Continued Deliverance

[Netchaplain]

"Being confident of this very thing, that He which hath begun a good work in you will perform (Greek: epiteleō – accomplish; finish) it until the day of Jesus Christ" (Phl 1:6). "Until the day of Jesus Christ" needs no interpretation, as it obviously refers to His second coming which is known as "the day of the Lord" (1Co 5:5; 2Co 1:14; 1Th 5:2; 2Pe 3:10); and the first on His to do list—resurrect the bodies of those who have been with Him and those yet living on the earth at that time, which is the last work of salvation completing with "the redemption of our body" (Rom 8:23).

The "good work" which God has started is "regeneration" (redemption), which must be first, as there can be no other work until this is established. What He began with is an implanted, fully-completed redemption at the point of faith or "since ye believed" (Act 19:2). After that, the "work" of God in us is that of "being conformed (by the Spirit - Rom 8:13; Eph 3:16)," in our walk "to the image of His Son (Ro 8:29); which walk has no effect on the established salvation, but rather manifests it as our faith continues to spiritually grow.

From rebirth to resurrection, our work (Luk 2:49) is our walk in "growing up into Him in all things" (Eph 4:15), and how much we are concerned with conformation (not confirmation) will determine how much God will be using us in drawing the lost and strengthening the saved (both are the work)!

It has been accurately stated that "the lost need saved, and the saved need delivered!" Delivered from what, one might inquire? Not from redemption, which was completed at rebirth, but from all oppositions which believers now have acquired, as listed in my opinioned order of significance: self (old man), Satan (uses the old self) and society (majority of mankind, i.e. the " many going to destruction" – Matthew 7:13).

The continually needed "deliverance" in the believer's walk or lifestyle, will depend on how much you are "casting all your care on Him" (1Pe 5:7). Notice the word "all," as this, I think, is the crux of the theme, for even a minor care can result in a major distraction (but never separation from union with God). "All" includes comforting and discomforting cares, and since being reborn we care more now than we ever have. So, everything for us rests in a heightened meaningfulness, as we learn more all the time how even that which is seemingly small is equally significant to all else.

I refer to something I read that I often like repeating, because I use it the most for encouragement: "When we are disappointed, we have trusted in the arm of flesh instead of the arm of God; for God never disappoints." I've found that this cause can always be traced back to thinking too much of self's good (Rom 12:3)!



To His Good Work in Us and Our Blessings to Him!

[4WD]

It has been accurately stated that "the lost need saved, and the saved need delivered!" Delivered from what, one might inquire? Not from redemption, which was completed at rebirth, but from all oppositions which believers now have acquired, as listed in my opinioned order of significance: self (old man), Satan (uses the old self) and society (majority of mankind, i.e. the " many going to destruction" – Matthew 7:13).

That, it seems to me, stands in direct opposition to your belief in OSAS.  How can there be any oppositions such as you suggest that could possibly threaten one's salvation?  And if those oppositions are no threat to salvation, then why the concern?

[Jaime]

Oh, I thought this was about a movie aequel to Deliverance

[Netchaplain]

That, it seems to me, stands in direct opposition to your belief in OSAS.  How can there be any oppositions such as you suggest that could possibly threaten one's salvation?  And if those oppositions are no threat to salvation, then why the concern?

Hi, and I always appreciate your sincere and probing comments! The point concerning the "oppositions" is that they delay or interfere (but never inhibit) with the next most important thing after redemption, which is our "walk after the Spirit." It's now all about the walk, which cannot interfere with being saved, because it has only to do with manifesting salvation to others and glorifying God.

[4WD]

Hi, and I always appreciate your sincere and probing comments! The point concerning the "oppositions" is that they delay or interfere (but never inhibit) with the next most important thing after redemption, which is our "walk after the Spirit." It's now all about the walk, which cannot interfere with being saved, because it has only to do with manifesting salvation to others and glorifying God.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding the point you are making.  What you call deliverance is, I think, what I see as sanctification.  It is not what God does to us; rather it is what God helps us do ourselves.  It is a life-long struggle in the life of the saint to live the life that we have been taught by God is good.  It is for that struggle that God has given us the Holy Spirit for aid and assistance.  I think this is something that too often is given too little emphasis.

[DaveW]

Oh, I thought this was about a movie aequel to Deliverance

You mean where Jon Voight and the local family all stand trial for murder and get life sentences; and the banjo player gets a Nashville recording contract?

[Jaime]

Where does the unfortunate Ned Beatty character fit in?

[DaveW]

Where does the unfortunate Ned Beatty character fit in?

Charged with obstruction and tampering with a dead body; but charges dropped for insufficient evidence.

[Jaime]

I was going to say he was the inventor of a very unfortunately named bean bag toss game.   

[Netchaplain]

Perhaps I am misunderstanding the point you are making.  What you call deliverance is, I think, what I see as sanctification.  It is not what God does to us; rather it is what God helps us do ourselves.  It is a life-long struggle in the life of the saint to live the life that we have been taught by God is good.  It is for that struggle that God has given us the Holy Spirit for aid and assistance.  I think this is something that too often is given too little emphasis.

I think we may mean the same thing but explaining it differently (matter of syntax). To be specific, I mean there are two deliverances: one from damnation, and one from that which we "wrestle" against (Eph 6:12), which is all that attempts to distract us from "walking after the Spirit," which God uses to draw the lost and glorify Him.

To me, the prior struggle is eternally settled once entered into; the latter has only to do with our growth from it. No visible growth means no regeneration, because one reborn cannot avoid seeking after the Spirit's enablement. What a believer does outside of his walk in the Spirit is that of the old man. I believe the Spirit uses the new man in us to follow Him, even though we will still think and do things with the old man. But merely thinking and doing things with our old man does not constitute us living after it because it's not what we desire. Only that which we desire after is what we are after, which is not "after the flesh," because we are no longer "in the flesh" (Ro 8:9).

[DaveW]

I was going to say he was the inventor of a very unfortunately named bean bag toss game.   

Inventor?  That practice had that name way (decades) before the bean bag game.

I have always REFUSED to call the game by that name.

[DaveW]

I think we may mean the same thing but explaining it differently (matter of syntax). To be specific, I mean there are two deliverances: one from damnation, and one from that which we "wrestle" against (Eph 6:12), which is all that attempts to distract us from "walking after the Spirit," which God uses to draw the lost and glorify Him.

Not sure I have ever heard salvation referred to as "deliverance." But I do see the point in calling it that. In the OT it was specifically used of escape from some physical peril or enemy.

In a quick view, I do not see it used in the NT for salvation either.

I DO see it used for escape of physical attack or circumstance; as well as from evil spiritual forces.

[Jaime]

Inventor?  That practice had that name way (decades) before the bean bag game.

I have always REFUSED to call the game by that name.

Yes the popular name is hard to even say for me given that term's meaning back in the day.

[Netchaplain]

Yes the popular name is hard to even say for me given that term's meaning back in the day.

Not that it's that significant, but Luke mentioned the term (4:18).

[DaveW]

Not that it's that significant, but Luke mentioned the term (4:18).

18    The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,
Because He anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor.
He has sent Me to proclaim release to the captives,
And recovery of sight to the blind,

? ? ? ? ? ?

The bean bag game name?  Where?

[Jaime]

That's not significant at all Netchaplain. Please explain!

[Netchaplain]

That's not significant at all Netchaplain. Please explain!

Not that significant concerning that fact of me pointing it out, that "deliverance" is mentioned as referring to redemption in Luke 4:18. It was in response to your comment, that you "never heard salvation referred to as "deliverance."

Thanks for your concern, I can see how that could have been misunderstood, considering the way I mentioned it.

[Jaime]

OK but it wasn't me that mentioned never hearing salvation as deliverance.

[Netchaplain]

OK but it wasn't me that mentioned never hearing salvation as deliverance.

I see, it was Dave W.

[Jaime]

I was talking about the UNFORTUNATE name for that bean bag toss game. You toss a bean bag to a sloped board with a hole in it to tally points.

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

I was talking about the UNFORTUNATE name for that bean bag toss game. You toss a bean bag to a sloped board with a hole in it to tally points.

Cornhole.  This usage is better than the former one, let's go with it.

[4WD]

To be perfectly honest, this is not where the OP topic should be going.  Whether or not I agree completely with him, I see it as an affront to a sincere attempt by Netchaplain to make a statement and make a point.

[Jaime]

What's the former one Jarrod? Cornhole is a terribly repulsive term in my younger vernacular.

[RB]

Not sure I have ever heard salvation referred to as "deliverance." But I do see the point in calling it that. In the OT it was specifically used of escape from some physical peril or enemy.

In a quick view, I do not see it used in the NT for salvation either.

I DO see it used for escape of physical attack or circumstance; as well as from evil spiritual forces.

I have ALWAYS understood salvation as a "deliverance", and the reason why are such scriptures as this:

Colossians 1:13,14~"Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:"

One more:

Luyke 4:18~"The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

There are others if you need them.

[DaveW]

I have ALWAYS understood salvation as a "deliverance", and the reason why are such scriptures as this: One more: There are others if you need them.

RB, those scriptures speak to me of deliverance from demonic oppression/possession, not salvation.

While related, they are not the same thing.

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

What's the former one Jarrod? Cornhole is a terribly repulsive term in my younger vernacular.

What I'm saying is that the modern meaning (a backyard game played with beanbags) is way better than the old one.

I figure if words like "gay" can be changed in meaning, this one can do.  Except, we're making it better instead of worse.