The history of how Sunday 'worship' came about.

[Amo]

Christians assembled together on the 1st day.  Prior to any Roman Catholic Church. 

The 1st day, the day of Resurrection of Christ. 

In the time of the early church, law keepers tried to return the practice to the church, and Hebrews and the Epistles of Paul castigated such a thing.

History lessons from and according to Texas Conservative. Never happened.

[Texas Conservative]

History lessons from and according to Texas Conservative. Never happened.

It did happen.  1st day in Acts 20.  Scripture.  I'm right once again.

[Rella]

It did happen.  1st day in Acts 20.  Scripture.  I'm right once again.

Yes you are....

I even told someone that you are 100% right.

[Jaime]

How many hours would we say Paul "preached" in this marathon session during this meal gathering.

[Texas Conservative]

How many hours would we say Paul "preached" in this marathon session during this meal gathering.

How many hours would we say Paul "preached" in this marathon session during this meal gathering.

Gathering is all that matters.  Church business was not done on the Sabbath in the synagogues.  It was done on the 1st day.

[Jaime]

How long did he preach the sermon that occurred on our Saturday evening in Jewish time reckoning?

[Texas Conservative]

How long did he preach the sermon that occurred on our Saturday evening in Jewish time reckoning?

1st day in Jewish time reckoning.  And it doesn't matter how long Paul preached. 

They gathered together.  On the 1st day.  Which is a historical example that Amo apparently wasn't aware of.

[Jaime]

There is no correct answer, what do you THINK? I guess 6 hours, sundown to midnight on our Saturday evening.  I can see that reasonably happening. (Not often in this day and time).

He started on our Saturday evening, when did he finish?

If Jesus' resurrection was why they gathered when they gathered,  wouldn't they have gathered around Sunrise the first day of  the week (our Sunday) or maybe mid morning to noon? Making Paul's "sermon" 12 to 18 hours, since he finished at midnight. Seems way too excessive.

I've shared my opinion about the start, length and finish of  the "sermon" what are some others? No membership in the SDA required.

[Cathlodox]

Christian assembly is commanded in the New Testament. Notice that the command here is that Christians assemble THEMSELVES together. This is NOT Christians assembling with practicing Jews at the Temple or a Synagogue - it's Christians assembling themselves with other Christians. 

Hebrews 10,23
Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

1 Cor 11, 16 shows that in Apostolic times Christians were indeed assembling themselves together and this would exclude meeting at the Temple or the Synagogue.

If you back up a little to 1 Corinthians 10 you'll see that the bread which the Apostles broke was in fact the Lord's Supper AKA Communion and as Texas Conservative said the Apostles did indeed gather together to break bread on the 1st day of the week - WHEN THEY Assembled themselves AS CHRISTIANS.

It's obvious this wasn't happening on the Sabbath because the Apostles were often arguing with the Jews in the Synagogue on the Sabbath day. Therefore, since Jews DIDN'T worship in the Synagogue on the Sabbath but instead gathered there for discussions, debates on the Law of Moses and obviously Christians couldn't worship Jesus as the Temple the book of Acts plainly says they gathered on the 1st day of the week.

Now, admittedly, this isn't as exciting as Ellen White's never ending Gnostic secrets about Lucifer and how he managed to put God into a legal pickle and as exciting as Michael the archangel fighting for the honor of Flesh Father's law while hordes of Aliens on other planets watched this UFC style fight - it is however what the Bible is telling us.

Christians worshiped on Sunday in the New Testament Church, it's as simple as that.

[Texas Conservative]

In Jewish reckoning of time, they assembled on the 1st day.  How long Paul spoke is irrelevant. 

That they didn't go til morning means nothing.  That they didn't wait until morning to start is also irrelevant. 

[Jaime]

It's relevant if it doesn't make sense. The only scenario that does make sense is the meal was an "after" sabbath gathering on our Saturday evening, the beginning of their first day to midnight our Saturday when Eutychus fell out the window. The other scenario of beginning on our Sunday morning supposedly in honor of Jesus' resurrection would have made for a nonsensical 12 to 18 hour sermon from morning of Sunday until midnight Sunday night.

I'm OK with Sunday worship,  this verse is a weak defense of that in my opinion.

[Cathlodox]

It's relevant if it doesn't make sense. The only scenario that does make sense is the meal was an an "after" sabbath gathering on our Saturday evening, the beginning of their first day to midnight our Saturday when Eutychus fell out the window. The other scenario of beginning on our Sunday in honor of Jesus' resurrection supposedly would have made for a nonsensical 12 to 18 hour sermon from morning of Sunday until midnight Sunday night.

I'm OK with Sunday worship,  this verse is a weak defense of that in my opinion.

It's actually a solid Scripture supporting Christians assembling on the 1st day of the week.

Acts 20, 7: On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight.

The Apostles of Christ were not sitting on their laurels taking it easy - they were out there spreading the Gospel with velocity - therefore, when they "came together", "assembled" it was for a purpose, the text states that's when they came together to "break bread". Adventist groups who advocate that the Lord's Supper was no real big deal always boast that this was just Jesus' close friends getting together for LUNCH. This is nonsense.

When the believers of Christ came together it was to WORSHIP Christ as God.

1st Corinthians 10, 16: The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

So, we know that the 1st day was the day on which the Apostles gathered to "break bread" and preach about Christ. Consider the following.

1st Corinthians 16, 2: Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

Paul is here telling the Corinthians to do the same thing he told all the Church of Galatia to do. These Christians were told that if they had gifts to give they were to have those gifts have those gifts ON THEM so that when Paul arrived [ at their Church service ] no one would have to run back home and get their gifts.

It's really quite simple, WHAT DAY is that SDA's put gifts into a collection basket and see whoever it is that officiates their Church service? It's SATURDAY!

In the case of the Churches in Galatia and Corinth the day that people assembled to put gifts in a collection basket was SUNDAY - the SAME DAY that they could expect to see Paul or some other authorized religious authority.

An observant Jew would NEVER carry money on the Sabbath day - that would be like asking a Jew to eat a pork chop. We know from Scripture that Law Abiding Jews DIDN'T / WOULDN'T worship at a Synagogue and we know that Christians COULD NOT worship Christ at the Temple in Jerusalem yet Christians were told not to fail to "ASSEMBLE THEMSELVES" together - the day on which they did this was SUNDAY.

In Addition to this the obsession with Saturday or Sabbath worship comes from the SDA's anti-Trinitarian DNA. The SDA's at the time of Ellen White believed that there was a CONTRAST between

The Sabbath God
This God was understood to be the Flesh Father (i.e. the ONLY GOD). This Flesh God was a single hominid Being with all the members, organs and parts a perfect man would have - this Pillar Doctrine was called "THE PERSONALITY OF GOD".

Vs.

The Sunday God
This God was taught to be ONE BEING which was 3 eternal, co-equal Person's (Father, Son & Holy Spirit). This ONE God was spirit who later (in the Person of The Son Incarnated and became man without ceasing to be God).

The SDA's believed if one accepted Flesh Father they would then be open to accepting the Sabbath.

Here are some official statements by the SDA's about the Sabbath God.

Sabbath Herald, November 14 1854
Again, where it is declared, that there are none good except the Father, it cannot be understood that none others are good in a relative sense; for Christ and angels, are good, yea perfect, in their respective sphere; but that the Father alone is supremely, or absolutely, good; AND that he alone is immortal in an absolute sense; that he alone is self-existent; and, that, consequently, every other being, however high or low, is absolutely dependent upon him for life; for being. This idea is most emphatically expressed by our savior himself; " For as the Father hath life in himself, so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself." John v, 26.

Sabbath Herald, Oct 8,1903
"The doctrine of the Personality of God IS the fundamental doctrine of the Scriptures..."
...""NEITHER was this image of God a mere concept; FOR the Bible declares that the Lord has PARTS, THE SAME AS the human body"."OUR EXISTENCE as a people is FOUNDED on a belief in the truths stated above".

The Trinity Doctrine was said to be the primary attacker of God's remnant people Bible doctrines. I believe it's important to place the SDA's Sabbath doctrine in it's context.

[Jaime]

The meal gathered for in Acts 20:7 was not necessarily a communion. Just like in Acts 2:46 when they were breaking bread daily together "EATING THEIR MEAT" or was every day the first day of the week?

Acts 2:46  KJV ¶ And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

I have been steeped in this "proof text" in my Church of Christ past. I never have  bought into this verse as a proof of Sunday worship. And as I said I am OK with Sunday worship, just not supported by this verse as I was pounded with for decades.

Cathlodox, how long do you say Paul's sermon was in Acts 20 and why? Maybe I missed something. We know he stopped at midnight. Did he start his "sermon" at sundown on our Saturday night or sometime on the morning of Sunday. I'm having a problem accepting a 12 to 18 hour ""sermon", but CAN be pursuaded in  accepting a 4 hour "sermon". I acknowledge the "sermon" began and ended on the first day of the week in Jewish reckoning, so there is no gotcha answer. This is strictly what do ya think and why?

[Cathlodox]

Jamie said: The meal gathered for in Acts 20:7 was not necessarily a communion. Just like in Acts 2:46 when they were breaking bread daily together "EATING THEIR MEAT" or was every day the first day of the week?

Hebrews 10, 25 commands believers to assemble "THEMSELVES" together. This assembly would exclude those who didn't believe Jesus was the Christ.

Of course they would come together often Jamie, the point I was making was that the day Christians put gifts into a basket is the day they assemble for Church - Saint Paul, the early Church Father and secular history affirm this took place on the 1st day of the week.

[Cathlodox]

Jamie said:Cathlodox, how long do you say Paul's sermon was in Acts 20 and why? Maybe I missed something. We know he stopped at midnight.
QUOTE
MORE...

I have a friend who came into town for a meeting and we met for lunch at a restaurant / bar in Seattle, we talked and had drinks until they closed at 2:00am. From there we went to Beth's cafe and saw the sun come up - talking about "Bible stuff".

If Christians in Galatia and Corinth were told on the 1st day of the week that they needed to have their offering on their person so Paul could have a central collection location you can take it to the bank that THAT was the day Christians assembled THEMSELVES together.

[Jaime]

Hebrews 10, 25 commands believers to assemble "THEMSELVES" together. This assembly would exclude those who didn't believe Jesus was the Christ.

Of course they would come together often Jamie, the point I was making was that the day Christians put gifts into a basket is the day they assemble for Church - Saint Paul, the early Church Father and secular history affirm this took place on the 1st day of the week.

I don't deny they gathered often, but in my fellowship the only justification that Acts 20 was a worship service was the asssertion that breaking bread indicated a communion. I don't agree with that.

[Jaime]

I have a friend who came into town for a meeting and we met for lunch at a restaurant / bar in Seattle, we talked and had drinks until they closed at 2:00am. From there we went to Beth's cafe and saw the sun come up - talking about "Bible stuff".

If Christians in Galatia and Corinth were told on the 1st day of the week that they needed to have their offering on their person so Paul could have a central collection location you can take it to the bank that THAT was the day Christians assembled THEMSELVES together.

My opinion is they chose the first day of the week for the collection is because it would have been forbidden to do so on the Sabbath. Not an indication of a worship service.

[Cathlodox]

My opinion is they chose the first day of the week for the collection is because it would have been forbidden to do so on the Sabbath. Not an indication of a worship service.

Are you suggesting that the Christians assembled themselves together on the Sabbath (7th day of the calendar they were using) and were enjoined by Apostolic command to assemble themselves together again the next day (Sunday) specifically for the collection of the Saints to be taken?

I have zero problem with people worshipping God on Saturday, the Catholic Church itself has more member in America attending Saturday Mass each week than there are SDA's in the United States. So Obviously there isn't a problem with going to Church on Saturday.

The Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church by any account is ancient and they assemble for Church each and every Saturday and again on Sunday - of the two days they claim Sunday is the more important day to attend the Liturgy than is Saturday but they are quite strict on attending Saturday. This tradition of theirs is clearly ancient. Is this more or less what you are suggesting?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OReqeJ-q6Kw&t=5s

[Jaime]

From what I have read a collection on the Sabbath would have been prohibited. Laying by in store on the first day would have been a solution. I doubt their collections looked much like ours with the gold or silver plates with the red velvet liners. Laying by in store might just have been simply holding a cache of money or supplies for the needy until after the sabbath. These were usually for special causes like the impoverished saints in Jerusalem NOT a weekly collection for rent or utilities and other overhead items like today.

For a period of time Sabbath observance was not unusual for Early Jewish Christians according to some historians, especially after thousands of years of Jewish traditions. Paul even areanged to leave Troaz and Ephesus in Acts 20 in time to get back to Jerusalem for Pentecost. Acts 20.16. I WOULDN'T imagine the transition to more or less universal Sunday observance was overnight.

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

My opinion is they chose the first day of the week for the collection is because it would have been forbidden to do so on the Sabbath. Not an indication of a worship service.

Maybe just believe what they themselves wrote...

Didache, chapter 14:
But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord: In every place and time offer to me a pure sacrifice; for I am a great King, says the Lord, and my name is wonderful among the nations.

There are other conflicting historical accounts. The consensus is that by thensecond century AD most Christian garhering were on Sunday.

[Texas Conservative]

My opinion is they chose the first day of the week for the collection is because it would have been forbidden to do so on the Sabbath. Not an indication of a worship service.

Don't get hung up on "worship service."

They assembled on the 1st day.  End of story.

[Jaime]

Don't get hung up on "worship service."

They assembled on the 1st day.  End of story.

They assembled on the Sabbath as well or uniquely on the sabbath by some historical accounts, finally most gatherings were on Sunday by the second century AD.

The gathering in Acts 20:7 occurred in the evening of their first day of the week or our  Sarurday night reasonably following a Sabbath gathering, with the candles in the upper room for a reason presumably expediency since everyon was around for a typical post Sabbath candle ceremony.  Paul preached until midnight when Eutychus fell out of the window a 6 hour sermon, not a 12 to 18 hour sermon. Odd that they honored Jesus' resurrection the night before he resurrected? One of those things that don't make sense I mentioned before.

[Texas Conservative]

They assemnled kn the Sabbath as well or uniquely on the sabbath by some historical accounts, finally most gatherings were on Sunday by the second century AD.

The gathering in Acts 20:7 occurred in the evening of their first day of the week or our  Sarurday night reasonably following a Sabbath gathering, with the candles in the upper room for a reason presumably expediency since everyon was around for a typical post Sabbath candle ceremony.  Paul preached until midnight when Eutychus fell out of the window a 6 hour sermon, not a 12 to 18 hour sermon. Odd that they honored Jesus' resurrection the night before he resurrected?

They assembled in the synagogues on the Sabbath with the Jews at the beginning.  Some of that was reasoning with the Jews about Jesus. 

It was not an assembly of the saints in the synagogue.

And then as Paul and Barnabas came to reach Gentiles, things changed even more.

In John 4, a heavily misunderstood passage by the CofC folks who only liked to use verse 24.

Jesus said "21 "Woman," Jesus replied, "believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth."

It is no longer about place and day.  The veil was torn.

If for some reason, you assembled with a group of Christians on a Tuesday because that was the only day all of you could get together, it would be equally as valid as a Saturday or a Sunday.

[Jaime]

Not the same. If those in Toaz were gathering for a service because of paul spoke tonthem, or because a meal was ate it is no proof of Sundaynworshio. They gathered after a oost Sabbath candle ceremony. It was simply a handy rime to gather fornPaul to speak to them, and I suggest it didn't have to be a sermon. The word translated preach there couls just as easily be translated reasoned with them even anout why he had to leave in time for the Pentecost in Jerusalem. We don't know.

[Cathlodox]

Not the same. If those in Toaz were gathering for a service because of paul spoke tonthem, or because a meal was ate it is no proof of Sundaynworshio. They gathered after a oost Sabbath candle ceremony. It was simply a handy rime to gather fornPaul to speak to them, and I suggest it didn't have to be a sermon. The word translated preach there couls just as easily be translated reasoned with them even anout why he had to leave in time for the Pentecost in Jerusalem. We don't know.

The early Christians who were being thrown to the lions because they were unwilling to compromise on their Christian faith were gathering / assembling on the 1st day of the week for "WORSHIP".

I don't think anyone would condemn the SDA's because they worship on Saturday - unfortunately with the SDA's it goes much deeper than that.

The Sabbath God is defined to be the Flesh Father, a single Being that is also ONE PERSON. This flesh Father has a digestive tract complete with all the plumbing a perfect human man has.

The Sunday God is defined by SDA's to be the God of the Trinitarians - this God is Luciferian in nature and seeks to subvert the Flesh Father and his creature Christ (AKA Michael the archangel).

The SDA's believe that going to Church on Sunday is following the great whore of Babylon and once the Pope calls his wayward daughters (identified as Protestants) home going to Church on Sunday will cause the adherent to receive the mark of the beast.

Because the Lutherans, Baptists, Methodists, etc. refused to accept the Sabbath god and rejected the 3rd Angels message of the Adventists in / about 1844 the SDA's believe the prayers of protestants are going to Lucifer who answers them and makes them believe they are following God.

By most accounts of educated Christians this is cultic teaching.

[Jaime]

I don't disagree with you about SDA's. I am not advocating being them.

As to TC's statement, Paul could have made the same talk to them at the same impromptu meal on a tuesday night and it wouldn't be proof that Tuesday worship is the new paradigm. Acts 20:7 supports for us a Saturday night gathering of some length after a common meal for some reason the night before the resurrection. Which is fine, but this passage in my opinion is not a strong argument for Sunday worship. I have many family members and friends that gather to worship on Sunday the day of resurrection, as I once did. I may well worship again on Sunday, but it won't be because of Acts 20:7, which has been my only assertion from the beginning.

[Cathlodox]

I don't disagree with you about SDA's. I am not advocating being them.

As to TC's statement, Paul could have made the same talk to them at the same impromptu meal on a tuesday night and it wouldn't be proof that Tuesday worship is the new paradigm. Acts 20:7 supports for us a Saturday night gathering of some length after a common meal for some reason the night before the resurrection. Which is fine, but this passage in my opinion is not a strong argument for Sunday worship. I have many family members and friends that gather to worship on Sunday the day of resurrection, as I once did. I may well worship again on Sunday, but it won't be because of Acts 20:7, which has been my only assertion from the beginning.

I take it you are a sort of Sabbatarian now? i.e. you worship on Saturday of the Gregorian Calendar? As I said previously, I have nothing against doing that - the Catholic Church holds Mass each Saturday and it fulfills the obligation to assemble.

[Jaime]

I take it you are a sort of Sabbatarian now? i.e. you worship on Saturday of the Gregorian Calendar? As I said previously, I have nothing against doing that - the Catholic Church holds Mass each Saturday and it fulfills the obligation to assemble.

What I am has nothing to do with the Gregorian calendar, Sorry. We do a home group bible study on Saturday mornings, and none of the group is or purports to be an SDA. They are all people who have happened to worship together at the same Church of Christ congregation. We study a lot, we pray a lot, we sing, we eat together, we take communion, and we do things together as the community together for entertainment as well as service projects. Both my daughters and their families including grown grandkids all go to traditional Ba0tist churches and I am very proud of them. They all haven't attempted an intervention on Nana and Papa yet.  Or vice versa!

[Rella]

I take it you are a sort of Sabbatarian now? i.e. you worship on Saturday of the Gregorian Calendar? As I said previously, I have nothing against doing that - the Catholic Church holds Mass each Saturday and it fulfills the obligation to assemble.

And our local Korean Methodists hold their services on Friday nightsat 7PM.

Loks like "they" got the Sabbath on the Sabbath

[Texas Conservative]

What I am has nothing to do with the Gregorian calendar, Sorry. We do a home group bible study on Saturday mornings, and none of the group is or purports to be an SDA. They are all people who have happened to worship together at the same Church of Christ congregation. We study a lot, we pray a lot, we sing, we eat together, we take communion, and we do things together as the community together for entertainment as well as service projects. Both my daughters and their families including grown grandkids all go to traditional Ba0tist churches and I am very proud of them. They all haven't attempted an intervention on Nana and Papa yet.  Or vice versa!

Are you no longer part of that CofC anymore or is this extra?  Just curious.

As far as what you are doing, that's a Romans 14/Col 2, and Acts 2:46 thingy.  Meaning, you aren't doing anything wrong.

I do contend the SDA's are wrong because they tie Sabbath keeping to salvation/evidence of the true remnant church, and the mark of the beast.

[Cathlodox]

What I am has nothing to do with the Gregorian calendar, Sorry. We do a home group bible study on Saturday mornings, and none of the group is or purports to be an SDA. They are all people who have happened to worship together at the same Church of Christ congregation. We study a lot, we pray a lot, we sing, we eat together, we take communion, and we do things together as the community together for entertainment as well as service projects. Both my daughters and their families including grown grandkids all go to traditional Ba0tist churches and I am very proud of them. They all haven't attempted an intervention on Nana and Papa yet.  Or vice versa!

Ok, thanks for the clarification. So, I'd take it that you are not one who believes that Ellen White was a true Biblical prophet? You don't follow any of the SDA distinctive Doctrines such as the belief God doesn't want you to eat pork, shimp and things an observant Jew or Muslim would refrain from eating?

[Jaime]

I am not dogmatic about  the food instructions, but I DO believe kosher eating is good for us. I try to refrain from my natural draw to bacon and such,  not in trying to BE Kosher or Jewish, but that I believe God's food instructions are for our good and for blessing us, but not a salvation issue for us. I knew a guy who several years ago died from a bacteria in some oysters he ate. Even if I weren't aware of the food instructions in the OT, consuming a bottom dwelling shellfish or crustacean WOULD cross my mind as would a thick slab of bear meat that some homesteaders in Alaska might eat as potentially problematic and not a blessing.

As to Ellen White, not even close to a prophetess in my book. Maybe as close as Benny Hinn is to a faith healer waving his jacket over his head as the comoseum crowd is slain in the spirit as his whirling jacket points toward them inducing  a spontaneous wave like at at a football stadium.

[Cathlodox]

I am not dogmatic about  the food instructions, but I DO believe kosher eating is good for us. I try to refrain from my natural draw to bacon and such,  not in trying to BE Kosher or Jewish, but that I believe God's food instructions are for our good and for blessing us, but not a salvation issue for us. I knew a guy who several years ago died from a bacteria in some oysters he ate. Even if I weren't aware of the food instructions in the OT, consuming a bottom dwelling shellfish or crustacean WOULD cross my mind as would a thick slab of bear meat that some homesteaders in Alaska might eat as potentially problematic and not a blessing.

As to Ellen White, not even close to a prophetess in my book. Maybe as close as Benny Hinn is to a faith healer waving his jacket over his head as the comoseum crowd is slain in the spirit as his whirling jacket points toward them inducing  a spontaneous wave like at at a football stadium.

More death and illness is attributed to the lowly Chicken than all the oysters, pork products / unclean animals combined.

Would you consider yourself a Trinitarian - as defined by the Nicene Creed? The reason I ask is I've noticed that faith traditions that abstain from foods listed in the Old Testament as unclean to the Children of Israel are definitely outside Trinitarianism.

 

[Jaime]

Yes, I am a Trinitarian.

I would  assume Messianic Jews are Trinitarian since they believe in God the Son. I don't know for sure though.

[Cathlodox]

Yes, I am a Trinitarian.

I would  assume Messianic Jews are Trinitarian since they believe in God the Son. I don't know for sure though.

Mormons believe in God the Son...
...As do SDA's.

Neither are Trinitarian.

My guess is if you reject the teaching that Christ could have sinned and lost His salvation you likely are. It's an interesting topic to me so when I can I always ask. Thanks for being up front :)