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Is there a present burning hell where departed souls of the wicked are sent?

Started by RB, Tue Dec 07, 2021 - 03:55:09

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Reformer

E n d l e s s  T o r t u r e
 
[A valid concept?]

  As my older readers know, in times past I have given my attention to the concept of eternal punishment vs. endless conscious torture, as it relates to the ungodly. There are numerous scriptures that speak of eternal or everlasting destruction for those who knowingly reject the God of creation. Some of these scriptures are cited at the end of this column. One brother, who seems to have researched this subject rather extensively, recently wrote:

_______

    "It seems you are basing this study only on the English word 'destruction' and its definition, and not on the Greek. The scriptures you referenced actually use two different Greek words that can be translated destroy or destruction. Peter and Jude use the word apollumi (2 Peter 3 & Jude 7).
 
    "Paul, in 2 Thessalonians 1, uses the word olethros. Olethros in the Greek means to destroy, kill, ruin, destruction. The fundamental thought is not annihilation by any means, but unavoidable distress and torment.
   
    "In Mark 9:43-48, Jesus describes an unquenchable fire where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched. Why will the worm and the fire go on forever if the punishment of those cast therein is temporary? By the way, you said the fire in Jude 7 is temporary, but Jude describes it as an 'eternal fire.' "

________

    Here are my observations. The burning of Sodom and Gomorrah is described as "eternal fire" (Jude 7), or, we might say, unquenchable fire, like Mark 9:43-48, yet we know that fire is not still burning. When the results were concluded, the fire ceased. The results will never cease being results. But the fire itself ceased long ago. 
 
    According to my reader's understanding, the fire in Jude 7, as pertaining to Sodom and Gomorrah, is still burning. If this is not his position, and I assume it isn't, because we all know that fire does not continue to burn, the meaning then would be the results of that fire are endless, not the fire itself. Just so with Mark 9:43-48. The results of the state of punishment for the ungodly are continual, never-ending, not the punishment itself.
 
    We agree the ungodly will be punished. There is zero controversy here. The controversy arises when we teach that God operates a torture chamber and those inside it will never be relieved of their excruciating misery. My God's nature is not one of a torturer.
 
    Let it be said that Satan is real. Hell is real. Eternal or everlasting punishment is real. But not endless torture.  God is a God of mercy and compassion. He is not a Master Torturer. Nothing could be as cruel and brutal as subjecting someone to excruciating torture forever. I tell you plainly, this is not the God I know. 
 
    If an ungodly friend of mine was being sunjected to torture and I had the power to stop it, I could not stand by and allow it to continue endlessly. That would be like an executioner pulling the switch on an Electric Chair to execute a murderer endlessly, during which time he would be kept alive.
 
    Yes, he deserves to be punished for his crime. But once justice has been served, out of mercy the punishment must end. The God we know is merciful beyond our comprehension. Our level of mercy does not even compare to His. So in the scriptures, as I understand them, "eternal destruction" should be taken at face value, which, in the longrun, will be annihilation, not uninterrupted torture.
 
    "They [the ungodly] will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His might" (2 Thess 1:9).
 
    What manner of punishment will be meted out to the ungodly? First of all, I do not believe literal fire and brimstone will remain after this physical, palpable universe has ended. I'm inclined to believe the "fire and brimstone" the ungodly will suffer prior to annihilation will manifest itself when they look upon the glory of that eternal, hallowed and stately "palace" in heaven, with all of its exquisite splendor, and realize what they have foregone because of their rejection of God. That, I think, will be their "fire and brimstone," followed by eternal destruction or annihilation. The results of their suffering and annihilation will be forever. 
 
    Jude speaks of those in Sodom and Gomorrah who suffered "the punishment of eternal fire" when their cities and their sexually perverted inhabitants were destroyed (Jude 7). But was the fire itself eternal, never-ending? Is it still burning? Of course not. The fire was not meant to be endless, only the results. And so it will be with the ungodly. Their punishment will be forever, never-ending, as the results will endure throughout eternity.

Hobie

Quote from: Choir Loft on Tue Feb 08, 2022 - 08:01:02you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die." - Genesis 2:17

Do we not know what the word DEATH means?

"Death" means cessation of ALL life. 

The punishment Jesus spoke of was the Second Death - eviction/separation from God.   According to the Bible God is the author of life.  If God = life, then separation from God is NOT life.  It is death.  Please visit your local cemetery to understand the meaning of death.  It is written there on a thousand tombstones.  Comic book definitions do not apply in the cemetery.  Death means all life ends - forever. 

FIRE is that which consumes.  There are two types of fire.  One type partially burns - as in Sunday afternoon BBQ.  The other type consumes completely with nothing left, not even ashes.  The second type - the Second Death - is that which consumes completely.  Nothing is left of that which it touches.

The punishment Jesus spoke of was irreversible death of body mind and spirit of those who demonstrate rebellion against Him.  It does NOT refer to continual conscious torment.  The 'sentence' of death is permanent without parole review or second chances.  Consider the destiny of the kingdom of Sodom.  Their fate was a demonstration of God's eternal punishment of those who lived in that wicked place.  The citizens of Sodom are permanently dead forever.  They won't come back in any form whatsoever.  Sodom was a killing ground, not everlasting torture.

Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire. - Jude 1:7

The fire that fell upon the five cities of the kingdom of Sodom DESTROYED everyone and all their works.  None survived.  As of today there would be no evidence of their ever having lived upon the earth except for the example provided in God's Word.   

Today we are warned that God's intention to destroy SINNERS will be permanent.  God kills.  God does not torture.  The fire is permanent.  The destruction is irreversible forever (as with Sodom).  Death is permanent in that life ceased forever.   

Finally the Bible states immortal life is given to the saints.  NOWHERE does the Bible promise eternal life to SINNERS - even in a non-existent torture chamber.

The idea of eternal torment is a myth promoted by the Roman Catholic church, which it adapted from Greek and Roman myth.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...


Better than any sermon I've heard on it...

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