Is Sunday sacredness in the Bible?

[Hobie]

The Bible is quite silent on Sunday sacredness or day of worship, so those who claim they follow 'Solo Scriptura'  or the "Bible Only" Protestant Churches contradict themselves by observing it as a replacement for the Sabbath. Many say that the reason it is held as the day of worship is since Jesus rose on the first day, or because the Holy Spirit was given to the early church on the Day of Pentecost, or that Paul broke bread and ate on the first day at Troas, or had offering brought to him on the first day to take to those suffering in Jerusalem. But history and logic verify that none of the arguments are valid, and even those who observe Sunday worship admit its more 'tradition' than scriptural. Nowhere it the Bible does it declare Sunday sacredness, or is the day of worship changed by Christ or the Apostles.

Many Christians believe and teach that Sunday is the "Christian sabbath" or that a change was made by God to the Sunday observance, but scripture says nothing on this. Now lets look at how the belief was held by the Reformers as they knew Sunday sacredness was not scriptural.....

The Reformers held that Sunday observance was not juris divini (of divine law), but only quasi juris divini (of semidivine law); yet they did would not allow that the claim that it could be changed and appointed by the authority of the Roman Catholic church (Augsburg Confession of 1536, part 2, art. 7, "Of Ecclesiastical Power"). However the Protestant churches held to the idea of Sunday sacredness, and followed the Catholic practice of Sunday observance.  This is not found in the Bible, and Christ confirmed that as Creator He made the Sabbath for man, and He kept the Sabbath:

Mark 2:27-28 King James Version (KJV)
"27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath."

Christ observed the Sabbath and He set an example for us to follow:

Luke 4:16 King James Version (KJV)
"16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read."

The practice of observing the first day of the week as Sabbath has no sanction either in Christ or in the New Testament. Jesus kept the Sabbath and He went to on Sabbath to the synagogue to worship, and nowhere does scripture have anything contesting this. We find it in many text:

Luke 4:17 King James Version (KJV)
"17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,"

The Sabbath was not only for going to church in order to worship but also to hear God's Word. On the Sabbath day we find Christ in His mission to teach, to relieve the oppressed, to heal every kind of disease, and to restore those who are brokenhearted and without hope. And Christ did even more:

Luke 4:31-41 King James Version (KJV)
"31 And came down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and taught them on the sabbath days.
32 And they were astonished at his doctrine: for his word was with power.
33 And in the synagogue there was a man, which had a spirit of an unclean devil, and cried out with a loud voice,
34 Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; the Holy One of God.
35 And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him. And when the devil had thrown him in the midst, he came out of him, and hurt him not.
36 And they were all amazed, and spake among themselves, saying, What a word is this! for with authority and power he commandeth the unclean spirits, and they come out.
37 And the fame of him went out into every place of the country round about.
38 And he arose out of the synagogue, and entered into Simon's house. And Simon's wife's mother was taken with a great fever; and they besought him for her.
39 And he stood over her, and rebuked the fever; and it left her: and immediately she arose and ministered unto them.
40 Now when the sun was setting, all they that had any sick with divers diseases brought them unto him; and he laid his hands on every one of them, and healed them.
41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ."

We also see how on the Sabbath day Christ handled the demon-possessed man who confronted Jesus, and He rebuked the evil angels just as He rebuked the Devil himself.

Mathew 4:1-11 King James Version (KJV)
"1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve."

Notice He states "Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve", worship is important. Now much of the Christian world reverences Sunday or holds to Sunday sacredness, but did God know that this attempt to change His holy Sabbath would occur? Lets look:

"And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. " Daniel 7:25

"Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them." Acts 20:28-30

God predicted that from within the church itself, there would arise men who would attempt to change what He had set from Creation and His holy law. So the prophecy has shown to be true, and it has come to about as the Sabbath and those who kept it were swept away, and a substitute put in.

[beam]

The Bible is quite silent on Sunday sacredness or day of worship,

So why do you even ask the question?   That question could have made sense back in the 19th century when over half of the population couldn't read and people believed what they heard.  Christians today know that we don't have to worship on a certain day.   The only, what I take as a command, Is the verse in Heb 10:25 that tells us not to forsake assembling ourselves together.

The question should be: Is there any command in the New Covenant for Sabbath-keeping and what are the rules for Sabbath-keeping.   Since it is stated in 2Cor3:7-11 that the 10 commandments were temporary and are done away and of course they were commands for Israel only, there is no reason to believe we have any special day to worship and keep Holy.  Here are some good reasons not to believe we have to observe the now-defunct old covenant laws which include the weekly Sabbath.

Even the Israelite people (to whom the law was given initially—Deuteronomy 5:1-5) have been released from the Mosaic code. The following list reflects some of the terms used in the New Testament to signify that severance: "fulfilled" (Matthew 5:17), "dead to," (Romans 7:4), "discharged from" (Romans 7:6), "passing away" (2 Corinthians 3:7, 11, 13), "no longer under" (Galatians 3:25), "no longer bondservant" (Galatians 4:7), "set free" (Galatians 5:1), "called for freedom" (Galatians 5:13), "broke down" and "abolished" (Ephesians 2:14-15), "counted as loss" (Philippians 3:7), "taken away; nailed to the cross" (Colossians 2:14), "no longer judged by law" (Colossians 2:16), a "new, better covenant," with "better promises" than bestowed under the "old" covenant (Hebrews 8:6, 13).

Such expressions could be multiplied, but these should be sufficient to show that the Mosaic code, as a law system, is no longer in force.  Excerpts from The Meaning of Romans 3:31
By Wayne Jackson
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[Hobie]

So why do you even ask the question?   That question could have made sense back in the 19th century when over half of the population couldn't read and people believed what they heard.  Christians today know that we don't have to worship on a certain day.   The only, what I take as a command, Is the verse in Heb 10:25 that tells us not to forsake assembling ourselves together.

The question should be: Is there any command in the New Covenant for Sabbath-keeping and what are the rules for Sabbath-keeping.   Since it is stated in 2Cor3:7-11 that the 10 commandments were temporary and are done away and of course they were commands for Israel only, there is no reason to believe we have any special day to worship and keep Holy.  Here are some good reasons not to believe we have to observe the now-defunct old covenant laws which include the weekly Sabbath.

Even the Israelite people (to whom the law was given initially—Deuteronomy 5:1-5) have been released from the Mosaic code. The following list reflects some of the terms used in the New Testament to signify that severance: "fulfilled" (Matthew 5:17), "dead to," (Romans 7:4), "discharged from" (Romans 7:6), "passing away" (2 Corinthians 3:7, 11, 13), "no longer under" (Galatians 3:25), "no longer bondservant" (Galatians 4:7), "set free" (Galatians 5:1), "called for freedom" (Galatians 5:13), "broke down" and "abolished" (Ephesians 2:14-15), "counted as loss" (Philippians 3:7), "taken away; nailed to the cross" (Colossians 2:14), "no longer judged by law" (Colossians 2:16), a "new, better covenant," with "better promises" than bestowed under the "old" covenant (Hebrews 8:6, 13).

Such expressions could be multiplied, but these should be sufficient to show that the Mosaic code, as a law system, is no longer in force.  Excerpts from The Meaning of Romans 3:31
By Wayne Jackson
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People still don't know, as many think the Bible actually says to worship Sunday

[Hobie]

Worshipping on Sunday goes back at least two thousand years before Jesus Christ.  Ra was the sun god of Egypt, Baal of the Phoenicians, Molech of the Ammonites, Ha-dad of the Syrians, Apollo of the Greeks and Mithra of the Persians and picked up by the Romans. Shortly after the flood in Noah's time, from the time of the Tower of Babel, pagan sun worship spread throughout the ancient world.

The Romans, when conquering, would take the people's gods, thinking to undermine their power. Many graven images were brought back to Rome, and, later, into the church. For example, the statue of St. Peter in St. Peter's Basilica, was once Jupiter (sun-god). Other names applied to the sun-god are Mithras, Horus, Isvara, Deoius, Jupiter, Rah, Plutus, Ninus, Osiris, Dionysus, Bacchus, Iacchus, Adonis, Attis, etc.

Originally, the obelisk was associated with sun-worship, a symbol of "Baal,", because it pointed toward heaven. We find the same obelisk that stood in Egypt is, now, in the entrance to St. Peter's.

[piecrust]

Hobie, why do you think a day is sacred?

[Hobie]

Hobie, why do you think a day is sacred?

Genesis 2:3
And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

[beam]

It said that God blessed the seventh-day of the creation week.  What it does not say is that God blessed every proceeding seventh-day.  God took the day off, but Jesus said He and His Father work every day.  The Holy Spirit working inside each of us doesn't take a day off.  The Levite priests didn't take the day off and the soldiers marching around Jerico didn't take the day off.  When the Israelites didn't take the day off when they were escaping Egypt.

By the way.  Israelites were not saved by keeping the Sabbath.  They were saved the same way Abraham was saved and the same way we are saved.  When Ellen White claimed if we don't keep Sabbath we will lose our eternal inheritance she was telling a lie.  Sabbath-keeping has never been a salvational issue.  It is not what we do it is what Jesus did.

[Amo]

So why do you even ask the question?   That question could have made sense back in the 19th century when over half of the population couldn't read and people believed what they heard.  Christians today know that we don't have to worship on a certain day.   The only, what I take as a command, Is the verse in Heb 10:25 that tells us not to forsake assembling ourselves together.

The question should be: Is there any command in the New Covenant for Sabbath-keeping and what are the rules for Sabbath-keeping.   Since it is stated in 2Cor3:7-11 that the 10 commandments were temporary and are done away and of course they were commands for Israel only, there is no reason to believe we have any special day to worship and keep Holy.  Here are some good reasons not to believe we have to observe the now-defunct old covenant laws which include the weekly Sabbath.

Even the Israelite people (to whom the law was given initially—Deuteronomy 5:1-5) have been released from the Mosaic code. The following list reflects some of the terms used in the New Testament to signify that severance: "fulfilled" (Matthew 5:17), "dead to," (Romans 7:4), "discharged from" (Romans 7:6), "passing away" (2 Corinthians 3:7, 11, 13), "no longer under" (Galatians 3:25), "no longer bondservant" (Galatians 4:7), "set free" (Galatians 5:1), "called for freedom" (Galatians 5:13), "broke down" and "abolished" (Ephesians 2:14-15), "counted as loss" (Philippians 3:7), "taken away; nailed to the cross" (Colossians 2:14), "no longer judged by law" (Colossians 2:16), a "new, better covenant," with "better promises" than bestowed under the "old" covenant (Hebrews 8:6, 13).

Such expressions could be multiplied, but these should be sufficient to show that the Mosaic code, as a law system, is no longer in force.  Excerpts from The Meaning of Romans 3:31
By Wayne Jackson
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Actually, early Americans were known for their education and ability to read. It was considered a Christian duty to teach children to read that they might read the holy scriptures. The following link addresses such, from which the quote below was taken.

http://www.angelfire.com/la2/prophet1/educationamerica.html

Appendix
DESTINY OF PUBLIC SCHOOLS
(Published in The Guardian of Liberty – January 1923)

   

In the early life of the first English colonies in the present territory of the United States public education was provided for all children. As the settlers penetrated the forests, scaled the mountains, poured into the Mississippi basin and swept across the continent, public schools were everywhere established and sustained.

     Children of the hardy pioneers were gathered into the rural schools and molded into intelligent, upright and homogeneous citizenship. The spirit of the nation was fashioned in the democratic atmosphere of that invigorating school life. There boys and girls received the inspiration to mount the ladder of achievement to its topmost round and render true and lasting service to their country and the world.

     There the foundations were laid in science and literature and art and industry and statecraft. Pupils in those schools drank deeply from the Bible and from textbooks uncensored by alien propagandists the imperishable lessons of moral and spiritual integrity. So was the national character established on a superb and enduring basis.

     As virgin resources and boundless possibilities drew into the West a growing tide of enterprising settlers, rural neighborhoods and villages were quickly transformed into great municipalities. In consequence city graded school systems were developed with peerless equipment and facilities from the kindergarten to the high school.

     To meet the demand for teachers of the highest professional training and efficiency, normal schools and teachers' colleges were established by the States and their number and equipment was increased to keep pace with the growing demand.

     Able and scholarly superintendents were employed to direct the city school systems and advance them to the highest possible degree of efficiency, while State and county supervisors rendered like service to the village and rural schools.

     By the middle of the last century the admirable public school system and the expanding problems of a great and versatile nation accentuated the demand for higher education on a broad and liberal scale. Beginning with Harvard, William and Mary's and Yale, endowed colleges and universities had occupied the field of higher learning from the early colonial days. But the field had widened so rapidly as to require State institutions to supply its demands.

     Immigration that poured into our country shortly before the Civil War from Ireland and other Roman Catholic lands was hostile to public education. It marked the beginning of the campaign that has continued three-fourths of a century to discredit and break down the public schools and supplant them with schools chartered by the papal throne and operated like those of Mexico and South America.

     The Civil War diverted public attention from Roman Catholic maneuvers against our public schools. Under cover of that diversion the hierarchy projected its own rival system in every part of the country and boldly demanded public funds for its maintenance. That demand is urgently pressed in Roman Catholic lands and is generally conceded.

     Not content to develop on our soil a rival system chartered by the Pontifical throne and teaching the papal doctrine of divine right to rule, emissaries of Rome lost no opportunity to emasculate and discredit the public schools. To that end the Bible was everywhere removed from courses of study and its reading in the school room was prohibited.

     Textbooks were then censored and every fact of history discreditable to the papal despotism was thoroughly expunged. From the school readers all selections from the Scriptures and those lessons designed to inculcate moral virtues and to extol the heroism of American patriots and of the martyrs of the Reformation were systematically excluded.

     Objection was made to the singing of sacred and patriotic hymns in the morning exercises. So was the spirit of America and of Christian civilization that has made America glorious banished from the public schools. A visit to the schools by any citizen of mature years or comparison of textbooks now in use in reading and history classes with those in use a generation ago will demonstrate the changes wrought by hostile Roman Catholic power.

     By covert manipulation Roman politicians have wormed their way into boards of education and city and rural school superintendencies and there used their official power to remove the most worthy and efficient teachers and fill their places with an appalling number of Roman Catholics bound by the canon law which outlaws public schools and forbids children of Roman families to attend them.

     Having thus debauched and devastated the public schools to the limit of her power, Rome is using the controlled press and her own three hundred periodicals to discredit them with charges of irreligion and inefficiency. Her malicious aspersions deserve the condemnation of all good citizens.

     The Papacy hates public education. Its law denies the right of civil government to educate the people. There is no education where Rome has enough power to dominate the government. Public schools are distinctively Protestant institutions. They are not found in any Roman Catholic land except in the form of a miserable counterfeit depraved by Bishops of Rome who reign in the midst of illiteracy all but universal.

     The school issue in this country has reached its crisis. We are at the parting of the ways. We must decide whether American children shall be educated in American schools or in the alien schools of Rome. Millions of unassimilated aliens crowded into our cities and millions more that are coming to our shores every decade necessitate a speedy and final decision.

     In spite of their emasculation at papal hands while the nation slept, our public schools possess marvelous efficiency and unbounded potentialities. Purged of Roman poison and restored to their pristine virility and power, they will quickly Americanize the alien Roman Catholic hordes in our cities, exalt in the public conscience the majesty of law and prove a mighty factor in the solution of the grave problems confronting the nation.

     To that end the childhood and youth of the Republic must be educated in those schools. The textbooks and teachers must be imbued with the highest ideals of civic duty and patriotism. The schools themselves must breathe the loftiest spirit of the nation and its homes and churches. They must typify the choicest fruit of Christian civilization.

Obviously the aspirations of the above statement were never realized. The lefty progressive agenda established blissed in our educational system of today being proof of the same.

[Amo]

It said that God blessed the seventh-day of the creation week.  What it does not say is that God blessed every proceeding seventh-day.  God took the day off, but Jesus said He and His Father work every day.  The Holy Spirit working inside each of us doesn't take a day off.  The Levite priests didn't take the day off and the soldiers marching around Jerico didn't take the day off.  When the Israelites didn't take the day off when they were escaping Egypt.

By the way.  Israelites were not saved by keeping the Sabbath.  They were saved the same way Abraham was saved and the same way we are saved.  When Ellen White claimed if we don't keep Sabbath we will lose our eternal inheritance she was telling a lie.  Sabbath-keeping has never been a salvational issue.  It is not what we do it is what Jesus did.

Mar 2:23 And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn. 24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful? 25 And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him? 26 How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him? 27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: 28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

The Sabbath was made for man at creation. Do you not believe the testimony of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. The Sabbath is not just one day at the end of creation, it is and always has been the last day of the seven day week established at creation. Just as the commandment states.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Jesus Christ created the Sabbath, reestablished it for Israel, kept it while here as one of us, admonished others to keep it while here as one of us, and taught its proper observance while here as one of us. You are right when you say it is not about what we do, it is about what Jesus does and did. He kept the Sabbath and taught others to keep it along with the other commandments of God. He said that He did not come to change the law, and that those who would break the commandments and teach others so, would be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. Why do you want to be called the least in the kingdom of heaven?

Salvation has never been by keeping the law, but the fall, sin, and the wicked perishing are all about them breaking it. The saved respect and seek to keep the law because their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ respected and kept the law, and taught others to do so as well. The lost reject and despise God's law, thus they are lost.

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. 8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. 9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether. 10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb. 11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.

Why do you refuse and reject the above scriptures? Is it not because you make the law out to be that which it was never intended, that you may reject its authority and excuse yourself from keeping it? The law of the Lord converts the soul, pointing out the way of righteousness, and condemning the sinner to salvation in Christ Jesus alone. You say you accept this salvation, but then you reject the authority of the very law which proceeded out of the mouth of God and brings you to salvation in Christ Jesus. So be it.

[beam]

Mar 2:23 And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn. 24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful? 25 And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him? 26 How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him? 27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: 28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

The Sabbath was made for man at creation. Do you not believe the testimony of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. The Sabbath is not just one day at the end of creation, it is and always has been the last day of the seven day week established at creation. Just as the commandment states.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Jesus Christ created the Sabbath, reestablished it for Israel, kept it while here as one of us, admonished others to keep it while here as one of us, and taught its proper observance while here as one of us. You are right when you say it is not about what we do, it is about what Jesus does and did. He kept the Sabbath and taught others to keep it along with the other commandments of God. He said that He did not come to change the law, and that those who would break the commandments and teach others so, would be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. Why do you want to be called the least in the kingdom of heaven?

Salvation has never been by keeping the law, but the fall, sin, and the wicked perishing are all about them breaking it. The saved respect and seek to keep the law because their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ respected and kept the law, and taught others to do so as well. The lost reject and despise God's law, thus they are lost.

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. 8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. 9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether. 10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb. 11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.

Why do you refuse and reject the above scriptures? Is it not because you make the law out to be that which it was never intended, that you may reject its authority and excuse yourself from keeping it? The law of the Lord converts the soul, pointing out the way of righteousness, and condemning the sinner to salvation in Christ Jesus alone. You say you accept this salvation, but then you reject the authority of the very law which proceeded out of the mouth of God and brings you to salvation in Christ Jesus. So be it.

I do not reject scripture Amo, but I do know that you do.  I am sure you hate for me to remind you of 2Cor3:7-11 and Eph 2 and further hate it more when I post those verses because it blasts your theory out of the water.   Let me remind you that the laws God gave to Israel could not save a single soul.  They were made especially for Israel.   The new covenant is all about salvation and only has two ritual requirements, baptism and communion.

[Amo]

I do not reject scripture Amo, but I do know that you do.  I am sure you hate for me to remind you of 2Cor3:7-11 and Eph 2 and further hate it more when I post those verses because it blasts your theory out of the water.   Let me remind you that the laws God gave to Israel could not save a single soul.  They were made especially for Israel.   The new covenant is all about salvation and only has two ritual requirements, baptism and communion.

Let me remind you, that I have actually addressed what the scriptures you bring forth again truly address and mean several times, while you never address what the scriptures I quote truly mean. You simply quote one scripture to supposedly negate another, according to your own twisted reasoning. Though your broken record tactics can be annoying, they also provide opportunity to address your twisted use of scripture when I'm feeling like doing so again. Your vain imaginings that the scriptures you mentioned blow my beliefs out of the water exist in your own head, certainly not mine or many others. Please do address the scriptures quoted by me and address what they really mean, rather than what I suggest they mean.

[Hobie]

It said that God blessed the seventh-day of the creation week.  What it does not say is that God blessed every proceeding seventh-day.  God took the day off, but Jesus said He and His Father work every day.  The Holy Spirit working inside each of us doesn't take a day off.  The Levite priests didn't take the day off and the soldiers marching around Jerico didn't take the day off.  When the Israelites didn't take the day off when they were escaping Egypt.

By the way.  Israelites were not saved by keeping the Sabbath.  They were saved the same way Abraham was saved and the same way we are saved.  When Ellen White claimed if we don't keep Sabbath we will lose our eternal inheritance she was telling a lie.  Sabbath-keeping has never been a salvational issue.  It is not what we do it is what Jesus did.

And Jesus did as it says in the Ten Commandments on the Sabbath, which He as the Creator made for man. He set the example for us, as He wrote the law on stone and now the law in the new covenant is written in the fleshy tables of the heart.  We see what worship involves

Revelation 14:7
Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Christ was the Creator who "made heaven and earth..." along with the gift of the Sabbath made for man. So we have a day for us to out of love, worship and give glory to the Creator, and He wrote the law on stone with His own finger and said to "remember the Sabbath" and now writes it in our hearts, and its part of His character, and that cannot be denied.

[beam]

Hi Hobie,
Paul describes the 10 commandments as "the ministry of death".   If it is the 10 that are what is written on our hearts then It must not be a sin to do all the things mentioned in Gal 3:16-21.

16 What I am saying is this: run your lives by the Spirit. Then you will not do what your old nature wants. 17 For the old nature wants what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit wants what is contrary to the old nature. These oppose each other, so that you find yourselves unable to carry out your good intentions. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, then you are not in subjection to the system that results from perverting the Torah into legalism.

19 And it is perfectly evident what the old nature does. It expresses itself in sexual immorality, impurity and indecency; 20 involvement with the occult and with drugs; in feuding, fighting, becoming jealous and getting angry; in selfish ambition, factionalism, intrigue 21 and envy; in drunkenness, orgies and things like these. I warn you now as I have warned you before: those who do such things will have no share in the Kingdom of God!

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 humility, self control. Nothing in the Torah stands against such things.

24 Moreover, those who belong to the Messiah Yeshua have put their old nature to death on the stake, along with its passions and desires. 25 Since it is through the Spirit that we have Life, let it also be through the Spirit that we order our lives day by day.

26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

Believing it is the 10 commandments that are written on our hearts is a very shallow belief.  What is really written on our hearts is the Law of Love.  The law of love covers every inch of morality.  What the Law of Love does not do is put us under the ritual laws of the old covenant and that includes the Sabbath that was given to Israel only and not to any other nation on Earth.

By the way, if I am wrong then why doesn't the Holy Spirit within us pricking our souls to rush out and join some Sabbath observing group?   Why does the SDA church spend untold millions on trying to persuade Christians to observe the Sabbath and even with all of their persuasion only a handful join their ranks?  Even then most of those who join soon leave.  Doesn't that tell you something?

[Hobie]

It said that God blessed the seventh-day of the creation week.  What it does not say is that God blessed every proceeding seventh-day.  God took the day off, but Jesus said He and His Father work every day.  The Holy Spirit working inside each of us doesn't take a day off.  The Levite priests didn't take the day off and the soldiers marching around Jerico didn't take the day off.  When the Israelites didn't take the day off when they were escaping Egypt.

By the way.  Israelites were not saved by keeping the Sabbath.  They were saved the same way Abraham was saved and the same way we are saved.  When Ellen White claimed if we don't keep Sabbath we will lose our eternal inheritance she was telling a lie.  Sabbath-keeping has never been a salvational issue.  It is not what we do it is what Jesus did.

Its right there, "and sanctified it".

[Cobalt1959]

People still don't know, as many think the Bible actually says to worship Sunday

Of course, you are basing your premise on a false foundation, that non-Saturday observing Christians view Sunday as the Sabbath.  You know this is false, but continue to perpetuate the lie anyway because your defense is based on that premise.   If Christians do not believe that Sunday is also the Sabbath, which they do not, your defense is rendered moot.

You are not keeping the Sabbath.  There is not one single tenet of the Mosaic Sabbath that SDA's actually keep except the day.  You throw every single other command in regards to the Sabbath in the trash can, except the day.  You swap out what day you go to church, and that's all you do.  If I asked you point-blank to explain to us exactly how you, personally keep the Sabbath, according to dictates laid out in the Old testament, you could not tell me how you do so, nor would you be willing to do so, because you do not actually keep the Sabbath in the way Mosaic Law says you must. 

No Seventh Day Adventists I've ever asked that question has ever answered it.

[Cobalt1959]

Its right there, "and sanctified it".

And yet, you cannot give one single scripture until Exodus that commands anyone to observe any kind of Sabbath.  Even then, only Mosaic Jews were ever commanded to keep the Sabbath.  And their salvation did not depend on it.  A Mosaic Jew's salvation depended on the same thing that a Christ-believing Christian's salvation depends on today:  Faith.

Your SDA salvation depends directly on a work.  And that is a work that you don't even keep the way the Bible tells you to keep it.

[Amo]

Of course, you are basing your premise on a false foundation, that non-Saturday observing Christians view Sunday as the Sabbath.  You know this is false, but continue to perpetuate the lie anyway because your defense is based on that premise.   If Christians do not believe that Sunday is also the Sabbath, which they do not, your defense is rendered moot.

You are not keeping the Sabbath.  There is not one single tenet of the Mosaic Sabbath that SDA's actually keep except the day.  You throw every single other command in regards to the Sabbath in the trash can, except the day.  You swap out what day you go to church, and that's all you do.  If I asked you point-blank to explain to us exactly how you, personally keep the Sabbath, according to dictates laid out in the Old testament, you could not tell me how you do so, nor would you be willing to do so, because you do not actually keep the Sabbath in the way Mosaic Law says you must. 

No Seventh Day Adventists I've ever asked that question has ever answered it.

We don't keep Mosaic laws given to literal Israel. We seek to keep God's law by grace through and in Jesus Christ. Many also choose to adhere to the dietary laws given to Israel by God through Moses for their own good health, and others go further by becoming vegetarian or vegan according to God's original diet for humanity. Jesus Christ is the Lord of the Sabbath. He testified that the Sabbath was made for man, kept it and taught its proper observance when here as one of us. We seek to follow His example and teachings.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

You are correct, SDA's do not keep a Mosaic Sabbath, they keep God's Sabbath.

Millions of Sunday keepers do keep Sunday as a sabbath. You not doing so, does not change this fact, but perhaps in your own mind. There are supposedly about a billion Catholics, who are taught to believe that Sunday replaces the seventh day sabbath, apart from many others as well. Go to, learn and understand this truth for yourself.

[Amo]

And yet, you cannot give one single scripture until Exodus that commands anyone to observe any kind of Sabbath.  Even then, only Mosaic Jews were ever commanded to keep the Sabbath.  And their salvation did not depend on it.  A Mosaic Jew's salvation depended on the same thing that a Christ-believing Christian's salvation depends on today:  Faith.

Your SDA salvation depends directly on a work.  And that is a work that you don't even keep the way the Bible tells you to keep it.

More trash, proved wrong or moot many times over already on these boards. Salvation has always been by faith, no one has said otherwise. People wanting to obey God, has never equalled people believing they are saved by their works. Please do tell us, which of the other nine commandments all can reject and break and still be saved. Are all those who wish to keep them, also depending upon a direct work for their salvation? If not why not? Are all now free to reject the authority of God and still be saved? Please do expound upon your position.

[RB]

Is Sunday sacredness in the Bible?

No more than Saturday is, and Saturday NO more than Sunday! EVERY DAY to an understanding child of God, is a day to worship and serve God, by trimming our lamps and making sure our light is shining in this perverse and crooked world. There is your answer, an answer that neither RCC/EOC, nor the SDA would accept.

[Amo]

The word of RB -

No more than Saturday is, and Saturday NO more than Sunday! EVERY DAY to an understanding child of God, is a day to worship and serve God, by trimming our lamps and making sure our light is shining in this perverse and crooked world. There is your answer, an answer that neither RCC/EOC, nor the SDA would accept.

The Word of God -

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

No man can change or undo the word of God, or the creative power of the same. God sanctified the seventh day, and none but God can undo this.

Exo 20:8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

God instructed the Jews who were to be His own, to remember His Sabbath. He didn't create the Sabbath again, it has been here since the beginning when He did create it. It does not matter if even the whole world decides to ignore the day, it is still holy because God's word cannot be changed by the words or actions of mere men. The day is holy regardless of what RB or anyone else says or does. Jesus Christ Himself exactly addressed all who would presume to change or alter the law of God.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

The Sabbath predates Israel by two thousand years. It was proclaimed as holy before sin entered the world for a holy people of God as a day of rest. God brought it back to remembrance and exalted it again as one of the commandments of God to be kept by His chosen people of this earth after the fall. Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ testified that the Sabbath was made for man by God, and He should know being the Lord God Himself through which this world was created. He is the Lord of the Sabbath because He created the Sabbath.

Isa 56:1  Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed. 2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil. 3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree. 4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant; 5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off. 6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; 7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people. 8 The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.

The above prophecy is a direct reference to the salvation and righteousness revealed in and by Christ Jesus our Lord. It addresses Jews and non Jews alike, speaking of those not of Israel who would be gathered to the Lord in Christ Jesus by taking hold of the covenant of God established by the blood of the LAMB OF GOD. A blessing is pronounced upon all of the same who will keep God's Sabbath and not pollute it. So says the word of God.

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

God's Sabbath shall be kept in the new heaven and new earth. So says the word of God.

Rev 12:17  And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12  Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:12  And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. 16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

So says the word of God. The word of RB and those of like mind, and the word of God have been set before you. Choose you this day whom you will believe and or serve.

[rstrats]

beam,
re:  "The question should be: Is there any command in the New Covenant for Sabbath-keeping..."
 

Hebrews 4:9  - "It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath."

[4WD]

beam,
re:  "The question should be: Is there any command in the New Covenant for Sabbath-keeping..."
 

Hebrews 4:9  - "It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath."

What translation did you take that from?

[Amo]

What translation did you take that from?

Good question.

[Cobalt1959]

beam,
re:  "The question should be: Is there any command in the New Covenant for Sabbath-keeping..."


Hebrews 4:9  - "It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath.

You need to provide the translation you are using because that is not what the text actually says.

[Cobalt1959]

We don't keep Mosaic laws given to literal Israel. We seek to keep God's law by grace through and in Jesus Christ. Many also choose to adhere to the dietary laws given to Israel by God through Moses for their own good health, and others go further by becoming vegetarian or vegan according to God's original diet for humanity. Jesus Christ is the Lord of the Sabbath. He testified that the Sabbath was made for man, kept it and taught its proper observance when here as one of us. We seek to follow His example and teachings.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

You are correct, SDA's do not keep a Mosaic Sabbath, they keep God's Sabbath.

Millions of Sunday keepers do keep Sunday as a sabbath. You not doing so, does not change this fact, but perhaps in your own mind. There are supposedly about a billion Catholics, who are taught to believe that Sunday replaces the seventh day sabbath, apart from many others as well. Go to, learn and understand this truth for yourself.

Of course you don't keep it.  All of us outside the SDA organization already know that.  That is the entire point.  You are not keeping the Sabbath in spite of the fact that you tell everyone that you are.  You can re-name it "God's Sabbath" instead of a Mosaic Sabbath, but that does not solve your problem and all that amounts to is a game of semantics. 

"I re-define what this thing is, so I don't have to follow any rules in regards to it that I either cannot, or don't feel like keeping." 

How convenient for you.  And if you don't think people recognize that tactic for exactly what it is, you are dead wrong.

Even then, as per the usual SDA dodge, when asked point-blank exactly how you are actually keeping the Sabbath, you can't explain it.  Call it a Mosaic Sabbath.  Call it God's Sabbath.  Call it Special Holy SDA Sabbath.  What you label it to avoid having to explain how you keep it changes nothing.  You still are not keeping anything until you can explain to anyone who asks exactly how you are keeping it.  You guys go around all day long telling people about all these things you supposedly "keep," but when asked to explain how you do so, it's like you are choking on a bone.

[Amo]

Of course you don't keep it.  All of us outside the SDA organization already know that.  That is the entire point.  You are not keeping the Sabbath in spite of the fact that you tell everyone that you are.  You can re-name it "God's Sabbath" instead of a Mosaic Sabbath, but that does not solve your problem and all that amounts to is a game of semantics. 

"I re-define what this thing is, so I don't have to follow any rules in regards to it that I either cannot, or don't feel like keeping." 

How convenient for you.  And if you don't think people recognize that tactic for exactly what it is, you are dead wrong.

Even then, as per the usual SDA dodge, when asked point-blank exactly how you are actually keeping the Sabbath, you can't explain it.  Call it a Mosaic Sabbath.  Call it God's Sabbath.  Call it Special Holy SDA Sabbath.  What you label it to avoid having to explain how you keep it changes nothing.  You still are not keeping anything until you can explain to anyone who asks exactly how you are keeping it.  You guys go around all day long telling people about all these things you supposedly "keep," but when asked to explain how you do so, it's like you are choking on a bone.

Ignorance and denial are as ignorance and denial do.


Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Exod 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

Exod 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my Sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

Deut 5:14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.

Lev 19:3 Ye shall fear every man his mother, and his father, and keep my sabbaths: I am the LORD your God.

Lev 19:30 Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

Lev 26:2 Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

Isa 56:4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant; 5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off. 6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; 7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Ezek 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them. 13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my Sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them. 14 But I wrought for my name's sake, that it should not be polluted before the heathen, in whose sight I brought them out. 15 Yet also I lifted up my hand unto them in the wilderness, that I would not bring them into the land which I had given them, flowing with milk and honey, which is the glory of all lands; 16 Because they despised my judgments, and walked not in my statutes, but polluted my sabbaths: for their heart went after their idols. 17 Nevertheless mine eye spared them from destroying them, neither did I make an end of them in the wilderness. 18 But I said unto their children in the wilderness, Walk ye not in the statutes of your fathers, neither observe their judgments, nor defile yourselves with their idols: 19 I am the LORD your God; walk in my statutes, and keep my judgments, and do them; 20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God. 21 Notwithstanding the children rebelled against me: they walked not in my statutes, neither kept my judgments to do them, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; they polluted my sabbaths: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them, to accomplish my anger against them in the wilderness. 22 Nevertheless I withdrew mine hand, and wrought for my name's sake, that it should not be polluted in the sight of the heathen, in whose sight I brought them forth. 23 I lifted up mine hand unto them also in the wilderness, that I would scatter them among the heathen, and disperse them through the countries; 24 Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols.

Ezek 22: 8 Thou hast despised mine holy things, and hast profaned my sabbaths.

Ezek 22: 26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.

Ezek 23:38 Moreover this they have done unto me: they have defiled my sanctuary in the same day, and have profaned my sabbaths.

Ezek 44:24 And in controversy they shall stand in judgment; and they shall judge it according to my judgments: and they shall keep my laws and my statutes in all mine assemblies; and they shall hallow my sabbaths.

Neh 9:13-14 13 Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments: 14 And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:

Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

I am not the one playing a game of semantics, you are. The term Mosaic Sabbath appears nowhere in scripture. The Lord calls the Sabbath His over and over again throughout scripture. Neh 9:14 above, even separates God's sabbath from the precepts, statutes, and laws, given to Israel by the hand of Moses. The Sabbath was established 2000 years before there ever was a Jew or Moses. God pronounced a blessing upon gentiles who would keep His Sabbath during the old covenant, and predicted the same for the gentiles who would be brought in during the new covenant. He says His Sabbath will be observed in the new heaven and new earth. This is all in the bible and the scriptures have been shared on these boards, which you choose to ignore, not me. Please do show us where the scriptures speak of Moses' Sabbath. Even if you could or can, would that negate all the scripture provided above where the Lord calls the Sabbath His?

[Cobalt1959]

Ignorance and denial are as ignorance and denial do.


Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Exod 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

Exod 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my Sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

Deut 5:14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.

Lev 19:3 Ye shall fear every man his mother, and his father, and keep my sabbaths: I am the LORD your God.

Lev 19:30 Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

Lev 26:2 Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

Isa 56:4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant; 5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off. 6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; 7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Ezek 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them. 13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my Sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them. 14 But I wrought for my name's sake, that it should not be polluted before the heathen, in whose sight I brought them out. 15 Yet also I lifted up my hand unto them in the wilderness, that I would not bring them into the land which I had given them, flowing with milk and honey, which is the glory of all lands; 16 Because they despised my judgments, and walked not in my statutes, but polluted my sabbaths: for their heart went after their idols. 17 Nevertheless mine eye spared them from destroying them, neither did I make an end of them in the wilderness. 18 But I said unto their children in the wilderness, Walk ye not in the statutes of your fathers, neither observe their judgments, nor defile yourselves with their idols: 19 I am the LORD your God; walk in my statutes, and keep my judgments, and do them; 20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God. 21 Notwithstanding the children rebelled against me: they walked not in my statutes, neither kept my judgments to do them, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; they polluted my sabbaths: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them, to accomplish my anger against them in the wilderness. 22 Nevertheless I withdrew mine hand, and wrought for my name's sake, that it should not be polluted in the sight of the heathen, in whose sight I brought them forth. 23 I lifted up mine hand unto them also in the wilderness, that I would scatter them among the heathen, and disperse them through the countries; 24 Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols.

Ezek 22: 8 Thou hast despised mine holy things, and hast profaned my sabbaths.

Ezek 22: 26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.

Ezek 23:38 Moreover this they have done unto me: they have defiled my sanctuary in the same day, and have profaned my sabbaths.

Ezek 44:24 And in controversy they shall stand in judgment; and they shall judge it according to my judgments: and they shall keep my laws and my statutes in all mine assemblies; and they shall hallow my sabbaths.

Neh 9:13-14 13 Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments: 14 And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:

Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

I am not the one playing a game of semantics, you are. The term Mosaic Sabbath appears nowhere in scripture. The Lord calls the Sabbath His over and over again throughout scripture. Neh 9:14 above, even separates God's sabbath from the precepts, statutes, and laws, given to Israel by the hand of Moses. The Sabbath was established 2000 years before there ever was a Jew or Moses. God pronounced a blessing upon gentiles who would keep His Sabbath during the old covenant, and predicted the same for the gentiles who would be brought in during the new covenant. He says His Sabbath will be observed in the new heaven and new earth. This is all in the bible and the scriptures have been shared on these boards, which you choose to ignore, not me. Please do show us where the scriptures speak of Moses' Sabbath. Even if you could or can, would that negate all the scripture provided above where the Lord calls the Sabbath His?

I absolutely love it when people themselves, while ardently pushing a false doctrine, illustrate it themselves and then keep on trying to perpetuate it, when they have already shown, themselves, why what they are teaching is false.

You can't use Exodus to prove your supposed "God's" Sabbath and why it is somehow different than the Mosaic Sabbath.  It is the Mosaic Sabbath because it was given to the Israelites, and the Israelites alone.  All your verses above are useless in illustrating this supposed "God's" Sabbath, that is supposed to be somehow different than the Mosaic Sabbath that even Jesus observed, because He was a Jew, born under the Law.  Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath.  He says so very plainly.  There are not two different Sabbaths, one for Jews, and one for SDA's.  You've invented yours because you can't keep the one the Bible tells you to keep, if you are going to chain yourself to the Law.  So you have to twist and turn, take scripture out of context or use verses as stand-alone proof texts while creating something brand new to fit your doctrine.

You can bluster and pontificate all you want.  It doesn't do you any good until you can tell everyone on this board exactly how you keep this Sabbath that you re-create according to your own terms, and keep telling everyone you keep.  Until you explain exactly how you keep this "Sabbath," you have absolutely no credibility on the subject.  You avoid that line of questioning like the plague.

Seventh Day Adventists are very adept at bait and switch, and continually moving the goal posts around the field so they can avoid answering difficult questions.  I've watched you and Hobie do it here for years.  Hobie just drops out of site for a while until the antagonists go away from the lack of activity.  You begin engaging in much chest-beating and non-sequitur paragraphs like the last on in your post above, and the one in your post to me before this one.

"Millions of Catholics!"  Blah, blah, blah.  Millions of Catholics do not understand or practice sound biblical doctrine any more that SDA's do.  And since I'm not a Catholic, referencing them in any way when it comes to proving or disproving any point of doctrine is useless, and doesn't apply.  You continually claim that Christians replace the Sabbath by worshiping on Sunday.   That is the lynch pin of your defense and without it, most of your objections to Sunday worship evaporate.  So you keep picking at it like a sore, even though you know what you say isn't true.  The majority of the Christian world DOES NOT believe they are replace the Sabbath somehow.  But you cling to that false premise, because without it, you are like a ship without a rudder.  And when the questions get too tough, or pointed, you just change the subject.  You'll never answer the question as to how you keep the Sabbath, because you can't.  Because you don't keep the Sabbath.  You go to church on Saturday instead of Sunday and that's all it amounts to.

[Amo]

I absolutely love it when people themselves, while ardently pushing a false doctrine, illustrate it themselves and then keep on trying to perpetuate it, when they have already shown, themselves, why what they are teaching is false.

I agree. Of course I believe you are the one peddling false doctrine. I noticed you provided no scripture concerning your Mosaic Sabbath. In fact you supplied no scriptures at all in your defense of your false doctrine. Here is some scripture for you -

Mat 15:3...Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. 5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; 6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. 7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Mar 7:6  He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. 7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. 10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death: 11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free. 12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother; 13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Do you not make the fourth commandment of none effect, while you observe your Sunday tradition? Do you really think Jesus came to make the commandments of none effect when He stated the above and the following?

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Why do you want to be called least in the kingdom of heaven? You directly contradict the testimony of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and do exactly that which He condemned among the Jews. Then completely twist everything around and accuse those who wish to keep the commandments of God as Jesus testified we should, of pushing false doctrine. Go to, teach and practice the breaking of God's fourth commandment. I will teach and pray for the power of God's Holy Spirit to keep God's commandments. The Lord Jesus Christ will judge between us.

"Millions of Catholics!"  Blah, blah, blah.  Millions of Catholics do not understand or practice sound biblical doctrine any more that SDA's do.  And since I'm not a Catholic, referencing them in any way when it comes to proving or disproving any point of doctrine is useless, and doesn't apply.  You continually claim that Christians replace the Sabbath by worshiping on Sunday.   That is the lynch pin of your defense and without it, most of your objections to Sunday worship evaporate.  So you keep picking at it like a sore, even though you know what you say isn't true.  The majority of the Christian world DOES NOT believe they are replace the Sabbath somehow.  But you cling to that false premise, because without it, you are like a ship without a rudder.  And when the questions get too tough, or pointed, you just change the subject.  You'll never answer the question as to how you keep the Sabbath, because you can't.  Because you don't keep the Sabbath.  You go to church on Saturday instead of Sunday and that's all it amounts to.

Now your are twisting everything out of context again in your peddling of false doctrine. You are the one who brought up replacing the Sabbath with Sunday, not me. You said -

Of course, you are basing your premise on a false foundation, that non-Saturday observing Christians view Sunday as the Sabbath.  You know this is false, but continue to perpetuate the lie anyway because your defense is based on that premise.   If Christians do not believe that Sunday is also the Sabbath, which they do not, your defense is rendered moot.

I simply showed you that there are many millions if not over a billion "Christians" that do believe what you denied they believe above. I am well aware that many do not replace one with the other but simply choose to disregard the fourth commandment. I have been debating them for many years right here on these boards, such as yourself. Your entire point above is moot, and built upon a faulty premise of your own creation and twisted support.

You are correct in stating that Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath. He established it at creation, reminded His people to keep it when delivering them from Egyptian slavery and established its observance through the fourth commandment, taught its proper observance when here on earth as one of us, predicted its observance among His followers in the future as well when here as one of us(Mt 24:20), and will most certainly be at the center of its observance in the new heaven and new earth.

Rev 22:12  And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. 16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Please do make use of the scriptures in your next response. If this is just about your words or mine, then it is naught.

[rstrats]

4WD,
re:  "What translation did you take that from?"


"The Holy Bible from the Ancient Eastern Text."

[current occupant2]

Has anyone written in this thread to claim 'Sunday sacredness'?

[Amo]

Has anyone written in this thread to claim 'Sunday sacredness'?

No. Some one claimed that people who keep Sunday do not believe that it replaces the seventh day Sabbath, that the Sabbath commandment was of Mosaic origin, and that no one can keep it. These are what is being disputed.

[Cobalt1959]

No. Some one claimed that people who keep Sunday do not believe that it replaces the seventh day Sabbath, that the Sabbath commandment was of Mosaic origin, and that no one can keep it. These are what is being disputed.

And so far, you have completely failed to tell anyone here how you actually "keep" the Sabbath.  I've used plenty of scripture to rebut your assertions in times past, but you can't deal with them, so you just ignore them.  Why would I waste my time now?

The ball is still in your court.  You, and Hobie, and other ardent SDA's continually tell other people they are not keeping the Sabbath.  But you won't tell anyone, in a detailed fashion, how they are supposed to do that.  Until you do so, you are wasting your breath and you have no credibility.

Explain to everyone here how, exactly, you keep the Sabbath.

[current occupant2]

No. Some one claimed that people who keep Sunday do not believe that it replaces the seventh day Sabbath, that the Sabbath commandment was of Mosaic origin, and that no one can keep it. These are what is being disputed.

So you would support our opposition ton the title of this thread and align your support with our claim that the title of the thread is a straw man.

[current occupant2]

And so far, you have completely failed to tell anyone here how you actually "keep" the Sabbath.  I've used plenty of scripture to rebut your assertions in times past, but you can't deal with them, so you just ignore them.  Why would I waste my time now?

The ball is still in your court.  You, and Hobie, and other ardent SDA's continually tell other people they are not keeping the Sabbath.  But you won't tell anyone, in a detailed fashion, how they are supposed to do that.  Until you do so, you are wasting your breath and you have no credibility.

Explain to everyone here how, exactly, you keep the Sabbath.

The SDA church manual provides that those breaking the sabbath must be disciplined - but neither Hobie/Richard nor amo will provide the criteria by which sabbath breaking is determined.

The mandate for disciplining sabbath breakers is denomination wide as stated in the denomination wide application of the church manual (page 62) so the criteria for determination of sabbath breaking activities should be well published - denomination wide. 

[Texas Conservative]

I love to go to Dairy Queen and get a Hot Fudge Saturdae