Creation scientists

[4WD]

https://answersingenesis.org/the-flood/global/hugh-ross-flood-response-2/

The very first sentences from Snellings article in answeresingenesis concerning the flood:

In a Facebook post on January 5, 2026, Dr. Hugh Ross made false claims about Noah's Flood only being local.1 Yet God's Word very clearly teaches that Noah's Flood was a global cataclysm:

Just like the seas God created on creation day three, the land He created was in one place as a supercontinent (Genesis 1:9–10). We would expect that 1,650 years after Adam was created, his descendants would have migrated across the supercontinent. So to destroy all pre-Flood humanity required totally inundating that supercontinent.

It is a real pity that Snelling, like you, does not know the difference between God saying that He "created" something and God saying He "made" something or God saying "let there be" something.

Genesis 1:9-10 does not say God created the seas on day three. 

Gen 1:9  And God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear." And it was so.

That is not a statement of creation of the seas.

Unfortunately, it only gets worse after that - a lot worse.

[Amo]

You didn't read what I wrote.  I didn't call what you believe disgusting.  It was you in your calling anyone who disagrees with you as being of dim faith.

You do not believe what Holy Scripture simply states. You may deny that deep time evolutionary projections of many billions of years from a supposed big bang to now contradicts what scripture simply states, but this cannot change what scripture does in fact simply state. You therefore do not have faith in what Holy Scripture simply states, which God Himself conclusively back up with His fourth commandment, as well as other scriptural testimony. Yes, I consider this to be dim faith.

Again, you do not read very well. As I have said here over and over again, I accept the whole of scripture to be absolute truth.

No, you do not. You accept some form of symbolism or allegory regarding the creation account, which must be made by man, which can turn what scripture simply states into billions of years of evolution. Though you have not or perhaps cannot actually give an explanation of the allegory or symbolism which you profess is being used.

I do not accept the whole of your interpretation of scripture to be truth.I do not reject anything the scriptures have to say.

What I have to say is the same as always. I believe what the Holy Scriptures simply and conclusively state, and back up in several places, with no need of allegorical or symbolic interpretation. You do not.

 

I do reject some of what you have to say.I take that passage of scripture to mean precisely what it says.

No you do not. Unless you have changed your views. The Holy Scriptures declare that the heavens and earth and all life on it, were created in six days. The fourth commandment of God fully backs this scenario up. Nor does your theory of evolution fit many other details of the creation account, concerning the order in which things came about, or when death entered the scene to mention just a few problems connected with this topic.

 

I believe that the worlds were framed by the word of God.  I understand that God created ex nihilo which is what verse 3 means. It is too bad that you do not understand it.  You think you do but you don't.  You do not seem to understand the difference between what God created ex nihilo and what God made or what God formed or what it means when God said, "Let there be.....". And that is such a pity.

The exact opposite is the truth. I make no claim to understand how God brought anything about. I do not understand how God's word alone, has the power to bring the very thing He declares about. Evolutionists are the ones trying to explain exactly how everything came about, not creationists. In doing so, they require deep time scenarios according to the limits of their own understanding, as though God Himself were constrained by such limits as well. That is to bring God down to mans own level, instead of raising their ideas up to God's professed level, by faith in His conclusively stated and extensively backed up word.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Psa 33:4 For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth. 5 He loveth righteousness and judgment: the earth is full of the goodness of the LORD. 6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. 7 He gathereth the waters of the sea together as an heap: he layeth up the depth in storehouses. 8 Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him. 9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

You do not believe what the above scriptures simply and plainly state. If you do, please do explain how so, according to evolutionary faith. Thank you.

[4WD]

You do not believe what Holy Scripture simply states. You may deny that deep time evolutionary projections of many billions of years from a supposed big bang to now contradicts what scripture simply states, but this cannot change what scripture does in fact simply state. You therefore do not have faith in what Holy Scripture simply states, which God Himself conclusively back up with His fourth commandment, as well as other scriptural testimony. Yes, I consider this to be dim faith.

No, you do not. You accept some form of symbolism or allegory regarding the creation account, which must be made by man, which can turn what scripture simply states into billions of years of evolution. Though you have not or perhaps cannot actually give an explanation of the allegory or symbolism which you profess is being used.

What I have to say is the same as always. I believe what the Holy Scriptures simply and conclusively state, and back up in several places, with no need of allegorical or symbolic interpretation. You do not.

 
No you do not. Unless you have changed your views. The Holy Scriptures declare that the heavens and earth and all life on it, were created in six days. The fourth commandment of God fully backs this scenario up. Nor does your theory of evolution fit many other details of the creation account, concerning the order in which things came about, or when death entered the scene to mention just a few problems connected with this topic.

 
The exact opposite is the truth. I make no claim to understand how God brought anything about. I do not understand how God's word alone, has the power to bring the very thing He declares about. Evolutionists are the ones trying to explain exactly how everything came about, not creationists. In doing so, they require deep time scenarios according to the limits of their own understanding, as though God Himself were constrained by such limits as well. That is to bring God down to mans own level, instead of raising their ideas up to God's professed level, by faith in His conclusively stated and extensively backed up word.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Psa 33:4 For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth. 5 He loveth righteousness and judgment: the earth is full of the goodness of the LORD. 6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. 7 He gathereth the waters of the sea together as an heap: he layeth up the depth in storehouses. 8 Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him. 9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

You do not believe what the above scriptures simply and plainly state. If you do, please do explain how so, according to evolutionary faith. Thank you.

You have yet to understand that what the Scriptures "plainly state" and what you interpret them to mean are not necessarily the same thing.

And that, Amo, is arrogant and narcissistic.

[Amo]

You have yet to understand that what the Scriptures "plainly state" and what you interpret them to mean are not necessarily the same thing.

And that, Amo, is arrogant and narcissistic.

You can pretend that you do not know what I mean, but you do know what I mean. I believe exactly what Holy Scripture simply and plainly states regarding creation. I do not need to extrapolate, or theorize about what allegorical or symbolic meaning the days of creation represent in Genesis or the fourth commandment. They simply state exactly what I believe.

You cannot do this, while maintaining big bang to present realities via deep time evolutionary scenarios. Nor do you attempt, or perhaps are unable to give any tenable explanation of what the creation days symbolize in relation to time, or explain what the allegory of the creation account actually represents. I also believe certain parts of scripture are symbolic, as they seem to highly suggest, but would not waste time believing such if I had no idea or explanation at all of what they might symbolize.

If there is no explanation, then what is their purpose? How can they be part of what the following scriptures declare?

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

[4WD]

If there is no explanation, then what is their purpose? How can they be part of what the following scriptures declare?

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

2 Timothy 3:16 has nothing whatsoever to do with teaching, reproof, correction or training in the field of science. It is about "the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus" (vs 15).

That you try to use such passages to claim that God's word supports your lack of understanding of most aspects of science is not good.

You cannot do this, while maintaining big bang to present realities via deep time evolutionary scenarios. Nor do you attempt, or perhaps are unable to give any tenable explanation of what the creation days symbolize in relation to time, or explain what the allegory of the creation account actually represents. I also believe certain parts of scripture are symbolic, as they seem to highly suggest, but would not waste time believing such if I had no idea or explanation at all of what they might symbolize.

I have given you, on several occasions, an explanation of what the creation days symbolize in relation to time and what the allegory of the creation account actually represents.  And I have shown you how with such an explanation the view presented by today's description of the cosmological history of the universe lines up very nearly one for one with the Genesis account of creation.

But obviously you did not give any heed of that at all. I seriously doubt that you bothered to even read it, rejecting it out of hand.  Or if you even bothered to read it, you perhaps could not make heads or tails of it because it is tied in with the relativistic effect of the expansion of the universe on time.

[Amo]

2 Timothy 3:16 has nothing whatsoever to do with teaching, reproof, correction or training in the field of science. It is about "the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus" (vs 15).

That you try to use such passages to claim that God's word supports your lack of understanding of most aspects of science is not good.

You certainly have a talent for twisting things around in your mind. I do not quote 2Ti 3:16 & 17 to prove or disprove the speculations of humanity about science at all. To the contrary, I hold them to be far above the scientific speculations of humanity, along with the rest of Holy Scripture. I'm not the one among us who is trying to make humanities scientific speculations work together with Holy Scripture, I endeavor to subject the former to the latter. You are the one trying to make both fit together, not me. When I quote 2Ti 3:16 & 17, it is to establish biblical authority over and above the ever changing and self proclaimed authority of humanities speculative sciences so called, regarding that which they have not and cannot observe. You simply do not believe the testimony of 2Ti 3:16 & 17. As you declare Holy Scripture does not speak with any kind of established clarity concerning the creation account, but is basically some obscure reference, concerning the timing and development of what we now observe. Which you then consider the theory of evolution to explain I assume, according to the course of our debates for many years now. 

I have given you, on several occasions, an explanation of what the creation days symbolize in relation to time and what the allegory of the creation account actually represents.  And I have shown you how with such an explanation the view presented by today's description of the cosmological history of the universe lines up very nearly one for one with the Genesis account of creation.

But obviously you did not give any heed of that at all. I seriously doubt that you bothered to even read it, rejecting it out of hand.  Or if you even bothered to read it, you perhaps could not make heads or tails of it because it is tied in with the relativistic effect of the expansion of the universe on time.

Kindly refer me to these posts, as I do not recollect such. Apart from perhaps some reference to very lengthy articles or books, of which I requested a summary or interaction with your own words, which I do not ever recall you addressing. Please do correct me off I am wrong on this, and refer me to the posts you are referring to. Thank you.

[Amo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-IGbpM827c

Interesting one about race by Answers in Genesis Canada.

[4WD]

You certainly have a talent for twisting things around in your mind. I do not quote 2Ti 3:16 & 17 to prove or disprove the speculations of humanity about science at all.

You just did that. You did it to prove that your interpretation of the Genesis account of creation is the correct interpretation.

To the contrary, I hold them to be far above the scientific speculations of humanity, along with the rest of Holy Scripture. I'm not the one among us who is trying to make humanities scientific speculations work together with Holy Scripture, I endeavor to subject the former to the latter. You are the one trying to make both fit together, not me. When I quote 2Ti 3:16 & 17, it is to establish biblical authority over and above the ever changing and self proclaimed authority of humanities speculative sciences so called, regarding that which they have not and cannot observe.

You doth speaketh with forked tongue.

You said, "I do not quote 2Ti 3:16 & 17 to prove or disprove the speculations of humanity about science at all".

Then you said, "To the contrary, I hold them to be far above the scientific speculations of humanity, along with the rest of Holy Scripture."

What do you mean by "holding far above the scientific speculations of humanity" if not to disprove the speculations of humanity about science in this discussion?

You simply do not believe the testimony of 2Ti 3:16 & 17. As you declare Holy Scripture does not speak with any kind of established clarity concerning the creation account, but is basically some obscure reference, concerning the timing and development of what we now observe. Which you then consider the theory of evolution to explain I assume, according to the course of our debates for many years now.

I believe the scriptures speak with a great deal of established clarity concerning the creation account. It is the YEC interpretation that muddles everything given what has become perfectly clear within the last 100 or so years.

Please give me your "established clarity" concerning Genesis 1:3 and Genesis 1:14-18.

Kindly refer me to these posts, as I do not recollect such. Apart from perhaps some reference to very lengthy articles or books, of which I requested a summary or interaction with your own words, which I do not ever recall you addressing. Please do correct me off I am wrong on this, and refer me to the posts you are referring to. Thank you.

Begin by looking up Gerald Schroeder and the age of the universe. It is a good place for the scientifically unenlightened to see how six days and 14 billion years can both be correct.

Then you might go to the following website to see how the James Webb Space Telescope can look back and see 13.5 billion years ago.

https://www.astronomy.com/science/could-a-telescope-ever-see-the-beginning-of-time-an-astronomer-explains/

[The Barbarian]

You have yet to understand that what the Scriptures "plainly state" and what you interpret them to mean are not necessarily the same thing.

It's always a temptation to interpret scripture in a way that agrees with our own desires.    I suppose all Christians experience that temptation.

Begin by looking up Gerald Schroeder and the age of the universe. It is a good place for the scientifically unenlightened to see how six days and 14 billion years can both be correct.

Have you seen Gerald Aardsma's idea of long ages being a sort of "backstory" for a creation that he assumes really began about 6,000 years ago?   It's an ingenious and sincere attempt to reconcile the evidence with YE assumptions.
https://www.biblicalchronologist.org/
 

[The Barbarian]

Interesting one about race by Answers in Genesis Canada.

Ken Ham of "Answers in Genesis" recently stated that he is willing to divide the Church in his campaign for YEC.  By doing so, he is defying God's word.

Titus 3:9-11 But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.

[4WD]

Hail to The Barbarian.  Welcome.  I haven't seen anything from you in a very long time.

[4WD]

Ken Ham of "Answers in Genesis" recently stated that he is willing to divide the Church in his campaign for YEC.  By doing so, he is defying God's word.

Titus 3:9-11 But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.

HEAR! HEAR!

[Amo]

You just did that. You did it to prove that your interpretation of the Genesis account of creation is the correct interpretation.

You doth speaketh with forked tongue.

You said, "I do not quote 2Ti 3:16 & 17 to prove or disprove the speculations of humanity about science at all".

Then you said, "To the contrary, I hold them to be far above the scientific speculations of humanity, along with the rest of Holy Scripture."

What do you mean by "holding far above the scientific speculations of humanity" if not to disprove the speculations of humanity about science in this discussion?
I believe the scriptures speak with a great deal of established clarity concerning the creation account. It is the YEC interpretation that muddles everything given what has become perfectly clear within the last 100 or so years.

Please give me your "established clarity" concerning Genesis 1:3 and Genesis 1:14-18.

Begin by looking up Gerald Schroeder and the age of the universe. It is a good place for the scientifically unenlightened to see how six days and 14 billion years can both be correct.

Then you might go to the following website to see how the James Webb Space Telescope can look back and see 13.5 billion years ago.

https://www.astronomy.com/science/could-a-telescope-ever-see-the-beginning-of-time-an-astronomer-explains/

I know, you of course know better what I said or meant by what I said, than I do. Just like you also know what God's word or the holy prophets meant by what they said, rather than what we all can see they simply said and or stated. Not to mention God himself also of course, who verbally spoke the fourth commandment to an entire nation, and wrote that same commandment in stone with His own finger in table of stones twice. He didn't mean what He said about six days, thereby commanding His people to worship Him on the seventh day in commemoration of such an act, He really meant 14 billion years as you know and understand for all the rest of us I suppose. He just had to weight for the evolutionists to evolve enough to rightly explain it all to the rest of us. Now happily, all who will submit to your all be it ever changing or evolving theory and or time estimations, can finally get it right.

How can scripture which states that creation took six days, but really meant an ever growing number of billions of years as evolutionists change their minds along the way, ever equal =

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Neither I nor any other, are subject to your constant changing projections of time and events as you have figured out in the supposed great wisdom of fallen humanities "scientifically" so called speculations. There is a great deal of science that is not just speculation, which we can observe, test, retest, and prove. Deep time evolutionary theory simply is not of that category.

Yes, I do take the testimony of Holy Scripture to be far above the best speculations of fallen humanity.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Tell us please if you will, what exactly does the fourth commandment which will not pass away before heaven and earth pass, really mean in light of your billions of years creation account understanding? What is the purpose of this most important sabbath which God repeatedly punished Israel for not observing, if the world was not created in six days?

[The Barbarian]

Hail to The Barbarian.  Welcome.  I haven't seen anything from you in a very long time.

Thank you, sir!   Good to be back and see you all.   

[The Barbarian]

You do not believe what Holy Scripture simply states.

There is wide disagreement among Christians as to the interpretation of these verses.   We should all be humble enough to recognize this fact, which tells us that the verses are not as clear as some would like them to be.   

None of us are God, and none of us should presume to speak for Him as to the meaning of these verses.

[Amo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z2a0B3CEYc

Good video about objective scientific observation by a Geologist.

[Amo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vah7XXr2Ms

Biologist rejects evolution and certain social and or political ideologies akin to it.

[Amo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sofImhL9ffA

More on observations regarding dinosaur soft tissues.

[Amo]

Ken Ham of "Answers in Genesis" recently stated that he is willing to divide the Church in his campaign for YEC.  By doing so, he is defying God's word.

Titus 3:9-11 But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.

Tit 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. 10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; 11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

Yes it is true that in daily conversations bible believers should not continue arguing endlessly with heretic evolutionists who deny the creation account and fourth commandment of God. Preaching and teaching endlessly changing theories regarding deep time evolutionary processes which Holy Scripture never even begins to teach or suggest anywhere at all. Which theories also create serious contradictions regarding scriptural testimony itself addressing the gospel of Jesus Christ, sin, how and where it all began, and the solution to the sin problem. All of which needs to be completely redefined, if deep time evolution is the real mechanism and timing of our existence.

Nevertheless, as this topic is maintained and was started in order to defend Creation Scientists against the false claim that there can be no such thing, it is necessary to continue to defend the truth of the matter. Which is plainly and simply that the Holy Scriptures can actually be trusted to mean just exactly what they simply state and backup about creation all throughout their testimonies. Also, that scientifically examining the evidence all around us as the result of the supernatural event of creation, is of course correct since creation was in fact a supernatural event. Therefore it is deep time evolutionary theories that are actually outside of the reality which the Holy Scriptures dictate, when they insist scientific examination and observation must remain only within that which we naturally observe. God is supernatural, any and all of those who would or will refuse to allow such as the basis of so called "scientific" observations, are rejecting God. Who has testified that He supernaturally created heaven and earth is six days. The Holy Scriptures are filled with one supernatural event after another from beginning to end, starting with Creation itself.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

How say heretic Christian evolutionists, that everything must be "scientifically" studied, observed, and determined as though there is no God who supernaturally created all that is? When Holy scripture declares that all things came into being, are sustained, and consist by Him. Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, Amen.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying....
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Exo 31:12 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you. 14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. 15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. 16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. 17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Who is being unscriptural? The one who accepts the above testimony and scientifically observes and theorizes accordingly, or the one who denies the above testimony of God Himself and does so as though this testimony confirming the creation account of Genesis as plainly stated, does not exist?

[Amo]

There is wide disagreement among Christians as to the interpretation of these verses.  We should all be humble enough to recognize this fact, which tells us that the verses are not as clear as some would like them to be. 

None of us are God, and none of us should presume to speak for Him as to the meaning of these verses.

If bible believers were to be humble enough to submit the word of God to every non believer who questions all the aspects which so many do, then we would have no surety regarding scripture at all. Of course I and many other bible believers, believe that you should be humble enough to take God's word for what it simply states, and backs up all throughout Holy Scripture. Humility before God and His word are first and foremost among true believers, certainly before the unending theories and contradictions fallen humanity makes regarding the word of God.

Jas 4:1 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? 2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. 3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts. 4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. 5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? 6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. 7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. 9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. 10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up. 11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. 12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

[The Barbarian]

There is wide disagreement among Christians as to the interpretation of these verses.  We should all be humble enough to recognize this fact, which tells us that the verses are not as clear as some would like them to be. 

Of course I and many other bible believers, believe that you should be humble enough to take God's word for what it simply states, and backs up all throughout Holy Scripture.

 None of us are God, and none of us should presume to speak for Him as to the meaning of these verses.

[Amo]

There is wide disagreement among Christians as to the interpretation of these verses.  We should all be humble enough to recognize this fact, which tells us that the verses are not as clear as some would like them to be. 

 None of us are God, and none of us should presume to speak for Him as to the meaning of these verses.

Right, we've been down this road before. If all scripture is dependent upon our independent interpretations of what they mean, with none of us being capable of speaking for God, then all scripture is completely open to private interpretation. Resulting in no objective truth. To the contrary of course, we should take Holy scripture to mean just exactly what it plainly and simply states, unless the scripture itself suggests otherwise, and or plainly states that it is not intended to be taken as such.

If God has not clearly revealed and preserved His word, then He is unjust if He intends to hold any of us accountable to any of it. Is He not? Nor is the following statement of Holy Scripture and or several others true.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

[Amo]

Barbarian, have you just decided to come back and visit these boards, or were you banned from the other boards as I was? Or perhaps you thought these boards were gone, as I did since they were for quite a while. Just wondering.

[The Barbarian]

Barbarian, have you just decided to come back and visit these boards, or were you banned from the other boards as I was?

What other boards?
 

[Amo]

What other boards?

I don't recall, I'll have to try and find it again. There was a Christian evolutionist on those boards who used the name Barbarian as well. I presumed it was you, perhaps not.

[Amo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdZsFPQOJvk

Another good one by Answers In Genesis Canada, about the energy produced within all life.

[The Barbarian]

Of course I and many other bible believers, believe that you should be humble enough to take God's word for what it simply states, and backs up all throughout Holy Scripture.

Most Bible believers would say we should all be humble enough to realize that when there are differing views on what the Bible states, that we should not assume our views are God's word.

[4WD]

Most Bible believers would say we should all be humble enough to realize that when there are differing views on what the Bible states, that we should not assume our views are God's word.

I don't think there are all that many differing views on what the Bible states; instead, there are many differing views on what is meant by what the Bible states.

I think there is little doubt that God used the Hebrew word "yom" in Genesis 1.  The different views are in what God meant when He used that word.

Such different views are seldom about what God said; rather, they are almost always about what God meant by what God said.

[The Barbarian]

I don't think there are all that many differing views on what the Bible states; instead, there are many differing views on what is meant by what the Bible states.

I think there is little doubt that God used the Hebrew word "yom" in Genesis 1.  The different views are in what God meant when He used that word.

yom: day, days, today

Original Word: יוֹם
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: yowm
Pronunciation: yohm
Phonetic Spelling: (yome)
KJV: age, + always, + chronicals, continually(-ance), daily, ((birth-), each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), + elder, X end, + evening, + (for) ever(-lasting, -more), X full, life, as (so) long as ( live), (even) now, + old, + outlived, + perpetually, presently, + remaineth, X required, season, X since, space, then, (process of) time, + as at other times, + in trouble, weather, (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), X whole (+ age), (full) year(-ly), + younger
NASB: day, days, today, time, daily, years, life
Word Origin: [from an unused root meaning to be hot]
 https://biblehub.com/hebrew/3117.htm

[garee]

Avoid the Strife — Not the Search

It is written to avoid foolish controversies—not to avoid searching out the end of a matter. The warning is not against understanding. It is against strife.
There is a difference between seeking truth and multiplying arguments that produce division.

The things seen and the things unseen must be handled rightly. The seen are temporal—measured, observed, passing. The unseen are eternal—
revealed, understood by faith, enduring.

2 Corinthians 4:18While we look not at the things which are seen,
but at the things which are not seen:
for the things which are seen are temporal;

Understanding

This is the parable tool. The seen testifies. The unseen fulfills.
If we stay only with the seen, we miss the eternal.If we ignore the seen, we lose the witness.

2 Timothy 2:15Rightly dividing the word of truth.

Understanding

Not mixing without order. Not separating without purpose. But placing each thing where God intended it.

Empirical observation deals with what is seen. It measures, it tests, it records. But it cannot reach the eternal.

The eternal invisible seed—Christ— is not known by the things seen alone.

Hebrews 4:1–2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them,
not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Understanding
The hearing alone is not enough. The witness must be joined with faith.
Without that, the message remains outside—unreceived, unfruitful.

From the beginning God spoke: Let there be—and it was.
The substance came forth by His word. The shadow followed after.

The shadow does not produce the substance. It testifies that the substance is present.

[The Barbarian]

2 Corinthians 4:18While we look not at the things which are seen,
but at the things which are not seen:
for the things which are seen are temporal;

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him, from the creation of the world, are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made; his eternal power also, and divinity: so that they are inexcusable.

[Amo]

Most Bible believers would say we should all be humble enough to realize that when there are differing views on what the Bible states, that we should not assume our views are God's word.

So how does that work, when you believe what Holy Scripture simply and exactly states. What, we shouldn't think such is the word of God? Then of course there is no actual word of God, but only whatever, whoever, wants to make of it. Therefore also of course, no objective truth.

[The Barbarian]

So how does that work, when you believe what Holy Scripture simply and exactly states. What, we shouldn't think such is the word of God?

If it was clear and exact, then Christians would be agreed on what it says.  However, there is wide disagreement on many parts of scripture.  There is wide agreement on God's message.  One summary of this is the Nicene Creed.  Even that is not universally accepted; our Eastern Orthodox brothers and sisters do not like the way the Holy Spirit is presented.

We should remain humble enough to recognize these facts.

 

[Amo]

If it was clear and exact, then Christians would be agreed on what it says.  However, there is wide disagreement on many parts of scripture.  There is wide agreement on God's message.  One summary of this is the Nicene Creed.  Even that is not universally accepted; our Eastern Orthodox brothers and sisters do not like the way the Holy Spirit is presented.

We should remain humble enough to recognize these facts.

Please do provide examples of any of them denying what the Holy Scriptures simply state about the Holy Spirit of God, or God's message. Their disagreements are more about conjectures concerning that which the Holy Scripture do not simply state, and frankly do not perhaps ever really address at all. Concerning certain mysteries which Holy Scripture does not fully address and therefore explain either. Not scriptures simply stated, and backed up as simply stated in many other scriptural testimonies as well. Such as the days of the creation account.