What are the words of the ‘first covenant’?

[current occupant2]

Please identify the exact words of the 'first covenant' mentioned in these verses.

>>>For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Hebrews 8:7

>>>In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Hebrews 8:13

>>>Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
Hebrews 9:1

>>>Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
Hebrews 9:18-21

>>>Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Hebrews 10:9

Exodus 24:1-8 is the passage referred to by Hebrews 9:18-21. 

In Exodus 24:1-8 the words of the covenant are identified as 'all the words of the Lord' and 'all that the Lord has spoken'. 

Based on those two descriptors, the words of the Covenant would be all the commands that we have recorded for us in Exodus chapters 20, 21, 22 and 23. 

This agrees exactly with Exodus 34:27 and  28. 

Look it up and contemplate that for awhile.   

There is only ONE 'first covenant'. 

?

[beam]

No one will step up to the plate.  I guess they are afraid they will strike out.  Not everything God said or wrote were necessarily laws, or statues, some were words of praise, warnings and promises.  The fact is that most of the words of the covenant were in the form of laws and statues.


I cannot pinpoint any passages that give me a direct answer to your question, sorry.

[GB]

Please identify the exact words of the 'first covenant' mentioned in these verses.

>>>For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Hebrews 8:7

>>>In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Hebrews 8:13

>>>Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
Hebrews 9:1

>>>Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
Hebrews 9:18-21

>>>Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Hebrews 10:9

Exodus 24:1-8 is the passage referred to by Hebrews 9:18-21. 

In Exodus 24:1-8 the words of the covenant are identified as 'all the words of the Lord' and 'all that the Lord has spoken'. 

Based on those two descriptors, the words of the Covenant would be all the commands that we have recorded for us in Exodus chapters 20, 21, 22 and 23. 

This agrees exactly with Exodus 34:27 and  28. 

Look it up and contemplate that for awhile.   

There is only ONE 'first covenant'. 

?

It seems Hebrews 7-10 is speaking to the Levitical Priesthood as the "covenant" that became obsolete.

Heb. 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.

3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;

4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;

5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.

6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.

7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:

This is speaking about the Priesthood, not the Commandments, Statutes, or Laws of God He gave His People.


Hebrews 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,

By this Law the High Priest had to be a Levite. Jesus was from the tribe of Judah. Therefore by necessity the Law had to change to allow someone other than a Levite to become a High Priest. No other change is mentioned.

There is no mention of the Ten Commandments, or the 2 greatest Commandments in the Law of God, or His Feasts, or any other Law, becoming obsolete. The "first Covenant" that the Hebrews Author was speaking to was the Levitical Priesthood.

Heb. 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.

4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:


Heb. 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

This is the Covenant that became obsolete according to Hebrews.

Heb. 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, (Levite Priests who led His people astray) he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

No more Levite Priest to administer God's Laws.

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

No more Levite Priests to perform sacrificial "works of the Law" for the atonement of sins.

Given these and many other scriptures, I believe the mainstream teaching that the "first covenant" Spoken of by the Hebrews Author was the entire Law God Gave to Abrahams children through Moses is a deception. And that God's Laws didn't become obsolete at all, just the Priesthood that was  ADDED "till the Seed should come".

[4WD]

Please identify the exact words of the 'first covenant' mentioned in these verses.

Here is as good an explanation of the Old Covenant that I have come across  --

https://www.gotquestions.org/old-covenant.html

[GB]

Here is as good an explanation of the Old Covenant that I have come across  --

https://www.gotquestions.org/old-covenant.html

Yes, there are "many" other voices out there that teach differing doctrines and traditions regarding their opinion of the New Covenant. You have sorted through these other voices and landed on one which meets with your personal religion the best.

But since we have been warned over and over about the "other voices" out there to deceive us, I would think we should listen to the Creator of the Covenant Himself for it's definition to make sure we are not led astray by "other" religious voices like so many before us.

Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;

So here it is. This is not some random preacher on the internet, some religious franchise marketing to add members and increase their bottom line. This is the Christ, the creator of all things, telling His People what HIS New Covenant it. We all have the choice to listen and believe Him, or another voice.

After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

So there is the first part. He will write HIS LAWS (Instructions) on their heart. This is not in any way annulling His Laws, or changing them, or nailing them to His Cross as "many" preach. In the New Covenant of the Christ, the one HE Creates for His People, there is no talk of a changed Law at all, rather, a process that will ensure His People are not led astray by other religious voices, like Eve and the Jews.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:

And here is another part of the Covenant the Christ, in HIS own Words, defines. No more will we need to rely on or depend on Levite Priests, according to the Law, or any "other" religious voices to know the Christ. These other voices have led God's People astray for centuries, beginning with Eve. No, after those days we will all have direct access to HIS Words. We will all know Him. I find this Prophesy especially thrilling. Could those people of Jeremiah's time even imagine a time when God's Word was available to every man on the planet? And yet, here we are. While it is true "MANY" still choose to rely on random internet sights and "other voices" to define God's Words for them, it is their choice. We can all go straight to the source if we have Faith enough to trust it. Sadly, "many" just don't trust it, as Jesus taught.

for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

And lastly, the atonement of our sins. And not by the Levite Priest according to the "ADDED" Priesthood Law, but the Christ Himself will take over the High Priest Duties, as Hebrews teaches, and with HIS own Blood, atone for the sins of the repentant of the world, on whose hearts His Laws are written.

There are literally millions of "other" religious voices out there. But only one God. Let's learn from Him.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

[4WD]

Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;

That is the new covenant, not the first covenant.  But of course you haven't the foggiest idea of either one so it is not surprising that you would not understand the question in the OP or the answer presented.

You are sinking deeper and deeper into whatever cult it is that you belong to.

[GB]

That is the new covenant, not the first covenant.  But of course you haven't the foggiest idea of either one so it is not surprising that you would not understand the question in the OP or the answer presented.

You are sinking deeper and deeper into whatever cult it is that you belong to.

I posted scriptures which tell us exactly what the First Covenant, the Covenant that changed, was. Not according to random preachers on the internet, but according to the Word of God itself.

Heb. 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.

3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;

This isn't the first Covenant God made with man. It is the First Covenant God made with the Children of Israel.

Here is the "first Covenant" God made with man.

Gen. 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

And Abraham's children were Blessed because Abraham believed God's Covenant and partook of it, like Noah, Abraham was "grafted" into God's Holy Tree with Noah and Abel and "partook with them".

Gen. 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

But in the process of time, Abraham's Children forgot God's Laws, or HIS definition of "Doing well", and their voices were heard, because of the Promises He gave to Abraham, so God remembered His Covenant with Abraham. I would post the scriptures but you will just reject them anyway.

So God sent Moses to show them "HIS LAWS, Commandments, Statutes" once again, that the Bible says Abraham obeyed, only this time, HE "ADDED" a Covenant with the Children of Israel that Abraham didn't have. It is called the Levitical Priesthood, and it was the First Covenant God made with the "House of Israel". It foreshadowed the Sacrifice that Abraham knew God would make for His People. It was given to them to lead them to their true Savior.

Paul teaches that this Covenant, given 430 years after Abraham obeyed God's Commandments, Statutes, and Laws, didn't annul His Covenant with Abraham.


Isn't it fascinating, that an entire religion is founded on the religious doctrine that God didn't give His Law to anyone until Mt. Sinai. So then If God gave Abraham's Children the Same Laws, Statutes, and Commandments that He gave Abraham, but "ADDED" a Priesthood to administer God's Laws to His People, and provide for the atonement of their sins until the Christ came, then this entire religion comes crashing down.

So I am left with a choice. Do I believe modern religious voices teaching that God slaughtered tens of thousands of people for transgressing Laws He never gave them? Or their religious teaching that the two greatest Commandments in the Law were not given until 430 years after Abraham obey God's Laws, Commandments, and Statutes?

Or do I believe in the Word's of God, that the first Covenant God made with the Children of Israel was the Levitical Priesthood, everything else was the continuance of the Covenant God made with Abraham. 

[4WD]

You mix your own view of things with the Word of God and think that is what God says.  Fascinating but so terribly wrong.  It emanates, I think, from egotism and narcissism.  Where else?

And just as bad you mix your own view of things with what others here have said and then claim that is what they said.

I, apparently like most others here, will simply not bother with any interchange with you in the future.

[RB]

You mix your own view of things with the Word of God and think that is what God says.  Fascinating but so terribly wrong.  It emanates, I think, from egotism and narcissism.  Where else?

And just as bad you mix your own view of things with what others here have said and then claim that is what they said.

I, apparently like most others here, will simply not bother with any interchange with you in the future.

Good choice~you can not argue with dumb~impossible. Spiritually speaking he's on the level of an idiot. It serves no profit since he cannot even carry on a reasonable dialogue since he is so blinded by his self-worth of having the power of serving God, loving, fearing, and repenting without God giving him the heart to do so. He's programmed and guided by a spirit that has an ego greater than his! This would be true of any man or woman that preaches his own self-worth and not that of Jesus Christ's obedience alone for the forgiveness of our sins.

Re: What are the words of the 'first covenant'? 

Can be simply summed up in one sentence: "This DO and LIVE, sinned and DIE".... the second death which is eternal condemnation in the lake of fire. Under the first covenant, man DID NOT HAVE A SURETY who was without sin to stand in his place and yield unto the law of God its perfect obedience that is demanded from a man before that man could live and not die.

What are the words of the SECOND COVENANT? if thou canst tell, please speak on current occuppant2.

[beam]

Yes, there are "many" other voices out there that teach differing doctrines and traditions regarding their opinion of the New Covenant. You have sorted through these other voices and landed on one which meets with your personal religion the best.

But since we have been warned over and over about the "other voices" out there to deceive us, I would think we should listen to the Creator of the Covenant Himself for it's definition to make sure we are not led astray by "other" religious voices like so many before us.

Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;

So here it is. This is not some random preacher on the internet, some religious franchise marketing to add members and increase their bottom line. This is the Christ, the creator of all things, telling His People what HIS New Covenant it. We all have the choice to listen and believe Him, or another voice.

After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

So there is the first part. He will write HIS LAWS (Instructions) on their heart. This is not in any way annulling His Laws, or changing them, or nailing them to His Cross as "many" preach. In the New Covenant of the Christ, the one HE Creates for His People, there is no talk of a changed Law at all, rather, a process that will ensure His People are not led astray by other religious voices, like Eve and the Jews.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:

And here is another part of the Covenant the Christ, in HIS own Words, defines. No more will we need to rely on or depend on Levite Priests, according to the Law, or any "other" religious voices to know the Christ. These other voices have led God's People astray for centuries, beginning with Eve. No, after those days we will all have direct access to HIS Words. We will all know Him. I find this Prophesy especially thrilling. Could those people of Jeremiah's time even imagine a time when God's Word was available to every man on the planet? And yet, here we are. While it is true "MANY" still choose to rely on random internet sights and "other voices" to define God's Words for them, it is their choice. We can all go straight to the source if we have Faith enough to trust it. Sadly, "many" just don't trust it, as Jesus taught.

And lastly, the atonement of our sins. And not by the Levite Priest according to the "ADDED" Priesthood Law, but the Christ Himself will take over the High Priest Duties, as Hebrews teaches, and with HIS own Blood, atone for the sins of the repentant of the world, on whose hearts His Laws are written.

There are literally millions of "other" religious voices out there. But only one God. Let's learn from Him.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

A cople of observations.  First the OP is not about the new covenant.  It is about the Words of the old covenant.  What are the words of the first covenant, old covenant?

Secondly, I don't believe your post was necessary.  We all know what Jeremiah prophesied.  What we do not agree on is what laws are written on our hearts.  I contend that the laws of the first covenant dealing with ritualism certainly are not written on our hearts.  Those laws were for Israel.  Anything dealing with morality is what is written on our hearts.  Agape love encompasses every aspect of morality.  That is the great lesson God is wants to instlll in every human being.   Ours is to open our hearts and allow it to happen.

[GB]

You mix your own view of things with the Word of God and think that is what God says.  Fascinating but so terribly wrong.  It emanates, I think, from egotism and narcissism.  Where else?

And just as bad you mix your own view of things with what others here have said and then claim that is what they said.

I, apparently like most others here, will simply not bother with any interchange with you in the future.

You have your religious doctrines and traditions, and your opinion. But it is a Biblical Fact that the Levitical Priesthood was not given to Abraham, but was given to the Children of Israel. And it is a Biblical Fact that God's Covenant with Abraham included God's Commandments, God's Statutes, and God's Laws.

It is your religious tradition and opinion that preaches God's Laws, Commandments, and Statutes He gave Abraham are not the same as God's Commandments, Laws and Statutes He gave to Abraham's Children.

It is a compelling argument for those who are seeking truth. Not so much for mainstream preachers. Modern religions, including yours, are founded on the belief that the Levitical Priesthood given to the Levites for the purpose of administering God's Laws, and providing for the atonement of sins, can not be separated from God's Laws, Commandments and Statutes.

This is the foundation of the argument. The Pharisees wouldn't separate them either.

But the Christ did. He spoke of a time when "HE" would administer God's Laws, and "HE" would provide for the atonement of sins. But for this to happen there had to be a New Covenant, one which allowed a NON-Levite to be the High Priest.

Just because modern religious man don't believe this doesn't make it untrue.

[GB]

author=beam link=topic=105033.msg1055152259#msg1055152259 date=1575432951]
A cople of observations.  First the OP is not about the new covenant.  It is about the Words of the old covenant.  What are the words of the first covenant, old covenant?

The OP, in my understanding, was speaking of the Covenant that was changed.

Secondly, I don't believe your post was necessary.  We all know what Jeremiah prophesied.  What we do not agree on is what laws are written on our hearts.  I contend that the laws of the first covenant dealing with ritualism certainly are not written on our hearts.  Those laws were for Israel.

I agree that the "First Covenant" God made with the Children of Israel was the ritualistic Levitical Priesthood. It dealt with how God's Laws, Commandments and Statutes were administered, (Moses seat) and it provided for the Atonement of sins (providing sacrificial "works" for the atonement of sins) until the Lamb of God came to earth.

"After those day", Jesus will become our High Priest. He will administer God's Laws, and He will provide atonement for sins.

But for this to happen, there had to be a "New Covenant", because it was unlawful for anyone, other than a Levite, to become a High Priest and provide for the atonement of sins. So this Law had to change as it is written.

Heb. 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

Hebrews tells us what the "First Covenant" was.

Heb. 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.

3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;

6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.

7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:

In all of Hebrews 7-10, there is not one mention of the 10 Commandments other than it was in the Ark with Aaron's Rod that budded. There is no mention of God's Laws, Statutes, or Commandments being changed, altered, amended in any way. EVERY scripture in these 4 chapters speaks to the "First Covenant" or the Levitical Priesthood ritualistic sacrificial laws of atonement.

  Anything dealing with morality is what is written on our hearts.  Agape love encompasses every aspect of morality.  That is the great lesson God is wants to instlll in every human being.   Ours is to open our hearts and allow it to happen.

This is your religious belief, but has nothing to do with the OP, and the First Covenant or the New Covenant which replaced it, at least according to what the Christ of the Bible tells us in Jeremiah 31.

I am speaking of the actual Word's of God here. The "LAW" that was replaced, was the Levitical Priesthood, not the two greatest Commandments of God and all that hangs on them. This is a religious doctrine of the land.

[Michael2012]

It seems Hebrews 7-10 is speaking to the Levitical Priesthood as the "covenant" that became obsolete.

To the contrary, in my reading of scriptures, it does not seem that way to me.

Heb. 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.

3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;

4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;

5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.

6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.

7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:

This is speaking about the Priesthood, not the Commandments, Statutes, or Laws of God He gave His People.

While the Hebrews writer do speak about the priesthood, he is not by that, saying that the first covenant is the Levitical Priesthood. What it does mean is that the first covenant includes the priesthood and had ordinances of divine service and a worldly sanctuary.

Hebrews 9:18 Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood. 19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water, scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, 20 saying, "This is the blood of the covenant which God has commanded you."

The first covenant referred to by the writer of Hebrews, is a covenant between God and the Israelites, made at the time of Moses, whose mediator is Moses. The writer, in this passage, is referring to Exodus 24. It is the covenant God made with their fathers, in the day that God took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt. It is not a covenant between God and the Levites, but between God and the people of Israel. The precepts or commandments of the first covenant includes all that God had given through Moses then.

Hebrews 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,

By this Law the High Priest had to be a Levite. Jesus was from the tribe of Judah. Therefore by necessity the Law had to change to allow someone other than a Levite to become a High Priest. No other change is mentioned.

There is no mention of the Ten Commandments, or the 2 greatest Commandments in the Law of God, or His Feasts, or any other Law, becoming obsolete. The "first Covenant" that the Hebrews Author was speaking to was the Levitical Priesthood.

Regarding the passage, I had a couple of questions for you. What is the perfection referred there in verse 11 about?

The passage you quoted, in verse 11, had in parenthesis "for under it the people received the law". What law is the writer of Hebrews referring to which he says the people received?

Heb. 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.

4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:


Heb. 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

This is the Covenant that became obsolete according to Hebrews.

Heb. 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, (Levite Priests who led His people astray) he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

No more Levite Priest to administer God's Laws.

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

No more Levite Priests to perform sacrificial "works of the Law" for the atonement of sins.

Given these and many other scriptures, I believe the mainstream teaching that the "first covenant" Spoken of by the Hebrews Author was the entire Law God Gave to Abrahams children through Moses is a deception. And that God's Laws didn't become obsolete at all, just the Priesthood that was  ADDED "till the Seed should come".

That is just your personal opinion. While indeed the Levitical Priesthood is no more, it is not a covenant. The scriptures you quoted does not at all say that the Covenant that became obsolete is the Levitical Priesthood. For one, there isn't a Covenant such as that of the Levitical Priesthood. Scriptures does not speak of a covenant between God and the Levites, that God changed this covenant with the Levites because he found the Levites at fault. That is a deceptive lie.

[Michael2012]

ooops

[Michael2012]

Here is the "first Covenant" God made with man.

Gen. 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

That is not at all a covenant GB, more so, a covenant between God and man. That is a simple teaching by God to Cain. What you teach there is obviously a false teaching, and an erroneous belief.

[Michael2012]

In all of Hebrews 7-10, there is not one mention of the 10 Commandments other than it was in the Ark with Aaron's Rod that budded. There is no mention of God's Laws, Statutes, or Commandments being changed, altered, amended in any way. EVERY scripture in these 4 chapters speaks to the "First Covenant" or the Levitical Priesthood ritualistic sacrificial laws of atonement.

If I'm not mistaken, you are referring to this scriptures:

Hebrews 9:4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tablets of the covenant;

You are saying that the 10 Commandments were in the Ark with Aaron's Rod, right? That means you admit and acknowledge that the 10 commandments are included and are part of the covenant. And if they are, are they part of the Levitical Priesthood ritualistic sacrificial laws of atonement which you say is the "First Covenant"? Apparently, you exposed the error of your teaching and refuted your own false doctrine.

[current occupant2]

The introduction of the new covenant is a rabbit trail that avoids the actual topic. 

The facts stated in the opening post are that Hebrews 9:18-21 identify the FIRST COVENANT that is also called 'old'. 

The identity of that first covenant is found in Exodus 24:1-8 and the words of that covenant are pointedly described as "ALL THE WORDS OF THE LORD".

The context of the description "ALL THE WORDS OF THE LORD" demands that everything spoken by God from Exodus 20 and onward to the end of Exodus 23 be included in the words of the FIRST COVENANT. 

[GB]

The introduction of the new covenant is a rabbit trail that avoids the actual topic. 

The facts stated in the opening post are that Hebrews 9:18-21 identify the FIRST COVENANT that is also called 'old'. 

The identity of that first covenant is found in Exodus 24:1-8 and the words of that covenant are pointedly described as "ALL THE WORDS OF THE LORD".

The context of the description "ALL THE WORDS OF THE LORD" demands that everything spoken by God from Exodus 20 and onward to the end of Exodus 23 be included in the words of the FIRST COVENANT.

What you are furthering is ancient religious traditions of man, not what the Bible teaches. You are omitting the Covenant of Abraham God remembered when Abraham's Children cried out.


In the "first Covenant" which is also the "old covenant" Hebrews speaks to, there is not one mention of any of the Commandments you reference in Ex. 20-23. NOT ONE WORD. Nor is there even one mention in Ex. 20-23 of the topic that is examined in Hebrews 7-10.

I know this is the first time many has even been shown this, and most will just blow it off, but for those of you who may be interested in Biblical Truth over ancient catholic tradition, look for yourself.

Hebrews 7-10 speaks only to the Levitical Priesthood.

Heb. 7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;

No mention of Moses here, rather, the Priesthood that existed before Moses.

11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

No mention of perfection by the 10 Commandments, or the 2 Greatest Commandments, only the Priesthood.

12 For the priesthood being changed, (Not God's Commandments) there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

According to the Priesthood only a Levite can become a Priest, so for Jesus to become our High Priest it was necessary for the Law to change. Not one mention of even one Word or Commandment from God in Ex. 20 thru 23. Not one word.

Look for yourself.

Heb. 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.

4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

Again, not one mention of any Law or Commandment, or Statute mentioned in Ex. 20-23. Not one Word!!!

Heb. 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.

3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;

4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;

5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.

6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.

7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:

Again, no mention of even one Command given to us in Ex. 20 thru 23.

Heb. 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

There is not one mention of even one Law taught by God in Ex. 20-23. Not even one mention. He will take away the "first" Priesthood, which called for Levite Priests to take the blood of animals for the atonement of sins, and replace it with the Second Priesthood, which is after the order of Melchisedec.

It isn't God's Laws, Statutes and Commandments that became obsolete, it was the Priesthood that was to administer them that became obsolete.

Heb. 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Sadly, religious men would rather just follow the path "many" people are on, and are not interested in looking into these truths. They must defend their religion, just as religious men have been doing since Cain. If you can study Hebrews 7-10 and show me where there is even one mention of any of the Commandments referenced in Ex. 20-23, please do so.

Otherwise you are simply promoting ancient religious traditions of man. I hope you will look into it.

[GB]

That is not at all a covenant GB, more so, a covenant between God and man. That is a simple teaching by God to Cain. What you teach there is obviously a false teaching, and an erroneous belief.

Oh Michael, if only you believed the God of the Bible.

4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

Why did God accept Abel and not Cain? God tells me.

7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Your religion which preaches this was only between God and Cain, and not God and Abel or Abraham, or me, is not only a false, satanic and deceptive religious doctrine contrary to every verse in the Bible, it's also foolishness.

But you don't know this because you have been taken captive to do its will. And when God's Word corrects you, your pride  stops you from repentance.

This is why Jesus said we MUST "deny our self" and turn to Him, and His Voice, and to depart from the voices which teach you this nonsense.

[GB]

If I'm not mistaken, you are referring to this scriptures:

Hebrews 9:4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tablets of the covenant;

You are saying that the 10 Commandments were in the Ark with Aaron's Rod, right? That means you admit and acknowledge that the 10 commandments are included and are part of the covenant. And if they are, are they part of the Levitical Priesthood ritualistic sacrificial laws of atonement which you say is the "First Covenant"? Apparently, you exposed the error of your teaching and refuted your own false doctrine.

It is one of the duties of the Priesthood, that even you acknowledged, to teach God's Laws to the people , teach about Aaron and Abraham, and Noah etc. So of course there is a record of these Laws in order to read them to the people.

Now, for those who believe Jesus has become our high Priest, it is now His duty to administer God's Laws to us, which He does for His People when He writes God's Laws on their hearts according to His Promises in Jer. 31.

Your religion which preaches that when the "old" Priesthood became obsolete, so did all the instructions of God, is not only un-Biblical, but also false and destructive.

[beam]

The OP, in my understanding, was speaking of the Covenant that was changed.

The title of the OP is  "What are the words of the 'first covenant'?"
 

I agree that the "First Covenant" God made with the Children of Israel was the ritualistic Levitical Priesthood.

That is not what I wrote and I want it on record that I do not agree with you.   There were ritual laws within the Sinai covenant.  Sabbath, feast days, sacrificial services etc.   Those laws and the laws dealing with morality made up the laws of the covenant.  What were the words of the covenant?  That is what is being asked.

It dealt with how God's Laws, Commandments and Statutes were administered, (Moses seat) and it provided for the Atonement of sins (providing sacrificial "works" for the atonement of sins) until the Lamb of God came to earth.

Actually, the covenant was God's plan for how the Israelites were to live.  It was the rules that were to guide all of Israel to be... Ex19:5 Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, 6 you[a] will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.' These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.  The Sinai covenant was not to be how to obtain salvation.  It was through the Abrahamic covenant that the way of salvation was established.  Not one Israelite was ever saved by the sacrificial laws.  Jesus saved them the same way He did Abraham and anyone else that believed in God.

This is your religious belief, but has nothing to do with the OP, and the First Covenant or the New Covenant which replaced it, at least according to what the Christ of the Bible tells us in Jeremiah 31.

You are correct and ditto to some of what you have written. 

I am speaking of the actual Word's of God here. The "LAW" that was replaced, was the Levitical Priesthood, not the two greatest Commandments of God and all that hangs on them. This is a religious doctrine of the land.

The Levitical Priesthood was the result of a ritual law contained in the Sinai covenant.  It ended when Jesus became our High Priest.  When there is a change in the priesthood there is also a change in the law.  Just to remind you the two great commandments are not found in the 10 commandments, they are found in Deuteronomy and Leviticus or in the part of the Law that God dictated to Moses.

[Michael2012]

Here is the "first Covenant" God made with man.

Gen. 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

That is not at all a covenant GB, more so, a covenant between God and man. That is a simple teaching by God to Cain. What you teach there is obviously a false teaching, and an erroneous belief.

Oh Michael, if only you believed the God of the Bible.

4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

Why did God accept Abel and not Cain? God tells me.

7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Your religion which preaches this was only between God and Cain, and not God and Abel or Abraham, or me, is not only a false, satanic and deceptive religious doctrine contrary to every verse in the Bible, it's also foolishness.

But you don't know this because you have been taken captive to do its will. And when God's Word corrects you, your pride  stops you from repentance.

This is why Jesus said we MUST "deny our self" and turn to Him, and His Voice, and to depart from the voices which teach you this nonsense.

Oh GB, if only you'll be true and honest to yourself, you can be out of self deception. How can you not see the plain, simple, and the obvious truth and believe? That could only be because of blindness and hardness of heart.

GB, I find you here as not able to refute the truth spoken in that scriptures. And all you have in your attempt to refute the truth of what I said is Ad Hominem, if not, a mere disagreement. I am not surprised by that. For every time you find yourself hard pressed against the wall by the truth in scriptures, you could only do so much.   

Oh GB, why do you make out something to be a covenant when it is not? If it were a covenant and even a covenant between God and man, why was there not one reference to it as being a covenant by God's chosen prophets of old nor by Jesus, nor by His chosen apostles? Why do you fight against scriptures that you claim to believe are the words of the true God?

And let go of the pride you have in you. It will destroy you GB. Stop thinking and believing that whatever you say is the truth or is supposed to be the truth. If at all you speak some truth, one is that we MUST "deny our self" and turn to God, and His Voice, even to the Lord Jesus Christ. So, it's time that you let that truth work in you GB and humble yourself. By that, will you not have done well? And if thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?

[Michael2012]

If I'm not mistaken, you are referring to this scriptures:

Hebrews 9:4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tablets of the covenant;

You are saying that the 10 Commandments were in the Ark with Aaron's Rod, right? That means you admit and acknowledge that the 10 commandments are included and are part of the covenant. And if they are, are they part of the Levitical Priesthood ritualistic sacrificial laws of atonement which you say is the "First Covenant"? Apparently, you exposed the error of your teaching and refuted your own false doctrine.

It is one of the duties of the Priesthood, that even you acknowledged, to teach God's Laws to the people , teach about Aaron and Abraham, and Noah etc. So of course there is a record of these Laws in order to read them to the people.

What a cheap excuse you got there GB. The matter is you have exposed the error of your teaching and refuted your own false doctrine. And you can't deny and have not denied that. Read what is inside the ark and tell me what you have read:

tablets of the covenant

Now, for those who believe Jesus has become our high Priest, it is now His duty to administer God's Laws to us, which He does for His People when He writes God's Laws on their hearts according to His Promises in Jer. 31.

Irrelevant.

Your religion which preaches that when the "old" Priesthood became obsolete, so did all the instructions of God, is not only un-Biblical, but also false and destructive.

Repetitive and irrelevant.

It remains:

You teach that the 10 Commandments were in the Ark with Aaron's Rod, with reference to Hebrews 9:4. That means you admit and acknowledge that the 10 commandments are included and are part of the covenant. And if they are, are they part of the Levitical Priesthood ritualistic sacrificial laws of atonement which you say is the "First Covenant"? Apparently, you exposed the error of your teaching and refuted your own false doctrine.

[beam]

It isn't God's Laws, Statutes and Commandments that became obsolete, it was the Priesthood that was to administer them that became obsolete.

The priesthood was the result of the Law.  The Law became obsolete.  Jesus said He came to fulfil the Law and prophets.  Fulfil means to bring to an end.  Paul fortifies this in 2Cor3:6-11 where he tells us that indeed the 10 commandments are obsolete.  They were the guide for one nation, Israel.  Eph 2:15 Jesus set aside the Law in orfder to make peace between Jew and gentile. Of course we know that laws deaing with morality are forever.  The ritual laws that God made only for Israel are obsolete.  The nine commands in the 10 are found in the many laws of the Royal Law of Love.   The nine laws of the 10 commandments were just the tip of the iceberg of laws that govern Christians and those are the laws written in our hearts.  We know when we are not treating others like Jesus would treat them.  We know when we are sinning.

I am so thankful that I realize that religon will not save me and in fact only drive me away from truth.  Jesus is enough.

[GB]

author=beam link=topic=105033.msg1055152360#msg1055152360 date=1575595891]
The title of the OP is  "What are the words of the 'first covenant'?"
  That is not what I wrote and I want it on record that I do not agree with you.   There were ritual laws within the Sinai covenant.  Sabbath, feast days, sacrificial services etc.   Those laws and the laws dealing with morality made up the laws of the covenant.  What were the words of the covenant?  That is what is being asked.

Hebrews answers the question. It's just that ancient Catholic Religion teaches a different "first Covenant" and most religions have adopted her version, instead of what the Bible actually says.

Heb. 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.

3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;

4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;

5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.

6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.

7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:

I Hebrews 7-10 There is no mention of God's Holy Sabbaths, Passover, or any of the Feast's of the Christ. No mention of the 2 greatest Commandments in the law and all that hangs on them. This part of your reply is all ancient religious tradition of man that were are warned about.

So I know how popular the religion is that preaches there was no Law before Mt. Sinai, or that God gave Abraham different laws than He gave Abraham's children, with the exception of the Levitical Priesthood, "ADDED" until our True High Priest came.

But if a person lives by Every Word of God, this popular religion, like the religions of the land in Paul's time, is shown to be founded on doctrines and traditions of man, not from God.

Actually, the covenant was God's plan for how the Israelites were to live.  It was the rules that were to guide all of Israel to be... Ex19:5 Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, 6 you[a] will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.' These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.  The Sinai covenant was not to be how to obtain salvation.  It was through the Abrahamic covenant that the way of salvation was established.  Not one Israelite was ever saved by the sacrificial laws.  Jesus saved them the same way He did Abraham and anyone else that believed in God.

Yes, belief in the God of the Bible is the key.

Gen. 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

This is God's everlasting Covenant that Abraham believed but Cain did not.

Gen. 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

4. So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him;

And God, true to His Promises, accepted Abraham and blessed him.

Gen. 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. (Doing well, not just hearing)

So of course God gave this same Covenant to Abraham's Children.

Ex. 19:Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, ( Doing well as Abraham did) then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:"

Only this time, God "ADDED" a Levitical Priesthood that Abraham didn't have. Hebrews 7 calls it the Levitical Priesthood, Heb. 9 called it the "first Covenant" and the "old Covenant" which became obsolete.

But God's Promises He offered to Abraham who believed it, remain the same to this day. The Priesthood "ADDED" 430 years later did not make void God's Promises to Abraham.

The only thing that was changed was the Priesthood. At least this is what the Bible teaches.

The Levitical Priesthood was the result of a ritual law contained in the Sinai covenant.  It ended when Jesus became our High Priest.

Yes, the Levitical Priesthood ended when the Messiah came as He promised in Jer. 31. But it wasn't the result of a ritual law, it was a ritual law.

When there is a change in the priesthood there is also a change in the law.

Yes, and Hebrews explains exactly what that change was. Why do religious men ignore this?

Heb. 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

13 For he of whom these things are spoken (Jesus) pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

The "first" or "old" Priesthood, by Law, could only be partaken of by Levites. It was strictly forbidden for any one of another tribe to become a Priest, much less the High Priest. So for someone of "another tribe" to take the office of the High Priest there must also be, "By Necessity" a change also in the law.

So the Priesthood Laws, given specifically to the Levite, change so as to allow someone other than a Levite to hold this divine service.

It's right there Beam. In your own Bible. It tells you what the first covenant is, and it tells you what Law was changed, and why it was changed, what became obsolete, and why. Hebrews 7-10 lays it all out, all you have to do is believe it. And in all 4 chapters there is not even one mention of any Commandments, Statute, or Law of God other than the Priesthood God gave Levites for administration of God's Laws, and to perform "works of this law" for the atonement of sins.

It isn't the Bible that is wrong here, it is the ancient religious traditions of men that the Christ warned of so many times. I hope you might consider.

Just to remind you the two great commandments are not found in the 10 commandments, they are found in Deuteronomy and Leviticus or in the part of the Law that God dictated to Moses.

So are you preaching that the 2 greatest Commandments, and all that hang on them, doesn't include the 10 Commandments?

Aren't the 10 Commandments instructions on how to Love God, and Love our neighbor as ourselves?

[GB]

You teach that the 10 Commandments were in the Ark with Aaron's Rod, with reference to Hebrews 9:4. That means you admit and acknowledge that the 10 commandments are included and are part of the covenant. And if they are, are they part of the Levitical Priesthood ritualistic sacrificial laws of atonement which you say is the "First Covenant"? Apparently, you exposed the error of your teaching and refuted your own false doctrine.

So then in your religion, "Thou shall not commit adultery" is part of the ritualistic laws of atonement which became obsolete when Jesus became our High Priest.

OK Michael, it's your religion.

[beam]

Aren't the 10 Commandments instructions on how to Love God, and Love our neighbor as ourselves?

No, not at all, the 10 were demands.  The Israelites could keep them out of fear or obligation.  They say nothing about love, the were all about duty.  So that you do not get me wrong the Israelite could and should have kept them out of Love for their Creator and Redeemer.  Thou shalt not would not have been the way God would have asked them to love and not do anything to harm anyone.  Duty fits perfect in how God wanted to portray the 10.  If the 10 were about love then God would not have had to dictate to Moses the love laws in Deut and Leviticus now would He?

[Michael2012]

You teach that the 10 Commandments were in the Ark with Aaron's Rod, with reference to Hebrews 9:4. That means you admit and acknowledge that the 10 commandments are included and are part of the covenant. And if they are, are they part of the Levitical Priesthood ritualistic sacrificial laws of atonement which you say is the "First Covenant"? Apparently, you exposed the error of your teaching and refuted your own false doctrine.

So then in your religion, "Thou shall not commit adultery" is part of the ritualistic laws of atonement which became obsolete when Jesus became our High Priest.

OK Michael, it's your religion.

No GB. It's not about my religion. It's about your false teaching which you yourself exposed. It's clear there.

[beam]

Hebrews answers the question. It's just that ancient Catholic Religion teaches a different "first Covenant" and most religions have adopted her version, instead of what the Bible actually says.

Heb. 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.

3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;

4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;

5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.

6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.

7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:

So you believe the first covenant was only about the priesthood.  Why then does Heb 9:1 say and I quote "had also"?  Doesn't had also mean that there was more to the covenant?   You call out the Catholic church as not believing the way they should on the subject.  I say the Catholic church has many beliefs that are Biblical.  I have never studied their belief on the Sinai covenant, but if I agree, because you said so, then the Catholic church is teaching the truth along with many others.
Deuteronomy 5 New International Version (NIV)
The Ten Commandments
5 Moses summoned all Israel and said:

Hear, Israel, the decrees and laws I declare in your hearing today. Learn them and be sure to follow them. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3 It was not with our ancestors[a] that the Lord made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today. 4 The Lord spoke to you face to face out of the fire on the mountain. 5 (At that time I stood between the Lord and you to declare to you the word of the Lord, because you were afraid of the fire and did not go up the mountain.) And he said:

6 "I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

7 "You shall have no other gods before me.................

You are presenting a losing battle my friend.  Nothing you have written or pasted in any way proves your point.

I Hebrews 7-10 There is no mention of God's Holy Sabbaths, Passover, or any of the Feast's of the Christ. No mention of the 2 greatest Commandments in the law and all that hangs on them. This part of your reply is all ancient religious tradition of man that were are warned about.

Why shoud it have to mention all the laws of the covenant?  The subject was the priesthood.

So I know how popular the religion is that preaches there was no Law before Mt. Sinai,

Popular?  Who do you know that has made that statrement?  I respctfully belive you are making up a fable.

or that God gave Abraham different laws than He gave Abraham's children,

eut 5:2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb[/color][/b]. 3 It was not with our ancestors[a] that the Lord made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today.
  Abraham did not have the Sinai covenant.  He was not led out of Egypt gy God.  God gave the Sabbath day as a remembrance of that event.  Deut 5:15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

with the exception of the Levitical Priesthood, "ADDED" until our True High Priest came.

No exceptions my friend.

But if a person lives by Every Word of God, this popular religion, like the religions of the land in Paul's time, is shown to be founded on doctrines and traditions of man, not from God.

No one is under the ritual laws of the old covenant, so forinstence the new covenant does not require man to observe days including the weekly Sabbath.

Yes, belief in the God of the Bible is the key.

Gen. 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

This is God's everlasting Covenant that Abraham believed but Cain did not.

Gen. 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

4. So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him;

And God, true to His Promises, accepted Abraham and blessed him.

Gen. 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. (Doing well, not just hearing)

So of course God gave this same Covenant to Abraham's Children.

Ex. 19:Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, ( Doing well as Abraham did) then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:"

Only this time, God "ADDED" a Levitical Priesthood that Abraham didn't have. Hebrews 7 calls it the Levitical Priesthood, Heb. 9 called it the "first Covenant" and the "old Covenant" which became obsolete.

But God's Promises He offered to Abraham who believed it, remain the same to this day. The Priesthood "ADDED" 430 years later did not make void God's Promises to Abraham.

The only thing that was changed was the Priesthood. At least this is what the Bible teaches.

Wow! where did you get that information?   My advice is not to allow your fingers to make you look less than Kosher.  Read this: gal3:17 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.
The covenant's law contained, as the Jewish leaders tell us, 613 laws.  One was the priesthood law.

Yes, the Levitical Priesthood ended when the Messiah came as He promised in Jer. 31. But it wasn't the result of a ritual law, it was a ritual law.

Care to restate that?

Yes, and Hebrews explains exactly what that change was. Why do religious men ignore this?

Why do you ignore that it was only because the priesthood was the subject?

It's right there Beam. In your own Bible. It tells you what the first covenant is, and it tells you what Law was changed, and why it was changed, what became obsolete, and why. Hebrews 7-10 lays it all out, all you have to do is believe it. And in all 4 chapters there is not even one mention of any Commandments, Statute, or Law of God other than the Priesthood God gave Levites for administration of God's Laws, and to perform "works of this law" for the atonement of sins.

I am so sorry that you have been blinded to the real truth by someone that is blind to the real truth.  To make an arguement that most Christians are led astray does in no way make what you are trying to convince me and others of true.  Do you do that with most beliefs that most Christians hold?  Do you believe that only the very few have the true meaning of scripture and the remainder of us are somehow blurred from the truth?

[GB]

author=beam link=topic=105033.msg1055152366#msg1055152366 date=1575597993]
The priesthood was the result of the Law.  The Law became obsolete.  Jesus said He came to fulfil the Law and prophets.  Fulfil means to bring to an end.

There are many Greek meanings for the word fulfill. One is end. So let's examine the scripture you are using to teach God's Law is obsolete.

Matt. 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Destroy; Greek= kataluo "To loosen down", to "demolish" to halt for the night, destroy, dissolve, be guest, lodge, come to nought, overthrow, throw down.

Fulfil; Greek= pleroo, "to make replete" (Replete means "fully or abundantly provided or filled") to cram, to level up, to furnish, finish, accomplish, complete, end, fulfill, fill, (make) full, Fully Preach, perfect, supply.

To believe the ancient Catholic religion, and your religious doctrine concerning this verse I would have to believe Jesus is saying "I came not to bring My Father's Laws to an end, I came to bring My Father's Law to an end".

It seems obvious that in the context in which Jesus uses the words "destroy and fulfill" they are opposite of each other, not the same as you are teaching. I would love to engage is a discussion with you about this obvious problem with modern teaching, but I find that most religious men are not willing to admit they may have been influenced by other religious voices, apart from the Word of God.

I know the teaching that Jesus "ended" God's Laws is what we have been taught since our youth, but Jesus did not teach this, at least not in this scripture you use to preach that He did..

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

The same earth Jesus walked is still here, and all that was written about Him has not yet been fulfilled. These are simply Biblical facts. Shall I listen to them, or ancient religious doctrines and traditions of the land I was born into?

You have chosen this verse, and a few others, to support your religious belief that Jesus abolished His Fathers Laws, Statutes, and Commandments. (That the Bible says HE CREATED) This verse does not do that, it does the opposite if you consider EVERY Word of God as He instructs. Before we go on to the other verses you use to promote this ancient religious tradition, I would like to attempt to come to common ground on this one first.

In light of the understanding and support I have given, can you "SEE" why I don't believe Jesus abolished His Father's Laws in this verse?

[Amo]

Beam -

No, not at all, the 10 were demands.  The Israelites could keep them out of fear or obligation.  They say nothing about love, the were all about duty.  So that you do not get me wrong the Israelite could and should have kept them out of Love for their Creator and Redeemer.  Thou shalt not would not have been the way God would have asked them to love and not do anything to harm anyone.  Duty fits perfect in how God wanted to portray the 10.  If the 10 were about love then God would not have had to dictate to Moses the love laws in Deut and Leviticus now would He?

Willing ignorance preaches according to the lies it has chosen. You separate love from the commandments against the testimony of scripture because you have chosen to believe a lie and defend the same. The scriptures clearly and concisely reveal the intricate relation between love and God's law. They bring together that which you wish to separate as mandated by the deception you have chosen.

Exo 20:6  And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Deu 5:10  And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

Deu 6:5  And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. 6  And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

Deu 7:9  Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

Deu 10:12  And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,

Deu 11:1  Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, alway.

Deu 11:13  And it shall come to pass, if ye shall hearken diligently unto my commandments which I command you this day, to love the LORD your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul,

Deu 11:22  For if ye shall diligently keep all these commandments which I command you, to do them, to love the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways, and to cleave unto him;

Deu 19:9  If thou shalt keep all these commandments to do them, which I command thee this day, to love the LORD thy God, and to walk ever in his ways; then shalt thou add three cities more for thee, beside these three:

Deu 30:16  In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

Jos 22:5  But take diligent heed to do the commandment and the law, which Moses the servant of the LORD charged you, to love the LORD your God, and to walk in all his ways, and to keep his commandments, and to cleave unto him, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul.

Neh 1:5  And said, I beseech thee, O LORD God of heaven, the great and terrible God, that keepeth covenant and mercy for them that love him and observe his commandments:

Psa 119:165  Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them. 166 LORD, I have hoped for thy salvation, and done thy commandments. 167 My soul hath kept thy testimonies; and I love them exceedingly. 168 I have kept thy precepts and thy testimonies: for all my ways are before thee. 169 TAU. Let my cry come near before thee, O LORD: give me understanding according to thy word. 170 Let my supplication come before thee: deliver me according to thy word. 171 My lips shall utter praise, when thou hast taught me thy statutes. 172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness. 173 Let thine hand help me; for I have chosen thy precepts. 174 I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law is my delight. 175 Let my soul live, and it shall praise thee; and let thy judgments help me. 176 I have gone astray like a lost sheep; seek thy servant; for I do not forget thy commandments.

Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. 12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. 13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. 14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

1Jn 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

2Jn 1:5 And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another. 6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

[GB]

author=beam link=topic=105033.msg1055152396#msg1055152396 date=1575649380]
So you believe the first covenant was only about the priesthood.  Why then does Heb 9:1 say and I quote "had also"?  Doesn't had also mean that there was more to the covenant?

Absolutely, the Levitical Priesthood also had other duties besides sprinkling the blood of animals for the atonement of sins. It was their job to collect tithes, to teach the people God's Laws, to take the offering of the people, etc.

You call out the Catholic church as not believing the way they should on the subject.  I say the Catholic church has many beliefs that are Biblical.  I have never studied their belief on the Sinai covenant, but if I agree, because you said so, then the Catholic church is teaching the truth along with many others.

I use their name because it is they who came up with many of the religious traditions of Christianity today. Like the Pharisees, they used God's Name, and some of His Word's to promote their religious franchise, but also, like the Pharisees, rejected much of God's Word as well.

Deuteronomy 5 New International Version (NIV)
The Ten Commandments
5 Moses summoned all Israel and said:

Hear, Israel, the decrees and laws I declare in your hearing today. Learn them and be sure to follow them. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3 It was not with our ancestors[a] that the Lord made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today. 4 The Lord spoke to you face to face out of the fire on the mountain. 5 (At that time I stood between the Lord and you to declare to you the word of the Lord, because you were afraid of the fire and did not go up the mountain.) And he said:

6 "I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

7 "You shall have no other gods before me.................

You are presenting a losing battle my friend.  Nothing you have written or pasted in any way proves your point.

I know how powerful religious traditions are. But to believe you, I must believe that this Law of God didn't even exist until Mt. Sinai. And I must also reject the fact that the Children of Israel had lost sight of God, and were living in disobedience before God sent Moses to them, something Joseph didn't do. And I must also reject the scriptures which tell us Abraham obeyed God's Laws, Statutes and Commandments, or that God's Laws, Statutes and Commandments He gave to Abraham, were different than the Laws Statutes and commandments God gave to Abraham's Children.

What I do know is that God "ADDED" a Law 430 years after Abraham because of Transgressions. I am assuming the Children of Israel were transgressing God's Laws, Commandments, and Statutes God gave to Abraham. If you can find where they were transgressing someone else's Laws, please provide your evidence.

So God's Laws were not new, but the Priesthood He gave to the Levites was.

Why shoud it have to mention all the laws of the covenant?  The subject was the priesthood.

The "Covenant" that became obsolete, had to do with 2 things, as the Christ tells us in His Promise of the New Covenant.

#1. How God's Laws were administered. Only Levites by Blood could administer God's Laws to the people according to the "covenant" God made with the Children of Israel. The Christ promised to "Change" that in Jer. 31.

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

"Many" who come in Christ's Name, teach that the Christ made God's Laws obsolete, but according to Him, at least the Christ of the Bible, He does no such thing. Instead He promises to become the administrator of God's Laws, a job that was formally given exclusively to the Levites, according to the Covenant He made on Mt. Sinai.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

#2. The Levites were also given the exclusive duty to perform "works" to provide for the atonement of sins, until the Christ should come. Jesus also promises to take over this part of the Priesthood given exclusively to the Levites in the "Covenant" He made with Israel on Mt. Sinai.

It is man made religious traditions which promote the religious doctrine which preaches The Christ destroyed His own Laws. According to His Own Promises, He does just the opposite.

eut 5:2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb[/color][/b]. 3 It was not with our ancestors[a] that the Lord made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today.
  Abraham did not have the Sinai covenant.

Yes, Abraham had, and was a doer of God's Laws, Statutes, and Commandments, but he didn't have the Priesthood God gave exclusively to the Levites on Mt. Sinai, as Levi wasn't even born until years after Abraham had died.

He was not led out of Egypt gy God.

Egypt symbolizes sin does it not?

Gen. 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

How can you teach that this is any different than leading the Children of Israel out of Egypt?

The sad thing is, I fear you will just ignore these points and avoid even discussing them, as do many on this forum.

God gave the Sabbath day as a remembrance of that event.  Deut 5:15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

Are we not all told to "Deny our self" take up our life's experiences, and Follow the Christ? Are we not all brought out of sin to a land of God's Righteousness?  Is our Savior not the Lord of HIS Own Holy Sabbath? what about His Word's?

Is. 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

What Covenant do you preach this is? The Covenant with Abraham, or the one you preach this same Christ abolished?

IS. 58:12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.

13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

Is Christ not the "repairer of the breach"? If He isn't, then in your religion, who is?

No one is under the ritual laws of the old covenant, so forinstence the new covenant does not require man to observe days including the weekly Sabbath.

In the Catholic religion and her daughters, this is true. But in the Covenant the Christ promised, His Holy Sabbaths, that HE Sanctified at creation, are written on the hearts of His People. At least that is what He Promised.

Wow! where did you get that information?   My advice is not to allow your fingers to make you look less than Kosher.  Read this: gal3:17 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.

Yes, Abraham sins were atoned for "apart" from the Atonement Laws God gave to the Levites on Mt. Sinai. But Abraham was a "Doer" of God's Laws, Statutes, and Commandments, and it is because he obeyed them, that he was blessed. It's in your own Bible. At least according to the Christ of the Bible. As it is written; "If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him."

Abraham believe in this God, while Cain did not.

4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

So Abraham was not accepted by God because some Levite Priest took a turtle dove and sprinkled it's blood on the alter, He was accepted because of God's eternal truth. "If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted".

The covenant's law contained, as the Jewish leaders tell us, 613 laws.  One was the priesthood law.

Where did you get this doctrine? Are you sure you want to trust random Jewish Leaders? Didn't they tell lies about God's Word for centuries? Why would you listen to other voices and then incorporate them into your religion?

Care to restate that?
Why do you ignore that it was only because the priesthood was the subject?

I am so sorry that you have been blinded to the real truth by someone that is blind to the real truth.  To make an arguement that most Christians are led astray does in no way make what you are trying to convince me and others of true.  Do you do that with most beliefs that most Christians hold?  Do you believe that only the very few have the true meaning of scripture and the remainder of us are somehow blurred from the truth?

We are warned over and over about religious traditions and doctrines of men. I am not "blind" because I believe Him. I am simply posting scriptures and asking questions about them. If the scriptures and questions expose a man made doctrine, then you should thank me. If you can answer the questions and enter into an unbiased discussion about them, then maybe both of us will learn something. But to simply reject the scriptures and the questions posed because they bring questions about modern religious traditions, that is what the Pharisees did. And it didn't end well for them.

[beam]

Beam -
Willing ignorance preaches according to the lies it has chosen. You separate love from the commandments against the testimony of scripture because you have chosen to believe a lie and defend the same. The scriptures clearly and concisely reveal the intricate relation between love and God's law. They bring together that which you wish to separate as mandated by the deception you have chosen.

Exo 20:6  And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Deu 5:10  And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

Deu 6:5  And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. 6  And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

Deu 7:9  Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

Deu 10:12  And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,

Deu 11:1  Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, alway.

Deu 11:13  And it shall come to pass, if ye shall hearken diligently unto my commandments which I command you this day, to love the LORD your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul,

Deu 11:22  For if ye shall diligently keep all these commandments which I command you, to do them, to love the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways, and to cleave unto him;

Deu 19:9  If thou shalt keep all these commandments to do them, which I command thee this day, to love the LORD thy God, and to walk ever in his ways; then shalt thou add three cities more for thee, beside these three:

Deu 30:16  In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

Jos 22:5  But take diligent heed to do the commandment and the law, which Moses the servant of the LORD charged you, to love the LORD your God, and to walk in all his ways, and to keep his commandments, and to cleave unto him, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul.

Neh 1:5  And said, I beseech thee, O LORD God of heaven, the great and terrible God, that keepeth covenant and mercy for them that love him and observe his commandments:

Psa 119:165  Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them. 166 LORD, I have hoped for thy salvation, and done thy commandments. 167 My soul hath kept thy testimonies; and I love them exceedingly. 168 I have kept thy precepts and thy testimonies: for all my ways are before thee. 169 TAU. Let my cry come near before thee, O LORD: give me understanding according to thy word. 170 Let my supplication come before thee: deliver me according to thy word. 171 My lips shall utter praise, when thou hast taught me thy statutes. 172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness. 173 Let thine hand help me; for I have chosen thy precepts. 174 I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law is my delight. 175 Let my soul live, and it shall praise thee; and let thy judgments help me. 176 I have gone astray like a lost sheep; seek thy servant; for I do not forget thy commandments.

Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. 12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. 13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. 14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

1Jn 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. 5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

2Jn 1:5 And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another. 6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Sorry Amo, there is not one word in all your pasted scripture that indicates that the 10 commandments had anything to do with love.  If we love God we will, out  of love, obey them.  You are not the first one to challenge my belief about what the 10 commandments were about.  And you are not the first one to fail in your challenge.   Also you are not the first to misrepresent what the commandments of God are for Christians.

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  The Law became obsolete.  Jesus said He came to fulfil the Law and prophets.  Fulfil means to bring to an end.

No the law did not become obsolete; rather the old covenant became obsolete.  And no fulfill, when used concerning the law, does not mean to bring to an end. 

Mat 5:17  "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Jesus said specifically that He did not come to abolish, do away with or bring to an end, the Law and the Prophets.  He came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets, that is, to bring to full realization, to carry out completely, to satisfy the requirements of the Law and the Prophets. The Law, as with all Laws, has both a command which is to be met and a condition imposed, i.e., pay a penalty, if the command is not met, when the law is not obeyed.  He fulfilled the Law by paying the penalty.

Paul fortifies this in 2Cor3:6-11 where he tells us that indeed the 10 commandments are obsolete. 

Paul says no such thing; neither there or anywhere else. In 2 Corinthians it is the ministry of death that is set aside.  So what is the ministry of death?  It is not the law;  rather it is the penalty required, i.e., death of the soul, by not meeting the requirements of the law.  Jesus paid the penalty for all for failure of all to obey the law.

It was not the law that became obsolete; it was the old covenant based upon the law that became obsolete. The new covenant, also based upon the law, was put in its place.

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No the law did not become obsolete; rather the old covenant became obsolete.  And no fulfill, when used concerning the law, does not mean to bring to an end. 

Mat 5:17  "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Jesus said specifically that He did not come to abolish, do away with or bring to an end, the Law and the Prophets.  He came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets, that is, to bring to full realization, to carry out completely, to satisfy the requirements of the Law and the Prophets. The Law, as with all Laws, has both a command which is to be met and a condition imposed, i.e., pay a penalty, if the command is not met, when the law is not obeyed.  He fulfilled the Law by paying the penalty.

Let us say that I am wrong and you are correct.  If all the laws of the covenant are still required to keep where is it found in scripture telling us we don't have to obey the laws God dictated to Moses after His giving the laws on the stones, ten commandments?  If you are hell bent on trying to disprove that Jesus didn't bring the Sinai covenant laws to an end why are you not demonstrating your belief?

Paul says no such thing; neither there or anywhere else. In 2 Corinthians it is the ministry of death that is set aside.  So what is the ministry of death?  It is not the law;  rather it is the penalty required, i.e., death of the soul, by not meeting the requirements of the law.  Jesus paid the penalty for all for failure of all to obey the law.

For the Israelite to not keep all of the ten commandments, those commandments became the commandments of death.  Paul did not say that it was the penalty that was done away, he plainly wrote that it was the ten that were done away.  How you think you can twist his words to mean what you wrote in amazing. 
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.  The letter are the words.   The words of the ten commandments were to be the guide for Israel, those words, if not obeyed, killed those that were under them.  The power of the Holy Spirit promised by Jesus and given at Pentecost is in our hearts guiding Christians.  The Holy Spirit replaced the ten commandments that were written on stone.

7 But if the ministration of death, (ten commandments) written and engraven in stones, was (past tense) glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: (it was not the face of Moses that was to be done away, it was the ten commandments.  The ten were what was glorious.  Moses face only radiated that glory.

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

How could anyone deny that the Holy Spirit is not greater than the ten commandments  see verse 10

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.   

11 For if that which is done away was (past tense) glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

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It was not the law that became obsolete; it was the old covenant based upon the law that became obsolete. The new covenant, also based upon the law, was put in its place.

OY! you have yourself backed in a corner and are writing anything but the real truth.  Do you not realize that there are many who are reading our posts and will be influenced by them?  Anyone with any common sense knows that the Sinai covenant was mostly laws.  The ten commandments were laws, laws that were part of the covenant.  Obsolete the covenant and what is left?