Read Any Good Books Lately?

[mike]

julie danley:

I agree with you regarding F. LaGard Smith. It may be that it's just his style or tone of writing that irritates me. I do admire his scholarship and his zeal, but he comes across as arrogant to me. I remember being irritated at the tone of his open letter to Max Lucado in Who Is My Brother?

I don't intend this to mean anything specific about Lucado. Although he is a gifted poetic writer and a man of great influence, he is certainly not a deep theological author.

I guess it may just be that Smith seems more interested in restoration than I am. A funny thing to say for someone who grew up in Churches of Christ. In my spiritual pilgrimmage, I am more concerned with things like knowing God, true discipleship, and love and unity among all believers in Jesus. Smith seems to be a lot more interested in form than I am.

Concerning II Cor. 4:7, Dallas Willard said that both we, as individuals, and our churches, are "vessels" that contain the "heavenly treasure" of Jesus Christ. In Renovation of the Heart, p.243, he says:

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]The groups and times where individual and social transformation unto Christlikeness have manifestly taken place and have shaken the human order to its foundations all verify this completely: the early Christians, the early monastics, the early Franciscans or Dominicans, the early Quakers and early Methodists, for example. Note how in all these cases the word "early" has to be used this is because the "vessel" that emerges in the course of a particular outbreak of radical discipleship gradually overwhelms the heavenly "treasure" it initially served to convey. That is a primary satanic strategy in defeating the cause of Christ on earth. Then we have yet another tradition on exhibit in the museum of Christian history.[/quote]

I'm more interested in and committed to Jesus, while Smith (albeit only from his books, as I've never met him) seems to be more interested in the Church of Christ exhibit in the museum of Christian history.

Thanks, everyone, for listening to my rantings.

Mike
:D

[patriciaredstone]

Don't get mad at me ... but I have been given a brand new first edition hardback copy of Christopher Moore's new book, Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal.

:0

I'll let you know ....   :)

[Phil Wilson]

patriciaredstone,

I read Lamb a few weeks back. Tends toward the sacreligious, but never discounts Jesus' Messiah-hood. It's definitely interesting to see how a non-Christian views Jesus.

Church That Flies is a pretty great. Tim has some strong insights. Most people that have read it have said that he's put into words what many of us have been thinking about church, that being form vs. function, where function is more important than form in most progressive churches and form is more important than function in most conservative churches.

A better book is Distant Presence also by Woodroof. It's a historical fiction book based on Philippians. It's great both as a straight read, but also a Bible study.

Highly, highly recommended.

[marc]

Finished Founding Brothers this morning.  It made me want to read more deeply on the lives of the men portrayed, so I think I'll be patrolling used book stores and flea markets this weekend looking for the Adams book.  Now I can start on John Mark Hicks' book--I didn't want to begin reading it until I was able to concentrate on it fully.

[janine]

"...they, like we, talk to themselves a lot." -- Lacy

Meaning, they write up a lot of drivel aimed at others within their denomination, "preaching to the choir", so to speak, rather than writing for unbelievers?

Or, meaning that they may be two fries short of a Happy Meal? :p

[marc]

I'd also like to go back and read Mere Christianity and then read some of the books by CS Lewis I've never got to.  Ah, so many books, so little time.

Why does that remind me of Burgess Meredith and The Twilight Zone?

[mike]

I recently finished The Reconciled Life, A Critical Theory of Counseling, by R. Paul Olson. Dr. Olson is a professor of psychology, and has some academic background in theology. He is a liberal Christian (I hope I don't regret saying that!).

The main point of the book is Olson's thesis that reconciliation is the main goal of psychological counseling. He attempts to construct a workable, practical dialogue between psychology and Christianity.

I'm now reading Jesus and the Gospels, by Craig L. Blomberg. This is basically a textbook survrying the gospels, the historical and cultural backgrounds, and the life and teachings of Jesus. So far, I'm really enjoying it.

Mike
:D

[WileyClarkson]

I am presently reading "Early Christians Speak: Faith and Life in the First Three Christians (3rd edition)" by Everett Ferguson.  Extremely revealing in the schools of thought by early Christian leaders/writers (2nd - 4th centuries).  Published by ACU Press.  I found it at the ACU Bookstore for $11.95, which was cheaper than the other places I looked.

[spurly]

I am reading a book by Stever Farrar that I think is called, "Get in the Ark".  It's a book where he talks about the coming judgment on America for her sins, and he encourages people to get int he Ark of Jesus Christ because he will be the only safe harbor during the judgment.  

It is pretty good.

Kevin

[GGGGUS]

Hello!

I must encourage you to read:
     Fresh Wind, Fresh Fire
     Fresh Faith
     Fresh Power
3 book series by Jim Cymbala

These came at a time when I felt I was drowning in a stagnet pool of emotionless, empty "religion".  As my personal bible study became intense in an effort for "more", the Holy Spirit was trully revealing to me that He was the "more" I was looking for, and He is what my congregation is missing out on. (and so many other congregations)  Another Gift sent that we refuse to receive.  These are a must read.  

Two other favorites are probably familiar to most:

Forgiven Forever    Joe Beam
Revolutionary Grace and the Holy Spirit    Jay Guin


Great post!  I'm looking for some good reading!

GGGG US

[N2Him]

Hey good topic!

Where Is God When It Hurts ~ Philip Yancey

A Bend In the Road ~ Dr. David Jeremiah

Beginner's Guide to Spiritual Warfare ~ Neil Anderson

Next on the to read list:
The Case for Christ

The Jesus I Never Knew

[julie danley]

It is so good to have honest discussion.  I don't mind if you disagree with me as long as you listen.  
Janine, you may have described me accurately but keep in mind that the Spirit also lives in me...that flaming liberal... and in F. Lagard Smith.  I have to remind myself of that when I am angered by someone's comments.  
Mike, thanks for letting me know that we were close to the same page.  
Please let's continue with honest conversation and I promise I will work on being more diplomatic and gentle in my posts.  grace, Julie

[susieface]

Ok, I am buying Come To The Table.  I have been convinced.

Susie

[OldDad]

This is off topic.

I've been having some trouble posting and want to see if it's in just one forum or all of them.

Sorry for the interuption, keep the book suggestions coming!

OD

[Arkstfan]

The main thing I liked about Founding Brothers was that central theme of the people who were there, who wrote the documents, fought the war, and debated the issues being unable to achieve harmony on just what it was they were trying to accomplish.

It was really a 1780 to 1800 version of Acts. Is this message of Christ just for the Jews? Is it for them plus Gentiles willing to become this new version of Jew? Is it is a smaller core message that is for all, free of Jewishness? Those early church arguments were so similar to the debate of just how is this new government supposed to carry out the ideals of 1776?

[Lacy]

Kanham

You mentioned reading some books from the Church of God, Anderson, IN. This was the church I affiliated with in 1975 after I left the coC. I was truly blesses by their great humns and the books their early leaders had written about the Holy Spirit, Sanctification and unity. Their official title was "The Church of God Reformation Movement," and they had a lot in common with the Restoratioan Movement of which I had been a part. I became a pastor of this church until I retired in '96. It was ten years or more before I realized that the present leaders--authors, pastors and especially professors at the School of Theology--were as liberal as the United Methodist or Presbyterian churches. Their emphases now is on the Ecumenical Movement and not the Reformation Movement.

More than a year ago I began writing a book, as I mentioned in another post, in which I have a chapter on "Restoration and the Church of Christ," and another on "Reformation and the Church of God." I show that both Movements have failed in their original intent, one becoming a legalistic denomination and the other becoming a liberal denomination, rather than movements.

In a paper I received from a School of Theology, Professor of missions, Douglas E. Welch, he had this to say about what  "The Word of the Lord," means as it is used in the Bible and what it means today, after he says that our view is "too narrow and restricted:

"The word of the Lord is what God is doing in historical terms...It is God's word, not ours and indeed it may come, not from the historical past, but from the historical future, not a word about the future, but a word out of the future, a new and unexpected word--but always a liberative word." The rejection of the written word "from the historical past" is pure modernism; the term "liberative word" is the heart of liberation theology, which has become the accepted theology of the Anderson School of Theology.

Welch continues, "At this point, I will suggest--very briefly--three representative historical events which I believe are the word of the Lord to us today.

"First, the rise in our time of the theology of liberation, especially that exemplified by the basic ecclesial community movement of the Catholic Church in Latin America...We have, through this movement, learned to think more biblically about the Kingdom of God and God's justice, discovering that it is often in the vexing seculat that God is at work. And we have learned a new way of doing (emphases added) biblical hermeneutics, or reading the Bible.

"Secondly, the civil rights movement. Like the question of poverty, injustice, and oppression, the question of racism ought to have been a question addressed in a creative and liberating manner in Christian communities...Without the word of the Lord in the form of the civil rights movement, we would not yet perhaps been aware of the sinfulness of our basic social institutions.

"Thirdly, the feminist movement." What Welch says about the liberation of the poor and minority races, in this liberation theology article,  is also applicable to the liberation of women.

The new way of "doing theology" is to "reinterpret the [biblical event] in light of each new contingent situation." This evolving and diverse theology is not from Scripture but from evolving events and movements, and is called "contextual theology," the political, economical and socail contexts, and not the biblical context, determining the meaning of Scripture.

Welch concludes this article by saying (paraphrased), Neither what Jesus and His apostles said nor what the early Christians experienced is the word of the Lord for us--no matter that it is written in the Bible--but only that which results from the events and movements of our time, such as the above three movements.

I have more than eighty double spaced pages in my manuscript but I'll stop here with this post. Again I say, "We'll just have to eat the grass and spit out the sticks."

Lacy

p.s. You will be blessed by reading the old coG books, which are written from the Weslyan Holiness perspective and are heavy on sanctification and "sinless perfection," but I fear that most of their modern books are mostly sticks--hardly enough grass to justify the effort. And they, like we, talk to themselves a lot.

[ellisadam]

If you are interested in psychology and christianity you might check out "The Road Less Traveled" by M. Scott Peck

[winky]

Please forgive my italics issues!

[kimmie]

I'm currently reading a few thought-provoking books about restoring New Testament Christianity and challenging CoC traditions:

Spilt Grape Juice, by Mike Root
Interesting title, but awesome book! Mike Root offers a fresh look at what worship means in the Scriptures - not confined to a certain place at a certain time.  Also addresses the assembling of the early Christians vs. the assemblies we have today.

Radical Restoration, by F. LaGard Smith
Great book on restoring 1st Century principles and practices.  It's also very challenging: how close to New Testament Christianity are we?  Though I don't agree with everything LaGard writes, his book is really helping me to "think outside the box" and look outside of tradition.  

Next in line for me to read:

12 Steps for the Recovering Pharisee (like me), by John Fischer
A very humbling book, from what I've heard.  A good heart-examiner.  My husband thinks it's the best book he's ever read!

Tradition, Opinion, and Truth: The Emerging Church of Christ, by Fred Peatross
I've started reading this one and like it so far.  He makes a statement or two I don't agree with (or see the logic in), but he targets legalism, tradition, hermeneutics, etc. in this book.

Happy reading!

kimmie

[patriciaredstone]

I am enjoying two books by Marva Dawn. I have not finished them.

A Royal "Waste" of Time: The Splendor of Worshiping God and Being Church for the World

and

Is It A Lost Cause?: Having the Heart of God for the Church's Children

[gmk3]

Hey Julie,
   
   I listed Radical Restoration as a book to look into.  It doesn't mean I totally agree with everything in it.  I like the idea behind the book.  If people are really serious on restoring the "form" of the NT church then we need to rethink some things.  I've always thought that and like that he has written a book with that idea in mind.  I don't always agree with his ideas though.  I felt he was pretty harsh on the youth.  He almost sounded bitter toward youth groups.  That is just one example though.  There were things I liked and things I didn't like, but I still think it is worth looking into.  

Gilbert

[seekr]

Not having investigated fully (just one article) does not make me very knowledgeable. I do not like harsh stances,also, even in myself. I believe Christ's church is and has always been restored and always will be. How can it not be that way? It is a personal walk with Him and religiosity always stifles our efforts to be what He would have us be. Our views of restoring an institution by our calculations is not restoring the church. God restores, we just follow and hopefully will just be in a place God can use us with others. I think Lagard has some truth from what I have read, but we cannot change anything, we can just show others truth and wait for God to open their eyes. "I will build my church and the gates of Hades will NOT overcome it." I do not care what the organization subscribes to--the church is us.

Maurine

[nerdneh]

Has anyone read Diogenes Allen on Temptation? I recommend it.

Keener's Paul, Women and Wives is worth a read.

Elie Wiesel's Sages and Dreamers introduces us to a world most of us are unfamiliar with, at least I was.

Martin Seligmann's Learned Optimism helped me understand why I get so negative at times.

Ralph Martin's The Spirit is the Congregation should be on your short list.

Lois Cheney has published a new book, and I have read it, but I do not have the title, sorry!

[Barry]

Hi,
If anyone is interested, we have a completely free e-book that is given to our visitors that I wrote: Life Stages: Growing Toward Spiritual Maturity You can download it by CLICKING HERE

Barry

[janine]

I'm finally getting around to "Free In Christ" by Cecil Hooks.

[Arkstfan]

I finished The Names of Jesus by Rubel Shelly last night and started on Come to the Table by John Mark Hicks.

I give high recomendation to The Names of Jesus. It is an exploration of different names used to identify Jesus and in turn helps reveal more of the nature of our Savior. I will admit to being a bit partial to Shelly. He is a great writer, not because he uses great words but great ideas.

Very accessible book for both the new and mature Christian.

[Eric]

Books on the go in my life:

I am in the middle of "Two Views of Hell" - Edward Fudge and Robert Peterson.  It is kind of a debate style of book.  I have not gotten far enough yet to tell you my definitive once for all beliefs, but it is certainly interesting so far.  Both writers make a case for why this is an important topic to be clear on at the beginning.

I am also in the middle of "Radical Restoration" F LaGard Smith.  It is an interesting book.  I do not agree with all that I have read so far, but it does challenge me both when I agree and when I disagree to think about what I believe and what I value about the Restoration Movement.

My wife finished a book and handed it to me and told me to read it.  "Daring to Dance with God"  by Jeff Walling.  One of the interesting parts of the book is on the back cover.  There is an endorsement from Rick Warren and one from F LaGard Smith.  I have read the chapter on Death (Save the Last Dance for Me) - he makes the statement that makes such great sense to me, "We were not made for death".  That is why there is such pain when people die, it is unnatural.  We were not meant to go through it, but we sinned and now death is in the world.  God's perfect plan did not include that, his plan b through z is helping us overcome it.

I also picked up from the church library, but haven't opened it yet, "Prepare to Answer" by Rubel Shelly.  Looks interesting.

Most of what I read now has been written by Theo LeSeig.  A People House, Ten Apples Up On Top, Oh the Thinks You Can Think ...

I am surprised my posts don't rhyme more.
Eric

[Arkstfan]

I almost started a new thread and elected to bump this one up.

I finished Walking the Bible: A Journey by Land Through the Five Books of Moses while I was on vacation. It was interesting to get the author's perspective on the Holy Land.

I've misplaced Stephen Ambrose's Band of Brothers so I read Wild Blue by Ambrose instead. It's short but an interesting look at B-24 crews mainly focusing on George McGovern.

I started Rubel Shelly's The Names of Jesus today and should be done fairly quickly. So far its been pretty good (he sometimes gets a little too academic for my taste). Glad I started on it today though, as I got into the chapter "Lamb of God" I was called and asked to lead the communion devotional for the morning and our sermon is on forgiveness so I was already in the right mind-set to get prepared.

Next up will probably be Shelly and Mike Cope's book What Would Jesus Do Today?



[!--EDIT|Arkstfan|Aug. 10 2002,11:32--]

[Lacy]

Morris,

I read your exerpt from Oden's book and thought it was great. I'll check it out at Zondervans. I was there in the fifties and sisties when all of those liberal birds were teaching heir "fads," so I identified completely with Oden. Harvy Cox wrote his Secular City and two decades later wrote Religion In the Secular City, just as Bonhoffer had wished for a secular interpretation of the Bible.

If it wasn't so tragic, it would be humorous, the way the uppity professors pick up on a fad--whether it be the philosophy of Marx or Schleirmocher, which has already made the rounds and done its dastardly work, but has been revived just in time for them to learn it and pass it on to their students. An then the little brainwashed know-it-alls return to the churches to corrupt them as well.

Thanks for the post.

Lacy

[mike]

I have recently finished reading:

God's Holy Fire, by Kenneth Cukrowski, Mark Hamilton, & James W. Thompson
Conflict and Community in Corinth, by Ben Witherington III
Grace Unknown, by R. C. Sproul
False Intimacy, by Harry Schaumburg
How People Grow, by Henry Cloud & John Townsend
Evangelism & the Sovereignty of God, by J. I. Packer
Renovation of the Heart, by Dallas Willard


All of these are very good, but the first and last books listed are great.

Mike
:D

[Rocketman]

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--],I might shake things up a bit by these comments but I couldn't hold myself back from commenting.  So, here it goes...those of you who read F. Lagard Smith's book, Radical Restoration...do you really think that his approach is a healthy one for the church of Christ?  What is F. Lagard Smith afraid of?...that we might come to a greater realization of the power of the Spirit?  that our worship might be more emotionally demonstrative and those that think might have an impact on the church and its' functions?  Sorry this sounds so angry but I can't stomach so much of the stuff I hear him say or write.  Please tell me what you find appealing about his writings. only by grace, Julie[/quote]
Hey Julie,

I will try to address your questions.  Is Radical Restoration healthy?  Some of it is, however, in reality I doubt any churches of Christ will put much into practice from this as its non traditional.  I think there were some interesting ideas in the book, ie house churches, emphasis on Lords Supper, that are good.  However, the institutionalized church wont implement much of this as too many would be pushed beyond their comfort zones.  I think it is good to think about how we do church.  Thats why I think this is healthy. Its good to think about how we do things.  Too many in the cofc think we've got it all figured out yet we can lose sight of the importance if we arent continually self examining ourselves against scripture.

On your emotionally demonstrative comment, he seemed to argue in the book that that would be easier to accomplish in the house church environment than church buildings.  He said things could be more spontanious in that environment and seems to get at that.

What is Lagard afraid of?  I dont know what you mean.  He does guard some traditions like 4 part acappella while seems to let others go.

If Lagard makes you angry dont read him.  I read a broad range of things not just what I already think.  I want to hear a broad range of views so perhaps I approach reading differently than you.  I cant imagine getting angry over an author like  Lagard. I might think him or her wrong, but again I guess I just approach differing opinions differently.  

To me many of Lagard's books do stimulate thinking and even if you dont agree with everything thats ok.  I liked many of his books on moral issues such as When Choice Becomes God dealing with abortion and Sodoms Second Coming about the gay rights movement.  

Rocketman

[janine]

julie danley:

I really, really need to get my hands on more F. Lagarde Smith!!  From what I've read so far, if you look at it from the "lost-in-the-50's" point of view, he does look like he wants to be more grace-centered and less stagnant.  His stuff that I've read would look positively "liberal" to some of our brethren, and you feel it's calcified and legalistic... wow, the stuffy "conservative" side of our group would likely find you an absolutely flamingly incomprehensible liberal...

I heard some brethren branding Reuel Lemmons a liberal... when I met him and heard him preach a meeting, he came across to me as hopelessly conservative... I was a new Christian then... all I can remember from his lesson almost 20 years later is that he preached against wearing blue jeans to the assembly (and that was in the 80's, when jeans were neat and un-holey...)

So much is so subjective...

[marc]

Visited the OVC Bookstore today and picked up Come to the Table by John Mark Hicks.  I've heard good things about this, and I'm looking forward to reading it.  I've been reading as much as I can on the Lord's Supper the last couple of months, as I seem to have aquired a permanant position "presiding at the table".

[patriciaredstone]

I think the reason LaGard is so controversial is that he is just as frustrated and dissillusioned as the rest of us. The difference is that he writes.

[bobbyV]

Books, Books, and more books.  It seems that I will never read all the books!  But I will sure try  :)

What have I been reading lately?  I am currently reading David McCullough's rich biography of John Adams.  I am reading (with my wife) Harold Shank's new book Children Mean the World to God.

Other works that I recently finished include:

William Sheehan's Epic Moon: A History of Lunar Exploration in the Age of the Telescope.  (Great Book).

Benson Bobrick's As Wide as the Waters: The Story of the English Bible and the Revolution it Inspired.  This is a very readable presentation of the development of the KJV and its impact on democracy.  I think Alister McGrath's In The Beginning: The Story of the King James Bible is a superior book however.

I recently read John Mark Hicks book Come to the Table and LaGard Smith's Radical Restoration.  Hicks, my major professor, has written the best book on communion in the history of the Stone-Campbell Movement.  Smith, well honestly, I think this is his worst book to date.  Perhaps we could discuss that book in the Book Reviews section if some one wants to really get into it.

I have two new book in the wings that I am waiting to get into.  The first is a new -- and significant -- book edited by William Baker called Evangelicalism and The Stone-Campbell Movement.  The work is published by InterVarsity Press.  Scholars from the Independent Christian and Churches of Christ as well as four eminent evangelical scholars (Wayne House, Craig Bloomberg, Stan Grenz and Mark Knoll are all contributers).  The book focuses on conversion theology, the Holy Spirit and the doctrine of the church -- historic areas of difference between "restorationists" and evangelicals of a Calvinistic bent.  The book is significant because this is the first time this kind of "brotherly" dialogue has taken place.  I recommend the book to all.

The other book is also brand new.  It is edited by Michael Casey and Douglas Foster and is titled The Stone-Campbell Movement: An International Religious Tradition (University of Tennessee Press).  The work is a compilation of 26 essays most previously published though in obscure journals.   It is also a significant work.

I would also like to mention Leonard Allen's outstanding book Participating In God's Life.  This was a spiritual feast.

His Mark +
Bobby Valentine
[a href=\"mailto:bvalentine@dixie-net.com\"]bvalentine@dixie-net.com[/a]