What will happen to Christians who reject the Sabbath?

[Rella]

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

That would be in the Garden of Eden, with Adam and Eve, after our Lord Jesus had finished creating this world.

Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: 10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Scripture is fine... I assume you copied and pasted so I wont double check as I am doing a couple of things before going to mom in a bit as she still is in that therapy place.

This does not answer what my question was.

Can you tell me who Jesus celebrated the Sabbath with and HOW?

I asked as thread title says What will Happen to Christians who reject the Sabbath ?

Adam and Eve were not Christians....

You say... after our Lord Jesus had finished creating this world.

That is technically wrong. It was the WORD who became flesh some 4000 years after creation.

I simply want to know how this man with blood that bled when cut celebrated the Sabbath and with whom did he celebrate?

And Ill add to that... what specific instructions did he give those he sent out to preach about him and baptism,,, did He tell those
to tell them when and how to worship.

Simple questions...

Matt 28

16 The eleven disciples went to the mountain in Galilee where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they bowed down in worship, though some had doubts.

18 When Jesus came near, he spoke to them. He said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 So wherever you go, make disciples of all nations: Baptize them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. 20 Teach them to do everything I have commanded you.

"And remember that I am always with you until the end of time."

https://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/7-commandments-jesus-gave-from-the-gospels/
Jesus Commandments
Like the Ten Commandments, these commands that Jesus gave in the gospels were not the ten suggestions but imperative commands that we have no room to rationalize them away.  If Jesus came down to earth, which He is destined to do again, and He came to you and told you to do something, surely you wouldn't hesitate would you?  You wouldn't try to wiggle your way out of it would you?  When Jesus gives believers commands, He is not asking us to do them but tells us to do them.  He said that "If you love me, you will keep my commandments" (John 14:15) so our love for Christ is reflected in our obedience to Him. If you don't love Him, naturally you won't obey Him. Obedience tells us whether we truly love Jesus or not so in these seven commandments, we must prove our love for Him by keeping them and teaching others to do the same thing.  Truly, there are more than seven commandments that were given by Jesus as I counted over 30 so there may be more than that but I do hope to reveal seven of the greatest commandments Jesus gave us in the gospels.


7 Commandments Jesus Gave From the Gospels

Love One Another
John 13:34-35 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.  By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."


Here is "a new command" that Jesus gives to His disciples, and if we are saved then this means us.  We are commanded to love one another but how great is this love to be?  We are to love one another just as Jesus loved us.  That's a tall order!  If we love one another like Christ loves us then this means that we will not gossip about others, we will be a servant of others, we will put others ahead of our own interests and if we do this, "everyone will know that [we] are [His] disciples."  This love is an evangelistic love that draws men, women, and children to Christ because they reason, "Look at how they love one another in such a sacrificial way...that is real godly love" and so even the lost will know that we are the disciples of Jesus Christ. It's not about religion but about a relationship with the Son of God.

Pray for your Enemies
Matthew 5:44-45 "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust."

This command is off the charts for those who don't have the Holy Spirit.  The Romans could not have understood this at all.  Really?  Pray for your enemies?  This is diametrically opposed to the ways of the world and that is exactly the reason that Jesus commands us to not only pray for our enemies but to love them too!  Is that humanly possible?  No, it is not.  This kind of love...loving our enemies and praying for those who persecute us is the kind of love that is like that of God and we can't possibly do it without the Holy Spirit of God.  He tells us to pray for them and love them "so that" or in order that we "may be sons (and daughters) of [our] Father."  A godly love is one where we are to pray for our enemies because Jesus prays for us and died for us while we were still His enemies and wicked sinners (Rom 5:8, 11).

Repent
Matthew 4:17 "From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

You might not think of this as being a new command but we see that it was "From that time [that] Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."  From what time exactly did Matthew mean in his gospel?  It was from the time that "Jesus began to preach" or began His earthly ministry.  This is the only command that I could find that is directed to those who are not yet saved.  Jesus says to "repent" in an imperative statement or as a direct command.  He never gives the idea that this is an option.  The kingdom being at hand means that if it is at hand, it is within reach or within an arm's length so the kingdom's being at hand is made so with the appearance of the King of that kingdom, and that is Jesus Christ.

Believe that Jesus is in the Father
John 14:11 "Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves."

Once again this doesn't seem, at first glance, to be a new command given by Jesus but He tells the disciples, and again by extension, He tells us, to "believe" in Him and that He is "in the Father and the Father" is in Him.  Jesus uses the Old Testament name for God: "I am" so He is essentially commanding us to believe that Jesus is the "I AM" of the Old Testament, even though most people might not catch that.  Jesus actually gave seven "I AM's" in the four gospels.   He also tells us to believe that He and the Father are in One Another.  The Jews sought to stone Him for saying such things because He made Himself out to be God, which of course He is.  Some cults do not believe this command, therefore they don't believe in the true Jesus Christ.  There are several other places where Jesus commands His disciples to believe in Him so this is no accident that to believe is a given command (John 14:11).

Take up your Cross and Follow Me
Matthew 16:24-25 "Then Jesus told his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.  For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it."

Jesus tells his disciples, and He tells us to follow Him but if anyone is to follow after Jesus, they must deny themselves and then "take up His cross and follow" Him.   Jesus uses hyperbole when He says that if we would save our life we must lose it and if we lose our life for His sake then we will find it. I believe He means we will find eternal life.  The command is to take up His cross and then follow Him. This is not a suggestion.  If we want to follow Him, it is conditional; we must take up His cross and deny ourselves.  We must deny the things that we like, the things of this world, and take up the things that Jesus endured.

Go and Make Disciples
Matthew 28:18-20 "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

This is a direct, imperative command like that of a parent who would command their children to get out of the middle of the street.  There is no plan B.  Jesus tells the disciples and He tells us that "you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth" (Acts 1:8).  This commandment of the Great Commission is given three times.  Twice in the gospels (Matthew and Mark) and once just before He ascended (Acts 1:8) so this is of particular importance to Christ.  Any command or statement that Jesus ever gives more than once is always held to be of supreme importance and we are told to go and make disciples of all nations, to teach them what Jesus teaches us, and to go into all the world, even if its next door.

Pray Always
Luke 21:36 "But stay awake at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are going to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man."

Jesus says for us, in the context of Luke 21, to stay alert because His coming could be at any moment (Luke 21:29-35).  He commands us to pray:

at all times (Luke 21:36),
not using vain repetitions (Matt 6:7-8),
to the Lord of the Harvest for more laborers (Luke 10:2),
so that we won't enter into temptations (Luke 22:40, 46),
to the Father in secret (Matt 6:6),
for God's will and the kingdom to come, for the forgiveness of our sins, and for our needs (Luke 11:3-4),
for those who despitefully use us (Luke 6:28).
When the disciples came to Jesus they didn't ask Him "Lord, teach us to preach; teach us to heal; teach us to minister....but teach us how to pray (Luke 11:1) because they saw that Jesus was truly a Man of prayer.

Conclusion
Jesus commands all who are not saved to repent (Matt 4:17), to take the gospel into all the world (Matt 28:18-20), to take up our cross and follow Him (Matt 16:24-25). He also commands us to believe that He is in the Father and the Father is in Him (John 14:11), to stay alert and always pray (Luke 21:36), to love one another like Christ loved them (John 13:34-35), and to pray for our enemies and those who persecute us (Matt 5:44-45). These are not suggestions but commands given by the King of kings and Lord of Lords, Jesus Christ our Savior.  The only question is, you I obey?  Will you?

 

So who actually taught what to the newly "converted" Christians?

Trivia time:

Aside from Acts 11:26, the word "Christian" is used only two other times in the New Testament: in Acts 26:28 (by Agrippa, an unbelieving King who applied the name he knew as an outsider) and 1 Peter 4:16 in the context of enduring all the suffering associated with the title.

[Cathlodox]

I believe Gods Word, not mans theories and traditions...

Genesis 1:31
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

If you consider the Old & New Testament God's Word you should be assembling with Christians on the day that St. Paul said to do it. Understand there is zero issue with worshipping on Saturday, that's great and I admire SDA's devotion to the Gregorian Saturday.

1st,
There are far more Catholics who worship on Saturday than SDA's and this isn't going to change. It's frankly foolish to suggest that the Catholic Church is going to reverse itself and start persecuting SDA's (& Catholics) who assemble for worship on Saturday / Sabbath. Think about this for a minute Hobbie. For this to happen you'd also have agree that it's possible at some point in the future that the Catholic Church would change it's position on the Virgin Mary and start teaching Mary ISN'T the Mother of God. How likely would that be in your current theological construct?

2nd
IF it can be proven that Catholics indeed worship on Saturday / Sabbath the Adventist issue with that must be reduced to Doctrine - there must be affirmations made at Catholic (& Eastern Orthodox) worship services that contradict Adventist teaching. This is actually the case and can be demonstrated fairly easily.

SDA's believe the Holy Trinity to be a "UNITY - not a compound being". Under this SDA rubric The Son could, by His own fault, eternally cease to exist if He sinned leaving Father God as the only "God". Catholic's, Eastern Orthodox & Protestant Faith Traditions reject this concept as heresy as they all maintain that God is ONE SINGLE BEING without body or parts.

Sabbath Herald November 25, 1880 Vol 56 No. 22

but he very well knows, from positions taken
and arguments used in previous articles, that we do not
agree with him on this subject any better than on that
of the nature of the soul. We believe in but one Deity,
God, who is a unity, not a compound 'being. We
think the Bible as well as common sense sustains this
view. Says Eld. W., "'His trinitarianism ' seems to
shackle him much." We repel the charge of " trinita-.
rianism " without the slightest hesitation. We do not
believe in a triune God, as before remarked. And we
will not, as did our reviewer in a former article, leave
the reader in doubt as to our position on this point.
We are utterly at a loss to comprehend how our reviewer
could have blundered so strangely as to suppose
us to share in so gross an error as we believe the
orthodox doctrine of the trinity to be

Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant Churches affirm the Nicene Creed which explicitly states that Jesus' coming, dying, and resurrection HAD TO HAPPEN, was NOT POSSIBLE for all that to not happen. Restorationist faith groups abhor this concept (that Christ had to die and had to be resurrected). Restorationist groups teach that Michael the archangel could have died and lost His Salvation & had this happened Michael would have be smitted by God.

In summary it appears that the SDA issues with Catholicism, Lutheranism, Eastern Orthodoxy isn't the Sabbath at all - it's the Trinity Doctrine.

[Amo]

Scripture is fine... I assume you copied and pasted so I wont double check as I am doing a couple of things before going to mom in a bit as she still is in that therapy place.

This does not answer what my question was.

It is an answer to your question. Jesus created this world and everything in it. He also created the seventh day sabbath, and no doubt observed it with Adam and Eve at the end of creation.

Can you tell me who Jesus celebrated the Sabbath with and HOW?

I asked as thread title says What will Happen to Christians who reject the Sabbath ?

Adam and Eve were not Christians....

You say... after our Lord Jesus had finished creating this world.

That is technically wrong. It was the WORD who became flesh some 4000 years after creation.

I simply want to know how this man with blood that bled when cut celebrated the Sabbath and with whom did he celebrate?

Jesus Christ was ,is, and will always be the WORD OF GOD. All things came into being through Him. Each day of creation "God said" let there be whatever was created on that day. That is to say, it all was created by the WORD OF GOD, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Psa 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. 7 He gathereth the waters of the sea together as an heap: he layeth up the depth in storehouses. 8 Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him. 9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

You are correct that Adam and eve were not "Christians", neither was or is our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. When here on earth He was Jewish, a son of Abraham and David according to the flesh. Before that He was and is the God of Israel. After His incarnation He is the God of all Jews and or Christians who have accepted Him as their Lord and Savior. He is not Jewish or Christian now, but God of all, whether they care to accept this truth or not.

There is no question but that the incarnate Jesus Christ, first kept the sabbath as all Jews growing up did, with their families. As an adult we know that it was His custom to go to the synagogue on the sabbath day.

Luke 4:14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. 15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. 16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. 17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

And Ill add to that... what specific instructions did he give those he sent out to preach about him and baptism,,, did He tell those to tell them when and how to worship.

Simple questions...

Yes they are simple questions, which have a simple answer. Jesus was Jewish, and so were His disciples. They did not need instruction concerning when and how to worship. They were all raised being taught how and when to worship. Jesus Himself confirming these teachings with His own teachings and living example.

Matt 28

16 The eleven disciples went to the mountain in Galilee where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they bowed down in worship, though some had doubts.

18 When Jesus came near, he spoke to them. He said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 So wherever you go, make disciples of all nations: Baptize them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. 20 Teach them to do everything I have commanded you.

"And remember that I am always with you until the end of time."

Yes, and Jesus taught them that He did not come to change or abolish the commandments of God in Matthew 5:17-20. Telling them in verse 19 also, "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

https://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/7-commandments-jesus-gave-from-the-gospels/
Jesus Commandments
Like the Ten Commandments, these commands that Jesus gave in the gospels were not the ten suggestions but imperative commands that we have no room to rationalize them away.  If Jesus came down to earth, which He is destined to do again, and He came to you and told you to do something, surely you wouldn't hesitate would you?  You wouldn't try to wiggle your way out of it would you?  When Jesus gives believers commands, He is not asking us to do them but tells us to do them.  He said that "If you love me, you will keep my commandments" (John 14:15) so our love for Christ is reflected in our obedience to Him. If you don't love Him, naturally you won't obey Him. Obedience tells us whether we truly love Jesus or not so in these seven commandments, we must prove our love for Him by keeping them and teaching others to do the same thing.  Truly, there are more than seven commandments that were given by Jesus as I counted over 30 so there may be more than that but I do hope to reveal seven of the greatest commandments Jesus gave us in the gospels.


7 Commandments Jesus Gave From the Gospels

Love One Another
John 13:34-35 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.  By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."


Here is "a new command" that Jesus gives to His disciples, and if we are saved then this means us.  We are commanded to love one another but how great is this love to be?  We are to love one another just as Jesus loved us.  That's a tall order!  If we love one another like Christ loves us then this means that we will not gossip about others, we will be a servant of others, we will put others ahead of our own interests and if we do this, "everyone will know that [we] are [His] disciples."  This love is an evangelistic love that draws men, women, and children to Christ because they reason, "Look at how they love one another in such a sacrificial way...that is real godly love" and so even the lost will know that we are the disciples of Jesus Christ. It's not about religion but about a relationship with the Son of God.

Pray for your Enemies
Matthew 5:44-45 "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust."

This command is off the charts for those who don't have the Holy Spirit.  The Romans could not have understood this at all.  Really?  Pray for your enemies?  This is diametrically opposed to the ways of the world and that is exactly the reason that Jesus commands us to not only pray for our enemies but to love them too!  Is that humanly possible?  No, it is not.  This kind of love...loving our enemies and praying for those who persecute us is the kind of love that is like that of God and we can't possibly do it without the Holy Spirit of God.  He tells us to pray for them and love them "so that" or in order that we "may be sons (and daughters) of [our] Father."  A godly love is one where we are to pray for our enemies because Jesus prays for us and died for us while we were still His enemies and wicked sinners (Rom 5:8, 11).

Repent
Matthew 4:17 "From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

You might not think of this as being a new command but we see that it was "From that time [that] Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."  From what time exactly did Matthew mean in his gospel?  It was from the time that "Jesus began to preach" or began His earthly ministry.  This is the only command that I could find that is directed to those who are not yet saved.  Jesus says to "repent" in an imperative statement or as a direct command.  He never gives the idea that this is an option.  The kingdom being at hand means that if it is at hand, it is within reach or within an arm's length so the kingdom's being at hand is made so with the appearance of the King of that kingdom, and that is Jesus Christ.

Believe that Jesus is in the Father
John 14:11 "Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves."

Once again this doesn't seem, at first glance, to be a new command given by Jesus but He tells the disciples, and again by extension, He tells us, to "believe" in Him and that He is "in the Father and the Father" is in Him.  Jesus uses the Old Testament name for God: "I am" so He is essentially commanding us to believe that Jesus is the "I AM" of the Old Testament, even though most people might not catch that.  Jesus actually gave seven "I AM's" in the four gospels.  He also tells us to believe that He and the Father are in One Another.  The Jews sought to stone Him for saying such things because He made Himself out to be God, which of course He is.  Some cults do not believe this command, therefore they don't believe in the true Jesus Christ.  There are several other places where Jesus commands His disciples to believe in Him so this is no accident that to believe is a given command (John 14:11).

Take up your Cross and Follow Me
Matthew 16:24-25 "Then Jesus told his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.  For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it."

Jesus tells his disciples, and He tells us to follow Him but if anyone is to follow after Jesus, they must deny themselves and then "take up His cross and follow" Him.  Jesus uses hyperbole when He says that if we would save our life we must lose it and if we lose our life for His sake then we will find it. I believe He means we will find eternal life.  The command is to take up His cross and then follow Him. This is not a suggestion.  If we want to follow Him, it is conditional; we must take up His cross and deny ourselves.  We must deny the things that we like, the things of this world, and take up the things that Jesus endured.

Go and Make Disciples
Matthew 28:18-20 "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

This is a direct, imperative command like that of a parent who would command their children to get out of the middle of the street.  There is no plan B.  Jesus tells the disciples and He tells us that "you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth" (Acts 1:8).  This commandment of the Great Commission is given three times.  Twice in the gospels (Matthew and Mark) and once just before He ascended (Acts 1:8) so this is of particular importance to Christ.  Any command or statement that Jesus ever gives more than once is always held to be of supreme importance and we are told to go and make disciples of all nations, to teach them what Jesus teaches us, and to go into all the world, even if its next door.

Pray Always
Luke 21:36 "But stay awake at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are going to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man."

Jesus says for us, in the context of Luke 21, to stay alert because His coming could be at any moment (Luke 21:29-35).  He commands us to pray:

at all times (Luke 21:36),
not using vain repetitions (Matt 6:7-8),
to the Lord of the Harvest for more laborers (Luke 10:2),
so that we won't enter into temptations (Luke 22:40, 46),
to the Father in secret (Matt 6:6),
for God's will and the kingdom to come, for the forgiveness of our sins, and for our needs (Luke 11:3-4),
for those who despitefully use us (Luke 6:28).
When the disciples came to Jesus they didn't ask Him "Lord, teach us to preach; teach us to heal; teach us to minister....but teach us how to pray (Luke 11:1) because they saw that Jesus was truly a Man of prayer.

Conclusion
Jesus commands all who are not saved to repent (Matt 4:17), to take the gospel into all the world (Matt 28:18-20), to take up our cross and follow Him (Matt 16:24-25). He also commands us to believe that He is in the Father and the Father is in Him (John 14:11), to stay alert and always pray (Luke 21:36), to love one another like Christ loved them (John 13:34-35), and to pray for our enemies and those who persecute us (Matt 5:44-45). These are not suggestions but commands given by the King of kings and Lord of Lords, Jesus Christ our Savior.  The only question is, you I obey?  Will you?

Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying, 2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. 7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. 12Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. 13 Thou shalt not kill. 14 Thou shalt not commit adultery. 15 Thou shalt not steal. 16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. 17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's. 18 And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off. 19 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

Who is the WORD OF GOD Rella? Who spoke the commandments, and therefore whose commandments are they. Who led Israel through the wilderness and descended upon the mountain and spoke the commandments? Who was the angel of the burning bush?
 
1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Exo 3:1 Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb. 2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. 3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. 4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I........................................................................14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Jhn 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

So who actually taught what to the newly "converted" Christians?

Trivia time:

Aside from Acts 11:26, the word "Christian" is used only two other times in the New Testament: in Acts 26:28 (by Agrippa, an unbelieving King who applied the name he knew as an outsider) and 1 Peter 4:16 in the context of enduring all the suffering associated with the title.

Yes, as I stated, Jesus and His disciples were Jews not Christians. That term was first applied Jesus' followers in a derogatory manner if I remember correctly. Then it stuck and became applicable to all His followers. Christians are graft into the vine, not separate from it, or the vine itself.

[Rella]

It is an answer to your question. Jesus created this world and everything in it. He also created the seventh day sabbath, and no doubt observed it with Adam and Eve at the end of creation.

Jesus Christ was ,is, and will always be the WORD OF GOD. All things came into being through Him. Each day of creation "God said" let there be whatever was created on that day. That is to say, it all was created by the WORD OF GOD, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Psa 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. 7 He gathereth the waters of the sea together as an heap: he layeth up the depth in storehouses. 8 Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him. 9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

You are correct that Adam and eve were not "Christians", neither was or is our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. When here on earth He was Jewish, a son of Abraham and David according to the flesh. Before that He was and is the God of Israel. After His incarnation He is the God of all Jews and or Christians who have accepted Him as their Lord and Savior. He is not Jewish or Christian now, but God of all, whether they care to accept this truth or not.

There is no question but that the incarnate Jesus Christ, first kept the sabbath as all Jews growing up did, with their families. As an adult we know that it was His custom to go to the synagogue on the sabbath day.

Luke 4:14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. 15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. 16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. 17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

Yes they are simple questions, which have a simple answer. Jesus was Jewish, and so were His disciples. They did not need instruction concerning when and how to worship. They were all raised being taught how and when to worship. Jesus Himself confirming these teachings with His own teachings and living example.

Yes, and Jesus taught them that He did not come to change or abolish the commandments of God in Matthew 5:17-20. Telling them in verse 19 also, "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying, 2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. 7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. 12Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. 13 Thou shalt not kill. 14 Thou shalt not commit adultery. 15 Thou shalt not steal. 16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. 17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's. 18 And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off. 19 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

Who is the WORD OF GOD Rella? Who spoke the commandments, and therefore whose commandments are they. Who led Israel through the wilderness and descended upon the mountain and spoke the commandments? Who was the angel of the burning bush?
 
1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Exo 3:1 Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb. 2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. 3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. 4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I........................................................................14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Jhn 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Yes, as I stated, Jesus and His disciples were Jews not Christians. That term was first applied Jesus' followers in a derogatory manner if I remember correctly. Then it stuck and became applicable to all His followers. Christians are graft into the vine, not separate from it, or the vine itself.

Exactly and all instructions were given to those preached to from a jew to a jew.

So in answer to what will happen to Christians if they reject the sabbath.

I dont think anything just so long as being a Christian you are a Christian.

Faith comes first. The not wavering belief that your know... knows.

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

And then properly  worshipping   which does not necessarily need the confines of four walls and a steeple .

https://www.desiringgod.org/messages/remember-the-sabbath-day-to-keep-it-holy

As we move on into the early church it is clear that the weekly day of rest and devotion was not rejected, but was changed from Saturday to Sunday. This is nowhere commanded. But there are two verses that suggest it happened already in the days of the apostles. One is Acts 20:7 which says, "On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread,[/color] Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the morrow; and he prolonged his speech until midnight." This seems to be a formal gathering for the Lord's Supper on Sunday evening, the first day of the week. (It could have been Saturday evening since by Jewish reckoning the day begins at 6:00 PM the previous evening. But Luke probably uses the Roman way of reckoning days from midnight to midnight. Cf. 4:3; 23:31f.) So it looks as though the switch to Sunday for worship had already begun.

The other verse that points in this direction is 1 Corinthians 16:2. Paul is trying to prepare the Corinthians for a collection that he is taking up from the churches for the saints in Jerusalem: "On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that contributions need not be made when I come." It seems that the first day of the week is now the day when Christians are performing special religious exercises.

The First Day of the Week
Those are the only explicit references in the New Testament that seem to relate the sabbath to Sunday rather than Saturday. The real reason for why the church came to count the first day of the week as her day of rest and worship is that the Lord of the sabbath rose from the dead on the first day of the week (John 20:1). Just like the work of the first creation was finished on the seventh day of the week, the work of the new creation in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17; Galatians 6:15; Ephesians 2:10) was finished on the first day of the week by the resurrection of Jesus. So from the very earliest days Christians have set aside the first day of the week as their usual day of rest and worship.

So.. LOOK WHO'S TALKING... Paul.

If it is good enough for Paul it is good enough for me.

[Amo]

Exactly and all instructions were given to those preached to from a jew to a jew.

So in answer to what will happen to Christians if they reject the sabbath.

I dont think anything just so long as being a Christian you are a Christian.

Faith comes first. The not wavering belief that your know... knows.

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

And then properly  worshipping   which does not necessarily need the confines of four walls and a steeple .

https://www.desiringgod.org/messages/remember-the-sabbath-day-to-keep-it-holy
So.. LOOK WHO'S TALKING... Paul.

If it is good enough for Paul it is good enough for me.

Not that we have not been through this before, but, the problem with all of the above is that none of it is based upon a thus saith the Lord. Even your final statement is pure speculation. Paul never taught anywhere, that the first day of the week now replaces the seventh day sabbath because our Lord Jesus rose upon that day. No scripture teaches any such thing. To the contrary, the word's and teachings of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ conclusively contradict and warn against this exact sin. To the effect that God's commandments would and could not be changed til heaven and earth pass. Our Lord also specifically addressed and warned against humanity ignoring God's commandments by contradicting or superseding them with man made traditions. Which is exactly what this issue is really all about.


Mat 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. 5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; 6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. 7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Your statement to the effect that the apostle Paul approved of the change you are promoting, is pure conjecture. A faulty premise which scripture itself backs up nowhere. This is not to mention the faulty premise of stating that Christians believed and supported this change even during the days of the apostles. Historical record and fact, reveals that the seventh day sabbath was kept and observed by a great many Christins for many centuries  after Christ and the apostles. Including a great deal of historical testimony regarding the gradual change that took place regarding this issue.

Authentic biblical doctrine is built upon the word of God. The more biblical testimony there is, and the more conclusive the scriptures are, the more solid the foundation of doctrines or teachings are. Your teaching or belief as defended above is built upon speculation alone, concerning only two verses of scripture, which themselves do not teach at all, what you are espousing. You are effectively ignoring direct and conclusive statements of scripture, straight from the mouth of God, in favor of speculations concerning two verses. Then teaching that those speculations mean something they themselves do not even say anywhere at all. Go figure. You are of course free to choose to believe whatever you wish for whatever reasons you wish. Nevertheless, I say again, your belief is entirely extra biblical.

I find the following statement concerning this issue, to be short and historically accurate, concerning the truth of the matter, from -

APOSTOLIC LETTER DIES DOMINI by John Paul II

63. Christ came to accomplish a new "exodus", to restore freedom to the oppressed. He performed many healings on the Sabbath (cf. Mt 12:9-14 and parallels), certainly not to violate the Lord's Day, but to reveal its full meaning: "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath" (Mk 2:27). Opposing the excessively legalistic interpretation of some of his contemporaries, and developing the true meaning of the biblical Sabbath, Jesus, as "Lord of the Sabbath" (Mk 2:28), restores to the Sabbath observance its liberating character, carefully safeguarding the rights of God and the rights of man. This is why Christians, called as they are to proclaim the liberation won by the blood of Christ, felt that they had the authority to transfer the meaning of the Sabbath to the day of the Resurrection. The Passover of Christ has in fact liberated man from a slavery more radical than any weighing upon an oppressed people — the slavery of sin, which alienates man from God, and alienates man from himself and from others, constantly sowing within history the seeds of evil and violence.

Emphasis in the above quote is mine. Some Christians "felt that they had the authority to transfer the meaning of the Sabbath to the day of the Resurrection." Many others did not, and continued to observe God's sabbath. Both days were observed for many centuries, until the increasing power and influence of Roman Catholicism eventually forbade the seventh day, and forced the first day upon all. Which history has been and continues to be repeated today. Therefore are the calls for Sunday laws ever on the increase.

The Synod of Laodicea - 343-381 A.D. - furnishes a decree which is quoted by many:
"Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday [Sabbatum is always used for the Sabbath and is translated Saturday in the English edition of Hefele], but shall work on that day; but the Lord's-day they shall especially honor, and as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If, however, they are found Judaizing they shall be shut out from Christ. (Canon 29, Hefele, Vol. 2, p. 316.)

Pope Gregory I (AD 590-604) said :
"Gregory, bishop by the grace of God to his well-beloved sons, the Roman citizens: It has come to me that certain men of perverse spirit have disseminated among you things depraved and opposed to the holy faith, so that they forbid anything to be done on the day of the Sabbath. What shall I call them except preachers of anti-Christ?." Epistles of Gregory I, b.13, epist.1, found in Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers.

MAJOR COUNCILS OF THE CHURCH

Second Council of Nicaea - 787 A.D. part two

CANONS

8

Since some of those who come from the religion of the Hebrews mistakenly think to make a mockery of Christ who is God, pretending to become Christians, but denying Christ in private by both secretly continuing to observe the sabbath and maintaining other Jewish practices, we decree that they shall not be received to communion or at prayer or into the church, but rather let them openly be Hebrews according to their own religion; they should not baptize their children or buy, or enter into possession of, a slave. But if one of them makes his conversion with a sincere faith and heart, and pronounces his confession wholeheartedly, disclosing their practices and objects in the hope that others may be refuted and corrected, such a person should be welcomed and baptized along with his children, and care should be taken that they abandon Hebrew practices. However if they are not of this sort, they should certainly not be welcomed.

The following internet site addresses Christian seventh day sabbath observance throughout history.

https://www.sabbathtruth.com/sabbath-history/sabbath-through-the-centuries/id/1st-century#history

Christians never ended God's seventh day sabbath observance. Some Christians thought they had the authority to change the day, and adopted Sunday as their new sabbath. They grew in numbers and influence, eventually forcing their day upon everyone else, while forbidding seventh day sabbath observance. This is the true history of Sunday sacredness. It is wholly extra biblical.

[Jaime]

In my opinion, if we ever interpret  anything Paul said as potentially contrary to Jesus' words, we have likely misinterpreted Paul.

[Rella]

Not that we have not been through this before, but, the problem with all of the above is that none of it is based upon a thus saith the Lord. Even your final statement is pure speculation. Paul never taught anywhere, that the first day of the week now replaces the seventh day sabbath because our Lord Jesus rose upon that day. No scripture teaches any such thing. To the contrary, the word's and teachings of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ conclusively contradict and warn against this exact sin. To the effect that God's commandments would and could not be changed til heaven and earth pass. Our Lord also specifically addressed and warned against humanity ignoring God's commandments by contradicting or superseding them with man made traditions. Which is exactly what this issue is really all about.


Mat 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. 5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; 6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. 7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Your statement to the effect that the apostle Paul approved of the change you are promoting, is pure conjecture. A faulty premise which scripture itself backs up nowhere. This is not to mention the faulty premise of stating that Christians believed and supported this change even during the days of the apostles. Historical record and fact, reveals that the seventh day sabbath was kept and observed by a great many Christins for many centuries  after Christ and the apostles. Including a great deal of historical testimony regarding the gradual change that took place regarding this issue.

Authentic biblical doctrine is built upon the word of God. The more biblical testimony there is, and the more conclusive the scriptures are, the more solid the foundation of doctrines or teachings are. Your teaching or belief as defended above is built upon speculation alone, concerning only two verses of scripture, which themselves do not teach at all, what you are espousing. You are effectively ignoring direct and conclusive statements of scripture, straight from the mouth of God, in favor of speculations concerning two verses. Then teaching that those speculations mean something they themselves do not even say anywhere at all. Go figure. You are of course free to choose to believe whatever you wish for whatever reasons you wish. Nevertheless, I say again, your belief is entirely extra biblical.

I find the following statement concerning this issue, to be short and historically accurate, concerning the truth of the matter, from -

Emphasis in the above quote is mine. Some Christians "felt that they had the authority to transfer the meaning of the Sabbath to the day of the Resurrection." Many others did not, and continued to observe God's sabbath. Both days were observed for many centuries, until the increasing power and influence of Roman Catholicism eventually forbade the seventh day, and forced the first day upon all. Which history has been and continues to be repeated today. Therefore are the calls for Sunday laws ever on the increase.


The following internet site addresses Christian seventh day sabbath observance throughout history.

https://www.sabbathtruth.com/sabbath-history/sabbath-through-the-centuries/id/1st-century#history

Christians never ended God's seventh day sabbath observance. Some Christians thought they had the authority to change the day, and adopted Sunday as their new sabbath. They grew in numbers and influence, eventually forcing their day upon everyone else, while forbidding seventh day sabbath observance. This is the true history of Sunday sacredness. It is wholly extra biblical.

You say....

Not that we have not been through this before, but, the problem with all of the above is that none of it is based upon a thus saith the Lord. Even your final statement is pure speculation. Paul never taught anywhere, that the first day of the week now replaces the seventh day sabbath because our Lord Jesus rose upon that day. No scripture teaches any such thing.

Paul DID....

As I said above...

As we move on into the early church it is clear that the weekly day of rest and devotion was not rejected, but was changed from Saturday to Sunday. This is nowhere commanded.

But there are two verses that suggest it happened already in the days of the apostles.

 One is Acts 20:7 which says, "On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread,[/color] Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the morrow; and he prolonged his speech until midnight." This seems to be a formal gathering for the Lord's Supper on Sunday evening, the first day of the week. (It could have been Saturday evening since by Jewish reckoning the day begins at 6:00 PM the previous evening. But Luke probably uses the Roman way of reckoning days from midnight to midnight. Cf. 4:3; 23:31f.) So it looks as though the switch to Sunday for worship had already begun.

I am certain you will claim this to be speculation.... But you cannot claim that for

The other verse that points in this direction is 1 Corinthians 16:2. Paul is trying to prepare the Corinthians for a collection that he is taking up from the churches for the saints in Jerusalem: "On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that contributions need not be made when I come." It seems that the first day of the week is now the day when Christians are performing special religious exercises.

So, if Paul is wrong then we certainly can discount a whole lot of the New Testament because he would be wrong on other things as well.

[Texas Conservative]

In my opinion, if we ever interpret  anything Paul said as potentially contrary to Jesus' words, we have likely misinterpreted Paul.

OR you didn't understand Jesus. 

[Texas Conservative]

The sabbath is under the law.  We are not under the law.

It's really that simple. 

[Amo]

You say....

Not that we have not been through this before, but, the problem with all of the above is that none of it is based upon a thus saith the Lord. Even your final statement is pure speculation. Paul never taught anywhere, that the first day of the week now replaces the seventh day sabbath because our Lord Jesus rose upon that day. No scripture teaches any such thing.

Paul DID....

As I said above...

As we move on into the early church it is clear that the weekly day of rest and devotion was not rejected, but was changed from Saturday to Sunday. This is nowhere commanded.

But there are two verses that suggest it happened already in the days of the apostles.

 One is Acts 20:7 which says, "On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread,[/color] Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the morrow; and he prolonged his speech until midnight." This seems to be a formal gathering for the Lord's Supper on Sunday evening, the first day of the week. (It could have been Saturday evening since by Jewish reckoning the day begins at 6:00 PM the previous evening. But Luke probably uses the Roman way of reckoning days from midnight to midnight. Cf. 4:3; 23:31f.) So it looks as though the switch to Sunday for worship had already begun.

I am certain you will claim this to be speculation.... But you cannot claim that for

The other verse that points in this direction is 1 Corinthians 16:2. Paul is trying to prepare the Corinthians for a collection that he is taking up from the churches for the saints in Jerusalem: "On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that contributions need not be made when I come." It seems that the first day of the week is now the day when Christians are performing special religious exercises.

So, if Paul is wrong then we certainly can discount a whole lot of the New Testament because he would be wrong on other things as well.

Like I said, pure speculation on the part of Sunday sabbath supporters. Wishful thinking at best. Paul did not teach the change of the sabbath rest from the seventh day to the first day in any way, shape, or form in the verses you shared. He was simply preaching on the first day of the week in one verse, and telling people to individually lay aside offerings to support the brethren in Jerusalem in the other. Funds that Paul would apparently distribute to the brethren in Jerusalem. A leap from these verses to a doctrine that the early church changed God's sabbath from the seventh day of the week to the first day of the week through the teaching of the apostles, is absurdity. Nothing more than Sunday keeping traditionalists grasping at straws to support an extra biblical doctrine.

This is not to mention the many verses in the New Testament admonishing all to keep the commandments of God, right up to the last chapter and book. Including Paul himself, and the straight testimony of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ testifying that God's commandments would not change til heaven and earth pass. Read and understand the following chapter of the book of Acts, in relation to the New Covenant changes the holy scriptures address which were ratified by the apostles. They are in relation to the laws of Moses, not the commandments of God. The New Testament makes it clear that many of the laws God allowed to be written for Israel by the hand of Moses, were not meant for the New Covenant era, and are now no longer required of God's faithful. On the other hand, as already stated, the commandments of God are held up as the continuing standard all throughout the New Testament.

Acts 15

Amplified Bible, Classic Edition

15:1 But some men came down from Judea and were instructing the brethren, Unless you are circumcised in accordance with the Mosaic custom, you cannot be saved. 2 And when Paul and Barnabas had no small disagreement and discussion with them, it was decided that Paul and Barnabas and some of the others of their number should go up to Jerusalem [and confer] with the apostles (special messengers) and the elders about this matter. 3 So, being fitted out and sent on their way by the church, they went through both Phoenicia and Samaria telling of the conversion of the Gentiles (the heathen), and they caused great rejoicing among all the brethren. 4 When they arrived in Jerusalem, they were heartily welcomed by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they told them all that God had accomplished through them. 5 But some who believed [who acknowledged Jesus as their Savior and devoted themselves to Him] belonged to the sect of the Pharisees, and they rose up and said, It is necessary to circumcise [the Gentile converts] and to charge them to obey the Law of Moses. 6 The apostles and the elders were assembled together to look into and consider this matter. 7 And after there had been a long debate, Peter got up and said to them, Brethren, you know that quite a while ago God made a choice or selection from among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the message of the Gospel [concerning the attainment through Christ of salvation in the kingdom of God] and believe (credit and place their confidence in it). 8 And God, Who is acquainted with and understands the heart, bore witness to them, giving them the Holy Spirit as He also did to us; 9 And He made no difference between us and them, but cleansed their hearts by faith (by a strong and welcome conviction that Jesus is the Messiah, through Whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God). 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting a yoke on the necks of the disciples, such as neither our forefathers nor we [ourselves] were able to endure? 11 But we believe that we are saved through the grace (the undeserved favor and mercy) of the Lord Jesus, just as they [are]. 12 Then the whole assembly remained silent, and they listened [attentively] as Barnabas and Paul rehearsed what signs and wonders God had performed through them among the Gentiles. 13 When they had finished talking, James replied, Brethren, listen to me. 14 Simeon [Peter] has rehearsed how God first visited the Gentiles, to take out of them a people [to bear and honor] His name. 15 And with this the predictions of the prophets agree, as it is written, 16 After this I will come back, and will rebuild the house of David, which has fallen; I will rebuild its [very] ruins, and I will set it up again, 17 So that the rest of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles upon whom My name has been invoked, 18 Says the Lord, Who has been making these things known from the beginning of the world. 19 Therefore it is my opinion that we should not put obstacles in the way of and annoy and disturb those of the Gentiles who turn to God, 20 But we should send word to them in writing to abstain from and avoid anything that has been polluted by being offered to idols, and all sexual impurity, and [eating meat of animals] that have been strangled, and [tasting of] blood. 21 For from ancient generations Moses has had his preachers in every town, for he is read [aloud] every Sabbath in the synagogues. 22 Then the apostles and the elders, together with the whole church, resolved to select men from among their number and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, [both] leading men among the brethren, and sent them. 23 With [them they sent] the following letter: The brethren, both the apostles and the elders, to the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings: 24 As we have heard that some persons from our number have disturbed you with their teaching, unsettling your minds and throwing you into confusion, although we gave them no express orders or instructions [on the points in question], 25 It has been resolved by us in assembly to select men and send them [as messengers] to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 Men who have hazarded their lives for the sake of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 So we have sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will bring you the same message by word of mouth. 28 For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to lay upon you any greater burden than these indispensable requirements: 29 That you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from [tasting] blood and from [eating the meat of animals] that have been strangled and from sexual impurity. If you keep yourselves from these things, you will do well. Farewell [be strong]! 30 So when [the messengers] were sent off, they went down to Antioch; and having assembled the congregation, they delivered the letter. 31 And when they read it, the people rejoiced at the consolation and encouragement [it brought them]. 32 And Judas and Silas, who were themselves prophets (inspired interpreters of the will and purposes of God), urged and warned and consoled and encouraged the brethren with many words and strengthened them.

Apart from the above scriptural teaching and biblical doctrine, one may read the book of Hebrews and understand that the Mosaic temple, sacrifices, and laws pertaining to the same, are no longer literally applicable to New Covenant believers. These are biblical doctrines and teachings, being conclusively stated and addressed by scripture itself.

There is no biblical teaching, doctrine, or law regarding Sunday sacredness, or the change of God's sabbath from the seventh to the first day of the week. All teachings, doctrines, traditions, and laws pertaining to Sunday sacredness, and very many there are, are extra biblical. 

[Amo]

OR you didn't understand Jesus. 

It is not the words of Jesus Himself, which the bible itself warns everyone about. The bible specifically addresses some of the writings of Paul, as being difficult to understand, which the unlearned twist unto to their own destruction.

2 Pe 3:15 And consider the patience of our Lord [His delay in judging and avenging wrongs] as salvation [that is, allowing time for more to be saved]; just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given to him [by God], 16 speaking about these things as he does in all of his letters. In which there are some things that are difficult to understand, which the untaught and unstable [who have fallen into error] twist and misinterpret, just as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. 17 Therefore, [let me warn you] beloved, knowing these things beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men [who distort doctrine] and fall from your own steadfastness [of mind, knowledge, truth, and faith], 18 but grow [spiritually mature] in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be glory (honor, majesty, splendor), both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

[Amo]

The sabbath is under the law.  We are not under the law.

It's really that simple. 

The fourth commandment is part of God's law. It is not under the law. Law breakers can be under the law, not the law itself. Why don't you listen to all of Paul's testimony, and stop picking and twisting his words unto your own interpretations?

Rom 2:12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without [regard to] the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged and condemned by the Law. 13 For it is not those who merely hear the Law [as it is read aloud] who are just or righteous before God, but it is those who [actually] obey the Law who will be justified [pronounced free of the guilt of sin and declared acceptable to Him]. 14 When Gentiles, who do not have the Law [since it was given only to Jews], do instinctively the things the Law requires [guided only by their conscience], they are a law to themselves, though they do not have the Law. 15 They show that the essential requirements of the Law are written in their hearts; and their conscience [their sense of right and wrong, their moral choices] bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or perhaps defending them 16 on that day when, as my gospel proclaims, God will judge the secrets [all the hidden thoughts and concealed sins] of men through Christ Jesus.(AMP)

rom 3:31 Do we then nullify the Law by this faith [making the Law of no effect, overthrowing it]? Certainly not! On the contrary, we confirm and establish and uphold the Law [since it convicts us all of sin, pointing to the need for salvation].(AMP)

Rom 7:12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good. 13 Did that which is good [the Law], then become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, in order that it might be revealed as sin, was producing death in me by [using] this good thing [as a weapon], so that through the commandment sin would become exceedingly sinful. 14 We know that the Law is spiritual, but I am a creature of the flesh [worldly, self-reliant—carnal and unspiritual], sold into slavery to sin [and serving under its control].(AMP)

8 Therefore there is now no condemnation [no guilty verdict, no punishment] for those who are in Christ Jesus [who believe in Him as personal Lord and Savior]. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life [which is] in Christ Jesus [the law of our new being] has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the Law could not do [that is, overcome sin and remove its penalty, its power] being weakened by the flesh [man's nature without the Holy Spirit], God did: He sent His own Son in the likeness of sinful man as an offering for sin. And He condemned sin in the flesh [subdued it and overcame it in the person of His own Son], 4 so that the [righteous and just] requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not live our lives in the ways of the flesh [guided by worldliness and our sinful nature], but [live our lives] in the ways of the Spirit [guided by His power]. 5 For those who are living according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh [which gratify the body], but those who are living according to the Spirit, [set their minds on] the things of the Spirit [His will and purpose]. 6 Now the mind of the flesh is death [both now and forever—because it pursues sin]; but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace [the spiritual well-being that comes from walking with God—both now and forever]; 7 the mind of the flesh [with its sinful pursuits] is actively hostile to God. It does not submit itself to God's law, since it cannot, 8 and those who are in the flesh [living a life that caters to sinful appetites and impulses] cannot please God.(AMP)

1 Cor 7:17 Only, let each one live the life which the Lord has assigned him, and to which God has called him [for each person is unique and is accountable for his choices and conduct, let him walk in this way]. This is the rule I make in all the churches. 18 Was anyone at the time of his calling [from God already] circumcised? He is not to become uncircumcised. Has anyone been called while uncircumcised? He is not to be circumcised. 19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is keeping the commandments of God. 20 Each one should remain in the condition in which he was [when he was] called.

[Rella]

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

That would be in the Garden of Eden, with Adam and Eve, after our Lord Jesus had finished creating this world.

Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: 10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

And if a work weeks starts on a WED?

True story...

When I was self- employed I put in those 14 to 16 hour days and many, many times 7 days a week to meet  deadlines.

I had to as I had a schedule all worked out and I had to keep to it.

I do not know exactly when  it was that  one day... and I was so mentally and physically tired that it occurred to me that I would take Sunday off.

Holy Spirit prompting?

Anyway... I made a schedule and it was not going to fit if I did that but I did and amazingly by Monday night I had what I would have done on Sunday and Monday completed.

And the following week and still the following.

It was only at the holiday times... crunch times ... I would need to call a few people and ask them if it would destroy their holiday if I did them after the holiday and give them a nice discount. Almost always people were happy to save mone.

Cute story.

I always tried to finish work before Thanksgiving week because company coming and house, and shopping, and food prep etc took days.

One time I called a client and told her I was snowed under and could I wait to get her done until after Thanksgiving.

She said trrhat would be fine... looking for her discount.

She said she did not need for Thanksgiving... not until the day after

Well that was one year I got her done and before Thanksgiving... and no discount.

Anyway... It was not my ability to be able to complete the schedule
when I started to take Sundays as my days of rest. I gave and give God all the glory for that.

We do not know that Sunday was even the first day in creation week because days were not named then.

God rested on the 7th. True.

But also I believe if you work for and 6 days consecutively and rest on the 7th that counts. (Including your worship preference)

My mom is in a therapy home for a broken femur next to her hip replacement.

She cannot stand... or walk... and does not remember due to advance dementia.

Today ends her 2nd week there and someone has to do eveyry thing for her or help her.

What do you think would have happened Saturday or Yesterday if there was no help???//

Is God going to punish those people?

[Rella]

Like I said, pure speculation on the part of Sunday sabbath supporters. Wishful thinking at best. Paul did not teach the change of the sabbath rest from the seventh day to the first day in any way, shape, or form in the verses you shared. He was simply preaching on the first day of the week in one verse, and telling people to individually lay aside offerings to support the brethren in Jerusalem in the other. Funds that Paul would apparently distribute to the brethren in Jerusalem. A leap from these verses to a doctrine that the early church changed God's sabbath from the seventh day of the week to the first day of the week through the teaching of the apostles, is absurdity. Nothing more than Sunday keeping traditionalists grasping at straws to support an extra biblical doctrine.

This is not to mention the many verses in the New Testament admonishing all to keep the commandments of God, right up to the last chapter and book. Including Paul himself, and the straight testimony of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ testifying that God's commandments would not change til heaven and earth pass. Read and understand the following chapter of the book of Acts, in relation to the New Covenant changes the holy scriptures address which were ratified by the apostles. They are in relation to the laws of Moses, not the commandments of God. The New Testament makes it clear that many of the laws God allowed to be written for Israel by the hand of Moses, were not meant for the New Covenant era, and are now no longer required of God's faithful. On the other hand, as already stated, the commandments of God are held up as the continuing standard all throughout the New Testament.

Acts 15

Amplified Bible, Classic Edition

15:1 But some men came down from Judea and were instructing the brethren, Unless you are circumcised in accordance with the Mosaic custom, you cannot be saved. 2 And when Paul and Barnabas had no small disagreement and discussion with them, it was decided that Paul and Barnabas and some of the others of their number should go up to Jerusalem [and confer] with the apostles (special messengers) and the elders about this matter. 3 So, being fitted out and sent on their way by the church, they went through both Phoenicia and Samaria telling of the conversion of the Gentiles (the heathen), and they caused great rejoicing among all the brethren. 4 When they arrived in Jerusalem, they were heartily welcomed by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they told them all that God had accomplished through them. 5 But some who believed [who acknowledged Jesus as their Savior and devoted themselves to Him] belonged to the sect of the Pharisees, and they rose up and said, It is necessary to circumcise [the Gentile converts] and to charge them to obey the Law of Moses. 6 The apostles and the elders were assembled together to look into and consider this matter. 7 And after there had been a long debate, Peter got up and said to them, Brethren, you know that quite a while ago God made a choice or selection from among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the message of the Gospel [concerning the attainment through Christ of salvation in the kingdom of God] and believe (credit and place their confidence in it). 8 And God, Who is acquainted with and understands the heart, bore witness to them, giving them the Holy Spirit as He also did to us; 9 And He made no difference between us and them, but cleansed their hearts by faith (by a strong and welcome conviction that Jesus is the Messiah, through Whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God). 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting a yoke on the necks of the disciples, such as neither our forefathers nor we [ourselves] were able to endure? 11 But we believe that we are saved through the grace (the undeserved favor and mercy) of the Lord Jesus, just as they [are]. 12 Then the whole assembly remained silent, and they listened [attentively] as Barnabas and Paul rehearsed what signs and wonders God had performed through them among the Gentiles. 13 When they had finished talking, James replied, Brethren, listen to me. 14 Simeon [Peter] has rehearsed how God first visited the Gentiles, to take out of them a people [to bear and honor] His name. 15 And with this the predictions of the prophets agree, as it is written, 16 After this I will come back, and will rebuild the house of David, which has fallen; I will rebuild its [very] ruins, and I will set it up again, 17 So that the rest of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles upon whom My name has been invoked, 18 Says the Lord, Who has been making these things known from the beginning of the world. 19 Therefore it is my opinion that we should not put obstacles in the way of and annoy and disturb those of the Gentiles who turn to God, 20 But we should send word to them in writing to abstain from and avoid anything that has been polluted by being offered to idols, and all sexual impurity, and [eating meat of animals] that have been strangled, and [tasting of] blood. 21 For from ancient generations Moses has had his preachers in every town, for he is read [aloud] every Sabbath in the synagogues. 22 Then the apostles and the elders, together with the whole church, resolved to select men from among their number and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, [both] leading men among the brethren, and sent them. 23 With [them they sent] the following letter: The brethren, both the apostles and the elders, to the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings: 24 As we have heard that some persons from our number have disturbed you with their teaching, unsettling your minds and throwing you into confusion, although we gave them no express orders or instructions [on the points in question], 25 It has been resolved by us in assembly to select men and send them [as messengers] to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 Men who have hazarded their lives for the sake of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 So we have sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will bring you the same message by word of mouth. 28 For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to lay upon you any greater burden than these indispensable requirements: 29 That you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from [tasting] blood and from [eating the meat of animals] that have been strangled and from sexual impurity. If you keep yourselves from these things, you will do well. Farewell [be strong]! 30 So when [the messengers] were sent off, they went down to Antioch; and having assembled the congregation, they delivered the letter. 31 And when they read it, the people rejoiced at the consolation and encouragement [it brought them]. 32 And Judas and Silas, who were themselves prophets (inspired interpreters of the will and purposes of God), urged and warned and consoled and encouraged the brethren with many words and strengthened them.

Apart from the above scriptural teaching and biblical doctrine, one may read the book of Hebrews and understand that the Mosaic temple, sacrifices, and laws pertaining to the same, are no longer literally applicable to New Covenant believers. These are biblical doctrines and teachings, being conclusively stated and addressed by scripture itself.

There is no biblical teaching, doctrine, or law regarding Sunday sacredness, or the change of God's sabbath from the seventh to the first day of the week. All teachings, doctrines, traditions, and laws pertaining to Sunday sacredness, and very many there are, are extra biblical.

No... the biblical teaching is on the 7th day.... from your usual and customary work.  Even all food preparation had to be completed before that 6PM on a Friday.

Paul said to set aside money.... on the first day of the week he said that. Was that to be held until the following Saturday?  ....

UMMMMMMMMMM even if you believe that it would NOT have been Saturday it would have been until Friday 6PM or later.

For even up through the crucifixion we follow things as Friday 6PM the start of their Sabbath.

I believe Paul was showing that the First day was acceptable.

And if you feel Paul was wrong... he likely was wrong in a lot of things he said.

[Amo]

No... the biblical teaching is on the 7th day.... from your usual and customary work.  Even all food preparation had to be completed before that 6PM on a Friday.

Paul said to set aside money.... on the first day of the week he said that. Was that to be held until the following Saturday?  ....

UMMMMMMMMMM even if you believe that it would NOT have been Saturday it would have been until Friday 6PM or later.

For even up through the crucifixion we follow things as Friday 6PM the start of their Sabbath.

I believe Paul was showing that the First day was acceptable.

And if you feel Paul was wrong... he likely was wrong in a lot of things he said.

Paul was not wrong, you are. He never said anything you are attributing to him, regarding a Sunday sabbath. It is all pure conjecture.

Isa 55:1 Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price. 2 Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness. 3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David. 4 Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people. 5 Behold, thou shalt call a nation that thou knowest not, and nations that knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the LORD thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath glorified thee. 6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: 7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. 8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. 10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: 11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. 12 For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands. 13 Instead of the thorn shall come up the fir tree, and instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle tree: and it shall be to the LORD for a name, for an everlasting sign that shall not be cut off.

Isa 56:1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed. 2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil. 3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree. 4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant; 5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off. 6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; 7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people. 8 The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.

What is the above, but a prophecy concerning those of the many nations of the world who would come to God through Christ Jesus our Lord during the New Covenant. Who would be blessed by keeping God's sabbath. A prophecy concerning those the book of revelation speaks about, who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 12:17  And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12  Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

[Rella]

Paul was not wrong, you are. He never said anything you are attributing to him, regarding a Sunday sabbath. It is all pure conjecture.

 Take it up with the bible.....

He did not have to say it.... he did it.

 One is Acts 20:7 which says, "On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them,[/color] intending to depart on the morrow; and he prolonged his speech until midnight." This seems to be a formal gathering for the Lord's Supper on Sunday evening, the first day of the week. (It could have been Saturday evening since by Jewish reckoning the day begins at 6:00 PM the previous evening. But Luke probably uses the Roman way of reckoning days from midnight to midnight. Cf. 4:3; 23:31f.) So it looks as though the switch to Sunday for worship had already begun.

I am certain you will claim this to be speculation.... But you cannot claim that for

The other verse that points in this direction is 1 Corinthians 16:2. Paul is trying to prepare the Corinthians for a collection that he is taking up from the churches for the saints in Jerusalem: "On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that contributions need not be made when I come." It seems that the first day of the week is now the day when Christians are performing special religious exercises.

[Amo]

Go to, worship on the day of the sun with Babylon the great, because Paul told some Corinthians that each of them should put something aside on the first day of the week to be collected later when Paul returned. Which by the way, would not be any kind of special religious exercise. They were to do so individually, so that there would be no need for a gathering when Paul returned. I will follow the instructions of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, whom I am very sure the apostle Paul did not contradict with personal adverse teachings such as that you are espousing. 

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Acts 20:7 is not a gathering to celebrate the Lord's Supper, it is a meeting at which the attendees ate a meal, which is what is most often meant in scripture by the term breaking of bread. Not the religious exercise of performing the Lord's Supper.

Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. 28 And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and he made as though he would have gone further. 29 But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them. 30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them. 31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.

Act 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. 43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. 44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common; 45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. 46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, 47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Act 27:31 Paul said to the centurion and to the soldiers, Except these abide in the ship, ye cannot be saved. 32 Then the soldiers cut off the ropes of the boat, and let her fall off. 33 And while the day was coming on, Paul besought them all to take meat, saying, This day is the fourteenth day that ye have tarried and continued fasting, having taken nothing. 34 Wherefore I pray you to take some meat: for this is for your health: for there shall not an hair fall from the head of any of you. 35 And when he had thus spoken, he took bread, and gave thanks to God in presence of them all: and when he had broken it, he began to eat. 36 Then were they all of good cheer, and they also took some meat. 37 And we were in all in the ship two hundred threescore and sixteen souls. 38 And when they had eaten enough, they lightened the ship, and cast out the wheat into the sea.

None of the above accounts are about the celebration of the Lord's Supper. Breaking bread simply means eating or sharing a meal together, unless it is mentioned in specific relation to the Lord's Supper. Even the verses you are saying are talking about the celebration of the Lord's Supper, make it obvious in the same context shared, that the breaking of bread is simply referring to eating of food. Not a celebration of the Lord's Supper.

Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight. 8 And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together. 9 And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead. 10 And Paul went down, and fell on him, and embracing him said, Trouble not yourselves; for his life is in him. 11 When he therefore was come up again, and had broken bread, and eaten, and talked a long while, even till break of day, so he departed. 12 And they brought the young man alive, and were not a little comforted.

So do you think that in the telling of the same story within just a few sentences, breaking bread meant the Lord's Supper in the first mention, but then just eating in the second mention? Or are those who wish Sunday sacredness to be a scriptural truth, just grabbing what straws they may to support such? The testimony of history itself in relation to Sunday sabbath observance, rather conclusively suggests the latter scenario.

Nevertheless, everyone is of course free to choose to believe whatever they wish. To construct as they say nowadays, their truth. Jesus Christ however, is the way, the truth, and the life. None will have life but by Him.

Sunday laws of course, tend to take away peoples choice regarding the matter.

[Hobie]

Sorry I am confused where in that does it say we must worship on the sabbath? It looks more like a misuse of scripture to me please clarify the connection.

What does it say in the Ten Commandments...

[Rella]

What does it say in the Ten Commandments...

Your title asks " What will happen to Christians who reject the Sabbath?"

Then you ask What does it say in the Ten Commandments?

Small reminder. The 10 commandments were given to the Jews. They were law under the OT .

When Jesus came he said...

Matt 5:17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

https://biblehub.com/topical/c/christ_as_the_fulfillment_of_the_sabbath.htm

Christ as the Fulfillment of the Sabbath

Topical Encyclopedia
The concept of the Sabbath is deeply rooted in the biblical narrative, originating in the creation account where God rested on the seventh day (Genesis 2:2-3). The Sabbath was later codified in the Mosaic Law as a day of rest and worship, a sign of the covenant between God and Israel (Exodus 20:8-11; Deuteronomy 5:12-15). However, in the New Testament, Jesus Christ is presented as the fulfillment of the Sabbath, embodying its ultimate purpose and significance.

Sabbath in the Old Testament

The Sabbath was instituted as a day of rest, reflecting God's rest after creation. It served as a reminder of God's provision and a symbol of the covenant with Israel. The commandment to observe the Sabbath was a call to cease from labor and to trust in God's sovereignty and provision. The Sabbath was also a day of worship and reflection, a time to focus on God's holiness and His relationship with His people.

Christ's Relationship to the Sabbath

In the Gospels, Jesus' actions and teachings often challenged the prevailing interpretations of the Sabbath. He healed on the Sabbath (Mark 3:1-6; Luke 13:10-17), emphasizing mercy over ritualistic observance. Jesus declared, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath" (Mark 2:27-28). This statement highlights His authority over the Sabbath and points to a deeper understanding of its purpose.

Fulfillment in Christ

The New Testament writers, particularly in the book of Hebrews, present Christ as the fulfillment of the Sabbath rest. Hebrews 4:9-10 states, "So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. For whoever enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from His." This passage indicates that the true Sabbath rest is found in Christ, who provides spiritual rest and peace with God through His redemptive work.

Spiritual Rest in Christ

The rest that Christ offers is not merely physical cessation from labor but a profound spiritual rest. In Matthew 11:28-30 , Jesus invites, "Come to Me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls." This rest is characterized by freedom from the burden of sin and the law, achieved through faith in Christ's atoning sacrifice.

Implications for Believers

For believers, Christ's fulfillment of the Sabbath means that the observance of a specific day is no longer a legalistic requirement but a spiritual reality. The Apostle Paul addresses this in Colossians 2:16-17 , "Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a festival, a New Moon, or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the body that casts it belongs to Christ." The Sabbath, as a shadow, finds its substance in Christ, who provides eternal rest.

In summary, Christ as the fulfillment of the Sabbath signifies the transition from the Old Covenant's ritual observance to the New Covenant's spiritual rest. Through His life, death, and resurrection, Jesus embodies the true meaning of the Sabbath, offering believers rest from their labors and reconciliation with God.

And if the above article is confusing to you, here is Got Questions which explains things further, and easier for folks who have a comprehension issue.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Sabbath-keeping.html Bolding and color changes are mine.

In the early chapters of the book of Acts, the first Christians were predominantly Jews. When Gentiles began to receive the gift of salvation through Jesus Christ, the Jewish Christians had a dilemma. What aspects of the Mosaic Law and Jewish tradition should Gentile Christians be instructed to obey? The apostles met and discussed the issue in the Jerusalem council (Acts 15). The decision was, "It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood" (Acts 15:19-20). Sabbath-keeping was not one of the commands the apostles felt was necessary to force on Gentile believers. It is inconceivable that the apostles would neglect to include Sabbath-keeping if it was God's command for Christians to observe the Sabbath day.

A common error in the Sabbath-keeping debate is the concept that the Sabbath was the day of worship. Groups such as the Seventh Day Adventists hold that God requires the church service to be held on Saturday, the Sabbath day. That is not what the Sabbath command was. The Sabbath command was to do no work on the Sabbath day (Exodus 20:8-11). Yes, Jews in Old Testament, New Testament, and modern times use Saturday as the day of worship, but that is not the essence of the Sabbath command. In the book of Acts, whenever a meeting is said to be on the Sabbath, it is a meeting of Jews and/or Gentile converts to Judaism, not Christians.

When did the early Christians meet? Acts 2:46-47 gives us the answer, "Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved." If there was a day that Christians met regularly, it was the first day of the week (our Sunday), not the Sabbath day (our Saturday) (Acts 20:7; 1 Corinthians 16:2). In honor of Christ's resurrection on Sunday, the early Christians observed Sunday not as the "Christian Sabbath" but as a day to especially worship Jesus Christ.

Is there anything wrong with worshiping on Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath? Absolutely not! We should worship God every day, not just on Saturday or Sunday! Many churches today have both Saturday and Sunday services. There is freedom in Christ (Romans 8:21; 2 Corinthians 3:17; Galatians 5:1). Should a Christian practice Sabbath-keeping, that is, not working on Saturdays? If a Christian feels led to do so, absolutely, yes (Romans 14:5). However, those who choose to practice Sabbath-keeping should not judge those who do not keep the Sabbath (Colossians 2:16). Further, those who do not keep the Sabbath should avoid being a stumbling block (1 Corinthians 8:9) to those who do keep the Sabbath. Galatians 5:13-15 sums up the whole issue: "You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. The entire law is summed up in a single command: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.[/size]"

So IN ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION OF : What will happen to Christians who reject the Sabbath?

Since Jesus became the Sabbath for "born again" Christians... a heck of a lot of bad things if they reject Jesus.

[Amo]

The twisted truths you have embraced above, are revealed in the misuse of the first scripture they quoted. By which they remove Mat 5:17 from its original context and meaning, and replace it with their own false teachings thereafter. As is done with all of the scriptures they or you used in your arguments.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

The articles you quoted and therefore you yourself, have ripped the word of God out of its proper context, and replaced it with your own false teaching or prophesying. The same can be and has been proved to be so on this very thread and many others many times over, regarding the rest of the scriptures your quoted articles supply. They are either taken out of their original or proper context, or made to completely contradict other conclusive statements of holy scripture. Which you and they choose to completely ignore in defense of what you have chosen to believe. Standing on very dangerous ground.

Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! 21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight! 22 Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink: 23 Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him! 24 Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.

Isa 30:8 Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever: 9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD: 10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:

Ezk 13:1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 2 Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel that prophesy, and say thou unto them that prophesy out of their own hearts, Hear ye the word of the LORD; 3 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing! 4 O Israel, thy prophets are like the foxes in the deserts. 5 Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD. 6 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The LORD saith: and the LORD hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word. 7 Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, The LORD saith it; albeit I have not spoken? 8 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD. 9 And mine hand shall be upon the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies: they shall not be in the assembly of my people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither shall they enter into the land of Israel; and ye shall know that I am the Lord GOD.

The Lord has not said that which you are teaching, preaching, and defending anywhere. It is not built upon the word of God at all, but by twisting and mutilating that word unto that which plainly contradicts what God's word has and does actually say. As usual, Paul's writings are heavily leaned upon, the scriptures themselves pointing out the dangers of those who were already twisting his testimony before the apostles were gone.

2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. 15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. 18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

[Jaime]

I think a discussion about the meaning of "abolish" and particularly "fulfill" in Mathew 5:17 would be useful.

To me Jesus's theme in Chaper 5 of Mathew, the sermon on the Mount is someone HAS Abolished  or undermined the Torah by misinterpreting it. He is saying I didn't come to abolish Torah, but to fulfill it. The key seems to be in the meaning of fulfill as it is contrasted to abolish as both relate to the Law or the Torah.

[Jaime]

From Blue Letter Bible App:

The Greek word for fulfill (Stong's number 4137)

Transliteration: plēroō
Pronunciation: play-ro'-o
Part of Speech: verb
Root Word (Etymology): From πλήρης (G4134)
TDNT Reference: 6:286,867
Outline of Biblical Usage:
to make full, to fill up, i.e. to fill to the full
to cause to abound, to furnish or supply liberally
I abound, I am liberally supplied
to render full, i.e. to complete
to fill to the top: so that nothing shall be wanting to full measure, fill to the brim
to consummate: a number
to make complete in every particular, to render perfect
to carry through to the end, to accomplish, carry out, (some undertaking)
to carry into effect, bring to realisation, realise
of matters of duty: to perform, execute
of sayings, promises, prophecies, to bring to pass, ratify, accomplish
to fulfil, i.e. to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment
KJV Translation Count: 90x
The KJV translates Strongs G4137 in the following manner: fulfil (51x), fill (19x), be full (7x), complete (2x), end (2x), misc (9x).
Strong's Definitions: πληρόω plēróō, play-ro'-o; from G4134; to make replete, i.e. (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.:—accomplish, × after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.


My summary:

Jesus said he was going to be about filling up that which the Pharisees had emptied or abolished in first century Jewish vernacular. He was properly interpreting the Law that the Jewish leaders had boogered up! (He was upsetting their invented paradigm.

As Mathew 5 delineates, don't  just cease murdering, don't even hold anger in your heart. Don't just avoid the overt act of adultery, don't even harbor lust in your  heart. He raised the bar, he didn't abolish the bar. He re-placed what the Pharisees had effectively removed from Law, the Spirit of the Law, back ro what God intended of the Law. The Pharisees had effectively abolished Torah or emptied it of God's intended purpose. Jesus came to fill it back up (fill full or fulfill) to what God intended, a nkessing not a butden - The theme of the entire Sermon on the Mount in Mathew 5, in my opinion.

[Rella]

author=Jaime link=msg=1055220004 date=1736639384]
I think a discussion about the meaning of "abolish" and particularly "fulfill" in Mathew 5:17 would be useful.

To me Jesus's theme in Chaper 5 of Mathew, the sermon on the Mount is someone HAS Abolished  or undermined the Torah by misinterpreting it. He is saying I didn't come to abolish Torah, but to fulfill it. The key seems to be in the meaning of fulfill as it is contrasted to abolish as both relate to the Law or the Torah.

I agree Jaime.

But until certain people understand that Jesus is our Sabbath rest, it will fall on deaf ears.... or it is proven that He is not..... 

There are examples, provided above when they gathered and did
sabbathy (I know not a word but conveys my meaning) things on the first day of the week. That is ignored or someone somewhere will comment they did not celebrate the Sabbath.. with no proof.

So let me submit this to start.

I generally use quotes from people more learned then I to avoid the comments like.....(from above)

"The twisted truths you have embraced above, are revealed in the misuse of the first scripture they quoted. By which they remove Mat 5:17 from its original context and meaning, and replace it with their own false teachings thereafter. As is done with all of the scriptures they or you used in your arguments."

So I am not directly blamed other then my alleged accusing of
 my inability to understand truth.

So the following link is quite lengthy but I chose just part of it
to start a discussion and see what we really can learn.

IF TRUE... I WILL BE THE FIRST TO LEARN A CORRECTION TO SOMETHING THAT I HAVE ALWAYS READ AND THOUGHT. (No it is not from Got questions)

https://biblicaltruth.net/scripture-study-by-verse/matthew-verses/does-fulfilled-mean-completed-matthew-517-study/

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill (teach fully, bring full meaning to, or to magnify).

The last word is that verse is Fulfill (English) or in GREEK it was derived from (plēroō). Most believe that this means to "complete". This word means to teach fully, bring full meaning to, or to magnify. SO plug that in and try that verse again.

The Messiah is saying that HE came to teach the LAW to everybody in FULL, TO FULLY TEACH or TO MAGNIFY ITS MEANING. HE was showing us that what the Pharisees were teaching went against Torah. They were adding their own man-made tradition into the teaching of the Torah. The Messiah came to teach what HE meant from the beginning (TORAH). This is still alive today.

Now to show that the word Fulfill in that verse does mean to teach fully, bring full meaning to, or to magnify, here is a verse about something else, using the same word from the Greek word (plēroō).

Romans 15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have teach fulfilled (fully taught, brought full meaning to, or to magnified) the gospel of Christ.

If we are taught the word Fulfill in the Matthew verse above means COMPLETED then insert COMPLETED into this Romans verse where Paul says (fulfilled) below because that word in the original Greek writings was plēroō, the same word that appears in the Matthew verse above.

Romans 15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fulfilled (insert COMPLETED here ) the gospel of Christ. (this would mean he is done and no longer needed). Could you imagine if Paul quit preaching at that point and decided that his job was Completed?

Here is another verse that has to do with Fulfill (Plēroō from Greek)

Luke 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
If you substitute the word "completed" for Fulfilled that would mean that the scripture has been completed in your ear. How can anything be completed inside an ear? If the scriptures were completed in this Luke verse we wouldn't need the rest of the Bible after Luke supposedly completed it in everybody's ear. The word Fufilled in that Luke verse means to bring meaning to. If you hear something that doesn't quite make sense, somebody can come along and bring meaning to what you are hearing and then it would make sense to you. Our Messiah brought meaning to the old law and magnified it. HE showed us that we are to be obedient to HIS commands since the beginning and have Faith in HIM , HE will "set us free".

So if anyone says to you "The Messiah did away with the law because he completed it", you can show these to verses back to back.

Here are a couple other verses we came across. The Messiah didn't come to complete the law according to these verses.

Here are some verses from John stating the real reason Yeshua came:

1st John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. (So the son of Man, Messiah, was born to destroy the works of the devil...more proof that Fulfill in the Matthew verse can't mean COMPLETE)

1st John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. (This verse states he came to show us the TRUTH, and we that believe in the TRUTH and follow the TRUTH are of HIM and HIS son the Messiah of Salvation Yeshua...)....WOW... love this stuff...this again shows that nothing has been COMPLETED.....

[Jaime]

Rella to me verses 18 & 19 of Mathew chapter 5 lends some important context to vs 17.

18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
19 "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus properly interpreted the law to restore what had been emptied of the Law by the Pharisees. They were Letter of the Law ONLY people. Jesus filled it full back to what God intended with the spirit of the Law, thankfully.


Obviously heaven and earth have not passed away, and there is a warning to anyone who teaches anyone else who would annul  the least of the commandments.

[Rella]

Rella to me verses 18 & 19 of Mathew chapter 5 lends some important context to vs 17.

18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
19 "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus properly interpreted the law to restore what had been emptied of the Law by the Pharisees. They were Letter of the Law ONLY people. Jesus filled it full back to what God intended with the spirit of the Law, thankfully.


Obviously heaven and earth have not passed away, and there is a warning to anyone who teaches anyone else who would annul  the least of the commandments.

I will not argue against your logic. And from what I posted above then it seems that Amo may well be right?

For the 10 were law to the Jew.

[Jaime]

I haven't decided who is right, but there does seem to be some issues I would like further discussion on. I have more questions than answers. But THAT's what Bible stidybis all about. Personally I am not content to inherit other people's interpretations. I DO think we collectively could have some things wrong that we held as rock solid before. And definitive statements like Mathew 5:17 inspire some serious questions if we are honest. Our long jeld belief about the definition of things like the definition of abolish  and fulfill definitey me to dig deeper.

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

From Blue Letter Bible App:

The Greek word for fulfill (Stong's number 4137)

Transliteration: plēroō
Pronunciation: play-ro'-o
Part of Speech: verb
Root Word (Etymology): From πλήρης (G4134)
TDNT Reference: 6:286,867
Outline of Biblical Usage:
to make full, to fill up, i.e. to fill to the full
to cause to abound, to furnish or supply liberally
I abound, I am liberally supplied
to render full, i.e. to complete
to fill to the top: so that nothing shall be wanting to full measure, fill to the brim
to consummate: a number
to make complete in every particular, to render perfect
to carry through to the end, to accomplish, carry out, (some undertaking)
to carry into effect, bring to realisation, realise
of matters of duty: to perform, execute
of sayings, promises, prophecies, to bring to pass, ratify, accomplish
to fulfil, i.e. to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment
KJV Translation Count: 90x
The KJV translates Strongs G4137 in the following manner: fulfil (51x), fill (19x), be full (7x), complete (2x), end (2x), misc (9x).
Strong's Definitions: πληρόω plēróō, play-ro'-o; from G4134; to make replete, i.e. (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.:—accomplish, × after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.


My summary:

Jesus said he was going to be about filling up that which the Pharisees had emptied or abolished in first century Jewish vernacular. He was properly interpreting the Law that the Jewish leaders had boogered up! (He was upsetting their invented paradigm.

As Mathew 5 delineates, don't  just cease murdering, don't even hold anger in your heart. Don't just avoid the overt act of adultery, don't even harbor lust in your  heart. He raised the bar, he didn't abolish the bar. He re-placed what the Pharisees had effectively removed from Law, the Spirit of the Law, back ro what God intended of the Law. The Pharisees had effectively abolished Torah or emptied it of God's intended purpose. Jesus came to fill it back up (fill full or fulfill) to what God intended, a nkessing not a butden - The theme of the entire Sermon on the Mount in Mathew 5, in my opinion.

The Biblical idea of the soul/spirit living in the body is rooted in the idea of water/air being held in a container. When a person expresses their thoughts through speaking, they "pour out their soul" or "pour out their spirit." So far so good?

What about when God expresses His thoughts through speaking? A prophet is involved, yes. But it's still a "pouring out." We say that a prophecy is "filled" because what-was-poured-out returns, having caused the thing to happen.

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goes forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

[Jaime]

Prophecies are FULFILLED OR NOT in that vain. The word in Mathew 5:17 has a primary meaning of fill full, fill up. Prophecies are fulfilled  in a different sense than Laws or other things especially in a context like this passage where Law or Torah was effectively emptied or "abolished" in the first century vernacular. Fill full is the direct opposite of empty or abolish. Prophecies are either ratified by coming true or they are proved false by not coming true. How did the Pharisees empty the Law or Torah, one might ask? By effectively removing the spirit of the Law as God intended and making a career of the LETTER of the law as Jesus was pointing out in the entire Sermon on the Mount. Which totally torqued the Pharisees obviously among other issues with Jesus.

[Jaime]

An article on the useage of the terms abolish or fulfill the torah or the Law:

https://ffoz.org/torahportions/commentary/fulfilling-the-torah

[Rella]

An article on the useage of the terms abolish or fulfill the torah or the Law:

https://ffoz.org/torahportions/commentary/fulfilling-the-torah

 

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Prophecies are FULFILLED OR NOT in that vain. The word in Mathew 5:17 has a primary meaning of fill full, fill up. Prophecies are fulfilled  in a different sense than Laws or other things especially in a context like this passage where Law or Torah was effectively emptied or "abolished" in the first century vernacular. Fill full is the direct opposite of empty or abolish. Prophecies are either ratified by coming true or they are proved false by not coming true. How did the Pharisees empty the Law or Torah, one might ask? By effectively removing the spirit of the Law as God intended and making a career of the LETTER of the law as Jesus was pointing out in the entire Sermon on the Mount. Which totally torqued the Pharisees obviously among other issues with Jesus.

You "bind" or "loose" laws to enact or abolish them, in Hebrew.  There is no idea of making a law "empty." 

The idea of "pour out" has to do with speaking what's on your mind.  "Filling up" is when the thing spoken happens.  We do usually think of that in terms of prophecy, but it doesn't have to be a prediction.  For instance...

Matthew 2:15 quotes Hosea 11:1 "Out of Egypt I have called my Son" and calls it a "fulfillment."  But Hosea didn't predict anything!  And he wasn't talking about Jesus!

Hosea 11:1  When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

[Jaime]

Yes, concerning prophecy that is correct. However concerning the LAW, Jesus DEMONSTRATED in the Sermon on the Mount HOW God's  laws had been emptied of the intended Spirit of the Law. He repeatedly said, " you have heard it said, but I say to you......". He properly interpreted God's Law that had been effectively "abolished" or emptied of its essence that God intended. Don't just not commit the act of murder, don't even harbor anger in your heart. Etc. He is filling the Law back up of what it was emptied of by the Pharisees consumed with the Letter only of the Law. Jewish rabbis in the first century would banter back and forth about who is fulfiling Torah (properly interpretting it) or abolishing Torah by interpreting Torah incorrectly. Jesus settled it  in the Sermon on the Mount. And made the statement in Mathew 5:17. He was in effect saying I didn't come to abolish Torah with faulty interpretation. i uphold and properly interpret Torah in the examples of mu sermon here, filling up ith proper interpretation what these clowns (Pharisees) emptied with their faulty interpretation. If not Mathew 5:18 & 19 is really a puzzle with 5:17 just in the rear view mirror. Fulfill here cannot mean complete or end or 5:18 &19 are ridiculous statements.

Why would Jesus use the abolish and fulfill idiom if it wasn't a well known idiom in the first century used in discussions of the interpretation of Torah. He pointed to many examples of the Pharisees incorrectly interpretting Torah or in effect emptying it of God's intended meaning and describing how he would fill it full with proper interpretation back to what God intended.

[Rella]

Yes, concerning prophecy that is correct. However concerning the LAW, Jesus DEMONSTRATED in the Sermon on the Mount HOW God's  laws had been emptied of the intended Spirit of the Law. He repeatedly said, " you have heard it said, but I say to you......". He properly interpreted God's Law that had been effectively "abolished" or emptied of its essence that God intended. Don't just not commit the act of murder, don't even harbor anger in your heart. Etc. He is filling the Law back up of what it was emptied of by the Pharisees consumed with the Letter only of the Law. Jewish rabbis in the first century would banter back and forth about who is fulfiling Torah (properly interpretting it) or abolishing Torah by interpreting Torah incorrectly. Jesus settled it  in the Sermon on the Mount. And made the statement in Mathew 5:17. He was in effect saying I didn't come to abolish Torah with faulty interpretation. i uphold and properly interpret Torah in the examples of mu sermon here, filling up ith proper interpretation what these clowns (Pharisees) emptied with their faulty interpretation. If not Mathew 5:18 & 19 is really a puzzle with 5:17 just in the rear view mirror. Fulfill here cannot mean complete or end or 5:18 &19 are ridiculous statements.

Why woild Jesus use the abolish and fulfill idiom if it wasn't a well known idiom in the first century used in discussions of the interpretation of Torah. He pointed to many exampls of the Pharisees incorrectly interpretting Torah or in effect emptying it, and describing how he would fill it full.

Good points Jaime, but

if what I post below from the link above is correct.... would that change your mind on fulfilled meaning at all?

From that above link.

https://biblicaltruth.net/scripture-study-by-verse/matthew-verses/does-fulfilled-mean-completed-matthew-517-study/
"Here is a side-by-side comparison of two verses:

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill (teach fully, bring full meaning to, or to magnify).

The last word is that verse is Fulfill (English) or in GREEK it was derived from (plēroō). Most believe that this means to "complete". This word means to teach fully, bring full meaning to, or to magnify. SO plug that in and try that verse again.

The Messiah is saying that HE came to teach the LAW to everybody in FULL, TO FULLY TEACH or TO MAGNIFY ITS MEANING. HE was showing us that what the Pharisees were teaching went against Torah. They were adding their own man-made tradition into the teaching of the Torah. The Messiah came to teach what HE meant from the beginning (TORAH). This is still alive today.

Now to show that the word Fulfill in that verse does mean to teach fully, bring full meaning to, or to magnify, here is a verse about something else, using the same word from the Greek word (plēroō).

Romans 15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have teach fulfilled (fully taught, brought full meaning to, or to magnified) the gospel of Christ.

If we are taught the word Fulfill in the Matthew verse above means COMPLETED then insert COMPLETED into this Romans verse where Paul says (fulfilled) below because that word in the original Greek writings was plēroō, the same word that appears in the Matthew verse above.

Romans 15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fulfilled (insert COMPLETED here ) the gospel of Christ. (this would mean he is done and no longer needed). Could you imagine if Paul quit preaching at that point and decided that his job was Completed?

[Jaime]

Isn't teaching to bring full meaning the same as "filling up the Law" that had effectively been emptied of its intended meaning by the Pharisees? The link you provided seems to agree with me in my opinion. Maybe I missed something.

Particularly this exerpt:

The last word is that verse is Fulfill (English) or in GREEK it was derived from (plēroō). Most believe that this means to "complete". This word means to teach fully, bring full meaning to, or to magnify. SO plug that in and try that verse again.

[Rella]

Isn't teaching to bring full meaning the same as "filling up the Law" that had effectively been emptied of its intended meaning by the Pharisees? The link you provided seems to agree with me in my opinion. Maybe I missed something.

Particularly this exerpt:

The last word is that verse is Fulfill (English) or in GREEK it was derived from (plēroō). Most believe that this means to "complete". This word means to teach fully, bring full meaning to, or to magnify. SO plug that in and try that verse again.

Yes, your are right...