3Rs~ A question about Josephus, the historian

[Rella]

Hi 3Rs,  It has been a while.

I was looking for something else when this came up and figured you would have an explanation.

Josephus was an eye witness during the 70AD time span. He wrote "Antiquities of the Jews " around 93 or 94 CE

Why then did he avoid the subject of Jesus in 70AD, for although not a Christian, he did make a lot of future reference about Him for another time.


https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/endtimeforum/josephus-on-the-supposed-preterist-70ad-2nd-coming-t1627.html

So it seems that from a Preterist point of view, that Josephus is who we should be examining; EVEN THOUGH HE WAS NOT EVEN A CHRISTIAN; he should be given more
credibility about the coming of Christ than Polycarp, Papius, and Ignatius; who John the Apostle himself taught?

Ok...let's take a moment, and consider what Josephus wrote concerning the Second Coming of Jesus Christ in 70AD.

I will list below; every single passage that Josephus wrote concerning Jesus Christ; so that we can pick out the ones in which Josephus revealed to us that the
Second Coming of Jesus did infact occur in 70AD.

Surely Josephus wrote somewhere in his writings that Jesus did infact return in 70AD; and those specific writings will be the ones that will most likely bring any open minded futurists to the point of considering the merits of Preterism.

( The entire works of Josephus can be downloaded and reviewed at: URL www.ccel.org/j/josephus/w...sephus.zip )

1) Flavius Josephus, The Wars of the Jews - Books 1 - 7

www.ccel.org/j/josephus/w...SEPHUS.HTM

Josephus mentions the name 'Jesus' 0
times.


Josephus mentions the name 'Christ' 0
times.

2) The Life Of Flavius Josephus, his autobiography

www.ccel.org/j/josephus/w...tobiog.htm

Josephus mentions the name 'Jesus' 0
times.

Josephus mentions the name 'Christ' 0
times.

4) Flavius Josephus Against Apion - Book One.

www.ccel.org/j/josephus/w...pion-1.htm

Josephus mentions the name 'Jesus' 0
times.


Josephus mentions the name 'Christ' 0
times.

5) Flavius Josephus Against Apion - Book Two.


www.ccel.org/j/josephus/w...pion-1.htm

Josephus mentions the name 'Jesus' 0
times.

Josephus mentions the name 'Christ' 0
times.

7) Flavius Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews - Books 1 - 20


www.ccel.org/j/josephus/w...SEPHUS.HTM

Book 18 Chapter 3

Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the
truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the
principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, (9) those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the
third day; (10) as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from
him, are not extinct at this day.

Book 18 Chapter 20

Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrim of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called
Christ, whose name was James, and some others, [or, some of his companions]; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he
delivered them to be stoned:

***Notice to this point, we have examined 7 of the 8 extant collections of writings that are available to us as written by Josephus. As of yet, we have only
found one work that references Jesus Christ, and in it, no reference to His second coming, or anything that lends any support to the view of Preterism. There
is one last remaining work to cite, however, than Josephus does give us some very important insite to Christ.

8) Josephus's Discourse To The Greeks Concerning Hades - Chapter 6.

www.ccel.org/j/josephus/works/hades.htm

"For all men, the just as well as the unjust, shall
be brought before God the word: for to him hath the Father committed all judgment :
and He, in order to fulfill the will of his Father,
shall come as Judge, whom we call Christ
. For Minos and Rhadamanthus are not the judges, as you Greeks do suppose, but he whom God and the Father hath glorified: CONCERNING WHOM
WE HAVE ELSEWHERE GIVEN A MORE PARTICULAR ACCOUNT, FOR THE SAKE OF THOSE WHO SEEK AFTER TRUTH. This person, exercising the righteous judgment of the Father
towards all men, hath prepared a just sentence for every one, according to his works; at whose judgment-seat when all
men, and angels, and demons shall stand, they will send forth one voice, and say, JUST IS THY
JUDGMENT; the rejoinder to which will bring a just sentence upon both parties, by giving justly
to those that have done well an everlasting fruition; but allotting to the lovers of wicked works eternal punishment. To these
belong the unquenchable fire, and that without end, and a certain fiery worm, never dying, and not destroying the body, but continuing its eruption out of the
body with never-ceasing grief: neither will sleep give ease to these men, nor will the night afford them comfort; death will not free them from their
punishment, nor will the interceding prayers of their kindred profit them; for the just are no longer seen by them, nor are they thought worthy of remembrance.
But the just shall remember only their righteous actions, whereby they have attained the heavenly kingdom, in which there is no
sleep, no sorrow, no corruption, no care, no night, no day measured by time, no sun driven in his course along the circle of heaven by necessity, and measuring
out the bounds and conversions of the seasons, for the better illumination of the life of men; no moon decreasing and increasing, or introducing a variety of
seasons, nor will she then moisten the earth; no burning sun, no Bear turning round [the pole], no Orion to rise, no wandering of innumerable stars
. The earth will not then
be difficult to be passed over, nor will it he hard to find out the court of paradise, nor will
there be any fearful roaring of the sea, forbidding the passengers to walk on it; even that will be made easily passable to the just, though it will not be
void of moisture. Heaven will not then
be uninhabitable by men, and it will not be impossible to discover the way of ascending thither.
The earth will not be
uncultivated, nor require too much labor of men, but will bring forth its fruits of its own accord, and will be well
adorned with them. There will be no more generations of
wild beasts, nor will the substance of the rest of the animals shoot out any more; for it will
not produce men, but the number of the righteous will continue, and never fail, together with righteous angels, and spirits [of God], and with his word, as a
choir of righteous men and women that never grow old, and continue in an incorruptible state, singing hymns to God, who hath advanced them to that happiness,
by the means of a regular institution of life; with whom the whole creation also will lift up a perpetual hymn from corruption,
to incorruption, as glorified by a splendid and pure spirit. It will not then be restrained by a bond of necessity, but with a
lively freedom shall offer up a voluntary hymn, and shall praise him that made them, together with the angels, and spirits, and men now freed from all
bondage."

****Notice how Josephus writes in future expectancy of not only mankind, but the entire creation as it looks forward to Heavenly Kingdom; and the time where
wild beasts will be no more, the earth will bring forth uncultivated fruit again, man will intermingle with the angels, the sun, moon, and seasons will be
gone, and all of the wicked will have been cast into the unquenchable fire.

So out of all of Josephus writings, we have two writings that mention Jesus Christ; one in simply a short passing biography of His earthly existance leading up
to His crucifixion and resurrection and mentioning His believers along with an indirect mention of Him in reference to His brother James; and this last
reference which shows a future expectancy of final judgement when He "shall come as Judge, whom we call Christ"; which is clearly a future and yet to
be fulfilled event.

In closing; Josephus has spoken. His opinion and eye-witness to the Second Coming of Jesus Christ in 70AD has been given.

Josephus has spoken of Jesus Christ twice for us; and neither were of a past Second Coming of Jesus to Jerusalem during the seige of Jerusalem in 70AD.

It appears, that the Preterist view, has made Josephus out to be someone he is not; and has made him out to be credited for writing something that he never
wrote.

Based on Josephus letter on Hades, the only writing that Josephus gave us concerning the coming of Jesus Christ; all we can possibly draw from him is that
Josephus, the non-Christian historian; was a fururist too!

I guess the Apostle John must have been correct when he taught Polycarp, Papias, Ignatius, Ireneaus, and Hippolytus about the post-70AD, future coming of
Christ.

[3 Resurrections]

Hi Rella, Yep, it's been a while since you and I exchanged comments, but busy as I am, I still check in and read the latest entries on this forum a couple times a day.   

As for Josephus, your link did not bring it up, but he also wrote about John the Baptist in a very approving way, with sympathy for John the Baptist's murder by Herod. 

Also, if you remember, I am in agreement that we today are expecting a coming of the Lord in our future - but that it will be His third coming and not the second, which occurred back on the AD 70 year's Pentecost day.   

Josephus apparently was in company with Titus at his Jerusalem encampment around that time, with Titus using Josephus on occasion to plead with his fellow Jews to surrender to the Romans before it was too late and the city and its temple were demolished.

The author of your link seems to think that if Josephus did not write about the AD 70 bodily return of Christ, that this means it didn't happen.  This disregards the exact day which Daniel prophesied for the day of Christ's second coming and the resurrection which Daniel would share.   Daniel was very specific that it would take place 1,335 days after two events had occurred during the very same season of time on the calendar;  #1, the season for the taking way of a daily sacrifice, and #2, the abomination of desolation being set up (Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, according to Luke 21:20). 

Both of these two prophesied events occurred in the same season by early October in AD 66, which jumpstarted the 1,335-days.  After this startup in early October, it was a countdown of Daniel's prophesied 1,290 days until Titus showed up at Jerusalem just after Passover week had begun.  Then 45 days later, Pentecost day in AD 70 arrived, with the resurrection which Daniel shared in at the end of those days.   

Those who say that this second-coming of Christ and this resurrection event was going to be seen by everyone on the planet simultaneously (including Josephus) should think again.  Jesus was still in His glorified, resurrected human body form when He returned as the "Son of Man", with the capability of being selectively visible to whom He wanted to reveal Himself.   The "ten thousands" of His holy angels who accompanied Him at His return were not necessarily visible to the human observing eye either.  (Example: Peter in prison seeing the angel, but the prison guards did not.) 

Neither were the resurrecting saints necessarily visible to the observing eye.  Their glorified, resurrected bodies would have been changed "in the twinkling of an eye".  This was not a slow-motion event that took hours to unfold.  In their gathering and ascent to heaven with Christ, these resurrected saints would have had the same option of invisibility as the newly-resurrected Christ we read about who was able to vanish from view instantly at his own volition.

One thing most do not consider: the effect on ordinary mankind of Christ's full glory manifested to them.  John "fell at His feet as dead" with a vision of Christ in His heavenly glory.  Daniel likewise lost all strength and fell over, becoming speechless with the vision of the Heavenly Revelator.  Paul was physically blinded by his view of the glorified Christ on the way to Damascus.  Even the sight of the angel of the Lord at Christ's tomb made the soldiers shake and "become as dead men".   If Christ had granted to all mankind on the planet an unobstructed view of Himself when manifesting His full glory at His second coming in AD 70, everyone on the planet would have dropped dead at once. 

Revelation 1:7  did not say that all on the planet would see Christ's return - it only testified that "every eye" which saw the returning Christ would be namely "those who pierced Him".  Those of that generation of Jews who slew Christ and who happened to catch a glimpse from Jerusalem of His return at evening to the Mount of Olives either ended up dead in the city of starvation, plague, the sword, or they went into captivity to die in arenas or under slavery.

Neither you nor I need Josephus to give written testimony of seeing the returning Christ.  It is enough that Josephus was one of the characters fighting against the Lamb in Revelation.  Whether Josephus realized it or not, he was one of Revelation 17:12-18's ten so-called "kings" on the Scarlet Beast who hated the whore that apostate Jerusalem had become, and whom God used to accomplish His purpose in bringing judgment on the nation. 

[Rella]

Well, that certainly would explain those who say Jesus was invisible at this coming in 70AD. No one could have been  a witness.

I am not sure why my link above did not work for you..

Here it is again... https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/endtimeforum/josephus-on-the-supposed-preterist-70ad-2nd-coming-t1627.html... though I pretty much copied and pasted it all in my post.

[3 Resurrections]

Oh, the link came through alright for me to read...not a problem.  I just meant to say that the link did not include a mention of Josephus's written comments about John the Baptist.  For those who might doubt that such a character as the forerunner of Christ never existed, Josephus would provide a first-century eyewitness of John the Baptist's existence.

And I didn't say no one was a witness of Christ's coming.  For one example, Christ foretold at His trial before the high priest that Caiphas would see Him seated at the right hand of the Father and coming in clouds of glory. And since Caiphas was dead before AD 70, this means Caiphas saw the returning Christ in his own "resurrection to damnation".

We know that Josephus recorded many of the miraculous signs that accompanied that period of time approaching Christ's AD 70 return.  You probably remember him mentioning the armies in the sky over Jerusalem in AD 66.  This was at the time the Zealot rebellion was launching an independent kingdom nation of Israel (the Scarlet Beast).

Curiously enough, the book of Maccabees records this same vision of armies in the sky also occurring at the time the Maccabees were fighting off Antiochus Epiphanes'  army, and establishing an independent kingdom nation of Israel which endured for almost 80 years.  (This is when that Scarlet Beast "Was" for a time.  After those 80 years, it "Is not" in existence for a time after it was put under tribute to Rome.  Then it was soon "about to arise" to existence again in AD 66 with the Zealot rebellion in John's days when he was writing Revelation in AD 59/60).

Even if Josephus was not a direct eye-witness himself of the returning Christ, he recorded many, many of the predicted events immediately surrounding that return of Christ.