jesus stopped there many times.  Consult a map of the environs of Jerusalem.   

Beyond the east gate of Jerusalem, where Jesus made His entrance commemorated on Palm Sunday, lies the Kidron Valley.  The Kidron Valley is actually a dry river bed or wadi, which separates the east gate of Jerusalem from the Mount of Olives.   On the east side of the Mount of Olives lies the town of Bethany.   According to the Law, the only way to approach God's anointed holy place in the earthly temple is from the east.  The 3 wise men came to give presents to the new born Jesus.  They came from the east.  This is why Jesus must return to earth in or around the town of Bethany - presumably the Mount of Olives, which is visible from Bethany.

The East Gate is also called the Golden Gate in Christian literature.  Suleiman the Magnificent rebuilt most of the east wall and sealed it shut.  It remains closed to this day.  The Muslim idea was to keep the Jewish messiah from entering the city.   The area has often been plagued by earthquakes and it's not beyond the imagination to suggest a big one could knock down all or part of the east gate.  It has happened before.

Hope all of this helps.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Jesus ascended into the clouds. The only witnesses were the apostles. He would return the same way- in the clouds over Jerusalem during the 66-70 war period with the Romans. That was the Revelation of Jesus Christ's power and authority as He stated to the chief priests.
Mark 14:61,  61 But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer. Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?"
62 "I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

[Ginger Rella]

If I ever find the time to comment on this I shall....
but just checking emails I found this on mine.....

Very timely, or as I have long suspected... anything you search is relayed to someone for a purpose....

No matter.....

It is interesting, as is what Phil is explaining..... and somewhat supportive of him.

Got Questions.Org
Question: "Is it possible to know when Jesus is coming back?"

Answer: Matthew 24:36-44 declares, "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father...Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come...So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect Him." At first glance, these verses would seem to provide a clear and explicit answer to the question. No, no one can know when Jesus is coming back. However, those verses do not say that no one will ever be able to know when Jesus will return. Most Bible scholars would say that Jesus, now glorified in heaven, knows the timing of His return, indicating that the phrase "nor the Son" does not mean Jesus will never know when He will return. Similarly, it is possible that, while Matthew 24:36-44 indicates that no one at that time could know the timing of Jesus' return, God could reveal the timing of Jesus' return to someone in the future.

In addition, there is Acts 1:7, which states, "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by His own authority." This was said by Jesus after the disciples asked Him if He was at that time going to restore the kingdom to Israel. This would seem to confirm the message of Matthew 24. It is not for us to know the timing of Jesus coming back. But there is also the question of which return these passages are referring to. Are they speaking of the Rapture or the Second Coming? Which return is unknowable—the Rapture, the Second Coming, or both? While the Rapture is presented as being imminent and mysterious, the timing of the Second Coming could potentially be known based on end-times prophecy.

With that said, let us be abundantly clear: we do not believe that God has revealed to anyone when Jesus is coming back, and we see nothing in Scripture which indicates that God will ever reveal to anyone when Jesus is coming back. Matthew 24:36-44, while spoken directly to the people in Jesus' time, also contains a general principle. The timing of Jesus' return and the end of the age is not for us to know. Scripture nowhere encourages us to try to determine the date. Rather, we are to "keep watch, because we do not know on which day our Lord will come" (v. 42). We are to "be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when we do not expect Him" (v. 44). The force of Jesus' words diminishes if at some point in the future someone will be able to determine when He is coming back. If the date is discovered, we no longer need to "keep watch" or "be ready." So, with the principle of Matthew 24:36-44 is mind, no, it is not possible for anyone to know the date that Jesus is coming back.

Despite this clear biblical principle, many throughout Christian history have attempted to prophesy the date that Jesus is coming back. Many such dates have been proposed, and all of them have been wrong. Most, if not all, of those who have predicted specific dates for Jesus' return have had questionable, if not heretical, doctrinal positions on other issues. As it was said above, based on Matthew 24:36 and Acts 1:7, it is not God's desire for us to calculate the day that Jesus is coming back. Anyone who undertakes such a task is, if nothing else, misguided.

The key points are (1) the Bible nowhere encourages us to attempt to discover the timing of Jesus' return and (2) the Bible gives no explicit data by which the timing of Jesus' return can be determined. Rather than developing wild and speculative calculations to determine when Jesus is coming back, the Bible encourages us to "keep watch" and "be ready" (Matthew 24:42-44). The fact that the day of Jesus' return is unknown should motivate us to live every day in light of the imminence of Christ's return.

[LaSpino3]

Ginger, thanks for your comments. I would like to discuss several issues concerning, With that said, let us be abundantly clear: we do not believe that God has revealed to anyone when Jesus is coming back, and we see nothing in Scripture which indicates that God will ever reveal to anyone when Jesus is coming back. Matthew 24:36-44, while spoken directly to the people in Jesus' time, also contains a general principle. The timing of Jesus' return and the end of the age is not for us to know. Scripture nowhere encourages us to try to determine the date. Rather, we are to "keep watch, because we do not know on which day our Lord will come" (v. 42). We are to "be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when we do not expect Him" (v. 44). The force of Jesus' words diminishes if at some point in the future someone will be able to determine when He is coming back. If the date is discovered, we no longer need to "keep watch" or "be ready." So, with the principle of Matthew 24:36-44 is mind, no, it is not possible for anyone to know the date that Jesus is coming back.

You brought up many interesting and vital points, may start a tread on the subjects contained in your remarks. Phil


I would like to take a little different approach to the subject concerning Matthew 24 and Mark 13:32, "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."

Jesus was with his disciples on the top of the Mt. of Olives when they asked him to response to several questions, "When shall be the sign of your coming, and of the end of the age?"
One very important question needs to be established, that being, is Jesus God? is He the God of creation? If so, he must be,

Omnipotent meaning "Almighty?"
Omnipresent, meaning present in all places at all times?
Omniscient, meaning to have infinite knowledge?

So, is Jesus God?

In Matthew 1:23 we read, "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us."

In K.J.B. 1 Timothy 3:16 we read, "Without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God (Jesus) was manifest in the flesh," meaning he showed himself openly.

Revelation 1:8, Jesus own words claimed to be the "Alpha and Omega, the Almighty."

Colossians 1:16, "For by him (Jesus) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible,---."

John 1:1-33, "The Word (speaking of Jesus) was God. ---- All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made."

Hebrews 1:10, the Father said of his Son, "Thou, LORD, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands."

Now tie all the above together and read Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

After reading and studying the above I have concluded that Jesus is the Almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth, and that he is, omniscient, meaning to know all things.
But that doesn't sit well with his comments in Mark 13, "No man knows, --- not even the Son."

Therefore, there has to be another reason. I have concluded that when he was sent by the Father to do the Father's will, the subject of his return was not to be revealed at this time, therefore making it a non-issue. Many things were not revealed to the apostles at the time of Jesus earthly ministry. Some being, the sending of the Holy Spirit; the grafting in of the gentiles, making the gentile church co-heirs with Christ; the exact time of his death burial and resurrection; His ascension into heaven, the raising from the dead all believers and their being caught away into heaven to forever be with the Lord. And finally, his return to dispose of his enemies and setting up of His kingdom.

All these mysteries had been hidden in the mind of the Father and the resurrected Christ. But these mysteries Have been and will continue to be revealed at the designated time, no sooner, no later.
Laspino3

[Choir Loft]

In both Matthew 24 and Mark 13:32, days before the Jesus was to go to the cross, the disciples asked the Lord two questions. The second question concerned the Lord's return at the end of the age. The second question will be the focus of this article. It was days before the cross when the disciples and Jesus had departed from the temple and went up to the Mt. of Olives. As they looked down on the area where the Temple and buildings in the complex stood,

Matthew 24:3, the disciples asked, "Tell us ---- what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world (age)?"

.......

I have always felt the scriptures hold the secrets of Christ's return to establish the kingdom. Many clues have been written within the pages of scripture, and only now are being revealed.

Laspino3

If scripture holds the secret of Christ's second coming, then why do you misinterpret it?

Protestant Christians make their biggest mistake when they interpret Jesus' words to Jews as if they (gentile believers) knew better what He meant.  They don't. 
Try again.  Jesus was speaking to Jews.  Jesus understood the inference of their question.   His answer referred to the Year of Jubilee.  (Leviticus chapters 25 - 27)

Let's go back to square one and take another look.

The LAW of Moses specifically outlined when certain events would happen.   For instance, every seventh day was a sabbath day of rest and prayer.  That's Saturday, by the way, not Sunday.  Gentiles start off with a misconception before things really get going.  Sabbath observation is from sunset on Friday until sunset on Saturday, not one hour only on Sunday morning.

The caveat here is that most, but not all, Jewish holidays begin at the hour of sunset.   Remember this important point.  I'll get back to it later......

The LAW of Moses specifically states that every seventh year is a shemitah (pronounced sh-ME-ta) year or sabbath year or week of years (a week means 7).  During the shemitah year the land is not to be cultivated.

The LAW of Moses specifically states that every seventh shemitah year shall be followed by the Year of Jubilee.  (7 x 7 = 49 + 1 = 50 years) During the Year of Jubilee all debts public and private are to be erased.  All real estate is to be transferred back to its original owner and all indentured servants are to be freed.  There are a number of other issues that revert to previous states, but basically the Year of Jubilee was to be a financial and moral reset of the entire society. 

The advent of ha-mashiach (messiah) was then AND IS NOW intimately connected with the Year of Jubilee. 

Daniel and Ezekiel sat in Babylon and prophesied the Second Coming by referencing weeks of years (shemitah) and the Jubilee Year.  The book of Revelation speaks to it as well.  Why do Christians ignore it?   They ignore it because they think they know better than Jesus, Moses or any of the prophets how things will play out.  This is a classic case of the blind leading the blind.   Stupidity is never a virtue.

The problem with the Year of Jubilee is that Moses died before completion of the first fifty years - before the first Year of Jubilee. 

Joshua led the Hebrew tribes into the promised land, but NEVER observed the Year of Jubilee.  Jews have NEVER observed the Year of Jubilee.   As a consequence, the tally of years beginning with the giving of Moses' Law had been lost.  By the time of the Jewish exile in Babylon it had been completely forgotten.  Every Jew then and now is intimately aware of the Babylonian captivity.  A lot of gentile Christians haven't a clue.  That's why their interpretations go wrong.  They completely ignore the Torah (1st five books of the Bible).  They never reference the Tanakh (the Law, the Prophets and the Writings).  Jesus and every Jew of His time knew these documents intimately.  Today's Christians foolishly do not. 

Seventy years after their exile began, some Jews returned to Israel.  Some.  Not all.  Those that did return had no idea when to calculate the tally of years for Jubilee.

By the time of Jesus advent, it was common knowledge among Jews that nobody knew how to tally the Year of Jubilee - the time of refreshment of the land and of human liberty - the time of divine visitation upon Israel.  When Jews asked Jesus to give them the day and hour Our Lord did not answer.  THEY were asking about the Year of Jubilee - the calculation of weeks of years spoken of by Daniel and Ezekiel (and later by John the revelator).  Christians don't understand the question - but they arrogantly pretend to have all the answers anyway. 

Would HE return on a Friday at sunset or would HE return on some other day at some other time? 
THAT is what Jesus was being asked.   
Instead Jesus said only the Father knew 'the day and the hour'. 

Why? 

Because the problem of the lost track of time - of the lost beginning of Jubilee was a mathematical problem NOT a spiritual one.  Nobody knew when Jubilee was to be calculated and God wasn't talking.  He's still keeping it quiet.  Anybody who says different has NO idea what they're talking about.

Don't trivialize the obvious and don't complicate the obvious.

Do not neglect the Tanakh - the part Jesus and the apostles studied.   If its good enough for Jesus it ought to be good enough for you. 

There may be no cure for stupidity or the arrogance of a fool, but the true solution to ignorance is study. 2 Timothy 2:15

that's me, hollering from the choir loft... 

[Choir Loft]

Jesus ascended into the clouds. The only witnesses were the apostles. He would return the same way- in the clouds over Jerusalem during the 66-70 war period with the Romans. That was the Revelation of Jesus Christ's power and authority as He stated to the chief priests.
Mark 14:61,  61 But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer. Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?"
62 "I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

There is no record of Jesus' return either in the Epistles of the New Covenant, the predictions of the prophets of the Tanakh, in Revelation or in the secular record.

He did NOT return during the Roman sack of Jerusalem.   If He had returned there would have been a consistent report of it.

Revelation 6:14 states the sky will roll up like a scroll, meaning from the outside edges to the middle, when Christ returns.   There has never been any report of such an astronomical phenomenon at any time in history.

Signs in the clouds, faces in potato chips or pizza dough do not support any assertion of the return of Jesus Christ to the earth.

What have you been smoking?

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

[notreligus]

False Signs
2Th 2:9  The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders,
2Th 2:10  and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
2Th 2:11  Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false,
2Th 2:12  in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

We Do Not Have to Live in Fear
2Th 2:13  But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.
2Th 2:14  To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Th 2:15  So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.
2Th 2:16  Now may our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father, who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace,
2Th 2:17  comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.

[Ginger Rella]

Is Holy Spirit revealing day and hour?

NO!!!!!

[Choir Loft]

Choir loft wrote, "The clues you write about are misinterpretations based upon subjective opinion and a lack of historic perspective."

Phil replies, I would appreciate it if you would discuss my post and not what you think. I have spent many hours researching every word in both Matthew 24 and Mark 13 concerning the subject "what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world (age)?"   Now because you think my work is "subjective opinion and lacks historic perspective" doesn't make you right and me wrong. Now why don't you tell me clearly what you think is subjective opinion and lack of historic perspective concerning my post and maybe you can both learn something about the subject.

One more thing, please don't talk down to me, and treat me like I'm some first year Bible student!

Phil

"Throughout history, truth has been considered a form of dementia, and those who have turned away from fantasy and fixed their eyes on reality, judged insane."
- Malcolm Muggeridge JESUS THE MAN WHO LIVES

Foundations of Logic and Truth
Everyone who posts here writes what they think; good, bad or indifferent. Take my words for what they are.  Think about them if the motivation to learn still lurks within.  Reject them if you already know all truth.

"The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their proper names." - Chinese proverb

Subjective opinion is that which is based not upon Biblical context, but buzz words, religious slogans and a predisposition to accept prejudiced interpretations.
Objective opinion is that which is based upon Biblical context, chronicles of history and archaeological evidence where it exists.  Objective opinion is based upon truth.

What is truth?  Truth is that which is consistent with what is.

The odd quality of truth is that it will be found by those who earnestly seek it.  Having found it, however, all discover that truth demands action.  Since most refuse the action demanded of them they reject truth and its requirement of action (read the book of James).  Therefore they withdraw into the darkness of their own baseless subjective opinion so as to justify error and sin. (John 3:19)

An example of subjective opinion is the dogmatic belief the church has replaced Israel as the apple of God's eye. (Replacement Theology)
An example of objective opinion is the fact that despite Israel's unfaithfulness toward God, God remains faithful to them.  The State of Israel is historic proof of this fact.

Second Coming
It is ironic that gentiles, who claim to know better than Jews about the return of the Jewish messiah, always revert to unsubstantiated calculations.  They fail to understand how the basis for calculations was lost because they do not consider what's written in the Torah about it.  They ignore the Law because they've been falsely taught it is of no consequence.  This is true for almost all of Christendom.  Pagan ideology has been substituted for Biblical teaching since the gentiles assumed control of the church in the third and forth century.  References to dogmatic dissertations since that time only reinforce false ideology and presumptions.   They do not seek truth.   If a man believes the world is flat he will only consult writings that agree with his opinion and he will live his whole life in fear of falling off the edge of it.

Two purposes of the first coming of Christ were;
1. To seek the lost (meaning lost Jews) & to declare the Kingdom of God.  Out of Zion shall come the Torah (Isaiah 2:3)
2. To fulfill the Law. (Matthew 5:17)

Since gentiles neither know nor respect the Law, they do not know what Jesus meant in Matthew 5:17.  Confusion reigns when truth is denied.  Since gentiles embrace hatred of Jews and Jew Law they cannot accept or understand what Jesus was doing in the first place.  Consequently they substitute their own subjective philosophy, which changes every ten to fifteen years.  Hence Christian leaders struggle to reinvent the gospel so as to "make it relevant to society".  Ever heard that phrase before?  Every first year Bible student has heard the phrase. 

The Law of God never changes - a fact which escapes everyone who denies the efficacy of the Law and who in turn refuse to live it. Nearly all Christian ideology is based on changeable philosophy, not the Law which does not change.  As a result they live in error.  They do not know what Jesus meant in Matthew 7:26.  He was talking about philosophical legalism vs. the context of God's immutable Law. (*)  As a consequence Christians continue live under philosophical legalism and sin even as they mistakenly assume they're freed by grace, which is justified by the Law and which they do not understand. 

I know many Christians who openly state the entire Old Covenant ought to be stricken from the Bible and burned because it is of no account today.   Nothing could be further from the truth, yet subjective opinion and anti-semitic attitudes reign supreme in the church today.  Nothing has changed in 1,700 years.

Most Christians have no idea what happened on the cross or what Jesus was talking about during the last seder.  Christians assume Christ's death gives them open season to sin as much as they please.   They may not admit that during a religious discussion, but they LIVE IT in fact.   

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LICENSE TO SIN.

Jesus' last meal with His disciples was a seder, not a dinner party.  Christians have no idea of the significance of that event - other than that the gathering made a nice religious painting/icon.   They don't know the difference between a daily evening meal and a seder nor what Jesus meant when He said, during the seder, His blood would validate or ratify the New Covenant. Why did He say that during the seder?  It has a deep meaning gentiles do not understand because they deny the Law. 

In the end, people will believe what they please so as to go on with their pet sins and wickedness. This is the nature and purpose of subjective opinion - to justify sin.

The question posited by this thread suggests the Ruach Ha-Kodesh, Holy Spirit, is hinting at the day and hour of Yeshuah's Second Coming. When Jesus said "only the Father knows the day and hour" of Jesus' return, He was stating absolute truth.  GOD is NOT going to be dropping hints about it like some school girl in class who wants everyone to think she knows a secret.  What gentiles really ought to be concerned with is what the Master will find us doing when He returns?   What would He find us doing if He returned today?  I shudder to consider the thought........ 

He would find church leaders sexually abusing children, justifying sin in the name of grace, embracing aberrant social behavior and wickedness in the name of love, persecuting Jews and attacking the State of Israel (Genesis 12:3 & the BDS movement).  For these sins and many more will God judge the earth - beginning with the church (1 Peter 4:17).

This judgment has begun even as we debate its reality on these pages.  Watch and learn, pilgrim.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft....

(*) I am certain someone will quote another religious slogan and proclaim "we are saved by grace not law".  Such a person will only be demonstrating a deep ignorance of Law & grace, for no one can be saved apart from the Law.  The Law cannot save.  Why?  Because the Law says so.  The Law justifies grace, which in turn enables the believer to live according to the Law (book of Romans).

[Choir Loft]

Is Holy Spirit revealing day and hour?

NO!!!!!

I've said the same thing continually, though not in so few words as you have done.

Do you think they'll believe either of us?

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

[Choir Loft]

Jesus ascended into the clouds. The only witnesses were the apostles. He would return the same way- in the clouds over Jerusalem during the 66-70 war period with the Romans. That was the Revelation of Jesus Christ's power and authority as He stated to the chief priests.
Mark 14:61,  61 But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer. Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?"
62 "I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

Right and wrong all at the same time.

Jesus will NOT return in the clouds over Jerusalem!   He will return near the town of Bethany.  He did NOT return during the Roman sack of Jerusalem.  There is absolutely no legitimate documentation of this happening.   It is a future event.  Your preterist dogma and Biblical ignorance is showing.

WHY NOT JERUSALEM?   It's in the Law, the Torah.    It's also in Luke 24:50-51 and Acts 1:11, but its explained in the Law (book of Exodus).

Read on, pilgrim.

The location of Bethany is important and has spiritual as well as future significance.  Where is Bethany? 

The East Gate of Jerusalem was called the Gate of Mercy by the Hebrews.  The Law talks about Mercy, which I'll cover at the end of this post.  For now, it was through the Mercy Gate that Jesus entered at the beginning of Pesach prior to His crucifixion.  Gentiles observe the event as Palm Sunday (even though the day of the week is debatable). 

Beyond the East Gate is the Kidron Valley and eastward from the Kidron Valley the ground rises into a small hill.  A park on that hill is traditionally known as the Garden of Gethsemane.  Jesus liked to hang out there.  Beyond the hill the ground dips again to reveal the town of Bethany - east of Jerusalem, east of the Kidron Valley and east of Gethsemane. 

When Jesus ascended into heaven He ascended near the town of Bethany - to the EAST of Jerusalem. (Luke 24:50-51)  After He disappeared into the clouds, the disciples of Jesus were told the Master would return "in the same way" (Acts 1:11), near Bethany.

Why Bethany?  Why the East Gate?

Because the Law states that one MUST physically approach God from the EAST. (book of Exodus)

The establishment of God's presence upon the earth was signified by the Wilderness Tabernacle and later by the Temple in Jerusalem. 

It's pattern of construction was similar to both and its use prescribed in very specific terms.   For instance, there was only one way to approach God because there was only one entrance specified for the tabernacle and the temple.  There were many ways to ascend to the temple mount, but only one way to enter the Holy Place.   Christians like to say Jesus is the only way, but they don't know why.   The reason is that the Law states there is only one way to approach God and that way was from the east.  It's the Law.

One who knows and is known by God approaches the Almighty in Christ FROM THE EAST.   We generally don't worry about what direction we face when we're praying, because Jesus has ALREADY ENTERED THE HOLY OF HOLIES and is at this moment ministering before God on our behalf.   But the Law says He HAD to enter from the East.   Read on pilgrim.....

Therefore when Jesus entered Jerusalem at the beginning of Pesach (Palm Sunday), He approached FROM THE EAST - from the region of the Kidron Valley.
On the night Jesus was betrayed into crucifixion, He and His disciples were in prayer in the Garden of Gethsemane - east of Jerusalem.
When Jesus was arrested He was escorted into Jerusalem FROM THE EAST.
The angelic messengers told Jesus' disciples He would return the same way - from the East - from Bethany - to enter Jerusalem again in fulfillment of the Law - FROM THE EAST.

MERCY - by the Law
As an additional point it should also be understood that Hebrews were required to sacrifice animals at the altar in the Holy Place of the tabernacle and later the temple.  Each person was required to bring their sacrifice with them and to present it at the altar.  The priests couldn't do it for them - according to the Law.  Each had to do it himself or herself.  There were exceptions, of course, but as a rule a person had to bring a sin offering.  Nobody could do it for him/her. This Law still applies. 

Roman Catholics, the Orthodox churches, Lutherans, Episcopalians and the Church of England falsely teach that their priests do it for the congregation, but that is false doctrine.  Nobody can do it for you - by the Law. You MUST come to God on your own, in person, and surrender your sacrifice.  It's the Law.  What is the sacrifice God demands?  It is the perfect sacrifice of the blood of Jesus (not lambs or doves or bulls).  The sacrifice is provided by God, but that's the only part that is provided.  Each individual must still get up and come forward to ask.  Evangelists don't usually go into the specifics of this requirement.  They just tell people they have to do it that way - to physically come to Christ - who in turn approaches God FROM THE EAST.  Nobody questions the evangelist's directions, but that's why.  It's the Law.  DO IT!

The Law says each individual must come forth before God to ask forgiveness in order to receive it.  IT IS NOT AUTOMATIC.  You have to get up off your, lounge chair, and DO IT.  The sacrifice one must bring isn't a lamb or a dove, which was temporary. The sacrifice God honors is the permanent sacrifice of the blood of Jesus, BUT BRING IT THEY MUST else there is NO forgiveness ACCORDING TO THE LAW.  God accepts nothing else, by the Law.  It's the only way, by the Law.

Finally we understand, according to the Law, that the return of the messiah (anointed One) will be near Bethany - EAST OF JERUSALEM according to the Law.

This is a future event, not preterist poppycock.

Hope this helps.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...


       

[robycop3]

  Jesus said ONLY HIS FATHER knows the exact time of His return. That shuts the door on date-setting by men.
  But He gave us some prophecy about the general time, saying it's be immediately after the great trib ended. And He said He'd be in great power & glory.(Matt. 24:29-30) and be SEEN BY ALL, including those who pierced Him, meaning the souls in hades will see His return, as well as all alive on earth. (Rev. 1:7)
  And the great trib, etc. won't happen til the antichrist & his sidekick, the false prophet, come to power.

[Choir Loft]

  Jesus said ONLY HIS FATHER knows the exact time of His return. That shuts the door on date-setting by men.
  But He gave us some prophecy about the general time, saying it's be immediately after the great trib ended. And He said He'd be in great power & glory.(Matt. 24:29-30) and be SEEN BY ALL, including those who pierced Him, meaning the souls in hades will see His return, as well as all alive on earth. (Rev. 1:7)
  And the great trib, etc. won't happen til the antichrist & his sidekick, the false prophet, come to power.

Your broad statements can be separated into three separate parts, each of which are controversial.

#1 Date setting - The reason for Jesus' statement was mathematical, not necessarily prophetic.  It has to do with the 4th commandment - the sabbath.

Most references to End Times events refer to the prophecies of Daniel who predicted a seven year period of events. Where did Daniel get this seven year period?  It goes further back to Mosaic Law.   The 4th of 10 commandments is an observance of every 7th day as a day of rest.  In Hebrew its called shabbat.  In the book of Leviticus a sabbatical year is mentioned.  Every 7th year the land was to go uncultivated.  This was called a sabbath or shabbat year for the land.  Moses set down the law of the Year of Jubilee which was to be observed every seven shabbat years. (7 + 7 = 49) + 1 = 50

Every fiftieth year was to be a year of social and financial reset called the Year of Jubilee.  All debts were to be forgiven. All indentured servants/slaves were to be released.  All real estate was to revert to its original owner and so on.   Many radical changes were to be observed during the Year of Jubilee.   However, Moses died before the 50 years could be observed.  His successor, Joshua, never required the Jubilee observance.

Generations later the Davidic kingdom had been divided.  The northern kingdom of Israel had been disbursed and the southern kingdom of Judah was taken captive to Babylon.  By the time Jews returned to Eretz Israel (land of Israel), the original date which began the Hebrew calendar had been forgotten.  No one could make the calculation for the Year of Jubilee because no one remembered where to start the count.   By the time of Jesus all Jews were aware of this discrepancy, which is why Jesus was asked about it.  Nobody knew when to calculate the Year of Jubilee or when to expect Daniels' final week of years to begin unfolding.  Therefore Jesus was asked.  His answer was that only God remembered and God wasn't talking.   The problem is one of mathematical calculation, not necessarily spiritual insight.   If the reader thinks he or she has a lock on this number, then that person is doing themselves a conceited disservice.

Most Jewish holidays begin on Friday at sunset and end on Saturday at sunset.   Most, but not all.  A few rare ones are observed at noon.   THIS IS WHY Jesus said nobody knows the day or hour.  Nobody knows the day because the basis for calendar calculation had been lost and nobody knows the hour because it hadn't ever been specified in the first place.
Theories concerning calculation are further confused because the Gregorian solar calendar, presently used by gentiles, wasn't adopted until October 1582.  The Gregorian calendar is a solar calendar, based upon orbits of the earth around the sun.  The lunar calendar, which was always used by every ancient culture, is based upon orbits of the moon around the earth.  Muslim calendars are lunar calendars to this day.   Add to this the problem that Hebrews use BOTH lunar and solar calculation of dates and you may begin to understand why so many predictions about dates and times come up wrong.   They simply don't know how to count the days.  (Ask any rabbi for a current Hebrew calendar and you'll see what I mean.  Many of them list both Gregorian and lunar dates on their 30 day grid.)

#2 Souls in hades - Hades is a pagan Greek reference to the original Hebrew concept of Sheol - the place of the sleeping dead.   Those who sleep in sheol know nothing until the resurrection.  They neither watch events of earth nor are aware of activity in heaven.  Does the reader spend all night watching things when asleep or does the reader perceive nothing when asleep?  Consider the simple meaning of words when wild speculation is offered to support a theory.  Sheol is a storage unit for the dead, not a torture chamber.  Pagan myth speaks of a torture chamber for the dead.  The Bible does NOT.  The Bible never speaks of the popular concept of hell because it doesn't exist except in the minds of fear mongering churches who believe their membership cards are fire-proof and their priests, not God, determine the eternal destiny of all mankind.

#3 End Times timing - is often misapplied, misquoted and misunderstood.  For millennia, scholars believers and non-believers alike have attempted to create a chronological order out of the prophecies of Ezekiel, Daniel, Jesus, and the book of Revelation.  They have all failed - each and every time.   Why?  Because scriptural revelation is meant to testify as to God's future intent and plan for humanity.  It NEVER gives precise dates and times.   Biblical prophecy is meant to be interpreted like mile markers along the Interstate.  When you see the mile marker you can be certain you're going the right direction.  Mile markers tell you very little about your destination except that you're getting closer to it.  Biblical prophecy is more like mile markers than a road map.  History is replete with twists and turns and dead ends not necessarily predicted in scripture.  Nevertheless God's plan continues inexorably toward a certain end.

Considering these indications, the Great Tribulation has already happened in history.   If one examines Biblical descriptions of those times they match perfectly with World War II.  WWII was the greatest persecution of Jews history has ever seen.   The entire continent of Europe and much of Asia was laid waste.  Instead of a glorious German future, Nazi aggression reduced Europe to stone-age living conditions.  It doesn't get any worse than that!  Millions of tons of shipping was sunk, a unique aspect of that war never discussed or mentioned in any other history account except the Bible.  Conservative estimates state over sixty million people died.  Uncounted millions more lost their health homes and property.  Atomic weapons were first used at the end of WWII the effects of which are accurately described in 2 Peter 3:7.  More Christians were martyred during the 20th century than all previous years combined! Ignorance of scripture and human history allows false interpretations to flourish.  It's an axiom of human behavior that it's almost impossible to persuade one of the truth who has convinced himself of a deception. 

It is not given for man to know his future, but man tries to see it nonetheless.  God's revelations, however detailed, are unsatisfactory because they are non-specific.  You cannot, for example, make a profitable investment in the stock market based upon Biblical prophecy.

Anti-semitism would have otherwise decent Christians drooling over a future second holocaust.   Wasn't the one bad enough?  Apparently not.  Jew haters secretly wish for another one. Namely every Christian and Muslim who hopes for another opportunity to see Jewish blood flow onto the ground.  What are Christians saying when they look forward to another holocaust?  They are declaring how much they hate Jews as well as their king, a fellow named Jesus.

WWIII scenarios were made popular during 1950's fear mongering over Soviet-American nuclear exchanges which never happened.   Few realize World War III actually began on August 2, 1990 and continues to this day.  A world war, by definition, describes conflict which begins in a single location and affects every continent on the globe.  That's what is happening now.  That's what will continue until some radical event changes the trend.   

America and her allies are drunk on war.   We shall continue to drink the cup of murder destruction and disaster until divine providence puts an end to it - one way or the other.

The church, which once loudly proclaimed Jesus Christ as its lord, is now actively engaged in burying Him again in word and deed if not history itself.  The church has been and continues to be the greatest persecutor of Jews in history.  Muslim efforts grow pale compared to historic and modern church hatred of the Jews - the people of He who they call Lord and Savior.   We live in the days of the great apostasy.   In these days the restraint of true religion has been withdrawn by church leaders, most of whom do not know God, do not respect or teach God's Law and who are only engaged in making money in the god bu$iness.  Morality dies when money becomes the primary goal of religion.

Have the wicked times already passed us by?  By no means.  Perversion and hate and pollution grow greater each day.   The dangers of global destruction by means of pollution are now greater than that of nuclear fire.  Does anyone care?  If lack of action is any evidence, then no.   Nobody cares.  We all of us simply sit back like hypnotized zombies before our TV and computer screens and watch the debacle unfold before our eyes.

God is the only one who cares.   He's told us something of what is happening, but most really view these revelations as too distant and not ever really touching any of us seriously.

The religious flavor of the day ranges between passive indifference toward God to outright rejection and hatred of the Most High and His Law.

It isn't over yet, boys and girls.   Not by a long shot.  Not if the Master of the Universe has anything to do with it.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft.....