Temporal Salvation?

[Netchaplain]

Netchaplain,

We have engaged before and I seem to recall you have issues with believing in freewill, at least at some point in the person's change from heathen to Christian. To me, this is the root problem with your accepting that a person who truly believes in the Lord Jesus can at some point in the future change his or her mind.

This I cannot understand. It makes perfect sense to me, biblically, that God wants faith and love toward Him to be freely given, by both the new convert and the old veteran. If there is no freewill after a true acceptance of Jesus unto salvation from sin, then anything given by that convert is constrained. Faithfulness that is not given from a free heart to choose is not faithfulness at all, it is manipulation.

How can God accept worship as being true if it comes from a heart that cannot choose otherwise.

Hi, and thanks for your input! I never have understood the issue many have concerning free will enough to comment on it.

[RB]

We'll just have to disagree. There are way too many warnings given to believers about falling away from the faith unto condemnation, being cut off due to faithlessness, etc

I understand what you are saying, but disagree with the scriptural SENSE you apply to many scriptures that may lend you sound bites causing you to believe as you do. Let me give you an example:

Romans 13:1-2~"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

"And they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation"~If we resist the ordinance of God, any ordinance at all, we should expect severe consequences. A little Bible reading reveals God's strict judgment of Cain, Moses, Nadab, Uzzah, Uzziah, etc.

God's damnation does not have to mean the lake of fire, as when used about the Corinthians (Ist Corinthians 11:27-32). Many Corinthians were weak, sickly, and died prematurely by their abuse of God's ordinance. Yet the text indicates that this judgment by God distinguished them from eternal condemnation.

There are two damning, or destructive, adversaries here ~God, and the civil ruler with his sword. Both are to be understood and taught, for both are true and indicated in this verse's context. Civil authority is God's ordinance (13:2a), so He judges or damns those that resist it and Him. Since civil rulers terribly punish criminals for evil works, civil rebels should fear them (13:3). Civil government carries a big sword (13:4), police and army, so civil rebels should be afraid. Civil rulers are God's ministers of revenge for civil order (13:4), so rulers should and do punish resisters.

So, DAMNATION in Romans 13:2 is JUDGEMENT in this world that will come by either those in power if one resit or God as he did with the Christians at Corinth

[RB]

Hi, and thanks for your input! I never have understood the issue many have concerning free will enough to comment on it.

Let us start a thread on this subject. Read this: https://www.amazon.com/Bondage-Will-Martin-Luther/dp/1598562800 and see what the Reformers thought of free will. Another powerful voice from the past: http://trinity-pres.net/essays/Edwards-Free-Will.pdf

[soterion]

I understand what you are saying, but disagree with the scriptural SENSE you apply to many scriptures that may lend you sound bites causing you to believe as you do. Let me give you an example:

We've had this discussion over and over, and one reason I backed off from posting was just plain exhaustion. Of course, I will be glad to get back into some of these things, as in here or in any near future discussion on freewill, but I fear it will just end up to no benefit except to somebody known or unknown reading and maybe gleaning. But then, that may be worth it.

By the way, just because you call somebody else's biblical proof of a position a "soundbite," does not make that person's position incorrect. You can expound the scriptures with many words to support your position, and still be incorrect as well.  

[Netchaplain]

Let us start a thread on this subject. Read this: https://www.amazon.com/Bondage-Will-Martin-Luther/dp/1598562800 and see what the Reformers thought of free will. Another powerful voice from the past: http://trinity-pres.net/essays/Edwards-Free-Will.pdf

It's my understanding that the will of everyone makes choices according to the nature they are after. The unsaved choose according to what leads to damnation, because their desire is after all connected to it. The saved chooses that which is after God, because of being in the new nature (via the Spirit), and no longer after the old nature (Rom 8:9); and God ensures the believer chooses that which is after Himself (Phl 2:13), because we are no longer our own (1Co 6:19).