"Church Fathers" Scriptural or Not

[Amo]

CHAP. XIII.—THE FUNERAL PILE IS ERECTED.

This, then, was carried into effect with greater speed than it was spoken, the multitudes immediately gathering together wood and fagots out of the shops and baths; the Jews especially, according to custom, eagerly assisting them in it. And when the funeral pile was ready, Polycarp, laying aside all his garments, and loosing his girdle, sought also to take off his sandals,—a thing he was not accustomed to do, inasmuch as every one of the faithful was always eager who should first touch his skin. For, on account of his holy life, he was, even before his martyrdom, adorned with every kind of good. Immediately then they surrounded him with those substances which had been prepared for the funeral pile. But when they were about also to fix him with nails, he said, "Leave me as I am; for He that giveth me strength to endure the fire, will also enable me; without your securing me by nails, to remain without moving in the pile."

Alexander Roberts, James Donaldson, and A. Cleveland Coxe, eds., "The Encyclical Epistle of the Church at Smyrna," in The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, vol. 1, The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company, 1885), 42.

Sounds like certain people were getting a little out of focus concerning their faith. Beginning to exalt certain individuals and their flesh apparently, above Him alone who can make anyone or thing holy.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
 
There is nothing in the flesh or of fallen humanity that is holy. Save the Holy Spirit of God which may dwell within by faith. Which Spirit cannot be imparted or attained by or through the flesh.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

[garee]

Sounds like certain people were getting a little out of focus concerning their faith. Beginning to exalt certain individuals and their flesh apparently, above Him alone who can make anyone or thing holy.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
 
There is nothing in the flesh or of fallen humanity that is holy. Save the Holy Spirit of God which may dwell within by faith. Which Spirit cannot be imparted or attained by or through the flesh.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

   

[Amo]

CHAP. XIV.—THE PRAYER OF POLYCARP.

They did not nail him then, but simply bound him. And he, placing his hands behind him, and being bound like a distinguished ram [taken] out of a great flock for sacrifice, and prepared to be an acceptable burnt-offering unto God, looked up to heaven, and said, "O Lord God Almighty, the Father of thy beloved and blessed Son Jesus Christ, by whom we have received the knowledge of Thee, the God of angels and powers, and of every creature, and of the whole race of the righteous who live before thee, I give Thee thanks that Thou hast counted me worthy of this day and this hour, that I should have a part in the number of Thy martyrs, in the cup of thy Christ, to the resurrection of eternal life, both of soul and body, through the incorruption [imparted] by the Holy Ghost. Among whom may I be accepted this day before Thee as a fat and acceptable sacrifice, according as Thou, the ever-truthful God, hast fore-ordained, hast revealed beforehand to me, and now hast fulfilled. Wherefore also I praise Thee for all things, I bless Thee, I glorify Thee, along with the everlasting and heavenly Jesus Christ, Thy beloved Son, with whom, to Thee, and the Holy Ghost, be glory both now and to all coming ages. Amen."

Alexander Roberts, James Donaldson, and A. Cleveland Coxe, eds., "The Encyclical Epistle of the Church at Smyrna," in The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, vol. 1, The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company, 1885), 42.

Uh Oh!

Heb 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament. 21 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: 24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. 25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. 26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; 27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. 28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

Heb 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: 23 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; 26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Heb 10:4  For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Only one man died the only sacrificial death which was, is, and only will be acceptable to God unto the salvation of humanity. Nor does God require sacrifices from the lost unto salvation as all the pagan gods did and do, but rather God Himself supplied His and our sacrifice unto salvation. The individual and spiritual sacrifice of the New Covenant era is described by Paul, and it distinctly not a literal one.

Rom 12:1  I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

It was the devil and his minions of the flesh, who martyred, and burned alive one who would not submit to them. God has called for no such thing, but rather the sacrifice of self by self, in willful submission to the Father through Christ Jesus the Son. Martyrs are witnesses to the steadfastness and surety of the promises of God. Certainly not any kind of acceptable sacrifice by the wicked unto God, or any kind of blasphemy intended by the martyred, as though they were in any way shape or form the one acceptable sacrifice for sin unto God. Nevertheless, only the Spirit of God can inspire and empower the believer unto authentic martyrdom. Making those responsible for persecuting God's very own, guilty of persecuting our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ again as well.

Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

[garee]

Uh Oh!

Heb 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament. 21 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: 24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. 25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. 26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; 27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. 28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

Heb 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: 23 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; 26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Heb 10:4  For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Only one man died the only sacrificial death which was, is, and only will be acceptable to God unto the salvation of humanity. Nor does God require sacrifices from the lost unto salvation as all the pagan gods did and do, but rather God Himself supplied His and our sacrifice unto salvation. The individual and spiritual sacrifice of the New Covenant era is described by Paul, and it distinctly not a literal one.

Rom 12:1  I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

It was the devil and his minions of the flesh, who martyred, and burned alive one who would not submit to them. God has called for no such thing, but rather the sacrifice of self by self, in willful submission to the Father through Christ Jesus the Son. Martyrs are witnesses to the steadfastness and surety of the promises of God. Certainly not any kind of acceptable sacrifice by the wicked unto God, or any kind of blasphemy intended by the martyred, as though they were in any way shape or form the one acceptable sacrifice for sin unto God. Nevertheless, only the Spirit of God can inspire and empower the believer unto authentic martyrdom. Making those responsible for persecuting God's very own, guilty of persecuting our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ again as well.

Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

[Amo]

CHAP. XV.—POLYCARP IS NOT INJURED BY THE FIRE.

When he had pronounced this amen, and so finished his prayer, those who were appointed for the purpose kindled the fire. And as the flame blazed forth in great fury, we, to whom it was given to witness it, beheld a great miracle, and have been preserved that we might report to others what then took place. For the fire, shaping itself into the form of an arch, like the sail of a ship when filled with the wind, encompassed as by a circle the body of the martyr. And he appeared within not like flesh which is burnt, but as bread that is baked, or as gold and silver glowing in a furnace. Moreover, we perceived such a sweet odour [coming from the pile], as if frankincense or some such precious spices had been smoking there.


CHAP. XVI.—POLYCARP IS PIERCED BY A DAGGER.

At length, when those wicked men perceived that his body could not be consumed by the fire, they commanded an executioner to go near and pierce him through with a dagger. And on his doing this, there came forth a dove, and a great quantity of blood, so that the fire was extinguished; and all the people wondered that there should be such a difference between the unbelievers and the elect, of whom this most admirable Polycarp was one, having in our own times been an apostolic and prophetic teacher, and bishop of the Catholic Church which is in Smyrna. For every word that went out of his mouth either has been or shall yet be accomplished.


Alexander Roberts, James Donaldson, and A. Cleveland Coxe, eds., "The Encyclical Epistle of the Church at Smyrna," in The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, vol. 1, The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company, 1885), 42.

A strange account indeed. In chapter 14 which we already discussed, Polycarp was compared to a sacrificial ram and burnt offering to God, which our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ was Himself, being the Lamb of God sacrificed from the foundation of the world. Which I thought improper, as it was and is.

Gen 22:11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. 12  And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me. 13  And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.

Rev 13:8  And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Now in chapter 15, he appears as a baked loaf of bread, or as glowing gold or silver. Not that I see any likeness between baked bread and glowing gold or silver, unless he looked like a glowing gold or silver baked loaf of bread. Very strange. On the other hand, our Lord and savior Jesus Christ was the bread of life. By His blood we are saved, not by putting out fires, but rather cleansing from sin. And to what purpose would God put out the fire, only to allow his servant o be stabbed to death? The Holy Spirit who is God, visibly descended upon our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in the form of a dove, what pray tell therefore does a dove leaving someone represent? At best their death I suppose, but according to this epistle itself Polycarp did not die but already being an angel as it were simply ascended up to heaven. Oh yes I almost forgot, every word that went out of Polycarps mouth either has been or shall yet be fulfilled. Kind of like, you know, God or our Lord Jesus Christ.

John 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. ................35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. ...................    48 I am that bread of life............................ 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world

1Co 1:29  That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30  But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31  That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

1Co 3:21  Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours; 22  Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours; 23  And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

A little to much praise for the saved sinner Polycarp in this epistle, and allusions to attributes of our Lord Himself concerning him, than I care for.

[Amo]

CHAP. XVII.—THE CHRISTIANS ARE REFUSED POLYCARP'S BODY.

But when the adversary of the race of the righteous, the envious, malicious, and wicked one, perceived the impressive nature of his martyrdom, and [considered] the blameless life he had led from the beginning, and how he was now crowned with the wreath of immortality, having beyond dispute received his reward, he did his utmost that not the least memorial of him should be taken away by us, although many desired to do this, and to become possessors of his holy flesh. For this end he suggested it to Nicetes, the father of Herod and brother of Alce, to go and entreat the governor not to give up his body to be buried, "lest," said he, "forsaking Him that was crucified, they begin to worship this one." This he said at the suggestion and urgent persuasion of the Jews, who also watched us, as we sought to take him out of the fire, being ignorant of this, that it is neither possible for us ever to forsake Christ, who suffered for the salvation of such as shall be saved throughout the whole world (the blameless one for sinners), nor to worship any other. For Him indeed, as being the Son of God, we adore; but the martyrs, as disciples and followers of the Lord, we worthily love on account of their extraordinary affection towards their own King and Master, of whom may we also be made companions and fellow-disciples!

Alexander Roberts, James Donaldson, and A. Cleveland Coxe, eds., "The Encyclical Epistle of the Church at Smyrna," in The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, vol. 1, The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company, 1885), 42–43.

More attributes of God and Christ alone being applied to Polycarp in the above inflated testimonies. Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is the only man after the fall, who has been blameless since the beginning. Nor do any of us sinners have holy flesh. Our Flesh being the old man which all of us must contend and do battle with. As the apostle Paul clearly taught in his testimonies, not to mention Paul's testimony as to when the saved will receive immortality as well, which the above inflated testimony also declares Polycarp had already received beyond ability to dispute. And what of Polycarp himself according to the above testimony, thinking himself to be so greatly admired, as to his body being worshipped in the place of Jesus by professed Christians after his death? If this testimony be true, which I begin to doubt the further along I read.

Rom 8:1  There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Gal 5:16  This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

1Co 15:50  Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

1Th 4:13  But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Jhn 5:26  For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

[Amo]

CHAP. XVIII.—THE BODY OF POLYCARP IS BURNED.

The centurion then, seeing the strife excited by the Jews, placed the body in the midst of the fire, and consumed it. Accordingly, we afterwards took up his bones, as being more precious than the most exquisite jewels, and more purified than gold, and deposited them in a fitting place, whither, being gathered together, as opportunity is allowed us, with joy and rejoicing, the Lord shall grant us to celebrate the anniversary of his martyrdom, both in memory of those who have already finished their course, and for the exercising and preparation of those yet to walk in their steps.

Alexander Roberts, James Donaldson, and A. Cleveland Coxe, eds., "The Encyclical Epistle of the Church at Smyrna," in The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, vol. 1, The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company, 1885), 43.

The beginning of saint and relic worship, which continues to this day. The exaltation of another sinner such as ourselves, above their fellow laborers and brethren, in eventual competition with and to Christ Jesus our Lord. Who alone is worthy of such praise and exaltation. By whom alone any authentically blessed and or unusually committed or righteous individual, attained such a status. Which in the future occupied to much time, ceremony, and practice also belonging to Christ our Lord alone.

Nobodies bones are more precious than exquisite jewels, or purified gold. They are and will return to dust. Always meant to be replaced with that which is more precious and purified than jewelry or gold, our new glorified, purified, and eternal characters and spiritual bodies. For there is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

[Amo]

CHAP. XIX.—PRAISE OF THE MARTYR POLYCARP.

This, then, is the account of the blessed Polycarp, who, being the twelfth that was martyred in Smyrna (reckoning those also of Philadelphia), yet occupies a place of his own in the memory of all men, insomuch that he is everywhere spoken of by the heathen themselves. He was not merely an illustrious teacher, but also a pre-eminent martyr, whose martyrdom all desire to imitate, as having been altogether consistent with the Gospel of Christ. For, having through patience overcome the unjust governor, and thus acquired the crown of immortality, he now, with the apostles and all the righteous [in heaven], rejoicingly glorifies God, even the Father, and blesses our Lord Jesus Christ, the Saviour of our souls, the Governor of our bodies, and the Shepherd of the Catholic Church throughout the world.9

Alexander Roberts, James Donaldson, and A. Cleveland Coxe, eds., "The Encyclical Epistle of the Church at Smyrna," in The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, vol. 1, The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company, 1885), 43.

2Ti 4:6  For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7  I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8  Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Paul expected to receive his crown of immortality at Christ's appearing, not at death. Was this Polycarp greater than the apostle Paul? Or perhaps those who have stated such regarding Polycarp consider that they know what really happens at death, better than Paul did.

Jhn 6:39  And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. ..............................
40  And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. ......................
44  No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. ......................
54  Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

According to holy scripture, the dead do not praise or glorify God.

Psa 30:1  A Psalm and Song at the dedication of the house of David. I will extol thee, O LORD; for thou hast lifted me up, and hast not made my foes to rejoice over me. 2  O LORD my God, I cried unto thee, and thou hast healed me. 3  O LORD, thou hast brought up my soul from the grave: thou hast kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit. 4  Sing unto the LORD, O ye saints of his, and give thanks at the remembrance of his holiness. 5  For his anger endureth but a moment; in his favour is life: weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning. 6  And in my prosperity I said, I shall never be moved. 7  LORD, by thy favour thou hast made my mountain to stand strong: thou didst hide thy face, and I was troubled. 8  I cried to thee, O LORD; and unto the LORD I made supplication. 9  What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit? Shall the dust praise thee? shall it declare thy truth? 10  Hear, O LORD, and have mercy upon me: LORD, be thou my helper. 11  Thou hast turned for me my mourning into dancing: thou hast put off my sackcloth, and girded me with gladness; 12  To the end that my glory may sing praise to thee, and not be silent. O LORD my God, I will give thanks unto thee for ever.

Psa 88:1  A Song or Psalm for the sons of Korah, to the chief Musician upon Mahalath Leannoth, Maschil of Heman the Ezrahite. O LORD God of my salvation, I have cried day and night before thee: 2  Let my prayer come before thee: incline thine ear unto my cry; 3  For my soul is full of troubles: and my life draweth nigh unto the grave. 4  I am counted with them that go down into the pit: I am as a man that hath no strength: 5  Free among the dead, like the slain that lie in the grave, whom thou rememberest no more: and they are cut off from thy hand. 6  Thou hast laid me in the lowest pit, in darkness, in the deeps. 7  Thy wrath lieth hard upon me, and thou hast afflicted me with all thy waves. Selah. 8  Thou hast put away mine acquaintance far from me; thou hast made me an abomination unto them: I am shut up, and I cannot come forth. 9  Mine eye mourneth by reason of affliction: LORD, I have called daily upon thee, I have stretched out my hands unto thee. 10  Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah. 11  Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction? 12  Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness? 13  But unto thee have I cried, O LORD; and in the morning shall my prayer prevent thee. 14  LORD, why castest thou off my soul? why hidest thou thy face from me? 15  I am afflicted and ready to die from my youth up: while I suffer thy terrors I am distracted. 16  Thy fierce wrath goeth over me; thy terrors have cut me off. 17  They came round about me daily like water; they compassed me about together. 18  Lover and friend hast thou put far from me, and mine acquaintance into darkness.

Psa 115:1  Not unto us, O LORD, not unto us, but unto thy name give glory, for thy mercy, and for thy truth's sake. 2  Wherefore should the heathen say, Where is now their God? 3  But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased. 4  Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands. 5  They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not: 6  They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not: 7  They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat. 8  They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them. 9  O Israel, trust thou in the LORD: he is their help and their shield. 10  O house of Aaron, trust in the LORD: he is their help and their shield. 11  Ye that fear the LORD, trust in the LORD: he is their help and their shield. 12  The LORD hath been mindful of us: he will bless us; he will bless the house of Israel; he will bless the house of Aaron. 13  He will bless them that fear the LORD, both small and great. 14  The LORD shall increase you more and more, you and your children. 15  Ye are blessed of the LORD which made heaven and earth. 16  The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD'S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men. 17  The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence. 18  But we will bless the LORD from this time forth and for evermore. Praise the LORD.

Ecc 9:5  For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6  Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. 7  Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works. 8  Let thy garments be always white; and let thy head lack no ointment. 9  Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labour which thou takest under the sun. 10  Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

[garee]

Hi I would offer. Martyrizing is a false doctrine that Roman Catholic with Greek Orthodox  use to build there own sect for venerating the dead (patron saints)

What I call a abomination of desolation attributing the work of our unseen Holy Father over to dying mankind and oral traditons. called Apostolic Fathers.  showing hatred of our Holy Father.

Christ as anti christ another teaching authority other than sola scriptura 

Simply deceitfully a lying sign (martyrizing ) that unbelievers wonder and marvel after just as if Christ was brining new prophecy

Completely  destroy the intended meaning of two words martyrs (simple witness) and apostle sent one-- deliver boy- UPS-- FED X

Clearly the first apostle Abel the second born sent with the gospel martyred His witness still cries out  The church began in Genesis not Mathew 

The Original Meaning of "Martyr" The Greek word μάρτυς (martyrs) literally means "witness." Nothing more and nothing less.

The law of interpretation protecting the one "author" and "finisher""the one who gives his understanding --- do not add new meaning to one word. . Itcan change all the loving commandments.  Found in Deuteronomy 4:2 another at the end(Rev22) do not add or subtract.

Two working to protect the integrity of Christ the invisible author. The just and justifier our Holy father Christ

A martyr is anyone who testifies to the truth of God's Word, often at the cost of their life, but the emphasis is on faithful witness, not the act of dying itself.----all die in the end In Sola Scriptural John the Baptist, Stephen, and the apostles were martyrs because they witnessed God's truth, even unto death. Institutional confusion---- Catholic oral tradition emphasizes suffering or death as a kind of works-righteousness making dying mankind venerable, praise worthy of prayer . .

This can falsely lead to a mindset where the act of dying for faith becomes a venerable merit, rather than faithfulness of Christ being the witness---  yoked with Christ .True Christian witness is faithful living-- testifying to sola scriptura God's Word not achieving reward through martyrdom. In that way "let the dead bury the dead "  

All Believers Are "Martyrs" in the true biblical sense. Every believer who testifies to God's living word--- whether through preaching , obedience, or enduring persecution, is a witness.(martyr ) Death may or may not occur, but the key is faithful testimony. Christ in us In that sense, all believers are martyrs, because every life lived in obedience is a testimony to God.

The unseen witness Christ must be mixed with that which the seen the temporal historical dying .  No unseen gospel version was given to the father of lies .Not subject to the gospel . .His vision the tip of his lying nose.. what the eyes see  no hidden manna-- daily bread no understanding of the parables

[Amo]

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.


Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

There is no eternal life for us, without our death.

Jhn 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. 25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

[Amo]

CHAP. XXI.—THE DATE OF THE MARTYRDOM.
Now, the blessed Polycarp suffered martyrdom on the second day of the month Xanthicus just begun, the seventh day before the Kalends of May, on the great Sabbath, at the eighth hour. He was taken by Herod, Philip the Trallian being high priest, Statius Quadratus being proconsul, but Jesus Christ being King for ever, to whom be glory, honour, majesty, and an everlasting throne, from generation to generation. Amen.

Alexander Roberts, James Donaldson, and A. Cleveland Coxe, eds., "The Encyclical Epistle of the Church at Smyrna," in The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, vol. 1, The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company, 1885), 43.

Finally, regarding the epistle under examination, it refers to the great Sabbath while of course not addressing the Sabbath or not issue. The subject being that of the martyrdom of Polycarp. Nevertheless, it is interesting that Christians who many claim no longer observed the seventh day Sabbath or other claimed Jewish "ceremonial" practices by this time, would still refer to the day Polycarp was martyred upon with the Jewish reference to the Great Sabbath.

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

[Amo]

THE EPISTLE OF IGNATIUS TO THE EPHESIANS

LONGER VERSION

CHAP. I.—PRAISE OF THE EPHESIANS.

I HAVE become acquainted with your greatly-desired name in God, which ye have acquired by the habit of righteousness, according to the faith and love in Christ Jesus our Saviour. Being the followers of the love of God towards man, and stirring up yourselves by the blood of Christ, you have perfectly accomplished the work which was beseeming to you. For, on hearing that I came bound from Syria for the sake of Christ, our common hope, trusting through your prayers to be permitted to fight with beasts at Rome, that so by martyrdom I may indeed become the disciple of Him "who gave Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God," [ye hastened to see me]. I have therefore received your whole multitude in the name of God, through Onesimus, a man of inexpressible love, and who is your bishop, whom I pray you by Jesus Christ to love, and that you would all seek to be like him. Blessed be God, who has granted unto you, who are yourselves so excellent, to obtain such an excellent bishop.

Ignatius of Antioch, "The Epistle of Ignatius to the Ephesians," in The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, ed. Alexander Roberts, James Donaldson, and A. Cleveland Coxe, vol. 1, The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company, 1885), 50.

Interesting. I may be wrong, but I don't remember any of the apostles praying for martyrdom, in order to become a disciple of our Lord Jesus Christ. As though He required that His followers seek to be literally martyred by their enemies in faith. Even our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ prayed that He might be delivered from the cup of His humiliation and death by crucifixion.

Mat 26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour? 41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. 42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done. 43 And he came and found them asleep again: for their eyes were heavy. 44 And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words.

The New Covenant sacrifice of the sinner is a spiritual one. Which is even more necessary than a literal one at the hands of God's enemies in martyrdom. Without the spiritual sacrifice first, a literal one would be meaningless and accomplish nothing. This is aside from the fact that one who has already spiritually sacrificed their lives unto God in Christ Jesus our Lord, would and will of course be ready for martyrdom if or when God allowed for the same unto the glory and honor of His name. Nevertheless, it is not required for salvation or to be a disciple of Christ in scripture. Nor would I think it should be something one should pray would happen to them. Perhaps though, that we might be ready and able if such were according to God's will and for the glory and honor of His name.

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, hat ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

[DaveW]

I have little use for the ECFs.  It is clear from their writings that they got some stuff right and a lot of stuff very wrong. 

There is a school of thought that Clement of Alexandria was the author of the book of Hebrews.  I suppose it is possible.   But I lean more toward Barnabas or Apollos. 

[garee]

I have little use for the ECFs.  It is clear from their writings that they got some stuff right and a lot of stuff very wrong. 

There is a school of thought that Clement of Alexandria was the author of the book of Hebrews.  I suppose it is possible.   But I lean more toward Barnabas or Apollos. 

EFC false dichotomy

Earthly dying fathers are used in scripture in two very different ways. Satan would collapse them into one category because he has no spiritual understanding subject to the written gospel.

One kind of father protects all things written in the law and prophets — holding to the authority of the written testimony. Those are servants pointing beyond themselves toward Christ the unseen Holy Father.

The other kind builds outward through oral traditions of dying mankind, seeking after signs, wonders, apparitions, and religious authority as though Christ were still adding new prophecy.

To those trusting in counterfeit authority and lying signs, scripture says God sends strong delusion.

Acts 24 becomes a good example of the two kinds of fathers struggling against one another. One side accused the gospel itself of being heresy and attempted to replace the written witness with inherited traditions and accusations.

I would rather follow those truly sent by God — the apostles carrying the infallible gospel message — not later systems of earthly religious authority claiming inspired status beside scripture.

Even the term "early church fathers" can become misleading if it subtly shifts attention away from the first and highest Father: our invisible Abba Holy Father.

Scripture warns repeatedly not to elevate dying earthly mankind into spiritual fatherhood as though they were the source of divine authority.

There are always two voices:
the written word of God,
or the traditions proceeding from the mouth of men.

Jeremiah 44 reveals the pattern clearly. The people preferred the traditions of their fathers and the worship of the "queen of heaven" because they believed those practices brought earthly prosperity and visible comfort.

Jeremiah spoke in the name of the Lord, yet they answered:

"As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, we will not hearken unto thee."

That same conflict remains today. One voice calls men back to the written testimony and Christ alone. The other continually builds systems of visible religious comfort around traditions inherited from earthly fathers.

[Amo]

CHAP. II.—CONGRATULATIONS AND ENTREATIES.

As to our fellow-servant Burrhus, your deacon in regard to God and blessed in all things, I pray that he may continue blameless for the honour of the Church, and of your most blessed bishop. Crocus also, worthy both of God and you, whom we have received as the manifestation of your love to us, hath in all things refreshed7 me, and "hath not been ashamed of my chain," as the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ will also refresh9 him; together with Onesimus, and Burrhus, and Euplus, and Fronto, by means of whom I have, as to love, beheld all of you. May I always have joy of you, if indeed I be worthy of it. It is therefore befitting that you should in every way glorify Jesus Christ, who hath glorified you, that by a unanimous obedience "ye may be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment, and may all speak the same thing concerning the same thing," and that, being subject to the bishop and the presbytery, ye may in all respects be sanctified.

Ignatius of Antioch, "The Epistle of Ignatius to the Ephesians," in The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, ed. Alexander Roberts, James Donaldson, and A. Cleveland Coxe, vol. 1, The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company, 1885), 50.

Do the scriptures really teach us to be unanimously obedient to the bishop and presbytery? To all say the same thing, concerning the same thing? As though what, Bishops have all knowledge and alone express the teachings and will of God by way of proper witnessing? So that we should imitate and subject ourselves to their examples and manner of teaching in the place of who, Jesus Christ?

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. 3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. 4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: 5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. 6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; 7 Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching; 8 Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy,[\u] with cheerfulness.

Mat 20:25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. 26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; 27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: 28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Mat 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. 4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. 5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, 6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, 7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi. 8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. 9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. 10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. 11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

Our Lord and the Apostle Paul did not point to Bishops or a presbytery or clergy to whom a supposed laity were to be subordinated. To the contrary, they warned against those who desired after and sought such titles or exalted positions. Nor were those of the church with varying gifts instructed to seek out the approval of other mere men to learn what to say or how to present the truths of the gospel. To the contrary, they were pointed to the study of the scriptures themsleves for knowledge of such, and the power of the Holy Spirit of God unto the recollection of truth and power of presentation unto conversions. It was only in the apostasy that the Christian religion became Imperially mandated, and a laity was subjected to a clergy that were supported and backed up by Imperial command. Though some such as Ignatius planted the seeds for such illicit authority and exaltation of one man over another within professed Christianity. Once the church and the empire were united, then such illicit union brought about the enforcement these sentiments previously sought out only by way of persuasion by such as Ignatius. Bringing persecution upon those who would not conform to such wishes by mere men, with no scriptural command concerning such.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

Nevertheless -

2Ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

The knowledge of truth was to be obtained by careful and prayerful study of the holy scriptures. Not the boasted positions of mere men who sought and seek to lord themselves over us. As to the type and power of the presentation of scriptural truths -

Jhn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. 25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. 27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. 28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. 29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.


Mrk 13:9  But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them. 10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations. 11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

Luk 12:11 And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say: 12 For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.

Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. 8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

[Amo]

CHAP. III.—EXHORTATIONS TO UNITY.

I do not issue orders to you, as if I were some great person. For though I am bound for His name, I am not yet perfect in Jesus Christ. For now I begin to be a disciple, and I speak to you as my fellow-servants. For it was needful for me to have been admonished by you in faith, exhortation, patience, and long-suffering. But inasmuch as love suffers me not to be silent in regard to you, I have therefore taken upon me first to exhort you that ye would run together in accordance with the will of God. For even Jesus Christ does all things according to the will of the Father, as He Himself declares in a certain place, "I do always those things that please Him." Wherefore it behoves us also to live according to the will of God in Christ, and to imitate Him as Paul did. For, says he, "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ."

Ignatius of Antioch, "The Epistle of Ignatius to the Ephesians," in The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, ed. Alexander Roberts, James Donaldson, and A. Cleveland Coxe, vol. 1, The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company, 1885), 50.

Here Ignatius hits the mark concerning proper submission to elected church leaders. They are to be followed only in that they exemplify the life or teachings of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. The word, life, and teachings of Christ are what the world will be judged by. Not the authority of the many differing opinions or teachings of men with titles in various churches or denominations, who teach many an extra biblical doctrine or practice, or blatantly contradict holy scripture and the teachings of our Lord. There is no sin in disobeying any bishop or otherwise, who practices or preaches such. Whether a state or empire backs such teachings up by law or not. We will each be judged by the words and teachings of Jesus Christ, not such as these.

Jhn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. 30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Jhn 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Jhn 8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: 55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

[Amo]

CHAP. IV.—THE SAME CONTINUED.

Wherefore it is fitting that ye also should run together in accordance with the will of the bishop who by God's appointment rules over you. Which thing ye indeed of yourselves do, being instructed by the Spirit. For your justly-renowned presbytery, being worthy of God, is fitted as exactly to the bishop as the strings are to the harp. Thus, being joined together in concord and harmonious love, of which Jesus Christ is the Captain and Guardian, do ye, man by man, become but one choir; so that, agreeing together in concord, and obtaining a perfect unity with God, ye may indeed be one in harmonious feeling with God the Father, and His beloved Son Jesus Christ our Lord. For, says He, "Grant unto them, Holy Father, that as I and Thou are one, they also may be one in us." It is therefore profitable that you, being joined together with God in an unblameable unity, should be the followers of the example of Christ, of whom also ye are members.

Ignatius of Antioch, "The Epistle of Ignatius to the Ephesians," in The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, ed. Alexander Roberts, James Donaldson, and A. Cleveland Coxe, vol. 1, The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company, 1885), 51.

Mrk 10:42 But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them. 43 But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister: 44 And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all. 45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

As always, Ignatius advice to submit to the will of the bishop is only if said bishop remains within the boundaries of the teachings of our Lord and holy scripture. Bishops are to be as ministers of God, they are not to lord themselves over or exercise authority upon the body of Christ, as the Gentiles do over their subordinates. This is why the Church of Christ must remain separate from the state or empire. As soon as civil authorities enforce the dogmas of a church, the leaders of the church become just like the Gentiles and are therefore apostate. Especially if they agree and support this unholy union. How could it be any other way, when our Lord and the Apostle Paul have warned us that false leaders would arise from within the church, who would seek such authority for themselves?

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. 29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

It is incumbent therefore, upon all to examine and compare the teachings and lives of those who have been given and or claim authority within the church, with the teachings of holy scripture for authenticity. For what excuse will the deceived who had the word of God before them, and made no use of it unto knowledge, justification, and sanctification, have before God on that great day?

Act 17:10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

Choose that which is more noble, and search the scriptures to see if the things you have been taught are truly so. What, do your professed leaders have authority above that of the Apostle Paul? If it was right to check what Paul preached concerning the truth, then it is certainly right and noble to check what your church leaders preach, teach, or exemplify, for conformity to the teachings of holy scripture. Especially since we have been warned of wolves seeking lordship over the Lord's flock. Make use of that which has been given to you by God, for this very purpose.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

[Amo]

CHAP. V.—THE PRAISE OF UNITY.

For if I, in this brief space of time, have enjoyed such fellowship with your bishop—I mean not of a mere human, but of a spiritual nature—how much more do I reckon you happy, who so depend on him as the Church does on the Lord Jesus,]/u] and the Lord does on God and His Father, that so all things may agree in unity! Let no man deceive himself: if any one be not within the altar, he is deprived of the bread of God. For if the prayer of one or two possesses such power that Christ stands in the midst of them, how much more will the prayer of the bishop and of the whole Church, ascending up in harmony to God, prevail for the granting of all their petitions in Christ! He, therefore, that separates himself from such, and does not meet in the society where sacrifices are offered, and with "the Church of the first-born whose names are written in heaven," is a wolf in sheep's clothing, while he presents a mild outward appearance. Do ye, beloved, be careful to be subject to the bishop, and the presbyters and the deacons. For he that is subject to these is obedient to Christ, who has appointed them; but he that is disobedient to these is disobedient to Christ Jesus. And "he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him." For he that yields not obedience to his superiors is self-confident, quarrelsome, and proud. But "God," says [the Scripture] "resisteth the proud, but giveth grace to the humble;" and, "The proud have greatly transgressed." The Lord also says to the priests, "He that heareth you, heareth Me; and he that heareth Me, heareth the Father that sent Me. He that despiseth you, despiseth Me; and he that despiseth Me, despiseth Him that sent Me."

Ignatius of Antioch, "The Epistle of Ignatius to the Ephesians," in The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, ed. Alexander Roberts, James Donaldson, and A. Cleveland Coxe, vol. 1, The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company, 1885), 51.

Wow, Ignatius is really heading off course with the above almost blasphemous and or twisted statements. The Lord Jesus Christ is God, the self existing one, one with the Father, the Alpha and the Omega. To suggest that anyone should depend upon their bishop as they do their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is borderline, if not straight forward blasphemy. I'm not going there.

We have the following testimony of Holy Scripture in relation to wolves.

Mat 7:15  Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30  Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

[garee]

One thing to remember is that Scripture presents two kinds of fathers.

There is the father of lies, who has no understanding of the gospel hidden in parables and judges according to the lust of the eyes.

Then there is the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who gives understanding by His Spirit through the written Word.

Saul of Tarsus was once a "father" according to the traditions of his day. In his zeal, he persecuted the born-again believers.

"I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women..." (Acts 22:4, KJV)

But after Christ opened his eyes, Saul became Paul. Before his accusers, he did not appeal to the traditions of men. Instead, he confessed:

"Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me... so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets." (Acts 24:13–14, KJV)

Paul's authority was no longer the traditions of men, but the written Scriptures. The gospel reveals the unseen things of Christ, our hope of glory, to those who hear God's Word.


"Taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers..." (Acts 22:3, KJV)

Filled with zeal, he persecuted those who followed Christ.

But after the Lord opened his eyes, Paul's authority changed. He no longer rested in the traditions of the fathers, but in the testimony of the one heavenly Father revealed in the written Scriptures.

His confession became:

"So worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets." (Acts 24:14, KJV)

The contrast is between the traditions of earthly fathers and the written testimony given by our one heavenly Father.

"For one is your Father, which is in heaven." (Matthew 23:9, KJV)

The law of the fathers gave way to the law of faith revealed by the one Father through His Son.the dynamic duo

[Amo]

CHAP. VI.— HAVE RESPECT TO THE BISHOP AS TO CHRIST HIMSELF.

The more, therefore, you see the bishop silent, the more do you reverence him. For we ought to receive every one whom the Master of the house sends to be over His household, as we would do Him that sent him. It is manifest, therefore, that we should look upon the bishop even as we would look upon the Lord Himself, standing, as he does, before the Lord. For "it behoves the man who looks carefully about him, and is active in his business, to stand before kings, and not to stand before slothful men."3 And indeed Onesimus himself greatly commends your good order in God, that ye all live according to the truth, and that no sect has any dwelling-place among you. Nor indeed do ye hearken to any one rather than to Jesus Christ, the true Shepherd and Teacher. And ye are, as Paul wrote to you, "one body and one spirit, because ye have also been called in one hope of the faith.5 Since also "there is one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in all." Such, then, are ye, having been taught by such instructors, Paul the Christ-bearer, and Timothy the most faithful.

Ignatius of Antioch, "The Epistle of Ignatius to the Ephesians," in The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, ed. Alexander Roberts, James Donaldson, and A. Cleveland Coxe, vol. 1, The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company, 1885), 52.

Hmmm? First he tells them to look upon the bishop, a sinner such as ourselves, as though they were looking upon the Lord Himself. Seemingly border line blasphemy once again. Then he states that they do not hearken to any other than Jesus Christ, the true shepherd. Two seemingly contradictory statements. The main ingredient which Ignatius seems to leave out of the picture, which might remedy the problems I see with his continued exaltation of the Bishops, is the admonition to judge all Bishops and otherwise in accordance with the testimonies of Holy Scripture. Without this main ingredient, you simply have the exaltation of Bishops who are sinners such as ourselves, as unto God. If this very thing was not exactly what happened over time, one might be inclined to attribute this lack as a simple presumption on Ignatius' part, that all professed Christians were already doing so of their own accord.

Nevethrless and to the contrary, history records the establishment of one supreme Bishop over all others. Whose subservient Bishops were and are over all the priests of a supposed New Covenant priesthood as well, to replace the Old Covenant priesthood of sinful intermediaries upon whom the laity are dependent for intercession and salvation. An entire and enormous Old Covenant type system put in place during our New Covenant, in direct violation of the teachings and purpose of our Lord Jesus Christ and His authentic church. The latter consisting of those who truly do look to the Lord Jesus Christ alone for salvation by Him alone, and His intercession alone for the forgiveness of their sins, by faith in His once and for all time sacrifice for our sins. Whom seek to no longer crucify their Lord afresh by stubborn disobedience and or some extra biblical un-bloody sacrifice of our Lord once again, and again, and again. But rather by the obedience of faith, in the willful crucifixion of their own sinful selves at the foot of the cross. That the Spirit of God might dwell within them unto the establishment of Christ's righteousness within, and not their own. All of this and more also, according to the exemplary life and teachings of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and His apostles and prophets. Whose written testimonies are here for us to live by in the Holy Scriptures, the last and final word concerning all doctrine.

2Ti 3:10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, 11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. 12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, 16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

[Amo]

One thing to remember is that Scripture presents two kinds of fathers.

There is the father of lies, who has no understanding of the gospel hidden in parables and judges according to the lust of the eyes.

Then there is the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who gives understanding by His Spirit through the written Word.

Saul of Tarsus was once a "father" according to the traditions of his day. In his zeal, he persecuted the born-again believers.

"I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women..." (Acts 22:4, KJV)

But after Christ opened his eyes, Saul became Paul. Before his accusers, he did not appeal to the traditions of men. Instead, he confessed:

"Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me... so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets." (Acts 24:13–14, KJV)

Paul's authority was no longer the traditions of men, but the written Scriptures. The gospel reveals the unseen things of Christ, our hope of glory, to those who hear God's Word.


"Taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers..." (Acts 22:3, KJV)

Filled with zeal, he persecuted those who followed Christ.

But after the Lord opened his eyes, Paul's authority changed. He no longer rested in the traditions of the fathers, but in the testimony of the one heavenly Father revealed in the written Scriptures.

His confession became:

"So worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets." (Acts 24:14, KJV)

The contrast is between the traditions of earthly fathers and the written testimony given by our one heavenly Father.

"For one is your Father, which is in heaven." (Matthew 23:9, KJV)

The law of the fathers gave way to the law of faith revealed by the one Father through His Son.the dynamic duo

Agreed. Nevertheless -

Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

[garee]

Agreed. Nevertheless -

Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

I agree. Hebrews 4:2 says the gospel was preached to them just as it is to us, yet many never profited because they did not mix what they heard with faith.

That's why Christ taught in parables. The historical events were real, but they were also God's way of revealing the unseen gospel. When we rightly divide the Scriptures, comparing the temporal things we can see with the eternal things we cannot see (2 Corinthians 4:18), the history isn't changed—it becomes richer because we see what it was always pointing to.

The history remains true, but faith allows us to see the eternal message hidden within it.

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

"Church Fathers" Scriptural or Not

I don't think you can lump them all together for evaluation.  The quality of the works there varies drastically. 

It's necessary to consider them each separately.  In my opinion:

Should be canon:
Epistle of Barnabas

Reliable, not Scripture
The Didache
Fragments of Papias

Useful Historical Context
Irenaeus
Justin Martyr

Too Political for my Liking
Clement
Polycarp

Don't Remember Them Well Enough to Say
Ignatius
Mathetes

[Amo]

I don't think you can lump them all together for evaluation.  The quality of the works there varies drastically. 

It's necessary to consider them each separately.  In my opinion:

Should be canon:
Epistle of Barnabas

Reliable, not Scripture
The Didache
Fragments of Papias

Useful Historical Context
Irenaeus
Justin Martyr

Too Political for my Liking
Clement
Polycarp

Don't Remember Them Well Enough to Say
Ignatius
Mathetes

Agreed. That is why I am going through them one at a time, regarding their fidelity to Holy Scripture or not. At the very least, they should reveal historical fidelity to the teachings of the Holy Scriptures, or historical departure and or apostasy from the same.

[Amo]

CHAP. VII.—BEWARE OF FALSE TEACHERS.

But some most worthless persons are in the habit of carrying about the name [of Jesus Christ] in wicked guile, while yet they practise things unworthy of God, and hold opinions contrary to the doctrine of Christ, to their own destruction, and that of those who give credit to them, whom you must avoid as ye would wild beasts. For "the righteous man who avoids them is saved for ever; but the destruction of the ungodly is sudden, and a subject of rejoicing." For "they are dumb dogs, that cannot bark,"9 raving mad, and biting secretly, against whom ye must be on your guard, since they labour under an incurable disease. But our Physician is the only true God, the unbegotten and unapproachable, the Lord of all, the Father and Begetter of the only-begotten Son. We have also as a Physician the Lord our God, Jesus the Christ, the only-begotten Son and Word, before time began, but who afterwards became also man, of Mary the virgin. For "the Word was made flesh."11 Being incorporeal, He was in the body; being impassible, He was in a passible body; being immortal, He was in a mortal body; being life, He became subject to corruption, that He might free our souls from death and corruption, and heal them, and might restore them to health, when they were diseased with ungodliness and wicked lusts.

Ignatius of Antioch, "The Epistle of Ignatius to the Ephesians," in The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, ed. Alexander Roberts, James Donaldson, and A. Cleveland Coxe, vol. 1, The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company, 1885), 52.

It doesn't seem proper, that one who follows our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, should be referring to anyone as worthless. Our Lord died for everyone, making it impossible for any to be worthless. Nor does it seem proper to rejoice over the destruction of the ungodly.

Ezk 18:31  Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

Ezk 33:10  Therefore, O thou son of man, speak unto the house of Israel; Thus ye speak, saying, If our transgressions and our sins be upon us, and we pine away in them, how should we then live? 11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Our Lord has appeared, and been seen in vision, in bodily form. Surely He is not restricted in any sense as such, nevertheless He has manifested Himself in such form to us several times.

Gen 3:8  And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

Gen 18:1  And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; 2  And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, 3  And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant: 4  Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree: 5  And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said. 6  And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth. 7  And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetcht a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it. 8  And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat. 9  And they said unto him, Where is Sarah thy wife? And he said, Behold, in the tent. 10  And he said, I will certainly return unto thee according to the time of life; and, lo, Sarah thy wife shall have a son. And Sarah heard it in the tent door, which was behind him. 11  Now Abraham and Sarah were old and well stricken in age; and it ceased to be with Sarah after the manner of women. 12  Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also? 13  And the LORD said unto Abraham, Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying, Shall I of a surety bear a child, which am old? 14  Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son. 15  Then Sarah denied, saying, I laughed not; for she was afraid. And he said, Nay; but thou didst laugh. 16  And the men rose up from thence, and looked toward Sodom: and Abraham went with them to bring them on the way. 17  And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do; 18  Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him? 19  For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him. 20  [v]And the LORD said[/b], Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; 21  I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

Gen 32:24  And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. 25  And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him. 26  And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me. 27  And 28  And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. 29  And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there. 30  And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Jos 5:13  And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries? 14  And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant? 15  And the captain of the LORD'S host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.

Ezk 1:4  And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire. 5  Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man. 6  And every one had four faces, and every one had four wings. 7  And their feet were straight feet; and the sole of their feet was like the sole of a calf's foot: and they sparkled like the colour of burnished brass. 8  And they had the hands of a man under their wings on their four sides; and they four had their faces and their wings. 9 Their wings were joined one to another; they turned not when they went; they went every one straight forward. 10 As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle. 11 Thus were their faces: and their wings were stretched upward; two wings of every one were joined one to another, and two covered their bodies. 12 And they went every one straight forward: whither the spirit was to go, they went; and they turned not when they went. 13 As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, and like the appearance of lamps: it went up and down among the living creatures; and the fire was bright, and out of the fire went forth lightning. 14 And the living creatures ran and returned as the appearance of a flash of lightning. 15 Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with his four faces. 16 The appearance of the wheels and their work was like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel. 17 When they went, they went upon their four sides: and they turned not when they went. 18 As for their rings, they were so high that they were dreadful; and their rings were full of eyes round about them four. 19 And when the living creatures went, the wheels went by them: and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up. 20 Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels. 21 When those went, these went; and when those stood, these stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels. 22 And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above. 23 And under the firmament were their wings straight, the one toward the other: every one had two, which covered on this side, and every one had two, which covered on that side, their bodies. 24 And when they went, I heard the noise of their wings, like the noise of great waters, as the voice of the Almighty, the voice of speech, as the noise of an host: when they stood, they let down their wings. 25 And there was a voice from the firmament that was over their heads, when they stood, and had let down their wings. 26 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it. 27 And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about. 28  As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake.

[garee]

Interesting comment concerning those martyred becoming angels. Probably just a figure of speech, as I am not aware of such teaching from scripture or otherwise in the early church.

martyrdoms false prophecy oral tradtion s dying mankind


The Original Meaning of "Martyr" The Greek  word μάρτυς (martys) literally means "witness." Nothing more and nothing less.

The law of interpretation protects the one "author" and "finisher ""the one who gives his understanding --- do not add new meaning to one word. . It can change all the loving commandments.  Found in Deuteronomy 4:2 another at the end(Rev22) do not add or subtract. 

Two witnesses  working to protect the integrity of Christ the invisible author. The just and justifier our Holy father Christ

A martyr is anyone who testifies to the truth of God's Word, often at the cost of their life, but the emphasis is on faithful witness, not the act of dying itself.----all die in the end

In Sola Scriptural John the Baptist, Stephen, and the apostles were martyrs because they witnessed God's truth, even unto death. 

Institutional confusion---- Catholic oral tradition emphasizes suffering or death as a kind of works-righteousness making dying mankind venerable, praise worthy of prayer . .

This can falsely lead to a mindset where the act of dying for faith becomes a venerable merit, rather than faithfulness of Christ being the witness---  yoked with Christ .

True Christian witness is faithful living-- testifying to sola scriptura God's Word not achieving reward through martyrdom. In that way "let the dead bury the dead

"All Believers Are "Martyrs" in the true biblical sense. Every believer who testifies to God's living word--- whether through preaching , obedience, or enduring persecution, is a witness.(martyr )

Death may or may not occur, but the  key is faithful testimony. Christ in us In that sense, all believers are martyrs, because every life lived in obedience is a testimony to God.

The unseen witness of Christ must be mixed with that which is seen the temporal historical dying .  No unseen gospel version as a parable is given to the father of lies .Not subject to the gospel . .His vision the tip of his lying nose what the eyes see  no hidden manna-- daily bread no understanding of the parables 

[Amo]

We will now move on to the  -

THE EPISTLE OF IGNATIUS TO THE MAGNESIANS

CHAP. II.—I REJOICE IN YOUR MESSENGERS.

Since, then, I have had the privilege of seeing you, through Damas your most worthy bishop, and through your worthy presbyters Bassus and Apollonius, and through my fellow-servant the deacon Sotio, whose friendship may I ever enjoy, inasmuch as he, by the grace of God, is subject to the bishop and presbytery, in the law of Jesus Christ, [I now write to you].

Ignatius of Antioch, "The Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians," in The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, ed. Alexander Roberts, James Donaldson, and A. Cleveland Coxe, vol. 1, The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company, 1885), 59.

Interesting, as there actually is no law of Jesus Christ pertaining to bishops or a presbytery. As there were no bishops or that referred to as a presbytery during His days among us. Rather the Old Covenant system of leadership and organization. With which He was continually in conflict, as they had wandered far from proper biblical leadership, as our Lord and His apostles predicted a great deal of New Covenant leadership would as well. Therefore they also firmly established the word of God through our Lord, His prophets, and apostles, as the final word and standard regarding all issues or questions of authority. Not mere men in supposedly high positions above all others, who are themsleves sinners and therefore susceptible to corruption just like the rest of us. As the many examples in Holy Scripture of such, not to mention history, have clearly demonstrated.

[Amo]

CHAP. III.—HONOUR YOUR YOUTHFUL BISHOP.

Now it becomes you also not to despise the age of your bishop, but to yield him all reverence, according to the will of God the Father, as I have known even holy presbyters do, not having regard to the manifest youth [of their bishop], but to his knowledge in God; inasmuch as "not the ancient are [necessarily] wise, nor do the aged understand prudence; but there is a spirit in men." For Daniel the wise, at twelve years of age, became possessed of the divine Spirit, and convicted the elders, who in vain carried their grey hairs, of being false accusers, and of lusting after the beauty of another man's wife. Samuel also, when he was but a little child, reproved Eli, who was ninety years old, for giving honour to his sons rather than to God. In like manner, Jeremiah also received this message from God, "Say not, I am a child." Solomon too, and Josiah, [exemplified the same thing.] The former, being made king at twelve years of age, gave that terrible and difficult judgment in the case of the two women concerning their children. The latter, coming to the throne when eight years old, cast down the altars and temples [of the idols], and burned down the groves, for they were dedicated to demons, and not to God. And he slew the false priests, as the corrupters and deceivers of men, and not the worshippers of the Deity. Wherefore youth is not to be despised when it is devoted to God. But he is to be despised who is of a wicked mind, although he be old, and full of wicked days. Timothy the Christ-bearer was young, but hear what his teacher writes to him: "Let no man despise thy youth, but be thou an example of the believers in word and in conduct." It is becoming, therefore, that ye also should be obedient to your bishop, and contradict him in nothing; for it is a fearful thing to contradict any such person. For no one does [by such conduct] deceive him that is visible, but does [in reality] seek to mock Him that is invisible, who, however, cannot be mocked by any one. And every such act has respect not to man, but to God. For God says to Samuel, "They have not mocked thee, but Me." And Moses declares, "For their murmuring is not against us, but against the Lord God." No one of those has, [in fact,] remained unpunished, who rose up against their superiors. For Dathan and Abiram did not speak against the law, but against Moses, and were cast down alive into Hades. Korah also, and the two hundred and fifty who conspired with him against Aaron, were destroyed by fire. Absalom, again, who had slain his brother, became suspended on a tree, and had his evil-designing heart thrust through with darts. In like manner was Abeddadan beheaded for the same reason. Uzziah, when he presumed to oppose the priests and the priesthood, was smitten with leprosy. Saul also was dishonoured, because he did not wait for Samuel the high priest. It behoves you, therefore, also to reverence your superiors.

Ignatius of Antioch, "The Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians," in The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, ed. Alexander Roberts, James Donaldson, and A. Cleveland Coxe, vol. 1, The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company, 1885), 60.

Wow. I wonder just how young the bishop Ignatius is demanding all submit to, actually was? I'm not so sure about the way Ignatius used or applied the scriptures concerning very young prophets or kings. We know from history that later on, many obtained high offices within the church by purchasing the positions, or other fraudulent or unbiblical means. Though we do not know anything about this case Ignatius is addressing. Nevertheless, Ignatius definitely inappropriately applied examples of disobedience to prophets and or kings in the older years of their lives, to his position concerning an apparently very young bishop. Thereby falsely supporting his request.

I would say Ignatius unbalanced and unbiblical views in relation to the exaltation of the Bishopric, is my main beef with his writings. As they unquestionably aided the attitude which led to the false position of a universal bishop above all others, between Christ and the rest of the church, and an unhealthy submissiveness of an ill invented laity to bishops as well. There is nothing wrong with being obedient to your bishop when their teachings and leadership are in line with biblical teaching and standards. There most certainly is something wrong with obeying or contradicting them in nothing though, when they are not. Duh!

[Amo]

CHAP. IV.—SOME WICKEDLY ACT INDEPENDENTLY OF THE BISHOP

It is fitting, then, not only to be called Christians, but to be so in reality. For it is not the being called so, but the being really so, that renders a man blessed. To those who indeed talk of the bishop, but do all things without him, will He who is the true and first Bishop, and the only High Priest by nature, declare, "Why call ye Me Lord, and do not the things which I say?" For such persons seem to me not possessed of a good conscience, but to be simply dissemblers and hypocrites.

Ignatius of Antioch, "The Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians," in The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, ed. Alexander Roberts, James Donaldson, and A. Cleveland Coxe, vol. 1, The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company, 1885), 61.

Ignatius again, suggesting that doing things without the bishop and or his knowledge I reckon, is the equivalent of disobeying our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.