WHY DOES FAITH NOT COME TO ALL WHO HEAR GOD’S WORD?

[Rella]

Thought this was interesting for an explanation. I am not agreeing or disagreeing but just presenting for consideration.


https://www.reddit.com/r/OldPaths/comments/12mvek6/why_does_faith_not_come_to_all_who_hear_gods_word/

Michael Jeshurun...a brother from India

"So then Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God"! [Romans 10:17]

All men have some kind of faith or they could not possibly live here on earth. Even an insignificant act as sitting on a chair requires faith! You decide to sit on it because you have the faith that the chair will hold you. When your friend offers you a drink you drink because you have the faith that it is safe, and so on. But the faith which saves a man is something different altogether! It is called the 'Faith of God's elect'! [Titus 1:1] And the Apostle says that "All men have not (this) faith"! [2Thes 3:2].

The Bible speaks of this faith as something which belongs to Christ, for it speaks of "the faith of Christ" "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the FAITH OF CHRIST, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified"! [Gal 2:16]

This saving faith is God's property and is given as a gift to His chosen ones! And Jesus is spoken of as the AUTHOR and the FINISHER of this faith! [Heb 12:2] "Now faith "cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God". [Rom 10:17] Notice that faith 'cometh' from somewhere. It is not an inherent product of fallen nature! So WHERE does it come from? It comes from above! "A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from Heaven"! [John 3:27] And again, "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from ABOVE, and cometh down from the Father of lights"! [James 1:17]

But here is the question to ask - "If faith 'cometh' by hearing the word of God, why does it not come to ALL who hear it"? [Rom 10:17]

Because all refuse to believe, is the usual answer given! But that is only one side of the truth! Yes ALL refuse to believe, but the fact remains that some do! In what way are these who believe different from those who do not? The answer is found in Paul's rhetorical question - "For WHO maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not RECEIVE? Now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it"? [1Cor 4:7]

The reason why faith does not come to the majority is because, to the majority the Word of God comes in WORD ONLY! It is not accompanied by power, and the Holy Spirit and much assurance! Hear what the Apostle wrote to the Thessalonians - "Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God. For our gospel came not unto you in WORD ONLY, but also in POWER, and in the HOLY GHOST, and in much ASSURANCE"! [1Thes 1:4,5]

How did the apostle know that the Thessalonian Christians were 'elected' by God to salvation? Why, by this- that when he initially preached to them, the word of God came not just as a dead word from the Bible, but the Word was accompanied by power, the Holy Ghost and much assurance!

Now this is the way it is through all the ages! To God's chosen it is GIVEN to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of God by the gift of faith, but to the rest IT IS NOT GIVEN! [Matt 13:11]

God is absolutely sovereign and does not owe fallen man ANYTHING! He can give to one what He withholds from many and none can say unto Him "what doest Thou"?! So He has mercy on whom He will and whom He will He hardens! [Rom 9:18]

So ultimately, saving faith, repentance and perseverance which are all required for salvation are the gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast! Salvation is "not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God who showeth MERCY! [Rom 9:16]!

And all the praise and glory to God alone! Amen!

[Jaime]

Good article Rella. In my opinion Godly sorrow plays into this as with the 3000 at Pentecost who heard Peter's sermon. Their hearing with receiving hearts produced Godly sorrow unto repentance and not worldly sorrow.

[Jaime]

2Corinthians 7:9-10

9 As it is, I rejoice, not because you were grieved, but  because you were grieved unto repenting. For you felt a godly sorrow, so that you suffered no loss through us.
10 For Godly sorrow produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly sorrow produces death.

[Texas Conservative]

What causes Godly sorrow?  Why you and not someone else?

Romans 11:5-10
[5]In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God's gracious choice.
[6]But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
[7]What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened;
[8]just as it is written, "God gave them a spirit of stupor, Eyes to see not and ears to hear not, Down to this very day."
[9]And David says, "Let their table become a snare and a trap, And a stumbling block and a retribution to them.
[10]"Let their eyes be darkened to see not, And bend their backs forever."

[Jaime]

Israel was blinded for a time FOR a purpose.

Romans 11:11 So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather, through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, SO AS to make Israel jealous.

The condition of the heart is critical for the Spirit to impart Godly Sorrow.

[DaveW]

Hebrews 4:2
For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also; but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard.

[Jaime]

https://blog.tms.edu/sorrow?hs_amp=trueQ

So repentance begins with an intellectual recognition and confession of sin, but it does not end there. There is also a "change of heart"—an emotional component in which the genuine believer mourns over having sinned against the God whom he loves. That is why in the classic psalm of repentance, Psalm 51, David says, "The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; A broken and a contrite heart, O God, You will not despise."

Confessing sin is NOT repentance of sin.

[Rella]

Hebrews 4:2
For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also; but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard.

Yes, but why not?

Why when given good news do people act as if they have been deaf. This is not just true og God things but in everyday life.
Many times I have been bursting to give good news to someone and it has been met with a so what attitude, which too often I could not understand.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God... and if I messed that up I am not double checking myself.

"but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith"  Certainly seems cut and dried except we are told that Faith comes by hearing first... therefore the word they heard could not have been by faith..... Just seems a contradiction.

[4WD]

Thought this was interesting for an explanation. I am not agreeing or disagreeing but just presenting for consideration.


https://www.reddit.com/r/OldPaths/comments/12mvek6/why_does_faith_not_come_to_all_who_hear_gods_word/

But almost the whole of that argument depends upon the following:

The Bible speaks of this faith as something which belongs to Christ, for it speaks of "the faith of Christ" "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the FAITH OF CHRIST, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified"! [Gal 2:16]

This saving faith is God's property and is given as a gift to His chosen ones!.........

And that is completely wrong.  The Bible does not speak of the "faith of Christ". That is derived from a very poor interpretation.  We are not justified by the faith of Jesus Christ. We are justified by our FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST.

[Jaime]

I agree 4WD. That was an error, I believe on the part of KJV and some others.To some people that is impossible that the KJV is in error on anything. Our faith IN Christ is what appropriates God's saving grace.

[Rella]

But almost the whole of that argument depends upon the following:
And that is completely wrong.  The Bible does not speak of the "faith of Christ". That is derived from a very poor interpretation.  We are not justified by the faith of Jesus Christ. We are justified by our FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST.

Which I agree with. WE ARE JUSTIFIED BY OUR FAITH.

And is the very reason I said I was not agreeing or disagreeing because there are those who believe that other way.

Let me  speak of what is the most confusing in that given article.

I am reposting it as a quote here so I can make notes throughout of the things that seem contradictory to being justified by our own faith but which are from the bible.

Michael Jeshurun...a brother from India

"So then Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God"! [Romans 10:17]

    This certainly is of clear understanding. ONLY so long as what we hear from the Word of God coincides with our belief.

     Four translations for comparison. Oldest to newest....

          1. English /Greek Interlinear. So then, the faith comes by hearing, and the hearing through the word of God.

          2. KJV.  So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

          3. NASB 95.  So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

          4. LSV. So then faith [is] by a report, and the report through a saying of God,

          These certainly would indicate that the  faith we have comes to us after we have heard.

          One of the easiest understandable explanations of this comes fro Got Questions. Straight forward and simple.

               https://www.gotquestions.org/faith-comes-by-hearing.html           
               Romans has the theme of faith (Romans 1:16–17). Paul addresses the process by which faith is produced in the
               heart in Romans 10:17: "Faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about
               Christ."

               The first eight chapters of Romans contends with the ideas of positional salvation through faith (Romans 1:18—
               5:21), the process of growing in holiness through faith (Romans 6:1—8:17), and the future glorification Christians
               will receive because of faith (Romans 8:18–39). Chapters 9—11 of Romans works from the implied question, "Has
               God then failed to fulfill His promises to Israel?"

               It is within this context that Paul gives the reason for the Israelites' lack of salvation; namely, they lack faith
               (Romans 9:32; 10:4). The Israelites are saved through faith in Christ, just like the Gentiles. Eternal salvation does
               not distinguish between Gentile or Jew but is received through belief in the person and work of Jesus Christ (Romans
               10:12–13; 1 Corinthians 15:1–8; Galatians 3:23–29).

               In the lead-up to the statement that faith comes by hearing, Romans 10:14–16 explains the requirements for a
               series of actions to take place. In order for one to "call on the name of the Lord," he or she must believe.
               In order to believe, one must hear (or receive the report). In order for one to hear, another has to
               give the report. And that other won't give the report unless he or she is sent.

               Paul continues in Romans 10:17 to summarize the argument thus far: "So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by
               the word of Christ" (NASB).

                "Faith" is translated from the Greek word pistis, which means "belief, trust, or confidence in someone or something."
                It is key to the book of Romans and is used 40 times in the book—three of those occurrences appearing in chapter
                10. The verb form of the word is also used 21 times within the book and most often translated as "believe."

                If faith comes by hearing, then what does Paul mean by "hearing"? In this context, it is not simply the physical
               receiving of sounds by the ear as most English speakers would understand the term. "Hearing" seems to designate
               something more—the receiving or acceptance of a report. Note the use of the word, translated "message" in Romans
               10:16, as Paul quotes Isaiah 53:1: "Lord, who has believed our message?" In Isaiah's day, the Lord had provided
               Israel with a message, but the prophet laments that few actually received it. The "hearing" was not attached to
               simple sounds but to a message or report given. In Romans 10, Paul makes the point that the good news has been
               given and the people of Israel have heard (Romans 10:18).

               The nature of the gospel is a report: a report of God saving people from the wrath they deserve. In order to
               believe the report, one must receive the report! Faith comes by hearing. It is not a guarantee that the report will
               result in faith, as Paul makes clear in Romans 10:16. For just as the Israelites refused to believe the message of
               Isaiah, every human today can refuse to believe the message of the gospel.

               The nature of "hearing" also does not require the physical act of hearing with the ear. The report simply needs to be
               received. For instance, someone could read the gospel through GotQuestions.org and receive it by faith, without an
                audible word being spoken. As long as the message can be received fully, the medium does not affect the outcome.
               The content of the message must be "the word about Christ." As Paul states in 1 Corinthians 15:3–5, the message is
               "that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third
               day according to the Scriptures, and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve" (NASB). Faith that leads to
               eternal salvation comes after "hearing"; that is, after receiving this message concerning Christ.

All men have some kind of faith or they could not possibly live here on earth. Even an insignificant act as sitting on a chair requires faith! You decide to sit on it because you have the faith that the chair will hold you. When your friend offers you a drink you drink because you have the faith that it is safe, and so on. But the faith which saves a man is something different altogether! It is called the 'Faith of God's elect'! [Titus 1:1] And the Apostle says that "All men have not (this) faith"! [2Thes 3:2].

     Titus 1:1 NASB 1995 Paul, a bond-servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the faith of those chosen of God and
     the knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness,

     "For the faith of those chosen of God....."?  WHO is Paul writing to . Not all of those who believed but to TITUS.... (and
       subsequently Timothy) It is said this letter to Titus and the two Letters of Paul to Timothy have been called the Pastoral
      Epistles because they deal principally with heresies and church discipline. AND HAS NO REFERENCE TO "US and our faith.'

      According to the faith: Paul wasn't an apostle because of the faith of God's elect, but in harmony with the faith (in the
      sense of a specific, common body of doctrine) shared among God's elect.

      But then it becomes dicey because some say  God's elect are those whom He chose from before the foundation of the
      world to receive His salvation. We can identify God's elect because they respond to the gospel of Jesus Christ and live their
      lives after that gospel.
   
     However, it truly seems as if that is the case then We walk by faith, not by sight is for naught.

     Lets continue with

     2 Thes 3:2

     NASB 1995   and that we will be rescued from perverse and evil men; for not all have faith.

    OK... I agree all men do not have faith. Even many who through the years have heard, and listened still do not have
     what I would call a saving faith. I call it a doubting Thomas syndrome.... IOW They know but refuse to accept what they
     cannot understand.

    And there are those who simply have not heard by choice. Those who never have attended any kind of a "Christian" house
     of worship... those who follow another religion... those who would never concede to even hear a soap box preacher much
    less any of the myriads of televangelists because they tune them out.... and so many other reasons. There is no way an
    Orthodox Jew would hear... from days ago to today.  (Never forget the one who walked into ouer house at Christmas time  2
    years ago and when she saw our tree turned her back to walk past it.... ) Any reason to avoid hearing, or knowing what
     others believe and/or why. 

     I digress.. as usual.

     But I have to wonder, and I do properly doubt, that all are given the word, but only those selected by God receive and
     understand it.

     First: 1 Tomothy 2: 4  .... God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

     Is this true? How can it be if God pre-selects those who will be saved. If God pre-selects those who will receive "the saving
     faith".

     As we see in a couple paragraphs below

The Bible speaks of this faith as something which belongs to Christ, for it speaks of "the faith of Christ" "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the FAITH OF CHRIST, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified"! [Gal 2:16]

This saving faith is God's property and is given as a gift to His chosen ones!

     But we have no choice if we are chosen or not?  Seemingly, We have no choice if we want to go to heaven. If
     you please, God chooses and we are responsible to choose!

     IMHO... This is simply wrong.

     I shall stop for today once I complete the following of why I AM NOT  a Calvinist... even though I am a PRESBYTERIAN.
     I am not an Arminiest () either.... but closer to the later in beliefs.
     
     From Tim's answer (https://truthsaves.org/articles/predestination-do-we-have-a-choice/)

     Your friend, having been in a Presbyterian church, was exposed to a theological system of thought known as "Calvinism" or
     "Reformed Theology." There are many concepts that go together in that system of thought, but for purposes of
      understanding predestination, your friend's explanation is only partly correct. That is, those who follow that theological
      system say that all of the world is lost in sin. They say that God, through His grace, decided to save some out of that lost
     condition; none of us will ever of our own will turn to God. In addition, they say that God has mercy on some and reaches
     down and converts them; those are the people to whom God imparts faith so that they might believe. Those people turn to
     become followers of Jesus Christ. The rest of the people continue in their sin, never choosing to come to God, and end up in
     condemnation. Most people who follow this theological thought would not say that it does not matter what you believe or
     do. But they would say that if you believe in Jesus, it is because God chose to give you the faith. There are many wonderful
     Christians who believe in some variant of this teaching. There are many Scriptures that they use to support this viewpoint
     and there are entire books and volumes of books written on the subject. Christian groups generally associated with this
     system are Presbyterians, Reformed churches, some Baptists, and some independent groups.

     There is another system of theological teaching put forth by a Dutch Reformer that is known as Arminianism. Arminianism
     teaches that God has made provision for salvation for all and that though man is corrupted by sin, man still has a "free will"
     and is able to chose God. This system of thought also has numerous variations. Churches such as the Methodists, Wesleyan,
     some groups of the Brethren, many of the Holiness churches like the Nazarenes, some Pentecostals and charismatic groups
     fall into this system of thought.

Pre-destination NO. Pre-selection NO. Free will YES. There is a choice given to all humanity.  And repeating Dorthothy Bryson (9th and 11th grades)  A word to the wise IS sufficient.!

And Jesus is spoken of as the AUTHOR and the FINISHER of this faith! [Heb 12:2] "Now faith "cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God". [Rom 10:17] Notice that faith 'cometh' from somewhere. It is not an inherent product of fallen nature! So WHERE does it come from? It comes from above! "A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from Heaven"! [John 3:27] And again, "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from ABOVE, and cometh down from the Father of lights"! [James 1:17]

But here is the question to ask - "If faith 'cometh' by hearing the word of God, why does it not come to ALL who hear it"? [Rom 10:17]

Because all refuse to believe, is the usual answer given! But that is only one side of the truth! Yes ALL refuse to believe, but the fact remains that some do! In what way are these who believe different from those who do not? The answer is found in Paul's rhetorical question - "For WHO maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not RECEIVE? Now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it"? [1Cor 4:7]

The reason why faith does not come to the majority is because, to the majority the Word of God comes in WORD ONLY! It is not accompanied by power, and the Holy Spirit and much assurance! Hear what the Apostle wrote to the Thessalonians - "Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God. For our gospel came not unto you in WORD ONLY, but also in POWER, and in the HOLY GHOST, and in much ASSURANCE"! [1Thes 1:4,5]

How did the apostle know that the Thessalonian Christians were 'elected' by God to salvation? Why, by this- that when he initially preached to them, the word of God came not just as a dead word from the Bible, but the Word was accompanied by power, the Holy Ghost and much assurance!

Now this is the way it is through all the ages! To God's chosen it is GIVEN to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of God by the gift of faith, but to the rest IT IS NOT GIVEN! [Matt 13:11]

God is absolutely sovereign and does not owe fallen man ANYTHING! He can give to one what He withholds from many and none can say unto Him "what doest Thou"?! So He has mercy on whom He will and whom He will He hardens! [Rom 9:18]

So ultimately, saving faith, repentance and perseverance which are all required for salvation are the gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast! Salvation is "not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God who showeth MERCY! [Rom 9:16]!

And all the praise and glory to God alone! Amen!

[Rella]

I agree 4WD. That was an error, I believe on the part of KJV and some others.To some people that is impossible that the KJV is in error on anything. Our faith IN Christ is what appropriates God's saving grace.

100% correct.

Jimmy's men were not the smartest.

Berean Literal Bible
And the righteousness of God is through faith from Jesus Christ toward all those believing. For there is no distinction,

But NEW KJV

New King James Version
even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;

Not going to post more but Bible Hub list:

https://biblehub.com/romans/3-22.htm

[Jaime]

Just noted that the NEW KJV Changed it to Faith IN Christ.

[Texas Conservative]

Not all who hear are predestined.

[Alan]

Not all who hear are predestined.

According to Red, only the elect are predestined.

[Texas Conservative]

According to Red, only the elect are predestined.

As does Romans 8

[Rella]

Just noted that the NEW KJV Changed it to Faith IN Christ.

Oh no............ Poor RB. He always wants the KJV to remain as is.

And that 100% changes that meaning. NO ONE could possibly misunderstand.

[Rella]

Not all who hear are predestined.

That has been my contention all along.

I do believe that some are pre-destined to hear and believe and those are the ones that God has a purpose for.

And those that are chosen will not be able to resist his call.

But it is more important to know if you hear, why you would not be among those who are chosen.

[4WD]

According to Red, only the elect are predestined.

As does Romans 8

Alan,
Red is correct when he says that only the elect are predestined.  It is just that his view of the elect is all screwed up.

TC,
Actually Romans 8 doesn't say that only the elect are predestined; rather it says that God predestined those He foreknew. It also says "those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified" (v.30).   All of that are the things that work together for good to those who love God. If there is a cause and effect to be identified in all of this, loving God is the cause, election is the result; not vice versa as Red proclaims. Of course, loving God comes by first believing in Him.

[Texas Conservative]

Romans 8 does say that. 

[4WD]

Where, specifically, does Romans 8 say that only the elect are predestined?

[4WD]

Not all who hear are predestined.

Perhaps I should have directed my comments here.  Not all who hear will believe what they hear about God and believe in God. There are more many reasons for that.  The Parable of the  Sower taught by Jesus (Mark 4:1-20) gives His answer to that question. It is they who believe God's word, who come to believe in Him and love Him that are predestined.

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Aww... how do we get Red back here?  Is there some way we can lift the registration restrictions for a minute so he can get back in?

-Jarrod

[4WD]

I thought Red's absence from this forum was his choice.  Has he been banned from the site for some reason?

[Jaime]

From what I have heard, he lost his password and can't login. I think he we t to another platform instead. We do need him back.

[Rella]

I thought Red's absence from this forum was his choice.  Has he been banned from the site for some reason?

NO. Not choice and not banned.

He had some work done on his computer and they cleaned out his "PASSWORDS"

He does not remember what it was for GC.

He has tried logging on but I guess he does not get the notification of eset your password if you cant remember or whatever it says.

In any event I found a program for him to try to get a list of all passwords, but I think he is waiting for a grandson to come
and help him out.

He wants.. or did want to get into this thread but has to wait.

[Rella]

Yes we do.

BTW... this article that I posted is from his other one.....

[Jaime]

If I were him, I would register a new account named RB2. Then if be recovers the old account psswors, he can revert back to the old account. Assuming a new account is even possible! Password maintenance is the bane of my existence!

[Rella]

Where, specifically, does Romans 8 say that only the elect are predestined?

The idea seems to be an adaptation of Romans 8:29

Romans 8:29
New American Standard Bible
29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters;

NOTE: It does not say all were predestined. Just those... "select" ....

From Got Questions https://www.gotquestions.org/He-predestined-those-He-foreknew.html

Paul then provides detail to show the trustworthiness of God in working all things together for good. Those whom God foreknew He predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus (Romans 8:29a). We learn a couple key points about God here. First, we discover that God has foreknowledge of people before they even exist. Jeremiah records that God knew and consecrated him before he was born (Jeremiah 1:5). David wrote that God had written all of David's days in a book, ordaining them before they began (Psalm 139:16).

Second, we learn that God does indeed predestine certain people (that is, He "determines beforehand," "ordains," "decides ahead of time" who will be saved). In Ephesians 1 Paul explains that God the Father chose believers to be in Christ before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4) and predestined believers to adoption as sons of God (Ephesians 1:5).

The Bible teaches that God foreknows and predestines His children, and this presents some challenging questions regarding whether people can choose—or does God's sovereignty preclude human ability to choose? Historically, the Calvinist position has emphasized God's sovereignty over human choice, while the Arminian position elevates human choice over God's sovereignty. These two theological traditions attempt to resolve the perceived tension between human choice and God's choice. The Bible makes things a bit simpler than do the two traditions.

BTW... this link is not an uplifting at all... concerning Calvin.

In answer to Predestination: What Does This Mean for the Non-Elect?

Comes what Calvin says.
https://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/predestination-what-does-mean-non-elect

Decretum horribile. That's what John Calvin called the doctrine of reprobation (Institutes 3.23.7). It means the "awe-full decree." We've seen in the previous five parts of this series that our Triune God in His amazing grace has elected or predestined some of fallen humanity to salvation. In this final post, the question we are faced with is what of the rest of humanity? Reformed theology typically confesses what is known as double predestination. The Canons of Dort(CD) define this doctrine as "the express testimony of sacred Scripture that not all, but some only, are elected, while others are passed by in the eternal decree" (CD 1.15).

OK... I need to stop here because there is a much needed in depth discussion on Calvins belief and RB needs to be here for that.

Such as...

Calvin believed in an eternal decree to save some sinners and leave others to the destruction that their sin deserves.

So with that I shall leave with another, slightly more encouraging, link in answer to

Ephesians 1: How do I Know if I'm Chosen and Predestined?

https://medium.com/the-flower-falls-off/chosen-and-predestined-79feac1c05fc

Toward the very end of the article it takes you to 2 more links.....

Calvinistic teaching says these things provide an unconditional guarantee of salvation, but the Scriptures indicate something different.

Redemption, Adoption, and the Seal of the Spirit.
https://medium.com/the-flower-falls-off/redemption-adoption-and-the-seal-of-the-spirit-2f664235e105 [/size]

What Paul said in Romans 8 about the people who were foreknown and predestined,

Foreknown and Predestined
https://medium.com/the-flower-falls-off/foreknown-and-predestined-3e1d71c91d54
[/size]

[DaveW]

Yes, but why not?

Why when given good news do people act as if they have been deaf. This is not just true og God things but in everyday life.
Many times I have been bursting to give good news to someone and it has been met with a so what attitude, which too often I could not understand.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God... and if I messed that up I am not double checking myself.

"but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith"  Certainly seems cut and dried except we are told that Faith comes by hearing first... therefore the word they heard could not have been by faith..... Just seems a contradiction.

Also consider this:

Psalm 95:7b-8
Today, if you would hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts, as at Meribah,
As in the day of Massah in the wilderness,

This is quoted 3 times in the book of Hebrews (3:7, 3:15, 4:7)  The choice is clear: Hear God and accept His word in the faith it produces, or harden your heart against it. 

[4WD]

The idea seems to be an adaptation of Romans 8:29

Romans 8:29
New American Standard Bible
29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters;

NOTE: It does not say all were predestined. Just those... "select" ....

Yes, sort of.  But who were those... "select"....?  Verse 28 says that the ..."select" were specifically those who love God.  In other words, the selection is based upon those who love God.  Verse 29 first notes that God foreknew who those were and then goes on to outline the benefits accued to them.

[4WD]

Also consider this:

Psalm 95:7b-8
Today, if you would hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts, as at Meribah,
As in the day of Massah in the wilderness,

This is quoted 3 times in the book of Hebrews (3:7, 3:15, 4:7)  The choice is clear: Hear God and accept His word in the faith it produces, or harden your heart against it.

Your statement to "....accept His word in the faith it produces...." is a bit of a circular rational.  How can you accept something in faith if that faith is yet to be produced?  The choice is to believe or to not believe what you hear from God's voice.  Subsequent to that, there are several alternatives.  Those alternatives are spelled out explicitly by Jesus in the Parable of the Sower in Mark 4.

[Rella]

Yes, sort of.  But who were those... "select"....?  Verse 28 says that the ..."select" were specifically those who love God.  In other words, the selection is based upon those who love God.  Verse 29 first notes that God foreknew who those were and then goes on to outline the benefits accued to them.

Exactly.

But lets leave the Christian side of things out of this.

Do you deny that in old testament times the Jews were God's favorites... They were his chosen and they were kept and protected ... eventually... from the harms of the other people wandering this world at that time and their masters when they were slaves?

It appears that from the very beginning God chose some and left the others to their destinys.

It also, when we look back at the "hero's" of the day appears that God had definite favorites among the people that were his chosen.

You cannot deny that the reason we have any hope at all in a blessed eternity is by our faith in Jesus and His shed blood.

ORIGINALLY that was not to be so..... At least according to Jesus....

Matthew 15:24
New American Standard Bible
24 But He answered and said, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

And He further stated.

John 14:6-11
New American Standard Bible
6 Jesus *said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me.

And

John 6:44
New American Standard Bible
44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

The Jews had been waiting for their Messiah... And He eventually came.

What happened that caused Jesus to accept the Gentiles is beside the point... the fact is He was here for them not us from the beginning.

Calvin is full of it IF he is trying to say "we all" are included with them.

No way on earth can he, Calvin, supercede what Jesus actually told people from His own mouth.

I submit the "select" were those Jews until they denied who Jesus truly was....

[Jaime]

I don't think God changed his mind as to offering salvation to the Gentiles. The promise to Abraham in Genesis 12-22 was that All nations or all peoples of the world would be blessed by his seed (Jesus). The Gentiles had an important role in God's plan. Paul being sent to the Gentiles was not Plan B.

[4WD]

Exactly.

But lets leave the Christian side of things out of this.

Do you deny that in old testament times the Jews were God's favorites... They were his chosen and they were kept and protected ... eventually... from the harms of the other people wandering this world at that time and their masters when they were slaves?

It appears that from the very beginning God chose some and left the others to their destinys.

That is true, Israel was a chosen nation, a chosen people; however, in that case God chose them for service; they were not, as a nation, chosen for salvation.  They were chosen to be the conduit though which the Messiah would come.  That is message number one of Romans 9 which so many refuse to believe and understand. Message number two or Romans 9 is God is not obligated to save anyone He uses for whatever purpose He wants.  Thus when Paul says in Romans 9:21, "Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?", he is speaking of choosing for service, not for salvation.

So far as believing in the gospel, the power of God for salvation, God gave that opportunity first to the Jew then to the rest of the world (Rom 1:16, 2:9,10).